Goes Without Saying - privilege & influencer culture: podmas #4

Episode Date: December 16, 2022

on the 4th day of podmas sephy and wing gave to me... a confused and emotional rant on privilege, instagram & getting sent free shit. join the conversation every monday.shop our merch: sephyandwing.co.ukcome and chat in our book club.speak your mind on the @sephyandwing instagram. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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I can't believe we've been doing this day in, day out! Look at this consistency! Who are we? Show up! And we're doing well! They said show up and be consistent and we said you know what after two years we'll give it a good go we can do it for four days at least yeah at least at least hopefully actually we've done five days in a row because of the actual monday episode as well yeah this episode technically i guess isn't out yet yeah this could go wrong all hell could

break loose from this point on but so far so good on the fourth day of podmas everyone gave to me consistency oh my god that can be the last thing we were thinking what rhymes with tree yeah we did just have a whole previous take guys and we were like this is so embarrassing we've got to go it was so shit we're like what goes on trees and then we were like right we're both knackered and that's why the convo's shit should we just get into it yeah yeah any big news you feel like sharing with the group or no big news no you sure no big news really okay any big news for you well maybe we can just say sephie's had a really fun day yeah yeah no yeah yeah it's been a fun time but you also just had some noodles which sounds quite fun yeah the noodles were great they sounded delish yeah i'll take one for the team my noodles were amazing basically i just don't want to say too much anyway what are we talking about today we're talking about social

media let's talk about social media okay do you like it or do you think it's shit can yeah can i ask you a question can i just go straight in and get a deep cut from you i feel like correct me if i'm wrong but maybe over the past few months your relationship to social media has changed and you've been kind of rethinking yeah and evaluating your thoughts and your relationship to it yeah definitely i think i have gone through a period of like hatred with social media like and i specifically mean instagram like i think i okay i think i really gone through a period of like hatred with social media. Like, and I specifically mean Instagram. Like, I think I. Okay.

I think I really went through a period where I was like, do I want to be on this? Like, there's so much about it that I really dislike. But there's so much about it that I think is really cool as well. And like just a great tool. But I don't think, I think it's hard to use it as a tool, as a fun thing. it's hard to use it as a tool as a fun thing because I think like naturally you slip into kind of the habitual use of it as a place to kind of I don't know post pictures of you looking stunning and all of this stuff and it's like I don't know if that is important to me in loads of ways like I like it but is that something is that to me something I want to cause any stress

in my life like this photo is that photo stunning enough like that what the fuck is that in life I don't really want anything to be giving you stress in an ideal world I don't want anything to but yeah you're right definitely not definitely not social media no I think I found it a stressful thing like over the past few years quite stressful isn't it yeah I think it's like I feel I think I felt overexposed to it as well that's like i'm in this space too much and we spoke about a few episodes ago probably about like 10 episodes ago about using social media like as a supermarket do you remember this and we're yeah and it was almost like vaguely it's not a place that you go to when you feel like shit or like when you're

bored or whatever it's not actually um necessarily a safe space it's somewhere that you like intentionally go to and essentially it's just a shit ton of adverts it is just a marketplace in loads of ways but i can't really remember what the good point about that was but i remember thinking yeah that's a good point supermarket well what changed um because you were on a bit of a not ban but like you were holding instagram i guess specifically at a distance right yeah i think i just didn't i just did i just didn't want to be a part of it but then i i remember i had i think i spoke to my therapist about it and i was like i just don't think this is a space i can be in or like i have to just i think i was gonna have a month off and then she was like

i think that's just avoidant i think you it's not actually maybe the most helpful thing to not show up to the thing that stresses you out and maybe you need to work out a way that it can not stress you out. That you can make it work. Yeah, so I think it was just like, sorry, I feel like my brain is being so slow today. Is this like making sense?

