Goes Without Saying - self-doubt: positivity or perfectionism, choose your fighter

Episode Date: May 8, 2022

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Acast helps creators launch, grow, and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast.com Goes Without Saying. You're listening to Goes Without Saying with Sefi and Wing. I'm Wing. And I'm Sefi. And fucking hell, you are in for a real ride here um i really feel like this episode has been therapy for me personally i'm sure seffy doesn't feel the same but i hope that by listening to this it might feel a bit like therapy for you if at least you

can take from it the fact that other people in the world are maybe as insane as you are um maybe hate themselves as much as you hate yourself i hope you don't but realistically i've been looking around and i think there's a lot of self-loathing going on um i think this is a nice comforting episode i think there are some good reminders in here about just trying to hold on to some scrap of self-worth we give a few different tips on that i think um and i hope you enjoy it bloody hell so wings feeling manic they're gonna be so bored of me saying i'm coming today with chaotic energy there's like there's only so many cute ways you can say that you're coming feeling like shit go on i feel absolutely fried i feel like i've fried

my brain off and it's just like crispy bacon up in here what do you want to talk about just crispy bacon um no let's just pretend it's not happening oh i thought you said you did um well you said let's talk about it and i said let's just start recording because i don't have time let's just not even go it's just fine there's nothing to say but i think this episode will be good doing what self-doubt i'm sure there are things we can say about that should we also explain a bit about what's going on just briefly for anyone who's confused we're having a recording bonanza today because we're trying to pre-record things wings going away she said it in the last episode i think um so we're just trying to get a bit ahead of ourselves so that she's not

on a beach with my head or just on track i mean i wouldn't mind being on a beach and with a microphone if i could guarantee that it was gonna work the wi-fi i don't want to go over there and not have you know have an empty back pocket i want to have things stacked up ready to go we're not taking any chances yeah yeah i'd love i'd love to have three weeks as well i think i'm gonna go to lisbon i'm going on holiday it's to have three weeks as well. I think I'm going to go to Lisbon. I'm going on holiday. I'm three weeks. Oh yeah, I want to hear about this. Being given the permission for three weeks.

I mean, I'll take it. Are you going to go for three weeks? I'm not going for three weeks. No, no, I'm going to go to Lisbon. I'll book a one way thing. And you're staying with your dad, right? Yeah, definitely. Nice.

But I don't know. So I'm up for three weeks of pre-recorded things. Of being pre-recorded. Yeah. Yeah. So it'm up for three weeks of pre-recorded things. Of being pre-recorded. Yeah, yeah. So it kind of works in all ways. It's actually a bit of a nice treat for you. Yeah, I'm really excited.

And the merch will have come out by then. And I think by the time you're listening to this, the merch will be out. Yeah, by the time you listen to the merch, So hopefully everything's going smoothly and we're not cancelled or something crazy. I've got all sorts of theories that Sefi doesn't like the sound of yeah we've been speculating i've been really throwing some things out there haven't i it's fine we have foreseen our

downfall many a time from many different routes too many times i've really been doing the prophecy of the cup give me the cup it's really been like the grim but it's fine but i see this not going well but it's fine i'm confident i love the merch i've got i've got some things in my hand i have seen the things you have got in your hands i'm seeing them soon i'm confident okay good but yeah so we're doing a bonanza of recording recording recording we've got the most mental week coming up um but it was quite fun that on one of our like i was making a to-do list while we were on facetime and we're like making a thing i was trying to write it all down because as we all know my memory isn't to be trusted so i thought let's write this down before i get a call and i'm in bed being like you ready he's like wait what

um and on like thursday it's pricing it's like what the fuck is our life pricing we're deciding on prices for things and as much as we can obviously well yeah and i hope we can make them as low as pass but it's just quite fun that pricing is on our to-do list i know that's why i'm just trying to get a grip and i think that's kind of what this episode will be a bit of a like just let's just take a breath just like take a second reality check of sometimes the stress sometimes fun thing is like i've said a million times over i will find a way to make the most fun thing a stress for myself which is silly we can't and i need to just take a second to be like look we've got an amazing thing going we're

doing an amazing thing yeah i'm sure i will be able to get everything done in time like you will be able to do things too like i just immediately feel like i don't have enough to blah blah anyway i think we were kind of talking about it in the last episode of like you even have the choice and i think we talk about it every episode and just every conversation we have you either have the choice okay so we our merch is coming out on the friday our merch is coming out on the friday we either then have the option to hate every experience about it have fear fear, all of the things, or we can just enjoy it. The merch is the same with the same amount of success or failure, no matter how we feel.

