Goes Without Saying - "lucky girl syndrome" & delusional living: *privilege dupe!*

Episode Date: March 8, 2023

how does it feel to be god's favourite?join the conversation every monday.shop our merch: sephyandwing.co.ukcome and chat in our book club.speak your mind on the @sephyandwing instagram. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Wendy's Small Frosty is the ultimate summer refreshment. And not because it's cool and creamy and made with fresh Canadian dairy. It's also refreshingly cheap. Just 99 cents until July 14th. It's a treat for you and your wallet. With Vizzy Hard Seltzer, you can follow your vibe. Whether you're looking to bring the energy to your next pre-drink with our new 7% ABV Vizzy Max Pack, or indulge in a leisurely afternoon brunch with our refreshing Mimosa Pack, Vizzy has got you covered. Discover our other variety packs for

even more flavors like Papaya Passion Fruit, Blackberry Lemon, and Pineapple Mango. This summer, bring a splash of extra to any occasion with Vizzy Hard Seltzer. Find Vizzy at a retailer near you. For more info, visit VizzyHardSeltzer.ca. Must be legal drinking age. For more info, visit busyheartseltzer.ca. Must be legal drinking age. It goes without saying you're listening to Goes Without Saying with Sefi and Wing. I'm Sefi. And I'm Wing.

And today we're talking about the lucky girl discourse, about delusion and all the ways in which can we make our lives a bit better by just trying to think we're lucky or is that just privileged bullshit? And to be honest, I think we don't really know which side we sit on it so listen to this and i guess kind of find out here we go oh i'm so ready i'm so ready and you're back in your dressing gown it's a robe i know it feels so nice to be like back in my little corner like back in my little robe cozy with my hot water bottle yeah it feels really nice on the same time zone it's the same time for both of us which is late by my clock oh it is i slept in no i mean oh late in the week yeah it's late in the week but it's late in the day now yeah sorry sorry

that this episode is late i was so jet lagged like horrifically jet lagged i did i did say we can do it we can do it but wing luckily is so fucking nice to me well i just that she was like what are you doing plane i think she was like oh why don't yeah it was seven in the morning i was like i cannot be bothered to deal with you later for a so-called chilled episode when you're gonna be out of your mind i just thought i'm gonna spare us both and the listeners yeah i'm just gonna call it i'm not doing it so sorry about that guys but i love when that happens i think yeah no we do that sometimes for each other i think it's one of the nicest things we do for each other of just like one of us i'm crying i've been crying but i think i can do it and it's like

no go to bed okay oh sometimes it feels it but sometimes today it's feeling divine i'm so excited we've got some um we've got an interesting topic up our sleeves i think yeah we have it's something that's close we are quite delusional and maybe you have to be in life i think you have to be to a certain extent like i mean this thing has definitely been built on delusion a lot of what our lives look like today only happened because two girls were delusional in their bedrooms yeah and i think as well sometimes things feel delusional because you don't or it never felt like our society is like really encouraging me to like push me into new fun spaces like no one was like oh you should do a podcast

like that just never do you know what i mean so it feels delusional wasn't a conversation feel delusional sometimes to just be like oh i think i might like try and do something with my life yeah don't be ridiculous we were talking about this we're talking about this yesterday actually we had a really really nice conversation yesterday for like fucking hours um just getting ready for today um we need to prep we have to prep conversations for our conversations but like we were talking about i feel like that every sort of fiber of the universe was kind of preparing me for some kind of office job like from the moment that i was born essentially to all my education university everything everything was saying like you're gonna work for maybe like a media company like i think i like would have done well in that and i've almost i feel like i was almost being

groomed from an early age for kind of these for a multitude of things i can imagine is that you fit here so then it does feel delusional to be like oh actually i don't think i want to work for the bbc or whatever even though i don't think i want to do that i think i want to do this thing that doesn't really make sense and is right over here which is a fucking podcast with my friend who's right over there zero listeners yeah zero um encouragement zero anything only the fact we want to do it i think it felt like totally delusional nothing's been preparing you for that that's not what your life kind of looked like it looked like where it

was going so i think it's really i don't know it's insane to me that it's worked because right now we're on the fucking home page of apple yeah we are which is iconic which is actually a bit um should we just take a moment to be like thanks apple thanks steve jobs died for us and landed us on the home page it's gonna get us cancelled immediately thanks guys because they immediately yeah they're like these bitches so we're their spotlight for the whole of march i think so that runs for we literally if you if you go on the app if you open apple podcast and click browse we're the very first thing you see like we're the top little picture maybe you came from that which is a bit crazy i didn't really think yeah that's mad hey

