Goes Without Saying - Lost Lonely Overthinker In Crisis

Episode Date: January 11, 2026

podmothers sephy & wing enter the chat: spiralling on contagious negative spirals, eating disorders, and mindsets, struggling with identity and direction, and developing a sense of self. ✷see more ��� youtube @sephyandwing ✷ instagram @sephyandwing ✷ tiktok @sephyandwingshop ✷ www.sephyandwing.co.uk

of like people's traits really do feed into you. So much. And this is why you need to be careful who's close to you. But there were people that I have had to cut out of my life because I was not in a position and I will never be in a position. No. I don't want to be in a position. I almost don't believe that other people can do things wrong.

I only think I can do something wrong. It's hard for me to really understand that other people could do something hurtful to me and I could be allowed to be upset by that. That's hard for me to ask because I'm trying to understand. like unpack it all and like be the smartest saddest girl in the room it's not helpful but often the spiral is a spiral you have to let it be but would we say any different no goes without saying you're listening to goes without saying with seffi and wing i'm seffi and i'm wing and this is an episode about how to know what you want we are refining our tastes who actually are

week. We talk a lot about certain traits that you might want to avoid, not avoid how the five closest people to you in your life are informing your behaviours and mindset. This is for you if you're feeling a little bit lost, like you don't know who you are, maybe want a little bit of clarity. It's kind of just a really nice episode really. So enjoy. See the exact same thing. All over again. Right. Hello. Hello. So we've sat down the last four days to record this. This is our fifth time. and it's going well oh guys it's been a week but you know we're having good time yeah i don't feel bad we just recorded like three minutes then wing was like what mic am i getting from you and i was like

ah you're getting my headphone mic meanwhile we were saying how bad my old mike was you know there's mercury retrograde is it yeah i think it well i don't know if it still is i think it's small bullshit for us to laugh to dive into can't wait yeah well i have noticed things have been a foot. Go on. Just things going wrong, like technical things. Well, Wings Microphone, do you remember how old busted microphone? Last two episodes?

Have you been hearing an underwater sounds from Wings Microphone? It sounded absolutely devastating, didn't it? Yeah. You know, just things going awry. Like what? I'd love to know. I can't really think of anything. Yeah, okay.

But just trust me, like, things are going on. It's weird times. I did have a bit of a weird moment. This has never happened to me. You would have absolutely hated it. But last night, it all, I will say, it all worked out. You know what, I will say, we didn't miss the trailers. I'll put it that way.

Oh my God, already, I'm stressed. Already I'm stressed. We live like five minutes from the cinema. Yeah. We were like, let's get food before. It'll be delicious. We went to this place. I'm going to pronounce it wrong and I don't actually even,

I wouldn't even know where to start with it. It's called like Shangee or something. like that. I don't know what this place is called because you know when you just see something all the time and you just think I don't need to know anything about you. Yeah. Well, I've never been there before.

Yeah. But I actually thought, power of TikTok, I saw someone eating noodles there. They looked really good. And they were also talking about the chef with such a loving kind of care. I thought, oh, you actually give a shit. So I'm going to eat your noodles. Yeah. So we went last night before the cinema.

Amazing. To see, I know what it is. To see, finally, 28 years later, someone finally got around to seeing 28 years later. In a packed cinema, I heard, I couldn't believe that... It was bloody Pat Gobour all worked. I couldn't believe it. I feel like I saw it, like, genuinely like a month ago. It probably was. Like, it was a long time ago. Probably was. I did go at 11am on the day it came out. Which is crazy. That is why. But still, somewhere in between. Yeah. Anyway, eating these noodles, having a delicious time, my boyfriend was like, what time is it? I looked at my phone. I was like, it was 8.15.

He was like, the film starts at 815. No, no. And I was like, no. But you're the keeper of time here, not me. Yeah, why have you done that? What a fuck up on your house. Sorry, he's not to hell.

Oh, God. But it was actually, it all worked out perfectly. Amazing. We made it and, like, made it so much that got to the cinema. I went to the toilet. I was taking my time. No, I have to go to the toilet. Even if I've just been, I need to go again.

Just clear it all out. Everything must be gone. And then I won't drink a sip. I won't eat or drink a sip in the film. That's never happened to me before. What time is it? It's the time that the film is starting. I know no one cares, but is that Mercury retrograde or is that just off being stupid?

I think it's Mercury. It feels a little bit mercurial. It does Mercurian. Did you see any trailers that you want to see? Because I might be going this evening. Oh, what are you going to see? Bring her back. Did you see that?

Oh, I keep. Right, so the trailer I saw in the cinema last night wasn't very good, but I keep getting a trailer on, like, YouTube that I do think looks good. Go on. Oh, you saw the bad trailer. I'm seeing two different trailers, yeah. It does look good, but I've heard really good. Like, the first 20 minutes is like really horrific and, like, difficult to watch.

Well, now you're talking. No, but that I don't like, I think maybe in a potentially like a bit of a torture, gore way. As long as it's not like a sexual assault, I'll be fine. I agree. There are a few things. I don't like anything. body horror. Like I don't like...

Oh yeah, you are a bit body, aren't you? I don't like it at all. Like, the new one would like Alison Brie... That's what I want to watch together. I don't, but there's a huge scandal about it. They've ripped it off from someone. So they will send this script. Alison Brie and what's his name?

Oh, bloody hell Dave Franco. You Franco boys. You silly goofs. What are you doing? Silly baby boys. Fuck. So they were sent a script of this film. I can't remember what it's called.

But the plot is two lovers getting sort of stuck together, metaphor for their codependence, the whole thing. They offered to produce it. And they said they didn't want to star in it, but we'll produce it. And they said, no. That film then comes out a few years later, producing, starring in this film, whatever it's called, where they're gluing together because they are so codependent. Oh, no.

