Goes Without Saying - Normalise Being Evil Ozempic Jealousy Cheating

Episode Date: January 11, 2026

podmothers sephy & wing enter the chat: spiralling on shame and internalisation, social media stalking, unspoken resentment, body-image, and selfishness. ✷ see more ✷ youtube @sephyandwing ✷ instagram @sephyandwing ✷ tiktok @sephyandwingshop ✷ www.sephyandwing.co.uk

the relationship that people have to other people's bodies, the way that we can have our own relationship with someone else's appearance. And what that means to us, if they change the way that they look, is really interesting when we're talking about things like women and, like, you know, who does your body belong to? Yeah. Intriguing. It's not that intriguing.

I'm intrigued. But it's just almost, it's one of those things that I can't. Even by acknowledging it, it makes it look like I care in this. No, but this is the thing. This is the thing. And I don't care. I don't care. But it's hard to say that.

Do you make me care? Do you, is this normal or is this mad and really freaky and sad? No, it's normal. It's normal. I think it's normal. It's normal. Don't tell me if you disagree. Goes without saying, you're listening to Goes Without Saying with Seffy and Wing.

I'm Wing. And I'm Seffy. What an amazing time to be alive. We are so. back and unpacking the dirty word of all the demonic jealousy envy feeling like you hate your friend because you want to be her maybe feeling like you hate yourself because you don't want to be her maybe I really feel like we went in a lot of different avenues but did everything justice here I feel good about this I like this episode I really hope you do too if you're

feeling a little bit kind of shameful I feel like this will help normalize and validate some of the kind of uglier emotions that just can't help but pop up sometimes. Enjoy the episode. Thank you so much for being here, sending lots of love out to you. Hello. Hello. How are you doing? Good. How are you?

Good. Good. No reverse. I was thinking earlier what we probably didn't make very clear in the last episode, that's what we're pre-recording these, that much I think was said. Yeah. But I feel like we didn't say how nice it was to have so many messages being like, where are you, can't wait. Oh my God.

Yeah, so nice. I've been posting on Instagram and everyone's been really nice. And I really like when people are a bit funny. Go on. I can't remember what it was. Someone said something and I thought, that's funny. Do you remember what it was? No.

Okay. But sometimes I just think that's a funny little clip. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, all the time. It was nice to know that people actually do give a shit that like when we don't record, there are people being like, we miss you, where are you? Like that was incredibly, incredibly nice. And when it's like we're coming back, people are like, we're cheering.

Can't wait. Cute. Thank you, everyone for being here. Thank you so much. And thank you for bearing with and just like sticking with us. And like, if you're listening to this now, thank you for just like going with that and being like, oh, they're back now. And they're so funny about it. Um, okay.

So we had like the whispers of a conversation and we were kind of like zip. Yeah. Lock that. Reload it into an episode. Um. Because this is something we've spoken about a bit, but like a fair bit. Yeah. But we kind of had the whisper of a new angle somewhere.

I just feel like this is a juicy topic. Why I always feel like it's kind of a failsafe? Because as much as it's like there's nothing new in our personal lives for us to get off of our chests. Yeah. I always think it's something so fascinating. And kind of it often goes without saying like no one is speaking about it. Not in the way that I feel like I need anyway. I feel like I'm not seeing it talked about enough

and it's jealousy, which you already know from the title probably. And a whole intro that we would have done. Yeah. But it's jealousy, guys. That's what I don't know. I just think it's a bit, it's kind of like up there with the top villains, I think. I would say is it not number one villain? Maybe.

Because we were sort of trying to be like before. We were like, what are we talking about? We were like, is it friendship jealousy? Is it social media jealousy? or is it like relationship jealousy, which one is kind of like the worst one? What is the topic we're talking about today? Because we have spoke much jealousy before, but yeah, as you were saying, it feels often like no one really speaks about it.

It definitely... There's always more to be said. The thing that we say about it all the time is like, fucking hell it feels bad when you feel jealous. Like it's the feeling that we know that everybody feels, yet at the same time, no one is allowed to speak about it because you're having to kind of admit not only like a fault in yourself, which is embarrassing, but like maybe that you've,

see something that you want in someone else, which is probably one of the hardest things that you have to do, like, a sort of this society anyway that's built around comparison would set up that thing to be the hardest thing to do, to be like, this person has a thing that I want. So no one re-talks about it, I don't think, but we were kind of, social media stuff, I feel like, is the easiest one. To talk about. To deal with, I would say. Ah, oh right, turn your phone off.

Turn your phone off. It's not like being real. Just get off Instagram. Yeah, fair enough. Block them, meet them, get them out. And it's a horrible thing that is then just made even more horrible, whereas like a friendship being made horrible or a relationship being made horrible, that feels a bit more personal.

It's almost like with the social media stuff, it's very much all in your own head and you're probably not going to ever see that girl in your real life. And like, what did you expect? Right, yeah, you're kind of asking for it, which I often am. But then in your relationship, it's like, not only have I got this thing going on in my head, but also now I kind of hate myself and my friend. Great.

