Goes Without Saying - off the record: admitting you're wrong, ageing, pretty privilege & taylor swift

Episode Date: October 23, 2022

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The animal kingdom is queer and we are a part. Find a field guide to gay animals on Spotify, Apple. Or wherever you get your podcasts. ACAST helps creators launch, grow, and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast.com It goes without saying you're listening to Goes Without Saying with Sefi and Wing. I'm Sefi. And I'm Wing. And this is an episode of Off The Record.

It's actually quite a long episode of Off The Record. But because we go in, in, in. We really take our time with these questions. We speak about Taylor Swift, Midnights. We talk about, which we actually haven't heard yet. It's not out yet. No. We talk about how to admit when you're wrong

and friendship and relationships and all of that stuff. We talk about potatoes it's basically a classic episode of off the record and if you like stephanie wing which i hope you do because you're listening you'll like this so enjoy beautiful um hi everyone hi everyone this is an off the record episode because we're both feeling quite cozy and just like yeah put it this way when stephy answered my facetime i took one look at her and i said i might cry and then burst into tears i hadn't said a word yet like properly sobbing so that's the vibe and then you were like it's objectively funny it's objectively funny and i was like yeah i'm not arguing with that it is funny

but also are you okay it's equally funny and concerning it is funny but it's also worrying it was funny it was funny they taught me for no reason i'm just coming on my period i think that's more so yeah um it was the ovaries talking literally we know the vibes we know the vibes inside out we've both got hot water bottles now you've got your head wig and i've got one with an owl on that my grandma gave me kind of the little version of the headwick you know that video of lady gaga which says top shop is fine too or whatever no i don't know that this girl was wearing a floral dress i think and then lady gaga's like oh i wore florals it was by x y and z designer yeah and the guy's like oh mine's top shop and she says well top shop is lovely too yeah i remember this i have seen this well

your head your um water bottle is lovely too it's from the factory shop that my grandma got me nice no that that has an owl it's an owl i think the owl is wearing a christmas hat oh i'm all over it i'm so festive these days it's wearing a christmas yeah i love it and it's wearing a scarf a little scarf and the hot water bottle has got a yellow ribbon around it it's really um it's quite formal it's really what your grandma would get you i love that i love that i want this episode to just be hot water bottle vibes no different to any of the other episodes really yeah literally that's the energy i'm needing 100 i'm so in for that so should we go straight in yeah let's get some questions going considering the last episode

we literally forgot to read any questions yeah it's really bad this i will say actually there have been so many good messages and questions today oh my god so many pretty much every single one has been about taylor swift though should we say yeah should we start with that obviously i'm screaming crying perfect storms over midnights like i'm actually really i'm actually quite stressed i'm coming in with actually a bit of negative energy i need to get that out i need to not be like that i'm stressed over the tour i'm stressed over or a potential tour i know she's doing a uk show i just i get quite serious all of a sudden yeah it because it's just it takes up a lot of my brain um but i'm i already know i think it's my favorite album of hers hasn't heard a single peep from it it's not out yet it has leaked you think i'm fucking listening

to a leak i'm not listening no no when i saw that also we're not giving anything away but i think we might be listening to it together for the first time i think yeah let's just say you might be getting a little something from us a gift from us a gift from taylor swift to us and then we're re-gifting it re-gifting second hand second hand gift it's very sustainable um in an exciting new format some may say yeah who knows that's really fun isn't it maybe not what you're expecting but maybe exactly what you're expecting who knows who knows what we're doing let's hope it all goes well i'm touching wood on this yeah same but yeah i was thinking if you fucking listen to the league i'll be so

could you imagine no i wouldn't i would never i would never i knew you wouldn't i would um we were talking on the phone about it the other day and i was saying because i i'm a fan of taylor swift but i'm not um like i loved folklore i liked folklore you you know i missed the moat i missed the the moat i missed the boat on evermore i missed the moat it's like you jumped into like the ground i missed the mo it's like you jumped into like the ground i missed the mo it's real like i'm in a game of thrones castle yeah yeah um but i missed the boat whenever more but i like i really really like her but i'm not like crying fans over her yeah i'm really excited fans over her yeah i'm really excited but you will be accompanying me to a show correct i am more than happy to come to a show but i don't want to take a ticket away from someone that loves it do you know what i mean oh god well i don't like the sound of that i i 100%

would come but i don't know almost in the sense that like the only thing i can compare it to is like how scared i was for the film right yeah of like i needed that to be good like my month kind of was ruined my life had a sad note because of that film right yeah i really wanted that to be good and i was scared for it and all of the stuff i wanted to go see on my own all of the stuff um for the first time and then see it again blah blah um almost the stakes being really high um and I know I don't know I'm just I'm scared that my reaction is gonna let you down no no I I just want to make it clear that my reaction is going to be probably quite a lot and actually why i suddenly let loose and talk about taylor swift so much in this podcast is because i funny enough actually something i can see on our spotify

stats it says what everyone else is listening to i can't like you guys love that yeah i can't see exactly like oh my god on tuesday the third you listen to my tears ricochet 50 times what happened yeah but like it just says people who listen to you also listen to and top of the list is taylor swift right now which is by fucking so many cool people it's like yeah followed by fucking billy eilish yeah olivia rodrigo and harry styles doja always doja always iconic yeah really iconic but i feel like it's a really safe space for me to come in and be like guys karma like blah blah blah like could go a bit crazy over taylor swift and i think a lot of people um if

you don't have someone who is crying over taylor swift in their life it's quite a nice to come and find it on the internet so i'm definitely feeling that with people who listen um so i'm excited that people who listen are also excited about midnights but i don't give a shit that you're not going to be i don't want you to ever shed a tear i'm also i'm going to be a bit embarrassed i think at my reaction so i just want some support okay i know also yeah i'm more than happy to support also i i really like her yeah this is the thing i really like her i just think in comparison to you it will look like i'm her worst enemy it's almost like i actually really like her why does the girl on the left absolutely hate her guts i like her no no you do you have positive feelings i've got oh my god

big time possible um positive feelings like you also did send me a text that actually made me really emotional. You were like, I've been really Taylor Swift-ing in preparation. I have been. And I was like, that actually really makes me cry. What are your favourite Taylor Swift works then, can I ask? Well, I really, really, really love the song Cardigan. I really like that. I really like August as well.