Yeah, it's making perfect sense. But if you overthink it, it won't. Okay, good. I'll underthink it. Yeah, just loosey-goosey, hey? Yeah. What's your relationship with social media? instagram in particular i think um can i be honest i really like instagram i feel like i i've said before like my stress doesn't come from feeling stressed about how i am presenting on

social media and on instagram for example my stress comes from being in a shitty mood and then just spending hours upon hours consuming a load of shit and just like finding loads of different things that will make me feel bad it could be um like a beautiful island somewhere and i'm like wow my life is so shit why am i not on this gorgeous island yeah in this photo it literally could be a fucking still or a seat like a scene from a film and i'm like oh you still haven't watched that film you fucking idiot like what is wrong with you like it really it's for me i think it's just the level of exposure to a ton of shit that i really actually don't need to see and i think my brain isn't designed to take in that much kind of superfluous information no i completely because

i end up just sifting through it and my habit is to always find the things that i can use to make myself feel more shit i think that's the problem you click on this fucking picture of a fucking camera this kind of weird purple ugly logo of a camera um and it's almost like whatever you you're at its mercy you click on it usually or like often the first thing you do in a day your eyes open to the world and you click on this fucking weird picture of the camera you go into this world where it's like all these fucking people that you follow there's also an explore page even more unpredictable probably stuff you don't want to be seeing on there um yeah you can see anything and it's pretty much if your brain

is determined to find shit you're gonna find some shit that's gonna make you feel bad and also i feel like it's tailored to make you feel bad how so um it learns what you click on and we have the habit of clicking on things that we don't want to see and i think the internet has a load of shit on it like we know what we know what sells now and i like i don't know i'm not the only one that would say that it's super triggering to go on essentially the explore page and it's bikini pick after bikini pick after bikini pick of these like models and I do think like that is what it's tailored to show you like I never click on these things but they're always there and I think or like what I eat in a day

videos and things like this it's like actually I do I don't think it's um tailored to be a happy place they're trying to sell you products in relation to that how does it make you feel that what we make on social media will probably be making like loads of other people feel like shit oh I thought you were gonna say makes them feel better well hopefully it makes them feel better and I think like thank god we have a lot of evidence that tells us that it's making a lot of people feel good and it's bringing them some niceness but something i've had to like i'm still thinking about all the time is that i can't obviously live my life through the lens of like a huge disclaimer of apologizing for things i haven't said yet for example do you know i mean things like that like i can't i need to give myself some room to like breathe and just

exist and be human and whatever but i also find it really hard to not be really really sensitive to like the ways that i will be received by other people and i feel like when it comes to something like social media and like this podcast we try and give something really i think like an honest reflection of who we are and where we're at but i definitely like it worries me how fragile i am if someone were to be like oh my god wing made me feel like shit when she said um something something something i completely agree i think it's it will ruin my day yeah because i think and i'll every negative thing anyone's ever said about this space i will never forget like yeah i haven't forgotten any of them do you know what i mean yes that's

when it's bad sometimes first thing in the morning no you don't in what way i have done in my life sometimes you just wake up and like have a little look around for things look for something you don't like look for something you might not want to see but i think even if you don't have a podcast and you're looking for people who hate your podcast i think a lot of people wake up and as you say like click on the little camera and like look for things that they don't want to see scroll through photos they don't want to see click on accounts that they know make them feel like shit yeah what is what do you think that is a good way to start the day is it like what do you think that is as an impulse i think it's like trying to it's maybe like a biological um hyper fixation with our threats

like what's a danger to me and if it's like okay if i go on the explore page and all these people look better than me i'm at risk of death i won't find a mate and survival of the fittest i'm out sort of thing i think we're like always often really fixated with our own flaws not because we just want to make ourselves feel shit but because we constantly need to be bettering ourselves to feel worthy on this planet yeah we want to fix things and we want to i think as well even not in a biological sense but i think a lot of people have like an idea about almost like getting one step ahead of your enemies like well they couldn't call me blah blah blah because i already know it do you know i mean like yeah the striving for like self-awareness and striving to know all of your flaws and know your

shit because it in some way makes your enemies like a bit um defenseless to it because it's like well you can't hurt me with what i already know yeah but it does definitely still hurt maybe hurts more if you're saying it to yourself acas powers the world's best podcasts. Here's a show that we recommend. Get ready to sashay into season two of Think Queen. Your fiercest drag queen is back in the lab, honey, serving up even more STEM realness. We are kicking things off with an iconic guest,

