Goes Without Saying - privilege, plastic surgery, & the patriarchy: filler just to feel something?

Episode Date: September 6, 2024

podmothers sephy & wing enter the chat: spiralling on filler culture and plastic surgery, nepo babies and privilege, cultural 'critique', misogyny, and accountability. ✷see more ✷ www.youtube.com/@sephyandwing ✷ www.instagram.com/sephyandwing ✷ www.tiktok.com/@sephyandwingshop ✷ www.sephyandwing.co.uk Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Go back to school with Rogers and get Canada's fastest and most reliable internet. Perfect for streaming lectures all day or binging TV shows all night. Save up to $20 per month on Rogers' internet. Visit Rogers.com for details. We got you, Rogers. Goes Without Saying, you're listening to Goes Without Saying with Sefi and Wing. I'm Sefi. And I'm Wing. And this, God god it was a great episode. we asked you guys what would you be cancelled for and god you came through with some absolute crazy things. it's kind of a continuation of our conversation from

the last episode about women on the internet, can they win, spoiler, no, you're gonna be hated whatever you do. and i think we go into a few angles. we talk about plastic surgery, we talk about nepo babies, god we talk about everything. and i had a great time so enjoy. well how are you? good. how are you? good. we were just having a brief conversation about like autumn and i will say i didn't realize how much i needed for september air to just take me into gear a little bit Well, we were talking a bit the other day. I am in the kind of back-to-school energy Which is iconic Buying like pens and things like that

Potentially the best energy you could have. I have not had a September like that in a long long Well since fucking uni, so I have not I'm so excited oh god it really gets the juices flowing. Walking around WH Smith being like I think I want that rubber I want that pencil case kind of like why do I want a fucking protractor and a set square all of a sudden. Don't need one. No you definitely don't need one. I'm definitely not, not needed. But it does get you in the spirit doesn't it? It does, yeah. There's just something this year has been so weird and I really needed September to just come in and tell me everything is okay. Totally. Your birthday in September, your birthday is coming up quite soon. And your second birthday is coming up quite soon as well. Oh yeah, well it says my second birthday before your first birthday.

You've lapped me. I have, somehow I've lapped you. Well my second birthday is actually a bit of a... I've fucked it up a little bit because so if anyone knew my whole thing, my birthday is 27th of December, but no one's around, it's a shit day, everyone's done including me, everyone's all set. I'm around, but yeah. But no one really is, everyone's kind including me, everyone's just all sad. I'm around, but yeah. But no one really is, everyone's kind of like around in like an abstract way, but on the actual day it's just everyone, it's Christmas, like I don't, it's fine.

And all I want to do is go to like the theatre on that day, like that's kind of my routine. But I was like, right, okay, summer birthday, I'll do it. Oh shit, which wasn't about September already, the summer's passed, I didn't do it. Summer's still going we're still hanging on. It is still going but I've kind of waited till September which I feel like everyone goes on turns out everyone's on fucking holiday on the beginning of September and I'm leaving. Not me. Yeah no not you thank god so you're in attendance of my second birthday. I'm not going anywhere., but that is ideal. Yeah So my second birthday is happening on Saturday and I can't wait which is gonna be really nice. Yeah, I'm really excited It's I'm really excited for it. But then your first your actual real birthday is happening a couple weeks after yeah 25th So we're both September babies this year

I will also be a December baby. Yeah As you should I'm just moving it around guys. I'm just trying then I will also be a December baby. Yeah, as you should. As you should. I'm just moving it around guys. I'm just trying to see some people have a nice time. Just trying to live our lives. You know. I don't know what we're gonna do though. You know what I would like to do?

