Goes Without Saying - off the record: the bad boy trope, 'good girls', & reality tv racism

Episode Date: November 20, 2023

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ACAST powers the world's best podcasts. Here's a show that we recommend. Nature. I've got a gay rooster named Francois. Is so gay. These rams are gay. I'm studying gay animals. Does that mean I'm gay?

So why don't more people know this? I'm Owen Ever. I'm Lane Kaplan-Levinson. And this is a field guide to gay animals. A podcast about queerness in the natural world. The animal kingdom is queer and we are a part. Find a field guide to gay animals on Spotify, Apple. Or wherever you get your podcasts.

Acast helps creators launch, grow and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast.com It goes without saying you're listening to Goes Without Saying with Sefi and Wing. I'm Sefi. And I'm Wing. And this is a really, really nice episode of Off The Record. We're answering your questions today. And I'm Wing. think you'll care about this episode I would call this episode quite like soft and funny we also get quite political at certain points there's some reality show talk um that I really enjoyed and I've just really liked this episode really so I hope you do too so enjoy stunning yay woohoo um any updates for us no I think we both have kind of the same update that we're in

kind of the ballad of songbirds and snakes of mindset right now it hurts it hurts deeply to my soul i actually feel like you've you've corrupted me deep like i went to this kind of being like um i have this false sense of security of like yeah i feel comfortable about my appreciation for the hunger games series and i came out of the film like this is gonna be a problem yeah suddenly it's like what district am i from oh god it hurts it hurts if you haven't seen it yet i highly recommend going to see it we actually had such a great time we really did although we've just had this conversation so we'll spare you no go on let's have a little bit of it okay well you can start because i it's almost it's so um emotional

to me at the moment yeah so so wings actually wing actually came straight out and bought the book straight away afterwards i really feel like i've lost myself in this in the world you know i agree like almost like i live in panem unfortunately couldn't make it to the episode and i'm here as her replacement because i just i can't really function without thinking about it no i agree literally every 10 seconds i came away so i've seen it twice now i saw it with wing the first time it was my early very early birthday present which was the nicest thing ever i there is a video wings um there is made a video of the amazing present she gave me it was a real unveiling that she's done it's very dramatic and hopefully that video will be on it was hilarious yeah look on our instagram

it probably will be so funny it includes riddles see if you can solve them it was a quest that she made it was it was the most iconic bit was at the end the present the reveal was we're going to see hunger games like later today or tomorrow i think it was such a dramatic leader and the bit i love a really base level gift that's what i love it's all in the drama it's all in the presentation yeah at the end when i opened this chest which you'll see on the video um it said like congratulations young tribute and like oh god i was screeching it was so extra it was so good i was really laughing oh my god i was like crying with laughter but then i i saw it again yesterday you've seen it twice

in the space of 48 it's been out for two days and i've seen it in those again yesterday you've seen it twice in the space of 48 it's been out for two days and I've seen it in those two days I've seen it twice yeah and the first time I left I was on the train back home after seeing it with Wing and I was like why do I feel so anxious like is this something in my life that I'm like really anxious about like I was trying to trace the thought I was like why am I so anxious right now then I kind of forgot about it when I got home and then when I was driving home from the cinema yesterday I was like why do i feel anxious oh my god i feel so sick and it's like wait it's the fucking film like i feel so anxious about this fucking film yeah like to the point it's like i think i'm anxious about the fact that i fancy

president snow which is just cannot be allowed i don't think you should feel anxious like i don't know what it is i'm seeing some like pseudo intellectual hot lukewarm i would say takes on like tiktok and everywhere just of people being like don't fan like kind of um kind of trying to pull a bit of a ted bundy out of it i feel like almost trying to insinuate that like please guys the eye roll it's a bit like it's not dharma it's cornelius whatever his name is corallina like he's not fudge whatever his name is snow literally cornelius fudge um yeah guys calm down that's mad that's truly like um we need to get into the real world says me saying i feel so sickeningly anxious and i still do i think well i think it's fair to feel anxious because the film and just the story of the hungry