if you've if you've just been browsing shit this could be the first thing yeah that's a bit nerve-wracking isn't it well suddenly you get stage fright where that came from speaking about being delusional obviously like there's a there's a huge um like i think it goes without saying that a huge point or like counterpoint to this conversation of like i'm just lucky like manifesting like things always go my way obviously the unspoken or not even the goes without saying the goes without saying elephant in the room yeah is the privilege disclaimer because on all of these lucky girl like tiktoks and everything all the comment well not all the comments lots of the

comments are like really nice and normal but then loads of comments i guess fair enough are saying like rightly so this isn't how about you're not lucky it's just pretty privilege or like how about blah blah it's just privilege and i think sometimes i'm not gonna lie i think i've actually got a point here i make this point quite a lot on this podcast. But I do think it kind of sums it up in that there are so many things that society is holding us, there are so many things that hold us back. And there are so many things that are out of our control that are dictated by Steve Jobs and God and all of these things. Like there are so many things working not in our favor

could be race could be gender could be a ton of different things and you know the ways well you might not but you probably know the ways that you've been impacted negatively in society by like something about you my advice would always be like don't add yourself onto that list of things that are working against you like there are so many things working against you for me personally i i am also a huge i'm the biggest i'm the final boss i'm the end level of i'm my only enemy i'm my worst nightmare like i am the one who's holding me back amongst all of the other shit i in so many ways am the reason that i don't get to do things that i want to do and blah blah blah because i am holding myself back in so many ways on top of

all the other shit so i feel like that that to me is the crux that sums things up for me it's kind of like i think so of course there are so many things working against lots of different people in lots of different ways but also i know what this community is like i know what i'm like sephia i know what you're like and yeah and we're nightmares and we just dump a load of shit on top of all of the other shit that society is feeding us so maybe this lucky girl whole perspective mindset thing might not be so bad nightmare so i think it goes without saying like this lucky girl syndrome conversation and to be honest all of the conversations really that happen on the internet it's not a response to like huge like actual tangible global like social issues like i don't think anyone really in their right minds is talking about lucky girl syndrome and saying that it's gonna fix social issues it's gonna

solve sexism it's gonna fix income inequality it's gonna solve any like real shit i think though it could be a nice thing that like helps a girl get out of bed or like help some people push themselves into new things and like give them some self-belief for once and i'm not mad at that like there's obviously just a huge fucking nuance in it but we keep talking at the moment like especially yesterday it was coming up a lot we kept doing this thing with our hands kind of like sort of holding them both out and being like here you have this and here you have this i think it's like that's kind of how i see the lucky girl thing in a certain way that's like if you have this option i'm kind of holding my two hands out

on one hand you have the option to view yourself as unlucky or just like and believe me you've been told that throughout your life that it's kind of like everything's hard stick in your lane you know your place and don't step outside it on the other hand it's like you can choose like there is a mindset change even if it changes nothing about your tangible reality there are loads of barriers god don't we know it but there is a flip that you can make in your mind you can choose to perceive things this way or to perceive things this way like within a very small like the constraints of sometimes the world but like almost in terms of like you have your cup of tea in the morning yeah you're not gonna be able to

get a job like if it's like you would it's not gonna um change the employer's opinion of your job interview really if there's like a cert like i'm a lucky girl it's like it's not really gonna change yeah any real shit but you're also underqualified it's like sorry we're gonna hire the bloke here like you don't stand a chance but if you have your cup of tea in front of you you can either view it as like i've got fucking down this cup of tea it fucking tastes like shit like ah like it's burning my mouth or you can be like god i have a fucking cup of tea and it's been said a million fucking times over be fucking grateful blah blah blah but genuinely like when i have actually felt like grateful for like the small fucking things that i have control over it's actually insane the difference like the difference of perceiving

your bed as like oh i've got four out i've got to have like six hours sleep yeah or like i get to go to bed like there is such a real difference in these like very very tiny things yeah there is sometimes it's really one of those things where when that mindset and just like when this conversation is out of reach to you it's almost like you've caught us on a good day here so we're talking like oh lovely i have my tea and i have my bed and we're feeling quite good we both said that we on the front of apple pop literally both working at 4am i started crying for three you did that thing where you wake up you go and then you stop and go back to sleep i don't do that you keep saying oh we do that thing

