Goes Without Saying - spirituality & romanticising fear: she's NoT LiKe OtHeR GiRLs... she's worse

Episode Date: October 31, 2022

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The animal kingdom is queer and we are a part. Find a field guide to gay animals on Spotify, Apple. Or wherever you get your podcasts. ACAST helps creators launch, grow, and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast.com Goes Without Saying, you're listening to Goes Without Saying with Sefi and Wing. I'm Wing. And I'm Sefi. And this is our very, goes without saying, chaotic version of a spooky, seasonal kind of halloweeny kind of

religious actually kind of preachy episode of goes out saying i've really enjoyed it i feel like we've really pushed through by the skin of our teeth we have gone through trials and tribulations to get this episode to you so i hope you appreciate it and i hope we're finding you a good spot in your life sending you lots of love enjoy all right if i can help let's try so we just deleted 18 minutes so don't even worry about it don't worry a little it was pure chaos yeah it you know what was the nail in the coffin so luckily wings doorbell rang and she had a delivery of some furniture arriving yeah which then gave me a bit of time to reflect of what

sentence i was in the middle of saying when that happened you said can you just give a bit of a description about your journey in guides and i was like so i started off in rainbows it's like okay good thing the fucking doorbell yeah save the day who would give a shit yeah there's nothing really i'm coming i'm definitely coming in with weird energy and i i'll put my hands up i feel like i'm dragging us down and i feel like i'm bringing nothing i haven't been very funny i haven't been very clever i haven't really been much of anything i haven't been any of that but i've just been weirdly high energy no weirdly question mark you've been exactly as expected yeah you've been the classic high energy i've had half a coffee um which is never a good sign that's too much for me

but how are you no you know i'm not even gonna ask right okay so oh god no what was that it was just a silly question i was gonna say how are you faring with the decaf but i just they i don't know that would send us right down the same path exactly yeah let's just leave that where it is yeah right spooky right yeah because i and i did say in the in the really maybe the crux of this is do we just let the girls do what they want can we just let the girls have some fun for once, right? Like you want to be sexy Remy, then be sexy Remy. So now I want to say what my Halloween costume is. Go on, yeah, tell us.

I'm going as Ratatouille. But I'm not going as sexy Remy. I'm going as my group. There's one of my group going as sexy Remy. Although he's kind of kind of he's not really we've got an emile we've got a sexy linguine and i am sexy anton ego that's so fun do you know what i'm doing because i feel like he's quite a difficult costume yeah that's what i asked you how are you gonna dress for that um i think mine's all in the props so i'm going to write out his entire restaurant oh yeah the review um which starts something along

the lines of the job of a critic is relatively easy have you written it already or no no i haven't but i'm watching ratatouille tomorrow what to be prepared get into character yeah yeah um and i'm gonna make the ratatouille that he eats out of like cardboard and like stick it to a paper play bits of colored paper yeah red and yellow paper like spiraled around stick it to a paper it's in the props and the mannerisms i think it's all in the i think it's the posture yeah the start i need a glass of wine yeah i need i think i'm gonna do like it's a quite smoky eye yeah for his sunken under eye bags american ashley vibe yeah yeah and then i'm just gonna have to have a hunchback posture it's

like roulette is she dressed as anton ego from ratatouille or is she cosplaying as mary kate and ashley olsen in 2012 stunning i think also as part of the ensemble it will work but alone it's definitely an odd it's like that's just a rogue choice it's a it's a woman in a blazer and a turtleneck with a smoky eye holding a glass of wine and a fake cardboard with a piece of paper that says the role of a critic is incredibly easy that's so funny we we really spiraled through a ton of shit in our past um take of this i'm happy to see the back of it so am i it's actually nonsense it was weird i was really stiff as a board actually although one thing i will say just so i put this out there so i can get my credit get my praise is that i've been tipping the whole place upside down and i've become

my halloween costume is sexy diy artiste and i've been drilling i've been hammering i've been smashing the place up because my boyfriend's in new york and i was like it'd be really nice for him to come back and i've like redecorated the whole bedroom and like put paintings on the wall and put a shelf together and blah blah blah um so i'm actually quite knackered i honestly as usual i'm no you're doing you told me that your head would caught water was leaking yeah it burst this is a this is a replacement with him now replacement innards he had a gut transplant yeah he burst i know really sad so now if you can see like his insides are too big for his body yeah yeah god he needs a grape spur yeah anyway right shall we yeah can i

