Goes Without Saying - photo dump culture: ! It's Time To BeReal-ly Insecure

Episode Date: August 14, 2022

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The animal kingdom is queer and we are a part. Find a field guide to gay animals on Spotify, Apple. Or wherever you get your podcasts. ACAST helps creators launch, grow, and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast.com It goes without saying you're listening to Goes Without Saying with Sefi and Wing. And I'm Sefi. And I'm Wing. And this is a quite chaotic and confusing and passionate and nice and funny episode on social media and why we all kind

of feel shit in this place maybe you feel good in this place i don't know how you feel in this place my instagram be real we talk about i think maybe we talk about tiktok but even if we don't let's just slip that and get the youngins in we can talk about facebook get the older people in as well um and yeah i hope you enjoy it for sake all right okay hey everyone hello hey we're just we're gonna do super casual chilled informal ridiculous chat today i think the vibe i think for me personally is hopefully this is better than nothing and i'm sure i'm sure you agree this this content you're about to receive is better than nothing no content what i mean by that is almost like look if you're not in the mood for just like a silly goofy mood then you can turn it off and you've essentially got nothing

and then you can come back to it whenever you're ready but like i feel fine to record an episode like we're fine we are fine we're absolutely fine i'm fine but we're also just not in our right frame of mind i don't know why we're not as well i think it's just almost well wings got a stomach ache yeah that's top of the list um and i've got no excuse really i've just been playing stardew valley and it's like all i can think about oh but that sounds amazing like almost i feel bad that i'm keeping you here and i know that's all you want to be is back in i need to come to reality a little bit like otherwise no no be building chicken coops stay away no you deserve more than that you deserve more than the reality so true go back to start go back to the valley i'm really scared this laptop is like if anyone can hear my laptop literally overheating i've

tried to push this way back so i'm like miles away from wing right now but i mean it doesn't get much worse for an intro than this, does it? It's almost like there'll be like just like a humming noise the whole way through it. Anyway, I hope there's not. That's all right. Fuck no. That's okay. All right.

Well, I actually look, I wouldn't mind having a nice chilled convo with you about social media because I have been, I've been thinking some things recently as usual. Go on. What have you been thinking? Well, I mean, I'm always thinking, but. Sorry. I just keep having to tell you okay it's fucking loud but the thing is my airpods fall out of my ears as well i can't go any further back because i've got a fucking wire headphones on a wire oh yeah you're so old old fashion now you're tethered i'm tethered to the laptop so it has to be set like

close that's fine they don't mind this can that can get cut that doesn't need to be heard no that's going right in there sorry um yeah so i've been thinking about social media really yeah i help myself but think about it and i think not to take us to the pits but obviously when i'm in a bad place and then i come out of a bad place and i feel good for an hour and i want to post i want to i was i don't know i'm just kind of going through a thing i think i'm at the point where i want to maybe i'm just starting off with the crux and just you know bear with me i need some patience here because i'm not quite sure what the sentence that's about to come out of my mouth is going to be but i'm just going to find it along the way michael scott style lover is that his name yeah it is michael scott oh my goodness yeah i know

sorry my brain is fried what i don't know why i just thought michael scott michael gary am i okay like it doesn't feel right everything feels off um i almost like i think so when I'm in a bad place, I don't post you can you can 100% tell when I'm not feeling good, because there's no stories, there's no nothing. I'm not here because I don't want to share. And if you see a post from me, I felt good when I posted it, I would never I just have never ever posted anything when i felt bad behind the camera yeah or behind the post however i then also am thinking about maybe i want to post when i like why do i only feel like i want to post when i feel good but then it's like well maybe that's just how you feel and maybe that's fine yeah i just feel it's complex a lot about like not wanting to be seen and often when you feel bad it's like why the fuck would I expose myself to people when I feel like shit like then it's all up in the air

for opinions and almost you kind of you open yourself up to the world again you're not in the mood it's kind of yeah if I feel shit I'm not going to a party I'm staying right at home and that's what I mean it's like when I feel shit I'm not making it a party i'm staying right at home that's what and that's what i mean it's like when i feel shit i'm not i'm not making it to the supermarket that's for sure yeah but

then there's something i also think maybe sometimes it helps to go to the supermarket but i don't think it helps to post a picture of yourself online if you feel shit i just don't see how that no but i agree i don't think that would help but then i think maybe what might help is like reframing like why is only one version of you acceptable to be shared with other people because i'm not just not posting i'm not replying to your text for example it's like you i don't allow the depressed version of me i am now but i have a problem with as we've discussed many a time i have a problem with accepting that the depressed version of me is just a valid i think you've come so far on that though like you just have yeah i don't think i don't think

it's you don't reply like i don't know maybe it's other people as well but to me i feel like i always get replies off i'm replying like yeah i'm not thinking oh god she's she's gone again i'm not thinking she's but you have done well you used to you used to go in for way longer but i think we've come to a whole thing with that like you you're great you're just great thanks well yeah i don't know i'm on this kind of mission to make it i just i feel like i want to be very transparent my mental health is really bad that's not to depress everyone or be like woe is me but I just want to kind of figure out what a healthy level of representation of that looks like and help my own relationship with that as well so I don't know just you know thinking the things hashtag realizing things social media is definitely it's such a weird one isn't it because I feel like I definitely