where you know you wake up and you cry and then you go back to sleep 10 seconds later it's like i don't think i've ever done that i commit to the bit yeah i'll be up for hours i think if i well i was up for hours but like i just like stopped crying but like i wasn't crying of anything but it's like i'm definitely the person that's viewing my bed as like i'm gonna get a few hours sleep yeah torture chamber just a jet lag mind which maybe works for you guys i don't know what you're into but i think when when you you caught us on a good day like when you're in it you can feel it's so it feels liberating and maybe it is delusion in this world where like we're all trapped and we're all trapped in so many different ways and life is so unfair and like i'm not gonna sit here and justify all the ways that my life is shit so that like do you know what i mean like there's it's kind of um but i think it goes without saying that all of us

have got barriers against us and when you get to tap into those really like glossy shiny slinky moments of just being like fuck life is fun like i have good things they might these moments might be so few and far between but i think this is why it's cup of tea your bed exactly they're tiny things guys it's not like oh my god i had amazing six years no i had an amazing hour maybe um i think when those moments come they feel so like liberating and that almost to me feels like i've broken through something and it's like ah like this is what life is about like this is the real me genuinely because it is actually about small shit like i remember i started this thing this was years ago i don't know if i've ever

spoken about it before probably have spoken about all kinds of shit on here but like i remember watching a thing that was like write down three things that you're grateful for every day for 21 days that's how long it takes to change a habit or like make a new habit and see how you feel at the end of the 21 days now i have it on my notes i've got three different notes open i think each of them go up to like day 140 or something but just like started a new fucking notes every time like i have i did it for way over 21 days and i mean i'm not in the process of doing that at the moment but every single time that i'm in the like daily thing of writing down three things i'm grateful for for every day it's like these things are tiny they're never like um

like it takes so long to even think of something sometimes but it's like they're never fucking huge i'm so grateful for example today i'm so fucking grateful i'm on the apple podcast home page that's not the daily thing we're definitely not saying that every day absolutely no no fucking way it's i'm so grateful um i only got dog shit on one of my shoes so grateful i didn't cry in tesco yeah it's literally bollocks like some days it doesn't feel like a good like there's not much to fucking think of but like i don't know you do actually feel such a difference from doing that like as opposed to when i'm living not in a lucky mindset i don't know sometimes yeah when i feel such a difference from it i think as well like maybe the crux here is that

if this whole conversation and like being lucky almost feels like a bit of a joke to you like it feels like a bit of a kick in the teeth and i think it and it does it surely will like it kind of is it kind of is like people like you're going about your life only you know the hard parts of your life maybe not maybe you share it with thousands of people on a podcast i don't know your business but even then only you know what your day-to-day looks like and it might not be slinky and like glossy and all of those things i just said earlier to be honest it really probably isn't like who whose life is glossy i don't know and there are some people don't get me wrong yeah i trust i've seen some slinky lives in my time i've seen some slinky things but i almost just think the crux is like if this whole conversation feels out of reach to

you right now and almost like it doesn't apply to you that's okay and it's not your fault or like it's not your um it's not failing of you in your life because i think for me personally my we were kind of talking about this the other day but like my reaction when things don't apply to me or like there's kind of a global conversation or just like the girlies are talking and they're talking about something and it's not doesn't feel right for me my instinct isn't to get annoyed with them my instinct is to be annoyed with myself like the frustration my instinct is to get annoyed at them yeah which i think is also fair enough like people will be annoyed us right now for entertaining this conversation but i think i think it's really easy when things don't apply to you you feel

excluded and you feel like you're doing something wrong or like you're failing or you're not good enough or like it's just almost like a joke it's like how do you expect me driving to work and like my kid is crying in the back i'm grateful for my yeah do you know i was a load of bollocks up and i think both of those things can exist at the same time like you can be opening your notes up one day and writing down your gratitude and the next day kicking off about the whole conversation and not feeling it and i think both of those things can exist at the same time they both do i think and they do exist i think that's quite transparent from even so far in this conversation that we both feel quite conflicted with it like i think both of us are quite into the idea of viewing things

