Goes Without Saying - prioritising pleasure: the yassification of misery

Episode Date: January 31, 2022

hedonism walked so your main character complex could run. in this wholesome episode of Goes Without Saying, sephy & wing unpack boundaries, self-respect, romanticising life, and all of the ways in which we disregard our own happiness to appease the opinions of others. reformed people-pleasers say ~hell yeah !!join the conversation every monday.come and chat in our book club!speak your mind on the @sephyandwing instagram!you’re invited to our discord group chat: https://discord.gg/zuPH7gyeGp Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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And I proudly present to you... Nice! I honestly think one of the most I mean I've taken great comfort in this episode I think one of the most comforting episodes we've ever done I really think this is a great episode if you're feeling anxious stressed worried fucking panicking freaking out about god knows what I can only imagine i think this is really nice for like an hour to kind of take your mind off things but also just kind of remind you give you a bit of perspective that things are going to work out you've worked out every single time before you've always got through it every stressful week has been passed you've done them

you can do this stressful week that's coming up you've got it it's all good i feel like we've got some good little nuggets of wisdom buried somewhere deep deep within this episode with some tips with some jokes with some laughs close to tears you know the drill okay hi another episode of goes without saying another episode another week has passed somehow how on earth god knows time is not real no it isn't some weeks it feels like ages that i'm like god we haven't recorded in ages i haven't spoken to you in so long then it's like wait i spoke to you two seconds ago oh it's because we recorded the patreon episode the bunny episode yeah we did we did a book club episode have we not been speaking a lot recently i feel like we have which i've never had less to say to be honest so i feel bad for you i don't know what i'm going on about these days i feel honestly quite empty not in a depressed way

but just in a like i really i'm excited for just some time to sleep. I woke up at 3am. So that's the vibe that I'm giving. I don't need to say anything else. I'm excited to sleep. What about you? I'm quite excited to sleep as well, but I slept till 10am.

So I kind of have no excuse. Yeah, that's beautiful. I know. I'm sleeping late. No, of course. You know what I don't approve of? That I'm more tired than you really you think you're that tired i've had to do this this and this and i'm that tired i've been doing x y and

exactly boring take your medals and go back to bed we go but then i also think you don't want to be the person in life that's like always tired but i think i kind of am that person i don't think i am that person which is kind of weird no no i don't think you are at all no no i didn't think that you were saying i was but i really used to be i'm not gonna lie always tired i used to be always tired but that's because i had like severe mental health issues and health issues to be honest i was just dragging myself through every day it's like yeah you're not good babe go to bed but i'm not feeling like i'm low energy these days although i am physically not like my body would tell you otherwise i don't think you're tired girl no no but i think it's that's because i'm high energy

but i'm always yawning i think you're always yawning because you're rude no i'm joking duality people bore me you are always yawning that's true always yawning but then i'm also then running around like a little chipmunk i don't really know yeah is this boring i'd be yawning listening to this show i'm surprised you're not yawning right now uh okay well i wonder how everyone else is would honestly would love to know like what are you up to on your walk going to uni yeah you got going around the shops doing your little weekly shop going to work are you at work are you in the bath in the bath oh if you're in the bath right now i know my god probably walking i feel like everyone's walking their dog when they listen to this people get up to quite

crazy things when they listen to this do they i'm you know what i don't know if i've said this on the podcast but we've had we always get messages with people being like oh and my my brother thinks you guys are so funny or whatever and i'm like god don't tell me we're on the alexa and everyone's catching the last end of a sentence and oh like dad my dad thinks you're hilarious it's like shit oh yeah my dad that one scared me even your anyone i just think anyone catching the end of a sentence or like a small part of the combo yeah it's like you have to to be honest have the full hour experience and even then you probably can't understand what's going on yeah it's terrifying i think the idea of us being played aloud it's really embarrassing okay let's start should we get into it yeah we're talking

about prioritizing pleasure pleasure pleasure island i thought there were some really interesting responses on the instagram to i think people have been getting confused by the way every week before the episode we post about the episode that we're going to record and you can share your thoughts on the topic and then we go through your thoughts and then we record the episode and then the episode comes out and the cycle continues on and on until the end of time um so that's how you participate that's what that whole setup is but there were a lot of really different ideas of what prioritizing pleasure means to people i thought in the responses which i thought was quite nice yeah same i wanted to say at the very beginning it's like we don't necessarily mean sexual but you can 100 go there if you want

yeah and so many people were like I'm going there I love my vibrator things like that I was like yeah go there go there it was so different because there was some yeah I love my vibrator blah blah blah and there were some people that were like making a cup of tea just before bed and watching YouTube videos it's like love the spectrum of pleasure here that just really put a blanket around my heart i know getting a tea oh god i think i don't know if he's playing with us before it's kind of the same thing about playing the podcast out loud like i don't know if we said this on the podcast but i find youtube to be very personal so personal like a very intimate experience being sat on your own watching

youtube videos like your youtube search history or just your youtube history is such a funny place there was the embarrassing thing that my sister me and my sister were like i don't know but she'd she was staying at mine she was like can i look through your youtube search history just as a laugh and i was like oh god recipe for just honestly like 100 going to be a laugh like that is exactly where you get your laugh so embarrassing and we were laughing because it was like kieran colkin best moments lin-manuel miranda one the one that i thought was so embarrassing i don't really know why was vegan bento boxes i don't know why that's so good that i've typed in vegan bento boxes it's such a hopeful place the youtube search bar it's the potential

of what you think you're gonna find it's embarrassing because it's embarrassing to have searched vegan bento boxes and then never have made a vegan bento box so funny it's so good how embarrassing is that it's so good like i was honestly going red so i do think watching youtube you can't someone else going through your like the people you watch the people that inspire and quite go influence you so embarrassing that you feel like you know it's a lot isn't it what brings you pleasure i was gonna say i'm gonna say it now what brings you pleasure um okay let me think lots of things lots of things bring me pleasure i think we were actually kind of having

kind of this discussion off just a second ago before we started recording. I think so many things have the potential to bring me pleasure if I allow them to. Yeah. Basically, if I choose to take pleasure from it rather than pain or stress or anxiety or fear or... And totally ruin it.

