Goes Without Saying - red flags and dating 'types': congratulations, you played yourself

Episode Date: May 11, 2020

is he really your "type", or is that just a socially constructed narrative that you project onto people? oop... it couldn't be us. in this fun episode of Goes Without Saying, we (sephy & wing) discuss dating red flags and the problematic idea of "types". we're examining our own romantic relationships and answering your dating dilemmas to find out whether "types" exist, or if that's just good old fashioned patriarchal programming. why are we always attracted to the bad boy? why are we drawn to toxic relationships? join us in this ep as we break it down! speak your mind on our instagram! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

hey do you want to talk about dating red flags types i always want to talk about dating and red flags iconic and types my favorite topic shall we do it let's do it right now okay cool well i'm erin and i'm persephone and oh my god i was gonna say and together we are ablisa punch you in the face i loved ablisa that was my favorite episode they were crazy and the kind of backward punch it's like with her fist yeah it was a real elbow to the face and i always remember they go off stage and derma is like you must not strike people and it's like god that's a weird way to say that strike he's like why did you say strike derma you must not strike people on itv we don't strike people in this establishment crazy in front of simon cowell and cheryl carl

oh iconic so once again we've asked you guys a series of questions a series of unfortunate events and they really i was literally just about to say they really turned out to be a series of unfortunate events what unfolded before our eyes honestly we could have predicted yeah we know we know what you guys are up to we've been new um do you have a type when dating fucking hell hundreds of you said yes some of you said no just quite interesting well how many can you tell me the percentages hundreds so do you have a type when dating yes 56 oh that's yes because it was sitting in i thought it would be sitting in the 80s for like a long time that's changed overnight quite drastically yeah exactly i was gonna come in like why does everyone have a type and no one has one it one. It really is the Australian kind of gang waking up and being like,

what are Hypercess talking about? No, I don't have a type. In the past, my type has been 67% dangerous for me, you guys said. That's crazy. 67? 67% dangerous. Only 33% of you said that you had a healthy type. Yikes.

In the past, 86% of you have been willing to compromise on red flags to keep things sweet while dating. I put, be honest, for example, not communicating your needs, wanting more frequent texts and communication and not saying in order to keep them happy or seem chilled. Yeah. Because I knew that would get you guys because in reality, who's being honest about what they actually need in relationships not you lot no not me not you guys not you guys that's for sure and then you sent in lots of different stories about your red flags the things you've compromised on the ugly scrappy dappy days that you've settled for honestly yeah i just want to say this has been the biggest response yet every week we're coming in like this has been huge but like we're

overwhelmed like we can't read them all i'm sorry no we can't at this point it's like we would do a whole we promise we read every single one is that at this point yeah i can listen i cannot confirm nor deny that i'm reading them all this is the thing i was thinking in the shower today i was like right i wonder so we have 7 000 followers 7 500 600 maybe but who's counting who's counting apart from me every morning apart from us every single morning every single minute of every single day we're counting get it on the spreadsheet but who's counting yeah ignore our spreadsheet but who's counting yeah ignore our spreadsheet but who's counting and i do think i was thinking so we have 7 650 followers to the number but i was thinking what does fucking how many dms does rihanna get like we can't even keep up with the dms we literally

can't keep up like i have to set aside like hours a day to like go through like admin of all of this stuff it's like how the fuck i guess she doesn't bad gallery is not looking through her she's busy like working on an album i know she's as if fingers crossed guys but we can't even keep up with like our measly 7k how the fuck is is zoella doing it it's a testament to how um amazing you guys are and how many hilarious stories you have and just how sweet you are and you're just the best maybe you guys are just super dedicated yeah i think they're just the best maybe we're just the best okay so one that i found particularly interesting was sorry just reading that i just saw a crazy one someone said about um

if you if you go for people that are good for you or not someone said i'm not sure i'm even questioning if my husband is right for me anymore i'm dying i can't well if you're writing that in if you're let me just think let's work on that one first that's okay okay let's spend some time with that let's just work on that because that's kind of hooked me before we get into types wait so let me look at the exact question that i asked in your experience do you tend to date people that are good for you and they said i'm not sure i'm even questioning if my husband is right for me anymore oh i'm guts for you i'm absolutely guts also it's guts galore thinking of your husband is right for you during a pandemic oh it's like the time you've spent time with him you're like

is this guy right for me that's bad well that's like how the fuck do you get out honestly get me out of here or is it iconic i kind of feel like that's iconic i kind of feel like there's something so stunning about divorce. All right, let's go. Take it away. What a weird sentence. Because people know my views on marriage. If you've listened to the love and dating episodes, I kind of feel like is a divorce not the biggest liberation of all time? Well, if you haven't listened, what are your views on marriage?

Your overall view. My overall views on marriage, and I used to write for a wedding magazine so i'm i was in the deep end of wedding planning man yeah but my views on marriage and my parents were never married and they were together for a very very very very long time had very happy relationship until they split up when you were a child until they split up when i was a traumatic split but this is the thing with that marriage to me does not I'm not getting married here's the crux of it I'm never getting married because I know that

it is a receipt it's a buying order the history of marriage is nothing I would ever participate in I'm crossing my arms like I'm kind of participating as in doing it for yourself you would participate in it by selling joining a company and talking about it yeah I'll sell you your oppression but i'm not gonna be okay so divorce is a beautiful thing you're

gonna say because it just like revives women emancipates women of their burdens of men and their male counterparts i just think a divorce is quite stunning you're writing into a sort of empowered instagram page going i might divorce my husband yeah the bureaucracy of it is quite hilarious it's quite crazy it's quite crazy to do but I'm here for it I mean if you want to I'm not anti-divorcing your husband if he's not right for you go for it well I think actually it's quite interesting so the common a lot of the there was a common thread amongst those messages that a lot of people i would say on the upper scale of our age range in our demographic talking about how in their youth they spent a lot of time with waste of space men and now in their older years have either found a path to like decent people and like people who

benefit them or are still stuck in that pattern so i think it's quite interesting that that person has gone through seeing someone talking to someone dating someone being proposed to maybe proposing to getting married being married writing onto high priestess saying that you're not sure if your husband is right for you that's a real it's a whirlwind of emotions unfortunate series of events yeah truly i mean I don't know the context obviously but I'm never I don't hear of a divorce and immediately think of sadness I think my I think I'm too um I've I'm too like um my like... Your trauma's kicking in. No, like my, I just like want to save everyone.