I believe all of that is true. There could be some discrepancies in that retelling. but the crux is they've ripped it off. Fuck. Like it's kind of quite scandalous. They're being sued. I've only seen people talking about how hot they are in it, which shows outside of the internet I'm on. But okay, love it.

But kind of crazy. Yeah, no, that's nuts. Just almost it how, I don't know if that's true. But it is, I read it from a reputable source. Wow. Kind of crazy. I bet James is buzzing. It's like, finally, I'm not the bad guy.

Did they get on James? I don't know. I don't know. But I bet he's like, right, Christmas dinner at sight. Does anyone want to ask Dave any questions about what he's been up to now? Who's being sued? That's crazy. That's crazy.

That's my, I've got a real, I don't even want to put this out there because I do have a fear, but I've got a fear of like ending up in prison like Martha Stewart for like doing something kind of fraudulent or like bad. That I'm basically being too much of an idiot to do something correctly and like getting put in prison for it. Oh, yeah. Kind of a rough one. Just sort of share that with everybody. like you know I also would not like that no it wouldn't be not probably you're coming down with me as well so at least we'll be together it'll probably be me that says it probably that thing that I

just said they're like that none of that's true it's fine who knows who knows who knows it look I'm only just regurgitating what I saw but you can't hold a response I'll probably still see it yeah no I will I actually won't because I don't like anything about that oh yeah vibes I don't like anything about glueing I don't like anything about glueing I don't like I love gluing vibes. I used to love putting glue and peeling out. Yeah, I love those gluing vibes. That's amazing.

Okay, just checking. That's just like, it actually is kind of relevant to this episode of just like, knowing what you like, knowing what you don't like. Right. Just know I do not like. I've watched enough horror. I've watched more than enough horror. Yeah.

More, more than enough to know by this point, I do not like body horror. You don't. Which I only really know about you. when the substance was coming out. Yeah, I wouldn't see it. Yeah, that was the first time that I was like, oh, yeah. I'm always learning new things about each other.

Yeah, okay. I really dislike it. And also the substance is such a sad one to not be able to see. It was good. Because I love everything it stands for. And also, and also it's a really confusing one of people because I watch horror. That is like the one thing that people always like,

oh, you love this? And it's like, no, no, no, no, no. Yeah. I will not. Like, fresh was really difficult for me to watch. Oh, yeah. I don't like anything about cannibalism, but I think that's being, like, a vegetarian little girl.

Yeah, that's fair enough. Kind of, um, has made me really weird about cannibalism. Because I wanted to see that one with Timmy in. Bones and all. Bones and all. But I just can't watch that. Bones and all. Yeah, it's crazy.

Goodness. Cool. I'm going to be sick. Okay. Yeah. Yeah, so interesting little chat we're going to have here today. Mm. I hope.

I hope so. Um. Any thoughts to kick us? No, but this was kind of recommended by someone. Not recommended, requested. Yeah. It's recommended by the chef. Recommended, yeah.

Someone asked us to talk about this, which is always exciting. Is it? It's always exciting, is it? Guys, I'm exhausted. I've been working two nights and around. It was always exciting. It was exciting when someone, also I feel like it's not because we get, we actually quite long.

Which is always exciting. Okay. Do you know what I was doing last night? I was scrubbing out a urinal. Right. That's the elephant in the room, I think. Because also, when we got on the chat this morning, I was like, God, okay, so you were scrubbing,

tell me more about it. She was like, no, no, I actually like that job because you get to, you go upstairs, you scrub the urinal. And I was like, whoa, God, you're really selling it to me that you really are enjoying the urinal, the stuff with the urinal you've been doing. I'm not enjoying the crumption.

clean but that is one of the jobs that I sort of do volunteer to do quite weirdly like because I quite like to just go upstairs and do the bathroom as you said yeah well I completely get what you mean about getting out of the eye line of the customer just get out of my fucking face like I need to be in hiding I used to spend all my time hiding in the stock room or the toilet yeah yeah I feel like this girl is like shitting all day because I would just be like on my phone in the bathroom like I'm not getting out of it that was when I worked at Sainsbury's and I would go and sit on the toilet for literally like 40 minutes at a time listening to the Percy Jackson audiobook and then I got five minute immediately oh god mid-covid as well how could they do that to

you I think to be honest got to put food on the table well I actually do think because so me and my sister both worked that like my friend was the manager there she was like do you guys want to work nice and we were like fuck yeah and I think we actually were a bit disrespectful like we didn't really take it as seriously as we should have it's one way of putting it and we got fired after two weeks because we, I would like, I thought I was like some kind of, I don't even know. Oh, you were Robin Hooding people, I remember. Going around, like, sneaking in. I was basically stealing from Sainsbury's, giving them to, like, people.

Like, it was Easter and I was putting, like, cream eggs in everyone's shop and stuff like that. Yeah. Which was just, honestly, to make the shift a bit more fun. Something to do, isn't it? It was like 4 a.m. I'm in Sainsbury's, for fuck. How many hours? Can I get in that one? What else was supposed to do?

All right, look, it's always exciting to talk about something you've been recommended to talk about. Yeah, that's. nonsense sorry about that it's always exciting it's always no but sometimes sometimes it's just impossible to not end up like doing the bit of like so in this episode oh i'm here with the microphone anyway yeah it's irrelevant it's not it's not important so we recommended this and it's always we recommended this my friend and it's always super exciting when that happens and we hope you love listening to it as much as we enjoyed making it and please like comment and subscribe you should actually follow it on Spotify if you can please I hate to ask but like there is a

milestone that we could hit on there which would be quite good is that we're quite a way away from it just between us but but there is a milestone but there are many milestones we could hit eventually oh my god okay perfect so everyone follow us there everyone follows us on Spotify we'll just like do whatever you want just live your life I hope you have a nice day by the way honestly nice to see you just go to cinema Chill, just like that. Live your life. Just do your thing.

