Goes Without Saying - off the record: laziness, anxiety & taylor swift

Episode Date: April 18, 2023

what doesn't kill you makes you a fan of sephy and wing...join the conversation every monday.shop our merch: sephyandwing.co.ukcome and chat in our book club.speak your mind on the @sephyandwing instagram. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Wendy's Small Frosty is the ultimate summer refreshment. And not because it's cool and creamy and made with fresh Canadian dairy. It's also refreshingly cheap. Just 99 cents until July 14th. It's a treat for you and your wallet. ACAST powers the world's best podcasts. Here's a show that we recommend. Nature. I've got a gay rooster named Francois. Here's a show that we recommend. And this is a field guide to gay animals. A podcast about queerness in the natural world.

The animal kingdom is queer and we are a part. Find a field guide to gay animals on Spotify, Apple. Or wherever you get your podcasts. ACAST helps creators launch, grow, and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast.com It goes without saying you're listening to Goes Without Saying with Sefi and Wing. I'm Sefi. And I'm Wing. And this is an episode of Off The Record where we ask you to ask us questions and we answer them, but we also go on loads of tangents.

It's kind of a weird one um we talk about taylor swift we talk about do we talk about friendship i feel like we did a bit yeah yeah covered a lot of ground we talked about ourselves a lot really yeah so it's a good one if you give a shit um then you might like this if you don't then you definitely won't so um hopefully enjoy hey fancy seeing you again oh this is exciting i'm excited for like a slightly more chilled yeah because i feel like we've been going to the depths of hell with all of our last episodes we definitely have yeah we definitely have just like we've been covering heavy we've been taking on topics we've been taking them on like doing them no justice not doing them no justice but like not even we have been heavy

i feel like we've been light as a feather like just almost the topics have been dragging me through there they're a bit of a nightmare aren't they i don't really want to talk about anything masculinity i don't want to talk about anything toxic masculinity i don't want to talk about anything but here we are yeah definitely we did ask everyone for questions so thanks everyone for coming in with cues it's on us on our instagram story our instagram is sephian wing for people that are new here but you're probably not new you can find us if you type go to that saying you can find us in most places like if you go into your local all the places that you don't want to find us go into your local kind of burger king will probably be in there all good bookstores yeah honestly well what's on your mind recently before we get into the queues yeah let's do a general yeah catch up we're just catching up with everyone put us on in

the background we're on our way we're on the commute we're just chilling out yeah that sounds nice yeah at the moment I am in a really nice spot of my life I think like so obviously I was in Seattle um I came back at the start of this month and since then I have been by the sea I have been in London I have been in Bristol I have been spending time at home like it has just been I feel like I haven't even unpacked yet from Seattle because I've had a smaller bag that I've been kind of putting other things in for my little trips I want to come see you next week like I just feel like I'm in a real spot of like enjoying what I have around me right now and not being like I think I'm gonna like go and do that it's like oh my god like i just want to see my friends this month and it has been so fucking nice that's really nice and that's where i'm at right now where what are you what are you up to um well i love to hear that

that feels really nice and i also feel like it um kind of as well just sorry feeding off of what you're saying about being in seattle and then coming back and almost like reabsorbing yourself into your life in england like almost yeah oh my god i have a life here like i think that's been a big part of it because it was such a whirlwind not getting into it and a bubble um a bubble a big bubby bubble like it it's been weird to come back and be like was that all a dream like i was living with this dog like what the hell i do think that's kind of the feeling that i had as well i think we all have it in lots of different ways throughout life but i remember saying that a lot at uni especially in

first year when we were on campus and it's like you could kind of if you're on sussex campus you can walk up to the top like by northfield and like where all the cows are and look down on the campus and you can like see the amex and it's kind of like god it was good yeah it's really really nice but it's like it feels so massive but it's just like a small bubble just kind of zooms you out doesn't it gives you a bit of perspective because bubbles are very um consuming and when they burst but when they burst they burst boy do they. And it's like, then it's gone. And I think it's really weird to look back and be like, you had a totally different life for five weeks I was there. That was a totally different life. Yeah.