games obviously in so many beautiful ways epitomizes so well all of the injustice and inequality of this world that we live in so it does hit but i don't think i'm anxious about that i think i'm anxious about about fancying no no not about maybe fancying him no i'm that's not the thing that's making me anxious there's something about something more the intensity of that film i think it's seeing children get brutally murdered it's just that could be one thing yeah that could be one thing yeah it's really making me feel ill but god i loved it so much i went back for more immediately so i highly recommend it is something special when like something like a film or just

something like a whole world really like draws you in and like it's just it's one of the gifts of life yeah it really is that level of escape also just like the amazingness of having something that's so nostalgic and something that you loved at that time be remade and remade remade well it's like you didn't kill it wholesome it's kind of the thing with um star wars like the the kind of new the newer ones that came out like i don't know five years ago it's like oh fuck you did it well like you didn't do with the prequels what they did the fucking before it's like killing it it's like you actually sat down you wrote something good the story like needed to be told rather than like let's just make some money nothing worse and it didn't it doesn't feel like that thank god nothing worse than a cursed child there's nothing worse than a cursed child slash new series or harry potter coming out

so this is just gonna carry on in a similar note to what we've just given i guess yeah okay so i'm i'm well up for whatever this is whatever this is let's just keep this going i'm enjoying it is there a question that you want to do this isn't off the record by the way guys so many good questions thank you so much for sending them go over to our instagram if you want to join in it's very sweet to be able to like scroll through yeah these are so cute like thanks guys i'm reading now really nice guys do you guys you didn't have to honestly no you shouldn't have oh you shouldn't have you silly silly girls someone said favorite movies you've seen lately we won't go there we go yeah we won't go there because i think we both have we just did it i could do this maybe not let's not make it death row but what someone said what's your death row meal start a main dessert and

drink maybe we can just because i just can't deal with that pressure right now as i said i'm highly anxious i can't decide i can't do a final meal but i can do like perfect meal yeah go on you go perfect meal i don't even know if i can handle that kind of pressure it is a pressure maybe let's do a meal together oh let's take it from death row yeah and do um let's combine our interests let's combine our interests we don't have to die after the meal no definitely not and we don't have to die together no we don't we don't um because so for me separately my death row meal i would immediately go to a roast dinner so knowing i'm doing it with you exactly means i have the the pleasure of choosing something else it's like oh great suddenly i'm crying that's what they bring yeah no let's not

do that what do you want um well this is the thing this would be a bit of a problem because we would both be like i'm easy i really don't mind i'm not fast you know honestly like you choose you choose yeah that's quite nice because again it's like if it's my favorite meal i think my favorite meal is pasta hands down like i just fucking love pasta well i said to you the other day oh my god i'm actually just gonna say the name of this place yeah go on i went to a restaurant in brighton and i'm pretty sure they have one in london too called chin chin and i had literally the most amazing pastas i've ever had in my life and i would recommend them a hundred times over and i actually get asked so often where to go in brighton

and um so i'm adding chin chin to right to the top of this because it's so good sounds divine so so so good it was like the texture of the pasta was really special. Like the sauces were really rich. And then it was like these thick pasta. Ooh la la. Thick, thick pasta. And then they were like kind of bread crumbing the top of the pasta. That's what I'm picturing.

So the texture was just, oh my God. It was so good. In the restaurant that I used to work at um which now i might just say the name yeah you might as well well you've hesitated now so i guess let's save that for another time let's not but it's an incredible if you find this restaurant i'll describe it yeah describe it it's an amazing vegan restaurant um it's near brixton um giving some hints and it rhymes with i don't know why i don't want to say yeah it rhymes with michi moat it rhymes with michi moat um it's really really stunning um maybe i'll just say it's called peachy

goat perfect if i've said yeah i might as well say peachy goat let's just get it in london is in herne hill and it is very stunning food it's all vegan but they did this um it's like a kale pesto pasta sort of vibe and and it had the bread crumbing kind of vibe they do like vegan if you've got any friends that if you're vegan and you want your friends to come to a vegan place with you go go there. Because every single person I ever served or I took loads of my friends there and every single time without fail, people be like, there's no way that's vegan. It is incredible. Like my non-vegan friends, like my meat eating friends were like, please, can we go to Peachy Goat?