Like kind of, not in a really saint way. I do. Well, I said, well, I don't know if I said this on the pod, but my parents getting divorced was one of the happiest days of my life because I was so excited for them to both be so happy um you know separately but um I think yeah theoretically divorce is so stunning I think in practice um it's a fucking mess I I think it's rare that people are drawn to divorce and there is no sadness there so that that keeps me is that's what it's like no I do think of divorce and think of sadness

because my heart just aches for all of the conversations that you've had, all of the arguments that you've had, all of the thoughts that you've had, all of the times that you've wrote into an Instagram page saying, I'm not sure, the thoughts of your children, the fear, the change, everything. It's like such an upheaval of people's lives that I think most often that is attached to sadness and I love

the idea of it being so stunning and like emancipatory for women shedding their ugly male counterparts love that the scrappy dappy do's honestly throwing them in the bin get rid of the scrappy dappy do's absolutely but I just think most of the time it's not going to be a fun process no absolutely not no I think I love the the symbol of like i am leaving i thought this was for life and i'm leaving it i've grown i'm leaving this behind me yeah but yeah of course you're fucking leaving and you're crying though you know what you would love did you ever see that thing it's probably happened quite a few times but it's been viral of this is a while ago of a woman who had a divorce party no but that sounds stunning so it's

like it was like a hen party or like a bachelorette party with all of her friends and she wore like a veil or whatever but she was getting a divorce and she was like celebrating and she had like strippers and stuff it was like really funny just a really fun old time yeah i think that's fun yeah really fun old time i think as soon as children get involved yeah there's a whole there's a huge mess involved even just two people that have you've spent so much of your time with something there's so much history there's so much emotion attached to that a lot of that emotion is sadness i think yeah hugely absolutely well i have no advice for you because i would never find myself in the predicament of being there.

You really said because I wouldn't be a dumb bitch by getting married anyway. So you can't relate, sorry. No, but I really think, I mean, obviously we don't know the context and you're not coming to us for advice, but we need to shine a shine a light on how with lack of respect for you know better word how um fascinating it is that we constantly if we're talking about types and dating throw ourselves into situations and then end up not being sure and really I think there's so much shame as well around that yeah and so much fear especially particularly if you've been married it's like you've gone through a whole stage of your life um i really don't think there should be shame in walking away from that but also i'm not an idiot

totally get that there's so much fear in um leaving what you've built i'm struggling with debating whether i should restart my animal crossing island even though i've dedicated so much time to it no so i get it i know what it's like i know what it's like to leave and abandon something you've worked so hard on sorry i'm fascinated why are you gonna abandon ikamorama ikamorama you remembered it oh for god oh my god you actually remember something i'm gonna cry that is so cute um with the pears i know about it well i would i would recall it i'd call it the same thing again and also you know what is funny okay guys so here's the thing i've got an i've got a switch i'm playing animal crossing i'm doing my island it's called ikamarama i've got pears etc

sephi is yet to have animal crossing she's yet to have a switch yeah it's in the works yeah it's in the works i'm not i'm not um i'm not just being spiteful and rubbing it in your face there is a point of me saying this um so i went to nooks cranny one day and what did i find the perfect gift for seffy when you actually get it so i have i bought myself one and i also bought another one because i was like when seffy gets his game she will die over this like she needs to have it like it's the most amazing item this is why i'm not withholding this information as well because it will make you get a switch i want to know so bad incredibly manipulative relationship i just can't bear not to know that i'm gonna spend i'm gonna spend 300

quid just to know what it's not 300 quid you quid. You can get it. How much is a Switch and Animal Crossing? You can get a Switch Lite for like 200 quid. And then how much is the game? 50? Yeah, 40, 50. 250 rounding up to 300. I guess. Well, anywho, it'll be worth it. Anywho, you're speaking like you're from Animal Crossing.

Anywho. Yeah. I'm blathers anyway too much um yeah you're gonna fucking flip when you see this gift anyway so that was what i was thinking if i was like if i restart my island i'm gonna lose the gift i'm gonna lose sephie's gift so i can't oh my god you're keeping it just for the gift so that's what's keeping oh my god that was what was keeping me although then i did think i could go to my friend's island and give her the gift and say can you hold on to this for me while i restart my island holding it for a friend and then i go back and say can i have my gift back can i just see why

you want to start your restart your island that feels quite crazy so top tips pro tip so first of all my island is pretty stunning i mean wouldn't expect anything less and and i'm not an idiot like i went into it being very strategic with all of my choices my houses everything the one thing you cannot change the placement i know no one cares the one thing you cannot change the placement of is the plaza the resident services but i've seen online some people have been lucky enough to have it so when you get to your island it's placed already yeah you're there you're there and you get a choice of four so it's like and you could you're just gonna have to keep restarting if you want to find what i've seen on the internet which is people have miraculously had their resident services placed directly symmetrical in the middle I've seen it I've

seen it and I love it I watched an island tour and they had that it's so perfect of the the main hub where there's a guy playing the guitar outside what's his name KK Slider he's in the yeah yeah he's in the middle playing the guitar. And then it just goes off like a beautiful butterfly. Oh, it was stunning. Yeah. Well, that's lovely. Yeah. But even, so mine is quite beautiful.