I feel like you are quite an outside gal. Yeah. Or you're quite a nature gal. I would love to be a bit natural. A bit natural always. Yeah. It's a bit like, right. Just something, you know, I'm excited. Well I'm thinking have a fire

in the garden, always marshmallows, that kind of vibe. That's what I want. I would love to bring a marshmallow or two. Yeah. Beautiful. This is fun. We're gonna talk about how everyone's gonna get cancelled. Yeah, because we had such a good time last time. So on Monday we were talking about the Blake Lively and famously justin baldoni, who everyone cares about, conversation. and just the conversation in general about how it is to be perceived and all the interesting ways that we all perceive things very differently. internet kind of weirdness. yeah. and cancellation vibes. it's kind of, it's taylor swift, i would very much like to be excluded from this narrative one that I never asked to be a part of but it is the narrative So like before you know it the narrative has overtaken you as lapdj. Yeah

So we've asked He very sneakily on Instagram, which I have started actually a survey, but I haven't put it it's not done Oh, okay. But you'll also be... I'm excited for this survey. Yeah. I thought about that. Yeah me too. Because I saw some people saying yes to the survey, yes to the survey. Yeah. Okay so you're keen for this survey then. Okay so we asked on the story. Just listen to last week's episode which not even last week's Monday's episode the episode before this because we it was a really good episode as well. We're talking about... Same. Women. Same. We had good takes i think. as we

do. yeah. can't help but. okay and we've asked on the story today if you were famous what would you be cancelled for? just to almost give a bit of room. yeah great question hey. i would love to know because it is funny. what are people coming through with? okay so the first one that i thought, it's quite funny, people have said like hating men which shouldn't be a cancelable offence sort of thing. someone else said man-hating but then someone else said not washing my towels and bedding regularly enough and it's really the energy of that bit in Mean Girls where they're like oh my shoulders like I have man shoulders like my cuticles my cuticles are done she's like I

have really bad breath in the morning and everyone's like thank you so much for sharing. I love it. Everyone's coming through with the man hating angle, just to be clear. There's a theme running guys. Yeah, so I think people are feeling very strongly about that. Hateful. But I love this one actually.

For this one, they said my privilege and the money my family has. It's like, yikes, love that feeling. Yeah, it would get you. it would get you but you know what until it does embrace it you know what it probably wouldn't get you. i think with that it doesn't get you cancelled it just gets that there's just will be a conversation around you but i mean there's context. if you look at the successful people they're not cancelled. most of these people have rich families most of these people are fucking nepo babies. No, the small folk are the ones who get cancelled.

Yeah, if you count these celebrities that are like the top people right now, look at their parents. Like they're all the fucking actors and shit from the generation before. Don't worry, that won't get you cancelled. It was that Zoe Deschanel thing that was like, she was like, nobody gets a job from their dad being a cinematographer. Nobody cares about cinematographers. It's like Zoe Baby boo, Zoe. You know what I was thinking about that a couple days ago because I was listening to an episode I don't know if I even it's so UK based. So it's like I don't know. I was listening to Rylands podcast If you don't know him went on Xactor, he's now like this morning,

he's like a UK presenter guy, he's good vibes for sure. He has a podcast called How to be in the Spotlight, I think his BBC sounds is good. It's a funny name. He talks to Daisy, basically Daisy Mae Cooper was on it and I'm obsessed with Daisy Mae Cooper so I listened to it for her. But then I was like, okay, I'm into Ryland, I need to hear some stuff. Good vibes from this girl, like she was giving great vibes, but there was a conversation about nepo babies. It was Emily Atak who was on the Inbetweeners. I had a rumour about her that she's having a baby with her cousin.

Yeah, they were talking about rumours, she was saying a lot of them weren't true but also it was a while ago so i don't know. i think that's her cousin and they were raised together or like not raised together but like it's like it's not it's not great it makes you more down-to-earth for sure. yeah but i hate it don't shoot the messenger guys but anyway. it's not ideal is it? raised together is just too Lannister. i'd rather be cancelled for my family's money

and my privilege than my choice to fuck my cousin. Yeah, I think I would, to be honest, it's not even about the cancellation. I'll do anything to not fuck my cousin. Yeah, yeah. I don't want to actually do that. No, I'd rather not, for sure. I'd really, really, really rather not.