But I had like different friends there. Like I had different people I knew. Like it was like, what a weird thing. I had a different shop I went to. Things like that. It's just weird to be like, that was, that was just a different life. And it was so nice. And it's also so fucking nice to be back. So I'm in a different life and it was so nice and it's also so fucking nice to be back so i'm in a good i'm in a good mood i'm in a good mood good for you

you deserve it what are you feeling right now it's hard to really say i don't i don't really know it's i i almost think like i don't know like i feel good i feel bad i feel everything all at once a mix i feel everything everywhere all at once yeah. I feel everything all at once. A mix. I feel everything. Everywhere all at once. Yeah, I feel everything everywhere all at once. What did she say? She's like,

I feel it in my vagina. I haven't seen it. I can't remember. I feel it in my vagina. Is it Cardi B? She's like, I feel it in my, she's like,

I'm nervous. Everything. I feel it in my vagina. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't know what the quote is by now. I feel it everywhere. Yeah. Anyway, that's me.

I feel it everywhere. Yeah. Doesn't really make much sense. You've given like a lovely thing about like travel and exploration and how are you feeling but also have i don't know i don't know i'm feeling but good i think from from speaking to you i feel like you're in a place where okay you're really relishing in um what you've done oh that's nice thank you you have a podcast that yeah that feels good currently we'll say it again oh yeah on the apple uh apple podcast home page that's pretty cool

and i think at the moment i think both of us were feeling it wholeheartedly 100 and every time i speak to you i mean we're messing with we're messaging each other the word congratulations five times you know on an iphone where the confetti comes out if you text someone saying congratulations we honestly do it minimum once a day absolutely every not a day goes by we don't text each other saying congratulations which is a bit yeah um but genuinely congratulations yeah congratulations good for you you deserve it you really deserve it thank you big time what have you been eating recently i've been eating big i've been eating henry style god i've been going in you know what i'm really into at the moment

is a big i'm like ordering this yeah big waffle like of course i am i'm ordering a big waffle covered in like chocolate sauce and some sort of like sweet sauce they put on it with strawberries and banana yum and it's so you were gonna do good i thought you were gonna say like with the chick with like chicken like fried chicken sort of thing a hemorrhoid the eighth yeah because that's kind of the iconic i was brand with that yeah chicken leg i'm loving the chocolate waffle i'm so into it at the moment i'm really into dessert i've been having tiramisu a lot um tiramisu yeah i had from pizza pilgrims twice now in the past like two weeks or one week yeah twice in the past week i've had they do this ring of nutella oh my god i have to tell you about nutella as well when you're done what no tell me

now i'm done i had nutella for the first time in eight years um the other day did you like it i fucking loved it like i couldn't believe i actually could not believe so i'm gonna buy a jar of nutella which will be the first thing non-vegan thing I've like purchased yeah um for like daily use yeah good for you good for you continue about the ring the ring the donut the the um the ring to rule them all it really is let the bells ring let the Nutella ring ring um well that's kind of it it's just this doughy ring of Nutella but I'm so into it it's kind of salty like i don't really get it it's a ring of dough no there's nothing in the middle it's a ring of dough like a tube circular like a donut essentially but it's big it's got big holes i'm always picturing a big

filled with yeah but it's in a circle but why that why that what why why a ring does it know you'd have to ask like if you would hold one side of it and kind of hold it up would it stay up no yeah it stays in one piece god what a cool thing like a kind of kettlebell it's a hula hoop yeah you could it's multi-purpose really it's worth the money so i'm into that i'll come around and eat that yeah we should we should yeah definitely because it's really good i think you'll really like it because it's like doughy and like a bit salty but nutella like chocolatey is really good oh my god i'm just really into um food and that's kind of it i don't know i feel good but i also feel i feel so full and so empty at the same time honestly who doesn't that is yeah

i think that's such a relatable sentence honestly okay yeah yeah kind of everything's good but everything's terrible at the same time like i'm great whichever way you think about it yeah so there's that i'm glad we had a chance to catch up that was nice me too i feel like we haven't done that in a while no well as you say i mean we do it every day we do it every second of every day after we say congratulations yeah um okay i thought this question was interesting a bit more serious but i think it's i think again relatable this person said what do you do when you don't vibe with your friends as much oh you know that feeling i do know that feeling i know you do unfortunately yeah um there are a few things i think i think

first of all work out what kind of friend they are to you like are they a long-term old friend who you kind of owe something to in terms of like they are your family like sort of thing right not owe them but like are they a long-term fucking person in your life are they a situation friend which sadly some people just fucking are and that is shit but they just are is it life are they a situation friend which sadly some people just fucking are and that is shit but they just are is it like are they a best friend that you have like fallen out of touch with like work out what kind of friend they are to you and what you want in their life and that what what role you want them to play in your life and then communicate that shit like i do think that you i would say if appropriate say God, are we just not meshing at the moment? Like, what's going on? Like, are we just not vibing? Do you have any friends that that wouldn't be