ask you a question of course have you always been into spooky you're a spooky gonzalez oh i've always been a spooky really you've always been a little spookster always what kind of spookster just like i like dressing up for halloween or like ghost like spiritual stuff no not just dressing up for halloween because the things i do for halloween are like silly like i'll be donkey yeah they're not spooks um 100 i've always been fascinated in um i've been fascinated by the idea of like ghosts and like um aliens fucking weird shit since i was so young i remember my dad got me this weird dvd well he borrowed it from his friend it was a weird dvd that i found in the house have i mentioned this before yeah you have clark's mysterious you have yeah and it was one of those things that i watched really young and honestly cool memory has like it was all these he's a

science fiction writer and he's i think he's got like a nobel prize or something yeah it's real um he's like a c-clarark yeah i mean i was from talking about him just the other week really yeah i've never heard anyone talk about fucking arthur c clark yeah but it's like a weird video that was in the house like and it was these he would be interviewing people that had claimed to see like bigfoot or like claimed that their alien ship had landed on their house or like weird or ghosts and things like this and i was hooked but i think i've always been even like i fucking hate to bring it to harry potter straight away but the bits of harry potter that appealed to me as a kid as a obviously the amazing character development

all of this yeah i think it's like yeah this idea of like this magical fucking dark yeah but also fun what like i think also i'm obsessed with horror movies i love getting spooked out i fucking love it it's one of my biggest things i think that i love um adrenaline and like that spooky like feeling yeah i think you do as well do you you wouldn't know but you're not a horror movie yeah i'm not only with friends not like which is sad because i would love to watch a horror movie with you i'd watch a horror movie with you for sure i watch horror movies with my friends with people as like a social thing but i'm not watching a horror in my spare time i i actually do get that like i went the other day um to the bfi which is one of i think one of the best you can go for three pounds if you're 25

under amazing deal to see any film um at bfi in london i went there the other day on my own to go and see the others which is like an old horror movie with nicole starring nicole kidman and also she's always at the cine i'm always there no not you nicole kidman but also you nicole's always there nicole kidman i is what does that mean yeah she's always at the cine yeah am i not going i don't think so i i don't know if i've got it wrong can i google it yeah i definitely have though got it right nicole kidman is always at the cine she's always at the cine is it odia i don't understand i don't i might have got this wrong no i've got this right it's iconic you've definitely seen it although maybe you haven't actually if you don't go to

odians do you yeah i go to odians oh you do yeah sorry that wasn't like pointing the finger like you hate odians i'm also just meant like do you go to the odian well i my local one i'm coming off weird i'm coming off weird yes your local is a city my local one is a is there's a there's a view and a city world near my home there's not an ode there's an odian and there's a couple odians in oxford but i wouldn't necessarily go to the city if i was at home but in london i'm going to the nice ones definitely i'm treating myself to picture houses definitely three pounds yeah that's really good that's really good that's unheard of yes you went in there no cole kidman you'll see it just google

it she did an advert she did an advert do you know what it's all coming back to me as soon as she did an advert that was like cinema i love cinema what i like about movies is that it feels like a movie that's what she's saying yeah yeah she's always at the city it's all about it's all the magic in the cinema oh right that's enough that's enough there's okay i think this plays in um it's either cine world or views but it's john boyega and he does one that's like turn off your phone there's pinging there's that must be there's zaps there's buzzes we don't need these noises you've got to consume this right kind of thing i don't know he's like running from an explosion that must be view because i don't go to views have we done the same thing maybe why don't you

like these though because i am hooked i never i've just never really gone to them i think i've only been to a view once or twice in my life i grew up going to the odeon lee valley and the enfield cineworld they were the two that i would go to and the the cineworld was like the big one if we were going to odeon it was like any other thing do you know i mean it was like big day out like oh my god we've gone to the big cine world in enfield and then now i go to the odeon on the seafront or the commedia the picture house and the commedia but i want to go to that one the grand old duke of york isn't on or whatever yeah yeah yeah anyway i love actually cinema wise a shitty sticky oh so do i morning me too dirty cinema is one of my favorite things yeah

i love that because it's just like okay now i'm not out here i am at my in my natural habitat like scabbing out like i can't be in a nice if i'm going somewhere for real i need to be prepared yeah i agree it takes me actually a lot of mental stamina to work myself up to a place of going to i don't know somewhere even like a bit nice like a nice place yeah i also feel like i don't necessarily love the culture of charging um 15 pounds for oh god ticket and then it's on a red velvet seat and there's people eating like pizza that you get on a buzzer and things like that it's like yeah i don't know if that's a tree that's purely a tree that's a birthday i think but i think like there's a massive difference between the films like those kind of films maybe i'll go and see a fucking wes anderson yeah a fucking wanky wanky film over there but if i'm watching fucking jurassic world yeah jurassic

world colon dominion. Dominion. The world dominion, whatever it's called. I want to see that covered in popcorn. Definitely. With like a bit of a rustle maybe of the popcorn. No fucking buzz, buzz, buzz. You're bringing in a fucking roast dinner. No.