Really would rather not. But the conversation they were having is, it was a conversation about Nepo Baby, which I didn't know she was a Nepo Baby or baby whatever her uncle or something is fucking Paul McCartney. So conversation ended Her dad is also a something and her mom's an impressionist. They are TV people. Her mom's Jesus. Her dad's in a band or something? I don't know. They're famous people. Rylan poses the question to her He was like so there's a thing about nepo babies like that is obviously what people would say hearing this conversation but you've obviously done this all throughout your

through your own merit and she was like yeah totally like I all it did was give me the upper hand to kind of learn how to deal with rejection from an early age and blah blah blah blah. oh yeah I bet I bet you felt massively rejected with your famous dad and your famous mom and your... but this is what shocks me every fucking time there is no issue there is no fucking issue with being privileged and being born into it's not good is it a privileged life there is no inherent issue in that the issue is in you continually claiming opportunities that could be for other people and then being in complete denial that you've done that.

There is a lot of naivety in that conversation and I get it because it's like I don't know how they could even begin to see outside of their own. It's so entrenched in who we are. It's so so deep. It's kind of beyond words. It just shocks me how every single one of them seems to say the same thing. There seems to be a spiel that they all sort of have, think they've kind of come up with on their own. But the idea that someone could say to you, but you've done it through your own merit,

kind of handing you the conversation of like, well, I have and I haven't. And every single time they go, yeah, I've done it on my own. Well, that's the thing I think is it doesn't ever negate that person's talent or skill or work ethic or all of these things. That can all totally still exist. But it tells you why they have that skill and talent and they've had that nurtured. They could have it from that. And also like all the other things that they have, all the other leg ups. This is not at the person who said their family has money by the way, I love that for you.

This is completely a side note. Completely not. But like look around, all of these people are from those places, they really fucking are. And they've created amazing things. Like if you think of like, I don't know, everyone who came to my mind with them was like Phoebe Waller-Bridge. Love, love, love. We all know she's super privileged, but she's never once been cancelled for being privileged because there seems to be a genuine talent and all of this stuff and acknowledgement and all of the stuff. The problem comes when people say things like they're self-made when clearly, well, why are all your other sisters famous then? It is difficult, isn't it? It is a tricky one. I do think it must be really hard to

compute. It's almost like system error. It's just not compatible. It's like we're speaking different languages here. It's just, it's almost like system error like it's just not compatible it's like we're speaking different languages here it's just it's not it's unfortunate though because it's not landing it is actually just unfortunate like there is a real opportunity to have a real conversation but people seem to like actually not be able to go there no I don't think we can go there no I think it's actually your uncle or whatever it's not uncle but something is Paul McCartney is in your family. That is really interesting and cool. That's absolutely insane. I would love to know more on this situation. This person said like what would get them cancelled is a video exposing

their BFFs, them and their BFFs private conversation. Yeah. okay welcome to the freaking podcast maybe. like, i.. it is intriguing hey? because i've.. i overhear some things. totally. and i say something. i've been overhearing. i really think.. i don't know. cancellation is a weird thing and i don't know really if i even agree with it. i think it's more just like conversation in general. critique. critique. exactly. which is so necessary. which can be really heavy-handed though i think. i think that people are so desperate, and what we've seen with the blake lively thing is people are so desperate to take down people for like kind of things they would say themselves, have said themselves. i know that if i put a microphone in your living room i mean give it 24 hours i think by the internet standards you're fucking done for. Yeah I'll have something that I could spin if I wanted to.

Totally. Yeah I'm sure I'm not saying you're a bad person in private and everyone's a bad person in private. Far from. I think it's just you can take teeny fragments of like someone else said they would get cancelled for like not smiling one time and it's like yeah I think it's that I think it's moments are really Spinable we can spin anything any which way. And the internet standards for a human being especially a woman They're crazy like it's that you cannot make one mistake. You can never be seen to be mean, rude, bitchy Any of the like sort of look different in any way, whatever that might be.

You have to basically fit this like really specific and to be honest, fucking boring archetype of a person, which of course you don't fit that in your normal life because you're a normal fucking human that is flawed and cool and interesting. We've forgotten what it is to be like a normal person who's just like walking down the street with a straight face or like not posing or bending over backwards every

second. Yeah, you're not a mannequin with clothes on smiling in photos. You're a person and you've got opinions and I do think you should be able to share them even if they're not really... No, but even if they're normal. Correct. I think that's the main thing is most opinions that people are giving generally are pretty fair enough. Just like, oh, I don't wanna wear that red thing. And that could be a whole thing that could be the end of you.

