Goes Without Saying - Pregnant Hes Watching Porn Off The Record

Episode Date: January 11, 2026

podmothers sephy & wing enter the chat: spiralling on porn and the patriarchy, boundaries and communication in relationships, and the normalisation of sexual exploitation.see more * youtube@sephyandwing * instagram@sephyandwing * tiktok @sephyandwing shop * www.sephyandwing.co.uk

Mah, Mah. Goes Without Saying, you're listening to Goes Without Saying with Seffi and Wing. I'm Seffi. And I'm Wing. And this is an episode of Off the Record, which we haven't done in ages and really allow like a personal insight into our lives, I think. We start off quite heavy. We're talking about porn, sexuality, women's bodies, pregnancy. We kind of go in. And it's kind of just a fun episode after that. So I really hope you enjoy. Hello. Hello. It just immediately broke up can we do that again can we just say hello yeah okay hello hello bloody how it's been oh i like your mug do you really reminds me my grandma's mug yes i remember yeah this is like if you're looking at the video now i'm sure your grandma owns this mug everyone i love it i love i've broken

into your grandma's house and i have stolen this mug i love that style i don't know where it came from found in the cupboard oh really it was probably something yeah I don't know who it is. I think it's someone that used to live in this house. That's nice. It's not mine. Someone's the old grandma's bought it over. And then, oh, I don't have them with me.

My mum the other day when she came to Norwich, she's been clearing out my grandma's house. And she found these, like, they're kind of wine glasses. Like, my grandma has definitely, like, she was not a drinker in any way. Like, no one in my family, like, on my mom's side drinks. Like, there's complete water people. And, like, they, she was like, I have these wine glasses. glasses they're like sherry glasses or something and she's like they're quite art deco and i was like that sounds cool so they're in like the boot of her car and she's just taking them to a charity shop

and they're like square wine glasses oh they're kind of cool they're like a squared flat bottom like i like the sound they're just quite cool so i took four of them good for you what were the stem and we just have them here or do they just sit yeah they have a stem cool they're really they're kind of cool they're really small but i've actually been using them and i was like they'll definitely get smashed it but it's better than them just going to a charity shot 100% put them to good use like like I've never seen her like I've got no attachment to them in any way that's fun but I was just like we're doing it off the record today it's about time I think we haven't done one in a while this season that's for sure no we haven't because we've been on such a run of heavy hitters I think or not even heavy

hitters but just I hate to say it great episodes forced my hand but I have to congratulate us great episodes these days yeah and this will also be a great episode, but like we just need a little chat, I think. I think it's like, they serve different purposes. Like, this isn't like for your first introduction to us, but this is for the people that are really in, almost. I think it's like, I would want this episode. This isn't going to bring a new audience, but it brings the closeness, I think.

I think also if you didn't know us, it might be a good test of like, can you tolerate us listening about whatever, da-da-da-da-da for 45 minutes. Oh, maybe you do quite like us. you should stick around and hear us have some real conversations. I don't see them like this isn't a real conversation. No, exactly. I think they are. Well, also, okay, so we've asked for questions on Instagram.

And I did just say a second ago, I saw a crazy message. And I think we should just start there. And this will definitely be a real conversation. Okay, okay. And I hope the rest will be fake. I hope everybody's ready for it. And I think we should just keep in mind this a real person. who's really asking for advice.

Okay. So basically, I think what's going to happen is, and I'm saying why I'm saying this when you hear the question, I think our instinct is to be like, no, that's not okay. Get rid of them. Yeah, da-da-da-da-da. And I really want us to take a second for this.

Okay. Okay. But I'll warn you, it isn't great. Okay. I'll warn you. I love something that aren't great. I'll warn you, you're not going to like it. And also, I think things don't have to make sense.

Like, some things are just, kind of weird. This is kind of a lesson I've been learning recently. Sometimes the advice that you would give to someone else going through a situation and what you are going to like actively choose for yourself don't always match up. No, often. Well, it's easier said than done. Yeah.

It's like I know this goes against advice I would actively give in this situation for someone in this situation. But I'm doing it anyway. At the moment, Cephy keeps asking me for words of wisdom about a certain situation. and I am just being like the only words of wisdom I can give is like just keep doing what you're going to do because there's no sense to be drawn in this situation I think sometimes it's just like there's no point sitting down and reflecting and trying to find you're too in it to be able to come with clarity it's like we're not going to find clarity for another like six to nine months so you may as well enjoy right now genuinely yeah couldn't agree more okay but this isn't a really enjoyable situation this is really fucked up and I'm almost want to message this person and be like, is it okay if we open this up to the group? Anonymously. Because I would love to know other people's thoughts.

Oh, God, it's really not good. Okay. He said, should I break up with my boyfriend? No, first part. No, I know the answer. Should I break up with my boyfriend for watching porn behind my back when I told him I don't like that? He watched it whilst I was pregnant and going through physical. and mental hell too.

So let's just let that in for a sec. Okay, okay. So first of all, congratulations on the pregnancy. I hope you're doing well. Congratulations. Is the babe are here? Congratulations. I mean, something about the babe with the power.