Yeah. You've ruined a real thing. Oh, God, it's bad. It's so horrible, but it's so universal. This is why I'm not talking about it. Yeah, it's never ending. It's never ending stew. What's that?

I don't know what this is. I don't know if people keep saying it. I think it was something about someone made a never ending stew. Or was it never ending soup and a blinding stew? I keep getting those mixed up. What the hell are you talking about? Is that internet stuff? Yeah, but it's also people are saying it my real lie.

Blinding stew. Blinding stew is the one I keep saying. What? It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. But it is a never-ending soup of a topic to me personally. It is a never-ending soup. It's always exciting.

I'll never turn it down. Also, it just feels so private and, like, personal and raw. And I kind of feel like if you dug inside someone's journal, what percentage of that is them expressing jealousy? because I kind of feel like even your journal is a risky place to put it, but is there anywhere safe to confess that you're jealous of someone or something? Not really right now. And that's why, especially with like friendship jealousy and even like an online thing.

It's why bitching and like online hate is such a huge thing because the easiest thing to do or pretty much the only way to express this emotion that we have is to, okay, so say there's someone that I'm jealous of, the easiest way for me to process that. is to be like, oh my God, did you see her blah, blah, blah, blah, rather than be like, fuck, I felt really threatened when she did this thing. I'm going to, like, maybe look at myself and to express it that way. Never going to fucking happen. Should be happening.

It should be, but we're not allowed as women to be anything other than, like, cutesy kind all the time, super compassionate and also, like, I feel like that is... So how we were raised. No, and also kind of in this moment, there is an emphasis or like an expectation on women to be, like, fully formed, self-accepting humans in the name of feminism. And like, there is an expectation of, well, don't hate the way that you look. That's so anti-feminist of you. No, no, don't, why are you wasting time being jealous of another woman?

Like, don't you know we live in a patriarchy? Yeah. I was looking up to this influencer and she confessed that she was insecure about her bum. And I just was so disappointed. Do you know what I mean? Like, there is a kind of. judgment, like a moral judgment placed on. It is disappointing as well. I think you can be disappointed that someone that you view as beautiful doesn't like themselves. That is, I'll put my hands up,

I'm disappointed. That's quite sad because it's people that I aspire to look like in some sick way. They don't even like themselves. It's not necessarily like the pressure is on that person to love themselves and be happy with how they look. I think it just speaks fucking volumes about the sort of like impossibility of beauty that the, that we live, has been set up for us. You can never reach it. I don't think we can or should speak about right now. But like almost within the age of OZemPEC,

the kind of Monjaro girls on the internet that there's so much conversation around. I used to really look up to her and she really made me feel good about my body. And now she's changed. I don't know what you're talking about. So like almost that influences or like everyone being on OZMPIC or whatever. Yeah. And the way that that's kind of just everywhere and also online. The relationship that people have to.

other people's bodies and like how we can be i'm not i'm saying this is good or bad or anything i'm not making judgment on it just almost presenting it as like part of this thing the way that we can have our own relationship with someone else's appearance and what that means to us if they change the way that they look is really interesting when we're talking about things like women and like you know who who does your body belong to yeah but it's that's the problem of celebrities especially like women celebrities being emblems of specific things of being like this is the plus size influencer this is the feminist um singer this is even just like this is the tall blonde singer this is the short blonde singer that was taylor spina carver if you do not know i was like

got people in my head. Yeah. It's like we have emblems of people and that is the problem that then if, so you start seeing yourself as them. If you're a tall, blonde, whatever, you start yourself in Taylor's blah, blah, blah, blah. Like that is why there maybe is a little bit of a problem with women being reduced to these like cookie cutter versions of themselves. Because then they are speaking for like entire like versions of a girl that like view them, that like feel like they can't change, all of their stuff that their value is only in that one thing.

Yeah. That is where a large part of the problem comes from, especially when it comes down to things like you are a plus size singer that loses a lot of weight. Then people will critique you because you were the thing that was empowering so many people. That's complicated on so many levels. I think that's the thing. It's complicated. And what surprise, surprise, surprise, the complicated stuff demonises women always.

Women take the brunt of something complicated once again. Men don't have to be emblems. Men don't have to be emblems. They get to be themselves. don't have to form attachments to other men and cling to them like fucking lifeboats in this bizarre patriarch. It's just not the same. No. It's not the same.

It doesn't mean as much. They don't have the same relationships. They don't have the same awareness of what they look like and their value and their relationships and how they compare to their peers and all of this stuff. It's not the same. Goes out of saying. Yeah. And it's kind of what you were saying about women becoming emblems of like just stereotypes rather than like full human individuals. It made me think of this is not really relevant.

but in New Girl when there was a conversation about the two main girls having fringes, and how that was so, like, how that was so, oh my God, I can't believe they let the two of us have bangs. It must be so confusing to the audience to have two characters with brown hair and bangs, whatever. It's just like... Great look, by the way, I must say.