It has, if I do say so myself, which I do. Yeah. Stunning entryway. And you come into kind of the plaza and the shops and everything. And like, you kind of come in. There's like, as you come in, there's a bit of a moat. There's kind of a river. And you come over the bridge to come in.

So it is beautiful. But I'm just, oh, perfectionist doesn't even cut it. It's just so infuriating to me that some people have this miraculous thing and I don't. Yeah, that is annoying. When I thought so hard, do you know what I mean? It's just like I thought really hard about this. It's like I thought Ika and Murama was the best, but you know. Yeah, but apparently it's just like i thought really hard about this it's like i thought ikarama was the best but you know yeah but apparently it's not and even though having one in the center doesn't necessarily mean that it's perfect i kind of i got a bit you know when you just get the itch it's kind of 2am

and it's like right i'm gonna move my bed around i need to redo this whole room which was me the other day my whole room is completely different yeah and then the next morning it's like oh fuck this yeah so that's why i keep getting the itch I keep getting the itch every day I'm like I could really just strip up all of these flowers and start again but I won't I think I'm gonna stick with it so anyway I get the commitment of marrying someone and wanting a divorce I completely understand what that's like totally um before we go any further with other people's um opinions and input I would love to just get some stuff from you I want to know like what are your thoughts on types like do you think

a type is a good idea do you think it exists do you think that's just a weird narrative that people tell themselves because you you are in a specific position where you are in a relationship and you can see everyone be like I just go with him because he's my type what are your thoughts on that I definitely feel like I'm on the outside looking in banging on the window guys but also like I'm I don't need to open the door it's fine I'll stay outside I'm fine out here um well yeah it's interesting because whenever I've been asked about types as well it's hard for me because personally how am I to know if I was with someone when I was 15 years old and I'm now 23 years old and I'm still with them in those formative years I have not been you know walking around with my binoculars on trying to spy and and figure out my type I've been very happy do you know what I mean

exactly so you haven't been identifying that's my type but have you I mean I don't want to be like what's what's your type because I don't think I necessarily believe in a type but have you noticed that because I think me and you actually have quite similar when we watch tv together i.e when we were watching game of thrones i think we were drawn to both the same people opposite game of thrones you're drawn to everyone but also goes without saying you can have them don't worry about me i will not get in your way between you and john snow it's fine and trust me in my mind I have him but there is no threat

but I think when we were watching tv when we all lived together a few of the others were kind of drawn to similar types and I could identify crossovers with people's types quite clearly and I think with the people that I fancied there'd be a lot of people that'd be like they're gross and then you would be like no I get it I think you would see I think you see a similar thing to me I think because for us it's um also about kind of this like kind of oh I don't even know I don't even I honestly don't even know I think it's a really strange amalgamation of things I think it's about someone being very like charming but not in a prince charming kind of way yeah I think it's about tearing up cute but I really do because I think the last thing I would ever want is a super preened posh prince charming no but I need you to be quite hilarious and endearing and charismatic in your own kind of

crazy way I need you to almost be a bit like um uncomfortable with yourself oh so yeah you lose me there uncomfortable with yourself so it goes I also think we had a bit of a thing the other day when you said I'm gonna out you here again no what is this oh well first of all Lin-Manuel Miranda can't relate I don't know how in a million years you could ever find him well I don't know I didn't see that coming that hit me I don't know but the second one um was the other day talking about that guy from Made in Chelsea when I saw him I literally thought that is Raps McGee no you have to put that in okay we're not editing that out this needs so

much context and i do not fancy anyone from maiden chelsea i think that show is but what's his name no no no i think his name is harry guys this is disgusting and i completely disagree with that i think he's not have you seen the film the riot club no i haven't and i never want to you would fuck you would fucking die for it it's so. And that is my worst case scenario, obviously. Well, that's kind of my, posh boys is my worst scenario. Worst case scenario. No, no, no, no, no.

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Discover our other variety packs for even more flavors like papaya passion fruit, blackberry lemon, and pineapple mango. This summer, bring a splash of extra to any occasion with Vizzy Hart Seltzer. Find Vizzy at a retailer near you. For more info, visit VizzyHartSeltzer. Find Busy at a retailer near you. For more info, visit busyheartseltzer.ca. Must be legal drinking age. One episode I watched with a friend of Made in Chelsea, she was actually watching it and I came in and I said, oh, okay, he's okay. Like, I don't mind his vibe. And now on million, not even second thoughts, million thoughts, I disagree disagree profusely profoundly with myself

but it's being held against him you fancy that rat boy you fancy that rat boy well i think also it's important to note that he does look an awful like someone that you were previously romantically entangled with does he oh don't you think he looks like no yeah he does a lot it's kind of um what's the rat's name roddy it's kind of roddy mixed with flynn rider oh i'm hooked well flynn rider is good but a rat's a rat well if you've seen my hinge bio not hinge bio you get i don't know many of you had maybe you have that would be a coincidence well have you not seen you help me make my hinge and no i know but wouldn't it be funny if you'd swiped for some of these people

who are listening oh yeah that's hilarious i saw florence given on tinder cute um cute we didn't match um but it wasn't a match but it wasn't a match i think about you florence and you listen and laugh but i one of my things on hinge is it's like my i'm weirdly attracted to and then i put the route from flushed away and everyone messaging me messages me saying Roddy or Rita and I say both. Thing is, it is a thing. I think the ratty look is definitely a look that people go for in different ways. But I think with you,

