Goes Without Saying - romanticising loneliness & 'solo dates': anxiety to aesthetic pipeline

Episode Date: August 21, 2022

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good conversation about the messaging around independence and spending time alone romanticizing your time alone being vulnerable with other people and the pressures that we put on ourselves and if there's any way in hell that we can get away from those pressures um i think this is a good ep if you just want a general chit chat i think there are some actually you know what i'll say i think there are some good insights in here but i also think the sentiment is generally quite positive and uplifting so that's what you're in the mood then keep on listening high energy okay just nice easy just a nice clean game from all of you very relaxed madam hooch is in here how would you describe your mood today actually in a word i woke up oh my god it was not weird but like i woke up being like i'm in a good mood and then i was doing my eyeliner and

you know when you just do it wrong like I'd done them quite well and I was like I'm gonna go over it again because just to make it stronger and I fucked it up and it went on my eyelid and I was like and I was like oh you're not in a good mood because that shouldn't annoy you let's know you're on the edge oh wow okay yeah but that was a long time ago now. I'm feeling good. You've recovered. But I had to notice like, okay, so you're not feeling as good as you thought you were. You're kind of one smudge of eyeliner and you're ready to like punch your mirror. So calm down.

Yeah, I mean, fair enough. Honestly. Honestly, so fair enough. How's your mood? I feel like we are, I don't know if, we're not necessarily going to say anything crazy here, but we did have a really exciting day yesterday that could all go to shit at any moment, but we had such an exciting day,

exciting interaction. Um, we just feel very like fragile at the moment. I've passed. I'm always fragile, but yeah, I just feel like, um,

almost like a burst into song at the gust of wind, but then I also could smash a mirror at the gust of wind as well so fuck knows what the mood is but i think that's the thing we've got it all to play for let's see how it plays out anything could happen anything could happen okay well this will be a nice combo i think just casual solo dates vibes being independent quote unquote independent whatever that means just enjoying our own company um and maybe even the pressure that there is to enjoy your own company yeah blah blah blah i feel like it's one of those things that just ebbs and flows you know i don't think it's so much about i'm good in

my own company the end you know i think one day you might be the next day you might be upset about your eyeliner and you should have could have done with someone around to bring you back down to reality that sort of thing yeah i don't know how i feel about like solo dates as a term i don't necessarily love and i know it's part of like the romanticize your life discourse it comes under the umbrella of romanticize your life, I feel. Yeah. But there's something about... It's giving girl boss.

It's giving girl boss, which we know how people... We love. How I feel about, I definitely don't love as a term, even though I am drinking out of a mug right now, which Wynne got me. Ironically, I'll say this has girl boss on it. It's always ironic, but it's an ironic love still of course it's such a love but i don't know how much i love putting like you're spending time

alone almost that is what it is spending time on your own enjoying your time alone independence i don't know how i feel about putting this thing of like it's a date it's almost like um i don't know how I feel about putting this thing of like, it's a date. It's almost like, I don't know if I find it a feminist term. I don't know if I think that there are men walking around, going to the shops and being like, I'm going on a date on my own. It's like your time on your own doesn't have to be romantic. Your time on your own doesn't have to come under this term of like to spend time on my by myself it has to be as a date i don't know if i love it as a term but i'm here for the practice of spending time on your own i just don't know if i'd ever be able to like sincerely use the term

so i'm going on a solo date i'm taking myself on a date to the cinema it's like can i not just go to the cinema on my own it's so true why does it have to be why does it have to be um like social media friendly well exactly that's what i was gonna say there's also the element to it of like is it about a solo date where you're spending time with yourself getting to know yourself just enjoying your own company or is it about doing something that looks good in photos yeah on your own and almost doing it once to be like i'm going on a solo date and i'm gonna write a blog on it my solo date spending time by yourself is so important which is even though i did a silly voice it is um and then being like now i've got to document it post it got a great photo of me at the beach solo date um i don't know if i like that because

well for obvious fucking reasons it's just a bit um fake it's got a fakeness to it i also do however like the kind of way that you can differentiate between spending time on your own or just being alone and going about your day to almost like the intention required exactly for calling something a solo date is like oh well you're gonna be lighting some candles now you're putting the effort in like yeah you're dressed up to the nines yeah i do also see how that is like oh you could have just been on your own but instead you turned it into a solo date which is quite amazing and i don't give a shit if the men aren't doing it so be it but i do think maybe that's an important thing that also women are going on dates with themselves it's almost like oh well you

couldn't there's no one better to go on a date with surely do you know what i mean i'm loving that but that's a weird thing of like for a woman to spend time on her own, it needs to have like a romantic lens over it of like, I'm falling in love with myself. I'm treating myself like I'm on a date as I should, honey. It's almost just a bit like, wait, can we do that without this? But it also could be fine.