It's so good. And I last night made the kale pasta myself. Yum. So yummy. Yum. The yummy. Yum. Yum. The vegan palette as well, like, is a specific palette. So then when you have the validation from people who aren't vegan, it does add something

deeper. Do you know what's weird that people were asking for? Like, my meat-eating friends who would not touch vegan cheese for, like, from a fucking mile off, they were begging for... Begging? They were literally begging begging please can we go to and i'd be like no we can't go too much i literally work there it's embarrassing um this is like last year um the vegan camembert it's like deep fried camembert bites with like

chutney and bread oh my god that is so good actually and i know that the um if you don't live in london the brand of the cheese that they use i order it at christmas now um it's called honestly tasty best vegan cheese hands down in this world honestly tasty what is it like a block of they do brie camembert blue cheese um they do every like fucking everything and what do you order i get i get like a set of it all at christmas i don't doubt that because do you remember that one time and i know you do we spent like 20 quid on two packs of vegan cheese for this this is actually embarrassing we did this a lot and actually oh no i was gonna say we um

referenced hunger games that night but we didn't that was divergent we referenced abnegation from divergent yeah but it was an abnegation dish but anyway it was it was just as brown as can be it was bread and um i have a picture of that somewhere but i love yeah i've got a photo of that that was for we did a higher priestess launch party when we were in our third year of uni with just some friends in our house and we spent so much money on our student loans on it well we ate it all yeah but do you remember the people that we'd invited we'd like put on quite a spread they arrived in their like pajamas and they're like we just had a curry and we were oh we just spent 20 quid on cheese we were dressed to the nines

well we misread the room we really really misread the room we've made all these little um we made these little like jars really cute little messages in a bottle yeah and we filled it with beads and a message it was really cute that's so cute i actually didn't get one of them i don't think i've got mine somewhere in this room i don't know where it is what did it say in it i don't know we wrote it so it's like dream big or something for something good for you as you should you should dream big um all right starting that's nice so what are we having oh fuck i forgot about the question shit um well let's have a pasta some sort of pasta you can choose oh god well let's have some bread for the table let's get some bread with you i like to have multiple dishes going me too i like to almost have

quite burgers the other day actually you what we had really good burgers the other day we did oh my god we had really good burgers so we've definitely got a side of chips going as usual side of chips i wouldn't mind like a few sides i like to just kind of have chips bread with oil oil oil oil it up and butter yeah i think my favorite food is um olive oil oh okay yeah olive oil i think is my favorite i love like a big doughy bread thick with butter oh my god i like that with extra virgin olive oil god you can't i'll take the oils all right i want a bit of both salt salt salt pour the salt like um uh what's it called like flaky sea salt thick salt shit i had um when i was with wing um not was it not yesterday day before i don't know when it was maybe two days ago not yesterday day before yeah i had two margaritas whilst i was um with

you i had that and then i had a margarita one of them had the most amazing oh yeah salt around the edge and then i had just like table salt oh my god the difference it makes i love especially the first one was spicy margarita yum so nice so fucking good salt in a drink i love it okay so those are our drinks that we're having i think yeah i think it's those and for dessert oh my god we should have hot chocolates after the dessert guys wait till you see this video we made when we drank what is this just us reminiscing on our weekend saying wait till you see a video that isn't out yet it's literally just a couple of standard hot chocolates no they weren't standard then marshmallows they were delicious they were really good with steamed milk yes frothy milk that is not the standard

hot chocolate that was really good um i could do a sticky toffee pudding obviously we could also do a tiramisu god i could yeah god i could i could god i really could okay so that seems like a well-rounded meal we've got bread chips pasta yeah there's enough to go around tiramisu margaritas i'm followed by hot chocolate yeah perfect oh god it sounds so good i'm buzzing god death row can't wait so good can i actually tell you this is something and i do fear saying this just in case i'm manifesting it i feel like i've got a bit of a fear going i know i said i think i said in the drunk episode that i have a fear that i'm a bad person i have a bit of a fear at the moment that i'm gonna be in prison oh god why i don't know i just think i'm gonna do something bad and like or like i'm gonna make a

mistake and i'll get locked up have you have you seen something recently about that like is that what i don't think so i think it's just playing on my mind of like feeling like i'm not being a good enough person really weird i know it's. It's not nice. Therapy time again, I think. That's really weird. You're telling me. It's a really specific fear, I think. And like. I just don't.