Totally. So intriguing. Yeah. Like it's not about how people are saying wild things and then people are holding them accountable. It's that I think we've forgotten. I think we're not very good at like, especially with social media where we're inundated with everyone's thoughts

and beliefs and whatever and we're really disconnected from everyone so we're really looking for ways that we can feel like we're part of a group and part of a community. I think we're finding it more uncomfortable than ever to be faced with any opinion or perspective that slightly slightly great against our own. Also the internet has a really weird moral code. We all have an awareness that in life people do things, they make mistakes, and they can still be a good person that's made like many mistakes I think. I know loads of people that have fucked up loads of times done loads of things of shit I don't like like you still would count them like a good person

Yeah, someone that I'm interested in all of this stuff. The internet has a really weird fixation with morality But like people we we're very very quick to brand people as good or bad and not be able to see any nuance in Well, okay If you sat down with that person that to be honest is like a whore on on the internet You probably would have some stuff in common with them or if you sat down with this person that is like the angel of the fucking moment on the internet you might think well they're not ready for me like there is yeah no room for like personal taste humor like all of this like just the huge nuance of what it means to be a human the internet loves loves loves to simplify everything and especially into like good and bad

and one mistake and you're put in the bad camp and good luck getting out of that. I think that's the thing with the internet as well is it's very much telling you what to think. Like you can't help but. Which we discovered last week. Yeah, and you can't help be a part of your algorithm that will be continuing to feed you one version of a opinion or one version of a situation

and then you'll continue to get the same thing. I also think a big crux of the whole situation in general and just the way that young people specifically view like ethics and people and also the way that we engage with social media is the crux is this this is like, this is all kids. This is like young people. This is like people under the age of 25 passing judgments on people

who are probably under the age of 25. Like we are taking on the opinions of like, you're taking on the opinion of like a 16 year old from somewhere you've never been. And you're thinking, oh yeah, definitely. And then you're gonna take that on for the right, like we're absorbing so much. Yeah from people who are also Really influenced like really malleable and yeah. Oh my god. Okay, two people have just said the same thing

Oh, wow, and I would love to discuss it in detail Okay, literally at the same time these came through. Okay, so this person said my thoughts on filler slash surgery I'm doing it for me in quotes brackets. Okay, so this person said, my thoughts on filler slash surgery, I'm doing it for me, in quotes, brackets, no you're not. Spoiler alert, it's the patriarchy. And someone else said, criticizing plastic surgery, it's patriarchal, why won't people speak up? Obvs, it's nothing against individuals,

I just love that energy of like, why is nobody saying anything? Why would someone speak up? So draped. I think people are speaking up. All the time. And I also think, again, there's nobody saying anything. why would someone speak up? so draped. i think people are speaking up. all the time. and i also think, again, there's nuance. i personally, i'm kind of in agreement with, mine is more like a matter of taste. i don't think it looks very good. i don't see much beauty in what the beauty standard, that specific beauty standard seems to be. but i don't think that makes me want to say to them

that's wrong or any of the stuff, because yes, it's the patriarchy, but so is the reason I fucking paint my nails and feel fucking insecure shit most of the time and straighten my hair and buy a load of clothes and shit. Like so much of what we do is because of the patriarchy. I also think it feeds into the idea of like when you're in the

public eye or just generally like I feel like you can get this in your own life of like the need to justify or explain yourself is... it becomes difficult. What is the problem? Because it forces you to have formulated perfect understandings of why you've done a certain thing yourself which you might not necessarily have and I don't necessarily think is a requirement as a human being to know exactly every detail of why you've done something. We're kind of just moving through doing silly things all the time. And if I did something and then had to explain it or justify it, I probably wouldn't do a very good job because I think the idea that you're coming from a place of like defending yourself

immediately gets you lost in a bit of a riddle and it adds like a ton of context of like well Maybe just because you start bringing up like oh well, I felt bad when I was 11 So now I'm doing it and that somehow seems to justify it as well Like people like to hear that if I said if I just randomly said right now, okay I'm getting a nose job because I decided today I want a nose job brackets I don't but if I said I want that now people would be annoyed at that whereas if I said I've always hated my nose and it's been a lifelong issue people for some reason would accept that there needs I do plastic surgery is a weird one where people they want to