Let's just choose to relax into it, have a normal amount of fear and kind of apprehension. But we're so lucky. Can I explain my fear? Yeah. We are so lucky. My fear, I haven't even thought about like to me like i remember you're like i hope it does well blah blah i'm like i don't know it's not even i hope it i know

i don't think that no no no no but remember you were like i just hope it i hope it goes well like people like it like blah blah blah i hope there are some sales i definitely would like to people to buy it and want it yeah i'll be gutted if i look at zero zero zero i mean look we've gone through those times just like no one wanted look we've gone through those times just like no one wanted it we've gone through those experiences too um but it's not even that I'm not I'm not even I haven't even thought about if no one buys it the good bits that's how much of an idiot I am I don't think no one will buy it I'm scared people will buy it because I'm scared that people will buy it be disappointed and be like oh my god they got way too ahead of themselves like too early oh my god like yeah i mean they're just

gonna be like what the fuck like they shouldn't have done this is a bad idea like kind of like at the first opportunity they just sat they just threw everything in like they just they fucked it that's what i'm scared of i'm just gonna be honest with you guys i'm also i'm also scared of that i hadn't really thought of it in that those words words, but that does make it sound horrifying. I don't think it's a thing of like, I haven't even thought about sales or like it going statistically well. That's not it though. I'm also just, not that you have, no, no.

But more so my fear is that anyone who does buy it, first of all, I just immediately feel guilty because I'm like, where'd you get that money from? Like, did your nan give that money to you in a birthday card or have you been working all week and you've spent it on something that we have made and yeah like we've poured so much love into it but i immediately feel bad that you've done that and i just feel like it won't live up to this expectation of what i or like not the expectation but the hope of what i would want it to be so it just immediately is a failure. I just can't think like that.

I just feel guilty. No, no, please don't. I can't go there. I'm just vocalising my... Jesus Christ. My brains. And there's just a lot to do. So I just want to make sure that everything gets done.

And like, I'm just an idiot. I'm just like that. No, you're not. You're not. I would also just put the thing out. If you are buying this with money from your nan please don't buy it with the money from you yeah but not even that even like i think i think i'm just having to confront like oh people listen like regardless

if anyone buys merch it's like merch aside people listen we exist in people's minds okay just process it's fine anyway yeah i think i've only ever viewed much in the terms of like it's a flop or it's not or like it there's a scandal there's like a scandal or it's flop but like what does it look like for it just to go well and i'm just trying to get into yeah not really not ruining a fun thing i just can't i just can't go there it's a fun thing buy it if you want it don't buy if you don't want we really like it and we're also really scared but also i hope you like it and it's in my in my eyes it's stunning and there's no more i can yeah i can't do the torture i've just tried really hard or like i've just thought about it too much and i'm getting too quiet i'm just i'm in a sour point at the

moment because everything's going on so i'm making this really sour when like a few weeks ago when it was designing times i was having the time of my life or like even like yeah when it was just like when we were talking about it it's like this is so fun it was an abstract idea yeah yeah but it's crunch time and like going in and like being on the back end of stuff is just stressful like doing the admin is always really stressful it just always takes longer than you think it's going to blah blah anyway everyone's bored self-doubt as you can see i struggle with very much living in that energy right now this is just in the moment this is just very topical which is very relevant um this is hashtag relatable content for me personally oh my god i think well it's the most relatable topic because it's

everyone has experienced that can i ask you a question yeah is there anything that you've ruined because of self-doubt like in your life that you're like fuck you fucked that because of your self-doubt like that could have been a fun experience and you just your self-doubt just got away with you because as you can see i'm in the process of doing that now i'm destroying something right now and i'm sorry that you have to witness that I'm sorry that you're a part of it I think I have so many times and that's why I'm absolutely determined in most aspects now to not let it because I know that it's about perception I know that it's um false if I know that some of the most amazing people I've ever met and have fucking seen on tv all of the shit they experience self-doubt i know

that it has to be a lie i know that it has to be um any kind of worry or fear is amplified um literally by a million in your own mind so i can't i can't i can't do that when it or like i can feel the feelings but i'm not gonna let it impact my life like i can't not go to the party out of self-doubt i can't not go to the job interview out of self-doubt i can't not go to the party out of self-doubt i can't not go to the job interview out of self-doubt i can't not go to the fucking the fair wherever i'm going like i can't not do the thing there's a fair outside my house right now and i really want to go giving euphoria but whatever it is you can't not go on the fucking date because sure you fucking doubt yourself you can doubt yourself all you want but i think when it's impacting your life that's when you um have an issue actually okay but this isn't impacting your life tell me that over text but it's fine this is no it is impacting no no but it's not

stopping you from doing it you're feeling the feelings but you're not suddenly saying we're not doing the merch no not yet no i'm joking but that's when i think that's when it's when you know that it's irrational but you have to ruin the thing anyway i also don't think that's when you know that it's irrational, but you have to ruin the thing anyway. I also don't think that sometimes, well, I don't feel right now like I'm irrational. I think you are. I'm sorry, I think you are. But I think-