Yeah, of course, of course. But I also love it if it's necessary. I love it if that's the door to you for spending time on your own. It's almost like the vehicle that we use to get to a place of self-acceptance the vehicle might be a honda jazz for example and that's my vehicle of choice have i told you about the milk have i told you about the milk yeah the spilt milk all over the honda jazz oh well no it's not that interesting it's just i spilt milk all over the Honda Jazz well no it's not that interesting it's just I spilt milk all over not my milk dairy milk my brother's milk oh jesus not dairy milk the chocolate a pint of of like

blue top I don't know what the blue top is I think it's full milk I've no idea um milk milk semi-skimmed more than a pint actually two pints of the big big big he's a thirsty milk boy god you spilt the whole thing and i spilt the whole thing all over the honda jazz oh jesus it was awful and as my vegan self i was like this is disgusting this is so disgusting i had to pull over and i put baking soda all over it because i thought that would bring it out apparently according to google and it has got the smell out but there are stains there are milk stains all over it oh really all over the two front seats because i'm an idiot it was in the passenger seat

and i pulled it over the driver's seat to get out what an idiot i know what like upside down you like pulled it from the bottom yeah no i get you and also it happened in like my hometown so if anyone in my hometown walked past the civic hall on that day you would have seen me crying and crying being literally crying over spilled milk i was not crying when it happened but then i was like how the fuck do i get this milk out of the car yeah and then some tears were shed that's quite a bad crier when you're crying out of frustration and you're getting a bit hot yeah no it's too much for me it was like it was a boiling hot day in a car park i hadn't paid for parking yet there's milk

all over the car and then there's a split plastic bag with milk oozing out of it onto the pavement what did you do in the bag as well it was a nightmare oh god all for my brother he did was not appreciative and what happened he hadn't put the lid on right so i was angry at him as well why was the lid off he'd been drinking from it he's probably guzzling out of the bottle put it back in the fridge then my mom was like can you take this to him i put it in a bag didn't think twice put it in the honda jazz started driving lo and behold don't blame yourself it's fine oh i didn't i blamed him i blamed a combination of him and her yeah fair enough fair enough and they fully blamed me and that's where the tears started

you made it out alive yeah but the car didn't no the honda jazz is still in bits tainted forever but anyway sorry i derailed it you cried over spilt milk in the honda jazz the vehicles that we use to get ourselves to good places it's kind of the like body positivity versus body neutrality things i'm sure there's loads of things like it that we can put this lens of of yep it's a nice idea whatever it takes to get us to the right place sure but then also do we have to take it to the max of like i love myself now or this is so romantic now can it not just be a simple thing of it is what it is yeah i love that maybe that's the crux i think that is the crux the words right out of my mouth it's the crux because that is that's i think my only issue with the term of like let's

not complicate something that should be natural yeah it shouldn't be natural for women to have to spend time on their own to kind of love themselves or they have to light candles about going to the cinema on my own well i can't think of anything else other than the cinema but that would be my day of choice yeah i'm gonna go to the park and read why has it got to be that intentional to show yourself that you love yourself i think that's my only i don't love but i think i agree with you i completely agree but then i also think it is complicated where we're at at the moment spending time on your own can be actually just inherently complicated like in this weird world that we've created 100 i think i just

really resent that so therefore i resent the term but i actually love the fact i completely agree that if it can be the honda jazz that gets you to self-love yeah sure nice okay um how are you spending time on your own at the moment oh i'm going to the park and reading you saying that was like oh god those were dates were they should have just a bit more a bit of an effort should have made a bit of effort is there anything that you wouldn't like to do on your own um i think i would still really struggle to sit in a restaurant and eat on my own yeah yeah fair enough i think i'd really struggle with that because where i work now so work in a vegan restaurant oh yeah if you dare it's in london if you dare if you dare find me um just google world's most stunning vegan restaurant you might find it they probably will to be honest um and there are people that go like the most stunning girls that go and

in peak times like on weekends and stuff and they sit and they order all this delicious food and they sit there with either their dog or on their own and they eat and there are all these people around them chatting chatting chatting having like great times their friends on dates whatever and they'll sit there and they'll eat a fucking three course dinner on their own and i just think that is fucking incredible i would feel so aware of myself if i was doing that and i think it's so amazing to do that i agree you know what stops me from doing that more than even just being aware of myself and i maybe this is why the solo date aspect is quite good or this is like a win this is a little like tally under the pros um like table for solo dates is that i