have a whole relationship with it because I always think I've been realizing recently whenever I go on it even if I'm in a completely neutral mood I rarely come out of it I really rarely close Instagram specifically feeling the same as I went in or better i'll either feel i mostly feel worse mostly when i closed my app and i've been on it for literally even 30 seconds i'll note to myself i've been quite like um on it because i feel like it's such a passive experience anyway you're not even really thinking about how you feel but recently i've been thinking how do i feel before i click on this app and how do i feel afterwards yeah there's always a decrease in positivity in my mood after I come out of that place so what the fuck am I doing and I think I've been thinking loads recently like is this a place I want to be like and I think it's been

going on for fucking ages because I used to post any old fucking shit and now I've just got not even an idea of what I'm posting or of this shit but it's just almost like I do think I'm more aware of it. And I don't enjoy that. That's interesting though that you feel like you used to post any old shit quoting you. Yeah. It's not my opinion. I never would have thought that. Like that you used to post like.

Well there's loads of shit now that I've gone back and archived. Because it's like me and my friends like just i don't know like weird things of like squirrels and shit like that i used to post it's the panopticon i'm just more saying it's noticeable to me how it's changed and also i don't know i don't know i just i'm just always trying to think like is this a place i want to be like do i want to be yeah posting pictures of myself where i think i look good on the internet for what for someone to go that is good and for what i don't know i don't because i think it's been normalized figuring out what it is i think it's a habit that's been normalized of like it's normal do you get enjoyment from it i don't know i literally don't know yeah figuring out i don't know if i get enjoyed like for example

when i'm experiencing enjoyment in my life i don't think it's comparable to the feeling that i get from posting a photo of myself online the enjoyment of that is so small i must be a wanker because i think i've got no no i think i've realized that it's the posting part that i like but the scrolling and the observing and i thought this was really interesting that we had a difference of opinion on this previously not like a clash of opinion like it was an argument but just an interesting observation that we feel differently about it because to me like i didn't even it didn't even cross my mind i was naive to the fact that for someone it might be the posting part that they're like oh this feels a bit gross I don't like it whereas for me I get genuine pleasure from posting maybe I'm

I have a sad little life Jane but I enjoy it it's a fun thing for me to do I enjoy that process but I hate or I have to be very careful about when I find myself scrolling through that to me is more dangerous like I think I need to get better at monitoring the accounts I'm ending up on and the things that are taking up my explore page sometimes can just make me feel bad see I think the scrolling I've got I've got a hook on that now like I've got um I don't to be honest spend time on the consumer side of instagram or like i'm not there consuming the content i think i've just got too much of an awareness of um like oh what that we got um your own representation says um it doesn't ever say you look ugly it probably says you look pretty and somehow i've turned that

into your fucking hideous i think i'm not um stable enough to have people's opinions back at me sure it's like i sure it's almost um or like most of the time i am but say i go on the wrong day and someone says um i don't know what they could say i like your dress it's like oh so you don't think i look good though or like um i like your hair yeah because my face is ugly don't think i look good though or like um i like your hair yeah because my face is ugly right huh what did you say about my hair yeah it's like i'm so no i agree i agree with you i completely agree with you i think as well like someone sent an interesting message about let me see if i can find it actually i'm sorry people are just commenting on our reel oh my god did anyone like our reels that we're posting at the moment

we're doing little impressions yeah so actually the Instagram is we're doing little skits and sketches we're being kooky crazy yeah the Instagram is back and running guys maybe by the time this episode goes up which is tonight it might have all gone to shit but at the moment

we've been quite consistent well it's all me everyone give her a round of applause she's it's all me yeah i've been quite consistent um so somebody said they hate seeing happy lives oh no maybe not that wasn't the one that i wanted to tell you sorry that was a great one but we can get to that later um oh actually no that was the one sorry sorry that's getting that's just mental okay this person said um i hate seeing happy lives all the time but crying slash depression posts trigger me so i'm sorry i don't know how you've ended up in these circles um because i must be triggering the fuck out of you every week but i think that is so it of the thing of kind of it doesn't even

i think a lot of the time it doesn't even matter what you're consuming it's just so overstimulating to be faced with so many other human beings it's like we're maybe not supposed to live like this like maybe our brains aren't supposed to be to live like this like maybe our brains aren't supposed to be flooded and saturated at every second like at this speed yeah maybe we're supposed to kind of just engage with our community in our day-to-day life yeah and be around our families and friends and the merchant in the bazaar and yeah do you know what i mean like maybe we're not supposed to be encountering so much all the time i'd love to meet him you get what i mean that's so what i was i'd love to peruse his words i was kind of the merchant's assistant at the bazaar oh that is amazing i can see you actually being like a kind

of um you know like uh in the old kind of shows, like out on like, not a street performer, does that sound right? But like a show girl, kind of in the medieval. I love it. I agree. I imagine myself in the shows. Yeah.

