Goes Without Saying - self-care: the bubble bath claims another victim

Episode Date: November 16, 2020

get out of the bathtub and into the boardroom! your self-care isn't working, and we're here to tell you why. forget everything you thought you knew about face masks, bubble baths, and scented candles, because real self-care is hard work. from patriarchal marketing that tells women they're dumb, to why we're obsessed with therapy, this ep is the self-care you ~actually~ needed. join the conversation every monday. speak your mind on instagram! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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So why don't more people know this? I'm Owen Ever. I'm Lane Kaplan-Levinson. And this is a field guide to gay animals. A podcast about queerness in the natural world. The animal kingdom is queer and we are a part. Find a field guide to gay animals on Spotify, Apple. Or wherever you get your podcasts.

Acast helps creators launch, grow, and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast.com Hello everyone, and welcome back to Goes Without Saying with Sethi and Wing, your gals. We're back, we're talking about self-care, which we've talked about before. Yeah, we've got new thoughts, we're feeding feeding off of your thoughts which are always way better than our thoughts if you're new here please enjoy and get involved on the instagram to participate in all the exciting questions that we do send us beautiful messages send us your thoughts send us packages send us little self-care gifts. Fan mail. You know.

Yeah. Hampers, checks. And I can't wait. Hope you enjoy. Right, homework. I'm getting in there before you ask me. Oh God. Okay.

So yes, I've done my homework. What was the homework? I mean, for the listener to recap. The homework was to support a woman in some way with her business, give her a lovely message, that sort of thing. Well, I was thinking this through. I was thinking, who can I support? Who can I support? Then I thought, let's look within my own home. I have a sister. Basically, I was trying to scam her about a week ago. And she said she's basically started doing like, you know, like painting acrylic nails and like selling them or something on depop i believe oh that's fun and she's pretty good so i thought she was saying ages ago oh yeah i can do

yours and i'll reduce the price and i being a little scammer you were trying to get a discount i've learned from my brother who was the ultimate yeah um haggler and i was saying no no and i somehow managed to kind of convince her to pay me so she could do my nails pay me and i would give her a review wow which is pretty evil of me it's quite crazy it's quite insane but that's the kind of persuasive nature i have clearly so i had almost persuaded her but then we kind of came to an agreement of like three quid which is not enough money to pay to get your nails done you're quite desperate for cash at the moment are you you're quite strapped for cash not even i'm just trying to get your nails done. You're quite desperate for cash at the moment, are you? You're quite strapped for cash. Not even, I just get a thrill.

Trying to get £30 off your little sister. I actually get a thrill from a price drop. You do, oh, I know you do. Which is quite mad because I've never been that person, but my brother is the kind of person that buys in bulk. He's making profit on God knows what, as we speak. If you've listened to before, I mean, he monetizes at the best of times. He sells.

There are always people coming to the house to buy weird shit from Charles. It's strange. It's very strange. Kind of off like Facebook marketplace. And he's like a 16 year old boy. It's a bit weird, to be honest. It's amazing. It's a real business strategy.

It's kind of he's Alan Sugar. That's your little brother. But yeah, so then I just thought yesterday oh fuck off play pay the full fucking 14 quid or whatever it is for to get some nails done you thought yesterday oh shit i'll use this as my homework yeah i did i thought let's not scam my own family member and try and haggle down so that she pays me to do my nails for the privilege of doing my nails also i do bite my nails like nobody's fucking business. So I do actually need some acrylics on because they are looking horrendous.

Well, that sounds like a fun thing to have. What kind of paint situation is she doing? Well, she's always been really good at nail art. She's an artist, for anyone that doesn't know. She's done her TikTok name on her own nails, which is bizarre. Oh, I love that. What are you going to get?

Have you thought about it i haven't really thought about it i'm just gonna let her do her thing i think since you're giving her the privilege of doing your nails yeah i'm just gonna fucking pay the price that's my homework that's nice just gonna pay someone the money they deserve well i know that takes a lot so good for you well done 10 out of 10 homework thanks what about you mine was pretty well i think it was quite sweet there's this girl who does i'll give her at it's at customs by leanne on instagram oh yeah you have some shoes by her and i have some shoes by her so she paints she paints lots of things actually but i think she started or like was kind of known for painting on air force one so i got a

pair last wow maybe the year before really cool that i they're like astrology ones they've got kind of the zodiac on them they're really cool i still wear them all at the time yeah they're stunning and she's been honestly really i hate to say killing it hashtag girl boss but she's really killing it like she's she did a campaign for like cat boots oh wow okay she's really i've really kind of watched her even you really watch someone grow which i'm sure is how some of you feel about us i love it so i kind of gave her a message i was like i mean literally everything she does is the best thing i've ever seen it's like that kind of thing i'm like wow like and i just love like oh you did that from your bedroom I assume I'm literally making up her sob story

she's like no I literally have a studio do not underestimate me I've signed her up for the x-factor she's like don't be so patronizing yeah but she started this I miss it I just love to see someone literally just have an idea and go and do it. Because I think that's really hard. So powerful. Yeah. I love that. That's so nice. Who did everyone else message and who did everyone else support?

I'm dying to know. Yeah, same. Wish you were here, guys. Please everyone message in and tell us who. Wish you were fucking here. Honestly, wish you were here, guys. Anyway, shall we get into it? Self-care.