Scrub your vinyl. Right. Somebody said, could you say the exact question? Do you remember it? It was kind of advice for finding direction in life, right? It was pretty much that. Obviously, you've come to the right place. Yeah.

Yeah, it was literally advice for finding direction. Okay. And we've taken it on our own little... We've put a nice little spin on it. It's kind of not really what you asked, but also it is. Well, look, I think... Should I go? Go.

Okay, so I'll start with one thing, for example. Last night, went to see 28 years later, perfectly. We set that up almost by magic. Now we've tied it back in. And within the first like 10 minutes, I had myself thinking. And don't be alarmed because I did enjoy the film. But I thought to myself, huh, I don't, I think I'm at the point where I realize me and Danny Boyle don't necessarily get along. I don't love the style of film.

I did like the film. But. Yeah. Other than the end, I love the whole style. the two minutes at the end and the i said seffi instant replay that i'm watching every five minutes i know you do i know you do you see the arrow then you see the arrow again 500 more than every different angle it's just a little bit like you're literally like that's like baby cousin is like throwing like cars around the room sort of thing but love it love it i'm happy for you you know whatever sensory

overload yeah it's just it's a little much for me and i thought to myself huh danie boyle like you know you're not my favor whatever and then i thought how lovely to be you know you're not my favor whatever and then i thought how lovely to be at a point in my life where I think things like Danny Boyle's not my fave. Yeah. Because when you're like 13, I wasn't necessarily thinking, Danny Boy was not my fave. I was thinking, oh, God, God,

look at that arrow. I was thinking, God, a lot of other things. Yeah. And so we had a brief conversation earlier about taste and how that is a nice kind of like guiding light to steer you when you're feeling kind of directionless. and lost, it is nice to almost like, I think I find it

and someone I remember asked about this as well so it's always exciting. Another question we got, someone said like, you know, I don't know if it was advice on or like can you talk more about finding your sense of self? And I think these two concepts kind of scissor each other quite nicely because there's something about feeling very lost

and directionless and for me personally also feeling like I'm lost in myself, not even in my life. like things in my life are whatever I'm going through the motions it might be fine but for whatever reason I'm feeling lost in myself there's something comforting about being like I enjoy this podcast for example or like I have acquired a taste or I have an opinion and that is true to me and almost like this is the living proof here I am human being at my court full complete with things to say and something to offer yeah there's something really like Thank God for that about it. Yeah. Also, I, we were just talking about this as well, but a few days ago, I was in a cafe by the beach, actually. And I was making this kind of like, just in my notebook, it was like, I was doing this kind of exercise from, I'm reading, I don't know if I mentioned this, I'm reading The Source by Dr. Tara Swart, Queen.

And in there, it's like, make a, you draw like a tree and then you write five names of five people that are closest to. you in your life right now. And then you do five adjectives that describe each of them. And then you look at which ones you have and look at which ones you don't have and like what's negative and positive or whatever. Basically it's a way of being like if the five closest people to you are like informing your behaviours, which behaviours do you like? Which behaviours do you think you have?

Blah blah blah blah. Yeah. Wing obviously was on there. And I wrote down, I texted you being like I wrote down this adjective which I think you might. it might not like come to you immediately about yourself. Like I feel like you would maybe be like no or I don't know. But then the word was self-assured.

Like I feel like you really, really like have a strong sense. Yeah, of who you are, what you like and kind of those like tastes. It's nice. It's for trait, self-assured, I believe. It's a what? A Sims-4 trait. Self-assured. There goes my taste again. Hey, she likes Sims.

Yeah. Well, it's nice. I think it's really that. I think you do have like a really strong sense of like, um. Well, I'd definitely give you something, don't I? Yeah, for sure. There's definitely something that I'm giving you that you can feed off of. Yes.

Nothing to feed off. So much to feed off. Feast. I don't know. Well, why did you bring that up? Because I think you've got a really strong sense of your taste. Oh, got it. Yeah, I'm not sure.

Yeah. I think you do. But like, I get the thing of being like, okay, so I'm in the cinema and I'm having an experience of I do not like this thing. This is like not for me. I'm not having fun. I'm not having a good time. I want to go back to the noodles. I actually did really enjoy the film.

Yeah, no. Oh my God. It was amazing. As I've said, would be a fast-stop film. Just Dannyville pushes his luck with me specifically. Also, it's sometimes it is like literally a matter of just. Show some restraint. For someone.

But it's not necessarily for me. No. It's not. So fine. It's almost, that's for Bart Simpson. No, no, but that's me. That's so mean. It's for kind of...

I loved it. I do, I do, whatever. I loved it. The bit when they are, like, so that, the trailer for 28 years later, if you don't want to watch the film, fine. You don't have to watch the film. If you watch, that is the most beautiful. I have seen in so fucking long. It's a really good trailer.

It's absolutely insane and has redefined what making a trailer. But that's not what I mean by his style. Specifically the style I mean like the jumpy edit. Because I like the splicing in of like historic footage or whatever obviously. And I like beautiful kind of sound design. I just don't need to see an arrow from 500 different shots of an iPhone. It's wild. I do need to see it.

Then I love that. I think I actually need to see. Look at us, grown adults with our tastes. Running really fast through the woods. There's something kind of candy crush about it. It's like Subway Surfer. I agree. There's nothing like it.