appropriate with? Yes, definitely. Some would be like, are you fucking joking? Or some that like, they go through cycles. Sure. I have some friends that like, I especially think with like really old friends. It's like, like one of my old friends, like literally my one of my oldest friends I've known since I was like three. i'm seeing her like every day at the moment which is amazing she dyed my hair for me yesterday yeah we're doing couch to 5k together no we're sitting in coffee shops together we're seeing each other constantly and i'm going on holiday with her next week nice um but i then sometimes don't see her for like two months like some people you just go through cycles with um and i don't think if we were in a cycle of not seeing her for like two months like some people you just go through cycles with

um and i don't think if we were in a cycle of not seeing each other for two months we wouldn't be like are we not meshing at the moment because it would just go without saying that we're gonna then see each other loads in like in a few months so i think there are some people that i wouldn't like and also like for like a situational friend someone that like you're at uni you live with them like then you lose contact with them're at uni you live with them like then you lose contact with them when you don't live with them anymore lose contact on purpose on you just fizzle you've blocked their number i've i'm sorry i've lost i've lost your contact it's not the 60s

i couldn't reach her i couldn't find her on the yellow pages i couldn't find you like we just lost each other um conveniently it's not worth it it's not fucking what if you're seeing them often and they're in your life often and whatever but you're you you're not feeling good about it there's there's some sort of the vibes are off then there's something then there's something in the way i would say like if it's something that if it's one of your fucking friends and a real friend there's like a shift there'll be something that's happened i'm sure like was it something they said something they did something that's changed in you or them there's gonna be something i think and i think it's worth trying to figure out what that is and whether you can bring it up or not because if it's like your new boyfriend i hate him it's tricky

one to bring up do you have any like not even red flags but like deal breakers and stuff in friendships because i was originally gonna ask you like what are you looking for in a friendship but then i knew you were gonna say sense of humor so then i was gonna say apart from sense of humor what are you looking for in a friendship but regardless of what you are looking for let's take it a different angle is there anything that is like red flag deal breaker i'm not interested in you or like we were friends, but they're pushing me too far on this angle or, you know, something that would get in the way and stop you from being friends with someone. ACAST powers the world's best podcasts. Here's a show that we recommend.

Nature. I've got a gay rooster named Francois. Is so gay. These rams are gay. I'm studying gay animals. Does that mean I'm gay? So why don't more people

know this? I'm Owen Ever. I'm Lane Kaplan-Levinson. And this is a field guide to gay animals. A podcast about queerness in the natural world. The animal kingdom is queer and we to gay animals. A podcast about queerness in the natural world. The animal kingdom is queer, and we are a part.

Find a field guide to gay animals on Spotify, Apple, or wherever you get your podcasts. ACAST helps creators launch, grow, and monetize their podcasts everywhere. ACAST.com I think just a meanness, a general meanness. I actually met some mean people the other day. Did you?

Yeah, someone was quite mean to me. Who? But not in a way that it was to my face at all. Who the fuck are they? It was behind my back. And it was one of those things. Who? It was at a party.

So I'm not naming names but like i'll tell you privately but i'm not you don't also know them what i don't know i don't know these people i went to a party and i was introduced some people and i said um hi my name's seffy and they said steffy and i said no seffy with no t and they literally and i kind of did this man like with no t and i think i just maybe came in a bit manic yeah and I literally saw the two girls look at each other and go like sneer at me and it was one of those things I was like my jaw is dropped that in a fucking while and it didn't bother me because it like genuinely I I feel like I genuinely don't care but it was one of those things where i was

like god i actually haven't encountered like meanness in a while no one's really mean to me and i really remembered like god that used to be a thing people would get like at school we would be like mean to people and people mean to you yeah you would like to think we grow out of it as adults but definitely i thought we did no i thought we did but i'm saying oh we didn't no just the people i know i don't know mean people because i'm not friends with them but i think that is something when i saw that i was like oh i could not be friends with anyone that when someone would introduce themselves would like side eye at their friend hey horrible yeah it's not good horrible nice so i think meanness is a big red flag for me what about