Yeah, I see that for me as well, to be honest. Kind of, like kind of, Madame something, something. Do you know where you're getting that from? There's a character in that woman that like plays cersei in the show in game of thrones yeah um and i had i can't remember

her name it's like madam something and i was like i know that would be me and you were like yeah i can lady crane is her name lady crane you're so lady i would even say madam lady grain which doesn't make any sense lady crane that's kind of who i would see myself as in that world yeah that's where i'd try and go um i see you as i love that for you oh i'm about to be triggered so hard in the world of like there's a merchant kind of the weeping willow that we've created yeah yeah um i think i'm like a little peasant boy i'm like a hungry little boy you're kind of taking your cow to the market you're jack and i'm trying to not even i'm stealing potatoes a thief i'm bread rolls i'm a thief my My face is muddy.

My shorts, my trousers are too short. Maybe you join the theatre. I take you on as kind of my... Oh, that's nice. Almost like you fetch my wine. I think Lady Crane does something like that. I don't know what she does. Yeah, yeah, love it. Yeah.

I'm down for that. Anyway, social media. You fetch my wine. What kind of insanity. Even worse, I say, yeah, sure. I've for that. Anyway, social media. You fetch my wine. What kind of insanity. Even worse, I say, yeah, sure. I think maybe in a new different world, you would fetch my wine. It's like the same thing to say.

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Is so gay. These rams are gay. I'm studying gay animals. Does that mean I'm gay? So why don't more people know this? I'm Owen Ever. I'm Lane Kaplan-Levinson. And this is a field guide to gay animals.

A podcast about queerness in the natural world. The animal kingdom is queer and we are a part. Find a field guide to gay animals on Spotify, Apple. Or wherever you get your podcasts. ACAST helps creators launch, grow, and monetize their podcasts everywhere a cast.com yes so we're not about we're not supposed to be around this no like almost like you're not supposed to be hearing this podcast right now like this was supposed to be a conversation just between two people but all of a sudden and also like i think that's one of the realizations i've had kind of recent not even recently but like social media to me it does feel like the end of the world like it does actually

feel like yeah this obviously is the deterioration of like if you were marking human um humanities like the history of humanity on a on a graph it would be going they're going up up up up up and it's very much like okay this is in the decline now like when in we're in this world where it's become completely normalized for people to to be on a holiday taking photos of themselves on that holiday posting photos of that to people they will never meet and then those people writing back being like you're stunning and somehow that feels like some normal interaction but it's beyond that feels like people are going on specific holidays so they can post them and that is that's the end of the world and that is the apocalypse there is no other words word for that that is the fucking apocalypse that's a dystopia

yeah okay so oh someone commented see but this is nice someone just commented this is in real time by the way someone commented you two cheer me up so much and this is why the apocalypse can be fun and i'm gonna survive in this apocalypse i'm gonna enjoy it chaos is a ladder someone once said in game of thrones we're really game of thrones i know but it's so true that is my mantra i'm down chaos is a fucking ladder look this is the end of the world but let's fucking enjoy it um okay something i wanted to talk about as well because this is something this is a personal gripe of mine. Oh, I love a gripe. So, a couple of months ago now, start of summer, I downloaded an app called Be Real.

Oh, I'm on it right now. Did my one this morning. I'm sure lots of you are. Some of you might not know of the app, but the general gist, the crux of an app called Be Real is that it flashes up, like whenever during the day time to be real hell yeah time to be what i've yeah exactly right so this is my someone sent a really amazing dm and i replied back saying like oh my god this is the best thing i ever read they kind of replied

but being like what like maybe i went i think i was a bit too much i was like this is amazing oh my god i was like wow it's like you're in my brain i was a bit too much i was like this is amazing oh my god i was like wow it's like you're in my brain you're a genius and they were like okay they probably don't even listen i don't know um i was really laying it on thick that their message meant a lot to me because i am of the my personal interaction my personal relationship with be real had to come to a close after not very long at all to be honest for the reasons that i feel like when i engage on an app like instagram for example i am operating as much as possible with the awareness of this is a curation this is social media etc etc so i find it a lot harder to take that message with me to an app called be real when i know for a fact and this is just my personal

experience and the people that i had on be real and whatever and blah blah blah i'm not seeing things that are necessary it wasn't time to be real it wasn't real absolutely not and i that for me is personally i totally get i totally appreciate that this could be amazing for some people but for my sensitive soul i just i can't hack it and i'm making to be honest the wise and adult and mature decision for myself to remove myself from the environment because my responsibility you know what i'm not doing is putting reviews on the app saying this app says it's all about being real and it's not it's all about being fake and blah blah you know what i did it was my own responsibility and i took myself away it's not be real's responsibility to take care of little old erin emmerali no because