No. Roast dinner. Lobster Thermidor. Fucking meal. Okay. Anyway, we've done it again. I know, I know. It's fine though i guess yes

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These rams are gay. I'm studying gay animals. Does that mean I'm gay? So why don't more people know this? I'm Owen Ever. I'm Lane Kaplan-Levinson, and this is a field guide to gay animals. A podcast about queerness in the natural world. The animal kingdom is queer, and we are a part. Find a field guide to gay animals on Spotify, Apple, or wherever you get your podcasts a cast helps creators launch grow and monetize their podcasts everywhere a cast.com so you're you're quite a spooker i think in a way that you've had quite spooky i've got a spooky life i've had quite a scary concerning life you've had like um well one of the main things that we

actually became friends about was i think we're both drawn to like a spookiness i think it's like my absolute need to be interested at every level and I can hold your interest yeah I almost can't um it's almost like let's get scared guys it's like can't we just have neutral emotions for one second so let's get spooked um and you were giving spooky energy yeah it's one of my first things that drew me to you oh I was actually thinking about the first time that i met you and i remember thinking if i give more time to this there could be something funny here give more time to just take some time to sink in what this girl is giving me well there were a few quips from you and i thought hmm this is compelling

there was something drawing me in i remember one of the first times i met you i remember walking away from you and saying and bitching about you and saying that girl is a great storyteller that's what i like about this erin girl is um she's a very good storyteller and listen did i know we'd tell stories together until the end of time about nonsense till the end of time into microphones yeah but you are because you told me a spooky story did i know basically you were telling me about sleep paralysis i think oh yeah god which honestly what a cursed child it's about me she's got a time turnaround i really do but i i never had sleep paralysis like i didn't really know too much about it i actually fucking have it

often not often but it's a it's a thing in my life sometimes now but you'd had like some weird experiences with that which really were the thing that hooked me on you right my trauma my trauma bonded instantly well i used to have it all the time i went through a real phase of having it um when i was going through a particularly dark period of my life about 10 years ago actually and i would just be i was i would not sleep it was just horrific there would be so many times right it was like i could feel like this creature like biting me and like shaking the bed and i could see things like really actually like i'm insane like people probably listening like rolling their eyes

into next week's episode no no but this is the thing with sleep paralysis like because i'd never had it at all but then i started to have it a bit more i think i would get it if i'd been awake and then when you're and then you do yeah and the weird thing that actually shocked me with it because from your descriptions of it i would always know that you would see things and it would be like i know they're not there but they're i'm seeing essentially a person i remember one of my friends who i think she was under the influence of drugs at the time but she said that she had sleep paralysis and she would she literally was lying there and that was she was under the influence of drugs at the time but she said that she had sleep paralysis

and she would she literally was lying there and that was she was all like this sort of devil's face by her face all night that was just like watching her like that and things like that just interest me like what the fuck is that and I had it once I was staying in a house in Swindon with my family and I was lying in bed and i genuinely felt this thing like sitting on my chest and it was like licking my nipple you've told the story before this is exactly the kind of sleep paralysis that you would have it was terrifying it was honestly so scary like it was like it was it was one of those weird things because like this is sleep paralysis right now but i can feel oh yeah you can physically feel it did you not once have a sleep paralysis situation with michael jackson oh my god i did do you remember that i can't

really remember that he was going he was moonwalking all over you did i have that you turned around he was leaning down whoa how's he doing i didn't this was an episode we recorded a long long long time ago i think where you you said it's what you fear the most and i said mine would be michael jackson but that was because we just watched the documentary and i was really scared of him at the time oh yeah because that was because wasn't we would we were was it we were reading about this woman who i don't know if that was someone had said something to us or there's a woman who was at her baby they were taking her baby and i was like okay so maybe it's what you fear most yeah which is long gone now it's in the dust i found those episodes saved on my day they were basically when we first were

like we might do a podcast we did five episodes some of you might have listened to these because we do have listeners that were here right from the fucking beginning which is insane and thank you so much for honestly the worst taste like you have surely objectively bad taste but we did these five episodes and one of them was a halloween episode and it was in a haunted hotel and the fire alarm kept going off i would love to listen to that maybe we'll release them one day because they really are like cutie baby arms that halloween one is actually so special to me like we literally yeah me too we run out midway because we're so scared like that's an insane listening experience oh that's really sweet but yeah i think sleep paralysis what is

