Goes Without Saying - Loneliness Bad Friends Its Not Me Its You

Episode Date: January 11, 2026

podmothers sephy & wing enter the chat: spiralling on lucy sheridan (the world's first comparison coach), resentment and conflict, losing touch, catching up, and finding real connection in your 20s. ✷ see more ✷ youtube @sephyandwing ✷ instagram @sephyandwing ✷ tiktok @sephyandwingshop ✷ www.sephyandwing.co.uk

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Goes Without Saying, you're listening to Goes Without Saying with Seffi and Wing. I'm Seffi. And I'm Wing. And I've loved this episode so much. We're talking about friendship breakups. So hold your friends close. We're talking about boundaries, communication, the sad thing when you just realize you're no longer compatible with people, what to look for in friendships, especially in your late 20s or when you're reaching a stage of life where you just think,

I don't have a fucking time for this. So I hope you enjoy it. Welcome back. We're pre-recording. We're getting ahead of the game. Which feels so like the fucking right thing to do. It is, isn't it? But if you've said something in the past week that we haven't addressed, that's why.

We're coming to you from the past. Very much the past. How is it out there? To you from about 10 minutes in between the last episode and now. And since then. Yes. Oh, my God. So much has happened.

Just in this past. week yeah god if you heard last week we were saying about a certain someone that i stalked yeah um someone from my past that i stalked and saw that they had a new girlfriend and it was like okay oh my god and i was like wing let me i'm gonna show you the photo blah blah blah that i had discussed in the previous ab went to go find it gone kap kaput lot can happen in a 10 minute break god who i mean in that time yeah revelation after moments yeah i know wow um i'm excited for this one this was actually something that someone sent in on instagram i just almost feel like i haven't thought about it in this specific way yeah um

and again classically and a classic kind of goes without saying way it is the sort of thing that everyone experiences in some sort of way but it's just not talked about enough it feels like as soon as you read it out it's like okay there are definitely things on the mind like immediately it's like okay there are definitely things to talk about here yeah like it feels like a kind of I know that the late 20s almost are a point it's a point where people start thinking maybe like a little bit more critically about what they want their life to look like and who's like good for them bad for them who you want surrounding you like what is influencing influencing you yeah I almost hadn't necessarily thought of it before but I do think it's super I kind of

of it elephant yeah i keep thinking of it in the way of almost like and it is this is this is oh jesus i've forgotten her name what is it what's her name prepared to diamond lucy sheridan i was going to say sheridan but like is that right so i giggle lucy sheridan we all know she's the world's first comparison coach it is lucy sheridan it must be we know her slogan we don't know her name let's yeah she is comparison coach comes up immediately she's the only one literally the one and only one of one Lucy Sheridan the world's first comparison coach um who by the way is just someone we found on it's just a woman that we saw them back in like 2021

she doesn't know who we are we just saw on instagram ones far from but she was saying good things there were some good insights there and one thing that she spoke about was the idea of ebbing and flowing in relationships and she called it diamond so almost like a diamond has a point comes out comes back in she was saying in your relationships prepare to diamond, you're going to ebb, you're going to flow, you're going to come back in, you're going to come back out. Yeah. And I do think something I'm thinking about is almost just, it sounds so deep.

And I think some of these things sound so weighty. And often it is really, really weighty in the sense that it could be like really gutter, really heartbreaking when you're in some sort of, for example, a breakup with a friend is huge. But it can also be something that just feels like a natural reflection of someone where you are growing alongside you or maybe growing apart for a while. And I have so many friends where like we weren't friends were like two years. And not because anything happened. Yeah.

But like we just were living kind of separately for a moment and then found our way back. Those ones feel nice. Lovely. Those ones feel so fucking nice. Like one of my oldest friends, Emily, we weren't friends for like, there was like probably a four or five year period between like like fucking 18 and 23 where we like just didn't really speak. But Jesus Christ, she's been my friend throughout the whole of like literally nursery school, school, like primary school, secondary school, didn't speak at all at uni. Now we're besties again.

It's so fucking nice. And that felt very natural. But then there are the ones that don't feel so naturally ebbing on flowing, diamonding, whatever the fuck, Lucy Sheridan, Queen World's First Cocharder wants to call it. Yeah. Like there are ones that feel like, okay, we're in different places. And that is not something I forso. or like I wanted us to be the close bit of the diamond forever.

It's forever. Yeah. I didn't see that. It's sad that we're in different places. I didn't account for room for friction in my plan for us. In my plan. Yeah. That's horrible.

I foresaw. I did not foresee. No, I did not foresee. But sometimes conflict just comes and it is sometimes it's not, yeah, like a natural drift. It's like a friction tug apart. that feels kind of grim and like against the tide almost like it's not a natural um okay so all friendships have seasons and like now we're close and now we're not and all of that it feels like oh why are we not seeing eye to eye on this that does and i don't really necessarily there are

explanations there but um they don't always feel like the ones that you want maybe because sometimes the horrible truth is that people that were compatible are not always compatible, and that is a hard pill to swallow. Yeah, I think it's true. So I would like to know, so what are some things at this present moment that you feel like you, not even look for, but like at the bottom line you require from a friend? Because I think I have one. Go on. I don't know how to put words to it, though. Okay, okay. Do you want to do an interpretive dance? Yeah, there's something here. Yeah.