Beautiful, what a great look. It can't be topped. Yeah. I don't know, it's just no wonder that there's not much room to speak about something that feels so dirty. I just feel like jealousy is such a dirty word and I love a dirty word.

It is. Something really, it just feels like, like if you were to say, oh, there's this girl, I'm really jealous of my mate said this, blah, blah, blah. It just, you've got me like that. I'm in. It's just like. It's because it's just so in the dark.

It's so fucking in the dark. Like I can probably count on one hand the amount of times that someone has like, that I've had that conversation, really. of someone being like, I'm really jealous of this person and like going into it. That's not a conversation I've had that many times. No, I said publicly on this podcast, I'm really jealous of Moyer. Do you remember?

Which actually is not that personal. That's so interesting. Because you never said the name. I did. I did say the name because I think about it often. No, no. You're thinking of someone else that I didn't say the name. Okay.

Intrigan because I remember you saying that you were really jealous of this girl. An influencer and you wouldn't say the name. I'm still jealous of her and I still won't say the name. But I will say moya because it feels. light-hearted it. And that's the thing. Even that I'm ranking my, it's like, I'm jealous of more in a way that I look at her and I think can't be topped. Like that's, I mean,

that's perfect piece. That's, that's a perfect piece. Peace. As in a masterpiece, not like a side piece. Yeah. Yeah. That's a perfect thing that I'm looking at. And I wish. And that, and that feels okay to throw away basically because I was thinking. Because it's not deep. It comes back to haunt me and I think,

a bit weird maybe that I vocalise that. And I think it's okay. It's all right. I can vocalise that. Whereas if it's the other girl that you said I didn't name, that fucking stings. It cuts and I won't speak about it. Yeah. I can't.

I struggle, I think, to be jealous of people on social media. That's good. I don't. And how have you managed that then? Well, I don't follow any influences, I don't think. Like, my feed is not, um, my feed is very, um, binary in terms of like people that I know or celebrities that I love. Same.

Whereas influencers has a, there's such a middle ground because it's like, okay, so there's like a, they just exist in the, they're normal people that live, like their businesses in creating a life that looks attainable but is unattainable. That's obviously the whole job. And that is a dirty business in my mind, but also love the vibes. But like that, that isn't what I'm seeing so much. So I don't necessarily have like a load of people. Or like I don't have like people that I'm like, okay, that, I don't know, I just don't really, it's either people that, like, I only really follow people that like truly. I'm like, yeah, vibes, like not.

I don't follow that many people. It's not even about following them. But they're getting you on the explore page. I can see them, though. They're everywhere. They don't come to me on the explore page. They do. My TikTok has got this specific thing.

Oh, well, I can't even. Let's say this girl is called. Any name. Sabrina Carpenter. Let's call her any name. Any name. So I have a little look on any name and I think, fuck me. And then I keep looking just a little bit longer.

That's what. The most human thing to do. 60 to 90 seconds here, so sue me. I hold my hands up. I saw something I thought it's interesting. Maybe I took a peek at the captions in the comments. Big deal. Two days later, any name has posted.

You checked out their post previously. Want to take a look? You're on my home screen. Of my phone. I'm not on the app. You came to me and you said, Erin Amaralee, Cooey, come take a peek at my fine wets. And I, on a weekday, fine.

Yes, I clicked. I clicked. Of course you do. And I've reinforced it. And now in two days time, any name comes back to me. I can't help it. But also, you're only doing what it's designed to do as we know. Right.

Like, it's not like you're going against the grain there. You're very much flowing with the river that it's laid out for you. Yes. Yes, I know. Of course you do. I know. I have just recalled a time. Yeah.

I've just recalled a horrible experience almost of you doing the saying the thing of like, oh, and you clicked. I don't think I've even spoken to you about this. What? Did I tell you that I looked at the guy that I used to date's Instagram. Who? He's got a new girlfriend. Who? If I said, well, I'll say to you this needs to get caught.

Wow. Okay. So the big is a big one. It's a big name. Instagram official, hey? It's a big name, you know. Okay. And what was so...

Well, that means a sour taste for me, personally. Well, what was crazy? Okay, so that's nothing to me. Did she look like you? I haven't spoken to this guy in what two years. Oh yeah, forget it, forget it. That's fine to me. The thing that was fucking crazy.

And this is why it's like, look, the clicking is inevitable, but the things that cause me jealousy are the things that, like, feel a little bit more like, okay, that's actually about me. Go on. Okay, so, oh, God, I don't know. So when I was there? When was there? This was like, this was like honesty when I lived in my old house.

This was like three months ago. Fuck me. Yeah, there's ages ago. Okay, okay. Because I don't feel anything about it, but I do think it's just like social media is a fucking dangerous game. Especially when it's your real life is like coming to you in this weird way. It's like things I shouldn't know. This guy lives in a different country, for example.

I have a really similar, not similar, but like I have a really funny thing. I can't wait. A similar thing in this. I can't say it on here, but. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Intriguing.

