Goes Without Saying - porn and sex culture: two girls, one podcast

Episode Date: May 4, 2020

it’s time to clear your search history because this ep is getting spicy. in this episode of Goes Without Saying, we (sephy & wing) are talking all things porn! from our own experiences with watching porn, the emphasis on the male gaze, and the orgasm gap, we're breaking down whether porn is empowering or problematic. can porn be feminist, or will it always be another product of the patriarchy? find out in this sexy episode. speak your mind on our instagram! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome back to Hire Priestess. I'm Erin. And I am Persephone. And today we're going to be discussing porn and I can't wait. You guys have sent, like I actually have to take a moment to thank from the bottom of my heart. The just, thanks first of all for sending in your messages, but also anyone who like if you're listening, you've listened to a couple, like, you're on the Insta, like, you're involved. We are obsessed with you. Oh, we talk about you personally, like, naming you, naming you. When you come into our DMs, we're like, oh my God, did you see the message from Joanna? Like, we're crying.

We can't get over. We're obsessed with you. So thank you so, so much. Anyway, most amazing messages and such good points to discuss so many and also just the we have just had so many more messages so much more interest than we've ever had before in the last few weeks and it's just like so so um incredible i just can't get over it we just talk about it all the time people are podcasting during this pandemic who knew people are saying like,

oh, I go on a walk with you every day. And it's like, oh, don't make me cry. Don't make me die. Because that's what I do. Honestly, you say anything remotely sweet in the DMs, I'm crying over it. You're like, I didn't mean it as a compliment. I'm like, no, but it's so cute.

It's like you took the time to write to us. So this podcast, I think think is going to be quite collaborative i think the past few eps have been and i quite like it i'm really enjoying so we're going to discuss some of your points some of the questions that we asked you some of the results of the polls that we had going on the story that i'm sure many of you were involved in good feedback from all of you i wanted to hear a bit about your quarantine first of all like how's your quarantine going like honorable mentions as we keep saying okay well my honorable mention has changed quite drastically from last week's honorable mention oh my god it's no more

animal crossing well oh my god it's no more animal crossing on a macbook air playing oh my god playing wild world on on my laptop. I'm now upgraded. I'm up to date. I'm playing on a Switch. I'm playing New Horizons. And the jealousy is unbelievable. I cannot believe it.

Honestly, I'm begging you like I'm begging my mum when I'm eight years old. I'm like, please, you have to buy it. Please. Thing is, I want it more than anything. I just can't justify right now. Like I, I... You can.

Thing is, I will. I will. The thing is, I will. I'll break. There'll be... You need to break. I need to do some more convincing. Yeah.

There'll come a point in the next few weeks where I will just break. Because I've been playing New Leaf and I've been playing Harvest Moon, as mentioned. So much so... Was New Leaf not all alloying you though? Because I got quite annoyed playing Wild World because I'm just like, oh, I can't, like, I need New Horizons. You can't even jump over the river and things like that. It's just like, what's happening?

Like you can't, your town isn't like malleable in the same way as the island. Yeah, exactly. That changes everything. I know. Look, I've been watching island tours. I've been looking island tours i've been looking at alijah wood but only those turnips i just thought i should tell you what my island is called oh yeah what okay so i spent a lot of time thinking about this because once you name your island that's it yeah there's no changes yeah no take backs and i'm quite i just need it to be

perfect i was also a bit gutted at first because my native island fruit was pears and I kind of wanted cherries. You do eat pears though. But then I thought, I do eat pears. I love pears. They're my second favourite fruit after cherries. So I thought, it's quite sweet. Oh, got it.

I see the dilemma. I see the dilemma. You don't want your second favourite island. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. And I thought about restarting, but I'd already completed so much

and I thought, I love it anyway. Yeah. Be grateful. Yeah. Who can complain? Pears, shout out to all the pears. What was that guy's name? Rick Ross.

Was it Rick Ross who said that? Shout out to all the pears. I've got no idea what you're talking about. He lost loads of weight and he was like, I just ate loads of pears. Shout out to all the pears. That is weird as hell. It's quite a thing like four years ago. Anyway, shout out to all the pears. That's weird as hell. It's quite a thing like four years ago.

Anyway, shout out to all the pears. To my island. Yeah. I was thinking, what do I call my island? And then I thought, quite cute. I was like, what islands do I know? I thought Moana's island. That's cute.

It's called Motunui. And I thought, gorgeous name. Yeah, love it. Then I thought, I'm not going to name my island after Moana's island. I thought, what would my Moana island be called? If I was Moana, what would my island be? Kind of Polynesian of Polynesian island like I've been standing on the edge of the water like whatever the next line would be your favorite daughter yeah um as long as I can remember I got it knowing why so then I was like okay so like what do I like and I thought oh okay this would

be good to do some sort of like Libra like Pisces moon kind of reference oh i'm hooked go on so i started looking at all the polynesian words for like any kind of celestial like oh wow astrology yeah libra pisces kind of like fish like that sort of thing yeah the town is called ikamarama Ika Marama which means sorry Ika Marara Ika Marama Ika Marana Marama love it

okay which means in some way from which you could infer Pisces moon which I think is cute oh my god I love that

isn't that cute and it looks it looks cute written down that was kind of the main thing how are we spelling and I thought Ika it's quite cute it's really cute my sister main thing how are we spelling and I thought Ika it's quite cute it's really cute

my sister's got a friend called Ika really yeah Ika what the fuck that's so that's crazy oh I may as well

change my island name it's supposed to be unique anyway I love it I love that two words two separate words one word

Ika Marama I love that that's so cool I also love it because it's so unique yeah it really is your island no one else's island's called ikamarama i hope imagine we get dms sorry my island's called ikamarana my island is my island is my island's called that too imagine there are many many

ikamarana so if you're called ikamarana if that's your name ika surname marama marama then hit us up yeah exactly I love that and if your turnip prices are ever selling for anything over than like 150 bells hit me up

and also hit up Elijah Wood he's looking he's in the market yeah exactly me and Elijah Wood will be waiting at your door

what about you what are your mentions my mentions what are my mentions I've been looking at like alien stuff at loads of different alien sightings that have been going on in like the 80s.