I think I require a sense of like being able to meet each other where we're at. Like I don't need a certain version of you. You don't need a certain version of me. We're open to where each other are at and there's like an honesty. Yeah. Yeah. There's like something about I can be authentically myself and that doesn't bother you and you can be completely who you are and that's not going to bother me.

Yeah, I need something. I need it to be honest. I need to be able to know that like, I think there's a certain level of trust there as well in the sense that I don't want to, I want to feel, I guess it's like almost like a level of safety. Like I have friendships where I felt, looking back now, I would put the word unsafe on it.

Like almost who I was was in some way I had to censor that or dilute it or change it to give them what they wanted from me. I wasn't safe to be who I was just there. unfiltered. Yeah, unfiltered or like... Yeah. And that's not saying that that's someone else's responsibility solely to make me feel safe. It's also about me, for whatever reason, feeling like I had to be a certain thing and not vocalising that I felt unsafe or whatever.

Do you know what I mean? There's a shared thing. Yeah, but it is also within a friendship, I think there should be a level of ease there. Yeah, I agree. If you feel on guard around someone, on eggshells, often, often, it is a reflection of, like, how you feel around that person. If you're noticing, like, a massive discrepancy around, like, how you feel around different people. I think that's something. There's one thing, there's a, there's a scenario that I'm thinking of where I've been, the words I'm using at the moment is, like, they just didn't like me and that's okay.

Yeah. Like, maybe they thought they could like me or they liked me in a specific me. But ultimately, like, when they're met with actually who I am and like what it entails to know me, they didn't like that and they didn't want to be friends with that and that's all right. Oh, God. That's fucking tough. Do you know what? You think?

Like, okay, situation I'm in, if you think of me, a situation in my life where there is somebody that I don't like and I can tell they don't like me. We are incompatible. We're incompatible. We were discussing this earlier if you recall this. We're just completely opposite people. Yeah. Yeah.

Doesn't hurt because I don't like the person back. When it does hurt is when you do like someone and you're like, I think we'd be good friends and they don't like you. That fucking kills. Like I do think the level of, um, it's not insulting when someone doesn't that you don't like doesn't like you that's actually a compliment that's a good time very nice don't like you thank god we're just like god if they liked me fucking hell i'm doing something wrong attracting the wrong people at the bare minimum yeah it's like okay i've made a stand for something that i obviously believe in that is integral to who i am yeah that has to be good

doesn't but that is it doesn't feel nice when it's like oh god okay no no it's tough and i also think If there's a history of friendship there, that's when it becomes really painful. Like this thing that I'm speaking about is like, no, there's a long history there of friendship. But there are many reasons why right now it's not working. And I don't know if it could ever work or whatever. But there's something like so specific about a friendship dissolving because I know everyone speaks about this, I guess. This is like maybe over said. but the difference between a romantic breakup and a friendship breakup or like even yeah it's completely different

it is completely different i almost think like if i were to break up with my boyfriend now and i was about and i'm like going into the office where i'm booking time off work but if me and you were to have it well it's different i guess we work together but if if me and my close friend had a big breakup you're not allowed to take time off work for some reason no you don't get any support if it's your boyfriend everyone's what, going to send you flowers and shit. If it's your friend, it's like, oh, God, what did you do wrong, essentially? Or, like, you don't get any... Also, also, this is kind of, maybe just like a trauma response from me.

Yeah. But, like, I do expect all relationships really to end. I do expect... I'm very pleasantly surprised when they don't. I literally want more proof that they don't. Yeah. I would love, love, love to see it. I don't see that that often.

In romantic relationships or friendships too. Romantic. All friendships last. These are my beliefs. All friendships last. All romantic things die. Horrible. Please prove me wrong.

Yeah. Please. I expect, I'm also specifically talking about myself. Like, I'm not necessarily telling you listener that your boyfriend and you are not going to last. I'm not saying that. But I'm kind of saying. She kind of is. I'm not saying that.

I'm just sort of saying. No, but I kind of am. Like, I think all, I, I, mine isn't unique to me. I think all relationships are doomed in my core belief. I know in my right mind that that obviously isn't the case, but my core belief from things that I saw as a child and the things that I learned really, really early on is, yeah, relationships in romance are doomed. Me too.

Me too. And then also at the same time that the things that get you through that are your friends and those are the most valuable things that you can have is like a strong network of people around you. So there are some nice truths there to draw from. Definitely. But it also means that causes problems in romantic things because you're thinking everything is doomed and done for.

And also causes a problem when a friendship ends because that it's like when a relationship ends, yeah, that's just following its natural trajectory of how a relationship should go. Nice for a bit, then it ends. Whereas a friendship, when that is not going right. It's like, wait, what the fuck?

