Goes Without Saying - "soft girl" paradox: babe wake up new "era" just dropped

Episode Date: July 9, 2023

the 1950s housewife walked so the 'soft girl era' could run...join the conversation every monday.shop our merch: sephyandwing.co.ukspeak your mind on the @sephyandwing instagram. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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The animal kingdom is queer and we are a part. Find a field guide to gay animals on Spotify, Apple. Or wherever you get your podcasts. ACAST helps creators launch, grow, and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast.com It goes without saying you're listening to Goes Without Saying with Sefi and Wing. I'm Sefi. And I'm Wing. And this episode is all about tuning into the softness within us all and rejecting,

maybe rejecting, but also kind of embracing a hardness of us all as well put it beautifully i couldn't have put it better myself said no one if one of your friends has sent you this episode it might be because they're telling you to chill the hell out just take a chill pill relax have some fun have a laugh love yourself do all the things you're supposed to do in this life divine stick around at the end we do a really weird joke right at the end but that's the reason why we've been laughing through this whole intro because it's the funniest thing i've ever heard in my life it's just it's the best joke you've ever just do such a bit at the end if anything just skip to the 50 minute right have fun no not have fun what do we say enjoy there bye

fuck worst intro of all time wow fun really fun a nice clean game from all of you this one's gonna be i'm excited for this me too which almost seems like it's just part of the fucking intro now to be like wow i'm excited for this i know but i i mean it's an honor it's an honor it's truly an honor i can't deny i can't say who would i be to deny it almost like what i'm gonna come to the podcast casual hey we're going straight in it's like nonchalant i have to absolutely honor this space i'm so excited absolutely give her flowers give her credit where she's due um how are you i'm good i'm in margay at the moment i'm staying at my sister's do you know

what i realized the other day i think i realized this yesterday for this month i have only spent four nights in my own bed i was actually thinking this about you this morning just just you know every morning i think about you every every now and then yeah and i was thinking this morning are you feeling good now that you're at homeless a little bit oh i don't know i mean i think i'm gonna go home tomorrow and i'm quite excited just to like get in my own bed in your own bed like i only had four nights no i think i've had six including the two nights on your sofa bed or in my like not sharing a bed with someone oh god well that's i know i don't think you can count sleeping on my sofa which is a sofa bed but still sleeping on my sofa bed as like a comfortable night in your

own space that's like oh there's no one else i mean i do my best but the most comfortable of all time but like there's no one else snoring next to me or like talking in their sleep and shit like i've only had four nights in my own bed with my own duvet in your own company no that's a lot isn't it mad like i i was yeah i was saying to my sister i was like i'm just overwhelmed at the moment she was like yeah well you actually haven't stopped for a month like physically like you've been like you've had all your shit packed into a little bag go go going so i am really excited for like just a few nights i think you need that big shift of energy though yeah Yeah I really did,

like I am loving being at home, also I've written, I don't know if I've said this on Instagram but basically I'm gonna start a newsletter which I'm really excited for where I'm just gonna basically share just almost like an online diary, just like my thoughts, my writing and I've written a whole piece about like home and everything like that, I think that's gonna be my first one and I'm really excited, I feel like that really sums up my thoughts at the moment about like how i feel about being at home and everything like that which i'm quite excited about but i'm just excited about that in general yeah i feel like you're in a better place than you were like even a month ago yeah no definitely i feel like i've got some clarity on life on loads of stuff but then also i feel like i'm all i don't know the kind of life

that i want to live is almost like quite a messy scrappy chaotic life in loads of ways but also i do feel like i'm starting to love the stability of like i don't know it will be nice to like have my own be in my own shower have my own products again like all of that sort of stuff i'm excited for that again like have my entire wardrobe at my um disposal yeah i think there's like a almost as well like luxuriousness to that like to be able to like have your own space and like have it how you want it and it has all your things there like it's not even just comfortable and stable it's also like oh indulgent like it's just divine well this is what i was thinking i was like i can't wait to like i have been getting into yoga again in the last like few days but i was like oh my god i haven't heard you say that

in ages it's so nice and then i was like when i'm at home i can really get into like do like long sessions of yoga not on a towel i've been doing them on like a fucking towel um it's like oh my yoga mat like everything like that it's like oh my god i'm excited just to be at home for a bit god you're seeming like a whole new gal really yeah give me two days and i'm gonna be like get me out of the place but you know yeah but just i think it's there was like a discomfort for a for a while there was like an itch there is but there is a discomfort like there is a huge discomfort around oh do you know what read my post when it goes out read my little writing because it says it all like i can't otherwise i'm just literally saying a shitter version of stuff i've already um how are you feeling you're feeling ill i'm yeah i was