Fun fact. Yeah, go on. We actually postponed this episode we were supposed to record yesterday but we postponed it for a bit of self-care we literally got on facetime got the microphones out got ready to go we did our affirmations in our own minds i'm sure we're ready to go and we just said we spoke for about fucking two hours on facetime ridiculous not a productive use of time the capitalist in me is screaming we were literally finding anything to talk about other than start recording and then we just thought are we feeling this we're about to

do an episode on self-care and tell everyone guys give yourself a break but we were overworking ourselves i mean i was absolutely exhausted that day exhausted i genuinely thought i was about to die that day and we were going to force ourselves to do an episode on self-care it's insane yeah it just wasn't happening and to be honest i came to the facetime thinking i'm not recording today i don't know about sephie but i'm not doing this well i'd forced myself i was honestly like yeah you were a capricorn trooper yeah i was like you fucking bitch you better fucking do this and my pisces moon was like get me the fuck out of here and back to bed and I completely agree what were we doing why on earth were we sitting in front of FaceTime feeling absolutely

knackered I mean I'm so glad we postponed me too I'm feeling you know I'm feeling the fire today I said to Sefi earlier I'm feeling very empowered today yes I'm an arsehole which is music to my fucking ears so pretentious no I love it i absolutely love it because also it's very rare that you feel not you one feels in their own body god i feel powerful today like that's a very important feeling for women to feel and for anyone to feel but especially for women so i'm obsessed i love it and i'm actually really excited to talk about self-care if you don't know self-care was it's actually kind of our thing for a bit it's actually fucking weird actually when i think about what we start it is kind of weird go on it's fucking weird that

we did this though the first kind of post that we did that kind of it didn't really take off i it just it was quite well received at the time kind of all our friends liked it and we thought god we're famous yeah yeah our friends really did like it then they started to hate everything else we did anyway i know sephie's gonna cut that yeah no i won't cut it yeah okay it's real it's trauma and it's heartbreak but it's real yeah it's real we did a post on self-care and it really was quite validated by kind of everyone around us and it did quite well on the instagram and we really were quite quite strong in those views at the time i think our views have changed since so go on take it away what was it what was it about we basically made a post i remember it was bright red with kind of pink writing or something it was pink pink and red my old favorites palette i still do love that i love the palette but it's just it was just i mean

we made it on canva like we were still working from very on basic templates. I mean, we found Canva from some fucking old job that I used to do where I used to make little graphics and stuff. We were like, right, this will work. And it's like, no, you do actually need to evolve aesthetically. Even though I do love Canva, if you use Canva, I mean, no shade. You can do some cool things.

Yeah, if you have a small business. Start with Canva, always. Just a personal project, whatever. Still use Canva. That's a promo for canva we're sponsored by canva.com sponsored by canva today yeah we made a post and i think it said what the first slide was why your self-care isn't working and if you listen to the pilot season that will ring a bell because that was the name of our first ever episode because we thought it was amazing we were so

proud of that phrase we thought oh god that's clickbait yeah there was a line in in the um post that was like yeah self-care get yourself out of the bathtub and into the bathroom into the book get yourself out no it was self-care is a patriarchal construct patriarchal and capitalist construct to get you out of the boardroom and into to keep you in the bathtub. And out of the boardroom. And that it was on our whole thing was that it was a kind of a gendered construct that made women spend money on ridiculous items like face masks and bubble bath bombs and kind of put off their work. Whilst men can kind of just float on into the office the next day which i completely agree it is 100 marketed at women a little white woman in a bubble bath but we were fuming for some

reason we were angry at lush we were taking it up with the body shop it was groundbreaking at the time and now it's like that's i mean on the stories that that was all you guys were saying literally i made the little question box and the first one that came through was like yeah it's like that's i mean on the stories that that was all you guys were saying we're literally i made the little question box and the first one that came through was like yeah it's completely capitalist like it's just for privileged people like it's a marketing boy now and i was like oh fuck they've taken all of our points yeah completely shit what are we gonna say but i think we were so proud of that because um i think we really thought like god we really thought of this ourselves like this is really our own point no one really was saying it back then. No, I don't think they were. But this was only like a year ago, two years ago. When did we start this? Feels like a lifetime. It was in 2019 that we started this. And we were honestly,

we were taking issue with self-care. We did. Yeah, that was kind of our first victim. Yeah, it was our first victim. But I mean, we were angry at self-care because we thought it was our first victim but i mean we were angry at self-care because we thought it was patriarchal anti-feminist um and hugely kind of white supremacist capitalist vibes but still love her she's a problematic fave we do you love self-care so do you practice self-care uh yes but i guess we'll get into it do you in ways but not in the ways that i'm sold yeah yeah here we go right yeah we'll get into it, guys. So I screenshotted a few things. I actually did this yesterday, screenshotted these, but they're still relevant. My self-care is listening to your podcast. Obviously, I love this one. Researching history, watching docos and learning. For me, it's taking time to feed my soul and nourish my passions,

not spend $300 on skincare. I mean, you've summed it up. You've summed it fucking up. It's not about the conventional ways that we have sold self-care. And the other person actually that I screenshotted that really feeds in, they said, if it includes something marketed as self-care, it's probably not. And I think that's fucking true.

Our self-care ebook is triggered. Yeah, the self-care ebook, well, it's cancelled anyway. Which is gone now. It's out of, it was limited edition. New things will be coming, guys, don't worry. Will be vague, as usual, in true Sephian Wing style. If it's neatly packaged and labelled and it's got big bubble writing,

self-care in pink writing, why on earth do you think that would be good for you and not for the company? It's not about you. One of the questions, yeah, completely. And surely when everyone has a different personality let alone different trauma and different needs yeah how can one package kind of marketable self-care work for all of us surely there isn't a universal self-care

one of the um questions i put on the poll was who benefits more from self-care like from the self-care movement the consumer or the company and everyone fucking said the company so what are we doing the company how could it not be how could it not be when it's they're selling a product a product a company does not release a product that does not benefit them i also think it's really problematic and i think we said this in the all those years ago and we were kind of 15 years old it feels like we were just babies we kind of touched on how the image of self-care in kind of 2020 or the instagrammable self-care is kind of a white woman in a bubble bath with like kind of some beautiful expensive products really soft supple skin etc etc i think in terms of race as well of all of the women that

you think need to be yeah kind of deserve a bit of a break but you think it's the white woman you think it's a skinny white woman not the actually marginalized women where are the black women the fat women the working class women yeah the working class women it's the look of a middle class thin white privileged woman with some candles around her but that's kind of the thing with any instagram movement isn't it and i think it's interesting how we feed into that too that any anything really that takes place on instagram which so much of social movements now do can will they ever not be co-opted by the white woman in the way that instagram i guess is the white woman's platform in the sense that

