Goes Without Saying - stigma & self-diagnosis: the spectacle of mental illness

Episode Date: June 19, 2024

podmothers sephy & wing enter the chat: spiralling on the misrepresentation of mental illnesses, insincerity, shame, and spectacle. ✷see more ✷ www.instagram.com/sephyandwing ✷ www.youtube.com/@sephyandwing ✷ www.tiktok.com/@sephyandwingshop ✷ www.sephyandwing.co.uk Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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Like the story of a cabaret singer and a sex worker who invented safe sex and saved millions and millions and millions of lives. Go check out Resurrection wherever you listen to podcasts. ACAST helps creators launch, grow, and monetize their podcasts everywhere. ACAST.com. Goes Without Saying, you're listening to Goes Without Saying with Sefi and Wing. I'm Sefi. And I'm Wing. And here's Ozzy. That was actually me. And this episode is, God, I feel like we really go into quite a few topics in this.

The one that I find particularly interesting, we're talking about mental health, which is the thing of the whole episode. We're talking about stigma a lot, which was really interesting. Capitalism, how to cope when your brain is just not fucking braining. And when the world is not compatible with how you're feeling. I think this is a really good one if you want something cosy, soft, but also kind of thought-provoking. I had a really good time in this episode. What about you? Good. I'm glad. I'm glad you did. Yeah, I had the best time, as always.

Cool. Well, enjoy. Sorry, I just went. Okay. That's annoying of me. No, no, it's fine. Right, I'll come. Are we ready? Ready.

Let's set the scene. We're knackered good we are so tired i don't really know why though i know why we've been doesn't sound real and in a lot of ways it isn't real but we've been just recording and editing non-stop yeah so this will get to you on thursday in a couple of days by that point you will have seen nish and it would be like guys doesn't seem like you're doing anything but on the back end there's stuff happening well you know harry that we promised you an episode every day in july and we're also putting out youtube videos in july not every day but first of july is our youtube starting that's the day so we've spent a lot of june preparing for what is to come in the next month for a while yeah but the past couple of days have been intense

because we've been filming a lot together yeah and tomorrow we've got a studio we've just got stuff going on yeah and we were just having a conversation off the pod i was like how did alfie days do that like alfie days how did you do that would you mind explaining what did he do did he do everyday vlogs i'm pretty sure he was vlogging he was a daily vlogger for a while which how how how though i actually don't know because we vlog a portion of the day or like we feel it will take me hours and hours and hours to make something that looks good yeah and that feels nice yeah i guess i could make slop but i don't want to but maybe he was making slop i mean i would hate to i've seen some

of his videos and they did you know they weren't speaking to me personally but it's just a lot of work yeah it's insane well work quote unquote well it's just a lot of work yeah it's insane well work quote unquote well it's just a lot of intention behind it like you have to film everything it's just a weird mindset yeah well how are you guys anyway i'd love to know let's leave the gap there fill in the blanks yeah oh well i hope yeah well how are you anyway other than being tired how are you um i have no foresight beyond the past kind of six hours. What the fuck have we done? I'm really coming from a void, but I am excited to have this episode.

Me too. I've also just edited the video version of last episode, the one you had on Monday. Yeah, so maybe reflect on that because we've spoken about your thoughts on social media your thoughts on the visual yeah it's your first time editing a video a video and anything in a while yeah yeah yeah i haven't edited the podcast in over since i lived in her and hill and that was over a year ago a year and a half ago yeah yeah so that's crazy um i loved it i think it has been about two years yeah probably has yeah i remember editing that i still remember the switchover happened um i have no idea that's a shame yeah but i don't know but i've really enjoyed it i really enjoyed the process process of it was really nice yeah

yeah because we were just having a conversation i was like my fear my my fear in life generally is sephie doing anything she doesn't want to do yeah that would keep me up all night every night as soon as i don't enjoy it it's i think it's kind of there's a bit of a duty to say when you don't enjoy it like my whole thing with you editing as well it's like because i edited for the first two years three i don't know edited for the first first year no it was two years we've been doing it four years if i've done it twice yeah two yeah two years then it's been two years so i edited for the first two years i remember it being like it got to a point where i was like i don't enjoy doing this anymore and then it was thank god you enjoy it like this is why and i love doing the reels and tiktoks and

stuff which is like your nightmare and whenever you're like oh i feel like both of us would be like i feel bad like i feel bad sitting editing something when you're sat for example watching kardashians which i love which i love that though but it it sets my teeth on edge it makes me feel bad because i'm like i know i'm being bad company but also then you're like i feel bad and i'm like but i love it which is ideal like it literally well that's what you can ask the most fun thing about but i am not good today i'm so tired i know i don't really know why i know but it's gonna be a cozy app that's perfect yeah i've got ozzy on my lap we're in joggers now he looks adorable