gonna say i'm feeling great but i am also feeling ill but i'm fine um i'm in recovery i'm recovering now it was just a little flu situation but kind of in the similar sense of like what you were saying about um being really really busy and then having to stop just been really intentional and like just taking some time i mean i literally just had like one day to myself which is kind of unheard of for me because i don't know like i feel like i used to need a lot more time on my own or like it used to when i was feeling so down it wouldn't be not difficult but like i wouldn't blink at like having like three four days to myself etc whereas now it's like after an hour of being awake i'm like where am i going what am i doing who am i seeing like what's going on sort of thing i'm starting to get like um

i get quite itchy to like get out and about which is nice i'm feeling the excitement of like having some serotonin for once yeah but it's also been nice to be ill and like not hate myself for it so it's fine but my voice is a bit ugly right now but you know it sounds divine it sounds absolutely divine as always thank you should we get straight in yeah i'm also just quickly i'm excited for you to be better because i'm thinking let's go um swimming next week are you sat yeah are you i'm thinking next week i'm there i'm not gonna lie i was swimming the other day i'm saying my behind did i have people maybe i swam this morning i'm swimming every day of my life these days divine but i want to swim with you me too

me too also my phone's really buzzing so i'm gonna move it oh you know what i am loving just last thing no no no no we don't have time for this nonsense go on i'm loving is actually like gonna get me expelled from the space like i feel like everyone's for this nonsense go on i'm loving is actually like gonna get me expelled from the space like i feel like everyone's gonna rather rise at me i'm loving threads are you loving threads the instagram twitter threads we were aware we were aware of threads loving threads so go on what are you loving about threads i'm loving just seeing what almost like the little people are up to and like just like putting out random things i haven't used twitter in years like in in a in a tweeting way in a tweeting sense i've been lurking non-stop yeah yeah but

i'm actively threading i'm posting thread i need to thread it up a bit maybe you don't follow me no i don't follow anyone yeah that's probably why i don't think i think i've opened it once or maybe i've opened it like three times i opened it and i didn't click follow everyone already i was like just a blank slate i was wondering where these followers were coming from they click they're coming from instagram i see so it's anyone who follows you on instagram is following you on thread got it got it because i was really like quite confused of like yeah just always things like sussex university followed me i was like hello i'm not gonna lie whenever i see them i just it kind of gives me butterflies well i was i didn't really hate you it's been a while

i didn't realize that was an option i was like sussex university what like what the hell are you doing it's not personal they don't care about us no it's so sad um we mean nothing to them no but they mean everything to us but they mean everything everything right should we just get in sorry i'm wasting everyone's time do you want to start or should i um i don't mind we're talking about softness today like kind of the soft girl idea which has been we've had quite a mixed response to actually and i feel like it's because people aren't on the same page about what it means maybe like i feel like maybe that term has a few different definitions which i don't know what they are so i can't help you but well i quite maybe you could introduce us to the idea of

softness through keen ears will recognize your new year's resolutions oh well i don't mind at all should we bring that back also sorry i'm just gonna interrupt the last time i think this episode was also kind of off the back of the last one which if you haven't heard there was like a kind of um a brief interruption we cut we came back there were tears it was it was a great time oh it was a great time which and we know oh sorry i definitely been feeling i had a bit of a nervousness actually not even a bit i had a lot of a nervousness about the episode like i still haven't heard um what the fuck i said in that episode which in my memory is nothing bad i think i'm just shitting all over pop culture taking shit shit shit shit shit taking pops at all the stars i'm saying this is shit uh talk about social media blah blah as i do and then i came back and

i was like i was just too hard in that i don't know why like and then we were laughing and it's funny yeah i definitely did have a bit of a just a fear of like i don't know i wrote a thing on the instagram as well just being like it is really hard to allow like a version of yourself that you're not that you don't like that much just a harshness to be like a public thing and be like oh we'll leave that in yeah i know that most i don't know i feel like a lot of people will listen to that and be like oh we'll leave that in yeah i know that most i don't know i feel like a lot of people will have listened to that and be like oh it's literally nothing or some people might listen and be like fucking cunt but i also think it it does feel uncomfortable and kind of like oh it feels silly almost to be like oh you said some things that you don't really like and you don't really agree with even and you're just gonna leave that in and then you'll

be like stop the episode stop the episode so i definitely have felt a bit nervous about it but i also think it's really important and also a step in the right direction to leave in bits of us that we kind of don't really like that much or just basically show a whole version of ourselves rather than the thing that i find uncomfortable about social media is this idea of like presenting a perfection, a perfect image. Like, yeah, that's the bit that I find stressful. So I actually think it feels way more aligned to do that and way more comfortable, even though it is uncomfortable at the same time. Sometimes, and I don't think this was in the episode, I think we'd stop recording by then, cut the cameras. stop recording by then cut the cameras but i think i was saying to you like sometimes i feel like i have to almost um i think it's something we do a lot is like pull us pull one another kind of back

to like recognizing what we actually believe in rather than like whatever the insecurity or just like random shittiness is making us just bad mood almost it's like also this is one of the things i've learned it's like if you put a camera not camera a microphone in front of someone for an hour so weird things come out and almost week after week or and i know you think that you wouldn't but you would you would no no you fucking would this is the crazy lesson yeah and this is actually why i don't really judge anyone on the internet because i do now realize it's like right okay if i let anyone speak and just said okay here's a topic speak on it god the crazy things that come out yeah like you're gonna say things that you disagree with