I thought you were really into The One. I really like that i really like august as well i thought you were really into the one i really like the one i can just really picture where i was when i listened to that first i was in the tesco's and i really was in the tesco's being like walking around like the vegetable aisle so good so i've got positive feelings i love that yeah i'm excited yeah and i loved all too well 10 minute version oh god goes without saying why i love all too well is like all too well was always a song that i just felt like she just did that for me like it was just just between us did the love of their main music i thought that was just between me and her so when it was well i'm used

to it now but almost it was an adjustment for me to be like oh right let other people have heard that song like that wasn't just something that was just between taylor and i it wasn't in a void it wasn't in the void no but i think that was so special about that song because it was like it was really it was just a deep cut of the album it wasn't like the single or anything it was just the fans who listened to it me included knew that that was objectively a special song a hit a hit how how stunning is that like that's what i really really think is special about to be honest it's really special about like audio content so i'm putting the podcast in there as well but like

as in like songs and things that you listen to through your headphones and like on your own and wouldn't necessarily be listening to in a club or anything like that there's not an audience i mean i'm not opposed but yeah put this on the speakers the love of their mate oh i mean the podcast like can i request a song if you don't hear from us without saying um but it's like you get this personal relationship where it you are kind she is essentially just singing to you she's serenading yeah she is hits every time well i hope you lot will have listened to it by now. So I hope you're enjoying it. Yeah. God, I'm really excited, actually.

I can't wait. Really fun. Really fun. God, I'm really excited for what we're going to do as well. Not putting any hints on that. I can't wait. No, I really, really can't wait. I can't wait. And I'm really excited for the album.

Like, I'm really needing a new album in my life. New lease of life. Yeah, I'm excited. For my little sister's birthday did i tell you oh yeah i did tell you this yeah she was seven and we got her the harry's house vinyl just because my dad has all the fucking shit and we were like let's get her a vinyl um they got her the harry's house one and she fucking loved harry styles or she well she loved him anyway but it was so funny when i saw her recently i was trying to explain to her that he was like she'd never heard of one direction and i was trying to explain that

he was in a boy band and like we were playing all the like old music videos to her that she'd never seen and there was one that's really sweet where he covers like his nipples and she's like why did he cover one down there and my friend said oh he has three nipples and she's like why did he cover one down there and my friend's like oh he has three nipples and she bought it my little sister's like we were out for dinner later like we'd all forgotten about it and she was like why does harry have three nipples she was still mulling on it mid dinner she's like eating her pepperoni pizza like why does he have three nipples it's such a fair question she loves it that's really i love to see that like the new generations loving kind of the old people like he's the time yeah definitely

definitely i love that that's really cute really cute but anyway i'm really excited for taylor swift me too okay next cue next cue can i just actually before before we find one just share my love and gratitude for the space oh i'll share it right back because i was having such a do you have a sodden um time yeah wet through yeah soggy i was having just a down also i can hear is jack eating like beans on toast or something oh no i can hear that yeah going along a plane almost beans on toast sorry about that not in a bad way it sounds like i'm in a kitchen yeah he's making something the door is shut but not sure no no i like it i like it i just want to know what he's having more than anything i don't know um yeah gratitude for the space amazing right what was the one i screenshot one i've got one oh

i don't want to go straight in with another um do it sort of um pop culturey thing rather than like what are your thoughts on jealousy or something that is actually useful um but someone said i need to know your thoughts on house of the dragon whose side are you on and i would love to just take a moment to talk about fucking house dragon yeah should we do an episode i think when the season comes to an end let's do an episode for book club well that's next week yeah yeah i'm i'm up for it yeah yeah i'm well i i um did you say reneara yeah i assume yeah reneara come on common sense right i'm on the side of allison to hide do you know what i mean i can't be on the side of someone who's getting all confused like he's not talking to you he wasn't talking to you it was a different egg on he was talking about it's a different idiot it's a different egg so

annoying so annoying who's your favorite character in house of dragon i loved the king for sarah's unfortunately so much do you know what he was a sweetie pie oh the cutest cutie boy in the world he was just a nice guy i'd love to just give him a face mask comb his hair put it in some braids like although he did kind of murder his wife in a bit of a like and it was that was fucked up but i think he had a beautiful arc a beautiful arc yeah if you haven't seen it that sounds really horrific he did murder his wife yeah beautiful arc though i want to braid his hair it was in a contextual way like there's context i would recommend it to anybody oh my god if you haven't seen game of thrones i mean wing basically forced me to sit down and watch it with her and aren't you glad literally

yeah both of us together for like we'd watch like eight hours a day we were crazy we did it in a weird way yeah but best days of my life like so great i highly highly highly recommend it the show like beyond words if you like harry potter you're gonna fucking love game of thrones it's so good i always say i've said this so many an episode before i'm sure there are two types of people in the world people who love game of thrones and people who haven't seen or read it yet. Genius. Your time is coming. Yeah, it's like, don't start with House of the Dragon. You've got...

No, yeah, you may as well. Oh, God, honestly. Yeah, start from the beginning. I'm jealous. So good. Wendy's Small Frosty is the ultimate summer refreshment. And not because it's cool and creamy and made with fresh Canadian dairy. It's also refreshingly cheap.

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Find a field guide to gay animals on Spotify, Apple, or wherever you get your podcasts. ACAST helps creators launch, grow, and monetize their podcasts everywhere. ACAST.com Okay, I've got a question how do you be a better friend i struggle with replying to people all the time and i was gonna say same but i still think i'm a good friend definitely do you know what i mean because i feel like my friends maybe this again is just me being in my selfish era um does someone have an album called selfish why does that feel like i just

actually made a reference to like someone really random yeah like sam smith or something it's like why does it feel so random no neither but it feels like that was someone's actual era anyway um yeah maybe this is just me being a bitch but i feel like i'm a really good friend and also i struggle to reply sometimes the two things can be true 100 coexist like they're not um being a good friend is not dependent on being like kind of on call at all points to your phone yeah i think it's like you can communicate without replying to text the whole time you can communicate by saying i'm not gonna reply for a bit and all of that and i think that's all fine like also anyone that fucking gets it fucking gets it and i think your mates with should get it can understand that you're not