And also, I think of you, if he was like a first time direct that had made that people that this is too much, like this is too much. Do you imagine if a woman tried doing something like that? It was insane. But I literally love it. Like, it's fully like an assault on the sense. It's like, oh my God. It is definitely.

an assault, yeah. I really, really like it. I do like it. I like the film as well. I like his stuff. I'm constantly thinking some restraint there would have been nice. Just because you can,

doesn't mean you should. I think dial it up. At MedCan, we know that life's greatest moments are built on a foundation of good health from the big milestones to the quiet winds. That's why our annual health assessment offers a physician-led, full-body checkup that provides a clear picture of your health today.

and may uncover early signs of conditions like heart disease and cancer. A healthier you means more moments to cherish. Take control of your well-being and book an assessment today. Medcan. Live well for life. Visit medcan.com slash moments to get started. Do you know who's amazing? We've just spoken about this as about Aaron Taylor Johnson. Oh, my Lord.

It's best he's looks since like Robbie, I think. Yeah, everything about it is perfect. from that one thing that you do that I don't like. Yeah, yeah. There's, I don't actually have a character. One little point that I'm not a big part. I know what the thing is, I don't like that whole bit of him.

He's perfect, perfect, perfect until the moment they return. Until he opens his mouth basically. Yeah, basically and it's like, it was a silent film. Once again, if it was a Charlie Chaplin silent number, I'd be, he'd be perfect. No, no, he wouldn't. Other than that one thing.

Yeah. Other than that one moment. But so good. so you were just saying about, which is this is such a small one, but I think is so just one of those things of like, kind of just like knowing what you like, and it's just being like now a thing that like, yeah, I know I don't like this thing. You were just saying that you like a firm pillow. I love a firm pillow. And it's like, yeah, that's like, it's a soft pillow. I know there for many people, but firm pillow all the way. Better. Yeah. Better. And that makes me feel more confident,

weirdly. Not the pillow specifically. But the relationship. But the relationship. But the relationship. between me and my understanding of said pillow yes now I feel better because I'm made a choice and I and I like it and like yeah it feels comforting to know that like this thing that I'm like going through life with oh that's me yeah okay we better get to know that then and like okay fine like gotta stock up on hard pillows there's just something about that that it's kind of like validating in that way. I think as well because I, this sounds like really crazy, but it is just an objective truth about my life.

My belief is that I can see that other humans are like valid and, you know, whatever in their own being and have whatever, but I don't see that, but I think there's something wrong with me or like, I'm not, I'm not equal to the other humans. So then when I notice myself being like,

wait, but you like firm pillows. Yeah. It's almost like, well, there is something in there, though. There's a lot in there. Maybe you're probably like the other humans. you're just like them I don't know I do get that

it's not nothing no it's not nothing especially okay so when you're writing out your five traits of people what are the ones that you're most drawn to then or that you feel most connected to

or that you feel like subconsciously or consciously you're drawn to in other people to help you feel like you're going in the right direction well it was actually shocking to me like what it was emerging so clearly

that the people that are closest to me all have these like core things which are they're fucking generic as shit like they but it just shows like how important these things are to me yeah I was so so so surprised that like every single person that is like close to me and I want in my life is funny every single person funny number one not every single person that I want that I want to be crucial of the sentence that I want okay fair enough everything one funny yeah

I'm included in that strong second clever witty funny slash witty I put like quite a lot like they just have like got like a sense of like wit to them um loyal was like a big one like just people very loyal do I get that loyal or did I not get that I don't think that was in your top five

I'm sake okay I think but like that was more like fine fine I don't know if loyal. Disloyal. There's so much more that goes above that. But like loyal was really, really strong with my family. Right.

Like there's a sort of like, you know. Of course. Yeah. Okay. Not to be too. Yeah. Okay. But you obviously are loyal.

It just wasn't in your top. Okay. Did it quite make the cut on that one. No, no. But I think it was really useful just like I actually really recommend it as like an exercise. Yeah, I'm going to do it. It was really. If you get loyal.

Yeah. I'll send you the page from her. Yeah, please do. It was really interesting. It just surprised me because there were traits in their like, I don't know, kindness is so important. But it wasn't showing up as much as funny. It was low. It was actually low in terms of like all these people are kind.

But it's like when I actually am thinking about like, God, who are there? It's like they are funny. They are clever. Like even like some people. people that I absolutely love being like selfish is one of the core traits but like it is overridden by their intelligence the funniness yeah loyalty like all of the staff yes like and actually people that had like um maybe like um softer traits were not I don't know there was less kind of like I'm less uh what is it less inclined to align myself with them

maybe well i think you like softness if it's at full volume i think you don't yeah i don't think you like anything yeah i think that might be there's something in there i think that you don't like stuff kind of diluted you want the full sort of i think this is like um a taste thing i don't really like or like i find it really i don't find it particularly like compelling like that kind of middle zone almost like yeah it's almost like I like to or like the people that I feel really drawn to like exist at kind of extremes of stuff like

and you're definitely at extremes before you give me a look I'm loud and quit I think I just like people that are like have intense personalities I think it's because it's what I grew up with like people that are like intensely themselves

like not even like proudly themselves or like unashamedly themselves but like cannot help but be like intensely themselves and like emotions are at like the surface of like everything whether that's like having an amazing time or having a terrible time or like if you're angry you're fully angry if you're sad you're fully sad if you're laughing you're like crying laughing like all of that stuff i think i don't particularly feel drawn to people that like exist in the middle end of that spectrum, which maybe is like kind of a healthier way to be. But I find it really boring, actually. People that are just like, like, I don't know, that is really rude. No, I don't think it's rude. I don't think it's rude at all. I think it makes a lot of sense, even in a lot of ways.

I think it makes sense even just like on a compatibility level, which is like, what, like, can't argue with that. But also I think there is something about kind of, the things that you value, like humor and intelligence. You want that. And like honesty. Yeah. Like it, I think I find it potentially like dishonest or like inauthentic in a way.

When like things feel kind of like a bit neutral. It's like I know that there's something in there. Yeah, please let me have it. You know. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. No, I love it.