Exactly. And ruin the experience that I'm having. It's like, there are a ton, there's not one single thing. There's a ton of things, experiences, people, moments, whatever, that bring me pleasure. The problem is, the common denominator here... I know who the problem is. Is little old me.

know to hear i know who the problem is is little old me um because i have this magical power to turn anything that could be a fun just pure pleasure experience into a pure stressful a living hell yeah living hell i think i have the same magical power what what um can i throw it back to you can you give me some examples yeah i think it's the exact same answer just there's a huge variety of stuff but it's just dependent on am i going to twist and change that thing into a hell or am i going to be like no my cup of tea is delicious today yeah allow myself to enjoy it i was watching a video a youtube video of lexi lexi lombard yeah yes yeah who i wasn't familiar with until i listened to her podcast and i think a lot there must be a bit

of an overlap between our podcasts there's a crossover here for sure yeah i wasn't really aware of her and oh my god i love her whole vibe but i was watching a video of her and she ordered a coffee she got a coffee from somewhere she didn't like it it sounded it was a s'mores coffee i thought that sounds delicious but she didn't like it then she was like i'm gonna go to a different coffee shop um i know it's wasteful that she did the whole chat disclaimer before everyone hates lexi um and she was like i'm gonna go get another coffee that i know i will love and i thought that's dedication lexi it is and to be like i know i will love it not i know i'll like it oh like i didn't like this one i'm gonna go get one i will like it's like i'm gonna

get a coffee that i know i will love and i just thought i don't live like that i don't live in the way of i'm gonna get you i want to more i want to more don't you i don't think i how do you not do that for example like what in your day looks like you're not doing that i don't think i how do you not do that for example like what in your day looks like you're not doing that i don't think i take the mundane and make it special right i think that's a real example of like i'm going to go on my walk that i love and get a coffee that i love and it's a real intentional walk and coffee i think before i know it i've just done it and i'm like oh did i did i like my coffee I don't know I just drank my coffee yeah oh my coffee's gone yeah like when did that happen or my body's

gone it just says use it well oh so cute it's so cute I just thought that was a real example of um I don't know taking something that is an everyday thing and making it pleasurable and being like acknowledging i do this because i love it yeah and i really liked it just a small moment and i thought you're inspirational lexi that is yeah i agree i actually completely completely agree i think there are a few things here working against us one i think it's a really common one and i think you experience it in different ways but the guilt of enjoying something yeah i think people have guilt around pleasure guilt around yeah guilty pleasure hey yeah oh look at that look what we did there

such wordsmiths such wordsmiths um so cleverly awful yeah i think people have guilt around feeling like oh i can't be enjoying myself because i have like real shit to be doing and like life is about being miserable and like putting all of my time into something that i hate and blah blah blah and it's just like you know who do i think I am to have a good time to enjoy my life yeah and I think another part of that guilt is the kind of is that sort of thing of like it's embarrassing to declare that you want to enjoy things in life it's like you shouldn't want good things for yourself that's it it's the embarrassment this is actually a whole thing that I'm discussing quite a lot with two of my friends at the moment

it's a bit of a um a back and forth of me not really understanding their point of view wow they have the same point of view they say that they would rather not try and like for example they use the example of like getting ready in the morning they would rather wear an outfit they like less and that is less nice i guess out of fear of looking like they've tried oh which i literally was saying i don't understand you i don't get it because or like maybe i do get it but stop it they would rather wear like a coat that they don't like as much because they don't they don't want to look like oh she fucking loves her coat because it's embarrassing to look like you've tried yeah i just think it's the saddest thing i've ever had it is really sad but i think that's kind of where we are because it's it's why it's like you'll be texting someone for eight months and not have admitted that you

like them because you have to pretend that you don't really give a shit about each other but you're seeing them every week for eight months straight yeah all of these types of things or going for four job interviews and not getting it and pretending that you're not upset about not getting the job but you've just dedicated six weeks to going back and forth these interviews but now you have to pretend that you don't care yeah or you've just had a breakup and spent two years with someone and now you're not with them and you have to be i'm actually fine i'm surprisingly really good like i haven't even thought that much about it like i guess i'm just on to better things haha weird behavior from us it's so weird or you have to be sad but in the most palatable way if you didn't get the job or

the boy you like rejected you or your boyfriend's just broken up with you or whatever's happened to you you didn't get the role in your audition you have to be sad you can't go out and be happy about it but you have to be sad in this weird way that's like very passive and muted and kind of there's a time limit on your sadness but it's like actually if i want to fucking wallow for fucking months allow it even then i think it's so censored i think people will be sharing like a real moment of frustration or like heartbreak or whatever even with their closest friends and they're still running it through a filter of not wanting to come across really like they gave a shit when you obviously did like we all do it's the classic phrase that we all do

which is like i don't even know why i'm saying i'm like not even that sad i don't know why i'm crying yeah i don't know why i'm crying i don't know why i'm crying it's like god that's my catchphrase and stop it yeah i don't even know why like i'm not even sad but don't you think don't you think it's so censored it really is does something just fall down yeah outside like across the street and got nothing to do with me the idea of not doing something out of embarrassment or not saying how you feel out of embarrassment or for example not wearing the coat you want to wear because you're embarrassed that people will think you're wearing a coat that you like i just find that so sad i actually find it um a sad state of affairs like i just think where are we heading as a society then that we're