positively in that kind of way like i think we definitely strive for that but then i think you can even hear in us we have the conflict of like but life isn't fucking fair what a disgusting privilege conversation like i think that is coming right through to my ears anyway okay good like yeah it is it is an objectively dumb conversation like almost when i've seen the tiktoks i don't know if it's objective sorry i'm just talking right over you now but i think as well like sometimes when things are really loving and wholesome and nice and they're like sometimes people are genuinely trying to be nice to you or like sometimes things come with love and because they're received by someone who is full of hate it then puts the person who's with love in the wrong i'm not

making any sense but you get what i mean it's like just because someone's being sweet and wholesome and loving doesn't mean it's like forced or disingenuous or contrived or any of the it just pisses me off but do you know what no go on i think just sometimes like being sweet and like nice is not appreciated in this world but anyway i'm a story i mean i think we can get into that at so many points i think also can can you tell listener harry can you tell that i feel like i mean we're not going to talk about it in this episode we're not going to talk about it but like there was definitely something that was said to us recently that maybe made us feel a little bit like defensive and i feel like it's coming through just in our um tone just in

the content even i think we're we're over explaining ourselves we everyone here knows what we're trying to say i i think like people know what we're trying to say it's a conflicted fucking thing there's only so much explaining you can do when someone is determined to misunderstand exactly also the whole thing of this is called lucky girl delusion it's about delusion so of course there is a the whole thing of it is a delusion it's absolutely deluded it's it's it's absolutely deluded to be like i'm lucky i'm lucky i'm lucky but that's not fucking point of the conversation yeah we know 100 like let's not over explain ourselves we fucking know everything you're saying everything you're thinking all your critiques of us we agree

yeah we're just two dumb girls we thought of it before you did trust me we didn't no i mean we thought of the critiques oh the critique yeah yeah we hate ourselves more than you hate us don't worry if you think these girls need any more hate they don't delusion so can i ask you a question yeah in what ways do you think you try and bring in luck and delusion into your like day-to-day life that's a nice question let me think let me mull Wendy's small frosty is the ultimate summer refreshment and not because it's cool and creamy and made with fresh Canadian dairy. It's also refreshingly cheap. Just 99 cents until July 14th. It's a treat for you and your wallet.

ACAST powers the world's best podcasts. Here's a show that we recommend. Nature. I've got a gay rooster named Francois. Is so gay. These rams are gay. I'm studying gay animals. Does that mean I'm gay?

So why don't more people know this? I'm Owen Ever. I'm Lane Kaplan-Levinson. And this is a field guide to gay animals. A podcast about queerness in the natural world. The animal kingdom is queer. And we are a part. Find a field guide to gay animals on Spotify, Apple,

or wherever you get your podcasts. ACAST helps creators launch, grow, and monetize their podcasts everywhere. ACAST.com i think there's something to be said about like a lot of things like things not necessarily being facts like my perspective of me other people's perspective of me what i imagine other people's perspectives of me to be like none of these things i'm not as much as there are rules in life i'm not living by a rule book and when i feel like there are certain things being prescribed to me sometimes that isn't necessarily true or kind of what you were talking about earlier like trying to flip the switch of well what if i just act act as if for an hour as if it's not true what if and kind

of fake it till you make it like this thing that i've just presumed to be a given of florence given like oh i could never do that like almost a rule that i've written for myself of like oh i could never be the person who has a podcast for example doesn't make sense where am i going to get the bollock to do that that's so embarrassing like who do i think i am yeah just shut up like don't do that same as i always yeah that's just the monologue every one day um but if you just act as if for a minute before you know it oh you've accidentally but definitely on purpose created something that you feel really good about feel so positive about like feel so grateful for and now there's something else to add onto your list where previously there wasn't like that's something to write in your notes about tonight okay i'm grateful

that i was just a bit deluded and i was a bit embarrassing and i committed to the bit and i just went for it do you know what i mean yeah i love that you're using act as if here act as if can i just explain what that is go on act as it i think you first people will i don't know people well the thing is i'd never heard of it before but i think you saw this yeah on my i have a load of alarms that go off throughout the day which my therapist told me to put on there that are kind of during getting over a bit of body dysmorphia sort of vibes um but just body dysmorphia not the vibes just the vibes of body dysmorphia not the diagnosis of quite crippling body dysmorphia just the vibe general vibe i have a load of alarms that go off

throughout the day and we were away together on a little we were going skating we're on a skate camp and you saw and you were like your alarms going off what did it say and it just said act as if and you were like what's that time i saw you said act as i think so because you were like what's that and i was like oh and it has like a little dancing girl emoji act as if dance but like act as if dance what what it means i mean it's pretty obvious but it's like for me it's like um act as if you don't have body dysmorphia so that means you can wear this you can talk like this you can look like this you don't have to wear your hair like this you can um eat what you fucking want like if you act it's almost like if you do the behaviors the idea is that then the thoughts will follow like if you act you just have to just be deluded just pretend