The babe with the power. So happy for you. Hope you're doing good. 100%. And I think this is, I'm glad that you prefaced it by saying, let's remember it's a real person, because sometimes I think I can forget. Yes.

Like, because it's so easy to be like, fuck him. Yeah. Blah blah, blah. Yes, this is a real person. There's nuance. All of the stuff. I do think that is like important. And also when you put into the context of like, there's a little baby involved here.

There's a lot going on here. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's like the we're coming from a place as a woman. You're pregnant. Your husband is watching porn. All of the stuff. Oh, God.

It's not a good. Yeah. No, no. I think I disagree with the actions of that. But I also understand that. that we're in a culture where this thing is completely normalised and I do actually understand if you haven't been having conversations about that

why that is just seen as like default for a man often just to be watching it they're not thinking critically about all of this stuff but they did say I told him I don't like that so this is where it's almost like it's where it changes it's always like can you call in quick because I need some more information on like yeah this whole thing this whole thing

because I find it really hard to give advice when I don't have all the information that I need to be able to come to a proper conclusion. Do you know what I mean? Like I like to have all of my ducks in a row. I like to really know the cards I have in hand before I play them. Like my advice to all of my friends always

is like don't reveal your cards too soon. When you've got something, you've learned some new information or whatever. I just almost think the more knowledge you've got, knowledge is power, the more power that you have. Power is power. It's just, I want people that I care about to be in as secure of a place as possible before they start making moves. And sometimes I think when you start kind of being like, you've done da-da-da-da-da.

Then you're sloppy. No, no, no. Don't be sloppy. Also, that's when emotions are high. Wait, wait. But I also think I'm against calculation, really. Like, I'm against, like, plotting and scheming. even though I am a plotter and a schema,

I do think you've got a child with this person. Like there is a partnership here. Like this is as partnered as it gets in life. I do think this maybe is a communication issue. Like I don't know how lot. It's a patriarchal issue. This is an issue of men's view of women's bodies. That is what this is about.

And I think communicating with the person you've chosen to have a child with about how that makes you feel is worth that like difficult, awkward conversation. conversation, it's so worth it. Like, it's so important that you've made it, like, clear how offensive you find that. I think as well, it's kind of like, you kind of said it when you were saying, like, about it's a patriarchal issue and it's about how, like,

you feel, like, women in their bodies feel and, I feel like, as well, the pregnancy aspect of this, it's like, cannot be overlooked. It cannot be overlooked. at a time when you are probably feeling particularly aware of like what is being put through, what your body is being put through and like... As a result of sex as a result of sex with a man and like the demands that are being made of you and like all of the things that you're giving and almost how I don't know it can be a tricky

time for a woman not just in pregnancy I've never been pregnant but just in life when you start reflecting on like the existential question. of like the way that you are being viewed just by innately who you are and all the things that comes with that it almost feels like pregnancy and porn are two of the most kind of pillars they they just epitomize so much they say so much about the state of like what it is to be a woman right now and men's responsibility as well like men how men can just detach and what sex is to men and what women's bodies are. Yeah, and the very real, like, consequences of, like, pain and, like, the labour that you

will be, not only, like, the literal labour of having the child, but the labour you will be doing in the future for this child. Oh, my God, it just brings up so much and the fact that they can, it's a lot, isn't it? I think I have a problem with it. I think I have a little problem here with the situation. I think I don't like it. I, first of all, commend you for having the conversation initially of, like, hey, I don't love that um i'm sure it is about time for another conversation if you haven't had one already i feel

like the crux of my advice given that we don't have that much info i feel like the main thing that i feel comfortable offering to you harry and i speak directly to you is to validate the way that you feel in this situation and i feel like yeah you're gonna it maybe you're feeling quite confused of like am I allowed to feel this annoyed about it? Am I allowed to feel this hurt by it? Am I allowed to make this request of this person that you don't do that or whatever? And also like wouldn't it be easier if I just didn't care and I could act like this was fine sort of thing.

I'm sure there's a huge part of you that is like I want to pretend this is all good so I don't have to deal with it. Also when you're at the super vulnerable time, like, Like, there's never a point probably where women need men more after the moment, during a pregnancy and after they've had a baby. Like, that is the time when a woman is most. Fragile. Like, you're dependent. You are quite literally dependent on other people.

But then I think it's important as well to remember that you haven't created this situation. And like, yeah, this isn't the circumstance that you would have chosen. But like, that was the mess that he made. And now you look around and go, oh, now I'm living in. this mess, but just a reminder, like, this wasn't the mess that you made and you're not choosing. And some people can look at a messy room and be like, this is fine for me. I don't care. But it's not your fault for being affected by the mess that you didn't make. And now don't worry about, like, I think don't put too much pressure on yourself of like, how are you going to clean up

this mess? I'm sure you'll find a way. But like, whatever you need to do to get through the messiness of this is okay. I also think, like, I don't know if I, I haven't taken this thought to its full conclusion. Go on then. Well, let's do it right here right now. But I think there's an element of like grace that can be given to the man here as well. Of like it's not this case of like it's not the most evil thing to do in the world watch porn. Okay.