think i would struggle to like put an effort in in that way and spend money on myself on a meal on my own yeah like i almost feel like if i'm on my own whatever and i'm hungry the chances of me actually like to be honest treating myself to a nice luxurious even just a casual like meal out in a restaurant are very very isn't do you want to there's a zero percent chance of me doing that because i'll just be like just fucking go we have toaster like that's all like the mum in the car of like driving past mcdonald's like sorry like we have chips at home like get a grip yeah like i don't have yeah and i don't have enough respect for myself to almost be like take the time you're worth the money like

i don't value myself in that way i agree like the guilt i would feel from even buying like a donut and a coffee i've spent about seven quid and i'm wrecked with guilt for the whole day yeah so i don't think i could justify being like you're gonna spend maybe upwards of 20 pounds here on yourself that would feel um crazy but i also think it's it's not so much the money for me like that is a huge reason why it's like god i think i would i can't afford it so lavish one i can't afford it yeah it's like if you do this weird solo date on your own then you can't go out with your friends tomorrow night yeah exactly my friends would be a weird decision you went on all those solo dates

and now you can't pay your rent interesting it's like you need to pay the water bill but i went on a solo date i've been solo dating i took myself to pizza express if you saw them you'd pay money i just value myself in a way but like i think it's less than money and more i think i would find that I'd find it really hard to relax. I think I'd feel like everyone was looking at me, even if they fucking weren't. And I think that's why if I was to do anything that's a solo date, and trust me, I do not brand it as a solo date. I like going to the cinema on my own.

I feel like that is one of those things where I do definitely feel completely projected on from myself and also from society i may say when you're walking in buying your ticket and all of this stuff i definitely do feel a little bit of like okay you're going to the cinema on your own you're doing the thing that everyone talks about you're doing the thing here we go you might be romanticizing romanticizing your life as we speak i think it's happening yeah but then you then you get in there and you're in a dark room and it's fine no one's then you then you get in there and you're in a dark room and it's fine no one's looking at you you don't feel observed you're you're fully in it whereas i think going to a restaurant or something you're very much on show you're eating where are

you looking yeah i find that a bit i would i would be a bit stressed about it the generation of girls declaring like i just hate eating in front of people or whatever and this weird thing that we all oh this weird thing that everyone put on never like just this weird horrible societal issue that i feel like a restaurant is kind of the hell hell of that yeah a little bit also great it's just one of the epitome of like what are you gonna get like what is i don't know do you get wine like i think you do i think if you're on a date with yourself that's the thing but it's always like i would just be like i'm not spending money on what you're joking like no but if i was with you if i'm with anyone else it's like let's get wine like i'll

take the lot oh 100 but if it's just for me I'm like fuck like let me quickly go home like I'm not doing this ACAST powers the world's best podcasts here's a show that we recommend nature I've got a gay rooster named Francois is so gay these rams are gay i'm studying gay animals does that mean i'm gay so why don't more people know this i'm owen ever i'm lane caplan levinson

and this is a field guide to gay animals a podcast about queerness in the natural world. The animal kingdom is queer and we are a part. Find a field guide to gay animals on Spotify, Apple. Or wherever you get your podcasts. ACAST helps creators launch, grow and monetize their podcasts everywhere. ACAST.com It's weird, isn't it what what would you say you do that's like a solo day if you were to put that on or like spending time on your own um like yeah interesting well i do love playing animal crossing so fucking true i do love playing animal crossing these days

um which i don't know if i would play animal crossing on a date but it's not what would you do on a date is it but it's almost like what's in an intentional way that you make time for something you love or to show your dodo code meet me at your apple what's your turnip prices today which we have done basically what we did was not gonna make much sense but we like if you're not familiar with it and even if you are familiar with it it just sounds insane but we one of us bought turnips yeah god knows how much money we spent on the turnips so much so much like all of it we emptied out our bank essentially and then the other person was time traveling to find a good turnip price day and then the other person would visit that island then i think we split the profits we honestly and i was i remember because

i was the turnip carrier so i was running back and forth from my island to your island getting a pain scurrying island to island emptying my pockets of turnips getting more turnips going back going into the bank going to that little atm crashing it all in going back oh good times we really were though we're like it was quite extreme yeah anyway good times. But yeah, no, I do like that feels quite intentional because I'm like, I'm going to sit down and play Animal Crossing.