that you don't have this thing yeah just pretend for when you're getting dressed just act as if you don't have this fucking nightmare thing in your head oh before you know it you're wearing the outfit that you could never have worn and even if you still really deep down think god it's fucking mortifying that i'm wearing this or fucking mortifying that i went for like second helpings at dinner which we were doing a lot on that on that skate camp we were going for thirds i was hungry i've been skating all day i'm a growing lad and then i i do think that's where delusion i love that you use that because i hadn't even thought of it but delusion plays such a huge part in like healing from a fucking bad thing in your head i think that it's like if i can just pretend for one hour or even like the 10 minutes that i

get dressed or the 10 minutes that i eat or whatever the fucking struggle is for you if i can just pretend or just like put that into the back of my mind and just be deluded just i'm gonna i'm kind of cosplay as someone that doesn't have this shit yeah whilst i get dressed before you know it you're the person wearing a bikini are you joking even if you still feel embarrassed to be wearing it you're still fucking wearing it and stretching out the muscles of just stretching your brain out like you can absolutely change the way that your mind is working the more you and it kind of is it's so um everyone knows fake it till you make it and i'm sure everyone has had their own positive and negative experiences with it but sometimes it can be so it's kind of giving that liberating

feeling of like when you can tap into something that isn't telling you you're a piece of shit it probably feels really good guys like we should try it because if you almost like as well if all you get from it was five minutes where you were performing as if you were someone else who didn't have this struggle or whatever it may be and even if it felt like a performance and you were like on the brink the whole time and you barely did it and all of these things at least like you gifted yourself five minutes yeah of feeling what it would be like a moment of what it would be like because also those five minutes there might be five minutes where you're lying in bed or they could be the five minute presentation you've got to give five minutes can be fucking powerful when you need five minutes

yeah it's like if i i used to have really bad social anxiety i probably still do in loads of ways i'm just not in the scenarios that trigger it at the moment. But when I was at university, I remember the fake it till you make it was such a fucking thing in presentations that would be like, if you can just literally walk into the room like you have confidence, all you've got to do is just not be fucking quivering and shaking at every moment. Just pretend, just pretend, pretend, pretend, pretend, pretend, get home, fucking pass out asleep.

Like you're, it's taken every moment of energy you had but if you can get through that with just pretending i actually found it like because i'm an actor at heart that's what i was gonna say it almost becomes a bit fun when you're slipping into a role and i think we're the type of people who quite like slipping into roles because it's not saying oh i don't have anxiety for these 10 minutes i've got to do this it's saying i'm i'm inside i am like going to faint like my vision is gone but i'm just pretending for all of these people that i don't and to be honest it did actually get me through some got your degree got me got me through well my presentations maybe didn't go that well i don't i don't know i actually have blanked them out but like it definitely made really really hard situations that i was like crying at home

thinking i couldn't go when i put on the act put on the at the fucking outfit that someone that was good at presentations could wear blah blah blah ate the breakfast that someone that was good at presentations would eat walks there like i fucking method actually even though i'm shaking before you know you've done the presentation you're at home i think as well sometimes the well not even sometimes this when you're dealing with a really shitty difficult struggle that is very serious and very shit and sometimes that seriousness really sucks the life out of you and it feels almost um unnatural or like again like a joke to almost adapt or like try and adapt a bit of an unserious solution to like a really serious problem but sometimes it's exactly what you need of like you're dealing with something really shit

yeah you're dealing with something that almost you can't see past and it's so consuming and it's really negatively impacting your day-to-day who'd have thought that like being a little bit silly yeah suddenly you're like john travolta and hairspray like getting a little um costume on you're getting ready to go like who knew you were in your dressing room that was kind of all you needed to just get you half an hour just buy you some time i think that makes perfect sense though if you think that you're bringing this heaviness to usually a situation that isn't that heavy bringing some lightness it's almost like it's the antidote it's like all you've got to do is get on the bus i don't know why like you're crying like it's almost like i'm crying about getting on the bus all of this stuff it's so stressful when it's actually pretty like a