all kind of hiding ourselves for what our embarrassment to apathy to complete gray doom and apathy i think wear what you want to wear because you like it eat what you want talk about seem the worst yeah literally eat what you want because you like it don't choose the thing that you want to appear like you like i find it so strange so you've said something interesting there i think oh well you're always saying interesting things don't get me twisted but i think it's interesting to think about eat what you like because you like it not because you want to be you want to you think you whatever blah blah i think figuring out what you like figuring out what prioritizing pleasure looks like for you is a long journey i think a lot of people aren't sure especially when they start being a bit more

investigative on their habits i think it's really easy to get yourself in a bit of a cycle of thinking okay do i like reading for example have i just always been a reader yeah and now i just read and blah blah or am i this person who does these things or maybe i should try something else do i like sandwiches or have i just always maybe i should try something else do i like sandwiches or have i just always had a sandwich for lunch like do i actually like sandwiches i don't i definitely do i'm all about bread i was actually watching something it was in kanto and they had this huge huge loaf of bread i thought god just in the first five minutes the opening song was like this is my family blah blah this is what i was watching at 3am it's been a long day guys and she's running around with everyone we've

got this big loaf of bread like there's a stack of oh my god all these loaves of bread in a in a heap i thought god that bread looks delicious that bread it looks amazing a loaf of bread and i thought oh my god it's a brick it's a stack of bricks they're building a house and i'm going um salivating oh the loaf of bread delicious a brick that a brick it's not a fucking brick it's a brick but i thought it was a loaf of bread what anyway god whoever did the animation for incanto i know it was stunning but i was really looking at you thinking god that bread divine it's a brick cartoon food is delicious oh my god i always wanted to eat the donut that she has in mean girls like a chocolate little sprinkled donut it's like got powdered sugar on when she's like boo you whore that thing yeah and regina's on the phone oh my god it just looks so

good i and sorry i want to talk about the candy food i like um you're gonna like this is from chamber of secrets when they're doing the um the juice the cake the cakes that they give to yeah crab and oil yeah the floating cake it looks so cheap and delicious oh it looks so good it looks like it would be a like a table at like a buffet at like a sort of your grandma's party the little cupcakes oh god i can cane through those it looks disgusting and delicious at the same time so good yeah yum the thing i love which is embarrassing because i think i mentioned the simpsons movie a few episodes back i think you have mentioned this actually the um hot chocolate the flanders makes but embarrassing to say flanders on your podcast yeah you've did you did you do a painting of this i did a painting of it but

didn't really work well it was always second try i love that hot chocolate so much yeah i remember it's like in like a little i think it's in like a pink mug and it's like squirty cream i think i think it's like squirty cream a fl i think i think it's like squirty cream a flake a marshmallow on top like all kind of chocolate sprinkles all over it oh my god all the trimmings he like blow torches the marshmallow on top and it like melts all down it nice nice and bart runs away goes up a tree goes oh my god when he drinks it what the fuck he and goes oh my god when he drinks it what the fuck he just goes oh my god okay a point that i thought was genius that somebody made um in response to how they

prioritize pleasure somebody said by saying no in capitals. I was about to say the same. Really? Yeah, I just read that exact one. I thought that was a good one. Saying no. Well, capitals, exclamation marks. Oh, I'm listening. It resounds. N-O spells no. Yeah.

I just thought, good point. Good point. And I think would never turn down reminding everybody to say no to things when you can like for goodness sake i think that's a real muscle to stretch like it's a real um skill i think especially for women the word now the word said the wrong word the word no say it can't even bring yourself to say no the word now the word no that would have been profound if i'd got it right the word no for women i think is really important just like the power it holds to not feel

like you have to go along with what everyone else wants you to fucking do you have autonomy yeah and i think for people who i think a lot of people learn that their place in their childhood to be honest you understand that your role as a human on this earth is to keep the peace make things easier for others don't ever be a problem don't ever make things worse for people always like just make yourself small smooth the situation ease the situation for everyone else but your existence on earth is not dependent on the existence and the happiness of others yeah it's okay to say no it's okay to cause a little bit of confrontation i promise you'll be

fine like how many times have you lied to get out of a situation would be like oh i actually sorry i wish i could come but actually i have to do this rather than i really don't want to i really don't want to i'm so sorry i don't want to you don't have to do this. Rather than just being, I really don't want to. I really don't want to. I'm so sorry. I don't want to. You don't have to be horrible about it. You can just be like, I just need a night in. I just need to not be around that person.

You don't need to come up with huge lies to get out of things. Just be like, no, don't want to. Or do you want to go on a date with me? No, I don't. It's not I have a boyfriend. No, I don't want to. I'm sorry a boyfriend. No, I don't want to. I'm sorry. Yeah.

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and just basically not hating yourself? It's because it requires you to value yourself more than someone who just has to go along and appease everyone else but themselves. It's a real signifier in self-respect, to be honest. 100%. Yeah. And putting your desires, it's not even what you need. It's what you want above what someone else wants you to do.