yeah chilled vibes chilled vibes so we put on the story earlier obviously monday's ep was a bit of a mental health yeah angle yeah i feel like we haven't done something like that in a while did monday's episode feel fresh to you or did it feel like well how did that yeah it felt like a real honest conversation and that seems to be a lot of the feedback that we got on it as well seems to be people saying like i haven't heard this conversation you know maybe maybe before i don't know if they said i haven't heard this conversation like this is the conversation i want to hear i've never heard anything like it yeah people seem to be very um it's breaking ground people really liked it from what i saw which is very nice really nice yeah so in the hopes of doing the whole like

monday we chat thursday we chat off the back of your messages that came through from the monday yeah we're filling in the gaps basically on the mental health conversation you heard what we thought in the last episode here's our thoughts on what you think yeah it's quite scary let's make it even messier yeah um should we go straight in yeah let's do anything to get off the chest no not at all well actually one thing um is that i did a new eyeliner today um just like in my water i just use a different eyeliner yeah and it's made my eyes really dry i don't like it so i'm like really blinking what made you use a new one then because i didn't know i couldn't find it in my bag i like but i just couldn't find it and then i was like fuck it i'll use that one an old one no new one but just

like i don't know if it's necessarily like a waterline eyeliner like it was just like a pencil yeah pencil but like it's more like a smudgy the crayon one that i have oh i just like put that i just think it has dried my eyes is it a bit more of a shadow no it is i can show you later it's just like a thick eyeliner i can see that it's been bugging you so i've just been a bit if you're watching the video of this you luckily harry don't have to see this but if the video poor you when in come july when these youtube videos start rolling around they'll see that i'm very um blinky today but it's fine it's fine though i just you know blinking back tears yeah but i just put some more eyeliner in there you did you committed i did

the other eye look we have to commit to the bit yeah of eyeliner anything calling yeah so wait let's see what we ask what is missing from the mental health discourse answer anonymously to be featured in an upcoming app uh-huh always anonymously featured unless we know you by name we're giving you a direct shout out harry and i'll speak directly to you i find that weird in um podcasts when they'll be like sarah said joanna little kitten say i would die why have you said that first of all don't expose me as listening to your podcast yeah this is private i find that so i'd be mortified i just think it's like god people don't write in question boxes with the idea that's gonna get get shared. No.

And that's why I always put answer to be anonymously featured. Because it's like, I hope you guys feel safe here. But I really would like to emphasize, I'm not outing anyone's dirty laundry. Just Seffy's. It's just our shit that comes out here. And boy, is it dirty. I would hate to be named and shamed on somebody's thing. It's outrageous. Or like, I used to hate hate i feel like it's not as

common now but when a youtuber would like ask for questions for example and they screenshot and they put the person's like username and photo and the question would be like where'd you get your dress from and it's like oh don't embarrass me like that it was private i just wanted to know where the dress and also now i now i don't really care where the dress is from but in that moment i did yeah i found it now yeah yeah i yay yay but i like to pass it over you know otherwise i feel like i'm like sophie what do you think of this oh okay this is quite interesting okay so they think the thing this person whose username is they think that the conversation is missing discussion about the complex mental health issues example eg schizophrenia psychosis discourse tends

to be to focus on the more palatable conditions which are obviously super important but there are still serious stigma and people don't show up when it gets difficult to support to support someone whose needs are particularly challenging to meet sorry i read that really badly but it's over four different boxes yeah god yeah um yeah i think that's really true thoughts i completely agree i think there isn't at all enough representation of things that are really you know really sort of um i don't know things that have been like you know the movie split i love this movie so much but it is obviously really controversial because it is about, oh God, what's it called? DPD?

What's it called? What's the thing where it's like split personalities? Oh my God. You know when it's like people switch and, what's it called? Fucking hell. I think it might be DPD, but I don't want to put that in. Dissociative Identity Disorder. DID.

Okay, I was close. DPD. DPD is like postage tracking. Yeah, it's like, oh, we're here tomorrow. DID. Yeah. And things like that, where it's like, that film made it into like a monster

that's trying to kill everyone. And he's switching between these personalities. And one of them's like a little baby who's really kind of creepy. And one's like an old woman. And's really kind of creepy and one's like a um old woman like and one is the beast and he's gonna kill you all like that sort of thing i remember when that movie came out it being quite like it's horrible it's like you don't know what you've done yeah that's really you've just fed into a narrative about this thing and have i already spoken about that conversation i overheard in Costa? Jesus I don't know. Have I

spoken about that guys? The conversation I heard overheard in Costa? I don't know but I've been telling everyone I know about it. Same okay well should I just do it again because I feel like it really is exactly the subject. So I was sitting in Costa. I i haven't already told you humanizing experience it was so fascinating and it was a really the thing that stood out to me in the whole thing was like the way the man was telling the story and the like sanity that he was talking about it from and like the amount of clarity and like distance and like he'd thought about everything he'd done but obviously so i'm listening to this conversation um in costa i was there with my journal and i ended up just writing down everything he was saying it was so fascinating for an hour i could