there's like a right and a wrong answer with it yes but I also think there's just a right and a wrong person and if the internet doesn't like you they're not gonna like your sob story and they're not gonna like the fact that you don't like it doesn't matter what you say i think it's just like if it's a bad day for sephi in fame it's a bad day for sephi and it doesn't matter what way you try and swing it if the mob have taken you on and just decided that like it's a bit of fun to take the piss today nothing you say no matter how sincere or like grounded in like your truth as a human being on this planet, none of it is enough. Like it will just, it's truly falling on deaf

ears because we've already made up our minds. Like, and it is kind of that classic thing of like when you're annoyed at someone and then every little thing they do is really annoying even though they're just being innocent people, poor people out there. It kind of is a thing of like, yeah, I'm viewing you through a negative bias and so yeah, nothing you say will impress me because I'm annoyed. Totally. And there does seem to be like a weird spectacle of like plastic surgery gone wrong, especially when it comes to like, so if you look at sort of, I don't know. Go back to school with Rogers and get Canada's fastest and most reliable internet. Perfect for streaming lectures all day or binging TV shows all night.

Save up to $20 per month on Rogers' internet. Visit Rogers.com for details. We got you, Rogers. Someone like maybe Jennifer Aniston, Courtney Cox, like people that were seen as so beautiful like back in the day and then how they, I don't know, I've seen this, people be like, they've had botched surgeries, which I don't know,

when you can watch that sort of friends reunion, it was quite scary to see all the faces there. And I think there's something in that, we love to see a woman that was so beautiful and was like the beauty standard for a generation now be someone that, like, the narrative being, like, hasn't been able to let go of that and has done all this stuff to their face. And I think the phrase that gets thrown around is like, they're aging very ungracefully and things like that, whereas someone else that has not chosen to do that is aging gracefully.

I mean, this weird idea that they can like, accept their age and blah, blah, blah, blah. And it's something that I see someone like, for example, quite a parallel, someone like Julia Roberts get a lot of like, she gets a lot of credit for like, aging really gracefully because she hasn't had like a facelift and stuff. I don't know what she's had, but she doesn't look, doesn't look filleted in that same way. But at the same time, I did see a thing of her where it was her sitting down with her kid or whatever and she got like, kind of, everyone was saying she looked old and like haggard and shit. And it's like, okay so you really can't win. Of course not. If you choose to do this stuff as a woman,

they don't like it because it shows you that you're trying and if you don't, there is no, also like, both ways they hate which just does show you cannot win, it's not about your face, it's never been about your face, it's not really about the fucking surgery. they just hate women. totally. totally. it also reminds me of the like child star disney star thing of like the spectacle of.. people just love to watch the car crash almost as well like as the small folk. it's so nice to look on to see like what the rich and famous are up to and see them get absolutely destroyed by it and I feel like it comes with an arrogance of like I would never do that I would never do that and it is the classic thing of

exactly so much judgment but it is the classic thing of like you I guess will never know what you would do if you got rich Famous because you won't be Russian Famous, it's just sorry to say. Do you know what I mean? Like it's just like yeah we'll never know if you were Amanda Bynes or not because that was never you and like... Also imagine seeing Amanda Bynes. Oh I don't know it's just a sad state of the world that we see Amanda Bynes and there is undeniably a spectacle in that watching someone go from like the Amanda show beautiful star like definitely a success and then seeing where she ends up there is such a spectacle in that but it's so horrible that we've got to the point where it's an opportunity rather than to like feel empathy for a human that has clearly been through the fucking wringer we see it as an opportunity to

be like oh what a shame oh yeah it's gross I think our instincts are all wrong and I think social media allows all of our worst, just the worst parts of our nature sometimes to play out, especially when it becomes a kind of group effort and like a bonding experience for all these people to like make judgements about the way that somebody looks or whatever. And no one's thinking straight. It's exactly what we're saying in the last episode. Oh, God. Like, people just, far from.