it's strange that you go for a bit of a ratty look because to me, ratty often is synonymous with posh. As in through a posh bloodline, they often have like the very British, like strong nose and like the lips and i don't go for rats i don't i'm actually quite shocked that you've said that he's quite similar to blah blah blah oh you don't see it i've never thought of that do you see it now that i say it though no i don't see that at all oh guys what i would love more than

anything is to have a picture of this guy from Made in Chelsea and the picture of the guy that Steffi was seeing on the story and you vote if they're similar or not. Imagine I expose you like that. Well, that guy I was seeing was the least photogenic person on the planet, I would say, so I don't think I would allow a picture. But, yeah, OK, so I think there's definitely an element of type there so for example people that go for ratty types let's say which i do not identify someone that goes for

ratty types that's horrific i think there's a difference between a dark and ruggedy ratty type to like a posh and prim ratty type a blonde rat are you the rat from flushed away with the pink eyes that's not hot also flushed away is probably my favorite film i really remember watching that in brighton were we had we been rained on were we soaking wet i don't know i don't remember this in my memory i was i was honestly flushed away i was drenchedrenched, soaking wet, watching Flushed Away. You know when it's like, God, we've all been absolutely soaked and we need to get our clothes are sticking to us. We need to be flushed down that toilet. Yeah, flushed away.

I love the bit, I love everything in that film, but I love the bit when he's like, would you like to take a dip in the jacuzzi? And then he's like, you don't think I know what a toilet is? I love that film so much I kind of just I think I just love Rita and I love Roddy and I just so why is that your type what is your type well I actually see a bit of Rita and Roddy in who I go yeah I do so ridiculous I think I I'm gonna identify as a Rita straight out I'm gonna do that cool gal a cool gal what's cool about her is when she I always thought this was so cool when she I know

what you're gonna say when they pull her trousers down she's wearing boys boxers oh my god I love that as a kid I saw that and thought that's me that's who I want to be she's the coolest person in the whole world slash I fancy her stunning stunning but Roddy is kind of that sense of guy I love his whole vibe kind of a bit of a dork yeah definitely get the dorky vibe but I don't I wouldn't go for a dork no I they have to be like some element of cool well my dream guy before this was a meme my dream guy is louis thoreau throw and throw through and through yeah he is my dream guy before he was cool i knew him before then just gonna put that out there i'm not kind of you and every other like 23 year old girl who says they knew him before no no, no, no, no, no. Just me. Just me and Louis. Me and Louis. But he's my dream guy,

along with John, along with a load of other people, along with Fred and George. We know this. So I don't... So I think there is a clear type there with all of those people. Yeah. So maybe I do believe in types,

but I think maybe that's a narrative you've told yourself. Well, do you think your type is dangerous for you? So, actually, I've had a kind of change of heart with this. So I voted saying, yes, I believe your type is dangerous for you so actually I've had a kind of change of heart with this so I voted saying yes I believe my type is dangerous for me but I actually completely disagree with that so what can change in 24 hours in the matter of a minute I clicked it and thought fucking you fucking liar you don't you want to seem cool but your type isn't dangerous

for you I think actually I have a really healthy relationship with my type and I think I do go for essentially like good people they're not I would never ever put myself in a position hopefully I have in my history I've never put myself in a position where it has been like hugely detrimental to me other than oh my god why won't they reply to my text quicker yeah because a lot of you guys are volunteering into your own demise yeah you actually actively go looking for people that are gonna emotionally fuck you up under the guise of a um type of like this is my type i just go for bad boys and it's like actually that's every time it's a choice it's not like this thing no it's like actually that's your ambivalent attachment style literally

that's your trauma yeah no so I actually completely disagree with my own opinion on my type being dangerous I actually think it's in the scheme of things largely healthy but obviously I would rather go for as nice nice nice guys as possible but it's sometimes not that hot yeah I think in theory all of us are like yeah give me a super nice guy in practice I think I don't want a super nice person I don't I'm not me a super nice guy in practice, I think. I don't want a super nice person. I don't, I'm not friends with super nice people. I don't... Uh, excuse me?

I want everyone to have a, to be multifaceted. I'm not like gonna hang out with someone that their personality is nice. You don't want to be fucking Jesus Christ. Yeah, no, I'm not fucking Gandhi. Not hot. You kind of want to be fucking jesus christ yeah no i'm not fucking gandhi you kind of want to fuck satan do i yes have you seen sabrina do i ever have you seen sabrina the chilling adventures of sabrina god lucifer hot so the one that i originally wanted to pull out was i just thought this was fascinating it was one of the first ones that we got and i screenshotted it straight away i only used to date people i had immediate chemistry with

never a good idea brackets for me oh never a good idea for me and i thought that's really i've never thought about that only dating people you have immediate chemistry with so i'm assuming it's like you go on one date, there's nothing, ditch, or kind of you're in school, you're in a lecture, you have immediate chemistry with someone, it's like you're hooked. Yeah, but now they're not going to do that. Yeah. Because they want it. Because I guess chemistry isn't everything. Well, I guess chemistry can grow as well. Because I definitely met people that there's been no chemistry with and then I've ended up liking them but how does that happen then so for how can you go from not having any chemistry with someone to suddenly having chemistry what do you see more of them what happened like as in I think

your perception changes yeah is it your perception that changes is it they show you more of them that you like like what is it sharing different experiences what builds chemistry it can be a huge mix of things but I've experienced and experienced it if my perception has changed with them like I they've been acting the exact same but suddenly suddenly like I see something I didn't see before I'm like oh okay I've had that or when they say something particularly amazing and you're like okay okay, well, now I'm hooked. Like, I didn't realise you were a socialist. Oh, wow, okay, I'm now your heart. That sort of thing.