These things don't need to do that. There's no, they don't need to be binary on and off like a relationship. They can be in the background for a bit. They can be, you can be far away from them for a bit. It doesn't matter. You can have multiple friends. So when a friendship ends, it feels quite like unnatural, weird and like really sad, I think. Yes.

Yeah. for you or just in everyone that's like i think i think i do think that maybe i almost just think that just is that it's like friendships maybe are just like harder to swallow or like make less sense when they end because it feels less natural yeah you can that it's not this thing with a relationship where it's like we are making a conscious decision to enter into this like one-on-one thing together until it ends and then we'll have nothing to do with each other essentially friendships feel way more fluid that it's like you just sort of pick people up along the way that you love and they like feed into this like always going to stay yeah this like ecosystem of like truly like support and love and there's no like um it's a nice idea

there's no like transactional thing within it it's not like you're my one person and this is us till the fucking end or whatever you'd made no deals with them so it just feels like maybe that there should be no reason for it to end or it shows that something really has gone wrong if it does end because it really does mean you're incompatible or something has happened. Right now. At that point something's happened. Yeah. Which I think is that is the part where if there's no, that is a natural occurrence of life,

it just is. It's not necessarily like, oh, that happens 100% of the time. Yeah. But there has to be some sort of room for people to have conflict and break apart in friendships. That's just how it. Definitely. Is, ooh.

It's horrible. Yeah. It's horrible. But it, it, It happens and I think, oh my God, it makes me think of Little Mix. I watched little bits of Jade talking about Jessie, which Jessie was the one who left. Yeah, yeah.

It's like a girl group in the UK. God, if you don't know Little Mix, surely everyone knows that. Well, underrated, I think. Well, Jade's having her moment. She's having a moment. And as she should, she's worked hard. For sure. Anyway, she was saying about Jessie,

and almost just the awareness of being in that group. the history foretells that girls together in a group are going to break up, there's going to be horrible, you know, the friendship can't last. And I remember she said, I think, to Louis Theroux about how difficult it was for her to accept that, like, almost she just never saw that happening. She always thought we could be better than that. We could fight that. We could not let that happen to us.

And sometimes even the best intentions, even like the best intentions, even like the biggest awareness of like i don't want this to break up is not enough sometimes sometimes like life really i mean you're two individual people or like in little mix you're a group of individuals or you're always going to be individuals and that means that you are going to grow in lots of different ways and and you're going to fuck up in lots of different ways and maybe some things you just can't talk your way out of you can't always patch things up you can't always get it back to a place where that friendship can continue. Yeah.

Hurts. Yikes. Because there isn't a lot of room for that. No. And again, yeah, you don't get to then book the week off work. You don't get the rallying around you. It is just purely a sad thing on your own. I mean, a week off work is maybe me being a little bit and I just don't want to work, it seems.

Well, a week off work. What office? I'll put it out there. But like, that would take. It's a hard, yeah, it's gross. What would be the thing that you would say you require in friendship then at this point? Well, my response in my mind when you asked initially is way like almost more shallow, I think. Because almost like I was thinking on like tears of friendship and like in our thing of like the captor C kind of those things.

I think like yes, I would agree for the like A star, like inner inner inner circle. Yeah. It's a different thing than the outside. What were you going to say? You want them to be funny? No, I was going to say I... That was the shallow one. For just like acquaintances, like a slightly like outer ring.

Casual friend, yeah. Would be like pace, I think is a real thing that like I've really realized that I can't deal with is like a real slowness of pace in conversation. Ah, okay, okay. Like what? In conversation? In conversation, like literally in conversation, it's so specific, but I've really realized it as like a bugging thing for me of almost like if a conversation feels really like stunted and slow and it just isn't like this, I just almost feel like we're not, there's no like chemistry. It's fair enough, but I'm just so shocked because this is the girl that I have to beg to listen to my voice notes on two times speed or even 1.5. And every time you say, no, no, I'm indulging.

I want to savor your voice note. savor these crazy things when I take my time in a voice note you can imagine guys I'm talking six seven minutes sometimes yeah and I want to enjoy those six seven minutes I'm not saying everyone needs to speak like chipmunks speed it up I'm not saying that at all but no I know I'm just making a joke so okay so you can be I think it's like it's basically like a branch of funniness but I think what I've noticed with like all of the people that I really feel like I click with is yeah There's just like, maybe it's like a wittiness. There's just like something quick about them all.

It's not, like, things very naturally come to them. I like that. But that would just be like. That's for the outside. That's like, yes. Do I like you or not? That's kind of layer one of the, of the, of your into the.

You've got into the club now. How do you stay? How do you get into the DJ? I think. But also like, what a horrible thing to say. Is it? I don't know. What you have a good conversation with someone, bare minimum.