You see one opinion and you just absorb it as your own. You see the next opinion, They're in their wrong minds. You absorb it as your own. Yes. And that's the nature of the internet. That's kind of how it functions. Like, we just are regurgitating

the popular thought of that moment. But I do think that's something to really really fight against. Fuck what was I going to say? I saw, you know Summer Fox? I think you do, if you saw her I think you'd recognise her. I saw a TikTok of hers the other day and she really made me laugh. She makes me laugh in general. I actually walked past her once in Brighton and I thought-

Oh hi Summer Fox. Hi Summer Fox. That's exactly what I thought yeah. Hi Summer Fox. She has a Canadian boyfriend. Does that ring any bells for you? No, it doesn't. Should I Google her? Yeah, go on then it might ring a bell for the listener Like God you guys are on the wrong side of the internet If you don't know who summer fox is, but you found yourself listening to sephian wing you're you're um, you're not like the other girls I'll tell you that much But yeah, she has a she's a Canadian boyfriend and she like quit her job one day and started to talk

I think I can't remember anyway, she made a video the other day that really made me laugh It was her talking about a filler that she was gonna get I'm not gonna like butcher her perspective But there was just one bit that made me she always makes me laugh because she is funny But there was just one bit where she was like the same people who will be like to me don't do that You don't need to do that will see me and next time they see me they'll be like oh you look good like why do you look so good and they won't know that it's because i've had the thing done that they told me not to do and i just thought that was very funny of like we're always always always always you are coming from a place of naivety when you're

engaging in anyone on this planet you actually we don't know each other that well like none of us here know each other that well i barely know myself in fact it's really really honestly quite impossible to come to anybody with the presumption that you actually know anything at all about them ever and i think it's just really important to stay aware of like how much honestly you don't know how much you don't know and when passing judgment or just like the way that we understand people there's so much that you would just never know about that it's just very funny isn't it? yeah i think especially when it comes down to visual things like that i mean i do think it probably is so enhanced by the internet and just kind of like tabloid culture of the last like

it's so tabloid culture it's so tabloid culture like the way that people feel entitled to comment or like make public observations on like what people look like or changes that someone might make. to the point where you're saying to your friend, summer fox's friends come up to her and go oh i don't think you should get that filler blah blah blah i don't know i do think if my friend said they were gonna get filler yeah you would say no don't do it. i know i would want i would probably i don't know depending on who they were it depends it depends what's the thought yeah exactly you would have a conversation about it. you would you would want to have a conversation about it. because i do think in the way that the two people that wrote this in and probably more by the time that we have not looked at it. Yeah, yeah.

It does come down to the patriarchy, and of course, so much of it fucking does. So much of our lives do. But there is something about surgery that feels very permanent, and you're making a decision to cut your body. It's huge. It's also money.

Yeah, it's a huge, huge thing, and I don't think it should be at all as normalised as it is there are cases for everything and you could give me a great counter argument and i would probably agree with that as well but i do think in my gut it's a thing that it's a super extreme decision to make that has been really normalized. agreed. what was i gonna say? i, ay, ay. I'm so sorry, let's just hold that there because I've got something, something somewhere. Oh shit, I don't know, it's gone. I always lose my thoughts here.

It's hard to keep the thoughts going to be honest. They're always running away from me. Fuck, but I do want it, I want it back because it was just a bit new for me. Yeah, okay, go on. You wouldn't mind me just holding on, yeah. It was, you know when you think something you on. yeah. yeah. it was you know when you think something you've never really thought before and it's like oh if i catch up with that i

could kind of that could be interesting. it could have legs. yeah it could have legs. so almost i wouldn't mind picking it up by its legs and being like have you got legs? like yeah. right it's a patriarchal. everything about surgery sure is thearchy, but then I also think the conversations about surgery are also the patriarchy. But the idea of saying to your friend, do or don't do that, is patriarchy, and the way that we say to each other, I'm going to do this, da da da,

the whole thing boils down to patriarchy, like everything in this world. So it didn't really have legs, it was just that. Glad we got that out of our system. No, yeah, I couldn't agree more. it was just that. I'm glad we got that out of our system. No yeah that couldn't have been more. That was worth it. Because also if you look at who, of course there are so so so many cases of there's so much surgery that's marketed towards men as well but it doesn't take a fucking genius to see who this is marketed towards. I think that's my thing. It is for women. Kind of in the Ryland world as well and kind of in the Summer Fox thing. Why