one of the things that um that's like a fucking scary thing because it's like almost you are seeing things that aren't there and it almost in the spooky mind at night almost at night your my mind gets fucking spooky yeah i'm almost like am i seeing is it the mind going crazy is there someone stood in the corner of the room or is this kind of am i on the threshold of like another round yeah yeah everyone clicks off just take a minute almost it's like was was that not real or was that kind of real and were you getting close to something else yeah i know yeah yeah it's i'm on the veil it's what is your core belief about this universe do you have one are you settled on any

belief what's your history of belief my history of belief is raised an atheist like really scientific kind of god is not real you are an atheist um and then i i in like kind of year nine to like year 11 i think i quite identified as like a buddhist when i was like i was like i'm a buddhist and i was really really interested in all of that sort of thing but i think that was just like a teenager wanting to find identity i i definitely am interested in like a spookiness but i have no fixed views like i definitely think there have been crazy coincidences in my life and like weird synchronicities and odd things happening um but i i do think i believe in um i don't i i actually don't really know what

i believe in agnostic getting a bit agnostic in your old age i don't really like i don't really like the word agnostic because agnostic has always given me you're an atheist but you're just too scared to have that conversation about it but what if that isn't true like what i don't know what if you aren't an atheist what if you genuinely are agnostic not you i don't know agnostic feels a bit lazy i think i think agnostic is a bit post-modern isn't it yeah just whenever i've spoken to someone they say i'm agnostic it's like oh i don't care but i think the thing is i really care um i really care and i'm really i think agnostic gives me i'm not interested if someone said to you if someone was a stranger and they were just doing the census they said are you spiritual yes no i i say atheist on like on those quizzes not quizzes on surveys yeah when you have to say what you are i say

agnostic i say atheist what do you say um i don't know but if someone said are you spiritual say you're on a date someone says are you a spiritual person it's like a white boy with dreadlocks he's like got some tattoos and like little beads around it yeah it's like spiritual what do you want me to get my bongos out spiritual are you spiritual not i'm not openly going i'm spiritual but i think i'm massively interested in um weird fucking shit that goes on yeah fair enough fair enough but i'm not identifying as spiritual no because there's an ugly there's a problematic broader conversation there i think i grew up around a lot of spiritual kind of hippie people in my life yeah i definitely grew up around um in the trees a hippie community of people um like my parents friends i think that's in your core essence

i think so as well i can't like that was my childhood was around quite like bohemian i think you can people sniff that a mile off from you that's what i got like the first my first with of you i thought fucking hell tree hugger yeah she's boho babe yeah she is she is but but yeah i definitely grew up in like vegetarian kind of artists like my mum's one of my essentially kind of like my aunt but like my mum's best childhood friends they lived in a tree house sort of thing like i always joke that you lived in a tree house yeah like people would drink fucking like nettle soup and shit like that like i definitely grew up around that sort of thing and that there was definitely a spiritual element to all of that like go to the summer solstice things like this

kind of a connectedness with the universe yeah like the only two weddings i've ever been to i went to a pagan wedding wedding but the pagan like there's no you'd only ever been to two weddings two weddings in my whole life pagan and seek that's a bit crazy i know isn't that weird hasn't your friend just got married yeah but i wasn't at her wedding oh it was at her wedding party i don't know that i've never seen people get wed the only two people i've ever seen get to say their vows yeah right fair enough that was like her party which was amazing yeah okay cool but yeah so i think i've been around the spiritual people but i think i can sniff out a lot of bollocks in that as well like a performance in there there's a big performance in there isn't there for a lot of bollocks in that as well like a performance in there there's a big performance in there isn't there for a lot of people which is massively it's weird isn't it yeah i don't know

what would you say about your like what's your spiritual history my spiritual history is vast what's your spiritual history it's very steven of us it's so steven um my spiritual history is vast and complex i feel like um i've always i've been raised around some varying levels i would say of like traditional like monolithic the classic religions like catholicism and islam i was raised muslim for a good while in my in my childhood which had a big i don't know i think that's really i think it's really fascinating because i just think the conversation around being muslim in this country and i guess globally also in a post 9-11 world like and even post 7-7 like we were probably like eight or something no we would have been seven seven like we were probably like eight or something no we would have been yeah at that time i just feel like there's a big like that's a huge part of my life and like myself and my sense of