like a difference in political opinion it's tough isn't it because how how right wing are you gonna right how how yeah how far are we gonna push them i can deal with um a bit you can fucking back it up but what i cannot deal with is hateful shit okay like if you if you're gonna say oh i think the policy on blah blah blah should not have been revised and i think it should have been revised and you can back it up whatever but if you're gonna sit there and fucking um tell me how um i think we need to tighten the migration laws i'm not gonna i think as well like maybe there's something to be said about people how like maybe there's something to be said about if someone is politically engaged or if someone is just regurgitating as you said like hateful shit it's almost like if you actually have an opinion that's different to mine

and respectful yeah which basically isn't racism yeah then i maybe can listen yeah but like no but but yeah difference in political opinion is wrong is is hard because it does tie into your sense of like morality and like a good person so it's like if you if you say if you say you align with certain things i'm gonna start to associate you with a bad person or someone i do not want to fucking know yeah um what's a red flag for you in a friendship oh god it's hard isn't it my pet i'm honestly i'm a bit brain dead i don't know i don't think i've got any um answers for you what if i said that someone was um there's so many there's so many there's literally so many like basically any but like i do you know something that yeah go no no no no no no

please please no no no i want to know i want to know it please please we want to know it's just one thing that yeah i know you're going to agree with me anyway but just something that some people often say i think it's more in terms of romantic relationships actually but people often say like laziness is a trait they really don't like oh if they're lazy i just can't cope with them and i feel like that's a trait that we both really like yeah no i wouldn't give it wouldn't be one of my lists but i've heard some people recently talk about as a deal breaker not in a friendship unless you were in like i get the kind of thing of like you know you're really trying to help

someone and they're finding it really hard to help themselves and i think there's only there's only so much you can do because to me someone being upset about someone else's laziness is not really about the laziness it's suggesting that you're trying to control or help but control someone else's behaviors and you can't and that really is the kicker it's quite judgmental which i don't like it is isn't it um i just don't in the general scheme of it it's just not something i really think about i don't really think about like i i'm more so would be interested in like are my mates happy than like how what's their output like what are they up to are they being yeah like what are they up to in their day today i don't care like no i couldn't give i really couldn't care less as long as you're happy like you know i mean you're happy normal person i don't give a shit what is a red flag then sorry i interrupted no i

lazy shit that's that's interesting i do agree as well that i do it is lazy town around here it's lazy town i think it's more i agree with you that that's more of a red flag in a romantic relationship and i wonder if it's even a biological level of like i see someone needing to provide for my children so if you're lazy not be hunting down the deer for me yeah yeah um i also think i was definitely raised with a very strong there was definitely like a huge emphasis on like you have to work hard and i think a lot of people grow up with that but like a huge emphasis on like work work work like work your life away work really hard like there's no choice like you have to find something and do it and work that's how you live and blah blah blah which is true but also i think i've spent a lot of time trying to give myself this space as much as

humanly possible to also give myself time to enjoy my life as a human being like beyond just yeah being concerned with like what i'm producing for other people or like how much wealth i'm generating someone else's pocket no it doesn't sound good um i just also think lazy it's really horrible i think an immense story i'm getting hung up on the lazy thing but there are so many ways i think lazy is a really disgusting thing to say about somebody anyone yeah i really like i think comes from a place of like not understanding what someone it's kind of that thing um we spoke about this i don't even know how many episodes ago but it's like there's no such thing as laziness there's no such thing as procrastination it will always be coming from something deeper

and like i actually do kind of think that it's like you kind of can't be lazy you probably just are scared of something like if someone's like being lazy what does that even fucking yeah probably just tired yeah yeah it's not really lazy like i think it definitely points out a lot of the time points at a larger issue 100 why are we so fucking capitalist why can't someone be lazy i love that i think as well it's quite cruel when that's like between people who are supposed to kind of have each other's backs and like there's a mutual level of trust there that almost you've let someone into your life if they call you lazy i think it's a bit out of order it's not great is it no so laziness aside laziness aside that's apparently top i'm looking for lazy people lazy lazy girls apply here yeah i'm not mad at it um let me think of

something interesting or i can ask you another question i mean we've got fucking loads i think maybe this is quite nice oh yeah no go on go go what's your morning routine at the moment oh bloody hell what's yours i don't have a routine i don't look like i have a morning routine i haven't unpacked from a month ago um my morning routine the one thing i do for certain which is so boring i'm sure but i as soon as i wake up i have to find like where's my dog he's probably next to me and i'll say hi to my dog cuddle my dog i liked it as well like when he's sleeping or like when he's just woken up kind of like nuzzle into his neck like before he kind of um starts getting up and like waking up because it's like soft and like warm do you know i mean