I like that from her and why I like everything she says, cause I love to hear a thought from her and I love to celebrate women with thoughts. Totally. There's a misogyny, there's a huge level of misogyny towards especially young women who have had surgery where they, I don't think they are viewed as like individuals living in a patriarchy, blah, blah, blah. They're looked down on. Like they're looked down on and they're undermined

and I think their intelligence is undermined because they are participating in a part of the patriarchy that other people aren't or whatever. But also that's really exclusive. Yeah. Like I just think it's more,'s it's just it's the classic thing of like it's it's just really um isn't this world so fucked up? yes yes. do you know what i mean? but i think a lot of the why i think like i love that person being like somebody needs to speak up is because i think a lot of anyone who is quote unquote speaking up that i've seen is coming from actually like a derogatory angle of like looking down on the kind of only wears Essex lifestyle and

And in a really classist way also looking down Yeah, no understanding of what they're talking about and just looking down on girls who get filler, which I think is really grim And they're not doing what they think they're doing. Like they're not doing the critique on patriarchy They just are critiquing women, which I find really just embarrassing. But whatever. It's not great, I'll put it that way. It's not great.

It's not great. I get the thing of like we all slip into, it's hard out here to exist on this earth, 100%. And like we all participate in things that we don't like every single day, like capitalist queens, 100%. But sometimes when we're critiquing, what we think we're critiquing is capitalism, we think we're critiquing what we think we're critiquing is capitalism we think we're critiquing the patriarchy and you're not

you're just like having a go at a girl on the internet for example I think that's the thing that bugs me generally about the internet like the kind of Blake Lively thing I've just like you think you're having a go at the patriarchy but you're not you're just having a go at some girl well to be honest the Blake Lively stuff I think also I mean it really sort of stands out because it's so it's so wrapped up I think with like to be honest a bit of jealousy like there it is the perfect target to find out oh my god she's actually really horrible it's like oh my god she reminds me of my school bully she's perfect I knew she was it's her time it's like oh my god she reminds me of my school bully. she's perfect. i knew

she was. it's her time. it's obviously the exact person that the internet... yeah. they want to... yeah. it's time. it's... yeah. i think that's the thing is, yes, your time has come. it's the grim reaper knocking on the door. sorry sim. the game is over. it's not great. it's not great. it's not great. okay final question to you. if you were famous because you're not what would you be cancelled for? what would be your cancelable fence? oh my god i was trying to think of this um but i honestly have no idea. many things. so many things. not for you i mean for myself. do you have one? um let me think. whilst i'm thinking. i think I'm just a bit annoying and like, look, we've already got, there's hundreds of hours of podcast content on there so we'd be cancelled before we even got going

to be honest. Like we've, we've shot ourselves in the foot there. You can't get famous via a podcast so we fucked it. Just immediately out the gate. Dead. Dead. That would last two weeks before someone digs something up from October 2022 and before you know it you're out in the dust. We're gone. Yeah, we're goners. I think I do often think, I especially had this thought a lot at the beginning when we first started this out. The idea of these episodes finding their way

onto like Andrew Tate, that sort of side of the internet, is not necessarily a cancellation, but I think you can definitely take episodes of this, which I know the incels of the internet is not necessarily a cancellation, but I think you can definitely take episodes of this, which I know the incels of the world will despise. Like they will literally hate our freaking guards, which they do anyway, just because they're women. But they would absolutely hate some of the shit that we're saying on here. So I kind of think I don't want a whole side, a huge, huge, huge portion of the internet, I don't want a whole side. A huge, huge, huge portion of the internet, I don't want them to ever find this.

Or ever get hooked on it. A huge portion of the real world. You know, I don't want them to even. I don't wanna be a character in that world. I don't wanna be a player in that game. Not at all. So that kind of scares me, but okay, we've said some things

that I know would get us quite destroyed. And won't be looked at with the benefit of the doubt. Hated by a huge portion. Even though I don't like that portion, they also really fucking scare me. Of course, yeah. Especially at the moment, things are weird. Definitely.