Yeah, maybe. I don't know. But yes, I think it's, I need to know who the fuck you are. It's like the main thing. I need to know who you are. And like, I need to like let you know who I am, like on a real level. And like for all of that to be okay. Do you think there's something as well about like the more good friendships you have,

the more, this is so, I can't even believe I'm. If you ever catch yourself in the middle of a sentence and think, stop that. Yes. That's like the whole... I literally feel like that is the experience. These two episodes have been like, what are some of the things I'm saying? There's just something about the more... I guess it's just like when you see how good things can be,

it becomes very easy to look in other areas, just shift the lens onto other areas where things aren't as good. And I guess that was. works in all areas of life and sometimes I think it's difficult to know I love the phrase grass is greener and people saying the grass is greener where you tend the gardens Yeah yeah yeah

The grass isn't always necessarily like it's very easy to look around and think Yeah Let me throw this away just so I can have something else Yeah yeah exciting for the moment blah blah blah Yeah There is a tending of the garden But I think there's something Almost like sometimes you experience something

with someone that allows you to put other things into perspective, like you have a nice, honest interaction with someone and it makes you think, huh, maybe I wasn't asking for too much in that previous situation, or I wasn't necessarily being weird by having whatever standard with my friend in that relationship with them. Do you know what I mean? Definitely.

Also, because that is the whole thing. Like, it's so classic of people being, like, romantic relationships need work. like they're a work in progress all of this stuff and it's like almost there is kind of i just fed into it like i need this pace of people it's like this idea that you like naturally click with people and it's just like perfect forever like they do take work they do take um like we were talking a bit before about like communication being like one of the primary pillars of it basically the main foundation of a friendship if you are not communicating in some form yeah is that a Is that a friendship?

I don't see that that would last very long. And then almost as soon as that starts crumbling, your days are numbered. Well, that's the thing. Yeah. As soon as that honest line of communication goes, you are truly at the mercy of whatever kind of whims the mind can take. And especially sometimes, like, in this, I mean, climate, it's very easy for the mind to go to quite sour zones.

Yeah. It seems. And that's why in COVID so many people's friendships, like Jesus Christ, Like, Little mix, they said. Did they break up in COVID? I think she said, I think Jade says in that interview, something about like not being able to see each other in COVID

meant that all of their kind of routines of like, let's just debrief on this big thing. That kind of fell apart. And it meant that there was, yeah, more room for the resentment and like, weirdness to sort of grow. Yeah. I definitely had like, like, the biggest friendship thing ever in my life was during COVID that I had with like one of my best friends and thank fuck we got through it but that was

definitely the biggest like almost just like fall out I guess like I don't know how to put that into fucking words just like this clash of viewpoints narratives narratives about it was about what we should be doing and all of this it was just basically a complete lack of communication that it'd been building for so long actually when like to look back on it it's so clear when that started and like it's unsurprising that it got to the level that it did yeah but it was just culminating in like one of those fucking long like three hour phone calls just like screaming and crying at each other and like a few days later we did manage to fix it but fucking hell like COVID did not help helped us loads because we spoke for about eight hours every single fucking day of that pandemic

but did not help that friendship in particular. No. But then also the reconciliation, it requires, like we've been saying, the two of you to be able to, it requires work from both parts. It requires. Yeah, it does. And I always say this about my romantic relationship is if there's ever a problem, it's never me versus you.

It's me and you versus the problem. Yeah. Like an issue has come up and we are solving it. on one team and the issue is over there and we're both going to come in and attack that issue and solve that rather than something has come up fuck you yeah literally yeah because the minute you lose that I'm on your team you're on mine it's a shared it's of competition at that point love yeah or just like the minute you lose the trust I think yeah and like the honesty it is it's all for the taking and like

the shared vision and like it's so easy in an argument to prioritize i want to get my point across i think i'm right i think i've been wronged in some way and i want you to suffer to see it and and to apologize for the thing which is fair so fair i think there has to be room for emotions and stuff but i think if you can yeah have that moment of zooming out and think i'm currently feeling highly emotional that's probably going to affect my actions. Let's pick this back up in 10 minutes or two weeks even depending on what the relationship is in the circumstance because I think not everything has to be permanent

no not everything needs to be a big permanent decision and sometimes like if something is said it can't be unsaid you can't unhear a certain thing you can't like no matter how much work you can make this really tough for yourself sort of thing in a certain sort of conflict it can if you know the more shit you add on, the harder it is to get, brush all the shit off and get back to the diamond in the run. And also remember the purpose of the argument.

Like if the purpose of the argument is to prove that you're right, then probably not a valid argument. But if the purpose of the argument is to come to a mutual understanding with someone, yeah, as a team against the issue of like, we've got a joint goal here. And like, honestly, I mean, we do this all the time, but like, fucking labour the point sometimes of like it would be I could imagine if we ever had a

disagreement we could be we would be like what are we trying to get to here like we're coming to this to sort of so because we love each other and we're trying to like get to a point of understanding blah blah blah blah and I sometimes think that is so worth spelling out before an argument of being like why are we doing this like what are we trying to do here and then it kind of creates the fucking space for someone in this like it's so like overly therapist like I can literally hear or like married at first sight and me being like oh why are they doing that but it is actually like important to be like why are we what are we trying to get through to like what's the other side of this thing yeah because if it's just like oh yeah now you agree that i'm right probably don't do