The other day it was so, I can't even remember what time, it was just like in the morning and I came into the living room with my dog and it was raining, which was really nice. Really needed some rain. Oh my God. And I had the window wide open. I could hear the rain

and I was just sat with a blanket and my dog like wrapped around me playing animal crossing reading and it was just the nice like kind of everyone was still sleeping in the world no one else had woken up and it was just really nice and i think it's almost just like even if you didn't intend like that's not even something that you can plan i'm gonna make it rain and i'll open the window and i'll listen to the rain and blah blah even if it is just you end up spending time on your own and blah blah blah when you take a second to almost even if you weren't intentional to begin with just having the appreciation for the moment that you're

in is quite nice i get that so much that literally is perfect because that that's it there doesn't need to be this kind of and now i'm getting dressed for my day and now i'm buying my ticket for my day and now i'm going to the cinema wherever you're going to your day i think it's about finding those moments where it's and i and i do think there's 100 a place for that but i also think that puts a lot of pressure on you it's like it does work fucking nine till five what you got sass in a sunday you're seeing your friends on one day you want to do something else oh shit i've got squeezing time to have a solo date myself right okay sorry i can't come on my date nothing will make you hate the internet faster than

working a nine to five having all these plans and then thinking oh now i need to schedule in a solo date solo date yeah it's ridiculous i just say the best thing ever yeah it's so fucking nice it's what this is the weird thing it's like there's i hate it and i love it at the same time goes without saying i do love the idea of just being like essentially a normal thing is happening you're sitting on your sofa it's raining and it's almost about like noticing like tuning in to the like the beauty of the moment you could easily have just played right played fucking darting around your town talking to Tom Nook yeah throughout that but then it's something about being like

actually this moment right now is quite beautiful yeah yeah 100% I really love that and I think if a solo date allows you to get more of that time more of that like yeah that kind of mindset in your life then i love it but i don't think it is necessary i think actually do all the things that you want to do on your own you know what i think the problem is with a lot of these like concepts and like just the internet rhetoric of all of these little buzzwords that get thrown around and blah blah blah with the best intentions always the vehicle of i mean it's either trying to sell you something or you can also look at it as like okay it's a vehicle for getting myself closer

to where i want to be liking myself more enjoying my life more blah blah blah all that shit what i think always ends up being a bit weird and i think it's just the nature of any conversation really and i guess especially conversations that are then immortalized on the internet if you look at it through the lens of god this is so out of touch it becomes so hard to ignore how ridiculous it is yeah i do then also think looking at for example goes without saying podcast where they've got an episode titled self-care colon love yourself girl bestie love you or whatever whatever i've decided it would be some random shit looking at that through the lens of everything's so out of touch blah blah is a bit dumb i would say a little bit reductive but i do also think i i know for me and i know for you as well sephi

like the way that we go about our daily lives is that a lot of things are completely not accessible to us a lot of the self-love stuff just is not easily implemented in our lives um and i think speaking about like okay i'm out and about in public and i'm very aware of myself or oh my god i'm doing this solo date thing and i feel like an idiot i feel like everyone's looking at me oh my god i'm gonna have a panic attack i'm gonna die blah blah blah i am gonna bring in the mental health angle and say that i think it is really inaccessible for a lot of people where we're in this kind of this like millionth pandemic that we've got going on on the long list of pandemics that we've got one of them being mental health crisis and social anxiety and

depression all of these things to talk about solo dates does feel ridiculous um and i wonder if there's a way that we can like if you're on a really shit day and you're having a crisis as i know you do and as you know i do what does that look like when you're implementing like these kind of buzzword mindfulness practices? Are there some that genuinely help? And are there some that are just too like frustrating and too much pressure and just too unbearable and out of touch to stomach in those moments? Yeah, I don't know. Because it's a weird blend between them, I feel like. It's a weird kind of dichotomy of like mindfulness. helps exercising helps water drink your water have you tried turning it off and on

again like yes all of these things help but also when you're coming from a certain place and you're viewing it from that space it feels really fucking ridiculous and annoying i agree i think when i'm actually bad when i'm actually actually bad like I had a bad breakdown for the first time I've had in a long time actually like a bad like I think you even spoke about it on the podcast have I I think so it was really bad I haven't had one in a while usually I feel like I'm constantly fighting just body dysmorphia kind of feeling just like slightly shit most days about it but just kind of paddling on above the surface and might have a few little moments blah blah blah but i had a big kind of like breakdown that went on for like three hours and i completely believed that my body was

this huge issue and all of these things i used to i mean i do live in in that so much but i was fully fully like um this is so embarrassing perspective was disaster every bit of perspective was lost and the only thing that got me out of it was my housemate being like we've got we wear this get outside we're going for a walk sort of thing and she was so good um but i do think i was shocked in that moment that i couldn't access any of the shit like i couldn't access um just breathe just focus on your breathing or like just have a glass of water or let's go and make a cup of tea to me in that moment it was you need to do something about your body like this is not

acceptable and I couldn't break through it and usually I can kind of break through to a level of like let's zoom out affirmations your therapist made you put on your wall your body does not need to change that wasn't fucking hitting was not fucking hitting um and i think those things for me only hit when i'm at a neutral spot like if i start my day and the first thing i go to is like okay let's fucking get your yoga mat out let's do yoga let's do a meditation straight away you they can hit you and they can impact your day but when it's got to a point that you haven't done any of those things you haven't had a glass of water or you haven't fucking um even

