Goes Without Saying - surviving a Flop Era: i do my own stunts

Episode Date: June 23, 2024

podmothers sephy & wing enter the chat: spiralling on the embarrassment of failing, tangible anxiety hacks and lessons, the nuance and complexities of "flop eras", small towns and coming home, intrusive thoughts, friendship, and freedom. ✷see more ✷ www.instagram.com/sephyandwing ✷ www.youtube.com/@sephyandwing ✷ www.tiktok.com/@sephyandwingshop ✷ www.sephyandwing.co.uk Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Wendy's has a new breakfast deal. Mix and match two items of your choice for only $4. Breakfast wrap, biscuit or English muffin sandwiches, small seasoned potatoes or small hot coffee. Choose two for $4 at Wendy's. Available for a limited time at Participating Wendy's in Canada. Taxes extra. Goes without saying, you're listening to Goes Without Saying with Sefi and Wing. I'm Wing. And I'm Sefi. And this episode is all about the classic, the infamous flop era. We are talking about the nuance and complexity

that comes with being not quite thriving, but not quite in the pits. You're somewhere in between, you're just getting by and you need a helping hand. We talk a lot about fulfillment, freedom, quite big abstract concepts. But we spice it up with a bit of chaos as always. Enjoy. Okay, so we're talking about flop eras. Yeah, okay.

Which we have done time and time again. Yeah, but it is a timeless subject. But they keep coming. The flop eras, they keep coming, they don't stop coming, etc. We've got flop eras up the wazoo. Yeah, we do. In abundance. Do you know what's slightly a flopiera right at this moment? I really wanted milk in my tea, like oat milk, but I just got too scared.

You couldn't be far as going downstairs and getting some. Well, I just, there were so many people, we were in the studio. They were not paying attention to us. No, I know, but I was just a bit like, no, I'll just have it black. And now it's like, I've got my little black too, which is fine, but. But you were in the mood for a milky tint. Since eating those cookies, but it's fine.

So that's just already flopping me out. Okay, so yeah, for you out there, Harry announced we directed to you. Yeah, set the scene. We, the setup in the studio, we're realizing like, it's literally. Ins the studio, we're realizing like it's literally. Insane. It's insane, like it's the most fun thing in the world.

Yeah. But there are so many little kind of pieces. So it's like, we're having this conversation now, but it's like, we're thinking about, is that button on or like, is that thing falling? Screwing stuff. We're screwing things up. It's just, it's the time when all my sort of.

Screwing and screwing things up. Yeah. When all my feminism goes out the window and I just want a man to do it. I'm like, where's the fucking man that can do that? That kind of is feminism for me. I wish I could be the person that, well the thing is, we can do it, we do it all.

We screw up the thing. We do it every time. And it's all set up, but I would love to come in, it doesn't have to be a man, but you know, wouldn't mind some eye candy in there. Yeah, put him to work. No, I think that's the feminist angle. Let's get that man to work, put him to good use. You walk into a room. If you're gonna be on this planet but you know, wouldn't mind some eye candy in here. Yeah, put him to work. There's a man in here. No, I think that's the feminist angle. Let's put that man to work.

Put him to good use. You walk into a room. If you're going to be on this planet, you might as well make yourself useful. And maybe he's even found some oat milk for my tea. Like, there's some things that have been put in order and we walk in, in this weird fictional land, and it's all ready for us. It'd be so nice. But for some reason, we get so flustered before.

Because it takes about 20 minutes, half an hour to do all this stuff which isn't a lot it's hardly hard work guys. But we're quite dumb with this sort of thing like it'll be like fuck I need to move that microphone to the other side and it's like why don't we just turn that round and then it's on the right side. I don't think that is that we're dumb it just takes time. Okay. It takes time and it's really manual. I find it very flustering. We're not really manual. It's like what, I'm a manual labourer. I don't have the brain. Get the high vis on. It feels like you need a high vis in here, it's pitch black in here.

That's how we like it. Honestly, we come to a studio that's like really well lit, like huge natural light, we close the huge, the blind and we make it pitch black in here. That's what I like to see. A dungeon. All right. Yeah. Apart from that, we're obviously not,

I was actually thinking whilst we were doing the setup, how I actually said, I can't remember what the words, I said it's not, oh, what was the word I used? I don't know. Do you remember? When I was like, it's hardly like a kind of homemade situation, it's like somehow we've wrangled our way into a studio.

Yeah. There's a lot of technical stuff going on here. We've got like industrial microphones. There's a lot of things. Which we put bows on. And it was almost like shit, right before my very eyes, I'm accustomed to like taking 20 minutes to set up a studio to record our podcasts.

Yeah, it was a real learning curve. It's a bit of a flash forward and it's like, oh, I'm not in quarantine on my laptop anymore. It's weird, isn't it? When I'm signing you, yeah. Suddenly, well, there's an office of a flash forward and it's like, oh, I'm not in quarantine on my laptop anymore. It's weird, isn't it? Yeah. Suddenly, well, there's an office of people working out there. That's the bit that I find the most jarring.

Chordage. In a workplace. That's the bit that always gets me. In a studio. Yeah, it's weird. Don't know how we did that. How did we get here, guys? Shout out to you lot who did that for us, I guess.

What the fuck? But it's taken a few floppy errors to get here. Oh my god. I've just exited one, I believe. So what makes you, yes, you said in the other episode, you have closed the chapter of that flop era. I think so. What makes you feel like you've left it behind?