i do actually think for me be real does serve some kind of purpose and for me i don't think like i've had conversations with people where they're like this is the next big thing and it's like oh to me this seems obviously a trend like it gives me the same vibe do you remember a game called h an app called hq that was big at uni yeah um it kind of gives me that vibe that it's like this will last four months six months whatever then it will die its death it doesn't give me do you remember house party was it called in the beginning of the pandemic do you remember that oh yeah something like that there was one called quiz up way back in the day that i loved but just like the classic app that everyone goes um fucking wordle everyone goes on and on and on they're the big thing and then they die

this gives me that vibe it doesn't give me oh this is up and coming tiktok it's going to be the next big thing in two years lo and behold couldn't be bigger um be real does serve some kind of purpose for me right now and i remember when i first got it i was having a conversation with my sister and she was like i was like trying to take my be real like my fucking photo oh yeah and she was like why are you retaking this so many times she was like do you know it fucking tells people how many times you've retaken it i was like are you fucking joking this is the information i needed to start off with so my first one i posted it and it was like fucking nine takes and it was just a literal photo of me and my sister having a cup of tea sitting on my roof and she was like it's really important actually that you

retrain yourself out of taking a photo and there's nothing wrong with was like it's really important actually that you retrain yourself out of taking a photo and there's nothing wrong with that photo it's just ingrained in you that you take a photo of yourself and then you probably take it a few different times until it's perfect and i'm actually really enjoying retraining myself out of um the habit of taking one but there's something you don't quite like and it's a great it's just like whatever you fucking look like post that one because it's about 10 people that you know what's really good for that is using like an actual camera not just your phone like getting some film photos because it's rare that i would take more than two film photos of one shot film exactly yeah it's it just feels

much more it just it kind of forces you out of that comfort zone of just taking 20 pictures and picking the best one yeah which is really damaging i think that's been one of the um i don't know that's one of the most sickly elements of our generation i would say that we i don't know everything has to be constantly striving for perfection it's almost perfection to the most insane level because there was perfection 10 years ago whatever but now it's so accessible like perfection is such an accessible thing but it's oh it's so sick and so gross yeah i'm not happy with the state that's fair no you're not and i'm i'm to be honest i'm loving to hear from you these thoughts it's

interesting because i i agree there's not a bone in my body that disagrees but I just yeah go on no I was just going to say what are your thoughts on dumps because a lot of people said dumps are one of the things in social media that make them feel weird and I completely get that in the idea of like perfection on social media I think dumps were kind of introduced as in photo dumps not shits I don't know what you think I mean like the idea of doing a photo dump the idea of doing a big fat why I thought of that was I remember being at a restaurant when the idea of like photo dumps were like really like new and I remember my friend being like I

really want to do a dump and my other friend looking at me like what did you say it was like really like what um but they were definitely branded as this is like making the feed informal it's a casual thing it's just a way to give like a few little things you might do a close-up of your glass of wine a fucking bit of a dinner table here's like your shoes blah blah blah like whatever it is in the middle there's somewhere there's a picture of you that looks stuns blah blah blah screenshot of something whatever you want to put in it's a casual thing and they they definitely like filled the gap in between like the story which is like casual casual casual stuff and like a feed post which felt like it had to be like feed worthy blah blah

blah and it became that you could post um a few little shitty things on your feed but they definitely have and i'm not opposed to a dump i do them all the time and i really do think they're a good way to empty out your fucking camera roll in a aesthetic way blah blah blah i also think that's a sick urge in human nature but you know we've all been normalized i think that i don't think it's wholly sick go on i know you're gonna roll your eyes i'm not i'm not however oh they're fixed there's no rolling your eyes are gonna pop out of your head um like straining so hard to roll your eyes you know burst of blood bustle um i it goes without saying there's so much shit it always goes without saying but there's there is to me an undeniable amount of expression in a post couldn't not necessarily a positive expression it could be the expression of

i desire validation give me love that could be an expression or it could be i'm so happy with these shoes stunning like stunning do you know what that there is and i think there's varying degrees of expression for different posts and different people in different ways that people interact and blah blah blah but i think there is some time there is sometimes enjoyment from sharing a dump doing a dump or taking a little look at somebody else's dump and maybe even comparing dumps but that's stunning i think that is actually such a rare experience though i really think it's rare that people are posting things with the whole

um purpose of being like i am posting this because i love this thing i really think that's rare I think more often it's like um it's it's purely habit it's like I went to this concert and before I know it my hand is in my pocket getting my camera pressing record on I'm putting that on my story like I think it's almost just habit and you haven't even thought why did I do that did I do that because I was loving it did I need to prove I i was there what was that like i went to a concert recently um huge concert uh-huh concert i've always people always say i say that weird concert i would say concert but everyone says emphasis is on say concert or people would say just say gig that would be normal yeah i would say a concert but then again i do get i know i get i get roasted for having a posh voice every day and always have but it's just the emphasis is on the second part of the word yeah concert i know i've always got roasted for