Because we put on the story that was a poll like do you prioritize yourself about other people which one do you prioritize more yourself or others yeah i do think it was around 50 50 but i do think the amount like for that to be 50 50 is quite shocking yeah you're prioritizing the needs or the the desires i think was do you prioritize the pleasure of other people more than your own pleasure i think obviously goes without saying that feeds into sex so fucking much of how much we've been told essentially to prioritize male pleasure or we've been taught about male pleasure and we have not been taught about female pleasure at all but i think in all ways saying no for example you're telling yourself no i'm prioritizing my

pleasure i want to not be fucking around you yeah i don't really give a shit what you want for me yeah 100 control sorry my head my brain is not ideal let me just think i mean i don't really know i'm not exactly saying good things no no no no no no you are you are i just had a point but it's me it's me let me think ah and it's also i mean in in life as well unrealistic to think that you can prioritize everyone else and just not get around to yourself not sustainable no i'm telling you it's not sustainable it's it's being on the airplane and being told do your own oxygen mask before your child's it's how do you expect to be able to put a struggling toddler's oxygen mask on when you can't breathe you can't breathe you're not going to be able to i hate to say you can't

pour from an empty cup but i will say it i'll pull out the infographics if i have to i'll pull out the quotes if i have to it's true it's so fucking true you just can't you've got nothing to give you've got nothing to give kind of me right now i've got nothing to give i've got nothing to give kind of me right now i've got nothing i've got nothing left but i really honestly think if you're operating from that level of to an as disrespect for yourself and just complete disregard for how you might feel about something everything then that you do for others also just becomes kind of washed out with like resentment is probably too strong a word but i guess eventually that's where you're headed but even just it's not you sincerely caring about someone else and making a genuine yeah like acting out of generosity or like doing something out of

the kindness of your heart you're doing it out of your own trauma to be honest and habit exactly yeah you're doing it because you think you have to not because you care about somebody and you want to be nice to them just that's my role nobody wins nobody wins in that situation it's but it's a hard habit to break i think definitely if you've been told that you're subconsciously there's not someone telling you this is your role but you have um learned through a process of like cultural osmosis god clever um scientist clever clogged smart is in the zoom um that you that is your position in this society to be the person that give give give i do think the power of being a taker for someone that's been told to play it small their whole life the process of being like i'm gonna fucking take now now it's my turn to take something or enjoy my life what does that look

like in life i don't think it means taking anything away from anyone else but i think it means taking time for yourself and being like no i'm actually going to watch a movie watch my youtube videos make a tea whatever you want to fucking do go for a walk listen to a podcast read a book yeah take some fucking time eat a nice meal you know what i'm really learning at the moment which is so honestly dumb as usual um it's like why did it take you like fucking 20 years to learn this but i'm really learning that yeah like i don't want to be embarrassing and like do this heart i don't want to make a scene i don't want to blah blah blah but also like i don't want to feel shit and i don't want to get to the end of my life thinking

god you felt shit that whole time and was miserable and part of that was because you wanted to just keep everyone else happy and that is really embarrassing and and doing what you've been told to do yeah and living the life that is like the most acceptable yeah because i think i do want to make a scene like when i think about things i think i do want to make a scene and be i think you do if that's as truthful to me as it can be to be loud and myself and bossy or whatever fucking word you're going to put on it i think i do want to be that take myself and bossy or whatever fucking word you're gonna put on it i think i do want to be that take up the space that i take up and not try and be like oh well i don't want to make a scene because it's un unbecoming unbecoming do you know what i mean it's like

what it's unladylike fucking prince andrew calling jeffrey epstein unbecoming um i always think that when i think of that word unbecoming like you know my friend has been unbecoming he's literally a rapist okay literally a pedophile okay um anyway the world is bad um takes one to know one aka um i feel like it's that whole idea of to be honest the the sentiment just like the rhetoric around prioritizing pleasure i think sounds like a joke when you have been conditioned that this world is misery yeah and i think a lot of people are in that situation where for whatever reason you were raised to be you know you were shown that this real world quote unquote is about you know it's just unrealistic for you to be, you know, you were shown that this real world, quote unquote, is about,

look, it's just unrealistic for you to be happy. I'm so sorry, but I'm sorry to break it to you, but you're just going to be miserable. That's what happens. You become an adult and everything dries out and it's all grey and you're never going to be, you're never going to be cheerful again. And that your life is about hard work and like following a very clear set of rules. And if you do those, you'll die accomplished and like following a very clear set of rules and if you do those you'll die accomplished and if and like well respected i don't even think it's that i think if you do that you will die don't i don't even i don't think anyone's telling people that you're gonna die respected i think it's that you won't get any grief though not i think people are saying you're going to die respected

but i agree yeah i think the lack of grief that you get if if you don't follow those rules but i think that's just because you're insignificant like as in it's like we didn't have to pay attention to you because you were just following the rules blah blah blah i think there's no glory like it's just the smaller you could be the better but maybe it's the lack of justification you have to give for your life i think if you follow rules if you follow and by rules i mean the set of rules that lead to like a mediocrely successful person that we're all doing all the time that you have a good job that you get married you have kids going to uni whatever um and you have like a semi-good social life in a house and a dog that's kind of the semi rules loosely yeah if you follow those you don't need to provide justification for your existence.

You basically, it's already set. It's not that you're happy and that you have a pleasurable life that everyone's jealous of. It's the actually you don't need to. So no one gives a shit. You're at a dinner party. You don't need to,

you don't have people asking you why you made certain decisions because you already made the quote unquote right decisions. If you make any decisions out of that you have to justify i do also think they do though oh go on i think even i think people who have a house and a kid and a job and this and that are being asked all the time why didn't you have one more kid go on oh don't you think it's a bit weird that your husband does that i think that's a bit blah blah oh god well that's fucking awful oh i'm i'm always

so disappointed that you took that job sarah you always you would have been better in blah blah blah and i feel like the crux is no matter what you do people will be talking shit especially i think the saddest part is the people often closest to you in your life will be talking shit sometimes to your fucking face so the sooner you can just think i'm doing what i want obviously within it might be getting the exact job that you would have had getting the exact dog that you would have had getting the exact husband that you would have had whatever the life we just set up it could be those exact things if that's what you are happy doing at that time yeah just the sooner i think we accept that people don't yeah the sooner we can accept that people will be talking