and also then i find it so funny as well as what we were saying in the aftermath of me crying and being like i disagree with myself it's like it's such a tiny thing like you disagree with your thoughts on pop culture you disagree with what you just said about pop culture and you disagree with how you handled it big deal it's not a big deal but like the the fact that it feels so deep to say an opinion on the internet is one of the problems with the internet that everything you say is then gospel of like they believe that that is their final thoughts on this thing it's like that's one of the issues so i quite like the fact yeah even though it kind of feels a bit icky as well that there are there's a there's 10 minutes of an episode where i say something i don't really like

it's like and i changed my mind and also kind of fitting into the idea of what you're saying about like viewing social media as a place where everyone puts out this perfect ideal and then to kind of project onto what you were saying and the episode and all of that as like oh well that can't go out because i haven't been the ideal yeah it just becomes this like really ugly cycle it's horrible literally we'll find whatever we can to make ourselves feel bad yeah yeah i just find it interesting so basically that that was um a topic i guess from that last episode there was an idea of like i don't like the hard version of myself there's a harshness like that's something that i'm trying to move

away from like just almost like she's the cringe the cringe i don't know why it's like oh god no i would never say cringe the cringe noinch. No, truly the Grinch. She's a mean one. Oh God, it's horrible. I'm sorry, I don't know why I said that. Her heart was two sizes too small. Oh no. No, it's no, 100%. But I think also why I dislike that is because I do feel naturally like a warm person,

a nice, warm, cozy person. But sometimes I think out of habit and almost an idea of like being a strong woman maybe I step into like a harshness um which I really dislike and it doesn't feel good and it doesn't feel aligned or any of those things and it's just almost maybe a defense mechanism slash definitely a defense mechanism um so my new year's resolution was to be softer or to be soft with myself and others so just to basically be kinder be nicer to myself and whenever people fuck up give them that same kind of grace or more to be honest i find it easier to be softer with others and then i feel like i want to give myself that same grace that i would

give to other who doesn't literally who doesn't that's the hard bit surely the hard bit is yourself it truly is so yeah i think that's what it means to us well that's what it means to me anyway it's just like an idea of softness is an idea of just like there's a lot of people said like oh it makes me feel passive or weak it's like no no no i mean it purely from a strength perspective of like stripping way back to like basically just being fucking nice and like almost aligning with your core not projecting this like horrible um kind of um abrasive and just like cutting side of yourself and also kind of insecure yeah yeah it's like i think as well okay so actually let me pull up a

little thing thanks for all your responses by the way guys you're now being anonymously featured in the upcoming episode yeah somebody said i think we need to stop calling things eras as if we're not always changing why does our identity have to be tied to aesthetics all the time and it's definitely yeah 100 it goes out saying that we change our minds like i don't even know if we necessarily make our minds as much as we change them i mean honestly it also it's like have you ever there are very rare points where i'm like those are my definitive thoughts on that topic on that yeah concluded yeah age 26 don't need to come back on that that's done and dusted god i'm knackered time for bed absolutely not like just no so i agree with what that person said i think it's completely fluid and i think that's kind of the crux of every episode on here is us kind of being different people in every like two minute

chunk but i also think kind of what you're saying of it depends like what meaning we want to draw from this kind of concept yeah and if and and also kind of something i've said a million times it's like know when to push like yeah know what to question and know what to just go along with to make your life easier that's not to be like oh yeah go and join the nazi regime just to make your life easier but like if someone got that from what you're saying it's like i think you never know on this internet you actually never know that's a great what people might you were telling me to go join the nazi regime where do you find those guys these days i was kind of picturing us in the 30s and 40s oh got it got it anyway i don't know why i was picturing

that do you see what i mean like all of a sudden you've said something yeah um but for my own well-being i will draw from the idea of the soft girl era i'm not necessarily using the word era in my own life as anything more than like a joke between girls on the internet totally um i don't know if i feel i definitely don't feel like anything i do is like in chapters and like i just don't think life is that neat for me personally like i can't tie it up and be like that was my blah blah era that was my chapter not really i think everything is quite um is nothing is linear everything is impermanent like i just almost think you could tie it into chapters of like that's when i lived in putney that's when i lived in yeah wherever but i just think what does that tell you apart from like okay you were between the ages of 23

to 24 and you lived in this house i think like everything draws on like a much broader span than like really neat boxes however there was an interesting um kind of like discourse online along with the soft girl era i've seen people talk about like ah this i'm in season two this is season two of my life sort of thing i've seen a hell of a lot and again i think the idea is that it's light-hearted i don't think anyone is like writing this as like holy scripture of like your this is an era it's it's finite like blah blah do you know what i mean i don't think it has to be um definitive yeah but when we do find these like silly little things yeah i guess it's a shame that it's like tied to an aesthetic and we can kind of perform it for the people around us and for social media etc