that have you that what that word this is just an observation i'm happy to take never never a roast unless i'm looking at you dead in the eye and saying i'm roasting you so hard right now we actually couldn't eat a roast ever because i know it's your best meal and it's my worst meal it's my favorite yeah so i don't think we'd have a joint experience in that no we wouldn't i'd be annoying you by being like i also to be honest i'd rather i wouldn't like to eat a roast around you because there's gravy everywhere and i wouldn't want to assault you like that why would i be assaulted by gravy no assaulted and also probably insulted wait why is it an assault it's an assault because there's gravy everywhere why is that an assault

because i'm assaulting you by like getting hot gravy all over you you're throwing gravy out it's dribbling out of my mouth it's flying across the room it's going from my foot to the no i'm not opposed to that at all i eat a roast like it's a food fight between me and the potatoes you eat a roast like it's a soup i eat the and the potatoes. You eat a roast like it's a soup. I eat the roast like I'm that little peasant boy on the market trying to get his scraps. I'm saying, for my wife. Yeah, it's a rare experience, you think. And I agree with you, it probably is really rare.

Oh, I was at a concert. You were at the concert. I was at a concert. Sorry, go on. Take it away. I was at a concert. A gig the concert sorry go on take it away yeah i was at a concert a gig some may call it um and i was actually gobsmacked by there was a man behind me and he filmed the entire thing on his phone and i was literally and he was behind you and you spent the entire time

turned around with asking the back thinking i think you need to listen to a podcast mate it's called goes about fucking saying because you're pissing me off and you're ruining your own life and therefore why because he was filming is watching the whole thing through the screen i don't think i saw him look up so basically that it went on for it was a bit long it went on for i would say pushing it two hours it was two hours long the concert was queen you may have heard of them oh god that makes it so much better but without freddie mercury it was um you know it was intense it was intense it was also very incredible but there was a man behind us i love that you saw a queen it's so good me and my me and my friend went to a concert. I forgot. So this is why it's not really a gig, I would say it was a concert.

That's a real concert, yeah. If you were in the 80s, it's a gig. But yeah, seeing Queen in 2022 is completely a concert. At the O2 arena. It was a concert, no doubt about it. So there was a man there. So he was probably a bit old he was probably like 55 i would say he was as soon as i've forgotten all their names older as soon as what's his name the the guy that sings it brian may brian may some other guy and what's the guy that adam lambert god i forgot he's the queen's guy now adam lambert they all came out bloody hell wow and the second they came onto the stage

the phone comes out click click record he's just recording it so he's watching them through the thing then the song would end yeah put it away next song would open up click button again for the whole two hours he's just filming then stopping filming filming and i was just thinking what is this for like not in a i actually don't think i was gonna say i started off not judging him it developed into slight judgment i'm not gonna lie but i started off inquisitively thinking what is this for is this for facebook i thought is this for facebook because i doubt he's on insta i doubt he's the tiktok king um this is a 60 year old man so i'm sure this is for facebook or are you going to email these around so patronizing but like what

what are these for so rude so rude so brutal so but i do i completely agree because that to me is speaking to what you're just saying about its habit exactly it's the thing if you've got this new tech you've got this new gadget experience he's got his fucking um phone his iphone 4 and he's gonna film it just out of habit so it was almost as if he he's not gonna get home that night sit on his sofa and be like come on guys let's watch this i'm gonna put it on the tv and they're all gonna watch the whole queen concert because if it is that why would you do that because you were actually at the concert why would you not just watch it it's really odd to me and i think distill that down because that's someone that i would say i'm so sorry man but doesn't really

have a grip on social media on technology whatever right because he's completely dulling his experience in every way for the watered down version that he's going to get later by re-watching those videos which most likely he will never do he just did that out of habit but i do think there are ways in which we all do that we've been we've grown up with social media so i don't think we do that to that extent or we've grown up with cameras so i don't think we do that to that extent but there is a way that um your favorite song starts playing at um i don't know what fucking festival you're at and of course and your habit is before you know it you've got your your phone out filming it and i know it's like a an overdone point to be like just live in the moment just live in the concert and i'm not saying that because of course you want to get a fucking photo you're watching fucking

billy eilish why would you not want a video no i think hold on to queen keep using queen example i like that you're watching queen and adam lambert and adam for ages i was calling adam levine i was saying like i think it's adam Levine and everyone was like I don't think it is Adam Levine no why would Adam Levine do like abandon his own band yeah abandon Maroon 5 and then do Queen and Adam Levine and then as like literally a day before I was like oh it's Adam Lambert and then I was like who is Adam Lambert yeah it was great he was absolutely great um and it was actually. He was absolutely great. And it was actually great.