I don't want to. And also like, it's kind of the Taylor Swift, Miss Americana thing of like, I'm not being nice enough. I'm not a nice person. It's like. Well, that is how I feel. Like, I don't know. I wonder how many men without

having done anything wrong wonder about being good people i don't think it's happening like there's such a pressure of women to be nice i think i'm gonna get locked away for like not being a good enough girl yeah it's not a crime no but they sure make it they sure no they do they do they do sure make it but it's not a crime not to be perfectly nice the thing is i'm too nice i think look let's have some nuance i'm i don't see nice i don't see kind of um niceness and goodness as the mark of somebody i like i actually don't i think it's really important thing to be maybe it's such an important thing to be but the amount of people that i've met that are nice and good people that i don't

find inspiring or interesting are they nice and good though huh are they nice and good i don't know i don't think niceness and good is um i guess who are we to judge like look let's take the pressure off women to be that i think you should strive to be it but look if you make mistakes i think i just have a complex relationship because you know when some people say like i'll try and be nice or like i'll be nice blah blah blah i feel like i've spent more time as i've gotten older trying to like i what comes naturally to me is to be nice so i'm trying to be less nice no don't do no don't do that like it oh no i am it's important but there's no no no i don't think it is important to not be nice like i think that is a backwards messaging don't be too nice i i think no i think you can

be too nice like i think there's all the room in the world for being a good nice person i think that it's when you're letting yourself get shat all over that's when it's like that's not being nice that's just being i don't know like that's just like um horrible horrible patriarchal like telling women to be weak you can be nice without being a walk like a pushover yeah but it's hard because it's such a gray area that where so much of what we equate to niceness is making other people feel good and feel comfortable and prioritizing other people's um experience on earth above your own yeah it is that is the definition of niceness that's like it's such an impossible standard actually that isn't that isn't what it means agreed great hey don't shoot no i'm not shooting i just don't i don't want anyone to um i don't i hate i

hate the pressure to be nice and then i feel like the way we discuss niceness is such like a like we talk about it in term in quite binary terms of like are they good or bad and as we've just learned from president snow look god is it not such thing it's not binary guys we were actually going to do an episode recently on like the nuance and like how things are so often i'm not allowed the nuance but actually that's like the only thing life is but it's just it's just knackering and i just think i'm not the i'm not a i'm not a no no no no just human beings just whatever you thought i was no no no no no no no no no i quite like this one what's the biggest animal you think you could take in a fight a mouse like a cat no i barely could take a cat honestly i would a mouse would win i'd be so scared i think i could take

quite a big animal go on nothing bigger than a dog i couldn't take i was always thinking a bit of a horse you couldn't you the other day we went past some horses in a field field and you said are those cows so i don't think you could i'd take a cow as well i think i could because you could kind of um they're not that fast i mean horses are fast but like you could kind of sneak up behind them that's what i'm thinking there's classic city ignorance no you couldn't sneak up on a cow they're so fast are they really they run they run in herds yeah i've seen them i've never seen a cow running if you run next to a field of cows they'll start running with you god can we do that yeah one day it's my thing that you've been with me when i do my weird like bowing haven't you at cows yes um i kind of treat them like hippogriffs you must bow i was with you

that one time do you remember when we um were at a skate camp which is a story for another day and there were loads of cows there and they were angry with us and that really upset me yeah it was probably just because you were with me don't take it too seriously i know it's because you were associating with the wrong sort but also i was in a heightened state at skate camp because i was quite stressed that was that was an intense time it really was oh boy it really was we'll have to fill you in on that at some point but i don't know how no i don't know if you meet us in person that's the anonymous one-on-one yeah it's a one-on-one situation you say by the way could you let me in on what happened at skate yeah no absolutely i actually think maybe we should make that our um code but if you are a real fucking major listener like if you come up

to us and say what happened at skate camp oh god i'll love you forever that's like yeah i think i'll faint on the spot that's so fucking funny funny. That's kind of... Because it's also like, don't even know what I would say. Because it's like, honestly, good question. What did happen at Skate Camp? No, there's no answer to it. We were neuralised the moment we left. But do you know what it makes it sound like? Have you ever seen Gavin and Stacey?