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It's, you're familiar with Pitch Perfect, aren't you? I am. The trilogy of Pitch Perfect 1, 2 and 3. Yeah. I think there might be a 4. There's also a new series coming out called Bumper in Berlin. A spin-off about the character which is the worst character who gives a fuck i don't even know who that is yes no you don't need

to and i shouldn't okay it's the spin-off no one would have wanted it's like the most unlikable character it's giving podmas it's giving nothing nothing but there's a character in pitch perfect called fat amy and it's like we all know her it's rebel wilson and it's like she's there being like i'm call me fat amy because i'm saying it before you can say it and it's always like this defense mechanism that i think is so common to just say it first and this is why people make jokes about their insecurities the whole fucking time so it's like well i fucking said it first yeah But I don't think it works. I actually can't remember if they ever like in Pulp Fiction, fucking hell, Pitch Perfect.

So not similar. Guys, it's day four. Give us a break. She's been up all night. It's day four and my brain is mush. In Pulp Fiction slash Pitch Perfect. I don't know if they ever actually come to like a resolution where they're like, let's not call her fat Amy.

They give her a makeover. Let's just call her Amy. Honestly. I don't know if they ever actually come to like a resolution where they're like, let's not call her fat Amy, let's actually just call her Amy. Yeah, honestly. I don't know if they ever resolve that, but it's like actually, surely the message of that should be, I'm sure they do do it because it would be absurd not to. But it's like, oh, I don't know what I'm saying. I'm so sorry. Sophie, don't doubt yourself.

Okay. Don't doubt yourself. You're only making this harder. Devil's snare, devil's snare. So true. So, so true. Okay, let me think of something okay would you think it's fair to say even if you lot don't think we're influencers we do operate in some way close enough to that realm to have a little bit of a sneaky insight and would you think it's fair to say sephie that we have encountered some

influencers in our time oh we've encountered we've had some let's think about some of the negative encounters that you've had with people in that realm oh my gosh really i mean not asking for names but what do you think was your biggest takeaway from spending some time with influencers influencers and influencer culture i just also want to say and i will go in with a disclaimer it's not to shit on influencer culture like no we're just shitting on these particular people no but almost like look if i was gonna write you an essay i'm sure you'd read it and love it but i'm not i'm just trying shit on a podcast so can you just cut us a bit of slack

anyway go on she's just had some noodles also the burn on your on her hand yeah do you guys remember that it was worse than you thought it's so much worse than i thought i did like yeah the credit that i'm now giving you for like how much pain you must have been in oh thanks this is when she spilt some hot water on her hand filling up her head with hot water of course what else would i be doing fucking hell you know what i am a bit of a magnet to burns like i always burn myself on the oven on the hob on on boiling water like i i don't necessarily like cut myself or like knock the eye just always burn myself like where that burn is on my hand is directly over a scar from a previous burn from the same sort of thing uh that was on a hair straightener once i remember i was on msn and um i was on like webcam with probably like five different people at a time which is weird to think about isn't it

but you'd be webcaming like multiple people at once and they'd all be people you kind of vaguely yeah a load of boys honestly i was a real little yeah um and i was straightening my hair and i was laughing at something that someone else said to me and i fucking burnt my hand so bad on the straightener and i like a real fucking freak pretended that i hadn't like so i acted completely natural whilst my hand was like i actually remember this is really disgusting but it got stuck to the to the hot like iron yeah like it was that burn you had to kind of peel it i had to peel it away and it really hurt so i burned directly over that anyway how long did you leave it like no like one second or something oh my god i know but i was i mean be more worried about my hair i was frying it every day anyway yeah influencers take it away