um sort of um a phone line that you ring and they answer every time that said if anyone needed me if anyone ever does need me i do feel like i am there but almost like if someone just says hey how's it going i might not be there and that is just more than fine yeah i think what is with the pressure to be replying the whole time like that's just not a thing i think almost part of that part of even the need to ask that i think comes from an insecurity of like shit i haven't been replying does that make me a bad friend it's almost like i don't think the people that you're not replying to would consider you that like i think that question only comes from someone who doesn't really know you that feels like oh god everyone is annoyed at me for doing this one

actually no i don't think anyone really minds i think it's also part of the kind of work culture hustle culture social media instant gratification vibe that we've all been living on where it's like everything needs to be right this instant and i actually think when you put your phone down and take a look at the real world you see that things really do there's a natural pace to the earth turning and you can just follow it at whatever feels comfortable to you doesn't have to be like i just feel like everyone feels like there's this timer ticking out and you're like constantly running out of time and i don't think that's true but that's the beauty of text it's like it doesn't almost let's treat text like emails it's like don't need to get back to them straight away they're not a fit they're not an urgent thing it's not a fucking phone call um what what qualities

though do you look for in a friend like why do you think you're a good friend like do you know i mean what do you think makes someone a good or bad friend how do you be a better friend in general if i've been thinking about this a lot recently actually in terms of i think the qualities that make a good friend are empathy um communication but not in not in a pressured way but almost like i don't want someone to let mutual understanding it's almost like i want people to be able to talk freely to me and like have empathy and understanding there um loyalty i kind of think plays into it yeah what i've been thinking about i think we've actually said this on an episode before

quite recently is almost i do think we've actually said this on an episode before quite recently is almost i do think we've said it definitely the sense of humor is such an important thing and friendship to me and i think we were saying on the episode that that encompasses empathy um yeah kindness and and into like almost intelligence all goes into sense of humor yeah i genuinely think that i think i've underplayed that being such an important thing in my life and like almost someone's ability to have fun with me it's like if i think of what i actually want in a friend yeah i want all of these like deep things like i want um sort of authenticity from them i want um empathy from them i also think i want someone i can have a good fucking

laugh with and have fun with yeah that is something that is really fucking important in like the essence of like why would i be friends with you because you have a good time with me like that's a fun thing and i think i've underplayed that in my relationships of being like oh actually like they might not be i might not have a good time with them but they're but they're really honest and they're a good person yeah and actually i think a lot of that stuff that's my base level for having someone in my life is that they're kind and um decent fucking a good person that's my base level for being in my life to be my friend yeah i'd want to be having a good time with you and i think that's really just really important do you think in a way that kind of comes down

to authenticity as well because it's almost like i can't have a good time with someone really if like a real good time not just like oh yeah i had a nice time i mean a real bonanza of a time i'm having a fucking hoot for example the hoots that we have i would say are pretty strong i think oh they're the hoots of all hoots and i think a lot of that comes down or it would be massively hindered if i was in any way self-conscious around you or i felt like you were taking yourself too seriously or like we couldn't be kind of covered in crumbs and laughing and kind of like ketchup yeah it's like i just i need to be like condiments and crumbs but almost like to just kind of let go and just be silly and goofy and not take it too serious

yeah i feel like when there's a need to like keep up and act is when the sense of the sense of humor can't play into that or like and that's not you can make funny you can make like friendly jokes and have a good conversation but like to truly let your guard down and have a real bonanza whale of a time yeah i think it has to be like a complete for me anyway the best time is always a complete rejection of i don't know yeah stiffness looking a certain way performing a certain way keeping up with a certain rule is always a rejection of like that structure i completely agree i think that's when like when i think just all of those qualities of like they're they're a good person they're nice they're loyal all of these things they i have a respect for them it's like those

aren't necessarily things i friendship qualifiers yeah like those go into all of the aspect all of the relationships i have my family relationships my friends my romantic relationships all of the fucking relationships that i have in life yeah that's my thread is that i think they're a good person and i respect them and all of this stuff if it's my mate it's my friend it's like oh well we've got to be having fun then because that's the essence of what you want to do with a friend can i ask you a question yeah what makes you a good friend what's your best quality as a friend number one numero uno numero uno i'm a hoot do you think that's your best quality as a friend i think i think a big thing i bring to the table is i am a fun person and i'm funny um but i also think

all i think i think all of those things i think i'm a good person i think i'm loyal i think i'm i'm really interested in what people are doing that's so which i think is a huge thing you actually show genuine curiosity to people even if it's so which i think is a huge thing you actually show genuine curiosity to people even if it's something you know nothing about you actually really you give a lot of humor to but you really hear unless it's math yeah unless it's oh yeah fuck that people that have tried to tell me about math the amount no people have brought me maths quite a few times i have a friend that's like a scientist and he always tries to explain to me tomato boring nerd

always tries to explain to me things like um oh what was the thing i was trying to explain to me like how you short an investment like fucking banking shit of like oh we're gonna short that like i don't even understand and it was the most boring thing and i i probably gave him a good 20 minutes of being like okay right i'm gonna try and learn this because he was passionate about it he was going on and on and on i was trying to be like okay right let's try and get interested in this because a bit of me did want to understand some things i didn't give a fuck i did not give a fuck so i think there's a line of my interest but on basic level i think i'm interested you don't have to my time is valuable mate know your worth know when to say no honestly my boundary

no is a full sentence don't bring numbers to me or i will tune out i think that's fair enough maybe that's why i think i'm yeah i think i'm i think i've got a lot of the qualities that i look for in friends i don't think i am holding myself to a high standard in the sense i'm not being like i don't hold people to the high standard being like you've got to be um kind at every at every turn i want someone that makes mistakes and can be a bit of an idiot or throw a bit of a tantrum which i think i do often um but i think i think i can be not with me well i had a big tantrum with my sister recently she um she said something that like wasn't cool i don't even know it wasn't out of order she would

she just said something that triggered my body dysmorphia and i went mental at her and i was like you why the fuck did you say that like started freaking out so i think i can be an idiot yeah i think i hold my friends to the same standard which i want them to be idiots in front of me and it's all fine i agree i think it's important actually the thing is it's like it goes without saying that everyone will be an idiot it's almost like i don't get a say on whether or not my friend will have um i don't know be irrational at something or do something that they might later disagree with blah blah blah that regardless of whether i want them to do that or not it's