like noticed that you're alive that day do you ever have that where you like haven't even um i mean i have it all the time almost like i haven't even felt the feeling of like i'm alive i don't know if that makes sense i haven't even realized that i have i'm here the ability to make decisions it's like oh hello i'm alive i'm in the world this is my life like that's yeah i sometimes think it's just like yeah that's fair to do realize you only get one of these amazing yeah amazing thing to do and it's almost or just like weird weird thing that does help me as things is to think you're going to die everyone you love is going to die it's amazing you're not dead yeah or like you're on a tiny

tiny rock like all of these things that i love to think about mental no i think that makes perfect sense might look different for you listening it might be a different that might make you feel worse it's also a weird thing yeah but I think that makes a lot of people feel better I've actually saved a photo on my laptop which is one of my things I always go back to now um a few weeks ago there was a photo taken from space it's absolutely incredible and NASA fucking released it it's the most incredible photo of space I've ever seen in my life and I set it as my desktop background on my laptop and i always go and look at it because it honestly fills me with such giving women instead huh i said it's giving women in stem oh that's so girl boss women in stem that knows nothing they can't even do like her five times table i can do that maybe

i can't do my six um and i'm not even gonna laugh because i know it's true it's like sometimes if i'm not too bad i can look at this photo and be like oh my god this is insane but if i was feeling really bad a fucking picture of space isn't gonna touch me yeah or someone saying solo date yourself is gonna be fucking annoying and silly yeah shut the fuck out uh-huh yeah how do i get out of bed goes without saying yeah but then i do think the terms serve a purpose like they serve a purpose to be like focus on your breathing let's do this shit or like all of the fucking shit we've invented does serve a purpose but it serves a purpose to someone that isn't on the fucking edge you know what it is i think as well it's like

look we can critique the vehicle all all we want we can critique the vehicle all we want but some people for example can't drive some people don't like that car some people need to adjust the steering wheel and push it back and blah blah just because the car isn't right for you there we go just because the car isn't right for you doesn't mean the vehicle is totally redundant like there's always love do you know what i mean like yeah sometimes like yes we can all critique all of the discourses about like oh body positivity body neutrality i don't know why that's the one that really comes to mind but there are tons of them well because that one has something that it doesn't hit anymore i think think, I think that one for me, like body positivity, body neutrality, for me, it's

like, you've got to take me back five years ago for that to touch the sides now. I've heard those terms so much. It's almost when you say the word milk, milk, milk, milk, milk, it's like, it sounds weird on milk. It's kind of body positivity means nothing to you anymore yeah like it's just almost like because also i've heard so much bullshit come out under the lens of body positivity including the very podcast itself oh 100 but like there's also a time and a place for it in the sense that sometimes you're gonna come like it's almost like i don't know like i was having this conversation

i've had i might have even said this to you and i might have said it to you on the podcast which would be a disaster so tell me if i'm just going on and on and on but i was having the conversation and i definitely have touched on this about like ah mental health awareness like everybody struggles and blah blah blah like normalize like managing your mental health and things like that so much of that discourse has been like detrimental to me but also i can totally see that the vehicle is there with the ideally ideally it's moving people in the right direction i might be fucking emergency stopping you turning all over the place but i can't there's only so much i can

hold that vehicle accountable because mental health awareness does matter and yes we should normalize mental health issues just because i've taken it in the wrong way and whatever and blah blah blah and there are ways that's been detrimental to me and just because there are ways that all of these slogans and all of these things might be detrimental to you doesn't mean that they're wholly bad i'm sure that goes without saying but i just let's talk about that because also that's the thing with like for example being like body positivity doesn't touch the sides it doesn't touch my side exactly like it's not about yeah it is it is a redundant term someone might hear it for the most revolutionary times and it's done so much like the fact that is a term is incredible there was not a term for that fucking 15 years ago especially especially not in the mainstream there was not it was pure we

were all living in body negativity the fact that is body positivity what yeah um but it also is one of those things that yeah it's been used and used and used to the point where now it's like it has a million and one different meanings and it's like it's not functioning the way that you want it to but it's true that someone could like a 15 year old could see it for the first time tomorrow and it totally changes the direction of their thoughts yeah completely that is everything yeah okay somebody said i don't know which angle i want to go with there are a few here that i could do but i'll just go with this one that solo dates that the whole discourse can be harmful when it's used to because of a fear of creating meaningful