i think with the influences that we have encountered no not all of them but no oh my god not all of them but like people oh well people goes out saying people would have really horrible things to say about us as well i'm sure i don't even want to think about it i think well i think the fact there's two of us it's almost like is immediately unlikable because it's like stop laughing about harry potter you fucking cunts like shut up do you know what i mean annoying presence from us which i'll hold my hands up sorry that i want to have a good time anyway sorry go on go on well i think i can speak to speak for both of us maybe when i would say that the impression we kind of walk walked away from

like these encounters was like there's a lot of i would actually say there's there's a lot of falseness here and i would actually say there's a lot of suffering here and it's not these not these girls fault at all but they the feeling i got is that they had been sucked into something and it had kind of snowballed they started posting pictures of themselves or whatever and it started snowballing it was going well and then before you know it you're kind of in this mill where you're having to kind of churn out content of yourself and kind of there's the disjunction a word between i don't know if making words up these days the disjunction between their who they think they are or how they think they present and how they're actually presenting was just completely different like they almost thought they were presenting as like quite self-aware

and like they were on top of it but how i was interpreting them was as someone that was quite out of control and um really really a lot of suffering actually i think as well like what maybe is part of the crux if you, of influencer culture is if you're getting sent free things and getting paid to, like, talk shit on the internet, for example, try as you might, I. Like with being sensitive to what people say to me. And also it's one of my worries. Because I'm like shit I'm really not cut out for this. Like I'm too fragile. Like almost fine. Like when people say mean things it can hurt you.

But like I shouldn't be this cut up about someone. Like trying to be nice. Like that's when I start to get a bit concerned for myself. Like if someone was just like oh you two are fucking dumb. I'd be like okay. Coming from you. But if someone was like you've really changed you feel really out of touch blah blah blah all your episodes recently have sucked which this one might actually i'm not sure so you might be valid but when if it's one that is like god i actually agree with you and i noticed that that's how i feel and i just kind of been like going

through the motions I think that's when it does really hurt when it's like there's a level of respect there something that also worries me though is that you kind of have to like I think by trying to make this a thing by trying to make social media as a career work for you for example by doing a podcast I think you have to kind of or for me anyway i have to um be willing to lose my touch with reality like that's really what i'm asking for here isn't it do you know what i mean and i think go on well i just almost think what you get paid to talk to your mate so you can't talk shit to anybody then like how dare you like i think it almost becomes a bit laughable kind of what i was saying to you in the other episode,

like as much as I think obviously Kim Kardashian, I'm sure has things to cry about. Like everyone- Her diamond ring, lost in the relationship. Exactly, but like everyone- Diamond earrings. Totally has the right to be validated in any emotion and blah, blah, blah.

But I do have a fear of just being like an out of touch fucking freak. It's like, how could i sit and mope when i'm lucky enough to just to get to do things like podmas it's like that's so ridiculous that's amazing but you're not moping about that like no i'm not sorry i kind of just interrupted you but it's like the pod the podcast that's the fucking least of our worries that's like the space that is like it's me and you microphones in our fucking bedrooms shitty face time that's breaking up every two seconds the toxic bit the bit that's actually hard is nothing to do with like the conversations and

the listeners like actually like interacting and it's like a real fucking dialogue it's a real fucking thing people listening as they go to sleep on their way to work all the shit that bit is i'm not fucking worried about that we're not stressed we're not losing touch because of that the bit that's fucking i don't know there's a bit of evilness around it i think is the fucking instagram bit and it's not necessarily our instagram bit that's bad but for me there is not a single bit of um out of touchness with this this is almost or like there might be out of touchness but i feel like it feels quite grounded in like we're two people talking into microphones about our lives the bit that feels like there's a layer of falseness in to me is a place like instagram which is kind of centered around

falseness and like presenting yourself as a particular thing and there really is only one version that's acceptable which is the like pretty perfect place like the perfect version i agree but i think the podcast is 100 like rooted in like this to me will always be read and i'm not saying you're not you disagree but i think for us the podcast will always be read as a luxury because it is no 100 because 100 my parents would have no scope of, like, this as an option. And even, like, when I was younger and I would say, like, oh, I would want to do, like, as a child, oh, I would want to do something...