It's not that intriguing. I'm intrigued. It's just almost, it's one of those things that I can't even. even by acknowledging it it makes it look like I care in this way this is the thing and I don't care I don't care but it's hard to say that

do you make me care it's not convincing is it also I do care in that this person was a big deal to me in my life and also God it's a very near miss yeah so this person is not in my life in any way don't wish him great vibes like whatever didn't work out between us

yeah we were on holiday together and there was this moment where kind of was a moment in my life where I realized this is not going to work. We're having two different experiences, which was a moment where we stood by like this water. And I was like, okay, so this is going to be like a bit of a romantic moment. We're like sitting by the water in the evening. And instead of saying something romantic, I don't know if I've told this on the podcast before, he said, I used to think Katie Perry was really hot. Do you remember this?

Yes. That was what he chose to say instead. And I thought, oh, okay, so I've written a narrative. Because if he was on the same page as me, that would not have been said in that moment. That kind of speaks volumes to me. Yeah. Okay, cool. I go on his page.

Two years ago thing. He's not relevant in my life at all. No. But wish him well. Go on his page. I'd type in his name. Fully typed in. I don't follow him anymore.

Okay. So before we even keep going, what came over you then in that moment? I genuinely think I was like, I wonder how he is. Okay. Wonder how he is, wonder what's going on. Mm. Wouldn't be the first time I've done that in two years. I know, I know.

Goodness me. That's just a normal, like to. Just, you know, I would like to see. Just checking in. Not something I do that regularly, but what, I've done that? Well, it is intriguing sometimes, isn't it? Sometimes you think wonder what's going on in your life. Yeah, but just, you know, how's it going on that downhill slope you're on?

I know. From your interaction. with me. Like, you know, how's the fall from heaven, honey? No, it wasn't. We're just adding to the character law here of this individual. Yeah. I thought, wonder how this dude is doing.

Went on his thing. Picture of a girl. Picture of a girl. I click. Well, just her on her own? No, it was just like a photo of like... Of them? No, not of them, but like, it was sort of like,

oh, I literally didn't. Like, her having a drawing. or something. Oh, right. So I was like, okay, I can click. Yeah. Just intrigued to see what's going on. Your sister looks different. Do, is this normal or is this mad and really freaky and sad? No, it's normal. Normal. I think it's normal. It's normal. Don't tell me if you disagree. Clicked on the girl. She looks like you. No, looks nothing like me. Okay. She is blonde there when I was blonde at the time. So, okay. I was like, okay, fine. All right, fine. I would have been devastated if she did look like me now.

because I bet God you just I really, it's just almost like, we can't have two characters with brown hair bangs. You don't love me now. Right. So there's a photo that she posts of them standing by the water. The same fucking scene, basically. It is literally, it's in the city. No.

No. But it's in the city. Yeah, yeah, yeah, where he lives city. By the water, romantic moment. And it was just really one of those things of being like, okay, is that like. You saw water with her. great almost did you talk about Katie Perry then maybe did you say I think Katie Perry's hot did you say that then no but wait can we say the bit where he made it better by saying I don't

think she's hot anymore after she cut her hair and became a mother but he did say but he did say it was important I went I clearly what said did some weird reaction and was like okay fucking fine and then he said not anymore though and it's like that's worse yeah that's so much worse. So that was that. Well, he's out there somewhere. So I do find jealousy on social media, but it's just not influences the student. I mean, it's girls I've never met. No, but sometimes it's not even influences. It's just, it's just beautiful girls.

No, but she wasn't a beautiful girl. No, no, no, I don't mean her. I mean for me. She wasn't beautiful. Sorry. But she was a beautiful girl. But my point is, I'm not jealous of her beauty. I'm jealous of the moment that she got that I would have wanted. Totally. That's what it was. And I completely.

You're inside the scene I constructed in my mind. Yeah. You got it. And I got a weird fucking... But you did choose to not even, you know, this is not your boyfriend. This is a scrap, essentially. We can minimise. We can minimise.

But also it was a big, it was a big deal. It was a big deal. It was a big deal. But just like, like, you didn't want him. And I want to make that way. But I didn't want him after the action. Like, I did want him until... There were a load of actions that made that meant I didn't want him.

And that was a real point. That was like one of the cementing decisions of like, ah, okay. It wasn't just that because that's actually also not that bad. But it was just a long succession of weird things. No, but it feeds into a bigger thing, doesn't it? There were so many weird things. But these things happen.

Yeah, these things happen. I'm dying to hear what your one was. What, the silly thing. On air. Oh, God. It just makes it. It's almost like, am I writing a book about this? It's almost, if I didn't have a podcast, no, but in the way of like, if we didn't have a podcast

and whatever, it could be something that I mentioned in passing to one or two friends. Totally. Yeah. But all of a sudden, it's like, this meant so much to you, hey, that you came to the pod and said, I wouldn't mind saying that in front of a microphone. But I also think that's the lesson of having a podcast. Like, for example, that moment did not mean that. I almost forgot I did it because I haven't mentioned it to you since it happened.