Maybe you're not, maybe you're not. I don't think I am. I think it's pretty fair and realistic for someone who isn't necessarily, we're not necessarily influencers. We don't know what the fuck we're doing. We started this out of nowhere and this is really the first opportunity of us to really um we're monetizing something so immediately the stakes are higher because you've got your you've got listeners money at risk and it there are real there can be real ramifications

of situations like this where people don't understand their responsibility to like pull through on something and i just feel like the response of there's a lot of i just feel like it's a big responsibility it is it's huge and actually i'm gonna be honest with you guys i've got a sample of something from the merch here and i'm like that's not going out i have to fix it no that needs to be changed and i'm gonna go back in and change every single item to make sure that it comes out better um because it's a big responsibility and I don't want anyone to fucking spend money on something that isn't good enough anyway and I just also feel like I just always I think a lot of people do this you just immediately go through every different

avenue of how things might go in your mind before you venture out into something at times that's really useful and helpful because you can stop yourself from getting into potentially dangerous situations or making big mistakes that could be really um bad for your life have a big negative impact on you but i also think that what i'm experiencing right now is that i'm also sucking the fun and like pride and enjoyment and pleasure out of a situation that should be really amazing and is like a real um something that we should be really proud of and i don't feel proud at all i feel insanely stressed you guys aren't getting paid for this by the way you're my therapist for an hour i can put like i completely agree there's a million million fears going around there's a

million different narratives going around and yeah it has without question to be perfect it has to be it has to be fucking great i think the bit that's irrational is the sucking the joy out and sucking the fun out and putting the different weights it's because it's the different weight that goes on and when you view this as external which i always try and do and i am permanently fucking trying to do especially with a situation like we're doing merch whatever um i'm trying to view it from external zoom out yeah zoom out but like not even to the level of the aliens just to like a friend just as what that's watching us doing it just zoom one level out yeah it's so cool it's like oh god i'd be jealous i would want this i would want this but no but i also think i would also be anxious i think it's also scary it's anxiety inducing it's

a lot of work it's fun and it's exciting all of the things at once yeah it's not just fun and it's not just horrific the thing that's irrational is either going it's purely fun it's purely fun and amazing which i think is the early stages of having an email saying oh you're doing a thing it's like oh my god no yeah but the later stages comes the the work the stress the fear all of the fucking mental games you do i immediately see the emails and think oh i saw the email and i was really excited i was really excited me too i was so excited but i was also like that is going to be stressful yeah and it and it yeah i think it has been and will continue to be but i also determined not to rub out the fun in it for sure and i'm sorry that i'm rubbing the fun out of your experience no no sucking it out honestly like um yep let's get out of the pits

okay so in terms of what i asked you about like have you ever not like have you ever ruined something with the self-doubt is there a situation in mind um that maybe changed things i feel like like i've been speaking about it a lot i think but when i for example when i had really bad anxiety at uni that was a time when self-doubt was ruling my life and I think this is what I mean by having to stop having to catch myself before I um don't go to things or don't um self-doubt can exist within me but it can't fucking rule my decision making it can be in my fucking mind it can't be in my fucking physical life because my self-doubt was so bad

at that time that I wouldn't go well my anxiety and kind of all my fears about myself was so bad that i didn't go to things i i lost out on so much of my education because i physically couldn't go i was so scared nine grand a year it's expensive fucking expensive anxiety and you got to get therapy on top of that yeah and i and i missed out on like meeting people and all of this stuff because I was so doubting of myself and I think that's why it's so important to me to not let it rule my decisions it's like you can feel like fucking shit at the party you can feel like fucking shit on the day totally but you're not feeling like fucking shit and then cancelling you can do that out of loads of things you can do that because you're tired you can do that because you don't feel like it but you can't do it out of self-hatred

because it doesn't help and you feel like shit and it doesn't solve the problem yeah no it doesn't it actually just amplifies it but there are so many specific like but that's one that's just like i was absolutely ruled by fear and just doubt of everything did you know straight away when self doubt was a big issue for you did you know straight away oh i'm dealing with a lot of self doubt here actually or how long did it take you to identify like actually what i'm experiencing is i'm overthinking i'm feeling anxious and it's preventing me from doing things how long did it take you to put two and two together i think it's really common and I think is my experience whenever I go for a phase of self-doubt actually, to go through a period of like potentially even

like a few weeks of feeling like shit and just being awful to yourself really until maybe someone else or like until you kind of come outside of it sometimes like sometimes i go through it for fucking weeks and then i see someone that i haven't seen in a while or i do something kind of outside of my routine and i'm like oh wait i'm not feeling it now i've been feeling bad like it takes me time usually a break in my routine yeah to be able to identify like um i've quote unquote a rut not loving the word listen to our episode ruts funks and depressive slums great name from wing but yeah i think sometimes it will be like in hindsight that i'll be like oh you were feeling like really bad yeah

i think i'm really bad at noticing even just like how i feel in any moment well i think when you're in the cycle and it really is a cycle i think of like torturing yourself and like bullying yourself essentially and just being so horrific to yourself that you're so busy being a dick to yourself that it's like i don't even have time to actually see this for what it is because i'm so consumed by being annoyed with myself or you hate yourself exactly the last thing you deserve is like a cup of tea and just like sit down like it's like yeah you have to get everything right you yeah yeah it's awful it's also impossible yeah no you can't you can't go to that thing no you can't you can't