mediocre thing but your mind has convinced you that that is like a threat to you it's scary all of this stuff of course the opposite energy is going to kind of neutralize it a little bit and be like okay so i'm going to treat this like a role i'm someone that gets on buses now that isn't something i'm scared of but i know some people that find that and also re and kind of reintroducing yourself and like realigning your identity kind of what we were just saying the rules that you've set out for yourself i'm someone who can't get on buses not necessarily fact it's actually not fact at all probably like if you're like you you've got a future in you like you have more days in you

you have more experiences with buses in you i'm sorry to say yeah don't this is why it's all now yeah exactly don't end that chapter there like oh i'm just someone who can't do that and suddenly the rule was written as it was but that's why they're playing the part thou shall not travel on buses but that's why playing the part is everything because you play the part as if it because it's not you you undo the narrative slightly of like oh well i'm not but like this person i'm playing is getting on the bus but then before you know it's like shit you got on a bus yeah you needed to act as if or whatever you needed to be deluded oh i'm a lucky girl whatever the fuck you need to tell yourself but it's like before you know it you did it yeah and i think

again how many cruxes are there here i think that is the crux of like when you can use things that sound really silly to bring some lightness and like use it as a tool to get you through whatever it is that you're dealing with yeah hard shit it sounds so it's kind of as well like i feel like i've said this before of like i find the conversation around like mental health and just the ways that we talk about it and like the ways that we articulate the things that people go through always feels kind of reductionist like the language almost feels a bit too um like incomplete or like we don't have the proper vocab to articulate exactly what everyone's going through or obviously give everyone the specific piece of information they

need or like the perfect fix the perfect cure and then it means that conversations like this that happen on the internet where loads of people are connecting over oh my god i did this lucky girl thing it's amazing you should try it blah blah blah i think it should go without saying anyone using the internet take what you see on the internet with a pinch of salt if it's if it's something that you can use sometimes to get you through a day i have no qualms with that not at all because also when you're really going through it it's almost like i mean i'm sure everyone's felt this of like i don't give a shit what gets me what it is i don't care anything dumb thing like it's mortifying i don't give a shit what it is i just need to get through the thing or like i just want to feel better if maybe being like i'm a lucky girl which to be honest is quite an embarrassing phrase

if that helps you then it fucking helps you well it's also it's embarrassing to be like i'm i'm a podcast like it was embarrassing oh i'm yeah i'm trying at something that's embarrassing for me yeah yeah i agree to try at something or try and create something of yourself that wasn't written in the rules by some someone else validating you but before you know it you've got it and if it came off the back of being delusional i'm not here to argue with that i would honestly say so many of the things that i so many of the people that i kind of look up to in life or like so many of the people that have got good things have directly said that that was built on delusion like we were talking yesterday actually i don't know why we're talking so much about being deluded yesterday which for very

straight i think we're just really deluded yes we just weren't really in it but i was saying there's roxane gay everyone knows fucking roxane gay amazing writer. She was saying that someone asked her, why, like, how did you become a writer? Like, how did you make this your life? And she was like, from an early age, I always took writing so seriously. Like, it was like, I'm going to write. Like, that's a serious thing. It's not just like, something I sometimes do.

It's like, no, this is serious. Like, I set my hours to do this and I do, I fucking dedicate and this is, I am a writer. Even when it's like, she hadn't written anything. Like, she was just writing in her fucking room which is essentially that is what writers do as well yeah yeah yeah they write in their rooms and i think we were talking about it in terms of the podcast of like we were always when we had no listeners we had zero literally big fat zero listeners and zero episodes at the time so we really sat down for like our first few episodes even throughout the whole thing we've've been like, we're recording now.

Like we really were deluded about it in the way that it's like, no one's listening. It's like we're recording our episode on blah, blah, blah, blah. And I think actually that level of delusion, we weren't there going, oh, there are millions of people listening. But we always had this weird sense of like, this is right for us. We should be doing this. Yeah. And I hate to say that i

hate to say it i actually love to say it it's fucking paid off that delusion fucking paid off big time i love to say it big time and i don't know what we i don't think to be honest yeah i don't think we would have had this like we wouldn't be sitting here right now if we hadn't have had that like almost like fierceness of like delusion at the beginning of like this is something that is like deadly serious from day one i agree i couldn't agree more in fact i think there's loads of things like that though like the kind of people that i don't know you want to start a crochet business i'm seeing some amazing crochet online at the moment if you you want to start a crochet business it's like i'm crocheting no i i've like people are