but if we can find those like little fragments of like useful shit to help us through our day today i will absolutely take what i can get absolutely and also i would much rather jump into the random girl who created who first said oh this is my blah blah season this is my era yeah i'd rather follow her than kind of the things that we take for granted like for example new year's resolutions 100 also you're putting your own time frame on it that's why it was surprising me actually when you were saying that you don't feel like there are chapters and stuff not for me but that surprises me because i feel like you're someone that um well as a kind of talk about last episode of like you place meaning on an old dirty shoe like so i'm surprised that you could put um you wouldn't be putting your life into oh that was my chapter of this that's what but also i completely agree with you that

um also i actually don't have any issue with the idea of chapters i actually really like that it's just when it becomes um sort of gospel to yourself and you can then like self pathologize is that a word and like come up with this narrative of like you're basically rewriting history a little bit because you're probably dealing with the same issues in season seven as you were in season two but almost because you've wrapped yourself up into these chapter ideas it's like well by the end of season two i must have come to a conclusion blah blah blah it's like well really you're probably going to be dealing with the same old shit in um when you're like 85 as you were when you're 17 in loads of ways same old shit stuff doesn't really change in that in these big ways i think as well i think because sometimes we're learning

like a handful of lessons over the span of like touchwood like 80 90 100 years yeah um and kind of ascribing meaning to a dirty old shoe yeah i think it's that i described too much meaning it literally physically couldn't fit into a single chapter do you know i mean it would have to be like oh this is volume one of like 5 000 books on when i was 21 it's just also i have like a bit of a thing with well like i have a bit of a thing with perfection i have a thing with perfection such a stupid thing to say but like i have a bit of a thing with perfection so like if it doesn't fit neatly into a box cut that it's not gonna work like we'll have to find something well it doesn't work it's just not neat also i feel like that was one of my problems when i started seeing the season two thing just again in that kind of i guess kind of

the perfectionist way of like oh but it doesn't really fit because it's like make it make sense you can't start your season two at um 25 because then what then season two then last until you're 50 because that doesn't really work for me it's like season three is only coming along like these years don't make sense it's like realistically like just almost like the maths wasn't adding for me so that's what kind of it's like i can't be putting these chapters on because i'll take it too seriously and be like but wait i'm on actually season i'm actually on season seven like i was at nursery primary school like that holiday is maybe a fun little two episode thing like um christmas special came out definitely i can't get into this because i will take it um far too far kind of the crossover

episode it's the sweet life of Hannah Montana exactly exactly the sweet love okay so on that note if you had to what would you call this chapter oh it's my year of fun is that is that what you're in right now yes that was again my my my beginning of the year thing which I don't even know if I love splitting the year in two that's my beginning of the year january can i be honest again i was thinking of you recently i was thinking about your year of fun and i was thinking about for example like a month ago and i was thinking god that isn't year of fun like no but i don't but there's no bit of me that has to have year of fun the whole year being amazing that's what i mean yeah ridiculous like yeah there's gonna be some down times in the year of fun but also if i think about this year um in comparison to the

last three years that i've had i i'm not even going to measure it in terms of fun maybe but in terms of freedom god i've had a hell of a lot more this year like i have been to a new country every single month this year so far which is absolutely i mean that was not how i was living in the last three years i was in the same city for the whole time really london but like i have i actually feel like it's been a year of freedom but yeah and also of exploring and also of um really allowing myself to do new just do completely new random things like what i'm trying to do is not do the things that make the most sense i'm trying to do things that like whatever comes to me so true um i'm following if i want to follow it and just almost trusting the path a little bit

more rather than being like right well i want to move to this place or I want to see that person on this day like I'm really just trying to um go with the flow and also the places it's taken me have been so unexpected and the things that have happened this year have been like in my mind um a year ago completely unfathomable so I think it's been actually more more of a year of freedom than a year of fun even though i have had a lot of fun i also feel like yeah i haven't been at water parks all year like i've been actually exploring more random places fingers by now you'd be in bits i think as well maybe the intention of to set the year of your year of fun has actually been beneficial in that it's not necessarily giving you necessarily like a clean year of fun but it's given you a year of so far freedom yeah

in the sense that maybe you wouldn't have had the like relaxed kind of um attitude towards your life if you'd gone in with a different almost like if you'd gone in of like this is my year of freedom that could also be too prescriptive yeah so like just going in with my year of fun is almost like oh well fun in any form yeah i guess i'll just wait and see sort of thing also i feel like that's my life purpose like my life one of my if i say i have three core um priorities in my life for example let's say let's see what i mean about the microphone it just draws random things random things let's say i have 17 three pillars of life god but like yes totally i'm all ears some priorities one of them is fun for sure it's up there so i don't