Got you. It's like, oh, it just, something has to change. Yeah, it's kind of when you see... It can be a small change, but something just, you see a flicker and it's like, oh, wow, okay, I'm seeing you differently. So it can come from them or you. Yeah, exactly.

But I think something has to shift in your head. But I guess ultimately, yeah, I think ultimately it always does from them or you yeah exactly but i think something has to shift in your head but i guess ultimately yeah i think ultimately it always does come back to you because someone could be delivering everything that you want i.e being your perfect type um quote unquote but still and something's not sitting right something still is not you're not liking it what can you read it again or just say it again like they said i only used to date people i had immediate chemistry with never a good idea in capitals for me brackets so why is it never a good idea for so why are they thinking that's not a good idea because it's led to sort of a toxic dynamic where it's based in like lust is that what they're saying yeah i'm i'm kind of thinking it's

almost a bit too hot to handle it's a a bit like there's actually nothing of substance there. It's kind of the immediate thrill. There's nothing other than a physical connection. Yeah. Which I think is dangerous. I do actually think that's really dangerous because even though it's a huge part of a relationship, it might not be the best thing to like build an entire

like partnership with someone on. If what you want is like a a husband a boy a long-term boyfriend lust isn't the most like reliable of things to be building something yeah other than lust is a fickle friend harry honestly lust is a celebrity is a celebrity does doesn't work but you know or also building a relationship with someone out of um pure chemistry from the get-go almost I've seen when people are in relationships with people who are too similar to them and you start to clash like almost you're a perfect match but kind of you're a perfect match to be twins not perfect match to be a couple romantically involved have you heard people say oh my god they're just the boy version of me yes ex-girl

she the female version of me and it's like what is that narrative that you've built up it's the most interesting narrative because it's like why is that what you want like it's so um well it's narcissistic it's not self-indulgent but it's bordering on self-indulgent because it's like what whose perception of you because it's like your own perception of you and your perception of them and you think they're the male version of it's like you're wrong well i personally think it's just an absolute cringe bag thing to say anyway it's like oh like yeah fuck off like give it a rest like who did what are you trying to say here you just think you're great well i've had it when people have said it and i don't see it it's like kind of your like um it's like your bbm status yeah do you mean it's like it's like truly

lame it's like why is that on your story he's a boy version of me it's like oh like and what and what are you then it's like so you're looking at them and seeing all these good qualities and what you see that in yourself which is great but i just think it's more performative than anything that's what bugs me because it's like that's not actually real like you actually hate each other it's just a big old show it's completely based in ego and I've had it quite a lot where someone has said that not a lot but I've experienced it where someone has said that to me oh my god he's like the boy version of me and I've been like no he isn't like your perception of you or your perception of him is completely off if you think that you are the same person it's like you guys are deluded i'm sorry i also hate that romanticized

boy version of me as if there's a boy and girl but as if it's like what are we in like fucking 1950s there's a boy and girl version of everybody and you have to go and find one another get a fucking grip that makes me ill makes me absolutely ill it's really bad it's really bad also it's like it's it's just it's just so based in ego and not in like self-esteem ego which i fucking love it's based in a um narrative that you've sold yourself about yourself and then you found someone else and you've um projected that meaning onto them and you've been yourself about yourself and then you've found someone else and you've projected that meaning onto them and you'd be like wow perfect he's the boy version of me what i perceive myself to be and it's like you are completely wrong just engaging in a big world

performance is it do you say that to each other or do you say that to other people do you say do you lie in bed and go you're the boy version of me i absolutely guarantee you lie in bed and say you're the boy version of me he goes fuck off get out of my bed it's like that's not he's like who the fuck are you he's like yeah me and kind of all the other girls i'm texting like it's not good it's really not good god so if you've ever said that take a long look at the mirror and think what do you actually mean by that who do you identify as and who do you identify him as it just it's kind of a year nine thing it's not good it's just based in like um a perception of identity show it's based in performance performative relationship not uh not for us can we do another cue not for us yeah not even cues just just these are just great things to feed off oh i thought this was funny

nope self-sabotage baby really funny as in having a type of self-sabotage no as in do you date people that are good for you nope self-sabotage baby oh i love that um so shall we get into some of your red flags yes obviously i love it when i say your i mean your as in you who is listening right now you if your name is um sarah you imagine oh i thought this one was bad sorry i'm screeching this one just got me if they bring up their ex this also this just totally got me because it's 100% from experience and honestly I'm gutted for you they said if they bring up their ex right before you have sex smiley face fuck off that's bad that almost happened to me really recently what we actually didn't have sex on the last date that I went on. You have to put this in, by the way, so be careful with what you're saying.

Okay. On a date that I recently went on. That's a good way of phrasing it. Before quarantine. Before quarantine. Much before quarantine. Not that much before. Kind of 12 hours before.

Actually, like, an hour before quarantine. We were kind of in bed and she, I'm really getting too specific, this person was like, oh, my God, like, my ex, I really miss my ex, blah, blah, blah. And it's just like, this can't happen now, bye. Like, this can't happen. And you didn't have sex? No, no, no, no. Because it's just sort of like, why are you telling me?

It was kind of like, are you going to cry? Like, why are you telling me this? I think both of us have this, that people kind of want you to be their therapist a little bit and kind of give you all this information, but it's like, this can't happen now, sorry, bye. Well, it's not. It's a red flag.