It was the greatest time. So I was just feeling kind of bad for this guy. Why are you laughing? I'm tired. Queen. I love this. Yeah, the sincerity of even like, and I had a great time,

but the whole time I was thinking, what's with this guy? No, I was. But not even just the guy everyone society society as a whole and i don't see anything wrong with getting bit like i'm not here to be like i'm the anti-fucking photo police i'm the anti-fucking social media piece because that is not me and i do not live by that i just acknowledge within myself that there is a complete habit and a complete like passivity in going to the pub with your friends and before you know it you've got your phone out take your phone and it's fine that's absolutely fine but it's also like I think for me it's got to a point where it's like

I need to have a little think about why when when I look good do I need to get a photo of me looking good it's like for what to get someone back saying you look good no that's not my life I can't be doing that fair enough I think it's really interesting again you're bringing me a new perspective once again because I feel like I it's not a habit for me to do that I actually have to be like it's the habit for me to forget to do that or to not do that to not take the picture and then have no pictures of life which i've found to be really sad like i feel like i'm trying to be more intentional with remembering to look take a picture this is nice remember it hold on to this share this it's beautiful those sorts of moments but that's also beautiful but i wouldn't want to take i wouldn't

want to taint that with yeah all of the shit i was just saying i think the no no and i you couldn't possibly i think it's more so just interesting that it's such a universal experience at the moment to be spending so much energy in social media but yet the experience seems to be quite unique as well i know we all relate on certain things like when i see a certain picture it makes me feel shit fair enough yeah we all have like similar experiences but i do think everyone's relationship to their own phone is quite unique and like the ways that we engage with social media is quite specific because we're all coming from our own fucked up little brains yeah we all have our own patterns and weird projections that we put onto this new device that we have access to it's completely fascinating so of course that's

going to come out in different ways do you know what i mean like i do think and talking about the beauty of it i do feel like there's a part of me like as a kid i would just be drawing all the time or like um building a house in the sims and like trying and i would and i would say to i didn't have any siblings so i'd be like mom what should i draw you and like little thing like i'm showing my pictures or like look at this house i built like yeah you have the inclination the desire to share creative things those are like and i find posting creative do you yeah i genuinely do i think taking a photo of something as plain as the fucking sky i've literally got my phone out as if sephie doesn't know what it looks like take a photo but almost just like waving your camera

around and finding i enjoy it i just love when i get i do get enjoyment i don't know if it's a libra superficiality thing of like i like no way when things look good no but i finding beauty and things like i do think that's stunning i think that is absolutely stunning i think also that's rare though yeah i think maybe i think i immediately feel comfortable and immediately recognize and know how normal it is for social media to make us all feel shit because we scroll and we see things we shouldn't see and it makes us question ourselves and we lose our identity and things like that but i think i don't i haven't recognized that not everyone is

posting when they feel good some people are posting when they feel bad yeah and i think that's purely from my own naivety of when i feel bad, the last thing I'm going to do is post. So I almost didn't realise that was a thing. But I think it is a thing. No, I know it's a thing. I absolutely know it's a thing. I said this to you the other day, like I could be having the worst week

and I've said this in like all of the episodes recently, but for example, and I'm doing better at the moment, like the good days are getting more frequent was what I said the other day. And it's still true. fucking god for that but when the bad days come so be it whatever yeah it could literally be as plain as i am inside for seven for six days we don't can't count for six days for six days of the week and then on the seventh day god created some serotonin for me

and i managed to leave the house i got dressed whatever i might get some pictures with my friends in that hour that i get home and i feel so fulfilled from seeing people that i love and so proud of myself for getting out and i feel so good for being able to get dressed and not having a panic attack over like what are you gonna wear your face is ugly whatever blah blah blah i absolutely want to like celebrate that moment and for me that is it almost doesn't sound i guess i fucking love it yeah yeah but for me it is like guys i'm outside like it kind of is the most pure thing for me but with with my sharing because I do just view it as my own highlight reel and whatever and I'm comfortable with that and I'm investigating

how I if I want to share more shittier moments of me I don't know if that's necessarily something that I desire I don't know I'm I can see how there might be some importance in that in like showing that not everything is shit but I also think for my own expression and for my own privacy and my own life and my own mental health and just I'm not the most open person when I feel shit I don't reply even to my closest friends like it doesn't come naturally to me to put on my story saying i've been up all night and i feel so sick even if that is how i feel because if i've been up all night and i feel so sick i'm probably not communicating with anyone that i love let alone taking it to the public and i almost think social media is the last or like instagram is the last place you should be if you feel sick and you feel like i genuinely think if you feel i do but some people do naturally do that that's naturally how some

people share and i see that true i just almost think but it doesn't come naturally just for myself the last place i need and want to be if i feel fragile like my mood could go with a gust of wind in any direction and that is in the morning for example the last place i want to open myself up to is like okay here's a world or where everyone is sharing random shit like you cannot even predict what you're going to see as the first fucking post on your feed uh-huh no matter how much you unfollow blah blah blah blah blah unfollow the accounts that make you feel bad yeah whatever you fucking open you're not going to be able to fucking know anything yeah exactly and i think it's a crazy place that honestly has been is it

has been normalized like it is insane no yeah it is a crazy thing but i think that's a stunning experience being like i want to celebrate it and that's what i think it would be stunning if it was that for everyone like it's a celebration of life and all of this stuff and all the amazing stuff but i just think undeniably it is not that for most people i agree i agree i completely agree i feel like when it comes to sharing stuff on social media i'm very much like i just go with i also i feel like you can get this stuffy of me just as a person anyway like i don't really do things if it doesn't feel right yeah yeah do you see that for me like do you know what i mean like i'm very much like i'm not going somewhere i don't want to go i'm not speaking oh my god 100 yeah i would never post something if i didn't if i felt