That's interesting. They're not new. So they haven't been going on. They were going on like 14 years ago. I've just been looking at a backlog of alien footage that's been out for years and years, but I'm hooked. We've been there.

I'm just down those rabbit holes every day. Yesterday I had a bit of a nightmare with my candle, with one of my candles. Does anyone else buy the candles from Tiger? Because they're so good. The big, fat, girthy, colourful ones. I buy many of them and I put them everywhere. Yesterday I was lying in bed, had all my candles on.

Oh God, I'm a bit scared. It was a full altar. It was a whole sort of biblical sort of church scene. Moment, you were married. I was in the middle. You were birthing a child. it was a full altar it was a whole sort of um biblical sort of church scene moment yeah i was in the middle you were birthing a child i was in a stable he was in a manger it's irrelevant but i heard this dripping noise and it honestly sounded like someone had just turned on a shower and i was like i looked around to the shower like what the hell that's like wait it's coming from my room i thought there was a leak in the roof or something no no I don't like where this is going one of my candles they'd been on for hours they were building up a huge well of

running out and I somehow it had like slit and all of the wax just and it went down I have these kind of shelves it went down oh my god it was gushing and i by the time i got there which was probably about five seconds later because i was like what the hell all dried all over low a pile of clothes which oh no yeah it was just all over everything basically at the bottom of the shelves was a pile of clothes um and they're just like waxed out really they're your wax clothes now honestly when i want to wear a bit of wax i wear those but it looks bad oh god yeah so don't really know what i'm gonna do about that but that happened yesterday well at least you didn't hurt yourself you didn't get burnt or anything no i was so happy my laptop

wasn't there oh my god or kind of your your new unborn jesus christ baby imagine my child i've killed my child with a tiger candle so that's what's been going on for me so it's been pretty bleak but um i'm loving the alien stories if anyone knows and has seen any alien sighting sightings within the last 20 40 years hit me up our DMs are open. Should we get into some porn? And have we even said what this is about yet? Yeah, I think so. Briefly. It's about porn. Let's do it. Okay, I wanted to start by discussing some of the results from the poll that we did on the story and exposing some people. Nice. I would be shaking in my boots if i had replied to us and then listen to the podcast and they say i'm gonna expose some people i'd be like oh my god no it's like i don't watch

porn i swear what's porn okay so 72 of you said that porn is mostly bad for society. Fine. Porn has made me insecure about my body, 63% of you said. Oh my God. But my partner watching porn doesn't bother me, 79%. Now, I would like to discuss the discrepancy there because I'm starting to think that someone's not being totally honest. Interesting. If porn is largely bad for society, porn has largely made you insecure about your body oh my boyfriend watching

it's totally fine i don't care i'm not fussed i'm a cool girl i'm not fussed about that i'm so laid back i'm so chilled i'm not naggy at all i thought that was an interesting stat the one about my partner watching it doesn't um affect me or it doesn't impact me or i don't have any thoughts on it you've just told me that it makes you insecure about your own body you've just told me you think it's largely bad for society. But the own person that you share your bed with, watching it, taking part, absolutely fine. You've got no thoughts on it.

Not phased. So I think for me, I see that as, okay, you're coming along in the journey that you're fine with identifying as a woman who is progressive and can admit to either A, watching porn or having a view on porn etc etc but you're still not ready to not be seen as like a naggy girlfriend you're too embarrassed to admit that something bothers you because you want to seem chilled and laid back totally i think if you

voted saying yes that no that it doesn't bother you at all yes you're fine with it um it's something really to interrogate would be like why is it so important that we seem okay with something that we've just acknowledged is potentially harmful whilst it has also to us on a pole it's like guys you don't have to lie to us we're just high precepts it's no big deal your boyfriend isn't seeing this yeah if you're lying to us about being okay with it but also imagine what you're doing in bed with him but also i do get that there are hugely empowering aspects of porn when it's done ethically and um sort of not with a huge huge fat shaming influence and like um sort of absolute like love of like surgery yeah so many issues that we will get into we know that porn is so

put through the male gaze and all of this stuff. So I think that's really interesting that people claim that they don't have any feelings about their partner watching it. Very interesting. Let's continue. You don't want to seem jealous. That's what's gutting you out. Yeah. I don't mind. I don't mind. Yeah. It's very interesting. Isn't it? I just think there's something not right there. Please explain it to me. Well, it's just not adding up to the other answers can we go through the other answers all of the results on the poll

because they were so yeah you guys really came through so so i started out do you watch porn yes said 69 of you hundreds of you do you pay for the porn you watch only three percent said yes minimal minimal there was a point honestly there was a point when hundreds and hundreds of people had voted no and like one person it was literally one single person had said yes they pay for porn which is in so interesting because it is such a saturated market that i understand that it's like why would i pay for something that could have for free i do very much understand that and should you so we'll get into it but then obviously there's this new rise of only fans we talk about our only fans episode where it's like you can now