It's not maybe what I would do or want to do or any of that stuff. But they are, men are detached from the reality of what that is. They don't, they really, really like the culture. is porn for men. Like, it's like football and porn. Like, that is their fucking thing. Like, I don't think, obviously, if this is a huge thing that you've had the conversation with and he's educated on this stuff and I'm sorry, but that probably will have to come down

to you if it hasn't already. I don't think it's like the hugest sin of all time. Oh my God, he watched porn when I was pregnant. I think it's like, the problem is if you've had this conversation, if he can understand why that would make you feel like absolute utter trash. because I'm with you 100% that that would make me feel like fucking shit. And I don't even think I can have a kid with a man anyway

because of the resent. You're already pushing your luck. Yeah. It's like I already think I'd be so fucking fuming. So like I'm with you 100%. But I think it's like if this is something that you don't think maybe you have discussed fully, I don't think in itself watching porn whilst your wife is pregnant is like I can understand how they in the like

completely desensitized way that they have literally been bred wouldn't which they have to be desensitized to even like enjoy consuming that content and there's a way in which we're all desensitized I do understand why that wouldn't have crossed his mind if he has just been raised as a general fucking man of this fucking world I think the thing is happening there's there are two kind of things that play here you're annoyed at your boyfriend for what he's done to you on a personal level and you're annoyed at society and how you feel functioning as a woman in it. And those are two separate things, but they are linked very delicately. And the ways that they kind of play out.

Through a baby. Yeah. And the society is interrupting your relationship and society is interrupting your personal existence as a woman. And these two kind of issues and these two like arenas for you to be annoyed in can be separate. but they're informing one another. Like you're going to feel more annoyed at your boyfriend because you're also annoyed at society. And that's okay, by the way,

for you to feel like that. If anything, I encourage it. My advice, I think mainly would be you need to have a big old conversation. Yeah. And I think it's not necessarily a question of like, do I need to break up with him? Because I don't know, do you?

Like, I think that's only something you can decide. And also, like, I don't know. as a child of split up parents i i'm not um here to these decisions are not rash like these decisions have like huge huge like generational effects and i think i'm there's nothing worse than staying with someone that is not yeah cut out for the thing but like it's obviously not a light decision it's fucking huge for you and your child let's forget him for a second it's fucking huge for the two of you I think yeah I think there's

grace that needs to be given on both sides when you enter these like things in like a fucking parental relationship with someone but it doesn't necessarily feel like if you're going in with the angle of like understanding his decisions I feel like he surely surely

surely must be able to empathise with how that would make you feel that's what I want that's what I want is like I know that the instinct will be to give him all the grace in the world because also it's easier for you. Yeah. If this is all fine, perfect.

That makes your life easier. And you don't want to feel hurt or betrayed or whatever by this person. But I think it's really, really important that in this conversation that you're having with them, that you feel a sense of like remorse and understanding. Like I really want you to feel from them. Yeah, that they understand you deeply and that they understand what they've done. done. Yeah. And they understand that the choice that they have made in doing that.

And like almost, this is where I'm projecting, but something I like to say is, you will never do that again. Like, you will never do that again. Just to be clear, yeah, yeah, yeah. We're having this conversation now and whatever and da-da-da-da-da-da. But just know, that's the last time you ever do that to me again. I'm not necessarily like, watch porn while I'm pregnant. That's the last time you do that ever again.

but I mean that's the last time you hurt me like this and I have to whatever explain to you and da da da da da da da yeah go on I think we've kind of I hope that has helped in some way I feel like all we've done really is just like validate I also think speak to your fucking friends maybe like trusted friends and I and when I say ever talk to your friends I mean be selective be clever be smart because there's some people that will not have nuance and will be like fuck him like there's some people that will be like yeah that's normal why would you care 100% I think it's like but also both of those

points of view they're coming from a place of yeah yeah that's like yes okay but I think you need someone bit like us someone you need someone who really understands you someone like seffian wing I think you need to have someone that will validate you but also not hold it against you if you do choose to stay. I think that's also really an important skill to have as a friend.

I've definitely had it before where my friends have told me something about someone they've been seeing or whatever, or like their boyfriend and then be like almost in the past being like, I can't go over this one thing. Like fuck them, blah, blah, blah. I do think there is a certain bit of you that like even if you don't understand that decision would be able to like support your friend within that relationship whilst you may not understand. I think sometimes it's easy as a friend to like impose your

yeah, the logical advice brain and like not take into account like emotions, deep feet, like all of the stuff is like that is all very fucking powerful stuff, you know? So I think talk to your friends but like be smart about it. Yeah, 100%.

I think it's important to speak to the friends but yeah I also think it's important to like if making this relationship work is important to you and you think that this is like a healthy good relationship for you to have that you want to continue, then it's really, really worth like spending a lot of time making that happen between the two of you, I think. Yeah. As long as you know that that's mutual.