the most liked pictures on Instagram will always be kind of a white girl in her bikini, a skinny white woman, skinny rich white woman even, we could say. Any social movement at the moment gets so much momentum and power from social media when self-care as a concept, as a theory, could be so beneficial to all of us, and we want to harness social media to get the word out, etc, etc. Can we expect it to not be kind of commodified by white, like skinny, rich white women and the kind of old white men in suits that are capitalising on it? Yeah, that's the thing. It's commodified by the white women, but kind of for the white men that are paying them to produce the adverts for them so what you're seeing on the surface level is a skinny white woman in a bath

saying i love my new l'oreal sort of face scrub it's so good and then selling that to kind of all the people that follow her but she is also being paid by a company that is run by a boardroom of rich white men by mr l'oreal who's laughing his nut off all the way to the bank they're the ones rolling in the money and then she's making a fee for the influence that she has. And then all the people below are the ones buying it. And those are the people that actually should not be wasting their money. No one should be fucking wasting your money. And the only person benefiting from this quote unquote self care is fucking Mr. L'Oreal. Yeah, completely. I think it's the thing as well of reminding ourselves that white women can be both the oppressed and the oppressor.

While she isn't kind of at the top of that hierarchy of who's benefiting from that construct, she is very much upholding the system that keeps lower class or people of colour people at the bottom, at the bottom, having to kind of work and work and work away without caring for themselves so just because they can't they can't and it's really ridiculous i remember we spoke about that book we saw remember that it was just like go bathe in the ocean or something do you want to speak about that oh my god you've just triggered my fight or flight i know so we found this fucking book So we lived in Brighton for three wonderful years. We used to actually go out together. Can you believe? I used to see you in person. I'd cry

at the thought. I mean, the day we see each other in person, I mean, we're both sobbing. I'm honestly going to squeeze the living daylights out of you. I'm going to be a hugger. God, I'm already uncomfortable. I don't like the sound. I'm kind of not going to let you go. Oh, i don't like the sound i'm kind of not gonna let you go oh i do not like the sound of that at all remind me to wear kind of a puffer jacket on that day keep my distance but um yeah we found this book we were in this kind of um sort of very rich kind of what is that shop called oliver bonus type shop it probably was to be honest oliver bonus oliver bonus very white woman shop if you're kind of from the uk you'll know oliver bonus i didn't until i went to uni i was like oh god this is like a thing people like this shop there's this book called like a guide to self

care like something about self care like really kind of our book i think it was called self care for real people or something like that and the irony of that when we fucking looked inside yeah it had listed out things that you can do for your self-care and one of them was like swim in the ocean bake a little date pie um sort of things it's like how do you get to the ocean when you live in london when you live in the middle of a city with your kind of 10 kids how are you getting to the ocean yesterday i was i did some diy i put together a big kind of chest etc i was kind of putting together some furniture and i couldn't have normally i mean as i said earlier i always have my dog on my lap that's a dog and i couldn't have my dog around because he was going to cause problems like if i had kids and i didn't have anyone to give my kid to which isn't an unreasonable scenario there are so many people i guess not

just women who have children that literally i mean it's it can be really like debilitating it's like well this is why you can't kind of do all of the things that you want to or why you can't kind of what the conservatives would say is well you would just go and you know you need to work hard you need to go and get a second job and it's like but where do you expect me to put my offspring where do you what do you expect me to do with this human it's insane it's absolutely insane and to say self-care for ordinary people or for real people is swim in the ocean is so fucking blind and then talk about a kind ofeta, beautiful like mozzarella artichoke dip with kind of chive and honey. It was that sort of thing. It was like, it was like, have a lovely dinner party with your friends and family.

Here are some recipes. A little fig butter. It's like, shut the fuck up. Literally. Shut the fuck up. You are so fucking ignorant. And then to put that in a shop and write on the top of it this is for ordinary people it's like what sort of people what sort of ordinary people do you know

how out of touch can you be yeah how fucking blind are you it's honestly tone deaf to write that book and we looked at and we were flicking through the pages honestly we read it like a fucking novel we were like this is insulting this is insane cover to cover insane in that half an hour and all of a bonus we were fumed yeah i know they were like so you do actually have to buy this if you want to i'm gonna have to purchase that we were like no we will not give them money but what kind of how is that problematic what are the impacts of that so what's the impact of that book for example the impact of that book is working class people that cannot get to the ocean to be honest ordinary people that pick up that book and go oh wow this might be some tips for me the majority

of people the majority of people are not private school people they're not kind of going to eaton and having dinner parties that's a minority this is my problem with calling people minorities i know i said that in the other episode but it's like just because someone's not white doesn't mean they're a minority yeah actually the rich people are the minority you fucking cunt that's why it's called the one percent it's pathetic but i think the implications are people read it and they think fuck off you're fucking you don't know anything and then you feel shit oh why can't i go to the ocean that sounds great yeah plant your feet in the soil i haven't seen soil in months.

Yeah. It's just like, what are you talking about? I don't have the time. I have to go to work. I'm busy taking care of everybody else. Sorry that I don't have time to whip up a quick meringue tonight. It's insane. It's a joke.

But this is part of what I loved about this message, where they said that their self-care is researching history and watching documentaries and things like that rather than the stereotypical face masks and dinner parties and see spending time with the people you love that live in different continents and things like that it's like how the fuck do i do that or like what a privilege to be able to just spend an evening with your family and things like this i loved that she said unconventional things i.e researching history because i do think the way that self-care is marketed is this blanket statement of beauty treatments it's very um very generic sort of patronizing to women i.e just get your nails done yeah to massage your feet why would i do that i like history i like history and things like that i'm not gonna i just do this nice little female thing no i'm fucking as intelligent as you i don't need to have a bath to relax i'm gonna read fucking

jane air like shut the fuck up because also i think i had this realization the other day when i was in portugal so i was spending like quite an extended period of time there quite essentially in the middle of nowhere in the middle of nowhere and i was actually very stressed out when i was there just in a way i was just um i very much had to confront a lot of things I think about myself oh god we love to hear it it was a whole experience we do love to hear it I think I just had to confront quite a lot of stuff about my own ego and things like that which transformational period almost definitely always kind of is honestly every week is just a transfer transformational period these days but I was thinking like oh god