think it's like what year of fun it's like well to be real it's going to be next year and the next year and the next year like stunning every single day i feel like my priority is to have fun with it like so i don't think necessarily that i it's possible to even have one oh this is my year of fun it's like what so then next year is what a year of love like it's just like let's chill out with the things let's chill out with the narrative but i also do love it but i do feel like i've had a lot more freedom this year because i went in with that intention for sure why do you think fun is one of your priorities just quick question and what does fun mean to you just because and let me let me explain it's just lovely to hear and i think in the way that a softness can mean different things to

different people i also think a lot of people would their ears would kind of perk up a little bit they'd be like oh you're fun like fun is my priority interesting i think a lot of people wouldn't think of fun as their priority and so god that's that's sad i think yeah no i'm yeah so tell us more i'm not here i i don't know if i possibly can um sell you on fun if you're not already sold i don't know not to possibly can um sell you on fire if you're not already sold not to sell us but just tell it like what does it mean to you like why do you why is fun one of your priorities i guess maybe it's just obvious to you but do you know what i've actually never thought about it because i think it is so obvious like in the i think i was definitely raised in like quite a playful way and to like value oh shit someone's ringing on the doorbell do i let them in

it's not by the way this isn't my house guys i don't know what i'm doing there's a basically there's another house upstairs it's like is that for them is that for jimmy like i'm confused of who that's for well it doesn't look like you're opening the door i know but i'm i'm listening i'm listening to this here then walking up the stairs don't and get it if you want. I think it was a parcel. Is it in? I think I've done nothing. I think I just stayed sitting where I'm sitting. I think, no,

I think it was the people upstairs. Okay. ACAST powers the world's best podcasts. Here's a show that we recommend. Nature. I've got a gay rooster named Francois. Is so gay. These rams are gay.

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Find a field guide to gay animals on Spotify, Apple. Or wherever you get your podcasts. ACAST helps creators launch, grow, and monetize their podcasts everywhere a cast.com fun yeah i don't know if i can sell you on it i think i i just always think it's been important to me i don't even think i've necessarily always had the word fun for it but like it is something that i 100 prioritise in my life what does it mean to you let me really think it's hard it's actually a hard one isn't it i think it means laughing to be honest i think it actually means having a laughing time i actually feel having a hoot having a blast a lot of times i don't know there there are there have been a lot of times there's

a notable thing i've i've picked up on something people say to me people say a lot of crazy things to me but this is just one it's a nice thing yeah god they do say some crazy things but this is a good one this is a good one but like often when i um get oh there's two magpies outside. Joy. Joy. Joy. Joy. Two for joy. Joy. A lot of people have said to me, when I'll be like on the phone to someone or, yeah, usually when I'm on the phone to someone or like, for example, we could be recording or something like that, we'll be on the phone. Often when I lived with people, they would come out of, or like someone I'll have a friend around or

something or my sister or someone like that and people will be like god you were laughing a lot you were laughing so loud you're like that's so true I've never heard someone laugh so much sort of thing it's like I actually feel like laughter is such a huge priority yeah priority to me yeah like and it might be because we're a couple of comedians i have seen on google this podcast is seen as a comedy i think that's just because that's how i probably registered it on apple it just makes me laugh that's like underneath our comedians comedy podcast by us declared by us comedy it's comedy comedy 100 it's just a joke it's just one big joke but also i remember when i was like probably at 14 i was like it's my i wrote this down it's like it's my priority to laugh every day like every single day

i must have like a belly laugh like a huge huge laugh not a little giggle no not a little whatever and i remember um and i would do that like i had almost like a youtube thing that i would watch a funny thing every day like a chore no it was like right you haven't barely laughed all day like sit down and get your laughs in yeah no and i think a lot of people go through when was the last time you laughed that's yeah that's commiseration because do you not remember like well this was like a couple weeks ago i messaged you being like i haven't laughed in a week yeah you were like can you send me some voice notes with advice and also maybe tell some jokes because i haven't laughed in a week and i was like this was after my holiday fuck that actually and i said to you after i was like

that was the thing sephie it's almost like sometimes it's hard to know what you mean as well sometimes sephie says things and you have to kind of read between the lines of like is that hyperbolic for comedian effect no but genuinely sometimes you say things and i think you know she's trying to get a laugh out of me there or is she genuinely coming from a place of despair like yeah should the alarm bells ringing let the bells ring and when you said i was kind of like oh i think she's okay like you know there are ups and downs whatever like such as life sort of thing then when you said i haven't laughed in a week i thought oh god but she's really serious and also what i'm now that's always a safe word it's like oh fuck yeah she's not okay no because also what i mean

by i haven't laughed in a week is not oh i haven't had the little polite like there've been little funny things but you i do think that actually i'm really dying after the point where it's like like the other day i was laughing so much and i was like i had to go to i think i'm gonna be sick yeah i do get into quite a state quite often yeah i need tears streaming down my face i want to be my makeup ruined yeah like belly is about to explode going to be sick laughing favorite feeling on the planet yeah but like i was like i haven't actually found anything funny like nothing funny has happened for a week which is not not for lack of trying as well not due to your own no no i've been finding myself i just want to make that clear there was one point oh am i gonna say this let me just double think i think

you should like big deal so what if he listens like no this was a rude this is a rude thing for him to say as well but i'm gonna say it so there was a point where i said something funny he said something funny as you do yeah and he laughed and i said it's just always like the way to kill a joke i said what bit of that did you find funny because i thought that's unexpected and he said am I gonna do the accent no no okay an American accent um well he knows I went on we'll do the accent then he said oh no I was just laughing at something that happened the other day you're kidding me you're kidding me you're laughing at something else in my face it's like want to let me in on the joke, mate? No, okay, don't worry.