shit about your life choices the better because I think the sting of that again is like a muscle it's just understand and here's what I was gonna say is that fucking someone being like Sarah babe that wasn't right for you or Sarah he's he's not right for you or x y and z that obviously there can be so much good intent with all of that 100 but in situations where there really isn't i think understanding that what you're being presented sarah is not really a critique on your life at all it's a projection it's completely it's a look inside the mind of aunt sally or whoever it is yeah great aunt tessie yeah you're taking a walk through her mindset yeah and that's got really not much to do with you if i asked my fucking old head of year what i should be doing

and then i asked my boyfriend what i should be doing and then i asked seffy what i should be doing and then i asked the fucking guy in pret what i should be doing they're gonna give me different answers i mean to be honest i reckon you and my boyfriend could give me a pretty good answer but that's because you you know what you're saying but fucking aunt sally has not gonna she's not got a fucking clue no it's not her responsibility and it's my responsibility to know my shit because everyone's just filtering what they want for other people with their idea of pleasure and happiness so if the guy in pretz idea of happiness is going on a holiday and going traveling and all of that he's probably gonna be like do you want maybe like some freedom in your

life yeah or if someone else is like my idea of happiness i just want to be i just want to have a dog the second i have a fucking dog i am set all i want is my fucking dog and then it's like oh like do you probably want to like get home get a dog you probably want to settle down don't you you probably want to do this you're just filtering you're projecting what you think is happiness and success onto everyone else and that's not a bad thing it's kind of a natural thing no it's just human nature but then also when you have all of these cultural rules that are coming in and who you are and what this kind of person should do what their life should look like i think that's where it gets dangerous when your idea of what makes you happy is also filtered through what should make

me happy as this person that plays this role in society yeah as a man as a 50 year old man what should make me happy is probably having a stable job where i'm near the top and my wife's at home but i'm kind of seeing my children every fucking evening but they're already in bed and then i should be happy i've got my freedom all of this it's like does that make you happy or are you performing what it means to be a standard ish successful man in britain wherever yeah yeah yeah i agree i agree i get scared when saying to people like think about what makes you happy, like, not just what you think

you should be doing in society. It's like, your role in society is all you know. Yeah. And I think it's really scary when you've got no tools or, like, no scope of, like, well, how do I start? Where do I start? And thinking about, well, who am I?

Where do I fucking start with that? I don't know. Do you know what I mean? And I think if I was 18 years old hearing, listening to a podcast and they're like, you should probably think about what you like because I think what you like

is just a projection of the world that you're living in and the rules that we've all learned to blow up. I'd be thinking, fuck. It's a mess. Fuck, fuck, fuck. It's a mess. But I think that's part of finding back. And I've got no capacity to fix it.

But I think that's part of getting back to who you are. I think when I'm saying this, I'm thinking of quite a specific example from my life and i'm gonna say it but i'm gonna change yeah the job title so they won't recognize it you'd be vague so someone i know in my life for example for example i would say if i'm gonna fix up the lives of people around me um which i shouldn't be doing no definitely not honestly fairy grandmother fairy grandmother fairy godmother fairy godmother grandmother makes it so much less hot she is hot so i'm kind of seeing it as tinkerbell i'm seeing it's very good mother

i need a hero i mean icon not keen on that for me either but you know i'm thinking that's kind of us it's just constant unsolicited advice yeah and like bursting into song and like weird references definitely you're thinking of someone in your life go on so when i think about people that follow a script that was written by people that lived 100 years ago and has been passed down by generation to generation and now you're just kind of mindlessly following that because that's what you should do you think that will bring you happiness and joy or you kind of don't but you've just passively kind of done it to me sometimes it is so obvious and it might be fucking obvious that i'm doing it wrong to so many

people as well they might be like you're barking up the wrong tree and that's fine i probably am i probably fucking am but i i think to some people it's so obvious that they're heading down a path of like potentially a career path um when this this guy that i'm thinking of really should be a violinist it's not that but like he he so obviously wants to do this other thing in his life i wonder what you're talking about do you think i should keep with the violin metaphor do you think i should just go to the actual one yeah yeah violin's funny yeah yeah violin's good violin basically he's going down this path of like career and all of this stuff that i can just see so obviously is making him miserable but i almost think what you really want

to do is this thing that doesn't really have much status behind it i mean a violinist sounds fucking great it's not a violinist who wants to do something else that's a bit different to that but he should just really do that because i can tell he always talks about it would make him really happy but he won't do that because of almost the perception of dropping out something that you're near the top of and starting something so strange to other people that you'd be like oh well he really had a mental breakdown to do that oh quarter life crisis to have to justify it but it's like just do that thing because that actually would bring you joy but what you're you're doing is you're pursuing this path out of habit tradition and fear and i'm gonna throw shame in as well

yeah i think that's so common because because you literally don't want people to say oh well he's downgraded can i pose something to you and it doesn't have to go in if you don't want it to do you also think and i know you do already because we do it all the time do you also think that the way that you view his situation of why are you doing this traditionalist route when you want to go and be a violinist is also because you're looking for confirmation of i'm doing a silly little podcast what's wrong with me? One hundred percent. And this is the thing of the boyfriend,

Pratt, telling you to go travelling because he wants to go travelling. You can't trust Aunt Sally. Yeah. One hundred percent. I want everyone to do the most creative, non-traditional and fulfilling thing they can do. Yeah, I completely agree.

I completely, that's why I just think it's all like, it's kind of as well, what I like to think about is like, it's the kind of nowhere to push thing of like, if it's going to stress you the fuck out, thinking, why am I doing what I'm doing? Blah, blah, blah, blah. Look, I followed every rule in the book.