No, yeah. But suddenly with the microphone, things start coming out, you know? Like, suddenly got things to say. It doesn't mean you think about it every night. No, definitely not. But isn't that funny when sometimes it feels like almost the medium of which you deliver information adds to the level of important. It's like the difference between a text and a voice note or a fucking, if it's like, I need to say this on FaceTime versus like in person we break up. Like the medium is so integral to.

It's like when we see a transcript of the episode, it's like, whoa, in written, it's saying. doesn't come through it doesn't don't quite right. And I hope that isn't how it comes off yeah allowed yeah um I'll tell you off air okay on that okay I'll look forward to that this is almost don't it's actually I couldn't tell you how nothing it was it it just yeah if you knew it too much for a podcast too little for real life I kind of get it it's totally nothing but it's just the kind of thing where it's too recognizable yeah and it is just not worth that okay yeah not worth the risk yeah um okay I'm liking where the this is going. Yeah. I do think it's interesting thinking about when jealousy feels the worst.

It is. Like in terms of is it worth, like we were having just before we started the conversation of is it worse in a relationship? Is it worse with your friends? Like romantic jealousy versus like feeling jealous of a friend. Yes. I think it is here was my take before we've recorded. I don't know. I could be swayed either way. I think it's worse with a friend because with a romantic thing you're expecting that feeling to come up like you're expecting okay so we've made this weird deal that there's two of us and there's no one else there's no like which i there's more scope to acknowledge it as well yeah and it's also like that is part of a healthy relationship feeling that it's almost quite romantic and like obviously in a fucked way we've romanticized like that feeling of like possessiveness and like oh my god he

felt jealous when this person spoke to me whatever the fuck all of that you do that way it's stunning yeah but that there is that and also then there like the horrible um i don't want to be the one feeling jealous obviously but also there's a bit of it that's like it's not but it also kind of is it's a part of the it's normal it's normalized in a different way yeah i was just listening just before we recorded to dojicat um is it called jealous type oh my god i think it sounds just like that it's like there's a it's it's a it's a normal thing to be jealous in relationships that's fine obviously there are uh there's it can you know whatever there's the spectrum to it.

You don't want to be feeling it too much, but there is space within that. Whereas with friendships, it's like there's only certain ones that kind of trigger that. It's not... And also, you better keep that to yourself. You better work on your own.

Psycho. It doesn't feel... It doesn't feel like there's room to discuss that, really. Unless you're bringing up, like, you have to be pretty close, really. I think, for your friendship to be able to bear that weight, almost of something that, like, how are we going to navigate that?

It's specific one, isn't it? I don't know the last time I was jealous of a friend if I really think about it. Let me think. It's almost like when I was younger, I have like more stories of like, oh, like almost like my people from school that I'd be like. But it was always always more in like a, like a, yeah, like a competitive way, I think. I think it can come out like in like if it's like someone got a promotion that you wanted. But it's different. It's not your friendship.

Because are we talking about as well? There are different levels of almost your comparing. yourself to your friend? Yeah. Or is it almost being jealous of your friend's closeness with somebody else? That is. The implication of, yeah, go on.

That is the difference between jealousy and envy, that whole thing, which I know you don't like. I know you don't like, but that is the definition of that. So jealousy is that feeling of possessiveness that you are looking at what they have, so you're wanting your best friend to be your, you want it to be like mutual. If they get a new best friend, you want to like keep them. yourself that's jealousy envy is that feeling of comparison that's like oh I want the thing that they have they are different so I like I do think that envy is more normalized than that feeling

of jealousy yeah I agree because that's quite tough when it's like especially in a friend that feels like way more of a relationship-y thing yeah so the idea that you could be like it's just more pleasant isn't it to if I was if I were to say to you I'm really jealous of your friend any name because she gets to see you all the time there's a an implication of love there that I have for you. Whereas if I say I'm really jealous of your brown hair bangs, there's an implication of hate, resentment. Yeah.

Do you know what I mean? Like one of them carries a sense of like, well, you just love me so much that you want me all to yourself. But the other one is like, you love me so much you hate me. Like you resent me. Like you don't like my brown hair bangs anymore. You actually, it's a dislike. Yeah.

And that's more grim. And it's impossible to admit, especially as a young woman when it's like, you just, I mean, when did you ever, when did anyone ever say to you growing up? Tell me quickly that it was okay to feel something ugly towards someone that you love. Never. Never. Yeah, never. And it is kind of the thing of as well, we have so many thoughts in the day.

Like thousands, hundreds of thousands, millions maybe. I don't know that I'm bad. It's a lot. It's a lot. Most of them are not true. It's not your belief. It's not a reflection of anything accurate in your life. And I think some part of it has to be a normalization of like, things are going to come.

up sometimes and it doesn't mean anything more than a passing moment sometimes. No, it's so true. Yeah, because I've redownloaded Headspace. Oh, yes. I've been in a meditating zone recently. And I've been doing this like one of the courses on there. And it like for so long it has been getting me to like do the noting technique where it's like you're breathing and then you're every time you have a thought you have to be like thinking.