Oh, God. Boys, boys, boys. Pretty crazy. That is pretty crazy. Yeah. Well, I'm glad to now know what fun means to you. It just means laughing. What's a priority to you?

Myself. What is one of you? If you had to do a pillar. Me. You have to give one of your three honestly like okay three grand pillars i can't do that no no one of i know but like i want to get i want to strive for perfection and give you the full three but i just can't yeah no no but just what's something that's important to you well i was saying me and that is true i feel like here we go again

i just i've cried i've no i've you know what i've absolutely smashed it like i thought liking yourself just wasn't almost realistic like surely when people talk like that like oh we're just built different like that's for them it's not for me like i think i'll be weeping until my dying day like that's something i can't understand just like feeling good enjoying my life i won't that isn't for me i have absolutely nailed it like i don't and i'm you know what i'm actually i'm gonna say i'm doing my best to figure out how so that i can feed back to you yeah and sell it to you in a pill um but like i would love to give you the info on what i did to like cure my life but i think at the moment just my own self like my my emotions my my enjoyment in life like my

health my opinions and like ideas and just things that i want to do and just myself it's just my priority for like maybe the first time my whole life probably apart from like when i was like a year old and i was just crying the whole time um but that's not even that's when it's not a priority to yourself it's like you're only really got no choice yeah like milk is like your life also i was born without hip sockets i don't know if i've told you guys this recently but fun fact you told me the funnest fact this is what fun means to me it actually is the fun fact while you were all making your hip sockets in your you know wherever you were being kept in your incubators and in your wombs i couldn't be bothered and i just like sat around doing nish all day twiddling my thumbs just fantasizing just coming up with like little funny

little stories about the other sperms and eggs that i've met along the way and then by the time i was born i was like oh shit i didn't actually make hip sockets so i was supposed to do that i missed the fucking deadline so i was very bendy and actually my boyfriend called someone an arsehole yesterday randomly as a joke and he my boyfriend called someone an arsehole yesterday randomly as a joke and he was like they were born arsehole first and then we kind of laughed because it was like i was actually born arsehole first i was born breech but i was born bum first i really am like that's quite funny you just see a big butt yeah i was born bum first and my my ankles were like right by my ears anyway literally no one cares jesus christ bendy girl bendy wendy kind of mrs incredible elastigirl yeah um and then i had to make hip

sockets boring um what you so you did that out of the womb yeah i did that in real life like on earth actually i guess babies do do that because it's that thing of like babies are born with like 200 bones or something and then they have to fuse them into like sometimes yeah but you are supposed to be born with hip sockets so like you know you have a socket on your hip so you can like move your hip forward well mine could go like full rotation like bending on themselves sort of thing it's quite bizarre but i used to cry in pain a lot i was also born on a wednesday so like wednesday's child is full of woe yeah i think wednesday's child is no wednesday's child is full of woe mr mike pie this is nothing but facts here yeah um so really i had no choice but to cry and since then

i haven't really thought much about myself i felt so bad about the hip socket thing that i just kind of denied my own existence for like 25 years and i finally caught up with liking myself and just like making an effort to enjoy my life um yeah i'm just kind of enjoying it i also think i'm at a point where in the kind of soft era i'm able to like kind of look back and appreciate just myself as a human and almost like the things that i thought i was going through out of like not being a good enough person or like not being able to just get on with it or like being lazy or like weird or like what's wrong with you sort of thing now i can see it as like oh no you were really like you were somebody who was dealing with really horrible things yeah and you're actually coping insanely well like

most people wouldn't cope like it's quite a testament actually to have coped in the way that you coped and still be here um and i also think beyond that beyond still being here i'm also like i'm actually like also kind like i'm not cold like it hasn't made me bitter and like mean and jaded it's it's i'm still nice and like funny and i'm still soft i still um a nice person to be around and i have good intentions for everyone and like the people around me and i think that is unfortunately quite rare and i'm just proud of myself honestly i think i'm so cool. Yeah, it is stunning. Should we do another?

Yeah, I did actually screenshot one. Let me find my phone, though. Take it away. It's fearless. Oh, I've already covered it. My sun's big now. I have one. Yeah.