also what do you do either this little hobby i do some great crochet blah blah but secretly deep down you want to have a crochet business or you start a crochet instagram whatever it's like no i'm i'm i fucking sell crochet i think i fucking am a crochet queen i think a lot of us have been made to feel like we have to really undersell ourselves and like undermine our existence in every experience in life and really like put ourselves down never volunteer like never declare yourself to be good at something do you know i mean just like really really actually consider yourself to be a piece of shit is the only acceptable way to live and maybe then i'm

not surprised that hearing a phrase like lucky girl in turn like the validation that you get from roxane gay saying that it's just the same message coming to you in whichever like however it gets to you like harry pigeon it's not important how it gets delivered to you by podcast who knows but getting the reminder often from someone else like we we're human beings that we need support we need connection it can be really hard i think even just as young women let's say to validate ourselves or to feel confident in our abilities or to feel confident in sharing our abilities that when you get that reminder from someone else like no you can do that but maybe you could why don't you just give it a go because you're a lucky girl or. Why don't you just give it a go? Because you're a lucky girl.

Or like, why don't you just entertain the thought of like not being cringed out by this manifesting shit and go for it? Why don't you just like be a bit deluded and a bit self-obsessed and a bit annoying? Why don't you? Yeah, why don't you? Just go a bit mad for a second.

Exactly. No, genuinely. Because the alternative is you hate yourself you do nothing with your life you hate your life and you die genuinely that is the alternative that's the alternative so don't argue with me kind of plateau through life like i think if if you're not allowed to view yourself as lucky by your own thing is that i'm not allowing myself to view myself as lucky it's like the subtext is i view myself as not important yeah unlucky just like mediocre just going through life i think actually it's like why does it feel radical or embarrassing or like to be honest problematic red flag to view yourself

yeah as a lucky person it's like that does say quite a lot context all important all of this stuff but it does say a lot about how we are angry at other people and kind of she can't view herself as lucky or like the level of hate we want for ourselves and other people that someone else a girl on a tiktok video going guys view yourself as lucky immediately is like it's quite hateable thing well it absolutely is it's a huge red flag from us as a society to consider the idea of calling yourself lucky or like trying to consider yourself as lucky and positive to be like annoying and like absurd and shit and ridiculous it's just really sad it's also so warranted because there's so much shit so the juxtaposition

of like you just you can't escape at the moment i think seeing how unfair life is in real life and social media you're constantly being shown how unfair life is there is no surprise that when someone says oh i'm gonna try and like view my life quite positively it feels like a symbol of um all this privilege and like all the inequality and all the shit of course but it's also just a girl trying to get by because also i think it's kind of been mistaken a little bit for so like the word lucky i guess is implying that you are luckier than everyone else if you're lucky that implies there's an average and you're you or yourself are lucky like if everyone else not everyone can be lucky though can they if you're lucky it implies that everyone else must be less lucky than you yeah if you're like you're the lucky one i don't know it must be like by definition

if you're lucky it's saying that i'm luckier than other people because there's only so much fucking not everyone can be so much luck apparently to go around yeah if everyone's lucky it's kind of if everyone's super no one is if everyone's lucky then no one's lucky because that's the normal level of luck you can't have an inflation of luck there's only so much luck to go around you objectively can't yeah you can't just doesn't make any sense come on so i think of course it rubs people up the wrong way because it's saying i have more of this thing than you my life is better than your life it's kind of an invitation it's like guys come on board you're on you're scrolling on tiktok so i don't know who you think you are that you're like do you know i'm like she's like come on board like join me on this lucky girl journey i don't know

it's good it's bad it's a delusion exactly delusion is fun it's a currency that i have found to be quite lucrative personally incredibly incredibly or just like it it improves my life to be like i don't know if i'm going around saying i'm a lucky girl i don't know if that's the kind of language that i'm using but when i like tune into the essence of what that girl on these tiktoks and whatever is saying or what the whole lucky girl discourse is when i tune i boil that down to the essence of it the crux if you will yeah it's essentially someone saying i'm gonna try and view my my life and myself as if they're like a good things happening here yeah that's really what's happening and to be honest i am so behind that definitely what i think as well like there's a weird kind of assumption or like the kind of