Like I've done the basics. I will go to school. I went to university. I do as I'm told. If someone came in tomorrow and said, you should think about doing this this and this it fits perfectly with what i think you are in society i would say thank you so much yeah honestly i really needed that thank you there's no shame

in like following the rules i think it's also about just like i think it's just learning to back yourself i think so too and almost taking what you can get and take pride in your life i don't mean that joy should come from fucking up the rules because this is coming from a couple of rule keepers we're not rule breakers here we're not the breaker of change i'm not coming from the perspective of you should just fuck society in the fucking face fuck this shit go live in the woods yeah i do think the people i admire most in the world are the people that have questioned why am i pursuing this thing i do think it's an important thing to do to be like why do i like that thing why do i like that thing and it is scary to be like fuck do i like the cinema or am i like that thing and it is scary to be like fuck do i like the

cinema or am i fucking desperate for an escape from my miserable life i do think it's important to but i don't think that um means that then you should no longer enjoy the cinema but i do think it's important to be like why do i enjoy for what self-awareness because we've been certain people have been told to enjoy certain things and they're almost getting a lesser deal right so like i could have been i could have been playing in the premier league if the world was set up different yeah i would be fucking harry kane and i would be scoring goals left and right my football terminology is about to run out that's all i've got she's doing a side kick and winning matches on the pitch there's an offside situation going on and the crowd goes wild essentially yeah right i agree but i i find that if i i feel like my tendency to be like you enjoy

the cinema why do you enjoy the cinema so much you're all fucking weirdo is that because you want to escape your little rotten life you fucking loser no but not like not in a mean way i think no not in a mean way but in fact i think sometimes too much navel gazing i've said it before and i've said it again and i think well i agree i think it's about the intention of what are you looking for when you examine your life what are you looking for are you looking for some fun new ways to incorporate things that you're going to enjoy into your life or are you looking for new weapons to beat yourself with do you know what i mean we're not looking for new weapons because we have enough fucking weapons we have got a store full of weapons i think i am

looking for weapons though when i start thinking oh but anytime the majority of time the vast vast majority of the time if i'm reflecting on myself my choices my life my habits my experiences my patterns my behaviors my characteristics the things that make me who i am i'm not doing it with a big old smile on my face i can tell you that much it's not good times for me i think i'm thinking of it in terms of um limit as in being limited there are limitations on people as in what you can find pleasurable i think it's in examining examining does that actually bring you pleasure yeah so i think we've been told that certain things are joyful which actually aren't that fucking good

right yes yes yes like they're not actually that fucking good if you enjoy the cinema then you enjoy this cinema full fucking stop yeah i'm talking about do you enjoy that thing expensive hobby but i'll back you 100 but i think the deal that certain people have got in this is what you that your group of people do for fun or this is this is your box this is what you do for fun and these sort of people they can do this for fun no no no no no that is it honestly makes me feel a bit ill it's like you should be able to do whatever you fucking want so i think being limited by i feel joy when i don't even know what the fucking example is it's sometimes it's like oh do you though but if you do then i don't know look i don't know no no it's me

i'm getting lost i'm a bit lost in my own point as well. No, no, no, you're not. You're not. You're not. Don't be silly. Come on now. Come on now. Don't lose grip just because I've been up since 3am

and I'm being like, ah, but blah, blah, blah. No, no, no, because I'm also not tied to it. My main thing with prioritising pleasure is that I want everyone to be able to decipher for themselves this makes me happy so i will dedicate to it it's the cracks so it's not actually so much for me about cut this out do you think examine it get it under a microscope and think why does it make you happy because i'm not so interested in the why it's more just like does it yeah yes or no yes yeah take stock of your life and try and slowly incorporate more of what you enjoy

yeah if you can get a fucking ounce of happiness out of a coffee you should you fucking should can i ever if you can be like my tea that i've made this evening caffeine past 4 p.m you're joking um i won't be able to fucking sit still you'll be up at 3am with me watching incantor this is my family i actually haven't even finished it honestly guys um mental then you should fucking milk that coffee for all it's worth like i don't think it should be about um to me it's just take what you can fucking get and try and enjoy this life because you've been told and i hate to bring it back to society but you essentially we all have been told that this life isn't about joy and it's about we're being milked for all we're worth to provide for this this abstract society

that we don't really know what we're giving it to i do think it's actually like why don't you flip it around and have some fucking fun i think think that's perfect. I think that's completely it. It should go without saying, frankly. Frankly. Do you think that the whole... I'm curious. Sorry, what's curious? I'm curious.

What is that from? The beginning when he says, I'm curious, when he's got the wand and he's like, sorry, what's curious? So cute. And he flips all the drawers open. Yeah, he's like sorry what's curious so cute and he flips all the um all the drawers open yeah he's breaking the fucking vase and you know causing havoc the one chooses the wizard i'm curious what are the ways in which social media and the rhetoric around having a romantic life

full of beautiful moments how does that inform the way that you view your own life as an observer throughout your day? I think I'm only just learning this, that beauty doesn't necessarily bring me happiness. All the glitters ain't gold, only shooting stars. I'm not talking about my own beauty because I'm blessed. Like beauty, I would see beauty in like mess but i wouldn't i don't think that like neatness and what we've learned is beautiful is like a very um fixed and aesthetic and stunning thing which i don't necessarily think is what i

seek if i want my life to be real and messy and I'm just here and not hating every fucking moment of it then I don't necessarily think how things look is my priority at all. But I think it makes things definitely worse to have the emphasis on how things look because it's just not at all about how things feel or are and it's the basis is in performance yeah why do you think you're learning that at the moment what has something changed as what did you think about like i think i'm thinking we were talking about this just before we started as well about how we wreck everything in our lives fucking hell you're not that you're not even exaggerating as well it's really embarrassing it's so embarrassing we were talking about um obviously the podcast and everything and i hate

to get meta on the podcast um because i find it so irritating but i'm sorry we were talking about having the podcast and how somehow we have the most amazing thing that we could never have dreamed of having a few years ago but somehow we managed to be so miserable about it it's like can we not just enjoy it like we're about to record a podcast so scared of it i think is my problem we're so fearful so scared and stressed honestly terrified of everything too concerned about how your own performance in a in a pure thing yeah is going to negatively impact and destroy this pure thing that you have scared of losing it scared of it growing scared of not being good enough or not being good enough yeah basically just waiting for it to fall apart scared of every single part of it