i really just need to fucking relax like fucking just chill out and it's like okay i'll have a bath and i have a glass of wine all of the fucking things that you see on tv and people tell you to do and it's so prescriptive and i couldn't relax for weeks i was like right just fucking relax go on your walk i mean i walk constantly every day but it's like i'm not relaxing and then one night i was like right i'm gonna watch a horror film going to watch, this is something I love to do. I studied film. I fucking studied horror in particular. And I watched Midsommar, which I had been wanting to see for so fucking long. And I watched Midsommar and I was so into it. I think you should say as well that you wanted to watch Midsommar originally when it came out, you were seeing a guy and it was kind of somewhat in the plan

that you were going to see it with him. And then obviously things fell through and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But that's why I think... Yeah. Sorry, I've just spoiled your punchline, but... No, no, I completely agree. That's why I think it's the added layer of self-care

because it's like you took the ownership of that film and didn't allow it to be taken. And you just had the moment. But I realised that halfway through the film, I realised, oh my God, because I definitely think I had a block around that film. I basically,

whenever a new horror film comes out or a film that's like, got that kind of content in, I watch it the minute it comes out. I'm up with the horror news. Immediately. Always. And I hadn't watched that film for a year. It's been out for a year now,

Midsommar. And I hadn't seen it. And I definitely think I had a block around and I hadn't realised that it was about,. It's been out for a year now, Midsommar. And I hadn't seen it. And I definitely think I had a block around and I hadn't realised that it was about, I was supposed to see this with this guy and I never got to do that fun experience. Because he ended it. Cute.

Just to be as explicit as possible. Because he's a gun. Yeah, and I watched that film and I don't think I realised that until I was halfway through the film. But I was so relaxed watching that film. It's literally a film like people's heads get bashed in. Like it's quite traumatic. Like it utterly utterly bleak film but i was so relaxed

i was so at peace at one with yourself it was almost like a very meaningful film like this actor that i fucking love will porter who i've loved since i was about 12 it's quite a breakup film it is it really is but i was just so relaxed watching that film i just think that i came out of that film i felt so renewed it was just like oh my god like that is how i relax like i have to go into quite a traumatic film a film that i love okay so a bath isn't relaxing but watching people's heads get bashed in a horror film with an amazing story an amazing script is relaxing and an amazing soundtrack every and amazing actors florence pew my queen who i walked past in the street and absolutely died died with zach braff by the way did you say that yeah i walked past florence pew and zach braff was he in his scrubs yeah and i screeched and she was in her flower crown yeah and i just realized that moment the way that you relax isn't it just cannot be

prescribed by a fucking instagram post by anyone just relax have a glass of wine no it doesn't relax me i get more anxious and i can't sleep no yeah i need to watch a film that i love i also think self-care changes it's like yeah on that day you just needed to watch a horror film and on another day a bath would be amazing and on another day it would look like sitting down and writing something and on another day it would look like playing animal crossing yeah completely because i think you need different things at different moments and so this universal package not only is it not like possible it's it doesn't make any sense yeah why should your relaxation look like anything that someone can

write down kind of you need to have a good cry it's like i don't really feel like fucking crying i feel like going ice skating wendy's small frosty is the ultimate summer refreshment and not because it's cool and creamy and made with fresh canadian dairy it's also refreshingly cheap just 99 cents until july 14th it's a treat for you and your wallet acas powers the world's best podcasts. Here's a show that we recommend. Nature. I've got a gay rooster named Francois. Is so gay. These rams are gay. I'm studying gay animals. Does that mean I'm gay? So why don't more people know this? I'm Owen Ever. I'm Lane Kaplan-Levinson.

And this is a field guide to gay animals. A podcast about queerness in the natural world. The animal kingdom is queer. And we are a part. Find a field guide to gay animals on Spotify, Apple. Or wherever you get your podcasts. Apple or wherever you get your podcasts. Acast helps creators launch, grow and monetize their podcasts everywhere.

Acast.com. Do you think self-care and relaxation and relaxing go hand in hand? I think they're marketed as if they do. But my hypothesis, my argument is that they don't go hand in hand i think they're marketed as if they do but my hypothesis my argument is that they don't go hand in hand always i think sure if you're knackered you need to relax but if you've been for example i think especially with quarantine there's a lot of time spent in the house there's a lot of time spent kind of in your pajamas and things like that which are things that are marketed as self-care but right now self-care might be doing something fucking terrifying might be doing something like going to the pub with your friends i don't think it needs to get the title of self-care

yeah self-care might be kind of taking the bins out otherwise you're gonna be living in a pigsty and that's not a pleasant activity but that is self-care but i think i don't really like something about the term self-care it's like okay so now i'm taking the bins i'm like this is my self-care it's like god get a grip yeah well this is kind of my thing with intuitive eating have we spoken about that yeah we have yeah on the pod i was like yeah we have time i think we have in a body image episode yeah well i just kind of think if you have been kind of lucky enough to grow up with a reasonably kind of i don't want to say normal but there's nothing necessarily atypical about your relationship with food then you will naturally be intuitively eating and yet we have to fucking stamp it with a beautiful name and try and sell it yeah intuitive eating it's just called

healthy eating intuitive eating it's like it's just eating whenever you're hungry it's just eating just eating what you want when you want and i get that intuitive eating is can be a really really helpful tool but i just also hate that we have to market things and come up with buzzwords for things particularly when it's always targeted ultimately at a woman staring at her phone trying to find ways to appease her misery it's a little bit gwyneth paltrow to be like this is intuitive eating it's like now you're just selling me back normal eating and you're putting a fucking brand on it. Give me a crystal to put up my vagina. But it's kind of like when she started to brand up, um, walking barefoot, Gwyneth Paltrow tried to market that. And it's like, that's just called walking. And you're trying to like market

that. It's the most free thing you can do in the world. Take your shoes and socks off. It's the most free thing. And you're trying to monetize that it's like wait you actually thought a shoe was a real thing you're gonna try and market me breathing like you're so embedded in the tangible world that you you actually thought clothes were a thing embarrassing everything's a construct it's not real you don't a shoe is it's just a shoe it's not something that you have to wear always to cover your feet you could be living in a completely different realm where a shoe is not oh anyway it's mental i mean i think that we're going too abstract there a shoe is not real but don't you think that's true like you're so narrow-minded it's when it's like people that are like right you just need to learn to breathe properly it's

like all right we're marketing breathing are we now we're marketing how to breathe which i do think is really important tool for anxiety and all this stuff but it's like it's not marketed in that way it's marketed in like a cleansing healing sort of white women in a circle holding hands all breathing together in the grass it's like is this productive or is this a symbol of a symptom of privilege is this what you needed is this what you needed or did you need to divorce your husband yeah literally and i think often self-care is just kind of the the face mask if you will the mask over the actual issues and i think it can be dangerous if it's like a distraction if you think well i'm really good with my self-care i have a bath every week and i take an hour to myself and i read my favorite book and i drink my favorite wine and I put my favourite face mask on and nothing, it's still not working.