that write that in your journal also sometimes i think we i was thinking this even earlier even in the past we've recorded two days in a row now sometimes i think we laboured the point because there's an awareness of sometimes the words are out of your mouth before you've even thought that thought about it and i might say to you how's it going today what's up and it's like yeah nothing really and then an hour later it's like oh we now we've got to oh i was feeling a bit anxious about recording because of blah blah and i didn't even know it wasn't i lied i just didn't even know myself hadn't addressed that in myself yet to be able to give it to you do not i mean 100 that's because we're so out of touch with our bodies

actually feel. I think it's literally, it's the same fucking thing of like learning how anger feels, how sadness feels, how anxiety feels. We don't fucking know. We have these like abstract words that again, we attach to thoughts, not fucking what it is. It's like when you, it's like, yeah, it's so fucking impossible to be like, I'm feeling. How are you today?

Oh yeah, I'm good. Because you've just come from doing a million things. You haven't even acknowledged that your heart is being fast. You don't even know. Later it comes around because you burst into tears usually. me, nice. Which is great sometimes. But it's so inconvenient.

It's not ideal, yeah. Or like this could have been managed five hours ago with just like five minutes of silence and a cup of tea. And now it's like crying about kind of, you know, someone or something. Going, I don't even know why I'm crying. I think I have to take it to these lengths maybe. But there was something here building and whatever.

But I do think there's, I think it's even like ice. I go like, or I'll go like, or I've got like, all the time. Yeah. Because you need that physical... Yeah. It's a toddler screaming in the aisle in Tesco. Like there's a physical release happening here that you've learned to abandon.

You've learned to stop doing that. But it's essential. Yeah. And I was saying to my therapist the other day that I feel like because I'm really aware of my thoughts at the moment, like I'm very good at being able to zoom out because I've just been mentally going... in and like off the back of being really not good i feel like not having the um muck of my thoughts turning into i must believe that and that must be my feeling and just basically not having the

extra layer of being hard on myself or hating myself yeah is making it so much easier to see how i feel it's taking away everything it's taking away all the layers of like shit and just being like, oh, I just got like a random burst of anger and that is all it is. And it's not about I got a random burst of anger and fuck that person. Which means I'm an angry person. I'm a fucking home. And everything is useless. Yeah.

Almost like, yeah. I don't know. I think that's it, not taking it so personally. Because so much of it can feed into the narrative of like, for example, in our last episode, even the idea that you can admit that you felt jealous means that you are. a jealous person that has issues with jealousy. Like, no, no, no, no. It doesn't mean that.

It could, but... But it's just like, we take everything so fucking personally. Like, actually, you can feel angry without being someone with anger issues. Andy Bernard punching the wall going to anger management. You don't need to... Like, it's not... Not everything is so fucking personal. And also, I think, like, I've been thinking about anger issues recently

because I think anger is a weird one for me. It's not where I naturally... go but I think so much of it is and I think this is obviously especially true for women of like the masking that you learn from like a baby essentially

yeah like for so many different groups of people and in so many different ways but there's just so much pulling you away from how you feel yeah I don't know I know that sounds really that's so interesting no it makes perfect sense it's just so interesting because I feel the opposite in that I I naturally go to anger because I feel anger so much easier to deal with than sadness that like if something bad happens I find it so much easier to be like angry at the situation than admit that it's sad and I often feel that like so I'm trying to like soften as a person and like get way more in touch with the fact of like when I feel myself getting like it's kind of like an anxiety and an anger like it all kind of kind of.

builds up in like a stressful moment trying to be like I actually like what's at the bottom of it like what's the true thing is actually just like a very basic sadness that I'm like masking with the anger yeah which I so yes I feel like anger is a very true emotion but for me that was like the mask of what I truly feel totally because I think we just learn and in lots of different ways whether it's like, for whatever reason, for whatever person, you learn what is best suited for your environment, what's going to help you survive, what's safe. And then I think as you get older,

maybe like as a teenager, it's like what's most palatable. Yeah. I mean, I think by the time you're a teenager, your instincts are there and it's set and you're, you know, you're cooked. Yeah, yeah, yeah. She's perfect,

get comfortable. You better settle into this. You know, I think so much of this is learned, like by the time you're, I mean like seven or eight. Yeah. I know that by that time I had learned that like, I'd learned the emotions that were appropriate and that would serve me

and would help me survive or help keep people around me happy. And I'd learned that there were some emotions that did not fit into that. So you bury them, turn them into something else. Pretend they don't exist even. Yeah, literally. Sorry, friendship. Friendship breakup. Guys.

Why did you let us do that? Why are we here? What fuck did we just go? I mean, I loved every second. No, same. I'm so on board. Well, maybe it's because it's like they are highly emotional. Totally emotional.

They're not, not emotional. We're not allowing ourselves to be honest with ourselves, let alone in our relationships. That was what it was. Nice. Which is true. Yeah. It is completely true.