not describe in the moment and was like i was like i can't obviously journal while this is going on i'm just writing his words down because it's so interesting and yeah i think it just feeds into this whole thing he was talking about he basically he worked in a hospital over covid catering and he basically had a psychosis and ended up like sleep deprived psychosis and he was talking about there being like dead bodies going past the kitchen and like they were obviously completely unprepared for it all like it was in the he was i'd never seen anything like it obviously you're a caterer and then all of a sudden you're dealing with like it's crazy shit yeah and then he was so traumatized he had sleep deprived psychosis

and ended up like in attacking his mom um really badly and he's like a 40 year old man sort of thing um ended up obviously going to prison like um going to um what's it called like a uh like what's the words for like a mental health facility i guess um going somewhere like that and basically um dealing with just something absolutely awful and the thing he was saying is he had 13 days where he was um dealing with this like sleep deprived psychosis because he didn't sleep for four days straight dealing with the symptoms of that like hallucinations terrifying things by the sound of it um and then obviously that after he managed to sleep he was um traumatized from everything that had happened but he was he had his normal brain back symptoms

yeah his brain was um functioning in the normal way and god the way he was discussing it i think there's a real um stigma that people that do things like that are gonna be these like it's gonna be the joker like it's gonna be someone that is um misfit in society and like um you can't relate to them but the way that he was just telling the story and like the way that he was telling it to this woman it sounded like he did like this facebook post kind of explaining everything and they had met up it was so fascinating um but it was really making me think about like yeah the stigma of it all and how it really can be anyone that faces these things and we do have this idea that it's like oh that could never happen to me or

though yeah those are sort of the misfits of society those are real peripheral people and they're not these are people that are working in hospitals for example over covid it's like that's oh that's me like i know you yeah i know you and look you are me yeah yeah it was just so interesting yeah but i think as well going back to what that person said it's like it really it's no wonder that there's little to no oh al's ringing me do you want to answer no okay i thought it's lizzie's birthday today so i would answer if it's lizzie's birthday but like if it was lizzie but it's um going back to what that person said it's really like it's no wonder that there's little to no representation for so many different mental health issues because we really have not um set up the

terrain for people to feel comfortable doing that it's like yeah you don't feel comfortable in a world where everyone's kicking back and relaxing going i love this movie split i love andy taylor joy i love what's the name james mcavoy james mcavoy i love james mcavoy oh yeah queen yeah great great film um yeah like it's like yeah no wonder yeah nobody's comfortable to speak when you feel so um ridiculed by literally other human being your peers on the planet yeah it's really horrifying but it's why generally as well like representation is really difficult because for in order for people to see them it's so important for people to recognize themselves in other human beings it's really important to like relate to the people that you're surrounded by yeah that

you're surrounding yourself with really important for you to see it like on screens in your media in your content in art wherever but in order for that to be a thing that we can access we have to establish a terrain where people feel comfortable to talk about it and have access to yeah speak and yeah and live and yeah we don't it's so so the world is every day we deal with the consequences of living in a world that is set up so unfairly every single day in every single little way yeah we face that is what it is yeah yeah cool that's a really interesting comment i hope we did it any sort of level of justice i don't think we did but you know well when the movie split comes up you know it's gonna be good oh god i would watch that again soon like i've only seen the first one

you've been on an m night chamelan kick though recently yeah i have uh i don't really know why well i watched that one film the other one wasn't technically his it was so him though we went to go see the watched or in america it's called the watchers um and it's not him it's his kid i don't know if it's a son or daughter or whatever but like i think it's his daughter yeah i actually don't know his kid did it but it's just like i feel like you wrote this m night so you've got your um signature all over this that actually i mean i was engrossed in the film we did enjoy it i gave it like maybe two or three stars i can't remember yeah but at one point during the film i said no you should be in the cinema i literally couldn't help myself i can't remember what it was um made me say no i maybe like the door closing someone being stupid

no like yeah please god no yeah but that was a fun um it's a classic sort of him kind of film yeah it's kind of like split because that was me really in a slump yeah and i came out so seffy texted me like kind of in the morning yeah being like if you fancy sitting in a dark room with me and drinking some coke zero tonight i'm going to the cinema blah blah blah and i was like that's not gonna happen like yeah be real seffy deacon just so it doesn't suit be real seffy deacon no because it's either poppy deacon or persephone deacon or persephone deacon but seffy deacon no one ever calls me persephone madeline ketchell hasler deacon full title persephone madeline ketchell hasler deacon full name should i say that one like is that bad to have your full name well no but it's almost like oh that's like my actual identity