i'm basically waiting to be honest the reality is i'm waiting for every single dm to turn around and be like you know what you guys are a fucking mess and especially you wing in particular you're a fucking bitch well i'm waiting for the opposite yeah it's fucking horrific basically just building something and then waiting from that moment that it just starts to get good waiting patiently for its demise it's like why can't you just enjoy but it's taylor's oldest time everyone has this in any anything anything and i know we've said this before but it's like why can't you just enjoy but it's taylor's oldest time everyone has this in any anything anything and i know we've said this before but it's like when you were five you wanted a bike and you thought when i get that bike i'll never be sad again no tears left to cry

never shed a single tear and then you got on the bike and you rode a few miles and it took a few weeks and then you moved on because that's what we are we're human fucking beings and we are the worst but we are honestly desperate to to be honest assume the worst a dreadful slogan i was thinking this just i was thinking assume the worst is so bad it's like you can't put that on a fucking phone case like you can't put that on a fucking sweatshirt it's really bad i was thinking the other day, it's so good. Okay, good. I like it because it's just like,

it's just a bit like, what? What is this? Well, anyway, we all have these things that we are thinking will bring us happiness and then you get them and they could bring you a lot of happiness. But the problem is, and it's again, the common denominator is you like

yeah a new bike or an amazing job or a great relationship are great things they bring a lot of happiness to people but if you are going to be there bringing the misery then yeah you're going to outweigh the happiness they're not going to be amazing things anymore this is i think this is part of the epiphany and i remember where i was it was before i moved house i was walking on stunning stunning river where i used to live. And I remember thinking, you will never, anything you're doing will never be good enough unless you fix the fundamental issue, which is that you cannot accept yourself. Yeah. It's not about what you have in any way.

If I pursued a job in journalism, I can guarantee I wouldn't be happy. If I suddenly became a mother, I wouldn't be happy if i suddenly became a mother i wouldn't be happy i'd be looking at everyone else if i yes um was a fucking singer winning x factor i'm an x factor judge now i've reached the top i'm still fucking miserable yeah you're in the over 25s which is you're definitely miserable it's so out of order i'm thinking i won it when i was like 22 and now i'm a judge oh right i've been bought by a judge just fucked up that that is a thing but yeah it's horrific fine yeah you won it a few years ago but i'm not going in the overs category absolutely not in my fantasy it's so insane that they do that horrendous

but whatever fucking path you take you will be unhappy with it it will be um not good enough for you so then okay so if it's not about the path it must be about yourself then yeah and i think it's no coincidence that now we've done this which i don't fucking know what this is but this is what we've done yeah and we're still finding so many ways to make ourselves miserable in it and it's like okay so it's not about this it's not about the teaching job the x factor judge or whatever the fucking else i said the mother yeah it's not about these things it's not about any of it it's just we are fucked up yeah it's about the internal um it's about the effort i think

it's putting in the effort every day to be like here you go again let's see what we can do today to just try and work on that a bit i think it's just purely acceptance of like you will never be at a point in your life what like what what is how do you do that how do you practice that as a practice as a skill i don't first of all i don't know but my guess would be my guess would be acknowledging the fact that there will never be a point in your life where you look around and think, I've got it. There's everything I want right now. I have it. And even if you do get to the point where it's like, I have everything, there'll still be a million other things that you don't have yet.

There's never going to be a point of completion. Or I guess the closest point of completion is your death. And what, that's going to be the happiest moment of your life? I hope not i think it's acknowledging and recognizing the fact that the point of this experience is to experience it and not to complete things and reach the top and reach the heights and just be like who i am right now has to be good enough it's not i need to accept it's like it surely has to be good enough because that's the literal only thing you have it's all i've got it's literally all i've

got it's the only thing you have and it's the only thing you will ever have so this isn't working so it has to be good enough yeah you know what i think is quite good a quite good um like tangible real way that you can like get better at this and everyone's gonna absolutely hate me and turn off the pod because it sounds like it sounds like I'm taking the piss. But I think if you can learn to be more present in your day, rather than in your head a million miles away, thinking about all the shit you did wrong and what everyone's going to say about you and blah, blah, blah.

And bring yourself right back into your kitchen, for example, when you're making your tea. Or right back to the cinema when you're sat with your friends yeah and engross yourself in exactly what you're doing at the task at hand you know what is really good for training your mind to do that physically scientifically is things like meditation for example yeah no you're right it physically does your brain is learning you you've got muscles you're you can get better it's not just like oh i because i think this is a bit of a problem i know i've had this i think you've had

this sephi like i think a lot of people go through this thing of like i know it all i know my problems but i can't fix them it's like how do i just get over that do you know what i mean like i might be familiar oh i'm aware that i'm going through a fucking phase with my perfectionism right now well what am i supposed to do about that yes i know i'm having a problem with letting go right now what am i supposed to do about that and it's like well look if i can't bother to fucking meditate every few days then i've only got who what a joke to then sit and say well how am i supposed to fix this it's like well you know how to you fucking idiot talking to myself you know how to you could give it a go you could give it a

go because being more present helps you then to check those thoughts when your mind is running away when you're stood in the kitchen but your mind is in fucking your year 10 science lesson when you stood up in front of the class and you said x y and z which was wrong i've been there don't take me back it's up to you in that moment to catch yourself and be like what is the point of me thinking about this spending my time thinking about this i'm not there no one else remembers no one else remembers if they did it's probably a bit funny you know why because i don't take myself that seriously because i know i'm a human being who has made mistakes and the only thing i can guarantee is that i will continue to make mistakes. And if I can accept that, then I can have peace in myself.