connection so basically like any emphasis of like independence and your own company and all of those things is great but it can be harmful when you're using it to kind of conceal the fact that you're actually really uncomfortable with being vulnerable with other people and that's really interesting have you ever thought of that before because i've never thought of that i think we might have even spoken about it on this very podcast okay that's just my memory fading me then no but i agree with you a lot i mean we definitely haven't phrased it like that it's a beautiful way of putting it but kind of the the idea of being like kind of um over emphasizing the need for independence because of a fear of relying on others or having a vulnerability with other people like a shared do you know what i mean definitely i just think that's really interesting to be like

in the context of solo dates like to be like oh I'm going on these solo dates I'm trying to build up my own um relationship with myself blah blah blah as a thing to be like because deep down I'm scared to go on an actual date like I'm scared to spend time with my friends I'm scared to um ask this person out or whatever it is i find that really interesting i think that's a real thing i think for some people it's like i'd rather be on my own than put myself out there with others and even if they maybe find being on their own uncomfortable it's still sometimes it still might be easier than putting themselves out there which i think is hashtag relatable

content about like the fear of rejection and all that shit yeah what would that look like then so someone would be is it i'm struggling to view it in terms of like a solo like the solo date thing so like i completely see that it's like okay so i'm gonna um build up a great kind of life on my own an independent life so that i don't so i'm kind of disguising the fact even myself that i'm scared to get a relationship i'm scared to um i think it's just even about this kind of like new way vibe of i'm an independent woman I love my own company I don't need anyone I definitely don't need a man blah blah blah sometimes can mask over deeper issues of why are you scared to be vulnerable like do you know what I mean and I think it's not even about like oh I'm gonna go on all

these solo dates with myself I think it can just be I've always been someone who pushes people away I'm very independent I love my own company do you know I mean all of those kind of um concepts when actually it's masking a deeper issue of I can't be vulnerable with other people yeah I remember having a conversation a while ago with someone and they used the whole cliche of like i've got to fall in love with myself before i can fall in love with anyone else and there's an element of that that i just think that isn't true like that is not a true thing like i definitely think before you get in a relationship and you bring someone else into

all your fucking shit you should have some level of self-awareness of like okay so these are my issues i may be not i wouldn't be 100 there with self-love because how can you be but i'm aware that in a relationship i might get jealous or i've got an awareness that um um i become quite dependent on people blah blah blah i think that's a healthy thing to have before but I do think 100% to me when I heard the sentence of I I'm just thinking I can't love anyone until I love myself it's almost like oh that isn't true like I don't know who told you that I know who told you that the whole history of cliche sort of self-help books but that isn't true like of course you can love people without loving yourself i don't think it maybe is the is the nicest experience but i know so many people that love people they don't love themselves i mean of course just of course you can like to me that's

obviously masking i'm scared i'm absolutely terrified yeah so i'm just gonna and it's just it's one of those things that as a vehicle, it's just too simple to say, you just can't love anyone else until you love yourself. Because if you're going to hook onto, I need to love myself first and use that as the reason for not getting involved with anyone or not having any relationships,

you might die alone. And there's nothing wrong. You're going to be wasting a long time. wrong exactly there's nothing wrong with dying alone that goes without saying but more so like if you're putting this certain kind of goal post on your life that you have to meet before you open yourself up or you're following this weird rule because i think there is of course goes out saying truth in yeah as you said love yourself before you love other people whatever sure there's loads of truth in that there's loads of good sentiment in that there's some good lessons in there goes without saying but sometimes we're just scared it's almost like what what's going to be your marker then like i sometimes like to do

this i remember even when we launched our merch, I remember saying to you, like, let's be happy when we've sold five. Like once we've sold five things, let's be happy. It's a success. We can't argue with that.

It's gone really fucking well if we've sold five things. And I sometimes like to do that. Like I like not, I'm going to be happy when I've made a million fucking pounds, but almost like, I think sometimes something will happen and you forget to feel happy about it like i'm going to be happy when i've finished my day of work today i'm going to be happy i remember now that i don't want to do it yeah so at fucking 7 p.m when i finish work i'm going to be happy

about it and sometimes i like to put things like that on but it's like this if i can't love myself i can't love anyone else until i love myself well what's your marker then exactly when is your end goal because how do you know when you love yourself yeah it's an endless well of self-loathing this world yeah where are you gonna find it like when is it when you do something that you let us know when you get there is it when you realize you did a whole day without crying is it when you realized you wore something that you thought you could never wear like what is your marker of self-love because without that you're never going to be able to guarantee the marker of the goalpost will be oh you met someone that you actually really wanted to start a relationship with you just

thought that self-love thing that i was going about that doesn't matter i think i i think i love myself yeah yeah i think i yeah i love myself now yeah yeah definitely he's hot enough for me to love myself yeah i completely love myself it's just almost like i think these are things that we're going to be working on for our whole lives and i don't ever what does perpetuity mean lord tyrian it means forever oh my god oh yes forever are we working on self-love in perpetuity yeah i just think it's almost i want it to be something that is a kind of endless well of experience and love and all of these things that if i get to the age of what 24 when i think oh maybe i maybe i want to start dating someone now i get to that age and i