And it's like, but you haven't addressed the fact that you hate your job and your husband's cheating on you. Completely that. Completely. So a face mask won't change that, unfortunately. But you can. I was just going to go back to the shoe thing. I was going to say.

No, go on. Let's go to the shoe thing. I was going to say, I think the pandemic as well. I hate to bring it up. Yeah elephant in the room the roni really made people realize that all of these things like shoes but it's like you haven't you didn't you know back in april you hadn't worn your shoes for kind of 25 days and they were like have she died where's she gone you you thought your job was everything you thought you had to be there every single day but now you're they've sent you oh you could have worked from home this whole time could i exactly and i think

the pandemic made people confront not only the fact that they have to be busy all the time in order to distract themselves from their own thoughts misery but also the fact that so much of just the world that we've grown to know is just a construct and it can it can all fall apart any moment it's very very fragile i think that's one of the most important messages from the pandemic other than fucking stay fucking safe this is a nightmare the tories don't give a shit about us i feel like we all forgot about wash your hands i'm kind of thinking people aren't washing their hands anymore are you i'm thinking people aren't fucking doing the lockdown anymore no they're not i mean i literally see people they're not

fucking doing it i think it's beyond washing your hands i don't think people are they're like fuck this but i think the washing their hands i mean they were everywhere you look it was like people were doing kind of little videos of them washing their hands oh yeah and singing a little song and now i just know your hands are full of bacteria right but i think this is one of the most important things i think the pandemic changed everything in terms of how people view themselves and how they're situated within the society and how easily how they perceive their role can be dismantled just with with honestly the click of your boss's fingers yeah and you are irrelevant to your job we've been told you oh you've got a shit job you got a shit job you got a shit job oh now you're an essential worker you're essential the sacrifice you've made it's like no i signed up to work at the supermarket i

didn't sign up to die for my country question mark dolce de cora mest yeah dolce de cora we're literally wilfred fucking owen these days literally insane yeah the idea of you're on the front lines it's like no we're not an army i'm not giving my life i'm getting paid fucking minimum wage to be a nurse do not pretend and tell me oh you're doing this for the good of the country no i'm fucking not i've done this for years and you're not upping my pay i'm doing this because i was conned into it because i was told that i'd get a bursary when i went to uni and i didn't because you scrapped it i mean the tories are cunt and now i'm just uh anyway how do you care for yourself really when the government hate you that's the question it's so true one of the questions that we asked on the story when we were preparing for this episode

was do you prefer to be busy or not busy and everyone we heard you loud and clear prefers to be busy busy busy busy why do you think that is i know we say it all the time but we don't often say it on the pod what do well sorry what was the question why do we think everyone prefers to be busy because they're trying to distract themselves from the internal misery that is human existence. To be honest, in summary, in conclusion. In summation, it is that you are just trying to fill the void with whoever, whatever, wherever you can, rather than looking at the fact that, again,

you want to divorce your husband, you hate your job, you hate your life, you're bored. You resent the decisions you've made. I mean, we've spoken about this time and time again is why people i mean especially on instagram we spoke about this a lot why people are dying to get back to their jobs is because they are so bored and it's like what do you mean you're bored you're bored of your life you need to have a job that's so boring you just need to be paid to be bored somewhere else mental as in people are bored that they're not at their job people are bored that they're not at their jobs and therefore they're like right okay at least i'll be paid to be bored at my job

and be doing something yeah it's like so you're trying to tell me you're not bored when you're at work or you're not miserable when you're at work yeah but they just need to be doing they just want to be doing something but it's like no you can do something fun yeah you're being furloughed you don't need this for the money you just want to be there so you're doing something to be away from your thoughts that to me is mental illness i agree i think a lot of people have to be busy to distract themselves yeah from all of the misery but do we also just think in the way that it's like when you're at work you're like god i'd do anything to get at home then people go home and they're like oh i just want to want the routine i want to be back at work is it about needing to be busy to cover up the fact that they hate themselves and they hate their life? Or is the general existence of humans just

quite miserable? And yet we've been told, we've been made to feel that we should be happy all the time. But actually, most of us are just kind of plain all the time. Just mild feelings. I heard a really good thing quite a while ago now, but they said whatever you do, you'll regret whatever option you take you're gonna wish you were doing the other one so true if you're not at work you wish you were at home and if you're at home you wish you're at work if you go to the party wish you were at home if you stayed at home you wish you're at the party i mean whatever you do you'll regret it if you move house you'll hate it if you don't move house you'll hate it there's something about acknowledging that you're always always always gonna be a little bit dissatisfied with your existence and then trying to find some joy in that

i always say to my boyfriend whenever he makes a stressful decision and then he's made the decision and we're doing it i'm like right well we've made the decision now so let's at least come to peace with the decision that we've made there's no point coming to this conclusion and then still stressing about the old one i think it also comes into the kind of toxic positivity, quote unquote, thing online. Happiness myth. Yeah. And the fact that kind of we're just made to feel like we should be operating, kind of buzzing through life and so enthusiastic about things.