like i was forcing myself to post or like i felt a pressure to post or something blah blah blah like i really it feels it's quite an organic thing forcing yourself to post something oh take a step back i mean take the pressure off i think the posting and sharing when i'm in that mood when i'm in that place it's very organic but consuming for me is the opposite of organic it's like man-made disaster i think it is i genuinely think consuming like that kind of content like i think it's really interesting as well that you describe it as like creative because i really feel like it is a lot of the time not for you at all entirely for me entirely my own life and my own projection the death of creativity like oh my god it's actually mass conformity to me like it is okay but even but think about sorry on i

just have to say on an individual scale i know i'm interrupting you but on an individual scale i might see your post on a wednesday evening and it will bring me joy you've created something that would there was nothing there before you've given me something a picture of my dress that i didn't make that dress maybe a funny little caption god i love like a funny little thing it's just you're creating a whole thing i do like that and i like to i don't know why i'm being the spokesperson social media because i don't know why i'm um such a hater of it like you're not you're not like i don't know there's something about it we're just exploring either like i need to work out how i want to use this place yeah a place that to be honest i don't

want to hang out in that often yeah like i actually don't like to me there's like for example the difference i feel like recording this i feel so like we're completely authentic it's completely us and i feel really proud of it as a pod as a podcast like i as much as i don't understand why people listen i do understand that if i was me a girl that didn't have this and i stumbled across this i think i would really enjoy this as like a piece of something a piece of shiz on the internet whereas i think something instagram I feel like there's one level of like authenticity that's removed somehow like something about the realness is stripped back and I think one of my main things I feel really uncomfortable with in all aspects of life and social media is just one thing i really don't like when life like my life or my life or my experience

is distilled into like a shitter version of something like for example the guy filming the the queen yeah and the experience he's getting he could be there he could be in the like ambience of the fucking crowd but he's not he's making the decision to experience a lesser version because he's kind of traded off i'll get a smaller version of that experience but the deal i've made is then i can share that and prove to everyone else that i was there and i think that's what social media can be like i'm going to go to the party and i'm going to trade off having a really fun time at the party with okay but whilst i'm at the party can everyone just like also fucking get the fucking photos you look amazing yeah it goes

without saying but also you're trading off a little bit of fun that you could have of being unaware and just in yourself and not a girl that needs to look pretty for a little bit of oh well in a few days when i post that i'll get totally but then i also think that is an illusion in itself like the majority of parties that i've been to a lot of the time i'm around people who it doesn't matter whether they're taking a photo or not they're still trying to think am i looking pretty because the whole time that the whole reason they've gone to the party is because there's someone they're fancy is there so i feel like the addition of a lens capturing the moment yeah exactly i mean like i don't know i agree also my opinions on this will change in about 20 minutes approximately

when i agree with you though i think no i agree i think we're just exploring the thing because i also think i've had to we've had conversations about it many a time i feel like i'm always trying to think about how i'm using social media and how much i'm making myself feel worse to be honest i think that's it's almost like not to even use the word like self-care because i think it's vile but it actually feels like in a lot of ways is it the most caring thing i can do for myself to yeah to be in that but that's why i think maybe like the whole like oh i guess just the generic stuff of like don't go on tiktok in the morning and unfollow or mute accounts that you don't want to see it is helpful i don't want to like undermine it that like what

else are we supposed to say i get it i get that that has a place but then i also think maybe the emphasis is maybe the crux if you if you don't mind i will love it is is about just figuring out what your relationship to social media is because it's likely very different to wing from sephie and wing's relationship and it's probably very different again to sephie from sephie and wing's relationship and it might be very different to people even that are close to you i just think and i do think for me personally I can't speak on anyone else but I know that it is with all of the shit going on in my life and the way that I feel and all of these things and just for my own mental health and my own sanity and my own experience as a human being on this planet I have to take it as my own responsibility to monitor the ways that I'm

behaving with this phone that is next to me at bedtime 100% well it's almost like we've given everyone a gun or something it's like you've we've given everyone kind of the most dangerous weapon so it's not it's not the weapon that pulls its own trigger sort of thing like whatever that fucking old thing is it's like you have to be careful of how you use your fucking thing yeah it does have the potential social media to be incredible like we couldn't shoot yourself in the foot without it we couldn't do this amazing thing without it and for that i am so grateful because i do think there are so many real whatever that means there are so many real authentic things on the internet that make people

feel good and i hope this does make you feel good but on this and if it doesn't please please please absolutely feel free to leave yeah i'm sure it's not a problem a million things that will make you feel good but if this is one of them i'm really happy about that and i i think it's i don't know that would be our main thing that we'd want it to do but also there's a million things that can make you feel fucking shit and i think the shit for the general there's a higher density of shit on instagram yeah that's the thing it's almost if you're in a fragile state which i am regularly and i know you can be too oh yeah you might you might find something you don't like for example at the supermarket yeah fair enough but the maybe it's just the likelihood if we draw it down to statistics there might be a five percent