gonna happen because i'm gonna do it too it's just a given it's florence given when it comes to human beings but i think something i actually really value is i almost need i think it's actually quite um it's like a non-negotiable with us i think that it's almost like if you have a moment where you make a mistake for example i think we as people really value and need someone to be able to look back and be like, oh my God, I'm sorry. Two hours ago, I was an absolute dick and I've just realized that I'm so embarrassed and just almost let the shit out and just be like, I can see that that was silly or fucked up or whatever. Like I would do it differently now.'m sorry do you know what I mean I actually think that's a huge quality that I I think I learned that um kind of not late in life but I think I a habit that's kind of was with the people that I knew in my life and also like I almost think in

my family my family are quite stubborn as well I think I learned late in life that like there's such a strength in being like god sorry i'm completely in the wrong almost like mid-sentence and being like no i don't agree with what i just said at all i think i'm being an idiot let me just like think for a second but i think that i almost thought until i was like 18 i think that's early in comparison to anyone else think about it i think a lot of people go through their whole lives without realizing agreed agreed but i think i almost it definitely was an adjustment period being like oh it is better for your relationships and better for your soul yeah if you could you don't have to stick with your argument till your death you can be like change my mind change my

mind yeah you make a good point i just realized yeah yeah you're right i'm wrong but i think we are raised i agree and it's really a strength actually and i think it also makes you a lot more of a respectable person and it makes it easier to live in your own head because it's almost like the reading in between the lines of that is holding on to something even when you're like you're in an argument with someone it's like you realize halfway through that yeah actually they are right and you're wrong yeah but your pride is too high now and you have to just keep fighting a corner that you don't necessarily believe in blah blah it is embarrassing it's a bit silly but the um the subtext of that like the core essence of that the crux if you will yeah is that you are telling yourself that the worst thing in the world is to

ever be wrong or to ever make a mistake and you're only valid as this perfect person yeah which isn't real you know that you're wrong so the most you're telling yourself the most important thing is convincing other people that you're right it's like you know so you're what the best thing in the life is what you live a lie i don't think so it's just it's a really um maybe it's a survival instinct thing of like we think like biologically that almost like we need to keep our tribe happy with us and we need to keep our like sense of um leadership strong and like worthiness but actually i think worthiness and like strength and even strength as a leader comes from being able to be like oh my god change my mind no big deal let's move on yeah i think that's amazing me too also i think a huge thing that i think i learned this at uni as

well kind of that 18 pivotal moment um that i think i think i witnessed other people do this and it wasn't a thing that i'd ever seen done before like where you'd have sort of a conversation you'd realize it would go kind of south a little bit and it would be a bit like oh god there was something would jarred someone then and i've had it before or like people would start or i was in a friendship group where people would go sorry that thing that you said like two hours ago really upset me i don't want to bring it up again but like that really upset me and it's always that thing was like oh my god I didn't mean that at all and it's so much better but I think what's normalized is just to let all of those things just go under the surface and it's a real habit that I've continued of being like if anything jars me even if it was like the day after and I think

we're really good at this as well not that we i'd never really get jarred by you but if i ever was to be jarred by you i think we'd be like that thing that you said did you mean that by the way and they always go of course i didn't what the hell well i think we're also crazy definitely i think we're also very um not to brag i think we're really or we can be very self-aware so i think we at least at minimum even if you don't think we're self-aware we at least know some of our shitty points so like almost i wouldn't put it past me to read it wrong if you were to say something about blah blah blah do you know what i mean it's like yeah i can see how it might be me

misreading something something something um i think that's what's quite good that we both know that we don't have the most reliable brains we're quite bad at reading certain sometimes certain areas are gray to us and i think certain areas are great to everyone yeah but i think one of the most important things like for example when i started crying to my sister and went mental at her i was like i'm sick of you get out of my room i'm sick of you and she started like clearing stuff up i was like just get out i was honestly going mental um but it's like i know that I have a grey area with anything to do with bodies. That's just foggy.

I can't see straight. I'm in fucking mist in that area. So someone can say, oh, I like your top. And what I'll hear is, oh, by the way, you look really disgusting and fat. Like, it's crazy. That area is grey. And I think what is handy is to be like what i heard is you say this i know you didn't say that but that area i can't fucking deal with it first of all please don't

say things anything what she knows but she didn't say anything i'm mental and two it's almost like once you know that probably you were in the wrong or probably you were reading a fucking different script than actually reality that just allows everything to be okay then it's like oh yeah i have a fucking gray area here yeah that's fine yeah you can't see straight put your glass i've got your glasses on i can't see a thing i think as well what really then it becomes really apparent when you ever spend time with someone who you're just coming from different places like i think me and my boyfriend have this a lot where like he'll be speaking to someone like he'll meet someone or i'll meet someone and it's like god we you realize that you've built up a really good habit with somebody like i think me and you have or like you just you get into a good

routine and a good habit and a really like um just easy healthy way of doing things that then when you experience anything that doesn't feel like that it becomes really jarring because it's like you feel like you can see so clearly like oh well they're obviously just not communicating how they feel or like oh well it's actually a really simple situation like they should both just say i really care about you and my feelings are hurt and it just that's always do you know what's also amazing it's like most likely if you're arguing with someone it's because you give a kind of you give a shit yeah about that relationship like not to say if you're arguing loads with your boyfriend that that's a healthy relationship and yeah no all of that is like arguing isn't a good sign yeah um necessarily

um but like almost if if i was to be jarred by a small comment you would make and in a way that i've read into something crazy i'd be really upset about it because i value this so much and i would be like i would feel the need to bring it up and then we'd have it out and all of that and usually it would just be like that happened but whereas if someone at the fucking bus stop said the exact same thing i probably wouldn't give a shit i would take that more of just like oh well i probably read that wrong or whatever that was fucking weird that person's rude because i don't value that argument like it's almost like what does that argument bring me yeah i think i don't give a shit but there's no relationship there i

think it's also because it adjusts in your mind you have an image of me and in your mind you know how you feel about me and you know how you feel about our relationship so if i was to say like something horrible to you or something that you felt was horrible to you, you'd be like, why would she do this to me? She's supposed to be a nice person. I thought she was all of these things and she must not be. So that hurts. Why would she do this to me? I would never do this to her because I value our relationship.