yeah i'm fine um it's not it's a crazy yeah i was like poppy deacon that's not gonna happen sephie but then come to it was like 5 p.m and i was like shit i'm on a wave and i'm going get the shoes on let's go yeah and i text you being like you're still going to the cinema and i was like shit i'm on a wave and i'm going get the shoes on let's go yeah and i text you being like you're still going to the cinema and i felt bad because i thought i could kind of imagine you being like i'm not gonna do that anymore i'm so glad you said yes i i'm i'm specifically so glad i'm so glad for a few reasons yeah well i wanted to go and i'm glad you were there and it was so nice that you came um and I'm glad that you know to have a fun evening with you and I'm also so glad because I wasn't expecting I love me for a few weeks well

that and also you know I really wasn't and also I wasn't expecting it to be as scary as it was and I go to cinema often on my own but I don't often go um to see a horror movie and I kind of thought okay that will be fine um but jesus christ i would have been shit scared if you weren't there so i remember saying when we came out i was like would you have watched that on your own yeah i would have been really scared it was spooky yeah yeah it really was i think i'm so in the habit at the moment of going on my own that i just didn't really think you just assume it's, I'll just go do something. Blah, blah, blah.

It's like, oh, you're actually going to be scared. Also, the most gutting thing has happened. You know about this already. What? So I went to go see Kingdom of the Planet of the Apes. Great film. Went to go see Kingdom of the Planet of the Apes. Got a £60 parking ticket.

Oh. I have had. God. Well, that will bring on a mental health crisis, won't it? Also, I drove to a cheaper cinema. So it'd be cheaper. It was like, okay, I won't do an eight pound ticket i'll do the five pound ticket and i got a fucking six pound parking ticket and let me tell you now i've had three parking tickets within two months what would fucking what the hell say to that what's her name who's that

something bad the woman who wrote the secret uh ronda yeah oh living in that would say yeah you get your comeuppance for that to save three pounds i spent 60 pounds you spent 60 i couldn't believe it and i have never had a parking ticket really in my life maybe i've had one before three in the past in all different locations around my house one in group one in bristol yeah one in oxford what the fuck i actually said to you earlier i was like it's lucky you're not driving around brighton because i would have them all over the place it's absolutely awful though and one of them wasn't even parking bristol i was going down like a one-way street and i was like that wasn't me it can't have been me even though it obviously was me and they there's

a little photo of me going the wrong way down a one-way street i was like what the fuck literally i am not luckily it's like safe driving it's just bad parking, other than that one. Yeah. But, like, what the hell? How do I not realise I'm doing it at the time? Well, then we were saying the other day, you've been in a haze and a daze. I've been in my flop era, famously.

Well, famously. It's been a year. No, no. I mean, it's been a year. Like, this year has been a year. Not, like, it's lasted 12 months. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's lasted six months. But, like, it's been a year this year. year has been a year not like it's been 12 yeah it's lasted six but like it's been a

year this year it has been as in 2024 this week has been a year 2024 has been a year so far bloody hell but i did actually declare bankruptcy i did actually declare to myself um i also did declare bankruptcy just i'll declare it loud jesus christ i can't wait till we get paid soon two days i think i think you might be wrong okay i think you might be pushing it i might need to borrow some money you already are i've already got a tab running honestly but i have declared that my flop period is over yeah i have declared that good i'm happy to hear that i could re-enter soon but i am i am declaring it the change of scenery does everything like coming to brighton it's like well try as you might but you you don't look flopping to me i don't you're

popping i agree popping deacon what was he saying to you on your poppers the other day yeah what was that i'm just making a poppers joke really all right in your charlie xcx poppers era boy am i um anything cooler for you 22 minutes sorry i quite like you choosing them just i feel like i'm a bit mental healthy so it's nice to kind of i don't like the pit you know what i mean yeah oh god that wing's so depressing we actually had a funny i thought it meant something was depressing i was like no i thought what i pictured was a chicken wing in the corner that you'd like left for days and i was like where kind of would be me i was like i thought you like looked in the corner like god that wing is so depressing it's like jesus we did have a funny thought um a while ago where was that where you were like it makes me laugh when they say i just relate to wings so

much it's like yeah you know they're like depressed no there was one comment that was like um what did they say was it um what was it i think it might have been after cambridge you were like it just makes me laugh when you're like you know when they say and you know i was really listening to wing blah blah blah it's like yeah i bet you were sorry to hear that people I think it's funny we kind of get I think it's funny who says I relate to Sefi and I relate to Wing it's a real like it's an insight into how you feel um in just many ways oh god but neither one are good to relate to I must say you don't really want to relate to either oh so many of these are so interesting I literally don't really want to relate to either. Yay. Oh, so many of these are so interesting. I literally don't know which one to pick.