self there's a real love there but there's also a lot of confusion there and like sourness because there was also an abusive person in my life who I think used religion a lot as a scapegoat for their abusive behaviors um yeah and obviously you get that across all religions and all like behaviors and all you can use kind of anything to be manipulative and gaslight people and be violent and all of these things um but I always grew up definitely around like both of my I think I also a big part of my upbringing was very like matriarchal like I was very much led by like my nan like both like my mum's mum and my dad's mum both are very I would say quite superstitious and like into the spooky vibes like kind of like my nan would get like um like I think it's like grapevine leaves and burn them after a meal

and get you to spin your hand around it and kind of sage you up yeah and like just little things like that and my nan is very much about um my nan i think has known a lot of death in her life that's why i love her she's my soulmate um but i think she really has like a real interest in like what happens when you die i think she really feels the presence of people when they die so i've always felt like when you die surely your life isn't nothing like surely you're somewhere just hear me out just humor me guys no i'm 100% humoring yeah i know you are it's not you i'm worried about um yeah go on what so what do you i love that what do you think happens when you die i honestly i do honestly think i don't know in what form i don't know in what capacity i don't

know in what context but i just feel like this one way that we know the universe as humans like our human existence i think i think this is a scientific fact that that understanding of that experience is so minute and tiny and just not comprehensive it's not the full account of this universe i just feel like there is there has to be a million and one things a million and one truths about the universe that are just untold to us right now like we just don't know yeah basically i'm agnostic no i love that i agree i think there's just so much i don't think anyone obviously like it kind of does go without saying nobody knows no you can't really there are a million beliefs about

everything but truly nobody knows i also love the whole thing of like this is a simulation yeah um none of this is real and when i was young i used to like a child i would look my mom in the eye and i was an only child as well so i feel like that also can kind of heighten your experience of like i'm not real do you know i mean because you're living this like solitary life and i would look look at my mom in the eye and i'll be like you can tell me like if this is all fake like you can tell me tell me yeah like i just want to know like it's okay like if if you know like if you got me here in some weird way yeah yeah tell me really like narcissist baby like egomaniac like five year old like this isn't real is it i always think my dog must

have that almost being a dog yeah um and in a world with humans and then you go on a walk but you see another dog and then you carry on you carry on with your humans and it's like oh there's i can hear one of them barking yeah you must have a you're not the only one yeah but also like this like this dog my dog was not like now his life is so different now that he lives in brighton he's walking around central brighton every day walking along the sea meeting all these other dogs meeting all these other people his life for the first 10 years of his life was so insular he never met any other dogs or anything so it must be really jarring a weird experience yeah of life yeah it's really odd i think that's a weird thing when you're a kid and you meet a kid that's younger than you oh that's cool do you know what i mean

because it's like if you're the baby for a while did you ever get that like when you meet someone younger it's like not in my memory because i have always had younger siblings but that's what i mean like yeah so you would never remember yeah meeting a younger one i don't know if i remember meeting a younger one but like but that is weird i think for children yeah to process especially if it's a younger sibling yeah that is weird yeah i've never really thought about it that's what it's weird though being a kid and trying to work out i remember being like to my mum almost like is god is god not real then because she'd always been like god is not real blah blah we don't believe in this or whatever we're not a family that goes to church whatever

um and i remember being like but what if he is yeah how embarrassed are we going to be at the gates of hell when god turns around and says just like we're in danger almost what if he is i don't remember her standing this is and i'm crying crying crying stat she stood in the kitchen she really did i think i've told you this before and you said she was like i did a jim carrey but she put her arms up in the air and she said smite me down smite me oh mighty smiter she's like strike me down then god strike me down but what an insane thing to say and obviously nothing happened but that's why i think like the christian culture like especially like in the uk and if anyone's like

a little bit irish or fully irish or any of that i just think that like there's the guilt and shame it's insane level of guilt and shame it's all we do every week try and unpack that guilt and shame it's like the real fear like i remember walking along my bedroom and not wanting to touch my floor of my bedroom because i was like the devil's under there it's hell hell is down there really insane also fears around like like people that i know that were raised more kind of catholic have a real still like even if they they even got a whiff of like catholicism in their lives um there is just like an undeniable like hand-me-down shame around sex yeah is so inbuilt that it's like even to fancy someone or oh my god i looked at that person i felt kind of desire for them there's like there's a shame that goes alongside it, which I find fucking fascinating.

Cause I just don't think I have that. I don't think you've got more shame. I don't think you're a shameful person. I think I have pretty little. Yeah. But maybe I don't have a no shame. Yeah. Whatever.