just pay the creator for your content straight away but also my thing with that is okay so maybe we should say maybe we should go back and say our personal experience I don't watch porn you don't watch porn no the last time I watched porn was with you do you remember yeah oh that was the first and last time I watched porn which we you do you remember yeah oh that was the first and last time i watched porn which we started watching porn at like half 11 in the morning and watched a few videos looked at the clock on my phone and it was fucking quarter to four and i was like oh my god we've been watching porn all day just the two of us on the sofa like in the kitchen well i think we've got quite a weird relationship with it then in the sense that we personally don't get much like enjoyment out of it other than the fact we

can pass about four hours watching little to no enjoyment but all the curiosity all of the curiosity in the world but i think it's because i never watched it i never got into it early and i think if you are understanding your sexuality from an early age with watching porn you then continue that throughout your other sexual experiences I've just always been more of a fantasizer than like a watcher I'm it's just so much more internal than yeah that's true the hot bit of sex is not watching a dick go into vagina for me it's just it's the power dynamic it's I need to know like what are your political like motives in this situation. That's what's hot to me. Completely. Also, I completely agreed with somebody's message and I'll try and find it.

I'm not going to name you. Don't panic. Even though we're sitting here talking with our whole chests and you lot get to keep your little anonymity hats on. I can't find it. But essentially it was exactly how I feel. And it said like, I don't want to watch porn because I can't find it but it essentially it was exactly how I feel and it said like I don't want to watch porn because I don't find it enjoyable they're not attractive to me like I don't that's not what I want to watch so I'm not going to watch it and it's like

literally that well do you remember when we watched porn together that one time I do remember well when we were when we were watching porn that time for hours and hours on end and we were saying we could just make this so hot not the two of us but if we were directing this well i remember for a while we were like fuck i appreciate us let's make a porn company totally because i don't know that's still in the works by the way because i would love to make like a coming from two girls that like i don't want you i just don't think it's hot but the thing that's not hot about it that I just I think there is actually someone

that does it really well Erika Lust if anyone knows her she does think does it really well in that there's a story and it's like very Instagram and it's very like the sea god is coming out of the sea and it's like very like cinematic

yeah but I even think even the even those sorts of like oh this is empowering I quite love that like Erika Lust or like oh this is empowering like erica lust or like balessa and shit like that i think it's still not good enough balessa's still yeah no completely agree balessa remember we said it's like porn hasn't been filmed since 2011 yeah like why is everything so dated why they all got a belly button piercing and they've all got like long long long like um sort of french tip acrylics and like an eyebrow

piercing yeah like no offense if that's you that's so fine and all the boys have got frosted tips i don't understand yeah offense if that's you i don't understand who is filming this where they're getting these actors but the problem is these people are not attractive to me that is i do think there's this whole wave of like um homemade porn and i do understand that that would be more appealing because they at least look like real people that i i still don't find that hard completely agree because the people making homemade porn for some reason even on balessa which we looked on balessa if you remember and we're like okay so this is quote unquote empowering porn made for women then why are none of the women orgasming why are they all just

screeching their heads off and getting rammed in their ass yeah that was another thing that i wanted to do on the poll and i forgot and i just thought fuck it maybe i'll ask when this podcast goes out i'll do a poll accompanying so go on to the stories if you haven't already i wanted to ask have you ever faked an orgasm and see what the percentage was because i can only imagine oh well surely 100 just says it all if you're in a heteronormative like relationship or having heteronormative experiences yeah exactly you will have fatal orgasm because it's just it's so so so expected and so so horrifically normalized that it's almost like our duty to just make that experience like so pleasant for the man and just

like it would just sacrifice our own enjoyment in every way yeah also i think we should preface before we even get into this properly with in a similar way that we did to the only fans episode with that we are we are looking at this like analytically but we do we do completely acknowledge um empowering aspects of porn and like seeing women on film and how that has um allowed women to explore their own sexuality and their own kinks in a different way but i think we're also having to come from it come to it from like a critical lens because you have to that's most helpful that's most productive yeah so we've got a million and one thoughts here we're definitely not going to go through everything about porn this is not

porn 101 this is not porn hub um but we're gonna get into it as much as possible yeah exactly um so you said you did some research can you tell us what you found well my research was i didn't want this to be a podcast of your research was sitting on porn hub for like four hours my research was i did not want this to be a podcast where it was just two guys being like boys want this like boys just don't get this like men blah blah blah so i recruited a man i recruited my good friend yeah who will remain nameless oh my god amazing he who shall not be named you asked voldemort let me get up the chat because i had a convo with him a while ago and i was like this is the perfect thing that i really wanted to discuss yeah because he was saying that he after watching porn feels like a feel feels

a feeling of like guilt and like disappointment in himself yeah and like shame after watching porn I was like that's so interesting because you kind of think of it as um like they just kind of put it on their big old tv in the living room and have it blazing on like 80 volume 95 yeah but he was kind of saying that it's like you get taken away with this whole feeling and then after you've watched it you feel very like numb and like disgusted at yourself and i think that's so interesting because i think men the act of men watching porn has become so normalized that hearing a man talk about their experience of watching porn and specifically after they've watched porn is like really unique.

I'd never really heard that before. As in like, they have a weird feeling of themselves, like almost Catholic girl. Was he single? Asking for a friend. Ladies.