Go on. Go on. Oh, I've lost it. This is... Oh, no, actually, I won't... No, no, I'm not going to say the name. I know them, but I'm not going to say the name. Oh, okay.

Who is it? It's fucking gross. Can't shower, do dishes, keep the house clean while depressed. It's repetitive. It's annoying to have the same problem all the time and feel guilty. When I have the same... When I have to talk about the same issues and feelings repeatedly yeah thoughts i think it's a good message to be like it's fucking gross it's like it's not just like it's not cute or like it's not i'm not being perfect right now it's ugly like it's not um it's

not hot it's not and it's not interesting or any of those things it's just um you know how sometimes when a bad thing happens about oh at least you've got the story it's like it's not that it's not a case it's so deeply not that not that acas powers the world's best podcasts. Here's a show that we recommend. this. I'm Owen Ever. I'm Lane Kaplan-Levinson, and this is a field guide to gay animals. A podcast about queerness in the natural world. The animal kingdom is queer, and we are

a part. Find a field guide to gay animals on Spotify, Apple, or wherever you get your podcasts. ACAST helps creators launch, grow, and monetize their podcasts everywhere a cast.com it's like you don't have a story and i think that's the thing yeah i don't want to get lost in my words here but like kind of in the last episode when i was saying like when people kind of speak about things you can tell it's like it's not really coming from this.

It's like there's depressed and there's depressed. It's like okay it's cute. You want to say like oh I'm just depressed. That's cute. Yeah. I definitely don't believe you. And I am insulted. Definitely.

Like it's not it's not. Yeah it's gross. It's grim. It's literally life ruiningruining life-ending stuff yeah do you know one that i think people do that with a lot people i think like to say oh i've got adhd and which obviously we know that's like a it's like almost like iconically one that's like people die self-diagnosed sort of thing yeah which really it's like two years currently on the nhs to get uh that's crazy start testing

which also i'm i don't doubt you have adhd like you definitely do you definitely do 100 you definitely do yeah um but i do think it's like i don't know and the rest and the rest truly and we haven't got all day people there's a long list yeah but i do find there there's a funny sort of ocd i think is one as well that people throw around a lot yeah they do but then i also think it's really funny when people the reluctance to there are ones that are cute to throw around totally but suddenly say i say oh i think if i say i think you've got adhd versus i think you've got autism yeah look how people react to that but people are crazy when they like i actually think the the amount that autism is made into like a

joke we've been speaking about this recently makes me fuming actually actually a lot in life yeah we've been talking about it in terms of like the acoustic thing yeah acoustic um it's yeah it's everywhere yeah i don't like it yeah yeah yeah yeah of course it's just like um yeah i just find there a real lack of empathy especially with things like you know love on the spectrum yes which we have spoken about yeah which it is different to the undatables undeniably the undatables either i have to say i've watched both i've seen bits of both i've seen about two episodes of both so i'm not an expert on this at all but i also am yeah you're not an expert on the shows you're an expert on the reality maybe yeah um i the undatables was like a show on channel four um where like it was literally called the undateables and it was about people a lot of them with autism trying to find love and it was presented as a joke there

are so many memes within like british culture from that show it's still running i know i don't think it is okay um but there's so many memes from it like for example plenty more fish in the sea for me if you remember that one i do know that one a king charles cavalli espanol something about that yeah people throw these memes out all the time sorry final episode date april 2020 rank probably just right on cue for love on the spectrum to start probably which i do think love on the spectrum is different there's definitely an empowering representative representation angle of love on the spectrum. But there is undeniably a spectacle that people want to see with people with autism trying to date. And some of the things that I've seen on that show, you cannot tell me. You cannot tell me you're not presenting that person as absurd, as a joke.

You try and tell me i mean there might be like infantilized sexualized like yeah made made to look like a joke yeah and there might be some really empowering scenes in that i've seen some people that seem to be um people from the show talk about it too totally and like yeah i'm sure um there are great scenes and their experiences are valid in every way but it's some of the things i've seen on that and also the way i've seen that show discussed and the people that i know that watch that show i know their intentions they're the same people that thought the undated was cute and all of these things and it's not right actually

but that to me fits into a similar vein of um fictional like like split it's like yeah totally everything making a spectacle it totally is yeah but even when you were saying like say like oh i've got adhd versus i've got autism people i think are throwing around autism so much at the moment i think it's really yeah i think adhd and i think autism is um well i hope it gets thrown around and becomes more normalized and more people are willing to claim it than people are with adhd like adhd still to me seems that um people are happy to claim that if i said to someone oh i think you've got adhd versus me saying someone i think you've got autism one of them seems to bring out a defensiveness of like no i don't what makes you think that and it