Okay. Actually I've got a little, a lot of people sending messages about like the sexualization of Halloween, like and pressures for young women and like then also shame around wanting to i don't know do a certain fun thing on halloween what are your thoughts on that i kind of found that a bit not surprising but like a bit dated mean girls yeah it was me i was like in girl world there are two it's like why do people care i almost think if you want to dress like what are the rules that you have to be spooky scary

i don't think there are any rules in in life in totality it's a simulation anyway guys but i think almost like because people were saying like you can either go scary or sexy it's like what about funny what if you're going as anton ego exactly yeah mr trick there yeah exactly there are more things there are more things that a young woman can be there's nothing stopping you from being anton ego if she wants to be anton ego she believed she could so she did anton ego was that in this one she believed she could so she did wait was that in this one she believed she could so she did or was that in the other one that was the other one we did a whole thing in the other one where we said she thinks she's what if i fall oh darling but what if you fly we were saying loads of cringy old quotes what was the other one we said was nicole kidman in

this one yeah nico yeah she better fucking be fucking hell we're getting our knickers in a twist here yeah we are right okay actually i want to have a real conversation with you would you mind i don't mind so i've got nothing on oh i've heard emma chamberlain speak about her i don't want to butcher it so i'm gonna skirt around it um and just be really vague but she kind of she made me think about the idea that some women or some people whatever don't feel comfortable being super sexual and don't feel like they perceive themselves in a sexual way or don't want to be perceived in a sexual way and all of these things have you heard her talk about that no i haven't she was saying like there was one instance where my mum's ringing me sorry

let me just decline her sorry declined carry on sorry out of order i'm joking decline that bitch and i'm joking um um caught on camera yeah she was emma chamberlain was saying like that one of her i really don't want to put her because it is her real life but basically someone that she was with or something one of their friends had said like she's definitely a lesbian or something like that yes i have seen yeah this is on that podcast because she's not like sexual or something yeah which is an odd um take as if lesbians aren't it's the alternative to not be yeah it's great shows the lens that like women can only be sexual through the eyes of men of a straight man because it's like if you dress for women and you're sexually attracted to women you're not sexual it's like oh i hate to break it to you but women can be sexual without the

presence of a man who do you dress for after this whole comes in i'm dressing for women and i'm just a man so good who do you dress for though do you think um i think it's it's changing with my hashtag recovery yeah body dysmorphia yeah i 100 i think i've dressed for the weird fucking voice in my head um that has had a huge set of rules emma she also goes by name of not emma chamberlain not emma just the bitch yeah yeah emma t and trademarks i think i've been dressing for her and i've also um i think i think i yeah i think i dress for men and i think i dress for other girls i think i dress so my friends will be like love the look and i 100 have been dressing so that men will be like she's fucking a one hot sexy mama do you think in any way you dress for yourself well i think this is

what's changing i definitely think i do dress for myself because i think i have a specific style which definitely i don't think does lend itself to anyone in particular yeah or or i don't know there's a certain something but i think i'm developing more of a sense of um dressing for myself because i think my sense of myself and um the body dysmorphia in my mind also aka emma i think those have got merged and i'm trying to separate them because myself has got merged with someone that's telling me that i only have to wear a certain uniform yeah and i think those are becoming detached in that i can realize i have a certain style that's detached from a fucking maniac in my head who are you dressing as anton and

who's your who are you dressing as anton ego for um i'm dressing as that for my fellow comedians. To get kudos from your fellow comedians, as they say. For the comedians of the world that are going to go, who are you? And I'm going to say, I'm Anton Ego. I'm fucking Anton fucking Ego, man. Ego bitch, yeah. Nice.

And I'm going to get out my script, the role of a critic. And I'm going to do the whole speech to everyone that asks. Nice. I'm getting lost in this. I don't know what we've said or what we haven't or i have no idea who do you think you dress for again i think it changes all the time yeah because it's also like it has to it has to yeah i think who i am even if i'm dressing for myself who is myself without the awareness of all of the other people

that inform who i am do you know know i mean like can i say i dress for myself if that's surely like dressing for myself doesn't necessarily disregard the idea that there are other people involved in who i am yeah because it's almost like you dress for myself but myself is a specific person that's been molded by by you for the desires of other people exactly yeah yeah and even just like the consideration of others like i bought some pajama they were only silly little pajamas not like it sounds like i'm gonna say i bought some sexy pajama like i bought some sexy little whatever no it was literally like scabby old shorts and whatever because i knew my boyfriend would like them and i brought them home like look at these pajamas he

was like whoa they're so cool like blah blah blah and it's like yeah when i'm wearing those pajamas i wouldn't have bought if i wasn't with my boyfriend i wouldn't have even noticed them but now i know like for example when i walk past something in the street and i see something it reminds me of you i you know like obviously we're just we're so informed by the people that we're surrounded by yeah yeah in a nice way though i try and keep that i i do think as well i do that in a nice way i think as well when i was younger there was definitely a time like i don't know what i've said in this episode and what i haven't yeah but in the time where i was living in a really um i would say super strict Muslim household there were loads