So she must not value it in the same way. Like it kind of breaks down all the things that you feel like you know to be true and it rewrites it in your head. That's so true. Oh, I thought you understood my body dysmorphia why would you say that sort of thing like it becomes really it's like a personal thing it's a personal attack almost it's like they almost like they know all of the stuff and this must mean that they're not who they say they are it's almost like what yeah what is that yeah but i do think you're right with being like actually the the fucking crux of it is i don't my feelings are

hurt yeah and i love you that's kind of it i think a while for most people and this is what i mean by sometimes me like my boyfriend will be telling me a story about like something from work or like friends or i'll tell him something about blah blah blah and it's like you can see that it's like god just have a conversation just have a real real conversation but i think it takes ages to get to that point of i think maybe the sad truth is the majority of people don't feel safe in their feelings and they don't feel safe in their relationships to have a really really open conversation and i guess it does maybe we're um taking for granted the amount of vulnerability it takes to bring yeah your feelings and your hurt feelings to someone that you care about if almost like if you've never taken the relationship to that place

before i completely agree i do think it's definitely a massive thing but i would also say that it's almost it is kind of the easy easier route to take as well like it's a lot harder for example i'm watching married at first sight uk at the moment amazing show for watching for kind of if you want to start an unpaid internship at social as a social scientist um it's an amazing way to start it's on the reading list um it's insane like it's just an insane like study of like um people vulnerability relationships all of the things and like social um pressures to like uphold a certain image of yourself like it's insane um but so often you're watching like an argument happen between these two this couple that met like fucking two days ago and they're married the language of the show is their wife it's like what the fuck um they're like just on holiday together

and it's so often that someone is saying like the subtext is just like so obvious on that show like one person will be saying like you you fucking didn't load the dishwasher and what they're really saying is like i'm putting more effort into this relationship than you are are you really in on this and the other one's like blah blah blah like it's so or our values are different here i obviously value tidiness and cohesiveness and you obviously don't value as as much so what does that mean for us i'm trying to work you out like yeah yeah all of it but it's so obvious watching it like the easier route is actually to be like up front it's almost like sit down for a second and think what the

dishwasher means think about what the fact that he didn't do that to the dish like what does it mean and it's like just sit and what does it break it down dishwasher equals and probably there's a metaphor dishwasher equals effort yeah whatever it is um but it's like it's easier to be like oh i feel really hurt by you because i feel like you're not really in on this blah blah blah and it all gets confused with this fucking metaphor of the fucking dishwasher that no one actually gives a shit about as well it's your feelings that hurt so you can go in and say i am somebody like make it a personal issue like i am someone who prioritizes effort and cleanliness and tidiness and all these things so when you don't do that i am reading it it as you're not putting enough into our relationship and you

don't value the same things as me. Yeah. How do you see it? It's easier. It's actually an easier way of communication. Oh my God. It's so much less friction. Yeah.

It feels like that's a crazy, like harder thing to do, but it's actually like, no, that's the, come to you want to do this the easy way or the hard way. That's the easy way. Yeah.

Yeah. That's so true. So fucking true. Should we do another one? Yeah. yeah god we were on that for yonks my last line is don't feel bad if you struggle with replying to people and thank you for being here because i know that username i see all the time thank you do you have any um i mean there's so many what's everyone up to at the moment i wonder spooky season should we do an episode. What's everyone up to at the moment, I wonder? Spooky season. Should we do an episode? Our episode's going to come out on the 30th.

I looked at it because I was going to say to you about doing a spooky episode today. And then I was like, oh, no, we've got one more for Halloween. So next one, maybe. How would you lot feel about doing something a bit spooky? 100%. Spooky? What would that look like? I don't know.

I was almost thinking, could we talk about how, like how like like maybe like ghost stories and stuff like that but then I was also thinking about how growing up like the evil eye was like I was like it's so ugly it's so ugly because it was like all over my house it's like a cultural thing and now it's in everyone's bio and I've got one in my house I've got them everywhere sort of thing. Why did you think it was ugly you just didn't like it because it was a big marker of um not being like british enough it was it was like it's so like get rid of it like i don't want to eat hummus anymore sort of thing um really horrific um but i was thinking about then like the i guess we talk about it all the time like the aestheticization and the romanticization and the gentrification of all of these like spiritual things but i wonder

if we could have a convo about that maybe we should say to them like kind of what we're doing now does that sound interesting i don't know should we do something spooky yeah i'm well up for that that sounds great do you know what i mean i'm always up maybe even speak about like religion oh okay yeah no i'm i'm up for all of that like kind of an exorcism vibe let's let's vlog it yeah um go on take it away just a random little one i just think this is cute they said can you imagine doing the podcast in 50 years time yes please and they put granny emojis could you imagine 50 years time that we're how old are we in 50 years time 76 yeah we're in our 70s i hope we're still here you're 76 i'm 75 oh thank you very much um no 26 is my year i'm i'm blasting

everywhere um in our 70s i want to be a bit busy i think we're in our 70s i wonder what we're doing i'm having a barbecue i'm getting pedicures do you know what i mean and i'm saying please can we do the vegan food first oh yeah i'm not vegan guys whoop i just thought oh god you haven't said that yeah you keep outing me i know i'm sorry i was like i don't want to fuck the reveal oh big reveal big bonanza i'm in my keep your beef burgers away from my yeah no that's what i'm doing i think i think it's like i'm just i mean i'd love to but i don't know if podcast is really is it going to be around in 50 years i don't know i think we're going to be doing something but i don't know what that's going to look like we're just being our nursing home

why don't we have a bit of a show like what was i thinking i was like stephanie and i could do that maybe we're like we're kind of go to space oh god maybe we're oprah we could do that go on oprah no no we are we kill yeah and we climb inside our skin suit we're oprah and gail yeah but i definitely think we have some kind of show yeah maybe we have a show and like i think we're touring we can cook together i'm well up there but bear in mind we're 75 75 and 76 we're on our zoom friends that's a hate crime also it's like in a month that's like if it happens within the very specific time of between september and december those are the age differences um i don't know what do you want from us at seven in our 70s you lot will be like still probably like 69 i feel like everyone's like just slightly younger i mean rub it i think we've released an

album we've made a couple films perfect i think we um we're like touring around we're like these two old grandmas they're gonna ship from place to place um shipped shipped first class from ships from place to place tied up in a box and i think we're just like eating delicious food really i think we're just like absolutely dining dining away whining and dining i think we're whining and dining each other forever nice nice that sounds great but yeah i would love to still be doing i would love to still be doing something with you when we're 70 definitely to me it goes without saying same it's like that's not even like the podcast it's not up for debate i don't know what format you'll be receiving us in but we'll absolutely still be together like saying whatever to be