I would really want to understand his relationship with porn, I think, would be like the crux of the conversation. I think of like, how important is that to you? Right. Because it seems to be you put it over your pregnant wife's feelings. So I need to know what that means to you. I want to know your understanding of that as something you consume. And why you prioritised that and why you thought that wasn't hurtful

and like really did like try and get away from like the societal like normalisation of it and being like you are watching someone have sex and wanking to it was I have our joint, quote marks, child inside my body that is about to like tear its way out in a few months. Excuse me. Physical and mental hell. It's fucking excuse me. Physical and mental hell was the quote.

That's insane. No. I just, I think that's the conversation that's needed. Yeah. I want you to feel really supported and like understood. And I think also just really, really look after yourself.

Like make sure you get what you need from today until forever. Make sure you are getting what you need to like feel good in yourself, in your relationship, like in your life. with your kids, whatever. Yeah. Yeah, you just need to be looking out for yourself as much as possible, I think. Yeah.

It's not good, though. Yeah, and I just think, do whatever is best for you. Agreed. There's, it's easy, like, the easy narrative is, dump him, bitch, like, oh my God. Whatever happens, but, like, the easy, it's not going to be easy. The logical. Yes, yes. Bit of it, but it doesn't take into account the hugeness of all of the other.

Also, I think maybe that is still valid. If you're anything like me, like I'll be thinking about this now for the rest of my life sort of thing. Like something like this happens to me. It's like that's probably not intentionally. That will loop back around every now and then. Something will happen and I think, oh, why am I just? Oh, flashback to when I was pregnant and you did that to me, whatever. Yeah.

And I think it's maybe if you feel like you connect with that, if someone has hurt you and you know that you are going to hold on to what they've done for a while, I think maybe share with them that like hey this is not something that is going to just go away for me and it's important that while it makes me feel like shit every now and then for the rest of my life you also experience that pain and you also feel shit every now and then for the rest of your life as a consequence of your actions this is also the whole thing about forgiveness that I think I have like a weird like sort of a deepness to that word that I think we throw it around like yeah I forgive you. Yes.

If that is happening, if that is, if that sort of rumination is happening, cropping up like quite often, to forgive someone is not like an easy task. I think we make it sound like, yeah, I've chosen to forgive him. That is a phrase that is often like kind of conflated with like, I've chosen to like brush it under the rug and just like ignore it. It's like to forgive someone is so active and so painful. Like it's a verb. Yeah, it's not an accident.

It's not something that happens easily. And it's not an easy time. It's not like a little easy task. I'm going to choose to forgive him. It's not checking a box. We use that almost as like I'm choosing that one day I will forgive him. Like you, that will come years, I think. Like, not even necessarily for this.

Like, I don't know how it truly does depend how deep your feelings are about this thing. But like when people have been cheated on and stuff in the past, I feel like it's so easy to be like, I'm going to forgive. I'm just forgiving him. And it's like, but are you or are you just staying? ignoring it and like harboring all those like resentful feelings because I think that's probably what you're doing. There's no forgive.

That is not, there doesn't look anything like forgiveness. It's like actually nothing to do with that emotion. I just really am feeling bad for that situation. Yeah. Yeah. It's not good guys. It's not good. I would really like to commend the person going through it.

Yeah. Physical and mental health. Pregnancy. This is my problem. with pregnancy. I think it's... I'm ready for physical and mental health. I think it's really, really valid to feel really hurt and let down by someone when they have done something that you've asked them not to do and like they've just, it feels like they've disregarded your feelings at a moment where you are particularly needing their support. Yeah. And why a feeling, you're feeling

so vulnerable at that point that, but that particular action is going to trigger huge things. Like, So much. It's about bodies. It's about women's bodies and sex, like, really. And, like, men's, like, constant, like, societal disregard and, like, abuse of them. That's what it's about. Yeah. As a vessel, as a something for pleasure, which is literally what you want to go.

Like, it's fucking huge. It's so huge. I don't. I hate now that we're talking about a real person because I feel like I'm going to say something and it's going to put something in somebody's head. It's probably already there. But, like... No, I don't...

What? Don't... I don't give them, like, a horrible thing that they... can like play over in their mind, I don't think. Okay. Well, now it sounds way worse than it was going to be, but... Okay, okay, I just... Well...

Okay. Oh. I just get scared because almost like, if I had written this in, and then it's like, okay, so a podcast that I listen to are now going to set, like, almost... I would assume if you're asking us this, you kind of trust our opinions. Yeah. I also just think we're a bunch of idiots as well. Like, don't listen to us.

I'm not going to say anything crazy. It's not a crazy opinion. It's more so just the... It's just amplifying what we've already said of, like, talking about like the way that women's bodies are used and I think in that situation specifically of being pregnant with somebody's child and then they do this whatever it feels like for example they can choose you to have the kid but in a moment of like seeking sexual pleasure they're choosing another woman's body over yours and that is incredibly emotional yeah it's huge it's like it's absolutely huge yeah yeah yeah no yeah that's okay I thought it was going to be something that

I would be like if I was in, oh, yeah, okay. Well, it's not nice, but like, no, it's, I think it's just as well, I kind of think some people will listen to this and be like, geez, is it really that big of a deal? Da-da-da-da-da. Yeah, no, this is why I think it's about working out your own relationship with it.