of things that I was told not to wear and I put up a bit of a fight because I I'm I'm not someone who thinks I don't want to be perceived sexually or I'm not someone who thinks I don't perceive myself sexually is actually a big part of who I am even if I was 16 and I'm sure everyone can have their opinions on that and I'm sure I could spend hours unpacking it but I also just think I had a right to express myself also not that I was running around in my knickers um you've really got me into the word knickers yeah exactly I was wearing a little skirt for example or like a t-shirt I had a t-shirt once that had um when i was 15 it was like odd future times that was all the right odd future i've never heard like tyler the creator okay baby boy frank i was never really into it well they were all about especially tyler like

he would have like these upside down crosses and blah blah blah and i found this t-shirt once at a market at camden market actually and it was an upside down cross made out of like kittens oh my god and i on the back it just had this big upside down cross you remember like everyone getting tattooed of crosses and it's very beauty crush sammy maria yeah i've never heard the phrase odd futures future really yeah i don't think i've ever heard of that wow not in my in your world in your bubble in your in my memory right now but later i might be like oh fucking hell yeah yeah yeah i'm sure i'm sure there'll be loads of things that come to you about our future but it was a bit it was a big thing for me like and that it was very much like a style thing do you remember they're like um those like wooden bracelets with jesus on them i do remember those like things like that everyone had the cross was a really big like fashion

moment in like 2012 also i've been seeing a lot of articles like oh 2010s fashion is coming back galaxy print crosses all of that disco pants the disco pants yeah that was an iconic time that really was what was the question really who do i dress for i don't know i think i so i don't that's one time that i really felt like and i get it if you're a child you're a child maybe you do have to follow certain rules whatever but i don't like ever feeling like i'm i do also have a bit of a thing you were actually saying this is called what did you say demand authority like demand avoidance demand avoidance yeah i just and i and authority avoidance i don't like even if i was planning on making an orange juice if you then

not you but yeah probably not you but if someone else said to me oh how do you feel about making some orange juice today like you should probably make some orange juice today i would literally be like fuck you you fucking cunt how dare you i never want to make orange juice again even if i was literally two steps away from the orange juice like it just turns me off so hard so yeah i feel like being made to feel like i need to be a certain thing really fucking grinds my gears and i just don't like it i think that's one of the things that style also this is the halloween episode style the style and halloween episode but like i think that's one of the things that at like school especially there were all these rules and i

never knew what they were like i still don't really know what the fucking rules of like what makes like for example you have to have your bag straps like this oh yeah don't wear black socks sort of thing t-shirt underneath your top you have to be wearing all of this stuff and i was speaking to you the other day when i was at yours yeah and i saw a tiktok of a girl saying it was like a really horrid tiktok and she was it honestly gave me the vibe of like a school bully um and it was like she was like if you wear black socks don't trust me if you wear black socks yeah yeah it's like if you talk to black if you wear black socks, don't talk to me. Don't talk to me if you wear black socks, yeah. Yeah, it's like, if you talk to black, if you wear black socks, yeah, like, you're a laughingstock, essentially.

If you talk to black socks, you're a puppeteer. Sock girl. You're fucking weird, opening up your sock drawer. But it was one of those things where it was like, God, I'm so out of tune with, like, the rules. And I don't like people that impose rules like no black socks it's like when did that fucking become a thing yeah like honestly if you obsess over things like that or if you would judge someone for wearing like for example remember a big thing at school was that ankle swingers did you always have that yeah she's got ankle swingers like we would call

them on your ankles it's not what would we call them um jackups jackups i've never heard that really it's wearing jackups ankle swingers that feels very um around in the country yeah she's wearing her ankle swingers yeah um but things like that now actually having a trouser like trousers that kind of cut off there would be kind of fine like yeah it would be cool yeah almost gives me a bit of an emma chamberlain and there's also a class element to that which is just so somber it's horrid it's really actually cruel it's it's really cool and i think this is what the tick to i just i'm not in circles where your style has to fit like obviously there are societal rules and fucking aesthetic shit and trends and stuff that we can't

all escape but like i don't move in those spaces where people would laugh at someone for wearing the wrong thing for wearing the wrong anton costume for saying your anton ego costume oh my god can you believe she's wearing a fucking yeah but some people just will say that they'll be miserable but exactly but this girl i watched this tiktok and i just thought fucking hell people still do this shit that people go if you wear black socks like when did that fucking become the rule what yeah so strange it's really sad actually it's really really sad and juvenile to be honest juvenile grow up that was fun that was fun did we answer anyone's question yeah we spoke about the pressure about being sexual at halloween yeah perfect perfect job done job done we did it amazingly okay great that was good well that was perfect thank you well done to