So I think I do like it was it was really helpful in terms of like really getting on paper like your tastes of. your taste in terms of like friendship relationships family all of the staff like and all of it's informed by it all like it's kind of like a cycle of staff but it really was quite useful just to be like oh my god like all these people that are like my key people the trains are screaming loud and clear well i think it's no i think that's good because well i think doing something like i'm going to do this i'm going to write down the five people or whatever and yeah we'll see And I went a bit beyond the five. I did the five.

And then just kind of some top players. And then I did like some people that are also really close to me. Yeah. Then thinking about like, just that thing of like if you're most informed by the five people. Yeah. Let's maybe bring in. There's so many people on the sidelines that I admire that you could be brought in to that. Yeah.

Because I think it can be confronting then if you do this five thing and whatever, or you start listing people who you see the most or have the most kind of impact on you. And you start listing out. well like they're kind of like judgmental so maybe you know I need to yeah I need to be aware of that at least if this is someone who I can't help but have in my life then I need to at least hold that with me in my mind when I'm around them and stuff because I do think like well you're so malleable I am so malleable so impressionable yeah that like yeah okay spend like five weeks with someone and I'll become a lot more like them than I was before so so so so quickly yeah and some

utterly, I think, as well. It starts rubbing off. Like, yeah, no, it's so true. Yeah. Sorry, I interrupted you. Go on. Did you? I think so. Well, it's probably for good reason, because I don't have anything else good to give.

Well, I was then saying that I, okay, so recently I had a conversation. Do you guys remember we were talking about being capped at a sea as a friend? Yes. Or friendships that you cap as a sea, whereas some people are expected, whatever. Do you guys remember that? I remember it. It was a while ago, this time last year, probably. ish god time flies

wow anyway I had a conversation with someone else the other day that kind of re-contextualized some things for me yeah and I started kind of processing you know just you know just letting some things the dust is settling on certain things I'm you know okay coming to new conclusions

coming to conclusions and just kind of wrapping things up and just seeing how I feel about that yeah and I was kind of saying just before we started recording this that there are certain things about people that may have been in my life, for example, that even if I were feeling, this sounds really horrible, maybe. Well, maybe it is horrible.

It's not nice. But also, I think we keep being like, or like, the instinct is to be like, oh, I'm being, I'm not mean, I'm not being horrible. But actually, we're talking about taste, which is a matter of, matter of liking and disliking things. And also, what I'm about to say is not even so much about taste and liking and disliking, but actually, I think it's about not feeling like I am allowed to be hurt by something that someone else has done or like like not feeling like that in the way that other people I can see

other people as human I almost don't believe that other people can do things wrong I only think I can do something wrong Jesus that makes sense even though I know like obviously you know people I get it like you know I'm not you know but but in my belief of like how I act in my life it's hard for me to really understand that other people could do something hurtful to me and I could be allowed to be upset by that. That's hard for me to grasp because I assume that I'm doing everything wrong and I must have just, you know, got my knickers in a twist somewhere. Yeah.

But no. Anyway, re-contextualizing, just re-understanding this situation that happened probably about this time last year through new conversations with it. And, you know, just as things change and whatever, just thinking back, how do I feel about that? You know, could I have acted different? How is that moving forward? And I think in terms of like feeling a strong.

sense of direction, there is something about being able to look elsewhere and knowing like, okay, even if I don't know who I am or where I'm going, I'm confident that I'm not doing that. I'm confident that I'm not doing what you're doing. And maybe that is enough. And that maybe sounds mean. And it's not about carrying a judgment towards other people's choices in their lives. but I think more about like using it to affirm your choices and like who you are and what you want.

Yeah. And not feeling like you need to kind of just like crumble into what other people are doing. Especially when you're younger, I think that is hard to hold on to. Definitely. Because those things are decisions as well. Like when you're, yeah, when you're younger and everyone seems to be going down one path and you maybe do a different thing, it might not feel like you're actively making a decision against it but even by like opting out

is a choice yeah do you ever get it where I don't know sometimes I think about like I've been in certain areas of the world I mean geographically where like people have been very like racist for example or people have been very like had a particular political leaning and you're made out to be the fucking weirdo definitely for saying like hey guys like me oh my god yes i actually like or just you know you know that's kind of one of the big differences i think from like going home that is like a small

town that like potentially like reform kind of beliefs or like there might be like even just like a smaller view like even taking like huge political shit storms like out of it which like there is like a huge huge huge huge discrepancy of how we think but like even just in terms of like what the role of a woman is in society or just like the decisions you should make um maybe you should be married with three children by the age of like 25 like you should have frozen your eggs at 24 they don't think they don't think freeze eggs I don't think they don't think pop them out freezing eggs I think is like whoa god therapy well do you remember one someone said to one of my friends when we were probably 23 or 24 she was like if you're not going to have kids now you should freeze your

eggs. Oh my God. No, I don't remember that at all. Who was that? It's quite bad, isn't it? I can't say. Could you tell me? If you know that name.

No. I know, don't know that name. Weird. Yeah, there just are different views. Like, definitely. That was like a huge thing of like going, going to a city and being like, oh my God, everyone kind of, or like the vast majority of people that I'm meeting here are agreeing with the things that I think, which I have thought, or like people in my whole life have

being like oh god you bloody feminist like vegan feminist and i'm like okay like i'm just like seen i'm a weirdo yeah basically and then sort of going back to it and feeling maybe a little bit um i don't know like silently smog i'll say of just like okay like you are in a small town and that's why you think that nothing in small towns boy have i put my time in in the small town yeah yeah But it's like that is why you have these beliefs because you haven't really left this place. And trust me, it is self-contained. And these people is, you know, it's generational staff going on there. But yeah, when you leave, you do see a bigger thing.