I'm not interested. Ladies who are single. Hit me up if you want his contact. Does he have a brother? No, but was he single when he felt these feelings of shame or was he in a relationship if you want his deets i can tell you we love a self-aware guy i'll give you his details guys but was he single when he felt that feeling he's single now yes okay i think he's felt it throughout his

his whole life like whenever he's watched porn regardless of being because also he voted on the story being like he wouldn't mind if his partner watched porn, regardless of being in a... Because also he voted on the story being like, he wouldn't mind if his partner watched porn. So I think that's... Exactly, yeah. It's interesting the discrepancy between men feeling that and women feeling that. Well, for a man to know that your partner watches porn,

it's like, cool. Because I saw quite a few boys say, yeah, oh my God, yeah, I don't care. It's like, yeah, of course you don't fucking care. That's so hot, dude. Is she bi? The more the merrier right so he said i might just read what he has said because i mean we don't know his name no no

we don't tom riddle so i said do you have any other thoughts on porn etc like what does it change your expectations of what sex should be just good to get a guy's thoughts and he said um i think no to it changing what expectations on sex are i think for the majority people are aware that real life is different i do think however if you were to ask most guys if it is toxic leads to insecure leads to insecurities that they would say no and then and they would honestly think that but i think subconsciously it has had a larger toxic effect on insecurities than they probably realize but i suppose there is a good there are good parts to it like sorry he's written this quite badly i must say i was gonna

say does this not make you fall in love with him a bit no it's quite sweet like it helps people find out what they're into and may have and what fetishes fetishes it why can't i fetish it yeah fetishes they may have and i said yeah i love that baby amazing so ridiculous there was a bit that he said that i wanted to talk about can you read the beginning again please sorry oh i just got oh sorry i think no to it changing the expectations of sex people are aware that sex is different in real life yeah i think that's easily said yeah like we're all aware that things are fake like yeah we're all aware that instagram is fake like yeah we're all aware that these things

aren't real and yet they go somewhere in our minds and make us act accordingly i don't think it's enough to just say yeah we're aware like but like we all know so it's fine i think there's definitely an impact of like we expect sex to go a certain way because we've seen that mirrored back to us a hundred and thousand times of times so quarantine's getting to me we've we've seen the blueprint of how sex should go so many times and it doesn't look great for women not gonna lie well when many of you so many of you on the poll said, hang on, when 72% of you said that you were under 18 when you started watching porn, it's all you've seen about how sex is supposed to go.

It's how you learn. It's been your education. Yeah, I think it goes somewhere into you. There's definitely, I think it's also for men. It's like, you know, real life is different for you, but it's still in your favour. It's still, you're still going to come at the end of it you're still it goes without saying it's almost a privilege that you've in the way that we're white and we never think about being white because that's our privilege and we don't have to think about it if you're a man and you're having sex you never think about if you're

going to get to come because you don't have to think about it because it's just a given well the only thing that would stop you is you like being too drunk or whatever or just any of those like it's kind of it's not like a social construct that you're just not supposed to or it's just it's not going to be set up in a way that is easy for you it's going to be made quite difficult because of basically he's just going to stick his dick in you he's just going to wank into you that is the blueprint of what porn is towards us and then you're expected to somehow to be oh my god yeah it's just like this you honestly may as well be putting a extra large tampon in you may as well be trying to get a moon cup in

that is so bleak that is so bleak and so disgustingly clinical yeah and yet so many boys are like wait but does it feel good when you put a tampon in oh my god it's so true i've heard that so don't tell me that porn hasn't gone anywhere because you don't understand literally anatomy one of my friends when we like were probably going through puberty was like oh my god when you take a tampon out you're gonna groan oh like oh my god what the hell because no one had taken a tampon out and then we were like oh god oh god what's gonna happen and then obviously when you take a tampon out it's just literally taking a tampon out and we were like you're a freak oh the scariest thing to hear when you're like 10 years old like this is also the difference in

that we were having that at like 10 years old so in like 2006 10 year olds now in um 2020 have all of their friends saying that and the internet yeah it's a totally different landscape when you take a tampon out you're going to quote unquote horrible words it's like say moan at least but yeah and i think the second part of his thing is quite interesting as well that it's led to insecurities in boys which is really interesting because it can't be good all around then it's an all-round nightmare scenario because a lot of basically in our question box, we put half of the people are saying, not even half, there's a huge mix of things,

but the main narratives that are going on are, it's really empowering, it's taught me about my fetish, why can't I fucking say fetishes? It's a hard word to say. Fetishes. And then a huge amount of people are saying, it's fucked up my body image, it's given me like unrealistic expectations.

Yes, both are completely valid, and both are are completely true it does exactly both of those things yeah but i would think that the people complaining about body image issues would not complaining the people like flagging up body image issues within porn would be women because those are the people that are sort of the ones you're supposed to look at those are the ones that are like held on the stage of like the woman with her huge huge boobs and the man is just almost like a vehicle for her pleasure on screen i do think that it's interesting that men would be looking at the men the male body and thinking that's giving me body image issues is he talking is he talking about body image issues because also he he could just be talking about performance issues in general interesting Interesting. Okay, yeah. Do you know what I mean?

Or just the way that they're having sex. Oh my God, so true. I think there's more to it. But do you, would you even look at the man in porn? I don't think I would even look at the man. No, I don't think you get to see him. I think his head's cut off the whole time. He's getting Mike Wazowski'd.

Really Mike Wazowski'd. Everyone, Mike was out skewed. Everyone know that scene in Monsters, when they put the barcode over Mike's face? Psychotic. That's honestly what they've done to him. They've Mike was out skewed every man in porn and it's literally just a floating dick and kind of six pack ramming a girl.