Like, some people, I genuinely have spoken to, and they've been like, yeah, I don't mind, like, I watch porn and blah, blah, blah, but I think it's also, I have a particular distaste for it. Like, I think it's really, um, I think as well, there's a certain level of naivety to, like, the reality. reality of like mainstream porn is not ethical porn and therefore i was having quite a frustrating

conversation about this and it's like sure you can be you can ignore that if you want but like i think basically a lot of people who say like oh that's fine that's normal that's i'm cool with that whatever it's just like first of what i don't believe you in second before i think you're an idiot no offense oh i don't know why i said that oh whatever but also i think it's like um i think you don't mind because you're not actually looking at the actual reality of it why do i shave my legs oh because it feels so good when they're smooth get a fucking life. I shave my legs because I live in a patriarchy. Next question. I, um, the one I particularly hate of those is, um, I shave my armpits because it's just cleaner. That's one that I find

very fresh. I said, no, I shave my armpits because I've been told the armpit hair on a woman is disgusting. That's why. And I'm, and I will not be coming to you for advice. I put, I put makeup on my face just. Hello? Anybody in there? Dummy? No offense. Because you've been told. You've been that's how to have some power in this world is to be pretty. It would be really nice to just move through the world and think, oh yeah, that's completely normal. And my boyfriend did that when I was pregnant. That's completely normal.

I feel nothing. Those people will be happier. But I do think they are sillier than you. They're not willing to look at the truth. Yeah, I agree. Sorry, that's just how I feel right now. Ask me again in two weeks. And also the truth, like, it can be true,

but I think you can also have a mutual understanding of your partner about the truth. To be like, we live in a massively, sensationalised and like desensitized world like we live in a completely fucked up space. But that's why I think society and the individual and the relationship are different. Like yeah, I want to in my relationship have a shared understanding of the society because if we think differently about the society and the patriarchy and like sex and what these things mean, that will inform how I feel that you're treating me. And it's like, yeah, I might not care if you do X, Y, Z when I'm pregnant.

if I know where that's coming from and I trust you and I trust that I'm heard and seen and understood and da-da-da-da-da-da-da. That's one thing. But you have broken a boundary. I read it in the DM. Therefore, the boundary has been broken. That's not what this is.

Yeah. At my most vulnerable time, that is the crucial moment. That's the crucial bit, I think, as well. Like, it's not you watch porn whilst I was like out on a fucking holiday, whatever. Well, I was sat next to you going, Should we watch them on?

No. We can have that conversation though. Of course. That's like, okay, we're talking about just our relationships with porn here and women's bodies and history of women's oppression and everything, blah, blah, blah, blah. But you did that whilst I have your child, your child inside me. You did that when I told you it didn't make me feel good. So. I'm about to give birth to a child that.

I don't love it. Excuse you. I don't love it. I can't. No, no, no, no, no. I hope that is helpful. Or like, you know, maybe. It's most unhelpful.

Maybe helpful is a strong word, but. I think, like, do what is best for you. Like, we are at the same time a bunch of, we're a couple of people that are, we're not in this situation, we're talking in our bedrooms, blah, blah, blah. We're not, like, feeling the emotions of it in that way. We're not you.

We don't know what you're going through. Yeah. I hope you're okay. But sending you up. So much. Yeah. Okay, this is actually a really good question. Okay.

I've never heard before in my life. Okay. I never heard such a question. Wait, what? If you were Jesus, what would your bread and wine be? Something to represent your blood and your body. So they said mine would be gravy and facacha.

Oh my God, I literally fucking love that. It's a good question, isn't it? Yes. What did they say? Bread and wine? That's what it is, isn't it? Yeah. Bread and wine, yeah.

I was picturing fish and lobes. Oh, great. Frischators. eat fish and chips when she was in the UK she made a TikTok about it and she's eating she's holding this like battered cod or whatever with her bare help and she's chomping on it and then she says it feels kind of biblical

and I keep saying why is she literally so hilarious but it does feel kind of biblical like there is some you're right Trishamid's there is something biblical about fish chips yeah battered cod though absolutely not um it's a good question what would your bread and wine be

go on you go first I don't know That's the thing I think I know what my wine is Go on them I think it's tea I was gonna say is mine a tea Yeah

It is nice That is That is coarsing through my veins Tea That's literally like That's what I'm built on I've actually just got boiled water

In this mug So it's not really that I thought you might say water And I was like I don't think you can I think it is Water is like my bread and butter. Like that is water is...

Yeah. The spice of life for me. Like water is like my true first love. But let's be real like tea is like tea. Yeah, I think I'd have to go for a tea as well. But there is a... I do also... I mean, Coke Zero is my life.

Oh my God, so true. I prefer the idea of tea running through my veins than Coke Zero. and coaxe. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it depends on what day you get me, I guess. I think tea is almost what I would want people to be drinking as, like, the ceremony of me as well. Like water, I feel like I'm giving everyone a cup of water. I don't want everyone pulling up to my church and cracking open a fucking can of Coke Zero.