But actually, I think when I say like only the minority of people have experienced kind of riches, that leaves the majority of people having a lot of things in life i'm not saying you have to have money to be satisfied but i think the majority of people have a lot of things in their life that they're not like they wouldn't have necessarily chosen but i think you're made to feel like you have to be super happy all the time and blah blah blah but actually do you know what i mean and i think is it is it about the fact that we want to be busy all the time to distract ourselves or is it just because whatever you do you're just going to be miserable because most of us are miserable but social media and etc etc makes you feel like

everyone else is happy and you should be too kind of everyone else is having a better time than you or everyone else is having a better time everyone else is working harder everyone else is prettier than you everyone else is more smart than you everyone else is just in a better place than you better just an all-around better bloke than you just all-around better you're just isolated in your misery and therefore it's like okay well i should go to work to do this i think it's a bit of both in that there is an element of distraction with work and i think that is the bit to fight against that's the bit that's like oh if i just distract myself it's like well literally distract yourself with anything other than trying to make someone else rich what are you distracting yourself from that would be a good place to start

yeah what what are you distracting yourself from if your coping mechanism is a distraction please don't make it sitting at a desk sending emails please don't make it that make it anything go swimming do anything anything anything go to the ocean go to the ocean plant your feet in the soil and make your kind of cabbage roux yeah sounds lovely but when you're being furloughed anyway you don't need this money it's coming to you anyway don't be desperate to go back to work what's the point it's kind of um it's just it's mark's told it's just like um false class consciousness it's just like well i made this choice and i'm happy here i think it's the false sense of um autonomy that people take so much because our job is our identity it's kind of hi how are you what's your name what do you do i think you take that away from people

as we say especially with the pandemic and it just is so shaking to the core that it's like who am i yeah like what what what am i without this and so that's the same thing with self-care it's like what do i actually need i think it's about um i heard a phrase the other word i never i'd never heard it before navel gazing have you heard of that no what's that no i'm a big navel gazer i'd say you are too what is it it's apparently someone who really spends a lot of time thinking about their own thoughts and their own behaviors and blah blah, blah, blah. Oh, wow. Hobby. It's the hobby. Yeah, big time navel gazers. It should be the navel gazers podcast.

I don't really like it as a phrase. I quite like the name because it feels quite navel gazer. It feels like you should be taking a shot out of someone's belly button. That's what I was thinking. Navel is a bit belly button. It's a bit sexual. But gazing, obviously, I'm obsessed with. Well, anyway, I think a lot of people need to do a bit of navel

gazing really and that's what self-care is that's why people go they force themselves into kind of okay well i'll do my volunteering here and i'll do this here and i'll stay busy busy busy i'll meet this person here i'll do that and i'll do that so they don't have to do any quote-unquote navel gazing that is the thing that people are trying to distract themselves from the idea of going internal that's why therapy is great because you've allotted yourself an amount of time that you are going to go deep and you're going to cry and it's going to be a lot but it's important that you do that so that then you don't do things like okay well i'll just stay with my abusive boyfriend do you think therapy is a universal self-care i kind of think i do well i have been known to push

therapy in the way that i think it is the fucking best thing i've ever done i think it's the be all and end all of life i think it's the most life-changing fucking thing i always always always encounter people like it didn't work for me it didn't work for me and i'm always like i don't fucking believe you you didn't try properly but that i do maybe have to believe them that it didn't work for them but i almost think you can have the wrong therapist yeah but ultimately you could find a therapy that would work for you i just almost think yeah it's never gonna it's not gonna work for you if you if you just refuse to talk i i guess this is us coming from our ivory tower yeah you kind of just think well you're not doing it properly you idiot

because it's really good for me i just think it was life-changing absolutely life-changing experience yeah life-changing we both of us wouldn't have this podcast no without us being in therapy we wouldn't be able to speak like this in in the same way in the way that it's quite triggering for example to talk about things like i don't know for me it's quite triggering to talk about things like body image because it feels very close to home but because you've been in a space where you're speaking about all of this stuff you're opening up a dialogue that's really important and allows you to see yourself fully i think people are fools and i do this too i just think we're fools to assume um or kind of keep ourselves in the kind of false safety net of just kind of acting like

talking about things doesn't change our own perception of situations and doesn't benefit our own growth of course it does i think we just all kind of think oh i don't need to talk to anyone about that because i've kind of come to terms with it in my own way it's like you will not be you will not believe the things that will come out of your mouth it happens to every single person that has like a long course of therapy that i speak to you go in with a target of like okay i want to i want to discuss this specific thing and by the end you're you go in with point a you come out on point yeah um sort of 11 you're on numbers now it's like completely you go in with point A, you come out on point sort of 11. You're on numbers now. It's like completely, you go in just crazy directions.

And the root of it is something you never thought about. Or the thing that you were just like, yeah, that happened and it's nothing. Yeah. Actually, the root of this is your childhood trauma every time. Freud jumps out. Or something. It's just so important. It is, yeah.

If you want to get busy, get busy in that. Do you think it's universal? I do. I just can't get busy, get busy in that. Do you think it's universal? I do. I just can't see how the right therapist couldn't... I just think it's not going to do any harm. Yeah, in that way, yeah. I think it is about finding the right therapist, though. Like, I think if you're a woman,

I think it would be a specific scenario where having a male therapist would benefit you. Like, if you're a person of colour, I don't see how having a white therapist could be more beneficial to you than having... That's what I was just going to yeah just atrocious just like you cannot help me in any way like there is no way that you can relate to an experience just it's not even about having because then people are like oh i've got someone who relates to me i've got i've got everything i

need blah blah blah but it's like it's also about having someone who's trained and fully equipped to steer you in all of the right directions to help you you don't want to be helped do you all right fine no people don't no people don't no they don't absolutely the number of people that i've spoken to in in a way that we so do you remember we were speaking a few episodes ago that people kind of tell us things that are quite intimate probably because we skip the small talk and we have this podcast or whatever and we speak in a certain way that people feel like they're in therapy at times which I do love I love an intense conversation but it's sometimes a bit much the number of times I've been in conversations with people where it's been hours and hours and hours of trying to essentially solve their problems and it's exhausting draining absolutely too much not getting paid for

this didn't sign up i've got things to do and then at the end you kind of suggest something like i think you'd really benefit from therapy because essentially that's what i've just been doing for fucking hours um and they go no no no i just wouldn't benefit i wouldn't benefit i've had it before and it just didn't help me it didn't help me like i wouldn't be good with it and they just come up with it's like do you feel better after this long conversation that i've just given you yes or kind of i'm busy on tuesdays i can't do it oh no my mum had therapy two years ago and she said that the man said was rude to her does come of any reason yeah why they wouldn't do it oh no i've got dance