chance you might run into like a horrible like gossip magazine or something yeah no but i won't be able to keep the maths thing let's go with the math let's see where we go okay so there might be a five percent chance that when you go to the supermarket at 2 p.m you buy six apples oh god if john's getting on a train at 8 p.m going this speed when does he get to dover so hard oh my god honestly so hard like i'm laughing but i'm traumatized laughing through the pain um there might be a five percent chance you go to the supermarket and see a shitty headline on a headline a shitty headline on a tabloid magazine that pisses you off or whatever however you might see some zero calorie coke yeah for example that might get to you and to be honest

fair enough however you might also then go on your phone go on instagram where there might be like what like a 75 80 chance you're gonna see oh here's some real maths there's a 75 chance you're going to see things that are 75 negative 60 of the time i'm lost doesn't make sense but you get what i'm saying guys like yes there's risk everywhere in life but maybe just weigh up the risks i think that's it on social media do you know what i think saying something like the supermarket i genuinely think social media should be viewed more like that one in that it very on the nose is a shopping experience in many ways now but also in a place that you visit like i think it it's made god look at us go that's great well done the way it's completely from you

to me it's like it like you the way we view it as if is as if it's almost like an attachment of you it's an addition of you it's your kind of not only your online persona but then also your all your friends are in there your family's in there some of your granny's added you my granny's in here too it's just you it's your life it's just everything it's an extension of the experience of being alive now but if you view it as like i'm going into a place now that i am going into the supermarket whatever of instagram and in there fuck knows what i'm gonna find it is a crazy place it is also a cool place it's also a fun place you've got a new pair of shoes and you want to show people

you get a message back from your friend saying cool shoes you say thanks it's a cool interaction you get a message from sally saying those shoes are fucking shit don't wear them to work next week sally unfollow accounts that make you feel bad sally um sally's been on tiktok too much in the morning fuck off but i think if you view it as like a place that you visit but because it's not even viewed as that anymore like it's not viewed as oh i'm going on instagram now it's just like before you know it oh you've been on here for fucking 15 minutes and now i feel like shit but i do think it needs a bit more it needs to become more for me anyway i need to view it as a more active experience

because i cannot be passively before i know it i'm on instagram what it's not it shouldn't be that i think you're good at that i think you're good at being active in it i need to be more i think because i'm still not happy with how i use it like it's too passive for me still yeah fair enough like we're working on it i saw i was thinking about this the other day. Just a thing, we are at 51 minutes. Fucking hell. On one take. We're so good at this now, this podcast thing.

Go on, go on. This is not even going to send. Yeah, go on. It will. It should. Bloody hell. Yeah, it'll be fine. I just thought, I was thinking about a thing.

And it was a thing I must have seen back in like, honestly, 2005. Like, I must have been a kid when I saw this. Jesus Christ. It was insane. And it was a thing that popped up on like my computer, like my family computer. Wow. When I was probably playing like fucking, what's it called? Club Penguin, something like that.

Nice. Cheesehead 123 was my name. Cool penguin around town. Cheesehead? Yellow penguin. Cheesehead 123. And it didn't fit so it was actually chess head one two three great oh yeah i remember you saying um you've definitely

done with that before you'll see me in the pizzeria making the fucking iconic that was the best putting seaweed on a pizza or changing it so it's the chocolate pizza with that switch do you ever do that that was crazy um that was crazy that was that blew my mind but i saw a thing it came up on the computer being like did you know the average um amount of time that people spend in their life troubleshooting their computers is and it was like three weeks of their life will be spent troubleshooting you know when you press fucking troubleshoot yeah yeah yeah and i that stuck with me because i've to be honest spent no time in my life troubleshooting my computer but i have spent a fuck of a lot of time scrolling through instagram so if the average user in 2005 spent three weeks troubleshooting their computer

in their entire life we've probably spent the average time of about five years of my life you spend three weeks in probably about five weeks literally literally so it just i think i thought that they were done just thought yeah i'm not troubleshooting a lot but i am spending a hell of a lot of time there so that adds up to three weeks fucking hell i need to sort something out here it definitely yeah because yolo and it's true it's a lot yeah okay well how are you feeling i'm feeling um i'm just boiling hot yeah it's really hot but i'm also how did you feel about the combo uh i remember a word that was spoken to be honest all right how do you feel about it i feel good i enjoyed that i could talk about it all day i i feel like as well with social media like obviously

so much of it does go without saying and i feel like you could easily listen to this and be like i didn't like it when they said blah blah blah but just can you cut us some slack guys you did click on this podcast i didn't i didn't knock on your door and say please listen to my podcast do you know what i mean be nice to us we're not handing out flyers in the supermarket good podcast no but essentially we are though i would never i would never say good podcast come and listen roll up i wouldn't say come and listen but i'd say good podcast i'd say good podcast like to you and like in the comfort of my own yeah to anyone else but i'm not i'm not the bizarre by the merchant saying with my bell roll up roll up good podcast here come and share your thoughts

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