And if I think about like relationships, it becomes very obvious as well when you look back, like retroactively it's really easy to see in certain relationships. Like, for example, in the one that I spoke about earlier, it's like okay you just unfortunately right now you don't like me and like i'm you know i'm rubbing you the wrong way that's a shame because i'm trying my hardest but whatever yeah um it you can see really clearly what the things like being able to look back and be like oh well COVID probably didn't help yeah a certain thing you know whatever like it becomes easy looking back past the point

okay that was a moment where i chose to let that resentment build or that was a moment where i saw something and i thought can't bother to address it right now Yeah, and I think that... It's weighing it up in the moment. Do you want to address this right now? Because, you know, what's the risk here? Also, I think as you get older, the time you get with your friends gets shorter. Like it gets much smaller and your friendship gets condensed to, I hate this, obviously, catch-ups.

Let's go catch up, let's go catch up. Oh, we haven't seen each other in ages. It's been too long. Let's catch up. We're not friends. That's not friends. friends. Yeah.

Well, just like, that's alarm bells ringing to me. Like, if, if someone that is one of my best friends, I am now catching up with, things need to, the balance needs to get restored here. Yeah. So then, say you're seeing one of your best friends, someone you went to school with or uni with or worked with or something, someone you saw all the time, you would have so much time. Like, every day new annoyances or new little things are happening and you can address them.

as and when during the thing you can have a fallout one week, you see them the next day, whatever the fuck. Yeah. In adult life, say you see that friend seven times a year, maybe. You see them for two hours. Yeah, it doesn't lend itself to friendship. Yeah, you're seeing them at lunch for two hours or something. They might say something that's annoying. It might say one thing that annoys you.

The next time you see them, you could have created a whole fucking new narrative. by the time you see them. The whole thing has happened in your head. You've spoken about to other people. Oh, my God, blah, blah, blah. You've got it's up into a right state. But those two hours that you see them are not enough time to address the thing that happened the last time.

Because it's like, fuck, I'm going to spoil the lunch the time I've allotted to see my friends. Then before you know it, you're not seeing them seven times a year. You're seeing them twice a year. Then you're seeing them once every two years. Then you're not seeing them at all. Communication is everything. It is. Because also sometimes that dwindling is natural and it's not the cause of the cause of

those kind of rifts popping up. It's just, you know, whatever. Life. Yeah, it's just life. And we feel good about it. Yeah, that's fine. We feel pleasant about where we're at. Whereas, yeah, for some circumstances, it's like something came up, wasn't addressed,

one hit. Then cumulative, it compounds into two things were addressed, Halley. Next. Next time I see you, don't address any of it. Nothing new happens, but still don't feel great. And then, yeah, I never see you again. Yeah. And then we're done. Yeah. Mm. All because there is not enough time.

to bring it up really, which is because friendships are not really like, they just fall so low down the agenda sometimes, which is actually so fucking shit. Like, just in the society we live in, it's like, work takes up the fucking bulk by like 90%. And then like, in the 10% that's left, it's like, okay, so your family, your relationship, yourself, and then you have a time for a few friends. That is not right. That is not fucking right. no wonder there's like the lack of communication is that like you just don't have the fucking energy all the time to actually give it the like effort that it deserves when actually I think

friends make up so much of like the happiness in life like there is so Jesus Christ they are so fucking important and if you don't think they are what's going on what's going on you're lost like they're so fucking important so I think the amount of like time we give them is like actually an insult to don't make me say a ridiculous sentence. It's an insult to love. On game day, pain can hit hard and fast. Like the headache you get when your favorite team

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of the NFL. your pharmacist at this product's rate for you. Always read and follow the label. It's an insult to love. Love and Life. Literally. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Yeah. There are a little because I think there might... I think I was thinking just in terms of you talking about your, um, situation, um, with your friend. My unnamed or my foe now. Your foe. I'm joking. I'm joking. I'm not my foe. Just someone. Not a foe. Not a foe, just a person. I would love, um, foe. I know you do say it far, but I'm, going to say foe.

I'd love any foe. I'd love. I'd love to open the drawbridge to a big bowl of foe right now. Yes. So good. That's quite a good. Something. Friend and foe.

It's like a photo of, if you pronounce foe like that, foe, foe, friend and foe. You know like friend or foe. That would be cool. It would be like, you know, you were the bowl of foe. They should do that. It's offensive. Anyway, go on. Jesus Christ.

That was just a draft for an Instagram caption. Feel free to use it if you ever take a friend to have a nice, you know. But I just feel like such a dick. It sounds like someone being like, I went on my gap here to Barcelona. That's what it feels like to me. The context. Okay, go on. You want to ask something about my phone.