i think there's a real um people are fucking rude about autism just in the most normalized way actually like it's so yeah cruel and evil and i think the amount of people that i see throwing out like um people saying words like oh he's aughty um the tism the tism when you don't have it it's not right no it's not right no it's not right it's disgusting yeah and it's cruel and horrible like i hate it yeah and it makes my blood boil and i hate the sort of the way that we've like enabled ourselves to be like what some are accepted and some are not it really does go back to that first message of like if you are willing to use these words like fucking tism shit like that um all of them and if i don't know okay two things i'm gonna say here one of them we've spoken a bit

about i'm not gonna name them and i would urge you to do the same okay it's not someone in our ranks okay it's a far it's a north star it's like it's miles away in the distance it's literally like calling out justin bieber it's like it's it's not they're in no way close to us okay yeah but i just wouldn't want to muddy their name unless we're doing like a full because in many ways we love but it's just intriguing we're just a deeper discussion because i think i bring up this person in terms of like race and class yeah and we've also brought up this person in terms of concepts of being neurodivergent and using neurodivergency i don't know if that's a word to capture an audience so playing on stereotypes yeah or like stereotypical neurodivergent characters yeah

without social media as well without without for example being autistic it's like you want to be kooky quirky cutesy girl yeah but within the most socially acceptable way super palatable super commercial super like um yeah with all the privilege you want to keep all of your privileges but you also want to play into the bit of autism that people like and i think we've seen a huge rise in like it's kind of maybe like a not like other girls thing it's like super relatable personable it fits into the kind of authentic quote-unquote yeah social media content that like it's like yep you've got the classic influences but i'm different and here's why i've got a personality i'm screaming i've got a personality i've got personality it's like but you don't you've just taken all of the bits of personality

from people that are living through something that you'll never understand yeah yeah and you can't be honest you've never even encountered you have never thought about it yeah yeah you've never even encountered it you wouldn't know what to do with that if you actually those are the people you bullied at school those are the people you don't like those are the people you laugh at on your tv those are the freaks the people that you think are weird or they're not wearing the right whatever those are the people you bully actually yeah you're nothing like them yet you're happy to appropriate all the things that make them cool so you've had to put an act on to garner an audience yeah interesting and i would even add you've had to hijack from the

coolest people on the world yeah across race and class that aren't your own too in my opinion yeah no names are named here and they're literally one of the most successful working english girls that's as of right now but just to put that out there anyway um and i was also gonna say on the wave of like adhd autism all of these things i feel like i hate to bring up the pandemic but you know i love it yeah um i feel like post pandemic and even during the pandemic it's given and also kind of like the infographic culture social media buzzword therapy like pseudo therapy online whatever blah blah blah all of these things has made people have a new awareness

of themselves and um i think in a way it's really empowering for so many people especially sorry to keep going on the autism angle yeah but autism in women we've been speaking about since i met you literally yeah that you i'm sure you can take the floor if you want, but just the ways that young women obviously are encouraged to essentially just not be themselves, the way that that can play out in an autistic girl is really damaging, harmful, difficult, et cetera. And I love to see lots of young women

getting to know themselves in new ways with the internet, in their lives, whatever. It's the most important thing. However that plays yeah etc totally yeah and that's why i think don't be afraid of these terms like i think i think self-diagnosis whatever it's like don't be afraid of being like i think i might have adhd i think i might have autism the more normalized these obviously I'm not saying to everyone go and fucking say I've got um I do this I've got OCD ha ha ha that's a bit OCD of me when people say things like don't go around fucking um sort of using these words as jokes but I think if you actually want to I don't know I think the more they get discussed sort of openly of like I am wondering at the moment whether I have ocd i'm going to look

at that blah blah without everyone going you're misdiagnosing yourself and blah blah i think actually it's so important that i would be i would love to see more people think it more people socially being like um i think i might have autism yeah as if it's not this dirty thing that's like oh i'm not one of those freaks it's like how dare you i do also think it fits into the broad issue i always talk about like it's a shame that people with vaginas know nothing about their vaginas like people we know nothing about our insides generally like there's so much going on with us and self-diagnosing is a really like crucial way of getting by for like loads of people who essentially are too poor to have access to like good health care literally that can help them understand symptoms that they're dealing with themselves it's like

really really important well it's information and information i just find information being withheld about you and yourself and your um body in particular or even like culturally like if you think about like groups of people's like history being burned for example it's so disempowering it's so harmful yeah to not be able to have access to like the knowledge of who you are and like how to live with that in like a real sense it's like really fucked up that's why i always hate you like such a luxury to have like a portrait of your granddad for example it's like it's really like it really is i guess day to day it doesn't mean much but it's really important i think like for the soul to be able to know like where you've come from and like have access to medical histories and like all of these really