Where it's like, what happened on the fishing trip? And like, you never find out what happened on the fishing trip. It's such a good little Easter egg. It's like, what, guys, what happened at Skate Camp? If anyone ever says that to us, I will. What good um little easter egg it's like what guys what happened at skate camp if anyone ever says that to us i will skate camp it's like how did you know i went to skate camp did we go to skate camp did i dream that oh jesus right okay this is a funny one go on oh i thought this is thought this was a good question, actually. Oh, I thought you said... I'm sorry, go on. Yeah, I meant...

Yeah, the episode is a funny one, but also... I will carry it on. This question is a funny one. It's a good... I've never been asked such a thing. I've never thought of such a thing. ACAST powers the world's best podcasts. Here's a show that we recommend.

Nature. I've got a gay rooster named Francois. Is so gay. These rams are gay. I'm studying gay animals. Does that mean I'm gay? So why don't more people know this? I'm Owen Ever.

I'm Lane Kaplan-Levinson. And this is a field guide to gay animals. A podcast about queerness in the natural world. The animal kingdom is queer, and we are a part. Find a field guide to gay animals on Spotify, Apple, or wherever you get your podcasts. ACAST helps creators launch, grow, and monetize their podcasts everywhere acast.com if you could live three times how would you choose to live each life did you see that question yeah great question it's almost like god i've got the i've got the pick of the lot i think i would dedicate each one to each that to something yes but also i would be wary of that because i feel like in

each life i'd learn a new thing that would that you'd want to take i wouldn't want to make my dedications now but like almost i would do like this one as like purely follow my heart the next one dedicate to like learning everything i can learn and the next one dedicate to um i don't know um kind of exploring everything i can explore something that i would want to like maybe um like try and like focus each one on like a thing that's really important to me and find out as much as possible about this place it's an interesting one because it's almost like that question feels like it's giving you the luxury of like an abundance of time which is kind of like all we could want in life to be able to do the things that we want to do but then almost when i'm granted that

theoretically by the question suddenly i'm like oh well I don't I don't necessarily know how I would spend three lives no I mean like it it would change because things that are unexpected would happen in each of those lives which would like throw your plans off track as we learn a million times over in this life that like every time you make a plan boy is it a joke it just gets changed straight away and also the idea that you've set up these three lives to um kind of accomplish or like completed it made a certain thing so it's like okay life one i'm doing this life two i'm doing that life through i'm doing that but there's still the room for failure in each of those things and it's almost like yeah you could i don't know you could fuck up three times over i think the

mission i don't know i feel like my mission in like in this one in this life is i don't know like i i feel like the only thing that i whatever happens i've got no plans other than like be myself love the people around me and kind of like do whatever feels right in that moment like i thought that is my main kind of thing that i don't have anything that's like oh i shouldn't have you you need to go to paris in this lifetime you need to have ticked this in this lifetime like i feel like all that i want to do is like follow what feels right in each moment and i feel like i would probably just want to do that throughout the whole three of them yeah i wonder how bored you'd be i wonder how you'd end the last of your three lives well it's different as well because it would be really interesting in terms of like

nature over nurture each of those would be so different because you'd be being raised differently and yeah it's just quite weird like at what point do you become cognitive of the idea that this is your second life this is exactly yeah exactly exactly like do you know that from throughout or almost like once you die it's like right on to the next one you're like wait i didn't realize i was living yes i wait but i want that's kind of life it's like shit i didn't realize i was living a life well this is until you're dead you're like oh fuck i was alive yeah yeah like whilst we're alive we're like what is this thing and then you die and it's like shit that's why i like reincarnation as a concept like i used to really strongly believe in reincarnation i don't know what the fuck i believe anymore but i used to um really