think okay well i have to have mastered self-love before i get to that point okay so i've mastered self-love at 24 i start dating someone at six months later i'm 25 start dating someone then um i'm in love i'm in love and i'm in love with myself okay so what does the rest of your life look like then it looks like it looks like it's all downhill from here because you don't you can't i want these things to be learning i want at 50 to have a revelation about these things i want at 75 to go oh my god i've been doing this and i've just worked this out i want to be learning this shit i don't want to fucking i've mastered self-love now i'm in love to the next we live happily ever after who wrote that narrative because they're a fucking moron yeah yeah but then i also think as well going back to solo dates it's like if you can

nail spending time with yourself and being intentional about it in your youth by the time you get to like 60 70 like you're gonna be amazing surely yeah yeah you are setting yourself up with a good foundation i think i think it's as a rule like i don't want to say as a rule maybe but like as a general rule of thumb just off the record just between us just something some girl is gonna say on a podcast now yeah i think it would be good to be able to spend time on your own sure I think there is there is an issue of sorts if you can't spend time on your own I don't necessarily think for me the term of date is useful or even like a vibe I like for myself um but I do think that being able to spend time on your own is like literally crucial to happiness and knowing yourself i think if you can't do that then that is something maybe the term date would

be useful and it's something you should 100 go and do yeah what do you think can i ask you a personal question yeah of course just between us just off the record yeah what is the most valuable thing you've learned from spending time on your own oh okay right let me think just off the record just take a pinch of salt no pressure on the response but we're just curious the most valuable thing i've learned from spending time on my own i think that it can be really fun like i think that's one of the things like it's almost i think there's like a default in society that you're having fun with other people and then when you're on your own that's your time to like recharge so i'm recharging i'm on my own it's like a relaxing time and 100 god knows i love to relax i also think to go and of course to go and like do something fun with yourself

yeah it's fun it's like that can be as fun as doing it with someone else like there'll be so many times when like for example so for example a series comes out or a film comes out that i really really want to see and i've been thinking about this for a long time um maybe even let's use nope as an example because i actually still haven't seen nope yet which is insane for me but my family can only get together for the watching of nope on a specific day which is annoying it's like this like biblical kind of pilgrimage that we're gonna make to like the swindon fucking imax um um they'll be just trying to think about no just thinking yeah oh my god i can't wait

but like to to go and see a film that you've been wanting to see for ages on your own often i think is more rewarding than seeing that with almost just like general people friends you know family whatever if you have a real desire to for example watch this thing or listen to this band or like go and do a specific thing um it could even be like going to like a dance class you've always wanted to do Zumba the temptation would be like okay like i've got to go get a friend to go and come to zumba with me but that friend doesn't really have a an attachment to zumba they don't really care about zumba you on the other hand have been watching zumba videos for the last month and it's a real thing you want to go and do it is actually more rewarding and more fun yeah to go and do that thing on your own

than do it with someone else then like i do think no one can um for some things no people no one can keep up with your passion it's like if you have this huge passion this huge excitement for this thing then go with the person with the most passion and excitement oh it's you perfect i water it down by trying to explain it you're just watering down it watering the whole thing down by going so basically it's jordan peele is this director he did exactly you're making the experience worse horrible it's just like why am i doing that i'll just go and see it and fucking die of love on my own yeah yeah you know what i think i'd love to know what you think i think that's perfect and i think that's stunning and I think that's amazing and I couldn't possibly add anything else to that perfect thing and I'm

not even doing that I'm just coming in with my personal oh come in what this disclaimer is yeah can I come inside thank you um thanks I feel like for me I need to for example if i'm the zumba girl and i'm like oh i'm watching all these zumba videos yeah and look it looks great god i want to i want to do zumba so bad like it's really all i think about and i've found a class and i'm like shit no one's doing zumba with me am i going to do it on my own? Am I not? Blah, blah, blah, blah. I think I can very easily, sorry if you can hear my phone buzzing away. Let me put my thing on. Do you not want to step?