You're fucking free. Why is it so bad for you to do something wrong? It's not. You're allowed to do that, by the way. You're allowed to not be perfect, by the way. What an amazing revelation that is. What is this weird standard you've put on yourself? You're okay.

No need to panic. What is this? Calm down. It's fine. It's weird when that hits. It's okay to get things wrong. I hope for you and I hope for us that we continue to be the fucking messiest versions of ourselves. Sorry, that's the only version I want.

Everyone has said the wrong thing. Everyone has been a fucking cunt want everyone has said the wrong thing everyone has been a fucking cunt everyone has done things wrong we all have why torture yourself life is pretty torturous at times don't add to the torture why are you torturing yourself on a fucking monday morning in the kitchen why are you doing that no that really hit i hope that hit for everyone because that that's it i think the crux of um pleasure for me is being here is being in what the activity you are doing now and i think that's why i like the fucking lexi lombard being like i'm gonna get coffee i love yeah um which she just said honestly as a throwaway comment but i'm bringing it up a lot sorry lexi

it's really the whole episode that she didn't just get a coffee and then fucking drink it she was in that coffee she was in that experience yeah i think that is pleasure so for example you're in the kitchen you're doing whatever you're doing you're making your banana bread and you can either be making your banana bread thinking about the year 10 disco whatever you said where you said the embarrassing thing or you can be making a banana bread yeah you know why because even if you made a fool of yourself at the year 10 disco and even if you were a dick to your friend the other week and even if you made a fool of yourself in x y and z way you still deserve to have an hour where you're making banana bread and you're relaxed yeah you don't deserve endless torture that's i i can guarantee that i can guarantee one thing

is that you don't deserve endless torture endless torture if i wouldn't wish endless torture on my worst enemy you stunning you harry you don't deserve endless torture endless torture why are you doing that to yourself i think let's make it the mission to just get a bit better at dedicating to yourself it's that it's being intentional with who you are as well it's not so much even what you're doing i wrote in my notes ages ago i had like a bit of a as oprah would call it an aha moment i'm gonna butcher it now but it was like it's not wait wait can't oh fucking hell what was it oh i'm gonna have to get it up because you've got it you've got it is it even that good because it was just it's just kind of scrawled in my notes um okay here it is i wrote this in my notes this just hit me colon nice it's not who you want to be it's how you want to be nice i don't know if that hits me now

but that's what it hit me back in the day this just hit me colon that it's not necessarily who do i want to perform being who do i want to be it's how do i want to be in that how do i want to spend my time today i don't necessarily think i have to think about how i want to be this like perfect brandable version of myself today I am a kind person a funny person a stunning person I do still want to be a kind person but I also want to be how do I want to spend my day today I just don't want to be a person who spends their day beating themselves up feeling miserable feeling stressed feeling sick with fear and crying sobbing their life away that I don't want to be that therefore you know what as

well the more you change those behaviors everything else follows the kind person because if you start acting like okay if i'm acting like how i want to be and if i don't want to be the fucking misery guts over here if i don't want to be negative nancy yeah debbie downer i don't want to be the debbie downer then how would i act if i just felt at peace with myself okay i would enjoy this coffee a bit more i would do this with a bit more pleasure i would do this and blah blah and then you end up forming a life not only that you enjoy but is like feeding back to you all of the things that you did want i.e it becomes easier to sit down and write the application for a uni course that

you think might be slightly out of your reach but you're going to go for it anyway because you don't hate yourself and then suddenly the things that you wanted you might get just saying and you're not doing it out of fear you're not saying oh i'm going to apply for this thing but i probably not going to get it anyway you're saying i'm doing this out of hope yeah for myself i'm living my life out of love and hope. Yeah. I know that sounds fucking embarrassing to say, but that's what I hope. I hope that you're living a life where you can envision love and hope for yourself, not fucking doom and gloom.

A wholesome episode. I know. This isn't where I thought this was going to go. No, neither. But I think we both needed this. Great. I always thought this would go in quite a sexual direction we can come back with sex at any any other time i'm shocked at the at the where this has gone right um but i'm loving where it has gone okay good good i'm glad wholesome very wholesome people have clicked

on this thinking it's like get your vibrator out guys and it's like you do not want doom and gloom make the title super sexy i think it's something super raunchy suggestive and they're gonna get guys life is miserable enough guys i hate being miserable tell me that you're not gonna hate me in six months please it's not who you want to be it's how you want to be embarrassing fuck okay well thanks so much seffy for doing this with me i had a great time well thank you wing something that we do off the podcast that i we've never obviously done on the podcast we give each other a round of applause afterwards we do it on the pod today okay was that annoying but just round of applause to everyone oh she's holding her cardboard box well done to everyone homeless girl we got through another episode i like this one i really liked it it's a nice

experience hope you guys are good i hope you guys are not in misery oh god i hope you're not in misery i hope you're seeking out pleasure and prioritizing yourself at all points can i actually say i would really it would be really nice if we're listening to this you took a picture or whatever did a little story of wherever you are right now whatever situation you're in you're in your kitchen you're in your wherever no pressure but just be present in your moment and share with us like tag us on instagram whatever because i would love to see like what this was for you. Like where were you

when you had us fucking screaming down your ear holes for an hour? So true. That's not like a marketing move, by the way. We're not trying to like get you to send it to us. No, I genuinely want to see. Just send it. You don't even have to put it on your story.

I mean, terrible marketing move. Like worst marketing move of all time. What? Well, I don't want people to think it's like tag us in the story no for real do whatever you want it's my favourite thing

oh my god seeing where people listen it's a creme de la creme crazy well thank you guys go and make a hot chocolate or like something now I think

oh nice just have a nice day yeah yeah make the Flanders hot chocolate yeah okay love you

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