And then you come back and it's completely different ideologies going around. But it's so even like us talking about, and we will get back on this, but kind of the whole self-sabotaging thing and talking about the climate of like recreating the kind of magic that was. like 2020, 2021 for us. Yeah. Of like there are certain conditions that allow you to lean into feeling better. There are certain conditions that allow you to feel like shit. Yes.

And like the longer they are sustained, the harder it is to kind of claw your way out and back into something good for yourself. Yeah. I was going to ask a question and it's a bit like depressing. But I think we might have a good conversation about it. And I'll answer as well. Yeah. if I can think of an answer.

Yeah. I wonder if it's worth considering the time in your life, my life, our life, whatever, where let's even do it about the podcast, actually, it might be quite good, quite enlightening. Where you felt most lost. The time in the podcast where I felt the most lost. I guess, unless you wanted to open it up to your own life, right? Let's do that. Let's do it with a podcast.

So take the out, yeah. it's an interesting question because there have been highs and lows and yeah do you know a time that's coming to me and i don't know if this will be what you're thinking of but i think this is about how because basically all of it is just about how you feel yes completely yeah the time that i probably felt most like insecure and like unhappy i guess like and like the podcast like it wasn't necessarily stressing me because it was everything at this point and i kind of has been for the whole five years but but But like I think I felt just particularly bad in myself and then like having to film like or just like being on FaceTime was like difficult. I just had a lot of like body image shit going on at this time was when I lived in Putney. So weird because I was going to bring this up earlier. Yeah. Intriguing. I lived in Putney and it was like a kind of an amazing time.

We'd got this kind of incredible house that we lived in because it was like just post-COVID. It was a house that now, Jesus Christ, we would not be able to afford. Yeah. Had like an amazing like spiral staircase down to the garden. Oh my God. It was incredible. I'm like just by the river. Loved it.

And I was doing like nothing but the podcast. But that's not, it wasn't really enough. Like it was just kind of like doing the one hour of a podcast and then just like you couldn't go anywhere. Like it was kind of pandemicy times. You're just sort of in a house or like going for a walk along the river every day. And I wasn't like particularly. fulfilled in my life I think and it was just a kind of a lost

time but like also so amazing at the same time and I think I felt really bad just like in the way that body image has always been the thing my go to way to like express like self-hate basically and I think it just came up

classically it was just like waiting I feel bad classic body image is just gonna come in and I think I found it really difficult to even like sit down and be on FaceTime and like we're like recording little we're recording the whole episode on our phones at that point just to do reels with them like not even that many but I found that like really stressful I think that was probably the time it's funny because I was thinking of that specific time but for a different reason and almost in a in a vague sort of way I was thinking about it in relation to people in life who then because they're doing different sorts of things

there's a sort of judgment that can kind of, even if it's not like outward or explicit, it feels like, oh, we're making different choices and like, do you think I'm wrong or like, yeah, things like that. Yeah, do you know what I mean? Yeah. But also, like, it is really interesting because it feels like sometimes it's kind of what you said at the beginning about it's, it's so mental. Because so much of like when you're feeling really lost, I think is like when things are just going quite well.

generally. It was all under the surface. Yeah. It wasn't even necessarily bad enough to change anything. Like, almost all, like, to realize you need to change anything. I think I just felt kind of like low-key, bad. Yeah. For ages. Like, that was sort of it, like, almost, because I was, I was happy and all of that. And also, my life was kind of luxurious. It was lovely, yeah. It was really luxurious. Like, it was stunning.

I was, like, nannying for some kids, like, that lived in, like, actually the same house. I forgot. I forgot about that. Yeah, it was like insane. Like, they're probably 100 years old by now. It was so nice. Like, it was really stunning. But, yeah, I think I just, that, that, there was like a lot of space in my life.

Just kind of classic COVID-y vibes, but almost like COVID had, yeah, it was like starting to taper out. And I, yeah, I just really didn't feel like good in myself when I, like, think back to that time or like a look back. When I look back on my, through my camera roll, that period, a lot of filters on the photo. and things like that. Like I think Instagram was a bit more filtery, like as a bit more filtery, like as a bit of one thing.

But like I look, like not necessarily like I put filters on, but like I'm wearing a camera and the filter like has on the massive lips and like eyes. Yeah, yeah. So I think there was just like a lot of stuff feeding in at that time. Yeah. And there were like eating disorders around me with the people in my life at that time. That kind of what we talked about earlier, like people's traits really do feed into you.

So much. be careful who's close to you and it's nothing against these people like these like literally wish the best like so much like literally wish the best totally but there were people that I have had to cut out of my life because not even in a brutal way in a fizzle they would never see it as a cut no but like genuinely I was not in a position and I will never be in a position I don't want to be in a position to I will never have people that have I've really I'm I really, really fucking struggle to be around people that restrict food, like, as a habit, as a thing. I just can't really do it, and I just don't want to be around it.

I think it's completely fair enough. And I also think then it makes sense thinking of you going back home after that. Yeah. And having a completely different kind of like state to almost like shake off some of that kind of. Because that feels like a million years ago now. That London house, that last one. Yeah. Yeah.

And I didn't have a bad time. I had a great time. I lived in a whole other house in London after that. I loved so much in Hearnhill. And then I was at home. And yeah, I don't know. There have been so many areas. Also, I've moved every year for the last like five years,

other than the year and a half in, at home. Was it only a year and a half that you were at home? Yeah. It wasn't even two years. I don't think it was, no, it wasn't two years. That's crazy. Yeah. But that was a lifetime of stuff going on there.

It was a lifetime of stuff. Like I got aged like five years in that time. Like, yeah, it was intense. What about you? Well, well, actually, before I answer, what do you think got you out of that? What even was my answer? In Putney. The happiest place on earth.