To be honest, it's a giant red flag. It's a Union Jack in your face. Yes, honestly, that. the cross of saint george brexit yeah it fully is it's really bad i think that is so disrespectful it's awful because it's i feel like i have quite a thing with respect i think you do i think it's because you've been in a relationship for so long that you would imagine sort of you or Jack doing that I just want you to all be respected and it's just like how dare you yeah it makes me ill it just makes me sick that you guys are not being respected it's like how about I break up with Jack and we you and I whoever's

you and I Sarah become a couple and I'll respect you like you've never been respected before yeah it's really yeah I think you do have a thing with respect and I think it you like you've never been respected before yeah it's really yeah I think you do have a thing with respect and I think it's really good because it is really disrespectful to be in someone's bed and say I just want you I just want to talk to you a little bit about this person that I'm like still in love with or whatever and it's a bit like okay cool like it's like well how did we get into a place where you thought you could disrespect me well I don't think they view it as disrespectful I think they basically I think a lot of people have an absolute hard time communicating things to people and they want to communicate to people and they um almost like misunderstand intimacy

with like vulnerability and it just like comes out I think that's it they just thanks stunning round of applause for me so true that's it it's like it's a sensitive moment and people kind of want to spill their guts or fill their guts oh my god yeah and they spill their guts or fill their guts it's like a big old like giant cricket or something i've never seen it before but people kind of want to tell you things and it's like this isn't the moment and i think i'm quite good with shutting that shit down but i mean i'm not gonna have sex with you after you've spoken to me about your ex i'm sorry absolutely not it's like what there's like should i just start telling you i think my thing with respect as well is probably i know we're like oh it's really good but i also think

it's probably a lot about ego and the fact that i'm like sorry who are you? Mm-hmm. You think you can disrespect? Me. What? Me. In your dreams. Absolutely not. Yeah, it's crazy. Absolutely not. And then you dream of putting your penis in me. Absolutely not.

The audacity. The audacity. The audacity. There's no way. That's crazy. If someone starts talking to you about their ex and then tries to have sex with you, just say, why don't you just text your ex? Sorry. There's loads more like this. Oh, this one's crazy. If someone starts talking to you about their ex and then tries to have sex with you, just say, why don't you just text your ex? Sorry.

There's loads more like this. Oh, this one's interesting. When the man is too forceful when insisting to pay for the first date. I mean, a man who's forceful about anything, we're not a fan of. It's not sounding good. It's not sounding good. So what are your thoughts on that? What are your thoughts on men paying? I think forceful, the word forceful, when use of a man i'm running a mile i'm running honestly you lost me when you said when the man it's like that's my red flag big flag when it comes to men

um well what are your thoughts on this paying for the first day you're more of a dater than me i guess so what are your thoughts well i have many mixed thoughts on men paying so i always have been under the impression that what is the most empowering feminist thing to do is to split the bill because things are equal yeah then we saw we met we fucking went to go and see the stunning stunning slumflower who is a queen amongst queens like so amazing 100 goes without saying and she has this amazing argument which i think really just flipped my world around it's like okay so you actually went to the fucking toilet in this bit so you missed this fuck's sake but she said one line that really just hit me and she thinks men should pay and

she thinks that um men should sort of go above and beyond for women which sounds quite radical um but she was saying that when women can't even leave their house past midnight like walk their dogs at night because they might get raped and shit is not equal when we're getting paid less than men and things like that and just shit is not fucking equal um why on a date is it suddenly equal and you expect me to pay half the bill but how is that equal why is that where equality comes in when i can't leave my fucking house because you're gonna rape me i can't leave my house after 11 o'clock to walk my dog but yeah i have to pay the bill with you absolutely not yeah like the world is not set up as with us as equals therefore don't only have me to be equal when it benefits

you fascinating exactly so i do think that is a an incredible argument i actually do split the bill or pay i like to buy the first drink i like to you like to get in there and assert some sort of dominance get in there what drink do you get your drink etc i'm not actually that fussed about money i think it would just kill me a guy paying for me i think i'd i like to um i like to just have the power in every scenario i like to just be the one that's like okay i'm no sorry you don't need to buy me something i can afford myself thank you yeah i almost find i almost would find it patronizing and like they were treating me like a quote-unquote princess which fucking kills me like no i'm a

fucking king don't you dare i love it i do find it interesting as well that there is such a there's just such a narrative this is such a huge thing do you pay on a first date etc etc i think with the slumflower thing as well it's like is it that i don't know something about it i find really interesting that it's like they're not buying you a house like it's a drink they're buying you a drink it's seven quid yeah like kind of i don't know i think yeah i think it's like are you holding the power you only bought him a fucking like beer exactly do you know what i mean it's like i don't like the idea of being like indebted to someone like now okay so you bought all of my drinks okay so now you've spent what 30 quid on me it's a big night it's a good it's a successful day you've spent

30 yeah you're racking up the numbers in your mind yeah the relationship is as as this far is transactional exactly and now and best believe you're keeping tabs yeah and even if i'm not they are they're thinking well i've just spent 30 quid on you and now if you're not even going to reply to me after this okay you're a bitch and i think there is an element of like fairness in that an element a small smidgen of fairness no absolutely not to be indebted in no way indebted but i don't think on my conscience i could whether it's a man or a woman or any kind of date or romantic situation or friend's situation i situation meeting someone for something go out somewhere with someone then spend a significant amount of money on me and then ghost them i don't think i could do it no i think you were ready to risk it all and look what you did you risked it all you're bad that's that sounds like a you problem it's nothing to do

with me if you took me out and i love it in i love it in principle but in practice yeah i'm not phased you made a decision to do whatever you wanted for me. I didn't fucking ask you to take me here, there and everywhere. I know for a fact I wouldn't. Also, I don't date these assholes. Like, I don't date a fucking asshole that would... No, but I think in theory, in practice, in print, everything, blah, blah, blah. You want to do something for me.