lessons on friday it's like who said anything about friday i think people love their own misery and also i think it's just mental i hate to say mental but in this day and age there's still a stigma or it feels kind of a bit radical to actually go and do it which is so unfortunate i honestly think every single person would benefit i think it feels a bit la like it feels like oh yeah i'm just gonna text my therapist about it it feels like you think you're a movie star yeah i also think a lot of people think it's like a problem like you're kind of a problem child like oh you've just kind of bit snowflake generation kind of a wacky yeah suicidal like piece of shit like that sort of thing like i almost always saw it as quite glam like a quite glamorous thing i'm off to

therapy i quite liked it well it's obviously a massive privilege exactly unfortunately because it really i just think it shouldn't be it just shouldn't be there are amazing charities actually that do it there'll be like poc therapists that only work with poc essentially for free that are charities and um obviously you can go through the nhs but it's just a fucking process you just have to really do some research the nhs process is i mean i've seen people that have gone through that and it's just long yeah and you've got to kind of go in sobbing or you don't get to see anyone which isn't a problem for someone like me no turn it on tell me anything i'm ready to go i said to my boyfriend yesterday i was crying yesterday and my boyfriend was like oh don't get upset and i was like i'm not getting upset i just am upset always and i just tap in and out of the feeling it's like if you're not upset you're not

paying attention to this world the world is upset yeah yeah the world is triggering it's like i'm not i'm not just crying now i'm just allowing the tears to come out they're always there yeah so one of the questions was do you blur the lines between self-care and procrastination and 74 percent of people said yes they do i knew they would i knew they would knew knew knew it of course you do because it's marketed as as we were saying it's marketed as relaxation kind of unwind have a bath have a rest and all those things unwind from your dreadful life yeah that's how it's marketed your life is so bad relax and it's like can i not make my life good can that not be the focus yeah i saw well i heard actually an interesting thing i feel like all i ever do considering the fact that i actually don't

ever listen to any other any podcasts all i do on this podcast is recommend that you turn off our podcast and go and listen to another one but i think it's called caught off guard with patricia bright she's great from taoi no i was thinking lydia bright no but i do also love her they've got podcasts called the brights the bright family remember we did she message us once is she brit pelt princess yeah patricia bright is but remember lydia bright from taoi we had a we had a she's a priestess back in the day with her at the beginning probably yeah back in the self-care episode times yeah. Anyway Patricia Bright has an episode of her podcast Caught Off Guard with Grace Beverly the artist formerly known as Grace Fit who again another Bruce Derns they're coming out of our ears. Yeah Grace Fit she loves us too. Oh and it's mutual. Oh and but well it's not mutual because she doesn't give a shit about us and we just love her. No. well it's not mutual because she doesn't give a shit about us and we just love her she was saying on that podcast about how self-care for her at least isn't always

not doing her work for her self-care is making sure that she's working to her deadlines being really proactive getting things done being really busy and making sure that she's keeping essentially her business growing and it's like to be honest yeah for you your self-care today might be finishing your fucking homework you idiot yeah stop listening to this podcast i'm procrastinating and go and do all the things i'm thinking this is the homework for this week what about what do you think yeah i'm into it i think it's do something difficult because i think self-care is not always easy and beautiful we said before self-care often is ugly and difficult and hard it's the things that you're putting off that's why it's you actually caring for yourself it's about difficult conversations and doing things that give you anxiety i think nothing is harder than having that conversation that you've put we all have a conversation right

now that we're putting off with someone i mean i can name about 10 conversations that need to happen between me and people in my life that have just not happened because they're fucking hard they're terrifying they have the potential to kill the relationship if they can't if they don't meet it and things like that so i mean it's just the time to do something hard guys like for example this podcast is my pride and joy but this was not born out of self-care in the traditional sense this was born out of the self-care of really doing something so fucking weird and random and like ridiculous and outrageous and kind of mortifying ourselves and really pushing our boundaries of what was capable most people ask us how do you start a podcast it's like you have to be out of pocket be on google 24 7 and really if you're starting from scratch it's gonna feel we used to-7. And really, if you're starting from scratch,

it's going to feel, we used to say, you're starting not from scratch, you're starting from scraps. Scraps around you. It feels scrappy. Scrappy do. God, we love the word scraps. Yeah. And I think self-care actually is about, if what we're trying to do is tighten the gap between who we are and who we want to be. What does that person have? Who you want to be? Who are they? What do they have? What are their accolades? What are the things that they, what are their privileges? How did they occupy their space in the world? Then how do you get

there? And they don't get there by sitting around with their face mask on. I wish they did, but they don't. This is the sad bit, isn't it? Yeah it yeah it is sad the marketing around self-care and how we're all told to take care of ourselves is so easy it keeps you in the bathtub and out of the boardroom yeah we were fucking right back in the day yeah back in the day they're only ever telling women stay at home it's no coincidence that the things they're telling you to do are domestic they're based in the domestic sphere where women are supposed to be quote unquote in the patriarchy's dream world which it already is women are in the bath they're in the kitchen kind of cooking a lovely date salad i don't know why i'm having a go at dates today i fucking love days days i love them i would actually love a date or two yeah it's no coincidence that

they're all based in the home it's not oh it's your self-care is get that promotion no it's not that yeah your self-care is do a new no it's not that yeah your self-care is do a new skill but stop become an ice skater i've got a real thing with ice skating at the moment have you noticed i said it to you the other day remember i was like i go ice skating once and i'm like i need to do this quarterly i'm doing this again within the next three months otherwise i'm a failure i kind of have had a thing with basically whenever something goes right for us i.e when we get in a magazine or something like that i'm kind of like or like even an exciting email i'm kind of like i need to go ice skating i need to be on ice honestly i need my body to match my mind priestess on ice we need to stop saying priestess i know i