I feel like this is not really a response to the question, but just a thought in general. I feel like the main thing that I learned throughout, especially the beginning process of the pod, or when we first started having people listen, which, thank you so much, was that you? Thank you so much, I'm so embarrassed, I'm shy, thank you for being here.

Was a big learning thing of, oh, I'm not ever, no one is necessarily listening from a good faith place of like, they're not assuming the best, that's for sure. And there's no, And that's fine. I think it made me learn kind of what we were saying at the beginning of like, I don't, not even I don't think, I know, not just me, most people, it's not like you're a bad person in private.

That's not what this is. It's not about saying like, oh yeah, if you were just famous for five minutes, we would all see how bad you are. And the only reason we think you're good is because we don't see it. No, we see how human you are. Exactly. I think it's more just about it's not that you are not good it's just that sometimes not um sometimes goodness just is whatever it's just real it's just messy and you can spin things you can turn it or you can speak wrong you say something like do you know what I mean it's just a lot more fluid I think than i thought goodness in the way that the internet um sort of poses it does not fucking exist it doesn't exist it's kind of jk rolling saying that evil 10 year olds get to be in slytherin it's like that's

not really true it's not really true it's too simplified it's stupid we all know it but for some reason it's kind of the haunted mansion of um the internet you know it's not real but you still are screaming yeah it is anything funny that you'd get cancelled for um let me rack my histories i have restarted my animal crossing island about 500 times i know that's not cancelled at all it would definitely create some commotion i think it would create a conversation about why can't she just be happy with what she's got tom nook is for you he's not happy with her yeah tax evader you owe him so much money by now exactly yeah god well things like that jesus i wouldn't make it out of the door i'm complete i'm cancelled about five times before i've even like

had breakfast i think it's just like let's all just be a bit more weird or like look the world isn't very kind But I think in this circle, we're quite nice to each other around here So yeah, as long as you're with that you're free to be whoever you are with us. That's totally I don't want to be Surrounded by I don't want to be consuming stuff that's made by I don't want to be held to any standard of like perfection in any way that I really really really, really do think the most interesting

and cool and just the people I like are not these sort of cookie cutter, PR brained, nothingness people. That doesn't sound good. That does not sound good to me. I've never known such a thing, to be honest. I've never seen it in real life. So I don't know why the standard exists.

Because that sounds fucking dumb. I don't even think the standard exists, it's just an abstract thing. There's no standard of what's good enough, there's just like a general idea that everyone is just general critique is not good enough yeah yeah there's no standard of acceptable there's no way to be acceptable that much is true there's no way to be acceptable as a woman on this planet so we might as well just enjoy ourselves, get back, relax, cherry pie. Yes just do what feels good for you. Totally.

Alright. Because they're gonna hate you either way. Exactly! There's a line in a Taylor Swift song that I really want you to hear. And I wanted you to hear it. Oh god. Oh no. Nothing, nothing, nothing.

I did just see that notification. Yeah, no it's all good. But maybe I won't. But it's a song, it's kind of the, we can't make any promises now can we babe but you can make me a a song it's kind of the we can't make any promises now can we babe but you can make me a drink it's kind of that sort of vibe it's similar to that but anyway alright bye guys. Wait can I hear it? Not now. What? That just got me all excited. I know my nan used to say excited and delighted she would say. Well now I'm excited and now I want to be delighted.

I haven't quite been delighted yet. You'll be delighted when you hear it. Maybe I'll play it for you on your second birthday. Okay birthday. As a birthday prezzy. Okay I can't wait. Alright okay bye guys. Definitely don't get me a present by the way. Well I've been thinking about just something. Yeah no no I knew you would and I just want to be like that's not a thing. Don't don't do that. There's something specific that I want to make work But please don't do anything like I kind of know something that I know you're like So I know that I don't want double presents because I will be expecting like oh no you will Don't get me anything you know all right. Well, just let me just let me cook

You've also done because it's just a bit mental to be like I want to get double birthday no just leave it to me okay leave it to me right bye what have I done I just wanted to see some people that's all I wanted to do if you don't hear from us assume the worst Go back to school with Rogers and get Canada's fastest and most reliable internet.

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