really buy into the idea and like really and i do absolutely love that as a concept reincarnation the fact that you just keep like recycling energy until you get to a point where you've like learned the thing you're supposed to learn and then you like move on to like whatever like enlightenment whatever that is but like i really do like the idea that you stick around and you kind of each life it kind of builds off the next and things i really like that yeah kind of past lives and yeah almost as well like a sense of purpose yeah in this life is like something that you were involved in in a past life you need to carry it through into this one of like a larger story yes oh i love it yeah yeah i'm into it and then the thing that i really like i don't think this is like part of like an actual

reincarnation teaching or whatever but like i read this somewhere as like a theory which i love but like the idea that the people that are around you were also in all of the other lives that you kind of move through with a community of like um souls essentially that like your granddad in this life was your daughter in your last life your pet was also your uncle in the last like i love shit like that that's just like because i think the thing with reincarnation is like oh i don't want to live another life where i'm not with my family because i'm this this is my family like i hate the idea of like what i was fucking napoleon like i can't deal with this honestly like why does that add up it does my sister like what i was fucking napoleon like i can't deal with this honestly like why does that add up my sister was gonna be called napoleon if she was a boy

that's hilarious i almost think napoleon would have been cooler if she's a girl so cool but my mom said no to my dad on that yeah i mean it's it's absurd fucked up but yeah yeah no offense to anyone listening out there whose name is napoleon napoleon yeah i just want to cover up but also if you call napoleon you must know it's absurd it's like being called persephone you know it's absurd i mean persephone is different to napoleon yeah it is napoleon is like napoleon stalin like yeah no it's mad yeah okay a lot of people are asking about hunger games i'm loving i know thoughts are said. I've said enough. And I refuse ever to give a spoiler.

Especially on something so special. But know that the energy is there. This is not necessarily a closing point. But I almost just need to get this out of my system. Because I don't think I've acknowledged publicly. And I know everyone's desperate to know. That I was watching Big Brother UK. Oh boy.

And I just want to touch on that so briefly bbuk my favorite show of all time is that what they say no it's what i say outside the outside um no but it should be the chant is more so like yeah yeah they do yeah there they go or kind of get someone out exactly get seven wing out gets it or be like sephie to win yeah sephie to win and then oh i like that's got a ring to it yeah okay my thoughts i just want to nail everything really quickly so happy about the winner i love him so much no spoilers but i'm obsessed i did just say pronoun but anyway i'm just gonna leave that there because probably no one's watching anyway yeah um nokki is a dream nokki if you're out there

i now speak directly to you i want to be friends i just love her and i feel like it was actually a well so much of bb uk was hugely political but i feel like the way a lot of the language and like the criticism that nokki faced as a young beautiful black woman in the house was so racially charged and loaded with lots of different interesting ways to describe somebody just i'm shaking my head i'm pointing my i just i didn't like it um and i love her who else honorable mentions i just want to really solidify the fact that nokia and trish were my queens my queen castle and i feel like the lack of grace that they are afforded as black women is so starkly obvious to most people with a brain that it makes me really

um sad to be honest and disappointed once again in this country to have to face the reality of so many disgusting racist people walking among us um because the only reason that you think your great britain is so great is because of all of the different cultures and different races of people that have been here amongst you and you need to get a fucking grip and i can't wait until you die out god who's your big brother was this no honestly for example trish was so amazing so cool she actually in the way and i said this to you the other day it's like really boring conversation you did and when you were telling me about big brother on the train did you notice the woman next to you kind of listening in i thought she might have been listening yeah she was listening

well i because i was opposite her i was kind of looking i was looking at her she was one year in the conversation for sure was she giving facebook mum or was she giving like the right team because no no she was giving facebook mum karen well then she would have been hating my gut i think she did hate us anyway she probably did yeah we were probably being annoying yeah it was a bit of a podcast we were doing we were we were talking about the concept of a muse and i could see her listening into that thinking god these wankers i mean it's a good is it a good point it was a great conversation missy anyway yeah anywho trish i just want to say that trish oh yeah i said to you the other day on the train poor seffy not

watched a second of bb not a single thing and i would have if i wasn't in the married at first sight hype yes i put some pressure on you. But, you know, we have, it's just, it wasn't time for you. I didn't have time to fit two demanding reality shows in my life. I mean, it's a lot. Along with Made in Chelsea, which occupies a lot of the psyche anyway. A lot of what does? Made in Chelsea.