Yeah. Or every time you get distracted by like a feeling. feeling and you're just sort of labelling as it goes. Yeah. And the whole point of the exercise, I'm on like day 10 of it now. Like it's just been so fucking boring just doing that. But it's like you just need to get like comfortable with doing that really. Because the whole point is like separating yourself and your thoughts.

And my dad would always say to me like he always always always says you are not your thoughts. You are not your thoughts. Like it just always says it to me. And I'm always like, what the fuck does that mean? Or like, yes, okay, I can be separate from my thoughts. my thoughts are still ruling my life. Oh, yeah. Like, these thoughts are no longer thoughts, their beliefs that drive me in certain ways.

Yeah. Like, it's all very well being like, yeah, okay, I know they're not me. But it is that thing of being like the classic headspace thing of the cars passing on the fucking road. Level one. Middle of the motorway. What am I doing here? Why am I sat here in the fucking, what's called? Cold shoulder?

Hard shoulder. A hard shoulder. Yeah, I'm giving you the cold shoulder. On the hard shoulder. Watching the fucking the cars are thought, being like thought, thought, thought, whatever the fuck. Like, it does change your mind so much when you do realise, okay, so there is this sort of like space behind that where I am like able to like point at them. Like they're not, they can't be me because I'm literally being like, oh, there's one. And beyond it, yeah, yeah.

And in the same way that you might have that thought of whatever, I'm jealous of her, I want her brown hair bangs. you can at the same time offer something completely the opposite and decide which one you could put time into believing. And also this is why back to the emblems, women operating as emblems, of the idea that there can only be one girl with the brown fringe or there can only be one girl that is, she's the pretty one, she's the clever one, she's the bitchy one, she's the fashion one, she's the science one,

whatever the fuck. Like those ideas that we've been working, it with for like so long our whole lives for sure and maybe like our parents whole lives if not further back that like stereotypical views of what a woman can be it does make you feel like there's only room for one of each type so i've got to set myself aside and be this kind of one or like oh my this is why we get messages like from people being like oh my sister has always been highly academic and i'm not it's like is that true or were you just divided like that and you've built that narrative that she's the academic one and you're this one there is room for two clever girls here

there is room for two pretty girls whatever there needs to be there's there is to be realistically there is there is there actually is but then also well of course on planet earth there is but then also in things like in terms of opportunities it's extremely limited and especially for things like if you're looking at like tokenism and like there's only room we're only going to take you know like you're the one black girl that we're going to take into this project or you're the one plus size girl that we're going to take into this project. It's like we think that these spots are limited because we've been shown that they're so limited. They're like limited to non-existent throughout our whole lives.

Like of course we all. Well, those things are different because it's like that's a systemic issue of like there is one spot that is being given. Which then feeds the thing of the, it's not only just comparison at that at that level. It's actually just like a competitive. Yeah, but I think it is just inherently competitive as. well just to be a woman in the sense that it's almost like women can't be sloppy in the same way that a man could or whatever it's like say like I'm doing a panel show and I want experts for men one woman just you know yeah just to keep everyone off my back yeah like these sports are in it it is systemic

it is like there's a longevity here of like hundreds of years telling us that it's scarce yeah women is fucked up even in like a yeah it's just mental no it is funny that like the idea of like yeah competition basically with our friends and like the women around us is built into like yeah literally kind of DNA yeah and it has been for men as well just in terms of like finding a mate just sort of like aiming for the top one the one that can protect your kids whatever all of that scarf they do but they've also got to like it's like a man could impregnate a woman every day for the rest of his life as in like you know like the the implication that no it's completely different it's men are not like you know yeah that that that sort of it like it is built into them in a certain way

but it is obviously completely different it's about masculinity and like survival of the fittest and like proving that you're also it will be to protect themselves exactly from the men that are going to kill them and all of this stuff it's entirely different yeah it's still like you know there's patriarchy everywhere but like who's taking the brunt that it's completely different and like the most horrific thing that that has done is turn women against other women like there's nothing like that is just the saddest thing Jesus Christ like also it's so it's so fucking shit when you see like for example that really playing out like even taking workplace stuff out of it but like two girls I actually don't think this ever happened to me but I've seen it happen before where it's like two friends that then suddenly fancy the same guy it's full it's fucking horrible what that does. Like, it's just basically, it triggers some, like,

it must be biological thing. And also just this idea that, yeah, the top spot is like a scarce thing and you've got to fucking fight to get it. But it does turn people quite crazy. I'm always very grateful when I have a different type to my friends because I always think, like,

would not want that to happen to me. That's gross. Bad. That's really gross. Also, like, some of my, like, guy friends have there was one that I had a fucking massive go out because I actually feel like this is so horrific there were two best friends and he was friends with them both was seeing one of them and then slept with the other one and I just thought you don't know

what you've done there actually like that's just like oh I didn't know which one I liked and I was like you know seeing which one I like more hanging out with them both blah blah blah but it's like you don't know yeah what the inside of their journals look like right now because they're not about you, they're about their friends, that you're turning, you're making two women that love each other competitive with each other. When the weather cools down, Golden Nugget Online Casino turns up the heat.