You describing that situation as, because obviously I know the full context of this, as this person not liking you. that just feels so like their behaviour like their behaviour is out of fucking line like not to suddenly be like come in literally with my anger issues but like yeah it's not as simple as like you've been yourself and they've decided they don't like you it's like no how they are acting is actually really unfair it's not as simple as that yes there's a lot more there's a lot more that we could you know there's a lot more to that situation but I think in a sense an aspect of it that I think I hadn't thought about as much at the time or something that I

think is maybe a part of why I don't think it can be there are aspects of it that I don't think can be worked on yeah despite my you know previous efforts to have worked on it yeah there's something about I don't know if it is a lack of compatibility but I think it's the something I am doing is not right and you can't even acknowledge you don't even have the vocabulary to begin to understand why like you don't know what it is about me you don't know even what to ask of me for next time you don't know how to vocalize what it is that I've done because it's not about you maybe maybe definitely it's like it's so like clearly not about well also you know your but you only know me you only have my yeah my my screenshots and whatever

So one of the tricky things about friends, like, it is so tricky because it's like, I don't know. I always think about that in terms of like when I like ask you for advice and things like that. I'm like, but I'm giving such a specific narrative of things. Yeah. But I think you've just got to trust your own view of things. You can only say things from your perspective. And I think you've just got to try and be as fair as possible with that. And I believe that you have enough awareness of the situation that I trust your perspective.

So do I. Like, yeah. Which is why I think, you know, there's a part of it that is just like, I don't know, it's obviously, it's a weird one, that specific one, because it is very deep. But also there's a, there's a part of it that in coming to terms with it, and maybe I saw it, I forsaw it. Maybe it was, you know, there's a, there's a pattern as well, which I think makes it easier to it. It's almost like, okay, you, you, something's happened. Hit me once, fine. Hit me twice. Mm, didn't love it.

Third time. me fifth time around i start thinking maybe i was prepared for this and i kind of i can see that i by the sixth time it's boring to be honest i tried different things and none of them worked for you and we tried to address it multiple times it still didn't work some some part of that must be i must not be for you i must represent something that makes you uncomfortable you might want something from me that i cannot seem to give you but does it not go beyond that of just like she might not be right for you as well like Maybe. No, no, in a lot of ways, yeah. Regardless, regardless of the views, like, regardless of her views, it's almost like, you do, you are in, you are worth being, like, almost like, you do deserve someone that doesn't treat you.

Sure, which is why it's kind of easy to, yeah, it's why it's easy to kind of see or to come to terms with, I guess, because there's a huge part of it that is if I allow myself to be honest with what I also feel and want, I can see that this isn't fair for me and it's not what, you know, like um there are just there are two there are two i i have feelings too i have yeah like you've also been a con like that's just how things go like yeah i don't know but do prepare to diamond like i do truly think it's like it really is like i have gone to quite far points with friends before where i thought are not recoverable point of no return i thought like okay that's a done fucking deal there yeah and jesus christ i know i know like I've been brought right back in like all it might take is the both of us liking the same photo of Seth Rogen on Instagram and all of us I'm in your DM saying

what you're doing on Friday let's go get a coffee I want to talk about something do you know what I mean we might find ourselves in a similar spot who knows time and honestly I think an apology is an underrated fucking thing like genuinely the shit that people have done in life and the shit I have done as well and the power of literally genuinely a powerful word. If someone says sorry to me, I genuinely feel no, the way things just fucking dissolve

of just like, it's so okay. Often like all the resentment is just the lack of that word. I think it's the lack of feeling seen for your frustration. Like all you needed was for them to acknowledge how you felt. And then all of a sudden it's like,

oh, it kind of feels easier now because I just wanted you to see what you did. I wanted you to understand how that made me feel. Because I don't mind. In fact, I expect and actually kind of encourage people to do shitty things. Like, I think that is sort of part of any relationship, like a friendship included. I do think it's really important for people to be able to make mistakes.

And especially, like, fucking half of my friends I've known since I was zero years old. So it's like, look, okay, I've known you for what, 28 years now. Of course, people are people. Like, we make mistakes. That's what we do? What did you think a 24-year-old girl was going to act like? Literally. She's mental.

That's what we fucking do. I don't care actually about necessarily what people have actually done. I think it's more about the reflection on the things and then going forward from that. It's not the fight itself. It's the resolve it. It's not the conflict. It's the communication after. Genuinely.

But yeah, I mean, it's like if you plan on living until you're like 70, 80, 90 and you're 25 now and you're planning on saying in like the same country or, right? you're going to have a phone with you you're good these people are going to come back and you know you're going to want them back maybe one day and things will be different do you think it's worse yeah lucy sheridan worlds first i really really really do think like it friendships are what are one of the main things to like invest in in life like invest your time and energy and like even just like small things like um i don't know like making things for your friends and like making sure like on their birthday you just send them a card and you're you just send them a card and you

know, all of the staff. I've been thinking of something irrelevant, really. Well, it's relevant, it's not that interesting. I've just been thinking about how much of friendship is actually really romantic. It is. And, like, it's about kind of, I see you, and I'm, and I, here's, you know, a romantic gesture. There's so much of it that is like, there's so much of it that is, like, you're romancing people, serenading them and, like, do you know what I mean?