Coke Zero. I also think tea is like around those, it means so much. It means like comfort, socialising. Oh, it's got divorced. So true It means like women's conversation It does Yeah it's like history

It literally is history I guess so we share blood And it's everything We share blood Although yours is cows milk Mine's soy milk That's fine That's fine

Mine specifically with soy milk Not oat milk Not almond It's with soy milk What's the bread Okay Because I did think Not to Jamie Lang it up

But I did think McVitties chocolate digest Oh my God I thought you're going to say not to Jamie Lang up but candy kittens. I've never heard you speak about Candy kittens being your bread. No, they're definitely not my bread, but I was just more so thinking with the tea.

I am obsessed with dipping a chocolate digestive into a cup of tea. But it's like, what am I a fucking old man? I know what my bread is. It doesn't go with the meal. You have these separately. I think this is my core essence tomato pasta. Like there is no way that. Like just like a classic tomato past like just delicious kind of spicy just like amazing yummy yummy yummy scrummy scurmy everything that is like my favourite fucking food.

I think mine might be a cherry pie. Oh my God I love it when have you ever in the fucking cherry pie? I've never seen that in my life. What cherry pie? Yours is a steak or ribs? Oh I do love ribs but I'm not really eating ribs all the time. I'm not eating steak a lot these days either but cherry pie is like that's my like. I grew up eating cherry pie.

Because me and my nun used to make cherry pie and apple pie. Cherry pie is my go-to. And every now and then my boyfriend will come home with a cherry pie that he's bought for me. I mean, that's delicious. And it kind of is my bread and butter, a cherry pie. Yeah. But kind of a Bakewell tart could also be up there for me or a chocolate tart. Those grey ones.

But then I am kind of going off that kind of because you said cherry pie and then it made me think of fake pot tart. Yeah. I'm trying to make my religion most appealing, but giving off cherry pie and tea. That is quite good. Yeah, tea and tomato pasta isn't really like. No, no, I think that's good as well. It's almost like then I want to make it wine, though, if I'm doing that.

Well, you can't copy Jesus. Someone's already did that. Mine's just pasta and wine. It's like a bit more yummy. It's delicious. I feel like mine would be bread and olive oil. Olive oil. It's quite great.

crazy for your wine to be olive oil. It's extra virgin olive oil. I almost feel like that is more accurate. Like, it's not. Tea is my... It's tea. I mean, yeah, but what represents your blood? Olive oil is quite good. I mean, it's obviously...

Olive oil and salt. Like, that's kind of my bread and wine. Yeah. But it's not, it's not. It is tea and tomato pasta, which doesn't go. I'm so sorry. I don't think it has to go because they're separate. you have them separately.

You can have your drink of choice with the pastor. And you can have a little snack with the tea if you want. But like, realistically, it is pastor. What a good question? That's an amazing question. I don't know why people don't ask that more often. I think you might start a trend. If you were Jesus.

Good question. Good question. I love that I'm God and my priority is sorting out my snacks. Oh, it's so true. Is it if I was Jesus? Yeah. I'd get a few things done. I'd probably be playing it a little bit more.

I don't really like the sound of getting crucified. If I was Jesus, I'd be a bit like... I'd be a bit like... Kill children and like give everyone diseases. I'd probably... Yeah, I think the death would stress me out more than most of the other thing. Your death. I really...

I don't like the idea of getting nailed to a cross. It doesn't sound great, no. That sounds probably like the one of the worst ways to go. So I feel like I'd be quite preoccupied with like trying to avoid that. You know? for a while and just keep my head down. I really, no, I would. I would. I would lay low. I'd be like, guys, these 12 people stop fucking following me, bitch.

No, I just came here normally. Leave me alone, people. Okay, okay, this is, I think, maybe a nice one. It's a bit self-indulgent, but it's a nice one to round us off, I think. How have you guys changed since starting the podcast, any valuable lessons? Oh my God. Where do we begin with that? I will say as well, elephant in the room is, when we got on this FaceTime today,

I did just, I was already crying. by the time you got on the local and that hasn't happened in a while um no no not at all that if i look like i've been crying because i have been crying well done you don't you look stunning that was my way of sort of getting you out of it i was like love your glasses love your hair don't know why i did that it was really nice it's not my usual um tactic you know i was i was really you know in a low moment but it works the compliments just oh god it's all i need my head just started to expand and I floated back up to the surface you look amazing what a weird thing to do but yeah I feel like we've had a lot of I was thinking actually I found I think it was like an old

notes in my phone that was like um core principles and I'd like written it out and it was like a thing that you'd clearly been like please could you send me your core principles for this which is something that wing sometimes will say yeah I feel like that kind of needs to explaining. You'll sometimes be like, please send me a list of words that you associate with Sephir and Wing. Like, it will just be like one of the, I don't know, that's just like one of the things we've kind of always.

It's normally like, if I'm, then it'll be like, and then three months later a new cover art appears where it's just like, it's just to make sure like, what's the page that we're on and like, how are you seeing this sort of thing? Let me get the core principles that we wrote that I found. And I remember this was a time we were just about to go on. the home page of Apple. This was when I was in Seattle. And we had just got the like...