honest i would love to still have a podcast at 70 like that's just to say we've done it yeah just how funny is that yes it's like what does your grandma do voices change what does your grandma do she's a podcast it's like i listened to your grandma's podcast last night she's a fucking freak oh my god could you imagine funny i literally love that the idea of us sitting in like in a little like a weird um i think i think we have a library a shared library together 100 i think we own a cinema as well and it's like showings we do like festivals it's like we're showing it's this time it's like we're doing all our favorite fucking teen movies are being shown here's twilight they'll be like vintage movies yeah we're old women we only show like old black

and white movies oh and it's like popcorn well i think we might open a hotel that's the thing is we seven i've had this kind of idea in the works for a while um of just like we own we always own it first of all yeah first of all we're billionaires we're always so important kind of there's a bust of us as we walk in but we own like big spaces where kind of people can come and just like chill out get some marshmallows like yeah have a sleepover yeah just just good swimming pool we can go swimming there's like a dance class i'm teaching it it's a victory project we're just gonna be the fucking coolest 76 and 75 year olds let us know what you think we should do yeah because we've got enough time to prepare so we have we've got 50 years to make it happen yeah but i think it's like do we buy like an airport or something like that that would be good

environment environmentally bad yeah um so maybe we buy maybe we do the world's first yeah it's always the world's world's first yeah goodness world book of records yeah yeah world's first something i don't know what do you want what what will you be in the market for in 50 years last night i think maybe like um almost um like you know how like cat cafes were like our thing and they were a big thing like 10 years ago there are things called cat cafes i almost think we do something in that a bit novelty it's like a something something yeah it's like um yeah oh you know what i would actually love to do this isn't necessarily in 50 years time i actually think we could get this done a fair bit sooner

than 50 years i think what could be a fun little part of our world is if we had like a space where we help young women like start a podcast meet friends like have rooms for because also like when miss heffy and I started it's like we had nowhere to go we would record in person there was nowhere to go to do that and we definitely don't have the equipment even to this day um so i wouldn't mind just being a helping hand for anyone who needs it same just almost um how to start your or not even how to start it but like almost i'd love to be like funding women's yeah exactly would be amazing with like an amazing definitely but with like an amazing like therapy line as well yeah with like we have access to resources for people that would be nice yeah but the swimming pool most with the swimming pool i'd

also think we could buy a theme park that would be the ultimate yeah really it's like we buy a theme park oh god i'm getting too excited now right okay this is interesting we've never really spoken about this i don't well like we have maybe but someone said aging in a society that prioritizes youth and beauty i guess we have spoken about this but like not properly and not in a while i wrote myself a note kind of recently in my phone did you know yeah but like in a society that like prioritizes beauty i i wonder what i've written because i haven't looked at this but i really wrote oh god it's like fucking it's written like a fucking poet it's a letter it's look how long it is like it's so long oh yeah paragraphs it goes

on and on and on it's oh wow but like i'm not gonna read it but like basically what i'm getting out i'm yakking on about in the note to myself, is that, like, is, like, when I actually really think about it, beauty doesn't really get you as far as, like, confidence gets you. Like, I'm actually not very interested in, like, beauty as a concept. Like, I'm not, like, so impressed when I see a beautiful person or like I'm not like massively drawn to like beauty and the people that I've seen that are so beautiful I don't think it actually has got them very far but I think the thing that actually gets women really far is like if you are confident in yourself and if you believe in yourself and I think I've actually in a world that's like so kind of has this goal for women of like be so beautiful be that's the thing that

will bring you happiness i just don't think it does at all and i think the thing that actually brings you happiness is being confident i love that i agree with you actually i don't think it brings you happiness i think it can bring you power. But I also think confidence brings you happiness and maybe and power. So therefore you may, I guess it's like, shortcut. Well, it's like, yeah, like, there's a whole thing of like, yeah, pretty privilege is undeniably a thing. But like, I think I was thinking about it when I was watching Love Island. Like, all of these people are what society would call beautiful but all i'm watching on this show is these people get fucking hurt hurt hurt hurt hurt and the one that is actually fucking success let's call her now fucking eckin sue who is fucking confident as shit and she knows how to fucking get what she wants

and i almost think yeah beauty on its own doesn't get a woman anywhere like you need beauty and then you also need to be all these fucking other things so let's just fuck beauty it clearly isn't actually at half as important as just being confident and backing yourself yeah the thing is with beauty i feel like is it's unreliable yeah and it fades because it goes yeah but even even so it's almost like you will always have your core beauty sure and like i this sounds not true it's one of those things everyone says everyone is beautiful but when you actually think about it everyone does have their own beauty everyone is beautiful blah blah blah but it you're not always it's not like um an interchangeable currency it's like if i went to um new york which i will be going to soon start spreading the news if i went to new

york with my euros for example not that i have euros on me but if i went to new york with my pounds i've got 500 quid here or you can't fucking spend it because we don't see the value in that yeah so it's almost like yes beauty can get you to certain places and it can give you certain things but it's not um it doesn't work everywhere and also what does it matter anyway if you don't see it in yourself because it's almost like you can't walk into yeah any room and know that it's gonna have value if you ultimately are not finding the value in it yeah and also we can see that and that's the only thing that matters definitely just definitely it's just almost if you look at um the timeline of you can probably

fucking find this on tiktok you can probably even find this on like facebook people make all these videos of like um beauty standards through the ages and it's like okay so we can see that it's actually quite drastically changing in this in a short span of like 50 years even like 20 years what is considered beautiful has pretty much reversed um in terms of like body shape and like the specific things that people want even like to the level of like people used to want really thin eyebrows 10 years later they want really thick eyebrows um so if if the goal post is not even a fixed point then you're working to you're working towards a facade like it's clearly a trick then because you can never reach it so let's stop the emphasis on beauty almost it's like

in yourself it's like okay so you now know that you're striving towards something that doesn't you can never reach yeah so what's the fucking point and also when i see people with it when i see people that i think are so beautiful they don't think they are they rarely rarely think they are so it's one of those things that um you literally can't hit the goal externally or internally so it's a false um goal definitely it's also something that the emphasis on it's just it really is a dangerous game yeah it's such a dangerous thing that occupies your mind yeah and you actually said um a few episodes ago you were like it's like politically important what did you say yourself as a woman as