Okay. I think this is a cool one, and this is kind of... This feels like it came straight out of second wing city not a place but it should be this person said it's kind of like miami vice it's really like and it would be really like shooting out the window yeah um this person said after feeling like it was cool to be boyish it's refreshing to be girly and feminine again which obviously so much nuance with the gender conversation but just to keep it light and fresh and it's just a joke yeah for podcast sake yeah um just love the idea of the whole like want to be like all other want to be like other girls yeah just happy to be like oh my god if you didn't know this i have a tattoo on my arm called this is girly but i think it's fun to be like other girls yeah just happy to be like oh my god if you didn't know this i have a tattoo

on my arm called this is girly but i think it's fun to be um just soft and gentle and like whatever just just whatever you want to do like oh who cares not me i am kind of anti the idea of like masculine equals hard feminine equals soft this is an interesting conversation isn't it like the kind of divine feminine energy the masculine energy like it's a it's a it's actually a very big rabbit hole on the internet right well it is hugely political like and i also think people use it like people throw out these terms of like the masculine energy the feminine energy and like i think a lot of it is like well-meaning sort of thing but i also think a lot of it is hugely first of all binary

and also completely limiting like i don't think it is like there are many reasons political sort of reasons why women are associated with like a softness someone said soft girl era is giving 1950s housewife which we were kind of talking about before we started recording i just think like that like it really lets men off the hook from having to be nice and kind because it's like oh it's in their masculine energy to be hard and that they're bringing home the bacon yeah it's like what is that yeah like and it it limits women into like your truest self is the making a pie side that is soft and kind and all of the stuff it's like well no like it no no like i think they're human traits not gender trait like it's a human trait everyone everyone's truest most aligned and

least insecure least ego side of themselves is kind and soft and all of this stuff i do feel like when you're bringing in i do agree with the idea of like there being a feminine and a masculine in everyone like there is a balance there's a huge balance like almost if you use it as like um water and earth and like they're all like all these sides but i do think people kind of flippantly put masculine and feminine on things on like human emotions yeah and it is no coincidence at the way that women have just been like shoved fucking down to the pits of the earth that all of the traits that are to do with like being kind and nurturing and like essentially cooking dinner are all the feminine traits and all the things to do with like being the ceo and like

getting the high grades and the thing those are all masculine and i do think that is really not real and like a societal fucked up thing that we've pushed on look at the trauma that we had in last week's episode of like literally we were saying like rapists and murderers are walking free and a girl feels like she's being too harsh and then can't be soft enough with herself on a podcast and it's heartbroken over it like it's yeah literally told to be so many things other that literally just be anything else other than what you want to be other than yourself literally just literally anything else other than what you naturally are yeah no everything that you are suppress it suppress it you're a girl you've been born with a vagina so you must be soft kind maternal it's like i might be hard i might be anything i literally might be hard

you might be hard today and soft tomorrow you might be hard today i might have a bonus day i might be hard today literally horrible someone else also said a really interesting and kind of it really actually fits into what you're saying about masculine and feminine traits quote unquote and all of this shit someone said that the soft girl era conversation is really healing for women of color and it kind of made me think and it kind of came back to me when you were saying that about people say masculine is really hard and feminine is really soft and kind of a lot of the older like i'm from quite a matriarchal family i'm both like i'm very there's a lot of like older very very strong women in my life and on my dad's side well yeah and on my dad's side of the family particularly and i think it is in a cultural sense there is a real um like ferocity

to being a woman and kind of it again what we were saying in last week's episode of feeling like to be a woman you have to defend yourself and you have to be ready to fight at any moment kind of mad woman you're a scorpion like you need to sting um and i think i see it more than anyone really actually in my nan on my on my mom's side who's a white woman but i do think in a cultural sense it is really interesting to look at marginalized communities also women and the ways that they have to literally just fight to live and like there isn't really it's not even about the choice of like oh do i want to wear pink today it's literally like life or death like my land has been taken from me my children are in danger i have nothing to eat have to fight i have to fight yeah but then and then i do think

it is really liberating and kind of just in what we're saying to just be however however you feel like you can be ideally safely in the world if that means wearing pink and getting a tattoo that says girly great if that means being really harsh and brutal one day great if that means being like all the other girls great if that means being this or that or whatever fine i think it's important to think about like all of the things that we're prescribed by society and the straight white male for example but i also think don't this is what we always say i think is like don't feel like you are like the responsible um kind of martyr to solve social issues in your own head like you live how you need to live worst place to solve societal issues is in your place no one else can access yeah worst place just keep yourself safe and happy i think is the main thing yeah i do feel like it's a really hard balance between

i don't know it's such an interesting thing because i do see the masculine feminine thing come up all the time on the internet like it's definitely uh for the last like five years maybe it's been like a real thing people are throwing out i think it's concerning because sorry i think it's concerning because we're obviously not at a point where we can have these not me and you but like society i don't think no offense guys we're quite capable of having we've proven ourselves quite incapable i would say of having nuanced compassionate intelligent thoughtful productive conversations about most things to be honest let alone gender like it