rhetoric around it is that if you're delusional it means you're viewing your life positively which then implies that the reality must be that your life is negative or that you are shit yeah like almost to be delusional implies that you're seeing value in yourself and you for some reason think the reality is that you don't hold an inherent value but you know do by the way you definitely do yeah so almost like it's not a choice of being delusional or not it's like you're already being delusional by convincing yourself that you're shit the negative yeah it's just you're not even being delusional you're like you're just being shit you're just being negative yeah and also you've been encouraged to do that so like from day one really like there is definitely an underlying um in like sort of

what is it a bias towards that like you've just you've just learned that i'm sorry so i think to go the other way it does feel like rude it feels kind of dumb it feels out of touch it feels all of the stuff yeah but actually i just think i actually don't think it's that deep i really don't think it's that deep and it is deep in loads of fucking ways but really i do think the essence of it is saying i do think everyone has a small minute amount of control some people have larger amounts of control than others. Of course. Un-fucking-deniable.

Mm-hmm. But there is a small gap in everyone's life that allows you to, you can perceive it as good or bad, and it's like, the tiny things. Some things are fucking bad. Some things are fucking good.

Goes without saying, yeah. Some things can go either way. When you can strike that moment. Yeah. When you get those fleeting moments. I don't think that's terrible. Let them happen. No, I think it's great

more yeah i kind of do yeah congratulations on me bake a cake congratulations on me the people that bake cakes like that i honestly like i love you so much for doing that it's insane i want to do that i actually really want to bake a cake yeah we should do that we should do that maybe we should do it like next week when i see you the week after yeah definitely when we watch high school musical one definitely definitely sounds like a good day to me i think we've summed it up basically i just want everyone to be do you know what i want everyone to be at the moment is it was my one of the things i wrote down for my like new year's resolution like thing i want to be like quite soft with myself and others was one of the things i write

which is so pathetic to write that but i actually found it it's not it's not it's got the cringe element of the lucky girl voice in there i think like i want to just be quite soft with myself and others this year just quite like gentle and just like go with the flow and just like i'm not being hard and harsh and like at myself and other people i have a joke comes naturally that's sephia's um elsa like she gets cold as ice and so brutal and it's like one day you're gonna turn around and just have like a side braid i will i can't this braid i want it so badly exactly as soon as my hair's long enough again i'm doing um catnip's hair which would with my blonde look quite like Elsa oh my god it would be iconic but I love the soft life I think it's the only way I I have found it to be quite nice in the in the two

months that I've been doing it and I haven't really been doing it but like I think every time that I feel particularly hard which like or just like mean or something just like a nasty girl i feel like god what was that whole soft thing like let's just be soft so i think there's what was that thing i was on about a while ago that whole thing you wrote in your journal yeah yeah you wrote that in your journal yeah look at you going like i think there's been some i don't know so for example when i when i hear lucky girl i'm just like shut the fuck up and then it's like let's just be soft with this girl really what let's boil this down like what is she saying and it turns out yeah to be honest you kind of agree with this girl definitely and i think as well like choose your battles it's not um yeah i think a lot

of these conversations have us all arguing amongst each other and it's like yeah let's just like set the working class against each other or like let's just set this group against each other and it's like yeah let's just like set the working class against each other or like let's just set this group against each other let's just set these people women against each other yeah let's set women against each other rather than because if they're looking at each other they're not worried about us basically yeah i'm not worried about the fact they're getting robbed of their whole fucking lives by worrying about i've got to do my fucking skincare routine we're actually arguing about against each other going also like do you remember a long i don't know whether this is a long time ago but this was like our biggest crux with the podcast like i remember we kind of came to a point

where we were like it's kind of what we're saying of like the powers that be the men of this world the right men of this world it's very kind of strategic to it's obvious that they set women against each other in so many ways create this like impossible level of competition between women and i do think we came to a point where we were like in this space yeah the only thing like the only thing we really want is for everyone but specifically i think women to live happy good lives and not get hurt because the world is trying to hurt them big time time. Not get murdered. Not get raped. Be safe.

All of the stuff. Not hate themselves. Feel comfortable in themselves. All of this stuff. That's really the crux of it. And all these things like the lucky girl delusion. The nuances of all this stuff. It's like.

Who's wrong. Who's doing it right. It actually is just. It's just another way to waste women's time. Yeah. And now you have had 45 minutes. 45 minutes from us. Of your time wasted.

On another thing that really is just another way of women being like but you have more power than me and it's like yes it's fucked

it's absolutely fucked but it's just another way to set women against each other well look there's more time wasting where that came from I'll see you next week thanks guys

and if you don't hear from us assume the worst.