What do you want to do when you grow up? Oh, something creative, something fun. And it's like, well, you can't. Sorry, like, you're going to have to pay the bills. Like, that's not going to work. And it's not an option for you. And I think it should be an option for every child, obviously. And for some kids it is. Like, okay, you'll go to an expensive art school you'll go and do this you'll get into this program you can blah blah blah that's just not the world like i don't

i don't know anyone who did anything creative i don't know anyone who went to a private school like this is not my world and i think that was a big takeaway for me in spending time or like meeting briefly some people in the industry of influencers is really confronting because there is an out of placeness inherently in it when the whole thing is about capitalizing on your privilege and i've got so much in that i was able to go to uni and now i have this lovely posh voice that i worked on for years and blah blah blah but part of it I think scares me because I think I've always felt really disconnected like I think at uni I felt really disconnected because I felt really like um just like odd one out like you can't relate to certain things and try not to

make that a big deal like don't make that obvious that people have a privilege over you that you don't have then i've come to this where i'm like i still feel like i'm living a pretty scrappy life and i am in a lot of ways but i also now have an amazing insanely luxurious thing to be able to just dedicate even an hour a week to get to talk to you and put it out on the internet and have it be received really nicely and then get money for it is just i think it does just make you a bit of a cunt yeah like yeah yeah i don't like i've i've worked both of us have worked real jobs in our lives but i think if influencing is the only job you've ever had or if this podcast was the only thing i knew about making money you can't but you've never

worked today in your life we'd be absolutely like we are unbearable in loads of ways but i think you can absolutely tell for a mile off when someone it's like the kind of nepotism thing when someone walks into like the perfect fucking job like if this had been the only thing we've ever done i think you can tell it from a mile off yeah i agree but i also think regardless of that now we're in it yeah maybe we did yeah and i think you do i'm like um i think the least you can do is be like yeah i don't get to comment on certain things or yeah i don't i think the instinct for a lot of people is to be like no i'm i'm not privileged i had to do this or oh i have this or like blah blah blah but it's like well just forget about it just hold your hands up and be like you regardless of any of that the optics

are that you get to operate in a space that other people couldn't fucking imagine like you're getting scent free stuff so just shut the fuck up it's really interesting like what would you say about yeah professional like comedians or like a professional like actor because we're comedians comedians what would you say about like anyone that works in like more mainstream like less internetty creative roles like someone that is um a film director or like um yeah like a comedian for example because i feel like we're comedians in certain ways we just undeniably are. We're just hilarious.

Like, would you say that that is out of touch? Because I feel like being a comedian, there's so much that relies on being relatable and knowing what is actually going on. They're not, though. They're not. Their whole life, it's like, what do you do for work? It's like, okay, they might set their alarm for nine and write jokes all morning. I'm not saying they don't work, but it's like the type of work that you're doing like even working in like publishing or um

just anything that isn't like working in tesco it's i think people think oh i just think you're made to feel like shit if you have a normal fucking job and that's not fucking right 100 i don't know why i'm getting pissed off no because it's so true but go but go on what bit what bit of that is like because are you like i think are you made to feel like shit or is it just there is just huge inequality there like there is a massive inequality in that there are some jobs that are paid more that are fucking objectively more luxurious and easier better yeah yeah just better your quality of life is better and there are some jobs that are fucking

shit and that you have to work really hard it's why everyone like but you know what it kind of is you know when i get annoyed when people say like minority groups or whatever and it's like but they're not necessarily minority in terms of numbers and things like that. Why would you call them a minority? I think with the structure of society right now, the majority of things that we're exposed to, let's say through our media, is traditional media like TV. So you're seeing actors and stuff. You're seeing the elite.