Oh yeah, we're on the Apple Spotlight thing. Yeah. I do kind of remember that phrase core principles. Couldn't have been that called. I've written it like that as well. Oh my God, that's cute. Yeah, I've written it like, okay. Do you want to hear the core principles?

So these are like the things that at the time are... Let's judge if we're still living by the... these core principles or if we've kind of lost our footing. That's nice, yeah. So, core principles. Number one, we are the priority, how we feel individually, our friendship, and feeling good in our lives and in the space.

Such assholes, yeah, I completely agree, though. Yeah, I completely agree. Number two, it is a fun, exciting and loving space for us. Sorry, this is so ridiculous. Pathetic. Yeah. I agree. This has...

Number three. We can be real in capitals and true to ourselves at all times. Real. We can be... And true to ourselves at all times. Real. It's like, trust me, you do not want to do that. Real.

Okay. So far so good. Okay, this one here, we're getting slightly more. Okay, I think this is fair. Okay. Number four, it is not our responsibility to solve other people's problems and be everything they want us to be. We show up as ourselves and if they like it, they can come along. Whoa. Slightly aggressive.

To where that came from. Also, this was written in 2023. So we were clearly going through something. I feel like maybe we thought we had something we had to solve people's problems. From what I can see, these are your core principles. so I'm actually a free agent on this one. I know. So do I.

It's like I think I don't necessarily at the moment feel any response to be to just solve people's problems. But I think maybe at the time like almost feeling the thing to like I need to give the best advice. Like I need this to be right. And actually it's like obviously can't do that. I don't can't solve the problems but like can give advice and all that stuff. That is. I think maybe I felt a bit way of the world. Yeah.

Definitely is interesting. that that's your fourth core principle. Okay, number five is the fifth and final core principle. Core principle. Okay. Oh, God. Oh, God. Go on.

It's got some of our internal language in them. Okay, number five. This was, this. Is it? Yeah, that's it. Okay, but even worse. Okay. This was built on love and fun, so it only really grows on love and fun.

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God, we can realign at any point. I really like that. And stay in touch. Stay in touch with the higher fire. Okay, there's a lot happening here. I knew it would come down to the higher fire, though. It always does. That's the final sentence.

It all comes back. All roads lead to the higher fire. The flame. The flames. So bad. I mean, I love it. I think it's actually really interesting to reflect on core principles from 2023. from two years ago.

And like we completely, also some of those like, I agree, I disagree. I mean, I do agree with the essence of all of them. Yeah,

I mean, it's true. It's fun, it's loving, it's a real space for us and we're the priority, our friendship is a priority. I feel like,

that's something we lead with still often. Yeah. Oh, all the time we talk about that. I think the essence, the essence of this and the bits that I think, the thing that is most important about this

is that me and you together feel good. like this does not exist without that like if that foundation is not strong the house crumbles like that has always been and will always be kind of the only thing this is fucking standing on so like I do feel like that is the it's not even really a lesson because we've known that since the beginning but that has always been the core principle I think it was number one we are the priority how we feel individually our friendship and feeling good in our lives and space. God, it's not a lot to ask, is it? Just feel good in yourself, in the space, in your life, in your friendship. But yeah, I agree with it entirely. I like thinking about, because yeah,

it is interesting because I know if I were to message you today and be like, can you send me a list of your core principles? I wasn't using that language, but can you send me a list of like what you're feeling right now? I know that you wouldn't say, I don't have to solve everybody. these problems. Sol people's problems. And it is really interesting to think about, it kind of shifts like right before your very eyes. You don't even notice,

but the problems that you used to have and not the problems. That's not to say there aren't problems. But like, it's funny how the things you're focused on change. And we've let that go. Because almost there used to be a thing where I used to, before recording, be like, I stole it from Oprah where she'd be like,

how can I be of service in this episode? Like, how can I help here? and I actually don't do that anymore. I don't know if that's good or bad. But like, I don't do that anymore because it's just like... That's not the priority. It feels really wanky and it's not really something I would do. And I'm not Oprah.

Yeah. And I almost feel like whilst this is... This is and is not about service, you know? Yeah. I think for me personally, I wonder how if you would agree, I don't want to put words into your mouth. And it's something we have spoken about. a few times is that I think obviously the foundations of this is our friendship and being okay

and all of that stuff yeah but I think why the content works for people is totally on them and it is all about that transference of like I can't sit down and like decide to be of service to you and give you something no it's all about I think largely the recipient being in that moment of your lives and like hearing something and it just lands for you that day and six months later it doesn't mean anything to you or like you listen to an episode one time means nothing and then a year later you go back and revisit and it's like oh god that that chunk was exactly what I needed to hear yeah I think it's more about the transference than it is about like sitting down and deciding to be of service because I feel like that speaks to the

pressure that we felt we were under this is not our responsibility also that list speaks to most of all the ability to like almost like things hit you in certain moments like that list was clearly written on a particular day where I was feeling some kind of pressure to solve a problem which probably that hasn't been like one of the main feelings of doing this in any way so like yeah things do just hit you in different ways like

yeah it's really funny to think about do you have like a main lesson should I see a Should I search on my notes for core principles and see if anything comes up? Core principles, yeah. Oh God, can I expose my... I always see one as well that I love that was always in my notes. Because you know when one sticks out to you when they have like the little drawing you've done? I've done one that says wing and there's like a list of adjectives around about you.