it's really hard to identify emotions do you think you're quite good at because i always think this is something i'm bad at i really want to get better at it but do you think you can identify how you feel in them like when you're feeling bad do you think you can be like right now i'm experiencing i.e self-doubt i need to check that yeah it if i'm like really emotional like in a really heightened thing like i'm suddenly really angry frustrated or upset it might take me like 45 minutes or something to be like i'm emotional this is probably why this is what's going on like i'm feeling really frustrated or i'm feeling really overwhelmed because of blah blah blah i put the label to it i'm feeling angry exactly yeah but

generally speaking i'm pretty good at knowing how i feel and knowing probably um what i might be doing that isn't helping, for example. I think that's really good. But in times when it's so common, oh my God, to just be like, why the fuck? I mean, I'm always like that. Why the fuck am I in this mood? Almost like that thing where you're like, I don't even know why I'm crying. I don't know why I'm crying.

And then like halfway through, you're like, oh, I'm crying because I'm like really upset. That's the slogan. That is such a catchphrase. I don't know why i'm crying because when you're crying it's how else do you kind of informally and like jokingly say that you don't feel like your emotions are valid yeah yeah literally do you know what i mean how do you invalidate yourself to like your friend or whoever is with you while you're crying for example thousands of people listening to your podcast in a calm casual kind of cutesy funny way in a kind of memeable way i don't know why i'm crying it's just perfect there's nothing like it it is no it's

perfect it's a perfect phrase but it's absolutely terrible because it's the mantra you may as well be saying i don't know why i'm crying also half the time i don't know why i'm crying totally but you may as well be saying i'm embarrassed i'm sorry that i'm taking up your time yeah and how i feel is not valid just ignore me yeah do you that's what you really want to say do you i'm trying to think whether you do but go on i'll tell you no i think you do like i'm just trying to think of when it happens but i don't know but do you apologize when you start crying because a lot of people cry and then go sorry i'm sorry yeah i think you do as well i think i do as well on the podcast i do but it's such a horrid thing isn't it like i do it i actually it depends i do it to you when we're recording i say i'm so sorry because i'm mostly apologizing to the listener who's like at the gym trying to get through a set and suddenly like this to this grown woman is crying in their ear holes um it's like yeah that wasn't the vibe we were

going for today um so i feel i do feel bad when i cry in the episodes because i'm like i know i didn't put this in the title and you weren't ready to go in this was not what you were looking forward to yeah um so sorry about that and i think i've apologized to you when i'm crying over facetime which has happened more than once because i know that it's not nice to be on the other side of it like i hate i think that's horrible when the other person is miles away and you're just like i want to like help but you can't but in real life when i'm with a friend or like with my boyfriend and i'm crying i'm definitely not apologizing to my boyfriend when i'm crying like we just don't have time for that no way i think i only apologize when i feel like you brought the wrong vibes do you know what

i mean like it was we were had we were having a certain vibe and then i brought us classic to the pits very on brand but that's more so because i think i'm i don't feel bad that i'm crying like i think i should cry if i want to cry i think everyone should cry when they need to cry but more so like i don't know if i wanted to cry um at bills yeah when you were eating your avocado on toast i'm sorry that i did that to you because now you've paid like 16.95 to have a nice breakfast and the whole time you were like listening to someone cry do you know what i mean i completely know what you mean it's just it's not what you were expecting and that's more so why i'm like look sorry sorry yeah yeah sorry about this i know i completely agree sorry to do this to us and our day it's when you feel like you're yeah

you're taking the time you're you're changing the time yeah completely yeah which i always am but whatever oh same i cried in a um in a queue to a club just like five minute five minute cry back on track just like really did you feel better after it's kind of being sick on on a drunken night i did but it was really like bizarre i was rude to my friend then she was rude to me back like i just said like a shitty comment to her then she just had a shitty comment to me then i just started crying she's like you're gonna cry i was like yeah i am gonna cry now you said i'm gonna cry and then just started crying for like five minutes and then i was just like i feel fine now it was the i mean that does sound horrible the one of the weirdest dynamics ever um but it was just like sometimes sometimes you change the vibe and i think i probably apologize then yeah but it was just like sometimes you change the vibe. And I think I probably apologized then. Yeah. But it's just kind of, yeah, I think it's when you change the tone of a night out.

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So there's one that I really liked. They said that what they do to overcome self-doubt is they said, where is it? Yeah, here we go. Remind myself of everything I've already achieved when I doubted myself at the time. And I think this reminds me of i used to keep a notes like a notes folder what is called like a notes document on my phone um what is it called a nose yeah just a note on my phone of like all of the good things um that i've done just all the good things people have said to me just fun things in my life just like a happy fucking list in my phone

and i think i highly recommend highly highly highly recommend doing it because it's just like sometimes you literally don't have access in your brain to the good elements of your life and the good elements about you it's just not it's fucking the door is locked and you can't get there so i think when you're in a good mood write some shit down every time someone says i like your skirt write it down someone said i like your skirt you're gonna need it one day yeah trust me when you're wearing that skirt and you feel like shit bank it just bank it lock it up and you're gonna need it again one day i think it's the best thing you can fucking do yeah um it kind of when we say like look at or try and look at kind of the objective facts yeah because self-doubt so much of the time is