seems to be quite hard for people to grasp the concept of just like for example letting people live just like generally being um just having a couple brain cells in there knocking about i don't think something that could be as interesting and like useful productive empowering even as an idea like divine masculine and all of them even just masculine and feminine and all of this shit i just don't trust us with it right now just basically if you actually think about what if anything it's like that that language just does the whole concept a massive disservice to me it's like if you think about what it's actually talking about it's talking about like how humans have a duality in them and to be honest most things have a duality of like potentially like a light side a dark side a hard side a soft

side all of the stuff like that is pretty much what it said a fluid side a fixed side a hard side a soft side all of the stuff like that is pretty much what it said a fluid side a fixed side but by putting these genders on top as if it's like as if it's almost like um it's not taking into account the whole history political history of gender and it's putting it on as if it's almost like these ancient words of like feminine masculine it's like no there's a reason why you associate certain things with masculine there's a reason why you're certain certain things with femininity like you know that thing booba and kiki oh no what the hell is that have you you could quickly oh no actually booba what would you say booba booba and kiki but it's basically this like study that is like if you show people images of um like a kind of blob and then you show them a thing of

like a spiky little thing which one and you say which one's boober and which one's kiki yeah and it's like duh like well also i always thought that was so weird i know exactly what you mean now i always thought that's weird as well because kiki as a word is spiky boober has two o's in like it is like it's pretty obvious like do you know what i mean like it's like you explain it to me like i'm five and next year i'll be six like give give a couple crayons and a piece of paper to a child and get them to think about why might we associate one trait with feminine and one trait with masculine i'm sure they could come up with a few things meanwhile they've seen they've grown up with their mum um dropping them off at school cooking all their meals getting them

dressed he's working away in france exactly that sounds nice exactly peter sounds divine but like there's oh it's it's just it's they're said as if it's almost like those words exist in a void or like they haven't been as if they came from angels yeah it's like no this is prescribed to us on a human level it's like i don't quite think so and then you put the word divine in front of it as if it's ignoring all the political history it's like no um who would you give this episode to what kind of mood would you be in i would give this to any girl ever that exists on this planet like which to be honest i would give every episode of this podcast to any woman well that's lovely um especially between the ages i would give

it to anyone between the ages of like 15 and 30 especially there's a little gift wrapped in a bow 30 feels very young well i just feel like those are the people that are really gonna relate relate to us on a they're in chapter two they're my peers yeah they're in one in their third season season four they're in their era they're in a soft era stunning anyone that wants to hear two real human girls having a conversation they're realist that they might have in their own living rooms with their own friends yeah what a burden is to be this real honestly oh god make me a fake little girl i'd love it tell me what to say i love nothing more tell me the right answers and i will say them um see you around yeah see you around i did also have a really funny thing oh my god yeah go on

go on tell me tell me tell me no but i also just think should i just save it for what to say on another episode say it now oh but it's like random on the end no no it's so random it always is random on the end okay well if you want you can go the episode ends now but no stick around i want to hear this basically she texted me yesterday being like oh i just thought of a funny gag that we had together i'm gonna remind you about it on the episode and i was like what can you tell me now and i kept making guesses like am i getting warmer or colder she was like no no i forgot i said anything so now i'm really on the edge of my seat but it'd be funny it'd be the definition of fun i'll say what are you laughing at you'll say oh just something

i heard the other day i was kind of irish um but um yeah so it was basically i just remembered this the other day it was just a funny gag that we had where we were talking about well basically we saw no where do i did i kind of do it earlier when i said juay yeah you did how did you not say that right go on explain explain so the gag was we were talking about matt leblanc and you were like god you just made me say blanc as if that's a normal name matt leblanc and then we were god you just made me say blanc as if that's a normal name matt leblanc and then we were doing all of the other cars we were saying matthew paris jennifer we said we were going down to the central pier

i said it's quite an audacious kind of obnoxious you've made me say it was so obnoxious he could have come in and said hey guys my name is matt michaels he could have come in the lovely little stage name wrapped it up in a bow he said i'm gonna demand that you call me matt leblanc but we were loving them but the one that really got me got me laughing is we were going through all of the um character names we were like but the one that you really got me you're like raw is so funny raw raw Monica Aguilera oh my god that is so fucking funny raw

raw is the funniest thing I've ever heard but we're like Joey Joey God that's funny that I brought that back then in the middle of the episode you just let it slide that was like very cool as a

no I was just like let's keep it up I know I know but I did want to bring that up on the episode because I thought that was a great gag I'm no i was just like let's keep it i know i know but i did want to bring that up on the episode because i thought that was a great gag such a gag wrong and that was the day that i saw sephie and wong is ing how would you say that french girls out there how would you say i would always feel like sophie it's kind of the green de love bro we have to go i need to edit this now okay right god okay let's go if you don't hear from us assume the worst right um do you want to do this yeah and do you also want to say stick around till the end for a

very funny joke yeah okay let me just remember everything i say okay it's when i have things to say i'm not asking much they've already slipped you can do it you can do it i'm joking let's see what happens yeah go wendy's small frosty is the ultimate summer refreshment and not because it's cool let's see what happens. Yeah. Bye.