a woman yeah the other day i thought actually i do really agree with that no no i love it and i think it's actually politically important to try and reject the awareness of your looks as much as possible yeah what it's just depressing no it is depressing it is really depressing because it's also like the emphasis like it's really obvious who is suffering from the emphasis being on beauty it's like oh is women once again suffering for that so what the fuck so it's clearly a scam see what i did there that's a scam let me just finish it right um let's do something a bit peppy so i've dragged us down sorry animal crossing personality type peppy definitely i'm actually gonna go straight to the horse's mouth as they say i'm gonna scroll through on their things rather than look through

my screenshots that's what i'm on i'm on the i'm scrolling no no it's just just someone said maybe this could be nice okay but i i really don't know what my answer would be actually no i do i do actually know what my answer would be someone said what are your i love being a woman moments and why yeah it's hard and then it's like off the back of that it's like when i am beautiful it's like oh it's terrible um okay yeah go on what are yours well i think something that is so undeniably amazing about being a woman um is i think the way in which women form close friendships and like networks of other women like if you've ever seen your friend get broken up with by a shitty fucking guy the network that

pretty much immediately comes around that woman to protect her is actually so incredible like i've seen it time and time again where it's like actually having that like those kind of um relationships i'm not seeing that for men in the same way at all yeah let me think let me think it's hard to say really because what is it to be a woman yeah exactly um but i love that i love your one i don't know i don't know if i can give an answer right now yeah it's really hard because especially yeah especially off the back of being like exactly yeah we're all being undeniably scammed yeah because I think I was thinking of answering that in the beginning and I would have said something that I don't really want to say now so let's let's turn the conversation into something but I agree with you actually I think I think

there is an undeniable bond across women which is why i think i take it as such a personal cut like it feels like such a heavy wound when the internalized misogyny is too strong and it's like we've lost a sister like women down women down it's like it hurts because it feels like a real rejection of a connection that I was feeling. Yeah. Because I think there is a shared understanding of like what it means. There must be. Yeah.

Yeah. I think that's even what this is built on in a way. Like we're all feeling something in common, aren't we? Yeah. Surely. We're all connecting on something yeah right are we doing one more yeah let's do something sweet and what about this when do you feel your best okay um okay when do i feel my best either with stephy having a big bonanza yeah hell yeah obviously goes without saying or i'm not gonna

lie i'm really feeling my best at the moment when like it's getting colder so it's like when this place is clean and we've got candles on and it's like everything's done for the day raining outside and it's like i'm with my boyfriend and my dog on the sofa gonna watch a film i've had something delicious to eat and it's just like my heart is full and i'm just in complete peace it's like everyone i love is safe like everyone's happy do you know i mean like my family are healthy yeah yeah it's just like life is good i'm fulfilled that sounds absolutely stunning i'm really loving the coziness of that image yeah just like safety it's just like god look around like you're in a blanket literally you're in a blanket god i think that is when i

feel actually like really deep enjoyment of like just being a human yeah i'm like i just feel really happy to be here that sounds absolutely like so stunning what about you i don't know i don't know. I don't know. It's hard. That beauty thing has already fucked me up, actually, I have to say. It's fucking true, though. No, it's completely true.

But I think I'm still judged. Do you remember when I read, is it called My Body? Yes. By M. Rata, by M. Ratajkowski. It just, I'm still, i'm still recovering from reading it and i just think i don't know i don't know no i think it is undeniably jarring to to realize what's been done to us all that we've been subjected to this like mass mass marketing of a falsehood essentially this idea of like you can reach beauty and your idea is to work towards that your life must on some way you can doing everything you want but running alongside it but don't lose your beauty yeah it's the pursuit

on this thing that will make you amazing and that you must be kind of keeping up with that at all times and it is fucking depressing it's fucking bleak as shit but that's why i also think it's politically important to enjoy yourself as a woman no it is of course it is yeah totally um i think i i enjoy myself most in the cinema oh that's nice i think i do i think that's when i feel my best like i went to the cinema last night and it's almost that moment that moment where you're sitting there you're comfy you've just been for a wee you've got your drink in your hand you turned off your phone you turned off your phone no messages are coming through and you're

just oh ready that's like almost you can feel everyone's anticipation that's my i feel i feel truly like i'm in the right place that's really nice that's really nice okay let's look i need one more i've just spilt water all over myself when i was saying that every time i know i know it's just one of my um nasty habits someone just said your worst habit oh fave form of potatoes oh love it perfect perfect they said they've given a bit of context they said fave form of potatoes question mark mine's potato lattices always not potato waffles what is a potato lattice what's the difference because i would have just immediately thought that's a waffle um i think lattice you know when it's like you know the ones they do from leon yeah but those aren't waffles are they are they not conspiracy theory those aren't waffles are they when you look closely you'll find they're like that i'm showing you

a picture yeah i'm having a little look here but they're called waffles yes on the thing i think those are more potato lattices they're they're looking delicious bloody hell those are the ones they do from leon those that look absolutely stunning oh i'd have but what's the difference a waffle think of like a bird's eye fucking potato waffle lattice is almost a bit more it's a bit less puffy like a potato waffle has bigger holes undeniably bigger holes yeah if i can slack um i like potato waffle though same i wouldn't say no i would never say no okay fuck mary kill potato lattice potato mashed potato is this in order no no i'm telling you you have to fuck mary kill oh like do you know what i mean and then let's say just like classic french fry

vibe so you've got mash fries quote unquote fry like a mcdonald's chips and the like these lattices that we've thrown into the mix there apparently i might marry the lattice considering i've only just heard about them three seconds ago definitely i'm ready to go married at first sight i will yeah um yeah they look amazing i'm killing mash i think i'm gonna have to kill mash but then i have been thinking quite a lot about like um pie and mash recently i haven't had that in a long time and i almost want it with like broccoli yeah i want like that kind of meal yeah i don't know if i'm ready to kill mash to be honest i'm actually not that obsessed with when we're talking about fries are we talking about thin french fries well what would you write

if you had to get rid of one you've got a thin french fry or a thick cut like british chip dead in the dirt you don't like thick ones i don't really like chips from like a pub okay but you'd be down for a fry fries i i would always always i would even clarify sometimes in a restaurant like is it fries or chips oh wow yes yeah it's personal i much more prefer fries i had a really cool thing the other day um annoyingly whilst i was watching the film fresh and it kind of ruined my meal oh yeah um and i had to leave half of my burger but i actually did eat the fries the next day nice never they were marmite fries oh from that place owie that i keep talking to you about yeah okay