And yeah, who's getting the paycheck? Not Mia Khalifa. Literally. Oh my God, it's so shocking. It's bizarre. I think the main thing that gets me and i completely agree that there is space for porn to be empowering obviously and you know there's a there's a space for this of course but i think that narrative and that kind of notion is much more of a theoretical

dream than it is a tangible physical reality and a representation of what's happening today with the porn that we have access to today i think mainstream porn is not empowering or positive for the most part yeah well also i think we definitely felt that when we looked on balessa we looked on balessa because we were like okay it's like like sort of made for women it's like empowering porn love it well let's see let's check out this feminist like empowering porn why when we looked at it then was it i can't even explain oh yeah sure so it's not girls with their heads being flushed down the toilet that should never exist anyway but it's literally girls screaming their nut off it's like women aren't watching this because when they well the women that are watching it no for no that's fake yeah

it's not it's it's just so far i know that doesn't feel like anything oh i know that doesn't feel good oh i know that doesn't feel like anything at all you're lying yeah you're like you haven't touched the clit in 10 minutes it's interesting that we dress it up though so many messages and i completely agree we're saying about how porn makes you so much more performative because for so long what you see of sex is sex for a camera then you are having sex for a camera you're having sex for the view of somebody else you're not even thinking about what you're actually doing what's going on with you yeah it's all about whether you're a good enough actress literally it's just all um filtered through their lens yeah it's filtered through

their lens completely and it's like what does how does this look like this this is feeling for me for them it's like what like what are we doing it's bizarre yeah in order for them to think that they're having a good time i have to pretend that i'm having a good time and then their ego will inflate and then they'll think that i'm great yeah it's like eating a dinner but you're not even tasting it because you're going yum because the chef is watching it and you're like oh my god this is so good oh my god yum but you're not even tasting it and you haven't even tried it yet you hate it you hate the dinner you're allergic to the food it's covered in coriander it's disgusting yeah and you're going this is so good though. Oh my God, completely that.

That is how I experience porn to be. And we're talking about porn that's supposed to be feminist porn. Maybe we just have really high standards or something, but I am just unimpressed when it comes to anything marketed as feminist porn or... Feminist porn, sorry. Porn. Anything marketed as feminist porn or etc etc porn for women but i'm unimpressed into on two levels one of the huge like political like feminist way of like why is this not even

taking into regard like um female pleasure in any way like yeah sure there is lesbian porn and porn that is like more sensitive but it's nowhere near up to scratch and two i'm just so unimpressed by the aesthetic and there's no way that could ever ever ever be hot to me i can't get past the look it's like why are your hair extensions falling out i can't find this hot you know what bothers me with porn go on the category teen oh do you mean 18 do you mean 19 that's you mean an adult do you mean pedophile do you just mean pedophile go on is it like if you're calling it teen what look are you going for you're looking for a pre-pubescent female school girl school girl that's horrific so what is that bothers me because then when i did the question box on the story i'll read it how has

mainstream porn brackets female inferiority impacted you somebody have the nerve no i'm joking somebody in their experience said god so many amazing messages okay here we go porn also bdsm is not about female inferiority it is about power and control also for the submissive so yeah so please tell me why all the women in my dms are telling me how insecure it makes them or how it is not about the female orgasm or how as soon as the man has finished it's over i love the way you wrote that the way you read it's all about the man being superior therefore it is about female inferiority. And I think this porn is about empowerment and power and control and taboo and exploration.

That is a dream that has not been fulfilled yet. I think it's 100% possible and it would be great to have that in the future to be super accessible for everybody to enjoy and in cases learn from. I don't think that's the reality of what's happening now and I think it's really unfair to invalidate all of these women's experiences in the DMs and just in their own minds by saying well it makes me feel really comfortable yeah it makes me explore my

body you are a minority here well that's the thing it's like when we live in an already violent society yeah adding so then you're bringing violence into the realm of sex and calling it empowering it's like do you see how we're confused do you see how we're all losing our fucking minds here yeah because it's like we're what we're now being told that violence is not only normal but is desirable it's like no wonder we're fucked no wonder we're fucked up but also i do think if that is empowering for you what do i think if that's empowering for you because there's a part of me that thinks fucking go for it if you can find any empowerment if you can find any empowerment in this world fucking go for it but it's a shame that that comes from being beaten up why does your empowerment come from being beaten up that's not my ideal state of

being yeah and also beyond that it's like you have to understand that you may find generic porn on porn hub where the girl is getting her head flushed down the toilet or whatever empowering to you but please don't tell me that mainstream porn is not about female inferiority because if i take you through the stats it very much is so if you're going to find it empowering please also have the self-awareness i think it's your responsibility because there are categories for example like teen i can guarantee the most of those girls are the teens and it's not about um middle-aged women fucking teenage boys i'm telling you now if you say teen it's it's not about a fucking 18 year old, is it? No.

If you're saying teen, you don't mean the two years that you're a teenager, but also an adult. Obviously not. A teen is a fucking 15 year old. A teen is a 16 year old. A teen is not a consenting adult. But also the non-consensual one in that relationship

will nine times out of 10 always be the woman because the power dynamic of porn is always as the submit not always mostly as the submissive women and the dominant man which is literally mirrors what's going on more than anything yeah and it's just bringing that power dynamic into it's mainstream yeah porn where men are submissive oh that's um and inferior does exist of course but it's not mainstream porn sounds amazing honestly like a dream so that's why i find it interesting that so many that we can all agree here we're sat around saying yeah porn is mostly bad but i don't care if my boyfriend watches so what would you think because you you have a boyfriend what would

you i do what would you say what are your feelings on him watching porn slash does he out my my feelings on this are stay true the whole time yeah my if my awareness personal questions no no i was thinking i i need i want to say this if my understanding of mainstream porn is um involves is surrounded by female inferiority if my boyfriend is participating in that we're going to have an issue because female inferiority largely bugs me it's something that i don't know if you guys have noticed i care a lot about this so it's like in the way that you said you wouldn't date a Tory. Yeah. If our moral codes aren't aligned, or if our kind of ethical compass is kind of jittering in opposite directions, there's going to at least need to be a conversation.