know i can't get it out of my stinking mouth we need to keep up with the branding this is a professional podcast guys with the new branding but yeah it's no coincidence that the things they want you to do are very easy they're very female quite very feminine they're simple in the home non-threatening to men it doesn't threaten a man if you wear a face mask to be honest he likes that your skin's looking good it does threaten a man however for you to say oh right i'm gonna learn to drive so i'm not dependent on my husband who has always been the driver of the family if you've been putting off learning to drive and you can do that where you are right now obviously safely if you're listening to this when the pandemic is going on which to be honest i can't imagine how you wouldn't be

you should absolutely get that moving the biggest skill a woman can learn i'm convinced do you think yeah in the way that you cannot walk anywhere once the sun has gone down without fearing for your life i genuinely think driving is one of the most liberating skills the fact you can take yourself across the country on your own until they follow you to the car that's the fear then you have to check the boot and all of that shit but that's pathetic that we live in this world yeah look behind you when you get in the driver's seat yeah which i do every time i check the boot yeah because i'm terrified because i am too informed it's like how how i would love to live ignorantly but i would get murdered that way do we talk about that person who doesn't have the fear

they can't feel i literally don't know who they are i can't remember this it was back in school days we learned about this person who doesn't have fear they can't experience fear and they've had so it's not funny so many near-death experiences because you're just kind of walking on the motorway or like getting kind of held at gunpoint because you need you need a bit of a healthy amount of fear but we've evolved to have fear for some reason this week the homework is challenge it yeah get out of your comfort zone so you don't grow in your comfort zone we're talking about fight or flight we're choosing to fight this week oh i love it yeah i love that we're choosing to fight we're oh i love it yeah i love that we're choosing to fight we're looking our problems head on if you have social anxiety you're scared of going to sit in

a cafe or something you're going to a cafe actually you're not they're all closed you're going to sit in a park on your own read a book in the freezing cold you like we're doing the scary fucking things this week yeah i wish you know what i would love again roni got in the way to say this week if you can financially do this go to the cinema on your own have you ever done that yeah most empowering moment of my life i haven't yet done it and now i'm like for fuck's sake they're all shut i did it kind of because do you know what i fucking saw as well i'm angry at myself i saw this also what was quite embarrassing about it was so i did a gap year i was very um alone on my gap year gap year we didn't know each other

don't be angry with me for leaving her on her own i literally hadn't met her we didn't know each other yeah we met at uni it's not erin's fault i mean i did a gap year but i had a really good job blah blah i went to japan it was really good you did a lot of noble gazing that year i did i just became the person i am i was also defeated from my loss my battle against x to university had been defeated and i had a lot of ego. Yeah. I had a lot of ego to kill. Fuck you if you went there and I'm joking.

Yeah, so I went to the cinema on my own. I drove there and I was so excited to see the worst film in the world with my worst actor in the world, the Danish girl starring Eddie Redmayne. I fucking despise that cunt. That private school little rubbery lip man who's so awful bumhole

mouth yeah bumhole mouth i hate to insult someone's appearance but also big old smile in my face when i say it bumhole mouth bumhole mouth and i sat there and what was awful about it so i was like right okay i'm gonna go and fucking see this film i really want to see this film for some reason because it is a great concept but fucking awful because he's in it is he not nominated for an oscar for that yeah they fucking love him the world loves that guy did he win it even probably they love him they're up his little bumhole mouth the academy love they're so far up his bumhole mouth that academy i went to go see that but the awful thing was my sister was also going to see it the same day and she's like you can just come with me and i was like no the whole point is that i go on my own

the whole point i go on my own and i thought i had kind of got a different showing to them you thought you'd broken the glass ceiling but no they were sitting at the front of the thing obviously thinking why is she not sitting with us i was like no guys i obviously i want to do this on my own it's a statement yeah so i sat at the back on my own and my sister was at the front like what the fuck is going on oh my god that's hilarious i hate the film i hate that man i actually don't hate the film i actually remember the film being good i hate his face i hate that posh face yeah him and benny cumberby yeah benny cumberby bleak people where did this go shall we wrap are we done here yeah i think we're done so i'm done so i need to get in the bath and put a face mask on yeah i need to i honestly need to work my

fucking butt off today it's writing day around here it is writing day it's big time it's kind of deadline day yeah it's deadline day we need to get to it so this week get yourself out of your comfort zone and do something that you i think do something that's scary that's gonna get you closer to being the person you want to be oh i love that so much small manageable but scary brilliant but scary yeah brilliant kind of it's like eat three meals today yeah you know do the things that if you haven't had a shower in a week you need to have a shower and you're gonna do that after you listen to this yeah exactly it can literally just be that we're doing good things but i'm gonna be doing something

big i don't know about you but you can have your little shower and i'm gonna come back and really impress you next yeah we've got to come back and feed back because all i'm doing this time is paying my sister the fair price to do some nails. So I need to do something better. Me too. But also, I love that we've added this to the podcast. I just feel like we're really actively... Also, if you're not listening to this week by week and you're just kind of, I don't know,

you find this in a year to come and you're kind of listening to these day by day. Yeah, you're not exempt. No, no, no. If you're listening to this in 2020 no sorry 2022 if the world is still going it does feel like we haven't had a 2020 doesn't it to me it feels bizarre that we're going into 2021 i still very much feel like i'm getting my head around 2020 although i've seen the number 2022 many times for my life more than i've seen any number i'm sick and tired of that number 20 is that every other tweet is just 2020 20 is that i can't be

asked that's true that's true don't want to be reminded yeah fair enough also it's just gonna get worse and worse isn't it's this whole idea of oh when 2020 is over it'll be great it's like guys well i'm quite seeing the light with trump being humiliated best fucking moment although a glimmer of hope because obviously biden is a sexual predator. Exactly. But a glimmer of hope. Lots of things to do. But just to see a disgusting man be humiliated. It's always nice, isn't it? Wouldn't say no. And just not be able to lose.

Just to be like, you cheated. It's just like, oh, I'd love to see you squirm. Love to see you down for it, yeah. Let's go before we get kind of assassinated for upsetting a Trump supporter. Right, I'm happy to be. Or kill me. I'll die a martyr.

Yeah, exactly. Whatever. We're heading down that road. See you next week or not. Ha ha ha ha. I just died in your arms tonight. Right. Bye.

Bye.