I think I can very easily get in my head of like, okay, you're doing it. You're doing the Zumba thing. The thing you've wanted is happening. You're doing it. Don't fuck it up. Blah, blah, blah, blah. And there's all this pressure all of a sudden for my Zumba thing to be as perfect as I want it in my head especially if I'm doing it on my own or like especially if there's been like a long-awaited kind of moment

it's gonna climax tonight yeah the music starts here we go I've got the leg warmers on I've got little neon hot pants on i'm ready to start going it's a moment she's a star um i can easily get really really frustrated with myself and actually turn it into a really horrible experience if zumba doesn't go my way and i think something that i do well to remember is yes you really want to do zumba okay you're going to do it on your own amazing but i also will add the lens of look if you can't make it if you start walking and you think fuck me i have to turn back because i'm panicking and i can't go yeah so be it if you get there and you think oh fucking hell i'm gonna have to step aside because this is way more intense than i thought it would

be and everyone else is zumbering it out and I can't keep up then so be it like if you go and you think well you know what actually zumba's not for me then so be it and I think yeah go on take it away no I was just gonna say I had this the other day and I think the crucial thing you might have been just about to say this but I I think it's like it wasn't for you that day oh god like you can go the next week like I had it just like I think it's like, it wasn't for you that day. Oh God, perfect. You can go the next week. Like I had it just like, I think it was like two or three days ago. I was going swimming

and I go swimming literally constantly, but I was going to my local Lido, went there and I like booked. And for some reason, like on the way there, I was like, I really want to swim. It'll be so nice. It'll be so nice. And for some reason,

I just freaked myself out about being in a bikini in Londonon like it just suddenly freaked me out even though i go fucking every day pretty much it just freaked me out like oh my god like oh there could be people i know yeah like oh my god like i i view this as a place that there's no one there but i've been i've been seeing some people i know there recently i've been hearing some people oh yeah i was at the lido yesterday it's like oh what there could be people I know here um and I just freaked myself out a bit and I literally I went into the Lido and the whole time I was like I don't want to do this I don't want to do this yeah and I got there sat down gave myself like five minutes to be like

you can make the decision now to leave or stay whatever you want and I chose to leave and I was like I just can't do this today and I was like I just can't do this today and I was like I'm just gonna make the and as I was sitting there I was like if I leave I make the promise to myself now that I won't beat myself up about it and then I went the next day yeah yeah and then I and I was like and I'm gonna go the next day and I went yesterday and it was absolutely amazing didn't even I actually didn't even connect it as a thing i didn't even think of it i've only just kind of connected it now um but it was just like no you just freaked out on that day you didn't want to be there on that day the next day god i had an amazing swim it was amazing i might go later tell us all this

time know when to push know when to push guys because what it would have been is come on you can do it you know you can do it get your fucking clothes if you're undressing kind of shaking at the lighter getting into the pool feeling super aware of yourself getting dressed a bit nervous blah blah blah and it's like actually if you just cut yourself the fucking slack like you didn't need to do that and i didn't do it thank fuck and then you come back the next day don't even think about it yeah absolutely fine just zumba might not be for you today that's the thing is as well i know what you lot are like and you're going to be torturing yourself about god knows what all day every day

so this is your reminder to don't do that maybe yeah that would be nice i think once you've made a decision like a bit nice to yourself today yeah i think it also if it's like you some i don't know you can make it whenever you make a decision of like for example i'm going to go on a meal out for my with myself i'm going to spend 25 pounds on a dinner for myself then maybe don't fucking spend the whole time going oh i spent 25 pounds on my i need to go i need to leave yeah everyone's looking at me yeah everyone's thinking i ordered a weird thing yeah it's like make the decision to enjoy it if you're going to make a coffee if you're going to buy a coffee out somewhere you're gonna buy a cup a coffee and a little donut whatever you want treat yourself whatever you want it's on me don't say i'm

um then make the decision i'm not going to feel guilty that I spent £7.50 on a coffee and a cake. Just remind yourself, why are you doing this? If you're doing this to have fun, then it should be fun. And yes, you're getting yourself out of your comfort zone sometimes, and that might be a little bit uncomfortable every now and then. But if you're not having fun, you're not having fun. You don't have to then call yourself a failure and write the whole day off because you tried something and it didn't work out and you can stop at any point say you've decided

okay i'm going for a three-course dinner you have the starter and you think i'm not enjoying this you can leave now yeah you can literally fucking leave yeah you don't need to be well i'm on my date and that means the date went badly it's fine exactly you're still getting a text back it's you i had a terrible date i'm gonna ghost yourself it's fine okay i think that's nice okay i like this episode i think so do i so do i good conversation what a lovely date just between the two of us what a lovely date i hope there'll be a second same time next week do you come here often honestly so often oh every bloody week in a right state most of the time okay cool well if you don't hear from us oh bloody hell yep if you don't hear from us i was going in

i was going to leave no i'm ready to go unless you have something to say no no i'm done okay well if you don't hear from us assume the worst to go and get me out of here. Unless you have something to say. No, no, I'm done. Okay. Well, if you don't hear from us, assume the worst. Wendy's Small Frosty is the ultimate summer refreshment. And not because it's cool and creamy and made with fresh Canadian dairy. It's also refreshingly cheap.

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