Oh, yeah, exactly. I've got two on the go. You can't interrupt. God, goodness, no. And Made in Chelsea takes priority. I would be a fool to step all over that. So i was telling poor seffy about bb you can't say it again and i just i was saying that trish on big brother really reminded me in the ways that she would like articulate her points and like raise really interesting questions and the ways that she would

like analyze the relationships and the dynamics and analyze her own emotions and she was so kind of um kind and genuine but also really firm and like clear and just she was so great she was so fucking great um she really reminded me of flex if anyone goes out saying if you know us you don't know flex please get out of here you've made a boo-boo you've got lost along the way to end up here and not with boba and flex but yeah mammy she was really reminding me of flex in the ways that she was like questioning things like she had this like really kind of beautiful curiosity to her she was just great and she was so wrongfully and disgustingly evicted the night that she was evicted she was up for nomination and the crowd outside was saying trish to win trish to win right not great everybody like she actually ruled the whole series when she got evicted on the same

night because that facebook mum from the train and her mate had voted to evict her and it just killed me anyway then once she was evicted some old tweets came out i'm not going to speak about the old tweets from her yeah and um i just think my point on that would be that there's such a lack of empathy and like such a clear and obvious and brutal dehumanisation that black women face in the media, in the British media and in British society. That I just know so deeply in my being if, for example, a white counterpart housemate, like one of the other girls, would have made these tweets. Well, yeah, 100% it's not going to be treated the same. Oh, my God. Absolutely not.

tweets not going to be treated the same oh my god they just the grace that the nation had for somebody for example a controversial character like olivia um who was really entertaining but really really controversial and she ended up becoming quite a favorite for a lot of people even though there were so many different examples of her being a little bit um i'll just say problematic or like oh i would just sounds a bit racist a bit mean um from what i've heard i've seen nothing of this but and i just think trish obviously wasn't afforded the same grace and that's not to excuse it's not to say she's without criticism but i just find it really really hard to stomach when it's like it's so fucking obvious that like people just love to see certain types of people fuck up absolutely but that's what reality shows are like that is why they absolutely they hook

you in because you passionately care about it like it they really do delve um they do deal with like the depths of human nature like they will specifically put in yeah opposing characters to get you get your fucking like mind going you fucking hate them like hatred is the thing that sells on these things more than anything i loved the show and i loved jordan i love him so much um so i'm just gonna leave that there in terms of bb uk i mean it sounded great like thank you i know it's like the if you haven't watched it it's hard to muster up the care so i get that i'm probably boring people but it was just really important to me for five weeks well this is yeah no i get i get it like i'm i'm full into reality shit i've

i bored you with my brad from married at first sight spiel so oh and i supported it oh god he came back you know no so i'm i'm two eps behind it i think the show has actually finished now but i'm two eps behind because i can't watch it without my mum and she's in spain at the moment and we would we could i don't know what happened or anything i've avoided the internet completely so he they did a dinner party and they brought back which shows the absolute joke of the whole the whole thing of married at first sight is like we're the therapy we're we're the experts we're showing you like there are therapy sort of couples therapy people that like tell the people they're as much therapists as we are no they're worse than

we are they actually don't give a shit because they kicked out brad this guy because he was like quite literally like emotionally abusing this woman they kicked out another guy because he literally like battered down the fucking door into someone's not didn't bat it down he broke through the door of someone's hotel room and so i'm fucking beating him up um his name's luke and he like started hitting this guy jordan in his room like really weird they kicked him out but then they brought them all back for the finale it's like how much do you really give a shit if you're going to bring them back for drama so there's the nature of reality shows when it comes to reality tv at least in the uk it consistently time and time again is always drama over well-being of contestants of viewers of people involved of people watching at home