You're seeing like even reality TV stars. So essentially influencers. You're seeing like presenters and stuff. You're seeing a group of people who are in like a creative industry and they're probably getting paid significantly higher than the national living wage for example social media fine you see your friends and your family but you're largely seeing a lot of content from a lot of people whose lives do not look like yours and as much as that's not necessarily their fault it's really fucking hard and i think why the social media culture and the influencer culture feels really like distasteful a lot of the time is because we've got this weird

juxtaposition of of course we can't have people walking around apologizing for their existence like i don't want molly may to go on her instagram stories every day and say sorry guys i'm about to show you something really nice and expensive but that's just what my life is blah blah and then show us like i don't think she should have to apologize for her life sure it's not her fault i'd rather fuck off the tory government than attack molly may but it also then i understand why someone would be very jarred opening a story from molly may for example and getting pissed off because she has so many luxuries i really also though do want to make it clear when i said like kim kardashian 100 has valid problems that's one of my biggest things in

life is that i think just because molly may is crying in a range rover doesn't mean she's not crying like i want is one of my strongest beliefs in life is that like regardless of what you have you've still probably got a human brain in there and that just means you're probably fucked sometimes and you have real feelings and you should be able to express them i really really believe that and i don't want it to be like i'm shitting on anyone or like trying to make anyone feel bad or like they're not allowed to complain i do think influencers are allowed to complain i just think the setup is so tricky because life is so fucking unfair and i actually think maybe this shouldn't be social media and influencer culture and it should be like next chance you get vote the tories out and kill the nazis yeah i mean that was stunning

that i literally couldn't agree with it more okay good thanks also you froze yeah i was gonna say i'm by frozen god on a really horrific still frozen yeah yeah what did you say i said on a really horrific still and you said yeah but i do look really bad i don't know what to do about i can't get rid of it am i back horrific still yeah i almost wish my brain was like functioning better for this conversation because i find it so fascinating and i would love to be able to like really engage with it but for some reason i've got a mental no brain i think it's a hard one anyway like because as i say in the beginning everyone well everyone has their own relationship to what they do and don't have anyway and then i think we have an interesting relationship because

it's like we're going to comment on social media and influence culture via a podcast that thousands of people listen to it's like right so where which has adverts yeah where are you coming from and i think i think that's really interesting though but like more than anything it's it strips it right back to it's an issue with equality and then also like the aesthetics of inequality we haven't even mentioned race no what do we gender i i reckon let's get into this i want to give this topic it's um fair dues yeah me too i think it's massive like i think it's one of the things we think about because in so many ways we do function in that space i mean we're always thinking about it yeah and also the more that we kind of encountered that world i mean the scarier it is i mean did just think fucking hell that is a different world we just saw yeah it did just feel completely alien i just want anyone who's listening

to feel validated in like guys don't be horrible to people obviously i'm not saying go into people's dms and be like it annoys me that you have an expensive sofa but i want you to also feel validated in feeling frustrated and angry sometimes this is why it's like this isn't a good place jealousy is such a valid emotion and all of the i just want everyone to feel okay with where they are at right now because i also think there's a version of me five years ago as i said the other day that would see a version of me now and really get her knickers in a twist and be so confused and like jealous of this person because things look a certain way but i just want everyone to feel all right but anyway i think we've i think we've said more than enough yeah i agree i don't know if we've said anything but well i know you've said great things i also

can't see you 12 days of cancellation i think it is maybe podmas is four days and then we're out we're cut i wouldn't be surprised um everyone also really liked our congratulations on the podmas oh good okay let's do it again reference actually if anyone remembers the original congratulations on the podcast i have a painting yeah of that cake that we've got made that said congratulations on the podcast I literally have it right there but why did we get the cake to congratulate ourselves on the podcast

because you got there was something about a Millie's cookie that said congratulations on the podcast it's always something about a Millie's cookie for some reason

that said thank you mum for everything for everything right well congratulations on the podcast congratulations on the congratulations on the pod mess well done cool