really not coming it's kind of what you're saying about the beginning about being irrational so much of it is not coming from a place of objective fact it's coming from self-hatred or xyz it's coming from a load of shit that really you're going to waste your time listening to it that's it it's a it's a waste of time that's exactly it complete waste of time it is a waste it accomplishes nothing it's a waste of time is it look at the facts take what you need account for what you need to account for yeah and keep moving forward but like taking it so deep and like letting it cloud over all your days it's such a shame and trusting it as well and trusting that voice as if because it's negative it must be true i think that's one of the big fuckers in the

mind that it's a real negative it must be true and if it's kind it must be false i just someone sent the best message about that they said this is a technique they learned from therapy and they recommend it and i actually couldn't agree more is great. They said they think of an imaginary critic. So I think of an imaginary critic inside of my head. Right? Just cut open my brain. Oh, that's it. Sorry, it sounded like you went up.

No, no, no, that's not it. There's more, there's more. Oh. Imagine. Yeah, think of the imaginary critic inside of your head. Can you picture them now? All of the shit they say to you all the time. They don't shut up, do they are a bitch then they say this bitch around

then i try to create a reverse a reversed character in my mind the caring one and i try to listen to his voice mine wouldn't be a man okay her voice or their voice it's just a strange choice i create a reverse character in my mind the caring one and i listen to their voice to consider which one is telling the truth and beyond that how do i personally feel about both of them so good because i really like that added bit about okay yeah i've got two people one of them's a critic one of them's being really nice and caring. Yeah, I can think like, okay, who's telling the truth? But then also I think thinking about it in the sense of who do I like more?

Like who's giving me a better vibe? Probably not the critic. Which one would I hang out with? Well, at the moment you're choosing to sit down and eat your fucking dinner, play a little Animal Crossing, watch your TV, go meet your friends, all with this fucking absolute nasty guy in your head. Yeah who do i want to be more aligned with who would i want

my thoughts to be reflective of not a fucking arsehole yeah living in my head i don't identify i like that then you get to kind of zoom out even further and kind of observe both of the things and be like what am i gonna take from that i think that's really yeah because almost like yeah the the standard thing that you'd think is now reverse the thoughts and try and have those thoughts more but it's like actually you've got it reversed you've got it there you've got it laid out it's kind of easier to imagine someone else saying nice things about you than it is it doesn't feel as genuine coming from you it's almost like i can go through the motions of i want to put all these things on my mirror that say you are beautiful you have an amazing smile i am powerful do you know i mean like all of these things i can go through the motions of

it for sure i'm sure there'll be some positive impact but also i think it is easier to have an image in your mind of a critic and then essentially all the things you would say to a friend because you're so easily able to if you the third party, you can so easily not only see things clearer, but also see all of the amazing things about someone. So I think it just almost feels more realistic to me for it to not come from myself and to come from someone else. Again, because I don't think that my own thoughts are valid and I trust everyone else too much do you get what i mean literally entirely i love that so much it's good isn't it i literally love that i just think that is so because also it's a thing about who do you believe and who do you want to believe like it's not just okay so if it so we know that we all have fucking negative thoughts in our head we've got a little demon in

one corner going you're so ugly you're so stupid everyone's laughing at you blah blah blah blah we know that like some of that's not real so then the instinct some of that is not real i think that's better oh totally well it's kind of i i think it's also like if you were being objective the one going you're so beautiful you're so talented you're so funny you're so maybe not everything they say is real but i can be objective here and be like okay so if these we've got the epitome of negative and the epitome of positive i'm probably somewhere in the middle and i'm happy to sit in that place because that's still higher than the one i was believing before and also everyone is fucking in the middle of that i don't know anyone that is fucking perfect i don't know anyone that is solely shit i know everyone to be a weird

amalgamation of shit and good and i'm happy to fucking be that because i'm human but i don't need these voices telling me you're ugly you're perfect actually just as you are it's like actually maybe i'm not i don't trust you guys i don't trust either of you but the amalgamation of you two i mean i'd rather get rid of little shitter in the corner but some reason he's not fucking going so i'm happy to i'm happy to sit in the middle of um i'm happy to take bits of both yeah i'm fine yeah it's fine it is fine i think that's also the thing and i know you were saying this recently on the podcast about putting things into perspective and kind of um acknowledging that in reality none of it matters

so for example what I'm going through at the moment of like god we could what if um I have not done enough or what if I have not um taken on the responsibility of creating much as I should have and what if me and Sefi put out something that's really bad and everyone hates us and blah blah blah it would be absolutely horrible but also one day we would die and then no one would care and there is kind of an end to your deepest darkest shit i remember i said that before like it's almost it's also kind of fear of a name only increases fear of the thing itself yeah but it's almost the fear also kind of fear of a name only increases the fear of the thing itself yeah but it's almost the fear of the thing often is worse than the reality of the thing like i've seen people who fuck me like i would for example like who's someone who's been cancelled or something