Oh, that's nice. And there's also one called YouTube. They all have like a... Look at that. Oh, that's so cute. And then it's like our ideas for our YouTube back in the day. I don't have a core principle. note.

Oops. Oh, damn it. But I do have hundreds of thousands of notes on goes without saying. This is quite funny on the one that says wing. It says wing and then it has like a underheading and it says magical and wise and witty. I think that was because, was that in 2023 as well? That was 25th of March, 2020. Yeah, I remember at the time I had a therapist that said to me, I want you to get all of your friends and people that know you to

list three adjectives or whatever three positive adjectives about you and like list some things they like about you um okay that makes sense yeah because i've got screenshots magical and wise yeah i've got screenshots of those on my phone which is really nice oh that's so nice what do you think is the most valuable lesson you've learned throughout this whole process well what did you say i didn't i just pushed it back on you well go on why don't you so oh i don't know bloody hell I think it depends on what day you ask me first of all. So today I'll say one of them is, I feel like it's refrained my idea of like what is possible

because I used to think, oh my God. How are you going to start a podcast because who the fuck is going to listen? Like how are you going to get people to listen to that? Like almost, I just, the absence of an audience was like everything to me. Like I was just like, there's no way that there's going to be people. I can't think of like more than.

five people who are going to what naturally find it or like see it somewhere and start listening like that just seemed ridiculous and i feel like it's allowed me to reframe what is possible in life and like that like i just used to think always like i know we're doing something good but like how are people going to find it and like when are they going to find it and are people going to find it and then you found us which is so nice um but i think i just thought that that kind of would have been not a possibility and it is a possibility and like I always talk about like there's a kind of void in the world for you to fill and it doesn't necessarily feel like it you don't walk through life knowing the gaps in the market that you could fill but they are there and you can

like dig out a space for yourself I hope and I want that for you if that's what you want um yeah that's one yeah no I agree um yeah I yeah I I think it teaches the lesson that like quite a big lesson has been the length of time and the amount of effort it has taken are huge. Like it's not, it's like this can all happen. If you fucking dedicate to like kind of a level I didn't really know I was like capable of doing like I didn't really know I was like capable of doing like I didn't really when we set out to it know that I would have no money for like three years. Like it's kind, it's sort of like, you get no money from it, no listens at the beginning, all of the stuff. But like, I think we had a vision when we started off. Like, we had this folder.

Oh God. Purple folder with all our stuff in. And in there, there was like a, um, a timeline. A plan, like a one year plan of what we were going to do. And at the end, it was like 100,000 followers. And that was like in the December of the year. Like it was like, this year, this month we gain like 30,000. Then we gain like 60,000 that year, that month.

and then like there then we just do that, that, that, that, that, by the end we're millionaires. Yeah. Like, yeah, that's the kind of level of delusion you need at the beginning. And, like, I feel like, I guess we still kind of have that level of delusion. But I think I didn't know how much work was needed to get the thing. And that I would do that.

Like, it's kind of nice to be like, oh, yeah, like, you can really commit to something. 100%. For, like, your whole world. 20s essentially. Like you can really commit to something for like what we're doing like five years. Like that's kind of crazy. It is. It's really crazy. Best years of your life. The best, the best times. It's definitely like the best thing ever if you ask me. Yeah. Yeah. It's definitely the best thing ever. I do also feel like we are in a really good point with it. Like I've never felt better in it. And if I feel like my core principles today would be, I'd be feeling really strong and like aligned in them all. like I feel very confident in us in the thing now

and I feel very excited for like what this year has in store whatever it may be and also should we say a big thank you to everyone's love and support on the billboard capital BIDG billboard so have we we haven't spoken to you guys since that have we guys what the fuck

crazy really nice kind of a crazy moment huh really nice oh if you haven't seen our vlog Yeah. You can see us like at the Billboard. Like I'm sure like you guys might have seen the post of us there. But like if you watch our vlog, it's on YouTube, which was so fun to do by the way. How cute. And so much love on it.

So. Yeah. So thank you. A lot of love on like that format. And I think it doesn't really work for us. Yeah. So we're calling it a bouquet. Yeah.

And it does work. I think people. Yeah. I don't know. I definitely feel. Basically it's just like little clips from our lives and then there's one bit we go out for dinner with Freya. We're at the billboard. It climaxes.

up in front of a fucking billboard with our faces on which is nuts it's mental so like go and watch that because I actually do think it's really cute I love it I really love it I'm excited to like do the next month's one as well I think we're thinking of doing one every month I think so I think that is a perfect yeah little format yeah um yeah all right yeah okay perfect sending love to everybody oh my god 100% especially the person from the beginning oh god especially the person from the beginning. I hope that there will be a few people out there. Remember we used to hold hands? Can we just all hold hands for a second?

Can you just send a bit of hand holding to this person at the beginning? Honestly, stronger together. Colbert is weaker or whatever he says. So good. All right. If you don't hear from us. If you don't hear from us, assume the worst.