That's on you. No, I love it. You made the decision to get yourself out of pocket you can stay that way that's none of my business i don't want to text you i'm not texting you no completely if i don't want to text you i'm not texting you but i think the second i get there and i realize i'm not texting this guy back and then he's like i want to buy this i want to buy this to be honest i wouldn't wouldn't don't really date people like that but it's not really what i go for the time everyone's constantly buying us things but i think i um actually i did rack up quite a bit on one of the last dates i went on and i never paid back there you go i just think yeah to be honest as you said you can't go out after

half 11 to walk your dog yeah now i'm gonna feel bad because you made a decision. I think that's true. To buy stuff for me. Absolutely not. I'm going to enjoy it. Well, we said this at our event. Whoever was at our event, you've heard this. Were you going to say I said that at my event? I said our event. I said this at our event.

I thought you were going to say, so we said this at my, at our event. I was going to be like, oh my God. I'm just like written out of the narrative it's like i'm cropped out of all the pictures i'm being mike wazowski'd once again no i said this hour event yeah it's not being cut i'm editing so i said this hour joint event that we had and I would never write you out of the narrative imagine I'm just on stage on my own it was a musical and it was just me I'm like but that thing back where it came from that I was raised in a very old school

feminist environment with kind of a lot of um sort of internalized misogyny being run through the narrative of empowerment which is quite complex and quite confusing way to then grow up and be like makeup could be potentially empowering what does feminist mean yeah quite confusing and i do think that dating i have always been like right i spit the bill i spit the bill i can fucking pay for myself but the slum flower some the slum flower thing is so particularly like world shifting because it's like wait i don't owe men anything i don't have to do that thing but it's like oh fuck okay works for me yeah completely i think it's about realizing that you've been raised your whole life to feel like you owe somebody something even if it isn't like you

feel like oh i need to pay i need to pay for whatever reason even if it's just about staying calm and like laughing it off when someone is sexually harassing you or staying throughout the whole of a day even though you don't want to just to be polite i feel like there's so much focus on women being civil and polite and well-mannered and like accommodating to men who are not worthy of them so if they want to pay loads of money for you yeah the things that we do we are willing to go have a one-night stand with someone where we are not going to have an orgasm and they are going to have an orgasm and what we would expect to pay half for that no no oh my god what was i thinking the other day this is what i was thinking actually in prep for this

sorry my chair is like really squeaks i've actually got what's his name roddy in here squeaking away um i was really thinking when i was thinking about this podcast and where the conversation may or may not go is that so many women volunteer as i say volunteer themselves to their own demise go looking actively seek out men who are trash scrappy dappy dudes yeah and it's so often um brushed under the guise of such good sex or he's so hot or the nice guys aren't hot etc etc it's like what you're telling me the sex is actually good you're lying you're fucking lying to me i know for a fact he's not good in bed so give it a rest you're fucking lying you're lying to me and you're lying to yourself literally

literally well there's the whole thing like toxic sex is so good but it's like yeah well we've all had toxic sex and no it's fucking not just you guys are not gonna cope when you actually find someone who actually respects you and likes you a little bit you will not cope mind blown you will not be able to handle it honestly i can't wait that's the thing it's like okay so why toxic sex is so good is because you're starved of attention from that person and they give you a bit of something and you're like oh my god this is amazing it's like yeah because they haven't told you they fucking like you in months because they finally looked at you in the eye yeah literally because they haven't replied to you for two weeks this is the first time you've seen them so it feels incredible because you're like oh my god there's like some attention they really must

like me and it's validating all of those urges on you but it's like actually no all that's happening right now is you're being wanked into i'm sorry yeah you were dying of thirst and you've had some like pond water and the whole time you were convinced it was like fucking um vos algae ridden pond water yeah you thought it was fiji water no no no honey it wasn't it's got a frog in it it's got frogs you're drinking tadpoles okay i think we should talk about this because it's a huge i think generational trend oh love it um and also was a trend in the responses so i just think we're gonna have loads to say saying a lot along the lines of this person said saying we can hang out

but not be in a committed relationship why is our generation so upset about titles and commitment I completely agree and as someone that's upset by titles, I completely agree. Because I think titles can be a bit overwhelming. I think it comes from being the offspring. I think it comes from being the children of a generation like our parents that so freely dip out of relationships and divorce. I feel like with our, maybe this is just my anthropology

history lens but i think it's valid oh i'm sure it is i think the generation of our parents um well not even i think i know that the generation of our parents as in people i mean my mom was born in 1971 that gives you guys some context of their ages i'm sure you guys are all within the same generational range as us mostly our parents generation was within the first generation that really took divorce to a much more kind of um it was just so frivolous yeah took it to the next level just insanely frivolous um and marriage becoming like um not just like a sort of church institution, but like a moneymaker, like, yeah, a thing of the under capitalism now. Yeah. Which fucks everything.

So I think, and then I think as the children of that, you get a lot of ideas from a very young age about what you would want from a relationship, what titles do to a relationship, what separation does to a relationship what separation does to a relationship and I think people go into things knowing necessarily that they're not going to work and it's almost that safety net of well if we don't call it anything we can't break up yeah or I don't owe you anything if we don't give it a name if we don't start it it could never end oh I don't have to owe you it's like I don't owe you um a big sit down conversation of why I'm ending this and blah blah I can just dip out I can just go stupid it's fine it's like there's so much if you keep things under a certain level yeah and throw social media into that and you've got yourself a hot mess a hot pot of mess because it's so yeah it's just so easy to disappear. Yeah. And I think that on one hand is very nice

and on one hand is very horrific. Like I do really enjoy the casualness of relationships because I do feel that that is way more in our biology as like evolved animals. I don't necessarily, even though I am quite a monogamous person, I don't necessarily think that is the most like healthy it's not even necessarily the most healthy way that we have evolved to live as like

with one partner it's not the only way to live maybe I don't know I don't really know it's very complex so I do think there is there are good elements to the casualness because I think it's almost more I think it's fulfilling for a certain type of person to have that freedom and, like, you're in a way so liberated. It's just that thing that we... But it also enables... It enables fuckboy culture and, unfortunately, as things are, it's girls that are being fucked over by this. Who would have guessed in patriarchal society?