like i want to get him while he's still really sleepy and like warm and snuggly um that's my morning routine then i sit on my phone and kill my brain yeah to be honest that's the bit that i think i'm doing too much at the moment what about you too much on your phone scrolling hard not to but thing is i think it's got worse recently but then i looked at my screen time and maybe it hasn't but like i just feel like i'm not happy with my dream but ages ago we're talking about social media and it was like i was like i don't have a problem with scrolling i have a problem with getting lost in the identity of social media yeah at the moment i have a problem with scrolling i'm on the explore page more than i like what are you doing there just having a look just like you know like obviously you know the whole y2k thing is in yeah for a while i think

i must have clicked on one of these instagram y2k kind of gals and the whole thing is these long denim skirts now they're stunning stunning i love it um but it's really warping my sense of like what fashion is because all i'm seeing is these stunning instagram y2k looks um but like you know you click on one thing and now the whole thing is that it's like when did this start i'm in like i'm in the 90s can i also say something quite bad or just quite horrific i actually think it's a bit of getting older as well that it's like there are people who got to the trend before you you don't know what people are wearing in first year of uni anymore because you're not there i'm sorry to say well thing is i love the look like of course of course but um i love it so

much but it's almost like i feel like i'm stuck in that specific niche of fashion at the moment so where's my kind of ballet core girls like where's everyone else yeah yeah where are they like i hear about these other trends ballet pumps are in i haven't seen them i'm stuck in um kind of afghan coat instagram got you yeah fair enough which i love but you know i'd love to see some interesting on my page please yeah um god i'm really god you've really gone i've really declined you've got the funniest items next year as well you've got an electric guitar a skateboard the box set of the office um and loads of alcohol next to me that's kind of loads of alcohol which looks delicious um are you drinking at the moment i'm finding that when i drink it really doesn't take a lot to get me drunk which

is quite bad like when you're out for drinks and it's like you can't handle multiple drinks though it's like yeah you can have one drink i was younger i used to cane through alcohol like nobody's business and now yeah i can't yeah anyway what about you sorry i'm being i'm actually being so boring you're not i don't think you're at all nothing are you drinking at the moment i mean what the fuck like we're like we're alcoholics oh no what my airpods oh no they're dying sorry i am liking this okay good can i actually talk about something absolutely and i have been thinking it needs to be like a main episode thing but maybe it isn't maybe it's an off the record thing yeah have you seen and i'll be so surprised if you haven't they're like hayley selena right okay i've been hanging out on the explore page oh of course yes you've definitely can't avoid it you can't avoid

it um by the time this comes out we're gonna be late but whatever yeah it's already late to be honest i just the general not even them specifically but just the general vibe gets me really down in the dumps the women v women women v women and also it's just so fucked up like i can't even be bothered oh i don't know you don't want to talk about it should we thing is i think it's a good app i think you're in your head all of a sudden in the last three minutes you just suddenly got in your head it's been a good app okay i just think we've we just suddenly let's just go into like a new question and if we don't like that then we don't like it can i ask you something yeah you can ask me something let me think but um i've got something though to ask you okay and then we can both do it

but i've got something to ask you favorite thing about your friendship i had that one screenshot if we have ever stuck we can talk about that we can talk about each other what is your favorite thing not about me because i know you're gonna be you got a special or something you do but what is your favorite thing about this friendship um i love what it's done for the economy i'm joking i was gonna say the same thing i love that well i love that we made a financial baby together it has to be this but not yeah i'm joking about the financial thing i my favorite it's created a booming economy for sure i would like i would like it to be but honest this is the most fulfilling thing in the whole world sharing it with anyone it just i i honestly there's there's nothing quite like it we were saying yesterday we were like if we stopped now we would have accomplished everything we ever set out to do

and more like we have done it all like everything we thought was possible we've done it so anything now is just a bonus like we're at the point where it's like now we can just enjoy everything we're not i'm not trying to grow this i'm i'm so happy yeah with where it is right now me and you in our rooms scrappy mc scraps like i love that if it grows if it flops whatever happens i think it's really amazing yeah i feel so feel so weird. Do you? Should we stop? I don't know what's just happened. I feel like I just got infected with like an evil bug or something. Yeah, it's almost like just literally in the...