No, completely, because as I said at the beginning, my belief, which I mean it in a bleak way and I also mean it in a real way. The chances are your friendships are going to outlive most of your romantic relationships. Yeah. Yet the waiting goes so far the other way. And how many times, God, God, how many times have we seen this, all of us, where your friend gets into a relationship, disappears, then emerges from it again. Yeah.

Wanting to be accepted right back where they were. You might do it a few times. it starts getting a bit like things have moved like things have changed since I last saw you sort of thing and I think one of the main lessons especially for women like so fucking important the network that you create outside of your romantic relationship is so much of your power like there is so much there for you I even think outside of romantic relationships I think outside of yourself, like being able to maintain the skill, I think, of being able to maintain friendships is so, it will do you so many favours.

It's actually crucial. In terms of having that direct line of honest communication, those friendships, that is something to invest in and like something to protect and something to, yeah, like, and also to allow to serve you because I always think as well like I feel very lucky to have really good friendships and I feel like what they help most with is my sense of I feel like I remember there was a there was a point maybe a couple of years ago I was talking about like allowing people to like help me or like feeling like like being honest with friends and stuff like that as soon as friends give you a sort of love it kind of leaves that thing of like okay now the last thing is myself yeah yeah

I don't know if that is going to really hit for anybody else on the planet other than myself, but selfishly, that's how I feel. It's almost like I can get all of the love from my friends and everyone around me, and it just reinforces that I need to give it to myself. Totally. Ultimately, if that makes sense. Because I kind of think, yeah, God, I mean, whatever happens in your life, your friends being there for you is one thing and it's amazing and whatever.

But, like, are you still not there for yourself? Yeah. That's a shame. Also, I think it's, I mean. one of those things about like I objectively trust my friends like I've curated a somehow collected all the like these people when you don't trust them there's been not right yeah it's almost like there are barriers to entry here of like I trust these I view these people are smart important clever funny empathetic kind all of the shit they're like a they're super trustworthy

people in my mind if they love you and you don't love yourself what are you spitting in their faces it's fucking insult to them right okay got to go it's insulting to them like almost if i was insulting insulting insult insulting insult insulting to them it's insulting don't know what happened but it is insulting to them right that it's like if you what are you questioning their judgment yeah i like when you do that one i think it's true yeah no it is true i'm not trying to be funny to know i have but it's like it's true yeah it's true it's like it's the kind of thing if you were to shit on yourself as you often have you have done.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's almost like... So what you think I'm friends with some fucking loser? Yeah. Obviously not. No, no, but it is. Why it's important, I don't know, friends view you objectively and I think that's important.

And that's why I think the ebbing and flowing, the prepared to diamond and the cutting loose and the trimming off the kind of, you know, scraps of like, you know, some things just don't fit. And I do think it's, I think it's advisable. To get to a point, for example, like in your late 20s, 30s, whatever, where you can look around and feel good about the people around you and not like they secretly hate you or they make you feel bad about who you are or you don't feel, for example, safe in the friendship or any of that sort of stuff.

And that you've been quite discerning maybe in like, you don't need to accept every friendship. I don't think you should. I think you really shouldn't actually. But then I almost feel like, I don't know, there's a, There's a bit of me that feels mean about it. But then I also think like... No, because... No, like, people...

Not everyone gets access. Not everyone gets to be a friend. You're doing them the favour by not being then a... Doing something that doesn't work. Yeah. But you're going to be a friend out of pity to somebody or what? And also, like, one of the main lessons, Jesus Christ, one of the main lessons I've had in the last year

of, like, specifically doing my masters that I've been here. And like, it's a... Going from, like, living at home. with my mum and my brother where I barely saw anyone to suddenly being around like a huge new people hugely different amount of people

like your time is limited your energy is fucking limited you have to be discerning about who gets it because otherwise if you spread it thin and just speak to everyone and give everyone kind of what they ask for more is not merrier to I feel like that's something

maybe we haven't sung enough about is like you might do you know what It's funny because it's almost quite merry. It's got, oh, merry, mares. But it's true. Like, you might think that there's just more power in having a smaller group of people

that you actually contrast and actually like you rather than filling your zone with, like, furniture in the room. People who hate you, or people who you don't actually like, or it's not real, or it's just fluff. And, like, maybe that's fine for, you know, they have their time. and a place. It's obviously just not.

Your time is worth more than that. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Cool. Right. Hope everybody has enjoyed this. Yeah.

I have. I've enjoyed this. I think this is the, do you know what? This is the first moment where I feel like we've... You're back. Hit our stride a bit. Like, we definitely...

I'll listen back to the other ones and they'll be fine. But like, almost in my own feelings right now. I feel like this was good for the first time since being back. You know what that is as well? It's like you would have made one point that you think, I believe that. And that just... No, it will literally be down to. One breath that you've had to.

Yeah. Okay, I now have relaxed. It's not weird. It would be nothing. Which is our big lesson with recording of like... But it's three for three. How you feel and how the episode is are not related. They're very different.

They're not even in the same family. The making of said project is not the same as the outcome of the thing. I... Crazy lesson, but so fucking true. Okay. If you don't hear from us, assume the West.