So, so nice. When did you feel the most lost when I was in a beautiful house? When I was living by the river, in a really cheap house, doing my podcast, and I found hard to go on FaceTime. But do you know what I fucking did? So valid. Yeah. Of course.

Yeah. I don't know if it was just shaking up the energy, but I felt like when I think about that time, I do think about the people around you. Yeah. A lot. I think it was that. I think it was the lifestyle of like everyone around me was like working corporate jobs. And I wasn't doing that.

So it made me feel kind of like, what am I doing? This is strange. Like quite lost. Yeah. And then there was so, so, so much really unhealthy stuff around food. Like, just kind of food was like a big thing, but like people weren't really eating. And it was not good to be around. Yeah.

And we're sending so much love, but like, I just can't be around that shit. I did that when I was 16. I can't go back. No. And you shouldn't have to. No. It's funny to just, I was just laughing because it's funny to discuss. cry a bit like that and I thought what did you mean by that when you said food was such a big

thing but nobody was eating it but is that not exactly it's exactly that yeah I can't really explain why but yes food was it's the whole brand like food was made out as if it was eaten all the time which it just sounds like what am I on about yeah no you can't explain it but I can't explain it food was like there was something about food happening I kind of am really I actually will kind of like one of my red flags with people I've noticed this so so so many times and I always So it's a huge thing when people have an eating disorder to become like really hyperfixated with food and like become like chefs and get really into food in like a really big way. And it's like a really, I think I notice it in people now when people have this kind of really specific way of talking about food. But then I eat with them and they don't eat anything.

But it's because talking about food and being into food in this way is actually like an outlet for the eating disorder. it's a really specific trait but so many people that I know that really, really restrict their food have this trait of like really indulging in the way to talk about food and I just can't really be around it. No.

I found it really like confusing because when I talk about food I want to talk about food and I want to eat the food and like the whole thing is a nice thing but when it, when I'm talking to someone about food and go oh my, yeah, yeah, yeah, blah blah blah and then it's actually like sort of a weird fueling thing I really hate it.

it's really yeah it's not it's not nice for anybody involved i don't think no um okay well that's horrible oh that's really awful yeah sorry please how well how are you feeling but kind of like no i feel i feel i i actually feel fun i my energy's bizarre okay let's be frank okay i'll be frank with you all right um well thank you for sharing no no no one but Seriously, thank you for sure. Never a problem. Please, please. Okay, I don't know if I necessarily feel like following that up.

But why don't you? Please. Let's put something else out there. I think that might be a good thing. Don't let it hang. No. Well, not even let it hang, but I just think, to me, like, there's so much to draw from that. And I do think it's kind of, and again, it feeds back into, like, if you haven't listened to our last episode where we were talking about, like, no,

that we'd been self-sabotaging and stuff is a really amazing episode in my opinion and a big theme the theme for us right now and also i think going to be like going to be a constant thing kind of a recurring theme like we're actually on a bit of a journey it's happening yeah um that i kind of feel like it's it has that similar vibe of a kind of low level discomfort yeah and not knowing how to move out of it because so much of it is not even conscious yeah and i think like in those subtle ways where it's like i'm spending a lot of time with someone who i hadn't really noticed but i guess they've brought up what they've eaten like five times already today and it's 11 a m or whatever i'm going to treat myself

to something or like kind of just strange strange language yeah that's just like a subtle example of just like it's going in as a my bowl of past i think that's the thing is not know knowing how much is going in in so many different ways and like this can be for anything and not just even specifically to like you in that time but I just think that is so much about sometimes like something is off and it's so under the surface that almost you can't be expected to be able to identify it right now and even like looking back on what I was saying about that relationship with somebody and like just understanding it in a different way now or like just adding new kind of bits of context to make it make sense please make it make sense i think if you're feeling really lost it might be nice to take off any expectation of like drawing any conclusions for right now and actually like i think sometimes it is more damaging than it's worth trying to find the answers than it is to like just be a little bit easier on yourself because trying to like unpack it all and like be the smartest saddest girl in the room. It's not helpful.

You're definitely not going to be able to unpack it whilst you're in it. No. Or like you might know. I think that's also the thing. There are clues and hints and whispers of valid thought but often the spiral is a spiral. You have to let it be. And you're not like of course

when you're going through a shit time you can be I can like I could probably if I was in that time when I was in that time I knew the issues but also they it's sort of they sort of manifest as like annoyances or earth, that brother, sort of thing. It's not like, whoa,

okay, that sort of way of being was like impacting me, like my mind. Like that has to come later because you can't see the impact when you're in it. Well, because also these negative feelings often bring up such negative thoughts and

it's easy to believe the thoughts rather than to be able to look beyond it. So for example, being like, I feel shit, look in the movie like I look like shit so I have to do something else I have to I need to fix it

I need to not go outside I need to not take a photo whatever you amend the behaviour based on the thought because you're believing the thought but it's not something to be believed right now literally load of bollocks yeah all right

okay thoughts great thoughts good thoughts only good thoughts convincing Good thoughts. Okay. No, genuinely good thoughts. Yeah.

Yeah, I just love where we're at with the podcast at the moment. Same. Like, I really do. Me too. Yeah. Okay. But would we say any different? No.

That really gives me the vibe if there's a scene in Made in Chelsea where this girl's like asking, Harvey's cheated on Emily. Okay. She's asking Harvey's friends. did he cheat on me? Did he cheat on me? And they're all going, no, no, he didn't. He really didn't. We swear, we swear. We swear. And then at the end of the scene, she's like, would you guys tell me if he did? And they all go, no. And he's like, oh, my God. It's kind of iconic. Yeah, it's literally one of those, it's kind of a Game of Thrones scene where like it just all the power shifts at the end. It's like, oh. Yeah. You had me convinced. And they're like, no. It's really cool. It's a great scene. That thing you sent me of Made in Chelsea the other day, I was like... Oh my God, okay, so please can we just talk about that?