It's been the literal last five minutes. No, not at all. It's not an evil bug. It's just suddenly the doubt's creeping. An evil bug. An evil bug. No, I think it's an evil bug. No, I think I got bit by an evil bug no i think it's an evil bug uh no i think i got bit by an evil bug actually i definitely don't think it was an evil bug um i actually don't have an answer for this so this is okay i would love to know what you thought

what do you think about this your dream set list for the eras tour okay i don't even know what would potentially be on the set list kind of never never never like you yeah um well i've been is honestly that's something i've been doing is watching people who've been like live streaming it and like filming is it on is it on now the tour yeah she started the other day now when we're recording this um and i think really starts i've really lifted the spirits here exactly exactly um she started i think with a bit of a i think quite a shock but also makes perfect sense so obviously she had what was planned pre-pandemic lover fest which was of her album lover in 2019 which is never never never never me yep and also lover ladies and gentlemen you will know it you will you will i don't know um well anyway that

one oh and you know the one i'll be just like leo in centra pay i'm so sick of running as fast as i can you do get that quicker if i was the man you know that we've spoken about it in my life well i only know all too well yeah well that's good well done that's all you need to know just leave it there it's perfect there's no topping and i know everything off midnights and folklore you know everything oh and oh boy did i love folklore but all i love really is karma to calm my lap karma is everything so something like a goddamn acrobat it's iconic me and karma vibe like that that's everything for me but anyway so she started i i just wasn't expecting so she starts with a song called miss americana and the heartbreak prince which was i will have seen the documentary you've seen the documentary miss americana

so she she had this tour planned lover fest which was going to happen in 2020 but plot twist didn't happen we all know what happened there so then folklore comes out evermore comes out the re-recordings you know we're suddenly we're moving through eras like she's not gonna do lover fest she's not doing lover fest but she starts the the tour she starts the eras tour with lover which i quite like because it's well i love it because it's like she she had this tour prepped and it was cancelled do you know i mean like you've got this is an album like you were doing a traditional like album run like singles drop yeah like the you know the release was like all lined up but the

idea of who taylor swift is has completely changed in the last three years since folklore yeah really yeah the idea of her is no longer really as this commercial woman but like as quite a poet an artiste like right yeah an artiste like she has her reputation has yeah um changed not to use her own words reputation nice good see you know that i wouldn't know a song from it oh no i would go on blank space is that what that song is called it's not even that funny. But no, Blank Space isn't on reputation. I thought I'd got the full name wrong. Take another one.

What Blank Space, what era would that be from? Like big pop classic. Blank Space. Why I thought it might be reputation is because it's kind of a bit like... Bit cheeky, bit tongue in cheek. Like look at me wrecking everyone's lives. I know my fucking reputation is as the women that write songs about men blah blah blah um blank space to me is giving um red no the same album as style yes 1989 there you go

1989 well anyway she starts the tour with some lover tracks Cruel Summer amazing oh shit sorry guys um Cruel Summer it's just it's lovely

it's a lovely place to be she does this thing where she dives and it looks like she's swimming under the stage I'm gonna cry my eyes out if I don't get tickets

honestly puts the fear of God in me yeah I've seen a few things that are like um leaked choreography

from the Taylor Swift from the taylor swift top from the eras tour and it's like kind of someone like standing there kind of like doing these like kind of doing the faces and everyone's like and someone was like no you haven't got the face right like she does a face that's like oh look at me you didn't know like why am i up here like look at me go taylor's blank space who me it's kind of like she's got a real since when kind of the elbows out with the microphone she's in the heels I know it's so well um and she did her fearless thing with the spin and the band and it's very lovely it's lovely to see yeah what's your favorite Taylor Swift era is that a question you'd ask yeah you could ask that question what's your favorite Taylor Swift

era it's hard but fearless does have a well okay so i was listening to taylor swift before is that romeo and juliet yes love story yeah romeo love story yeah no that was william shakespeare shakespeare could never honestly shakespeare could never um yeah fearless is love story i'm fearless as well was when things really took a turn but also like in the uk that was the one that really got picked up but also kind of i guess commercially generally because before that it was just debut which is when she was just a little babby and she had a few songs doing the hoedown throwdown in that in the hannah montana movie she sang a song that's what i remember yeah but it wasn't

wasn't her down she gets on with a little curly hair sings a song. That's what I remember. Yeah, but it wasn't... Wasn't Hodan's Roadown. She gets on with a little curly hair, sings a song on a guitar. Yeah, she does. Yeah, which is later on. During the Hodan's Roadown scene. That's past debut. Oh, wow. The Hannah Montana.

Yeah, she's been around for so long. For so long. Yes, with the curls. Yep, with the curls. Good for her, hey? So I used to listen to her songs from debut and also the unreleased songs. Then when Fearless came out, I would listen to it all the time. I have the CD.