which is really cool there's one in brixton there's one in brighton and there's one in bristol i believe yeah all the bees um nice and it was marmite fries i really like them you do love marmite though don't you marmite head i love you love it you hate it and apparently i love it yeah yeah i would actually say i pretty much just like it yeah i'd go against that slogan yeah yeah fair enough for the same about marmite as i do about taylor swift i like it wow i like it you don't love it can i ask you i don't love it another question if taylor swift like was if you if you went to a bar one night and taylor's there with her boyfriend joe joe yeah what do you do i well this is i don't know if i'm going up to people like when the other day i told you when i was in the queue with ginny ginny weasley yeah and i just didn't want to go up to her and be like i just don't i don't know

if i need to talk to these people i don't want to who would you talk to who would you talk to surely there's got to be people that's like i can't let this pass like i have to say thanks i think i wouldn't want to bother them genuinely anyone on the planet i'm trying to think of someone that i would feel that it would maybe like steve carell no do you know who it would be do you know who i always picture walking past carl pilkington oh i don't know what i would do i don't know i think that's because you think he needs a thank you no i don't i know he would hate it he would absolutely hate it so i think i would actually leave it but that's someone that's like you've been such a big part in my life i don't know how i will pass you but taylor i think she's getting that left right and center i don't think i could

do that to her she's definitely getting it left right and center yeah yeah okay um let me give you um a potato yeah go on what is it marry fuck kill um in my family used to call it kill kiss or marry that we used to play yeah um sort of potato wedges right what from the oven yeah potato wedges from maybe your air fryer i've seen you have an air fryer this yeah i've actually had a potato dead in a ditch hash browns which i've actually had one out of your air fryer did you like it yeah i loved it really nice i want an air fryer because of that and um and just like memory crisps they're quite random choices i'm just really struggling with what potatoes are there oh like roast potatoes yeah no those don't roast potato those are rank in

my opinion but i know you'd pick those you're mental i don't like roast rank shakes head i don't know how to move on from that okay um so am i talking about roast or are you leaving those out no no roast because you're marrying those so that's boring so we're doing wedges crisps and what was that the weird one that you said oh you said hash brown hash brown random i love they just no so do i but i wouldn't i just in my head i'm always like that's a potato? Yeah, I don't really know if it is, but it's just wedges kind of gave me that. I know it is, but yeah, okay, so interesting choices here. I'm going to marry, I'm going to marry Hush Browns after I've just slandered them. All crisps, all crisps are not getting married.

I'm a Libra. Yeah, an issue. I can't answer unfortunately it's against my religion to make a decision what if i add in roast potatoes then roast potatoes i'm marrying them over crisp i would do anything yeah by miles yeah yeah wow i would get a packet of roast potatoes like and eat them from the bag if that was getting killed you know i mean dead rather than a yeah but that's poor taste surely that's objectively bad that is in poor taste like that's uncouth of you to admit that i don't like them i don't really like boiled potatoes roast potatoes or anything of that vibe but how can you not like roast potatoes

when you like hash brown they couldn't be more different but you like a crispy edge and then fluffy on the inside also i've heard you talk about your roast potatoes and you talk them up so i'd really like to try one because i actually don't maybe i haven't had good roast potatoes good roast potatoes it's actually an art yeah i don't think i've had good ones sorry to my grandma's christmas dinner i don't think i've had good oh sorry are they a bit soft and soggy first of all never does enough that would be one of the main issues there's like a tiny bowl between like 14 of us um and i would say i don't know they're. They're not blowing my mind. They're not beating crisps. They're not beating chips.

Wow. They're not even close. I just think there's something really special about a roast. It's so fluffy. A roast potato. What do you put on your roast potatoes? It actually depends on the time. But I think, really, I want them...

The priority is getting them super kind of... You know, when you can scrape it, it's like you can hear the crunch on the outside. I really want the outside to be a really textured and then the inside needs to be so fluffy. Yeah. I really like the sound of that. Like that sounds good. Yeah. I also do these chips.

I always used to make these when me and my old housemates used to have like burger nights where we do burgers i'd be like chip the chip master and i would do they'd be like i know you don't like them but like rosemary fries and everyone loved those but i didn't like them that much but everyone else loved them they were here i i respect that i think that's a good um a good chip choice i can see how they were loved yeah yeah and i do them very fine i like a thin thin thin chip what do you think of a sweet potato fry i would never choose that neither and i really went through a phase of it like probably like when i was like 14 15 but now it's just like get it out i went through a phase yeah

which was actually fucking weird which actually when i actually know what it is it's just like get it out i went through a phase which was actually fucking weird which actually when i actually know what it is it was just literally so it was autistic of me or it was my autism i don't know what the right phrasing is but every single that doesn't sound no it was my autism doing this which is it's like such an um an obvious thing now looking back on it i wouldn't eat anything for dinner other than a sweet potato cut open with butter in it that was the only thing so my mum would cook like kind of a curry for everyone else like pasta for everyone else whatever they were eating and i would always just have a sweet potato with butter in it for probably six months of my life and now i can't eat them yeah i've been really put off sweet potatoes as well i think it's just almost like

when you have too much sweet potato it's like i never want to see it yeah it's like i can't even and that was probably what 14 years ago or something now 10 years ago but i can't do the maths if you had to eat one thing for the rest of your life what would it be one meal what kind of pasta um probably just like a tomatoey sort of delicious yummy pasta a vat of pasta is always the phrase i say a vat of fast of pasta yeah what about you pasta i don't i don't want to think about it it's too stressful but i i really support pasta i think that's a really good choice i wouldn't be i wouldn't be disappointed if i if i said yeah i used to say that question i used to answer sushi what dick wrong choice you'd be starved and so thirsty wrong choice she's not like that was when i was like 14

it's not like yeah i'd have sushi yeah sushi everyone's like i've never tried it this is long now this is an hour and 13 minutes yeah no we've gone on and on and on and on and on and on and the last half an hour is just potatoes i'm not mad but perfect no i like it i'm down with it same cool okay we'll stay tuned guys everyone listen to midnights after this we've got some fun things coming we're not giving anything away we've got fun things happening we do yeah as always so if you don't hear from us so fun if you don't hear from us perfect i'm gonna leave this running so we can do the intro yeah yeah it's you right what did we talk about