you as well congratulations i do feel like you go on i was gonna say we always do after the podcast we give each other a round of applause yeah we do well i was gonna say publicly we have kind of got through this one by the skin of our teeth i didn't realize but you'd written off this episode for this week yeah yeah well we spoke earlier right no no no no not not for you but i was just like we can't do this today for me it wasn't for you was it well it was but i did but i was almost like is it is it a good idea but i actually think we've pulled a really good episode yeah yeah yeah as usual uh i just you know this is my priority i think i wanted to do this yeah i think i wanted to do this and i think it's it's been

fun it's been nice good good good convo good spooky convo yeah what's one what's the spookiest thing that's ever happened to you just quick yeah what's the spookiest thing that's ever happened to you the most scared you've ever been in your life just just quickly when i got chased on quad bikes down a hill by two fucking nutters nice what about you mine would definitely be some sort of paranormal thing like middle of the night like oh like spooky like someone's at the door like someone's in your bed someone's withering your clothes sort of thing right okay let's go did that happen what look at this big old cheesy grin on your face because it's i love it when you're in this mood

i love it i love getting yeah there was one time there was one time where um i was in my room and i wasn't couldn't sleep at night and it was i looked there was a mirror opposite my bed bad feng shui don't do that and yeah next to my bed was like my like desk and i would also sit there and do my makeup and i'd taken the bulb out of the lampshade and hung it over the mirror because it gave a brighter light for my makeup i was a sexual 16 year old what can i say what can you say also the boys were all wanking at that point. How dare you have a go? Yeah, don't take it away from me.

Let me have fun. Yeah. Yeah, fuck that. And I could see in the mirror that there was a girl sat next to me on the chair for my table. And she looked like me, but the evil. She was my evil, evil wing. She was your tethered? Yeah, she was my tethered.

And she had long, dark hair dark hair was all covering her face and she had the light bulb that i would set that i would do my makeup with and she was holding it up in the air like as if she was about to smash it on me like she was holding the bulb in her hand because i used to go to bed with the bulb i used to go to bed with the light on because i would have this i was cursed all the time i was haunted i was also like it's funny looking back. It's like, yeah, I was being abused. I was actually an abusive household. And it's like, yeah, no wonder you're having ghosts.

Your dreams were weird, basically. Yeah, you're haunted, yeah. Fucking hell. Yeah. So could you see her? Were you like awake? I was shaking my nut off, yeah. And I could see her.

Right, we have to go. So what do you think that was? I think that was my brains. Or that was really just a girl. I't know but she was she was not happy but i would say all the time but i think there was a lot there was a lot of obviously like it was an abusive household but there was a lot of like like immoral acts going on like almost in quite a traditional like there had been like affairs and like there was real like in a religious sense there were real yeah there were real sins in that house yeah because i remember someone in that house

saying to me if anyone's gonna be haunted it will be me sort of thing and i was like but they're coming to me because also i was in the loft i was in the loft room so i just yeah i would always feel like they're coming through the loft like they it was just horrible i remember you saying actually you would say like can you move on like move rooms almost yeah like you'd be like not in here yeah yeah my cousin down he used to do yeah yeah yeah go down to the kitchen but my cousin used to go to this thing i think called the circle and he was just really into like spirituality and all of these things and like would do all of these like um yeah spiritual things and he said to me just just say calmly no thank you i'm not interested

or whatever yeah fucking hell i remember you say go on spit it out spit it out go on you can't get me on the end and then cut me short on trying to grill you yeah go on but no no let's leave it no no i want to know what you're gonna say well i just remember you telling me about that and there was one night when we were all when we lived it together at uni and we watched a spooky episode or something i can't remember what it was and we all had nightmares that on the same night and we all had nightmares and i remember you said that you woke up at about like 1am and you did the whole not not in here move on and then about 2am you moved it upstairs and i woke up about two and i was like please move on and then it went a.m you moved it upstairs and i woke up about two and i was like

please move on and then it went to someone and then someone else was like please move on and they had their nightmare at like four and it's like we're moving this weird bad dream around that's really funny even the spirit around um but i remember thinking that was funny at the time that's really funny i would obviously never intentionally be like go into the other room where seffy's sleeping but we all like but more so just yeah move on no thank you not here that's what i would say upstairs and i'm there fast asleep oh snoozing away and i'm like right let's go if you don't hear from us definitely definitely Definitely, definitely a scene of the worst.