So I'm lucky in that Jack would not consume teen, for example. He's not consuming that. Teen is crazy. And if he did, I would be be fucking bothered to say the least because it is bizarre and i think you are um i don't want to say naive but i would say you are ambitious to hope that your boyfriend is watching porn that you think is largely bad or that you think has made you insecure about your body but they know that it's not a reality and they know that it doesn't affect their actual experience with sex and their actual understanding of women i think that is naive and i think it's unfortunate that yeah you might think okay well that's me he knows it's not real and blah blah i personally don't like it but he knows

it's not real that doesn't change how it feels about me where's it gone then yeah it's gone somewhere into your mind and into your body and into your expectations. And also I'm comfortable enough in myself that if Jack was watching porn and it bothered me, I'm not embarrassed to say because I'm not fussed about looking like a naggy girlfriend or trying to be super cool and laid back.

If I'm jealous, for example, because I think that's a large part of it, or if I feel like there's some sort of discrepancy of morals yeah i'm gonna i'm gonna announce it i'll let it be known and you're not trying to be the cool girl no we were gonna do an episode on like the cool girl and i'm not other girl i'm not like other girl's girl and it's just such a confusing thing because it's like you don't want to be the naggy girlfriend it's like well why are you having to nag if your boyfriend is doing stuff that they know would affect affect your happiness and play on you why the fuck are you why you made to feel guilty for their act it's just so crazy to me that we've got to maintain this attitude of like

chill whilst at the same time being disrespected it's like okay so i literally you need to you need to be disrespected and not be angry about it you have no rights at the same time you're saying oh porn just hasn't affected me at all like i just know normal sex is different but the same time your hand is coming around my throat like it's just like what like sorry like how are you saying it hasn't affected you when you're trying to beat up your girlfriend yeah so oh dear and that's the tea well that is literally this message sums up every boyfriend has made oh fucking hell every boyfriend has made comments about my body how i need a smaller waist shelf booty etc and and you're made to feel like you're not allowed to say oh yeah

so depressing so then when your research um your case study your boy is coming in saying boys know that it's not real like largely for the most part like some of them do some of them don't etc but yeah why has every boyfriend this person has had made comments about their body saying they need a smaller waist well this is the thing i think it's like a large proportion of men are not responsible enough to be able to like whilst there are some self-aware guys like my friend is a self an example of a self-aware guy but a large proportion of guys are not self-aware and are not to be honest intelligent enough to be able to watch something consume something and then then not be able to continue that into their own sexual experiences

like don't let that it's like me watching an action film and then going around and shooting everyone it's like you need to understand that that is separate but i think that the jump isn't big enough because it looks exactly the same you're on a bed with someone else and it looks exactly the same so you think the behavior should be exactly the same yeah and i think it's because it doesn't affect them as in it doesn't affect them in a negative way in the same way that we don't have to think about being white when a boy watches porn there's nothing there that makes him uncomfortable because he's watched it since he was 11 years old and it's always looked like fun so why wouldn't he replicate it and the girls are acting like the women in porn

because we think okay they like that i'll just go a few times and that's what you do so it's like we're complicit in our own oppression in the same way because it's like the easy thing to do it's not easy how are they to know it's not easy to How are they to know? It's not easy to say, sorry, but that doesn't feel good. It feels like putting in a fucking extra large tampon. Like that doesn't feel good. Yeah. And it's easier just to be like, okay, I'll just like sort of just smile through the situation. Just like suck his dick and it's fine.

Smile and wave. Honestly, smile and wave, boys. Smile and wave. Depressing. But I think how many of us smile and wave? Because I've definitely been a smile and waver. All of 100% on the pole I'm gonna do have you ever faked an orgasm and we can honestly we can all smile and wave at each other read it and weep honestly well that's the thing with body image it's so um I mean that's my personal area of interest, a body image, kind of love that convo.

And I think that is, let me try and phrase this right. Well, I think it's really interesting because as you say, body image is your like a forte, is your point of interest. And yet you don't watch porn, but porn culture has impacted you. Well, I also think when we watch porn, me and you, reminiscing the good times

i was actually quite surprised with the amount of different kinds of bodies there were in porn yeah not even oh there there's like i not once looked at them and thought god they're so much more amazing than me no but not even in a way of like they've all got flat stomachs and they've all got like big gigantic tears not even that it's like everyone's vagina looks fucking different i was definitely surprised with like okay so some people have like big flaps and some people have like a bigger clit and things like that and it's like some people have like darker skin like vulva and things it's just like okay so there's there's a whole world of vaginas that i really did not know but it's like oh no they look very different they're like faces like they all look different face of the face of the bum faceless man obviously the faceless man

the many face god a vagina the many face god literally well speaking of how attractive we found the people in porn we got a really good message do you want to read it i loved this message more than fucking life itself let me get it let me get this right was it a dm or was it a question it was a dm it was a dm you're gonna have to go digging for that god okay here we go two hours later genuinely two hours later okay i found it i found it so uh-huh it said this wouldn't fit in the box but porn has made me question my sexuality a lot i get confused watching porn because i'm always attracted to the women and always find myself looking at them but that may be because that may be because porn is literally designed for men women in porn are meant to be focused on women