like louis ck yeah or even like who's back and he's back he's won a freaking grammy yeah all right let's say louis ck still in in the grand scheme of things fucking thriving whether or not you think that is right or not i'm sure louis ck like occasionally thinks like look he's he's probably sleeping at night fine to be honest oh he's fine i'm sure he's probably fine but like there are some people who people don people you go through shit don't you and you know what you just deal with it and the earth just continues to spin do you know what i mean it's almost like the worst thing could sometimes your worst fears can come true and then you know what happens you just you get through it but how many times has that happened where it's like exactly that's what

i was just gonna say the thing i've been scared i've been scared i've been scared i've been scared of this thing happening the thing happens it's fucking horrible you deal with it it's fucking horrible and then the weeks pass the weeks keep passing and before you know it you're going to get ice cream again it's like okay life is life goes through fucking seasons. I had ice cream the other day. You had an ice cream, yeah, this summer. Yeah, I had one. What did I get? It was really good. Oh, it was mint chocolate chip. Oh, like from an ice cream shop.

It was from Boho Gelato, yeah. Oh, yum. I haven't been to an ice cream shop. Yeah. I've only been to an ice cream van. Oh, nice. That's really fun. I haven't been to an ice cream van in a while do you just got mint chocolate chip

mint chocolate chip on a chocolate cone what did the with a chocolate cone oh yeah guys that's saying changes the game i think it might i think they've upped their prices really yeah because i bought two not just for me and it was nine pounds with one scoop i got one scoop actually the other one had two maybe that's why anywho because we got the two scoops when i was last getting boho gelato with you we both obviously got the chocolate cone but then we got two scoops and remember i had to give mine to ozzy and ozzy was lapping up my ice cream why did you give it to ozzy because i couldn't i think i made a mistake with the flavoring the choice i i got like i think it was like birthday cake or something at the top no and then it was like peanut butter

or something i just like didn't really want the peanut butter too sickly it was just too much for me um i just wanted like chocolate or something instead but i fucked it up and then ozzy was eating my ice cream and i've got a really cute picture from the beach oh yeah i did see that the other day actually does that make me sound gross does that make it sound like i've nibbled it after him but i wanted the cone the choccy the choccy cone but i didn't really want the peanut butter so i think i needed to get rid of it but i don't think i would have let ozzy lick the ice cream no no definitely i don't think i would have let you let him i don't think that happened but then i definitely would not have sacrificed the chocolate cone. You finished off the cone, did you? Yeah, and I wouldn't,

also I wouldn't be letting him eat a chocolate cone. So I must have nibbled around the cone with the ice cream still in there. That's a real mystery. I know we have photo evidence of this, as I remember it. It went on the story. Yeah, I'm going to have to find that.

I reckon it's going to be a really nibbled cone. Nibbled by you? Ozzy has no teeth. I think I've nibbled around the cone to get the chocolate cone no no he's done no nibbling but i'm wondering how he how i've nibbled on a cone when there's ice cream around it yeah what's he what's he licking up then he's licking the peanut butter ice cream but not from the cone no he is from the cone he's licking it from the cone in the photo

so i'm worried that i let a dog lick my cone and then ate the cone no definitely not definitely i really wouldn't put it past me no we wouldn't have done that no no definitely not definitely not because also at the time ozzy still had his teeth he's literally got probably two teeth like he's got two at the front left one big one one tiny one and his breath is amazing i've never known a dog with better breath oh i thought you're gonna say his rank really it used to be bad i know no one cares so so far in this episode i've essentially like dumped a load of my brain onto everyone and then be like my dog used to have really bad breath um but he used to have real dog breath and then since he had his last um surgery moment his breath is honestly amazing i mean people come

to stay the other literally like yesterday or whatever and he's doing the classic thing where he licks your hand yeah and blah blah blah and my friend licked her hand and was like it does not smell at all like there is she what she didn't lick her hand sorry sorry sorry no she's she smelled her hand where he had licked because i'm always like ozzy stop like that's people don't necessarily want that from you sorry um because he really goes to town doesn't he lickage i mean my dog's really licky as well so i love a licky dog oh okay because it's just like friendly yeah well anyway he got complimented on his breath ozzy doesn't really like me that much he does like you uh you there's a lot of fear there's a there's a lot of tension in your relationship at the moment i think it's because when i first met ozzy which actually wasn't that

long ago no it wasn't i wasn't that long ago at all and i came in with all the confidence in the world i went straight for his belly hey ozzy hi but this is what he gets so excited to see people he rolls right over he's like yep rub my belly everything yeah let me lick you but then he snapped then he snapped and it's never been the same yeah you must have gone somewhere that he didn't he's he's i think i yeah i just went too crazy on him yeah um so there's a tense relationship now but i'm but now there's fear from you and i'm always like smack his butt like do the things that he likes that he loves getting his bum smacked he loves it and now i smack his butt and he likes it but yeah but i'm scared to go near his belly again all right but now he's got no teeth i'm happy okay i can't wait to see i can