real things that so many people just don't have access to in a million years yeah definitely god bless the internet in so many ways hey truly like actually god blessed the internet i feel like we are giving something real yeah me too it feels very real my friend emily has just messaged me saying oh my god you'll never guess who i just met on the year five residential hoping for five residential that sounds so fun it's not fun i thought it's gonna be a celebrity who is it miss foster just a teacher we used to nice teacher or bad teacher she never taught me yeah nice teacher she never taught me she never taught me i can't speak but yeah nice teacher that's funny i thought it's gonna be because on my year six residential i

thought i saw dick from dick and dom i thought you just meant i thought i saw dick and i was like no tell me more tell me more dick from dick and dom right i thought i swore is that bogey yeah that's one of them that's like the blonde more blonde one oh he used to play that on his own no no no he was like on a trip there like on it was like with his family or something no i've got lost in that all right never mind no go on i thought they used to shout bogeys yeah they did right but then when you said no that was just one of them i was like oh just one of them said bogeys i thought it was both oh no no sorry yeah they both that go there yeah yeah i was like that's weird for one one of them imagine if one of us just just went to a shop

yeah i obviously used to love dick and Dom in Da Bungalow best show ever best show ever Da Bungalow did you used to type that on MSN? Da yeah just checking just trying to understand just scoping you out

I used to just do everything on MSN but Dick and Dom I used to just think they were the funniest people of all time and oh my god it was CBBC it was like Saturday morning stuff and there was one yeah they'd go into like libraries and they'd just go it would go they'd start off quite quiet so one of them would be like bogeys bogeys bogeys bogeys bogeys it would be crazy um and I remember thinking this was the funniest thing I've ever seen in my life they're in a supermarket and he goes oh some tissues good for wiping some

that was so clever that he didn't wove it in which does show how young i was but i was like god that's so cool that he did and you thought you saw him but you didn't yeah i think i well i was just it was on our year six residential to derbyshire and i was like sure yeah we did like a uh two night trip never heard such a word residential oh i don't know if we actually called it that it was just like the trip to derbyshire yeah it was just like to a youth hostel in derbyshire um and i was like oh my god guys i just saw dave from dick and dom definitely just a man but i was like she my god guys I just saw a date from Dick and Dom. Definitely just a man. But I was like what I just saw him. She's creating the fun for the people. We've got nothing else going on.

We're in Derbyshire or whatever. And I was a bit of like a compulsive liar sort of attention seeker anyway. Yeah fair. Fair enough. Okay keep delivering me something. I'm loving this little set up.

Yeah me too it's really nice. I'm loving this little set up. Yeah, me too. It's really nice. I'm really kind of putting you to work. Yeah. It's nice. Yeah, it's really nice. For the listener at home, she's got a lovely Don't Worry Darling headband going on once again.

I've got a Wings grey tracksuit on with a grey headband. Which just works perfectly. And I'm definitely giving Don't Worry Darling. Yeah, you are. Well, I'm also kind of giving sort of, I don't really know. Yeah. It's not really giving that much. It doesn't need to.

No, it's giving everything. Almost if it was in my dress up from earlier, I would be giving really Don't Worry Darling with this headband. Yeah. But no, but with that, with the grey, full grey on right now, you're giving the ballerina the ballerina don't worry darling um let me just she is a don't worry darling thank you so you whatever that means i know a trapped woman

a weird kind of metaverse captured by harry she's got no memory she where did you go on your honeymoon yeah the poconos the poconos and let Where did you go on your honeymoon? Yeah, the Poconos. The Poconos. And let me guess, you met on a train. Bent down and picked it up. God, I could watch that. It's so good. Like, it's really style over substance, which is my kind of vibe. For sure.

The thing with that film that I remember just being like, that was such an interesting twist that you just skimmed over. Yeah. It was so interesting. Like, give me more about him going to work harry styles make it quite joker come up twice in this episode make it quite like show me the bleakness of what harry's doing there and like did he kidnap her like what happened here like did you break up like show i know they broke up but show me more of the stuff here broke up so yeah i guess you could say that but like didn't they break up

and then he like oh i thought you meant like in the world like at the end or whatever no spoilers it's like yeah i guess you could call it when you try to escape the metaverse i guess you kind of broke up guys it's like near it was mutual yeah it's kind of a breakup i guess but like give me more of that it's like this so interesting but you just showed me her cracking some eggs for hours which i loved i i love it but give me that in a montage i don't need all of that in slow motion her looking at some eggs i mean this i couldn't agree more with and i it's just actually horrible this isn't a thing okay work system reformation four-day work week please oh god letters i'm so freaking lowly come from two guys with a podcast as well