the message is you do not matter i just want to laugh at you and that is exemplified i lived it i was loving it but but nothing exemplifies that more than love island and all the shit that's happened there it's like look there needs to be as a reality show lover there needs needs needs to be some kind of like actual change in terms of how they treat like contestants on these shows like nothing shows it more than what's happened with love island just like consistent suicides yeah that show is fucked and that clearly nothing is being done about that because the way that i've seen them treated for example on married at first sight and i assume on big brother from what i've heard it's like come on guys the good thing i liked about i i felt a strong oh i can't even bother to get into it should we just wrap no go on what did

you feel strongly i felt i felt um a strong um uh i can't be bothered it doesn't feel like it's that strong yeah i don't want to it's it's not a hill i care to die on okay yeah yeah that's fine there are plenty of those there i've died on so many hills. No, we've died on so many. Let's just live for a moment in a field, not on a hill. Or do we want to just do a quick fire? Go on then. That's fine. Dream place to live? Where's your dream place to live?

I think I want to live in a few places. I want to live in New York at some point. I want to live in Amsterdam at one point. I would like to live in Berlin few places like i want i want to live in new york at some point i want to live in amsterdam at one point i would like to live in berlin at one point i'd like to live briefly in new zealand i think or australia i'd like to live in a few places i don't know anything yet i haven't been there yet so i don't know what i want but i want to explore as much as i can before i settle oh great because i also feel like i love so many places in england but i've also loved so yeah i have loved like i loved living in london so so much i love living in brighton so much i also love when i visit margate i think god i could live here i love so many places i love i feel

like i could live in bristol i love it but also i have an awareness that i went to seattle and loved it so much and that was somewhere completely random plucked out of thin air and I loved it so much and I could imagine myself living there in so many ways you know why you moved to California but it's just a state of mind turns out everywhere you bring yourself there are just incredible places in this world like I don't know at all where I want to live and I also don't really know if I ever see myself settling somewhere in that way I honestly just don't know I want that's why I always say like whenever anyone in my life is moving around or like not sure on what they're doing I always say like in terms of moving like for example even like when you left London I was like London isn't going anywhere like if

you leave you can go back. Yeah. Which is a luxury, but... I think it's also just the scope of the world. It's like, there is so much. God, there is so much. Too much. And you're only alive for, if you're lucky, 90 years. We don't get three lives. We don't get three lives.

And I have no fucking clue. Fave date idea three two one quick fire i like food and i like seeing things i like them too i like ice skating oh i've never done that on a date but i like that as a thing i would love to do that that's nice coming up to christmas anyone want to ask me on a date ice skating i would love to go please please please well i'm gonna be going but I would love a romantic skate around. I can show off my skills. That's really cute.

Favourite memory this year? Let's end on that. That's cute. Oh, God, there are so many. I've really been trying to analyse this year because I'm like, it's been jam-packed. Why can I not remember one singular thing that happened this year? Honestly. Well, I enjoyed the other day when we went to see

i hate to say it hunger oh boy did i enjoy that was a great memory that was really nice that was delicious that was one of my faves yeah that was one of my faves that was one of my faves for sure i think yeah that was a big one hunger games let's do that let's make this a circle we start when we are hungry okay on that note cool well if you don't hear from us assume the worst if you're looking for a new podcast recommendation we have just the thing go love yourself is an award-winning podcast hosted by best friends laura and lauren and they are the pros at handling complex and sophisticated topics but bringing loads of lightness and familiarity warmth it's hilarious and moving at the same time it's everything that i want when i'm on the bus

walking down the street i'm in my music video i'm laughing i'm crying they cover themes from self-love body image i just listened to one about being child free which was very interesting recent episodes include barbie mania and body image and single life and how to love it so i'm hooked instantly immediately yes immediately yes if you're looking for more conversations on body confidence and self-love and how to get there go love yourself the podcast for you we always need more conversation on confidence self-acceptance they talk about how diet culture took over their lives but now they're unlearning everything they've been taught about body image

acceptance and self-confidence i'm ready to learn from the best to be honest go love yourself girls listen every tuesday with lauren lauren enjoy