It's really like, I'm ancient. Also, can I just side note? The amount of messages that we get that are like, oh my God, you guys are just amazing. Like my older sisters, like my really, really old ancient sisters, like my sisters. But like if my sisters are like so old and like elderly sisters like jesus christ guys so much you're my older sister's like whoa whoa whoa hang on a minute honestly you guys feel like my older sisters how old the sisters and capitals how long have you been 17 jesus leave me alone um it's horrid isn't it it's a bit much guys don't stop calling me that you can just say i

really like you you don't have to say like hey wrinkles hey granny pants love your pod that's like definitely what i'm gonna call like my gimme pink um yeah i would listen to fearless cd in the car my parents divorced so i must have been about 10 years old and i would listen to it in the car with my mom uh-oh my airpods have gone oh no you're coming out the speaker okay well let's pause what a blooming disaster sorry so i have great memories from fearless and i was emotional when she re-recorded fearless but i also i just love the general it's so cool i love the general vibe of re-recording anyway do you know what i mean like i just like anyone who did that i would be like that's really cool but

the fact that like i was a child listening to these songs and she was a child writing them it's like oh it's really sweet i think that's been one of the things that like folklore evermore i feel like so much but like the re-recording has been one of the things that really has changed the general sort of perception of her i think like i feel like that's one of the things that now is like you can't argue with the fact that that is such an empowered cool move it's so fucking cool the coolest the coolest i think just the misogyny around conversation around Taylor Swift and the idea that I think so many young girls in particular were connected to Taylor Swift and her songs and especially her songwriting and the lyrics and the stories that she was telling because

I think it wasn't really very often that young girls felt that their lives were being represented like that in pop culture in that same way and i think like there was a real authenticity to her voice like her brand voice taylor swift's voice as an artist that made a lot of young women feel seen and like validated which then in turn makes it kind of in the eyes of a lot of critics especially especially at the time, it kind of deems it like irrelevant. It's girl music. It's music. We can just disregard it.

It's like One Direction kind of a bit of a laughing stock. It's like it's music for girls. 100%. And everyone hates young girls. Yeah, exactly. But young girls rule the world. They rule your economy. Well, they rule your fucking money.

Yeah, exactly. You better get to like them. Yeah. So I just think it's really powerful. And I'm glad that, I don't know, I just want her her to be happy i want her to have a nice life and just do whatever she wants and she's given so much that i just honestly think like it's just it's wild i think to be like 32 33 and have given so much of yourself yeah yeah for so long it just kind of blows my mind a bit it is crazy it's a lot yeah great vibes from

her yeah i genuinely great vibes yeah yeah also i think she gives people like permission to have this kind of because so much of it or the general idea of it is that so much of it is romantic and so much of it's like deeply romantic that i feel like she does kind of have that um it's not so much the temptation with like pop music i feel that's especially targeted towards women at the moment is quite for example miley cyrus flowers absolute love the vibe don't actually necessarily love the song but love the vibe like it's that kind of like fuck you i can buy myself flowers blah blah blah blah so many pop music sort of things are giving me that vibe like don't fucking answer the phone fuck fuck man blah blah blah it is quite again right behind that but i do quite love the thing that she is quite

unashamedly and i get the same thing as well but like it is like deeply kind of almost quite traditionally romantic like it definitely has um like a dream early songs were like the country songs are talking about like sitting on the porch like and god and like you know i love you and i'm like gonna have kids with you like it's like really super like hyper traditional yeah i'm into it i think it's like country style it's a yeah it's a it's a cool thing to do for sure it is cool yeah she dominated the space what's your favorite era's outfit don't even is that a question yeah yeah that's a question the other day she wore she oh god she has that she did this version of illicit

affairs which i think you'd be quite into i've heard where she changed she changes the harmonies at the end so she's when she's saying don't call me kid don't call me baby she switches it up and it's just beautiful she's in these gorgeous gowns and she kind of does it for the whole folklore thing and she wore like a purpley kind of movie one but i really like the white one it's very flowy and just like oh god and she turned seven into i love that song poem yeah me too that's sorry that has to be like it's the best song ever written it's it's yeah surely that's like the most beautiful thing anyone's ever heard it is um i love it all i love it folklore so much yeah yeah it's a real stroke of genius