go and go it did make me so happy when you met him. It was really like the cutest. I've got pictures of you when you first met him and he's right with his belly up laying right next to you and you're rubbing his belly in it. It kind of makes me cry. It's kind of like if I had a baby seeing you. You know when you see your husband with your child

and it's like your ovaries kind of swell. That's the feeling i get when i see you with my dog well it's because i came in with like i'm the dog whisperer here like i've got this he was loving it he was loving and then then it all changed he doesn't he definitely likes you i think he's not personal yeah yeah i think he likes me i just need to give him more attention i think now okay yeah i would love that um self-doubt oh someone said i quite like this one they said get curious i wonder what will happen if i try to do this that's in speech marks it's almost like yeah like okay so if i'm feeling shit i'm like it's like did nike send that it's really like branded isn't it get curious with our new with our new merchandise coming like it feels really i'm always thinking it's

jonathan van ness his thing isn't his podcast called um getting curious yeah it's really branded i think it's a show on netflix called that as well actually is it it's okay not to know you know that marcus rashford the google advert i know the thing but I can't place it it's Google it's actually I actually think it's a great campaign that they've done it's Google and they're like saying like it's okay to ask it's okay if you don't know and it's all these things that across like culture and gender and sexuality it's just quite fun so good I'm sure there's a ton of criticism on it and that might not be the right thing to say but i think it's cool yeah go on sorry get curious well i just quite like that it's almost like so you're feeling shit you think i can't do the thing what i want what did they i wonder what

will happen let me see again yeah i wonder what will happen if i try to do this oh that's nice okay so i'm feeling self-doubty i'm trying to put an outfit on whatever i'm trying to do wonder what will i wonder what will happen if i try to do this you know what i like about that it really lowers the stakes yeah by saying i wonder what will happen it almost implies that something amazing could happen something amazing could happen and also you're just wondering it's not like god you know what will happen if i try yeah it's like i wonder i'm actually enjoying wondering let us just take a moment to wonder shall we shall we wonder because also when it comes to me and it sounds quite nice like often

in self-doubt i feel like it can become quite binary of like it either goes well or it's fucked or like it's either usually okay or absolutely fucking pits of despair you're burning in hell awful and that gives you more options almost like i wonder what will happen it's almost like wait there's options there's like room to explore there's options here like what there could be 10 different potential outcomes of this i know it's just a thing someone wrote but i quite like that like i wonder what would happen is i haven't even thought of it it's beyond my comprehension what could happen right now i wonder what could happen if i try that's nice like i could i i'm too like i saw a thing the other day someone saying they're

anxious to sit in coffee shops and i use and i that's not something i'm anxious about but i could really imagine being anxious about that when i was younger like i don't think i ever was but like i could really imagine that fear and it's almost like imagine you're about to go into a coffee shop but you can't you're too scared you just know i'll just work at home whatever i want to do it's like wait i wonder what could happen if i try to go it's like yeah you might not even make it through the door you might not even make it but you're gonna try like i wonder what happened on the way to the fucking coffee shop you could walk past an amazing fucking poster that says gig on tonight oh my god you happen to play guitar you end up rocking on the stage all night oh wow you don't know what's

gonna fucking happen oh my god you're amazing whole new story you didn't even know it yeah that's i mean that's stunning what would you because i also feel like in that there's so many as you say like you might not even get through the door for example if you are self-doubting and you're going through a thing of like i don't know if i can go and work in a coffee shop let's give some real tangible actions i think because okay because i almost feel like my instinct there is to be like well as you say like congratulate yourself for even like doing your hair brushing your hair in preparation to leave the house like let's really break it down because i almost feel like if you're at that point where it's like i do not feel like i can go and sit and work in a coffee shop right now

i would imagine that you are not really in the habit of congratulating yourself on the small things that you're achieving that's really nice yeah i see that i think the only tips i have for things like that the only thing that i live by with like self doubt and anxiety and all of the fucking shit is just do it like i literally think that that it is the most fucking painful thing like it is so horrid you're gonna feel sick you're gonna not be able to eat or whatever the fuck the symptoms are for you but i think the only option i have and the only thing that actually works for me if i want to live a fun life and this thing's getting in the way of it you have to go you have to do it like it's just go through the fucking shit whatever you need to

do if you need to i always have um used to have like a fun thing planned after the thing i was stressed for i was just about to say i've got something yeah or like something to think about during it like if i had if i had just come away from a fun thing and i was like what going on my way it would be better if i was going somewhere after it but i think the the only, if you want your life to be ruled by fucking self-doubt, join the masses. It's fine. It's expected, it's fine. But if you don't,

the only thing you can do is do the things, even though they're fucking painful, that scare you. I agree. I feel like as well, like something that I always say and something I think is so helpful is in terms of like just

doing it is tucking it into a load of other shit that you have to do that you feel like you can do or you might even this would be ideal you might even be excited to do all of the other shit that you've planned and you've just tucked in this oh and you know in in the morning i'm seeing sephie and then in the afternoon i'm seeing wing which i'm not looking forward to as much and then in the middle i'm just going to shove in a couple of hours at the coffee shop where i'm going to sit and get my work done and then it almost becomes a lot easier because if you were doing nothing and then it's like 5 p.m i need to go and i'm going to get to the coffee shop and blah blah you're psyching yourself in and out all day can i do it can i do it no i can't you get dressed you go have another shower oh i can't do it blah blah blah stress you