Yeah. I've been watching Season 2 Maiden Chelsea these days. Like, I've gone right back to the beginning. Back into the archives. Genuinely. And archives are harrowing of this show. Context here, I've never even seen an episode. Well, the show has changed so much over the years.

But season two is like a great place to start if you want to really get your bearing. You may as well do season one. If you're going to go all the years. the way about to season two? They haven't quite found their feet. Okay. Season two, I would say like, do season one, but like... I'm not going to.

No, don't. But like, I sent... Don't do any of it, honestly. No, I'm not. Like, brain rot. Anything I need from Made in Chelsea, I'll get from you. And to be honest, you spit it like a bird into my mouth. Honestly, you don't need any of this.

Yeah. But there was an interesting bit that I watched last night. I watched... Or not last night. I was scrubbing your eye, and it was last night. It was like in the middle of the night. It was like in the middle of the middle of the house. of the day actually.

It was before work. I was like I just need to get as much Maiden Chelsea into my brain before I go and see the public. And it was a scene of Jamie Lang and he was talking about, I've had this idea for a company it's called Candy Kittins and it's the beginning

of Candy Kittins. And in it, could you just say what you took from it? Right, so immediately he says, I probably know the whole thing off by heart. He goes, and I watched it like twice. It was bad. I literally was like,

I need to just rewatch that. So bad. So he goes, I mean, if anything, oh look, no, that's not even a point.

I was going to say maybe it's comforting to know that you can always shift and rebrand just in the way that Jamie Lang has pre-branded. But yeah, then it's like,

what, if you're like, essentially the heir to the McVitties throne, I get it, not technically. Anyway, he basically,

he goes on and says that his family, so I was thinking about that that he said he's not the air to the McVitie's throne. His family invented the digestive. he's saying his like like there's all this stuff that he goes on about so I think it's

really convenient that it's the rebrand now says oh I'm not the air but it's like but I watched you in this talk about being the air yeah feasting off the being the air enemies of the air beware honestly cute okay so in this clip that I've only seen through you I don't know why I'm doing the quick little rundown but what I got from it what I got from it was him being like hey guys. There's like three other guys with them. Proud luck, Hugo, Hugo and Spencer.

Not my fav gang. Nightmare blood rotation. The pits. Just like it gets from bad to worse to worse to worse. Just every inch your head turns, it just keeps you. You can't believe that it could get worse than that. Genuinely.

Okay, so he's Jamie saying, guys, you know, heed my words. I'm going to come up with this brand. It's really, really cool. Like, trust me. It's going to be called Jamie's Candy. kittens and the whole thing is going to be basically like I want like these models like these young kind of student beautiful student girls who like need a job yeah to like come and like sell my sweets

was quite good boys I feel like I'm getting somewhere thanks uh come and tell my seat and they're like be really hot um basically saying how he's going to traffic these young student girls to what to selling his sweet brand that he doesn't need to do His icon in this situation is clearly like Hugh Hefner kind of vibes of like, I have loads of candy kittens that they're like my kittens. Yeah, and then I take them to the back room and the kittens start purring. That's the line. That's legit line.

I didn't make that up. I go, take them to the back room. Then Hugo says, what happens in the back room? And he goes, the kittens start purring. I've lost my appetite, Jamie. I'm not angry anymore. When he goes, oh yeah, I want loads of young student girls. That's not even talking about the fact he wants students.

student girls, horrific. Hugo goes, well, they're not going to be very beautiful. They're going to be fat and rolling around. Because they've been eating all the candy kittens, whatever. It's crazy. It's crazy. It's crazy. It's actually insane.

The only thing, the only way he gets, it's crazy. If anyone else had all of this footage of them literally being like the biggest piece of shit the planet has ever seen. People want to take a look at Spencers aren't. But the only, like he's not, you know, he's sleeping with one. I open at all because it doesn't need to the richest guy on the planet. It's crazy. But this stuff is on channel for people like me go through the archives. Re-watching it.

And then talking about it on their podcast, don't mean niche. Every six months, I go through these archives. Like, there's crazy shit. As someone who only really knows of Jamie Lang now in this day and age, which by the way, like, if you don't know who the fuck we're talking about, I'm so sorry about this, but it's basically like some reality TV star in England

who's also like rich kind of like English elite sort of guy. And he's like big in the podcast. stuff. He's rebranded. He's got like a wife and they're having a baby. They're having a kid, yeah. And he's kissed our cheeks. Twice. Twice each. And also Jamie, look, I made top trumps with Jamie on. I made

with all of them. I made Made in Chelsea top trams. Jamie is hands down best card to get. He's the highest score. He's the main character of Made in Chelsea. He is. He is the main character. The star. So like, look, he's given me years and years of entertainment since I was literally 14 and watched this fucking show. I think I'm just, I'm really jealous of him in loads of ways,

but I think what trumps it more than anything maybe is the awareness of like, you can really fuck up and it just means nothing. You'll be fine forever. It's actually, do you know what? It's actually really, it's really crazy.

I was watching like, the episodes, it's really horrific actually where he starts seeing Habs, his wife. And just the like immediate cheating. is horrific that's just going on like it's just really quite horrible i just can't believe i've never seen made a chelpsney i talk about it every week on a podcast i've never seen this thing i have watched it

enough for two says enough to go around all right look let's just cut this now it's getting silly we're getting danny boil with it show some restraint again again all right just ruin it right it was almost five stars then jimmy it was great then they brought jimmy And they start doing, Jamie Langan. Start doing weird flips. Literally is that equivalent of that. All right. If you don't hear from us, assume the worst.