i couldn't agree more guys yeah god four-day work we'd be working more than we have in our lives that's not true this is an everyday gig this is all day every i i'm kind of alice i'm kind of don't you don't worry darling to me i've got your body i'm like cooking i'm in a corner come home to a whiskey i drive off don't follow me oh my god i could watch that now yeah oh god the work the capitalism yeah honestly capitalism v your brain yeah good title for this do you think i think we touched on capitalism enough no we don't but good episode good it would be yeah i liked what you did there's more of that came from um it's fucked up it's horrible also though i remember i don't even know where i've heard this because i didn't read the study myself um but someone told me or saw it on a tiktok or something probably it was like there's a study that says like four day work week

and the productivity went up by like a million percent and it's like obviously fucking obviously and it i guess covid really like showed this to um sort of corporations that people don't need to be there people don't need to be tied to their desk that time for productivity to essentially stay the same or go up because obviously the fact that they're now happy to have everyone work from home or go in twice a week or blah blah blah showed that did nothing to their productivity or the money or anything they wouldn't allow people to do that otherwise in a really cynical sense it's like yeah if you want people to make you more money and make them work harder just give them a little gift every now and then yeah i'll perk them right up it's like yeah be like a kind of abusive husband it's like yeah just kind of yeah drip feed them just enough yeah so that you can buy them flowers every now and then

yeah totally so you can keep cheating on them exactly do you remember make it just sweet enough that they don't want to leave yeah and that's the kind of um marxism that i like to bring into my podcast it's like really it's fucked up it's like yeah your husband hates you by the way crazy and i couldn't agree more yeah but i remember when there was do you remember the film the it's either the internship or the intern the one at not the one with anne hathaway the one with like owen wilson at google i think it's the internship okay um you're thinking of the one with the guy and anne hathaway the old man whatever his name is that like men like him like boys like that actor no what's the one with what's that guy

the intern two oh god i can't be bringing in sequels no it's not a sequel i'm thinking of this movie owen wilson did you say the intern shit yeah yeah and maybe vince vaughn but let's see vince vaughn he's a classic is he oh my god dylan o'brien's in it can you see this the internship i've never seen this they're an iconic we'll put something on the screen so you can see that if you're looking at this video um yeah so that film the intern right what's the name of that just just some quick reason the intern what's the name of that actor oh robert de niro that's the one the boys like men love that actor yeah yeah they do i i'm not fussed i've never met a woman that is fussed and could you have been tom hanks intern for me and just see job openings for Tom Hanks intern?

Tom Hanks, what's it called? Intern. Like, I don't think it is intern, but it's something of the like. Interview? Oh no, Tom Hanks interview. No. There's something that he's done. He's kind of done a bit of everything.

I can just see him stomping around. What about Tom? No, no, don't worry. I can do this all day. His intern is called vincent dowling nice okay oh no maybe not he's he worked for him somehow um in the internship with owen wilson and vince fortman and dylan o'brien by the looks of it um there's someone else in that as well jesus oh my god you know who's in it nick from half moon's tale god king but he doesn't look good in it i bet he only looks good in that one black coat just kind of standing there moody don't you get out of that car boy look at me through the through the rearview mirror yeah wow yeah um yeah in the internship yeah yeah yeah that is set at google they're trying to win

an internship at google it's all the people that don't know b is set at google they're trying to win an internship at google it's all the people like didn't know brian's the world they're like cool hipster people they all like want to work at google these two boomers come in owen wilson vince vaughn and they're like and they're like why would we hire you basically like we're good right like we we're google or maybe it's apple i don't know okay i think it's google and the whole thing the whole messaging around google i remember being they have restaurants there they've got a bullpen working culture massages there anytime unlimited food oh my god and they're clever that whole film is just marketing for great propaganda yeah i can't remember which one is the same it's great marketing it benefited both of them because

i can't remember which one it is yeah it's great marketing. It benefited both of them because I can't remember which one it is. Yeah. It's just basically a huge advert that says how amazing it would be to work there. Yeah. And it worked. The whole thing I remember being with Google was that because they don't have to work at all, they stay there all night. Of course.

Like you don't have to, you're not there nine to five. You don't have to come in at all if you don't want to so it means that people come all the time and they stay there the whole time and they work yeah it's like that's clever capitalism people make it so nice that people don't know that they won't leave rather than make it so fucking horrible that people are begging to put it down to four days rather than five goes without saying but people it just the world is so um the corporations are so um desperate to make it as horrible horrible horrible as possible so where's the ball pits at least make capitalism a bit colorful yeah at least get me a give me a massage whilst i'm doing your horrible dirty work um if you're struggling at the moment to like show up in your life work school etc because of your brain it's a horrible place to be yeah and

it really is you're there's nothing really like i'm gonna do the usual like well you're not the only one and yeah people love you yeah including us. We're top of the list, in fact. We're there. Hey, second wing and little Aussie here having his bath time. Right, shall we go? I think that just about takes us to the end of this session.

When you're putting a microphone next to a dog's arse. It's fun. I'm spanking it. Okay. If you don't hear from us, assume the worst.