have a cry you build yourself back up oh you break down again yeah whereas if you'd gone to meet sephie in the morning i can almost guarantee you would have walked past the coffee shop on your way home and just popped in and even if you just had one you just got a tea and you just sat there half an hour even and you got back out and then the next time you want to go now you've done it so it's do you know what i mean it's like kind of just slot just sneak it in there just sneak it in the back of something and also it's like you're probably still going to feel sick at the breakfast with me whatever we're doing we'd love to go we'd love it if you were there too to be honest that's amazing um dream day you're

probably going to feel fucking sick you're probably not going to be having a great time because you've got this thing in the back of your mind you've got stephanie wing crying to you in the podcast yeah you've got all sorts of fucking mess it's a mess but i think my um lesson for myself is so say i've done the option where i've gone for breakfast but i'm feeling sick the whole time i've tucked it in and it's all kind of as safe as possible for me or if i do the version where i didn't sleep and i'm crying i'm crying my makeup's a mess i look fucking like shit i have i just want to sleep for me i still need to go and i still need to i'm gonna have a breakdown in the bathroom there but i still need to go like it's have a breakdown in the bathroom there, but I still need to go. Like, it's just whatever. Like, I think, and I don't recommend that for, I don't know if I recommend that at all.

But I genuinely think for me, it's like. It's giving me an agoraphobic vibe. But I think that's it. It's almost like, even if you're so anxious that you're going to go bright red in the meeting, go to the meeting and go bright red in the meeting. For sure. For sure. go bright red in the meeting go to the meeting and go bright red in the meeting for sure for sure i think um definitely doing it is almost like then once you've done it you you'll be looking forward to doing it again for example hopefully or it just won't be it's almost like oh i can see myself doing that now so i know that it's something that i can do but definitely if i haven't for me personally if i haven't slept and i'm really feeling bad

um in sometimes you just know if it's on like another level i think if it's out of self-doubt though because that's what i mean by like if you're tired and shit like that there's reason there's reasons you just got a fucking text that threw you whatever it is yeah yeah yeah no absolutely it's about just judging the how you feel for sure because i don't want to be i don't want to be in the coffee shop and then i'm crying in the coffee shop and then it's like yeah i'm never coming back here now because i need to run home do you know what i mean you know when you're in situations and you can't escape and it's like oh you yeah it's bad i think for me it's about looking at motivation of like if i if i can identify that my motivation is like out of um self-hatred it's like

no no you're going you're going like for sure for sure um but if it's out of um self-hatred it's like no no you're going you're going like for sure for sure but if it's out of um the multiple different reasons in the world yeah yeah yeah right off yeah i also think pressure off in life look for sure kind of knowing when to when you need comfort and when you need like discipline to push yourself i was gonna say discipline but i also think you do need to be disciplined in comfort as well comfort's the hardest thing exactly you have to be disciplined about making sure that you relax every once in a while yeah so when i say discipline i don't just mean yeah i want you up at 5 a.m reporting on service at 7 wing i never mean that no i never mean discipline in the sense of catch yourself when you've been scrolling for 45 minutes and

think oh i'm doing the thing that i don't like and i'm gonna be really regimented in myself and make myself stop which is just a skill it's just a muscle that you build over time it's just like if the feelings around self-doubt are self-hatred general shitness and kind of like um fear of rejection yeah then let's counter that with a little bit of kindness and yes sometimes the kindness you need is to be like i want to be the kind of person that can sit in a coffee shop so i think i need to go to a coffee shop with a friend even right now i need to go exactly yes find like easier like um ways that you can make this a reality can't go to an indie coffee shop i can go to go to Pret. Exactly, yeah.

Not every day diving with the sharks. Some days just like swimming in the baby pool. But yeah, counter it with just like a little bit of kindness towards yourself. But that's so it. That's the end of it. That's the crux. Love it.

It's taken us about 50 minutes to find the crux. God, we've nailed it. Meaning of life, done. Done. Now we just need to put that into action. Shall we? Let's go. All right.

I'm hoping by the time this episode comes out, everything's gone well and I just sound like off my knack and it was all, you know, it was all just silly. There's like an article, tiny podcasts, merch fails.

No. Oh my God, don't, don't, don't, tiny podcasts, merch fails. No. Scam alert. Don't, don't, don't, don't, don't. World's worst podcasters, merch. Stop it, stop it. Whoa. We're getting a lawsuit through. That's what I'm scared.

I'm scared of like, yeah, we're in the Guardian. World's shittest merch, Sefi and Wing. Oh no. Just a picture, mug shots. CEOs of shitty little thing. what do we i love how we literally jump to like we're doing illegal actions from just like trying to do a nice thing i'm really scared jesus christ cool well if you don't hear from us then truly assume the worst