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situation where you had to put your own needs before mine and you did and that hurts and now we can't unsee that. Bye. Do you know what one of my least favorite phrases is? People say this all the time before they cheat on someone. Okay. They say it all the fucking time. Like I have friends that cheeses on people before and they've said this phrase. Also, you know me, Harry. I'm listening to, I'm watching Maiden Chelsea day and day out. Yeah. I hear it all the time. So I know this as I as a fact, people say this before they cheat to their friends. They say, oh, and I've got to be selfish for once. I've just got to put me first for once.

For once. They always, always, always fucking say. I think I've just got to be selfish here. 25-year-old man lives in a beautiful home. His mum's still cooking him, spaghetti bowl and a day tonight. So I've got to be selfish for once. Literally, they all say it. But the girls I know have also said it as well.

I think it's a real, like, the girls that are cheated. It's like, if you catch yourself saying that phrase, I've just got to put myself first for once. I've just got to be selfish for once. I think that might be a slight flag, like an alarm bell ringing, that you're about to hurt someone and you're trying to justify it. Because I don't think there ever is an excuse for being selfish. I don't think that it is, I don't think that is an excusable behaviour.

And there's a better way to do it than the way you're about to do it. I think if you're saying that phrase. I think as well, like a lot of people probably do feel like, it is kind of, well, it's totally a symptom of for women as well, particularly like living your whole life for other people and in service of and never even acknowledging like what you might actually want or like the awareness of like being able to validate how you feel about something it kind of makes it just makes perfect sense doesn't it that you spend your whole life denying that you could ever want or need anything and then having a kind of brink of a moment

where someone gave you attention and you thought fuck it yeah i just need to be selfish for once this guy wants to fuck me let's go like it happens very naturally definitely but I think like yes I can like totally that's of course how things work that yeah you've been denying your needs for like in one scenario but that is sort of what like I almost think like that's the classic tale hey or like for example most commonly when women cheat or like when most men cheat it will be like out of impulse and like a sexual desire and just like they feel entitled to do that whereas often when women cheat it's because they've been denying their needs and like performing for a long time. time and they enter into like an affair essentially with like quite a lot of like awareness of the fact they're doing it that it's never just like a slip up or it's most commonly not a slip up it's like a very premeditated build up of things yeah i have more sympathy for women obviously wanting to be selfish but i don't um i have heard it one too many so many times actually where people say like i've just got to be selfish for once it's like maybe don't be i think it's a symptom of never is

that you didn't acknowledge what you wanted incrementally for the past six months and now look I think that's the problem. You got your knicks in a toss. Or like we were having this conversation back in fucking June, you know? Like we were building towards this. Yeah, yeah, it was kind of obvious. We were setting the stone. We set the, yeah.

We're going to wait till it all blows up. You could just do it nicely. Sometimes you do, but you know, sometimes let's aim to be nice and communicative. Totally. And let's aim to validate what you were feeling when you felt it first. Definitely. That has the priority actually. And also that's a fucking tall order.

Like it's hard to know how you're feeling. Like so hard. But I do think that's like number one aim. I just do love the jealousy chat. It's a tough one. Do you remember I said, I think we've had this conversation before. I was like I'm more jealous than other people.

I think everyone will think that though. No, because some people are quite good. In terms of as well, like, you know, some people are not jealous. I know it. I see it. I see it. Do you? I'm so posh.

I see it. Yes, I see people be like, I mean, this is maybe more in a sexual sense, but like the idea of someone else having sex with someone that I like. That's horrific. It's absolutely repulsive. Apphorrent. To me. Whereas for a lot of people, it's like, I could entertain that for, you know, a moment. Like, do you know what I mean?

There are arenas that other people are playing in that I can. not even it and it's not cute it's not cute and i mean i'm the jealous type it's like i'm going to murder children in your family and now look what i've said it's not likable it's not cutesy jealousy before you know it you're saying crazy things about like well how's your relationship with your mom because i might kill her it's it's so it's deathly and is that not just what jealousy is i think it's like maybe to its full i mean i like to turn things up full volume i'll take to its final conclusion. I think it is horrible.

Like it's not a nice thing. Like it objectively is not a nice thing. Like it's not like yeah, you can do a little doja song about it and it's cute. But like what she's singing about is horrible. It's awful. It's basically it includes it's an umbrella term for insecurity, not feeling good enough,

thinking that other people have what you are going to get what you want. It's horrible. That's my hometown. Yeah, literally. I'm from there. Yes, that's me. That's where I'm at. That's my arena.