in porn are also super attractive and most of the time the guys aren't so i'm always like do i want to fuck girls or am i just watching a video heaped with misogyny lol and i completely completely love that because that's again what we were just talking about is in the women in porn are presented in a very different way to the men are like as you said they the men have been mike rosowski now they've got a fucking barcode over their face it's just a fucking body and they're not not a peep from the men oh not a peep you might hear a grunt shut your mouth we can't hear her literally not a peep from the men oh not a peep you might hear a grunt shut your mouth we can't hear her literally not a peep or they are literally just like a skin dildo um but yeah so i think that is probably a very common situation of being like oh god i prefer lesbian porn and also

lesbian porn is so much less fucking rough and bleak on the whole obviously there are all kinds of porn but on the whole because it doesn't have violence from men that is not so much i especially on balessa i thought we were looking at this and it was very true that um the lesbian porn was way more like filtered through this like soft like erotic lens rather than like this kind of like violent more sensual yeah but it's like why is that being why have they been put together like women with like sensitivity and like men would like kill them kill the bitch but also fuck the bitch it's like fuck her till she dies literally yeah yeah fuck her brains out what does he fuck her brains out isn't that crazy yeah split her open yeah just everything the whole all the language that we use

yeah exactly and it's just i think that's a really common thing with um looking at the women in porn and looking how the men are presented in porn and it's like okay so we're definitely definitely supposed to be focusing on the woman yet we're not focusing on her experience we're sort of watching a dramatized version of her experience for the male ego which is getting the man off because i also remember talking to my friend this one friend and he was saying that um what is hot to him in porn is watching the woman's reaction to what's happening and that's really funny from a female lens is that you know that reaction isn't real you know what's happening isn't happening to her she's not actually having an orgasm she's just

pretending to and it's like that's funny that that's what's hot to the man we're experiencing something we're having something done to us and we are faking the reaction we're pretending to have a reaction which we're not having so the man can be like gratified from that it's just like that's so strange and that's the part that they enjoy so all the men should just go off and have a wank together and all of the women should just start a new society where we live safely in harmony sounds great we can all move to what's your island called ikamarama guys you're welcome more than welcome my door is always open hope you like pears pears for breakfast lunch and dinner honestly yeah well i think that is a huge huge issue in porn and i think that's why a lot of women find

themselves drawn to lesbian porn in that it you're not having a fucking hand around your throat permanently and you're not feeling completely abused and if you are you're not fearing for your life yeah so i don't think that means you're a lesbian just means you don't like the norm within porn not even the norm within sex but very much what is seen as standard is it's because you can see the patriarchy from a milo it's because the misogyny stinks and it's putting you off it's honestly stinking through your laptop your vagina is drying up honestly at the thought of it why would that be hot it's annoying it's the opposite of what makes me angry the opposite of hot would be a man with frosted tips who's a floating head

that's had his head microzoused out of the shot not saying a word ramming into a vagina not so much just really angry like aggressively fingering a vagina doesn't know hasn't touched the clip ones and also the girl is screaming oh yeah oh baby and it's like what is happening it's like no one i've ever seen before it's like i don't i don't see this girl i don't am i supposed to see myself in this girl i can't relate yeah i cannot relate i that's what that's why porn just can't be for me i know there are so many different types and i do think i think we're gonna slowly but surely see the rise of more feminist porn or porn that we would think is feminist porn with our new company i'm joking but do message us if you eat camaradas poor yeah exactly if you would like

priestess porn let us know well that's the thing it's like i could just instantly make this better i just it's just i literally would just dye your hair i would just change your hair and it would just be so much better just the whole thing i would honestly just make sure that you and your family are okay because that also but it's like but i don't want to watch this because i know that kind of you're trying to pay for like your child's education and also why is it always in a kitchen a brightly lit kitchen it's like why did what the look again it's just it's so pre-2011 what i find funny about porn is they've tried to put a story on it like they've tried to be like if you read the descriptions they're like cammy's just got home from work she's had a hard day like and dylan said that like it's just like cammy never said that it's like the poor little kind of website runner has had to make up a good old reason as to why

they're having sex yeah they've got a little copywriter in there so it's basically just some people in a brightly lit kitchen that's like a show home. I don't know when they rented that house for the day. And it's like a whole... I think also the problem is they're too high def. It's like high definition. It's like my eyesight isn't even that good. Yeah, exactly. It's like this doesn't look like anything I've ever seen in my own life

other than a fucking movie. This is the thing. It's like, what's hotter to me? The fucking sex scenes in Call Me By Your Name where it's so intense and so palpable and it's so stunning or some people in the kitchen being aggressively fingered yeah it's not even a fucking competition yeah i think the longer we keep up this lie of like porn is so empowering for the most part porn makes me feel empowered for the most part the worse it will it will remain is there room

for empowerment though in the same way that only fans there's this huge yeah there is but it's not the mainstream i think mainstream porn for the large part is a massive problem to society yeah but what about things like balessa do you think that that is helping i think it's helping because i think the more feminist porn titles out there the the better because someone sees Balessa and goes, oh, okay, I didn't realise there was a gap in the market there. I'm going to come and, for example, us. Someone will come and be like, all right, I'll do it better too. Like, I want to join in on that.