i think i think i just hope she's having fun and she's gonna be knackered it's a long it's just a huge i don't know i just think as a person like hope she's okay yeah yeah you know i mean like get some rest like i mean surely definitely not can you be okay with that like i don't know after that life it's like surely not okay is probably the answer honestly because almost as well like the people who love you there's such an inflated sense of importance in your involvement in other people's lives it's like she's never met me she's no idea who the fuck i am my name nothing but it's like you've been there taylor and that was me directly to you since the beginning through every moment and have articulated moments in my

life and given me the soundtrack to really pivotal points in a way that no one else could yeah what does that mean for us in our relationship and what does that mean for you as a person who is like stepping in yeah as this kind of god-like entity is this like deity yeah it is like oh i don't even know how you fucking process that i don't know it like the thing is she's had it from so young that and also there's a kind of whole cohort of them that all had it at the same time obviously to varying degrees of kind of trauma and success but like yeah there is the whole i know she wasn't really disney but she kind of was disney she came up with with my selena yeah demi all the queens like yeah she's in demi had a thing where when selena and taylor

became friends like a fan was like how's selena and she was like ask taylor love i mean that's pretty cute it was so like no like no but it's bad but almost i love it in an angry way i almost love that they are kind of have a squad like yeah like i would have said that in like year fucking 10 whatever year yeah like i love that and Like, I love that. And also, I just love Demi so much. Like, I love them all. Like, someone actually just commented just in, like, the last two minutes, like, the picture that I posted saying it's giving Miley vibes. And it's like, I mean, that is kind of everything.

I mean, I actually get that quite a lot. I forget, Miley or Phoebe Bridgers, so random. But, like, I think genuinely. I don't think that's random. Miley. I mean, Taylor's fucking great great but she was never my girl like miley was always my fucking girl like i loved miley so much and i still i'll still obviously fucking do i loved emmy yeah yeah love them all same and i just think it's a lot to put on these young girls and like blame them for huge social

issues it's like they're just little girls yes yes i mean as we always say it's a systematic fucking thing it's not a coincidence like that they all pretty much even though they've had obviously hugely like immensely privileged lives in loads of ways like i'm sure there's shit that's gone like the trauma must be off this fucking scale off the charts it's no coincidence that like it's every child star quote unquote it's like when are they gonna go mad yeah it's like come on it's not about them and come back and go mad like yeah exactly and you're watching every moment it's it's it's it's a lot like also this is why the documentaries are so good like oh there's

nothing demi's documentary changed my life let me see you cry backstage i want it i want nothing more selena's documentary i don't want you to cry but bloody hell when you let me see it it cuts deep best documentary just quickly from you it's hard because i do all i'm quite greedy i'm quite greedy guys there's no satisfying me like i always want more do you know i mean like show me look show me you looking a bit down it's like but i wanted you in floods of tears like show me a little glimpse of your relationship it's like i wanted to come to bed with you like i it's never enough for me do i mean i really want to be let in yeah and that's obviously not their job to do that like let me into their literally human life sometimes they do but i don't know i like when it gives you that feeling of like you know them yeah which is i don't know it's obviously very um

complex good and bad but the idea that people can be strangers but they've let you in in a way that feels really meaningful almost in a way that you feel close to them i think is very special it's a little bit podcast vibes isn't it really it is a little bit some may say some may say some may say we're quite the art form some may say we're the miley cyrus and um soon jomez of this generation oh i'll take it some may say take it in a heartbeat the taylor swift and um who was the other one demi demi you said at one point i don't know sorry i feel like i've been i don't i don't know how to describe how i'm feeling and to be honest i'm feeling a little bit um no let's not

get into it i'm happy to go i'm happy to go i think look whatever this is it's on in the background it's off the record all right i hope no one's listening but if you are i love how now we've just kind of stolen steven bartlett we've really stolen his intro are we allowed to do that we just didn't start doing it ironically and i was like we can't say in everyone or like we actually we can't say it more than once no yes we're legitimately stealing this thing it's such an absurd intro like it doesn't really add up to the thing does it's not the secret podcast it's not a diary of anyone and it's definitely not a diary of a ceo like no it's not it doesn't make any sense and thank god because it's so much more interesting now. God, it's like, basically, it's just, let me ask a celebrity about that to tell their life story.

It's not a diary. It's not giving that vibe. It's actually a lot more interesting than that. Why on earth are we critiquing this incredibly successful young man? Like, who the fuck are we? Who the fuck are we? I objectively really like that. Love him!

I actually really quite fancy him ridiculous I have to go before I contaminate this even more what if you don't hear from us definitely assume the worst Wendy's small frosty We'll see you next time.