That's why I'm operating from. No, it's awful. It's awful. But my instincts, I think, are very, I'm a very comparative. Like, I just, I can't. Yeah. My mind goes there very easily. I can be.

Like, it truly depends on the, like, season of my life almost. Like, there definitely are. And also, like, the certain things bring it out so much. So much. But like, also it's one of those things that you don't notice the absence of. Like I think in this conversation, like, and when we were like, okay, we're going to talk about jealousy. I think I am not in a jealous, like, period of my life. I think I do feel pretty, like, confident and, like, my, like, body image stuff is, like, kind of under control at the moment.

Like, I feel kind of good generally about myself. So I'm not necessarily, like, feeling it, like, jealousy is not, like, at the forefront of my life. It definitely has been at certain times. and like insecurity, all of that stuff. But I think the kind of sick thing about jealousy is that you don't realize when you're not feeling it. Like it's not like I'm... You never know when it's around the corner. No, you definitely don't know.

You never know. But it's not something that's like, because we don't speak about it, you don't think of it as oh, it's something that I struggle with or blah blah blah. So you're not really noticing. Oh yeah, I'm not feeling that in the moment. Until you talk about it's like, oh yeah, that actually is not like a driving factor or like that doesn't feature in my daily life at the moment. but there was no acknowledgement of that. But just like, what the fuck is that?

Right. That thing that I have experienced, where the fuck was the, you know. Someone's like, why don't even fucking tell me? You're not feeling jealous at all. You should be, you're, like, that should have been. Right. And there should have been some kind of bodily announcement to me at that. Some sort of celebration, fanfare.

I don't know, but like almost, it's not, I think it's just kind of like quite nice to acknowledge. Oh yeah, that's not really, it's not really a factor right now. It's not where I'm at for now. very much for now for now give it a week it could be in time anything is possible in time it shall come it always does it's just like an invisible presence

almost like it's and then it very much announces itself quite loudly has anyone ever thought it's the thief of joy before truly has anyone ever said that because it truly is it actually is it kind of is though it is when you think about it

yeah they were on something all right it feels weird to be back doesn't wasn't it? Did you like that? No. Oh, no. It's not that I didn't like that.

I think I've been talking shit. I have not been used to having this back. Okay, I'm sorry to hear that because I thought that was really fun. Well, I think when you hear it back, you'll be like, this is good. But you're having a moment of jealous. Come on. No, not. I'm not jealous of our old hebs, I wouldn't say, but I am definitely thinking.

I had a bit of a moment earlier. but Cephy made a reel about fruit winders. Yeah, yeah. And I didn't tell you this. I guess it was just one of the thoughts that I thought, not relevant, rush it away. But I said, I message saying fruit winder, ha ha, because I just saw the title like,

what I come through on the thing that said it had been downloaded. And I was like, oh, interesting. And then you said, yeah, it's just a silly little thing, but you made a funny joke. Yeah. And I thought, she thought I made a funny joke. Yeah. So then I thought, let me sit down and watch this thing.

and I watch it and I thought when's a funny joke coming up but anyway it made such a funny joke what I said chew me down swollen me up I don't know well okay so it's literally like it's just like a short reel of us talking on the podcast um we're talking about fruit winders then wing says I feel like a screwed up front fruit winder just shovel me in or something like I just thought it's like it's quite funny it's not I'm not saying um hilarious someone should write that down but I'm saying yeah that's a little bit of funny something I know I

liked that. Well, more so just my thought was, she thought you made a funny joke. Yeah, I did. I thought I was going to say in that clip, I feel like a frub, chew that, rip the heads off and suck their guts out. Because I do love that one when we do that. Yeah, so good. That was all. Just sometimes I think about Yeah, I think it's just, when you compliment me, they land, basically. Good, okay, good. Well, I just think it's also like, it's hard to see yourself objectively, like, in terms of the funny joke and in terms of me being like, that was trash and by that I mean everything you've just listened to for the last 40 minutes oh I liked it though I thought that was really interesting good I just don't am I giving signs to say otherwise no no no it also it's um I think it's just getting used to like getting back to it

hearing yourself talk like I just thought like am I talking shit but I was going to say this is so the meat and potatoes of the episode this is my favorite the last three minutes where we start unpacking what just happened for the past four five minutes this is isn't my favourite, genuinely though. Is it? I like that. Yes, yes. It's a kind of, um...

Because it's almost like, forget all that shit though. What the hell? Would you experience together? It's very much like holding hands across the fire of like the ayahuasca has calmed down. And now we're like, how was that for you? What just happened? I almost think it's a bit like, um, not an aperitif, but what's the drink you'd have at the end of a meal?

Yeah. It's kind of the... It's kind of the... It's just like a little coffee at the end of the meal. I like that. Just like, how was that? I love that bit. Post-credit scene.

It's not, but... Yeah. Yeah, yeah, post-credit scene. I like that. Okay, fine, fine. I'll go. I'll go. Well, thanks.

Thank you so much. And if you don't hear from us, if you don't hear from us, assume the worst. Assume the worst.