Or, oh, I didn't realise that was what women actually wanted. Someone should offer that. But even that is still not good enough. It's still not good enough. It's not good enough, but I'd rather have it than nothing. Same, absolutely. I'd still rather have it. Like, I'm happy to have the kfc vegan burger absolutely that's exactly it that's it it's still at kfc but at least it's vegan and i think that is the lesser

it's like it's still girls getting rammed up the ass but at least i like i like the thought it's like honestly it's the thought that counts but the impact of it still can be slightly damaging because it's like okay so this is as feminist as sex has the possibility to be in 2020 in 2020 i was gonna say 2012 that's how behind i am wow in 2020 this is how feminist and empowering sex can look like but it still doesn't look anywhere near as empowering as my sex looks in real life it's just not what i want it's nothing to do with me i don't want it in my sight it's nothing to do with me so i'll just let this world tick over and just not get involved peace out couldn't be me but i do also think that couldn't be me if you

like porn it's not something to feel awful about but i think it's something that um i just honestly think it's like it's such a shame that the um the emphasis of sexuality has been put on like watching rather than like experience especially for women it's like the act of being observed is seen as hotter than like experiencing something yourself like for a man it's very like yeah active of like watching this woman and enjoying and getting gratification from like watching what you are doing to her but for a woman it's like getting gratification of like his approval of what you are pretending to do it's like that's quite that imbalance is huge and should not be like underestimated of like what that does to your psyche i think it's completely and it is yeah what it does to your psyche because as our male case

study said for the most part everyone knows that it's fake okay so why is our poll gonna say that 90 of you have faked an orgasm? You don't know it's fake because you're still faking it. We should have done that poll before, but it's going to be fucking crazy. We'll put it on the story, but we don't even fucking need a poll. There've been many, many polls of this before.

And I mean, anyone that has fucking female friends knows the answer. The orgasm gap is a thing. Fascinating, really. Depressing. I just think my main thing is, of course, porn can be empowering and i'm happy for you and i'm sure in many ways it is for us too you and i but i think what makes

me most sad is the narrative that girls aren't allowed to be upset about the violence that they see their boyfriends friends who are boys wanking too like, well, you told me you love me, but you also were wanking to a girl getting beaten up. And I'm not allowed to feel a certain way about that. I think porn just so, so much invalidates women and their experience in so many different ways, from the feelings that they have about it to the physical feeling that they're having

to pretend they're having or not having etc in so many ways is so damaging and you're not even allowed to be upset i think that i think the narrative that porn is empowering is so important and porn stars have my ultimate respect they really do like and mia i talk about mia kalifa all the time because i think she's great i think the queen yeah honestly i think it's really really it's what we said in only fans and it's what we say all the time is if you're going to watch your empowerment if you're going to watch your exploitation and be too stubborn to just sit around and you know not capitalize on it yourself more for you i think it's really really important that you might as well profit from your empowerment but at the same time it's really horrible that the

only women that the only way that women can be empowered is through being around up the fucking ass like it's just a shame but also um there is definitely room for empowerment in sex literally goes without saying oh oh goes without saying i love that that's our new thing is we say something that like really needs to be said so no one's ever said it before because i was saying really ridiculous well i hope this hasn't bummed you out too much in your isolation days and you can go watch porn if you like porn it is fucking fine absolutely if anything i encourage it i encourage it more than anything anything you're enjoying in life you should do more of it you have my permission i also think just just keep

questioning everything about yourself as usual we're all we're all just questioning i'm just questioning you're just questioning just think why do i think it's actually very hot to have a hand around my throat why is that hot to me yeah it's worth questioning um but we know the answer it's the patriarchy one word answer to it all spoiler patriarchy um yeah so i hope this hasn't bummed out your isolation even further i've enjoyed it personally yeah me too i love it i love it have you i love a kind of um a chat where we just scratch the surface of so much like there's so much history to this of like female oppression and women as object and man as like voyeur like there's so much history to it um and like voyeuristic desire is

like such a big big fucking huge topic that it's like you can't scratch the surface in a 50 minute podcast you really can't and i've still got bags and bags to say and i'm sure you guys all do too so please suitcases yeah honestly we're here with our luggage ready to unpack it on you if you consent yes um well thank you guys so so much genuinely thank you thank you for your messages we've really enjoyed yeah honestly really enjoyed reading them and it's just so i'm glad we can all be annoyed together me too and just thank you for all the support at the moment guys validating is selling like nobody's business and it's just so great we're just really feeling the love i'm like the money

is really great you're like we're feeling the love i'm like validating my voice is me well just thank you so much for like listening to our podcast buying our stuff fucking dming us with your fucking problems and just telling us that you enjoy the podcast and just like letting us talk to you it's just honestly so hashtag validating to be a part of this like discourse yeah thank you guys so genuinely thank you so much thank you we really mean it and we really hope that you're all safe and just hope you're having the best life ever or just mediocre i really hope you're having an amazing time i hope you're just not having a shit time like i just hope you're not having a shit time yeah but i hope they're like thriving i hope they're like getting just like gifts every day and like someone's waking them up with like

god that's a lot of pressure like that's what you guys deserve i hope you should get that somewhere when this is all over i'll be bringing you breakfast every day if you leave us a review. For each review, we're going to turn up your house with a vegan cooked breakfast. Regardless of whether you're a vegan or not, you're getting those Linda McCarney sausages.

Thank you guys so, so much. Thanks, Stephanie, for doing this. It's been fun. Thanks, Wing. It's been fun. Thank you to your male case study too. Well, thanks beep i'll tell him that he's featured a lot more than we thought he would i literally messaged him and now he's like oh god he's the backbone of this this community sorry i didn't realize i was the the one thread holding the thing together

cool right we'll speak to you guys later bye