It's our favourite keyword, performative empowerment. Oh, my God. You're performing liberation by dating around so freely and having quite amazing sex with guys that you're crying when they don't text you you're actually crying every night every time you get drunk you're crying can you tell me why because you want him to say do you want to be my girlfriend which is the main problem with all of this i think so many people are saying oh yeah i love um being able to sleep around blah blah but it's like but do you actually or are you just waiting for him to ask you out which one is it because yeah and you've been so deprived of affection

and intimacy and the only way you can get it is by finding someone on a friday night to quickly sleep with and then you get a little bit obsessed with them for a weekend that's horrific oh my god shrugs this is why i had to change my answer because it's this is, but this is exactly why I had to change my answer. Because I was like, yeah, okay, I go for kind of a more dangerous type, I would say. And then I was like, wait, no, because I would never engage in these behaviours that people have been messaging in. When I started to see people's answers, I was like. No, there's a line.

No, mine's healthy compared to this. This is incredibly, a lot of you are engaging in quite heavily damaging behaviours. Because sleeping around is not inherently empowering no or inherently dangerous no i don't know when that narrative came around though that it's like oh my god like um i'm so liberated in my sexual prowess yeah but it's like the thing is you do care because you're crying about it so it's you're not liberated by this you're actually oppressed by this yeah or you do care because you're numb inside and it's allowing men to fuck you over and you're just they're not texting you back for weeks on end and you're going okay but i kind of like him like maybe i should text him now

and trust me i've been there but it is not it's just it's not something we can be bringing into like our expectations of the next relationship it's it's really crazy to like think that that is the blueprint and not try and break that if someone is not texting you don't text them or text them and say hi why are you not texting me don't when they reply being like hey sorry i've been a bit busy be like it's okay don't worry about it so how are you it's like you just literally said that's fine fuck me over again yeah you set you set the standard. We really do. And the standard we're setting is very low. Oh, the bar is so low.

Need I say it again? Scrappy, dappy, do. Awful. Well, I think all of our podcasts are going to end on that note. Men are scrappy, dappy dudes. The bar is so low. The end.

So pick the fucking bar off the floor and hold it up above your head. I don't fucking know. Just, I think the thing is, it's like with types and red flags and all this stuff, it's like you, I don't think people think that it's like this weird thing that's innate. It's like, I don't know why I have this type. It's like, no, you get to choose your type. You get to choose that.

Yeah, try and have a little bit of autonomy here. Yeah, it's not pre-programmed. Your Sims autonomy slider whack that straight up right now you're operating with zero free will and you're sitting around looking up going my shoe no it's also waiting for your owner to come and take care of you wow this is on you no yeah you get to choose your type like if you keep going oh my god i just have this type i keep going for that fuck boys you keep fucking me over you don't actually have to like you are the one swiping for these people you're the one going on these dates you're the one literally replying shit after they've not texted

you and they treated you like shit they've just spoken to you about your ex for an hour their ex for an hour and then you're having sex with them and sucking their dick oh gutting gutting gutting sorry that i'm not sympathetic when in 40 years time you're messaging in saying hi i'm thinking my husband's not the right one for me i'm gonna divorce him no we saw this coming from a mile away that's the thing I think this is so good because I think as I say about our parents generation they never would have been having these conversations ever ever just couldn't have happened no so I think the fact that not just between us the fact that we're having this conversation is so great is revolutionary I mean the fact that so many of you listening and messaging etc etc are so

self-aware like we're reading out the kind of like tricky ones or the ones that are like funny and like personable but so many of you are talking about like working on yourselves etc and like being so much firmer with your boundaries yeah i think we're on the on the up and we're trying to we're going to try and reply to as many as we can we do try and reply to as many as we can but um oh listen i've got things to do i've got i've got um dates to be i've got people to be scamming honestly we've got many businesses on the go with we're trying to start a porn industry a porn company as well we can't um i'm not fucking around here anyone who wants to um invest in our new porn company and help us i thought you were gonna say anyone that wants to act in our porn anything if we have

any porn um porn actors listening we would be really appreciative if you haven't listened to our porn episode i would recommend it ridiculous um so that's it we've got our fingers on a lot of pies we're the podcast just one and it sounds like you guys do too yeah honestly so don't text him back if he's fucking you over if he talks about his ex just say sorry what um so sorry i didn't quite hear that i think it's funny i thought you were talking about your ex haha sorry i thought you just spent the last half an hour talking about your ex is that right that would be a ridiculous thing to do before we have sex i'm glad you didn't actually do that that is crazy but i've enjoyed this combo yeah i've loved it as usual so thank you everyone for listening yeah thank you guys so like i'm not even Thank you. From the bottom of our hearts.

Honestly, from the bottom of our deep, dark, broken hearts. Thank you. Honestly, deep, dark, dark, dark, dark and shattered. So, also, if you would like to go over to Apple and leave us a review, and I'm not fucking around when I say this, go over to Apple and leave us a review so more people can find this. I'm begging you. Honestly, I'm on my knees. I'm begging you honestly i'm on my knees

i'm begging you please louise you've got the keys to my heart that's from tracy beaker if anyone knows that reference um thank you guys so so much for listening genuinely and we really hope you enjoyed this episode as usual if you did enjoy it please tell us why tell us what you liked about it tell us things that you found interesting tell us some personal stories that we may have triggered in your mind and memories and tell your boyfriend to stop talking about your boyfriend he's dumped single yeah and tell your husband you're leaving him after 30 years of happy marriage thanks guys have fun i'll leave you on that note thanks guys good luck bye