Talk us through that, that ending of the flop era. I think having some of my own space has been huge. So basically, I have been for the last probably six months, been kind of like constantly staying at friends houses, like to the point where it's like, I've always just had a bag with like loads of underwear in, like my laptop, like all just like, my microphone usually just like loads of shit

shoved into a bag and I'm often going to your house To like events amazing here Stunning then I'm Bristol like I'm often just like going around with like a pink home basically Yeah, I'm just sort of like constantly constantly just got like everything I own in a bag. It has been so nice Just to like have a room and I do have a room of my own a room of one's own a room of one's own just to have like a space that's like, okay, I'm here for a month and like

All my stuff is it I've unpacked into drawers like everything just to feel like at home and like You can walk to the shop. Yeah, go and do this. Yeah on your own time like everything just to feel like at home and like... You can walk to the shop. You can go and do this on your own time. I can just do my own thing. And it's been, oh God, I really think it's been needed. You were missing that. I was, like I remember when I was in Spain, like and I'm not saying,

like it's a bit of a ridiculous flop here, isn't it? It's like I've been in Spain. I've been saying at my friend's house, I've been in Spain. I've been saying at my friend's house, I've been in Spain, I've been going to events. I've been, but also this is the thing, I've been having an amazing time. You've been having good times in there, yeah. I'm not gonna get into it all,

but there is just a whiplash effect that I've been having from the amazingness of everything. Yeah. And then other things as well. I just definitely have been living Hannah Montana existence, best of both worlds, but one maybe isn't so best. Like it has been very polarized

and it just feels really amazing to have my own space. Yeah, when I was in Spain, I was at my friend's house and it was so amazing. I had like my own bedroom there, we weren't sharing a room. And I unpacked and I was there for three nights and I was ill there. But it was one of those things where I was just there

and I was like, God, I've got all my stuff unpacked and I've got my own space and when I'm ready, I can go upstairs and sit on the balcony with my friends. But when I don't want to do that, I can just come back down and be in my room. And it's like, that is so weirdly infantilizing, like to be like, God, I've got my own bedroom. But it's like, oh, that does feel insanely,

you know, a safe space. It just felt so like I'd forgotten how much that is like a thing that you need as a human. And yeah, you can be going to events and you can be doing all this amazing stuff. But if you don't have that core need met of like a safe space, you have nothing really. And everything else is just chaos.

And like, yeah, it's so amazing. I am literally the luckiest person in the world to have places I can go and just like networks of people, which is just, I mean, I've been so grateful for how much I've stayed at yours, which has been so amazing. It's been the best. It's been so amazing.

But I do think having my own space and my own agenda and like. My own agenda. I've got my stuff going on. You're in itinerary. Yeah, yeah. It's almost like, oh, I wanna go on a date tonight? I will. I think that's stuff going on. You're in itinerary. Yeah. It's almost like, oh, I want to go on a date tonight? I will. I think that's it as well.

It's like you've come out of home as well and you're in a city environment. You're kind of back in your life, in your own life, like very much like, I think what I feel like I've been doing, and this is so weird, I have been kind of remembering who I am. Yeah. Which I do think. You're a young woman. Yeah, yeah. I'm not kind of a caretaker. Like that's, I'm not, I'm not a single mother actually. Which is how I felt for a while.

You don't live in a tiny bubble. No. You have a broad life and a huge world to explore. Yeah. Which is whilst I'm so grateful, I love the things that I'm escaping essentially are the most important things to me, but I also feel like, It's necessary.

It's just so amazing to remember. It's like, oh my God, I remember this person. I remember her life, what the fuck? She does loads of really cool stuff. Things that she enjoys, her hobbies, things that she might do on a Friday night, etc. And when you get that basic need met of like your own space and like all of the staff, of some basically freedom, I think I'm really talking about, everything else sort of falls into place and it's like, oh my god, it wasn't like there was anything wrong or anything like that. It was just that very basic thing wasn't being met, which means that like you felt trapped in

all of this stuff, which meant that nothing else could thrive at all. It's really Maslow's hierarchy of needs. It's like, well, that bottom of the pyramid is fucked up. Yeah. We can't get to the top at all. No, it's blocked. It's actually blocked. Yeah, but it's been really nice to Emerge from it and like just be like oh I remember this person Like I remember all this. Yeah. Yeah have hope restored Just be like a new hope and not Anakin help me everyone. You're my only hope. I could watch that soon I could watch it any day. Honestly. Any day now. Cut the cameras.

Would you guys mind just slipping across that while we... Oh my god, Star Wars. It would be a nice, it's a night I would love to put on that too. I haven't watched Star Wars in ages. Really? It's a nice room, I think. It's a really nice room. Relax and we've kind of made it a cinema

by turning all the lights off. It was a nice room before, we've kind of made it a horrible room. We made lights off. It was a nice room before we've kind of made it a horrible room. We made it at Sephian Wings Dungeon obviously where Bonanzas take place. Our manager Freya is coming here later. We're also vlogging this whole day and I believe we're hoping this is our first video on the YouTube channel. Yeah hopefully. So 1st of July hopefully you'll be seeing this. It's all mapped out so hopefully you end up seeing this somewhere. Hopefully it goes to plan.

You choose to watch. But Freya's coming here later and I mean it's a bit like, hi Freya, welcome to the pitch black cave that we record this from. Well we can turn the lights on when she gets here. We should be done by the time she gets here. So true. Yeah. One other thing I'm really excited for.

Oh. Sorry. Oh god. Yikes. The urgency. Yes, yes please. Just one other thing I'm really excited for. Sorry. Oh, God. Yikes. Gosh, the urgency. Yes, yes, please. Just one other thing I'm excited for. Yeah. And I think this is a thing just in terms of like

freedom flop era ending. I have two friends coming to stay in a few days and it has been, yeah, a year and a half since I moved home basically that I've had anyone in my- You can be the host. Yeah, in my space. It's like I haven't had anyone really staying in my bed, like staying in my room,

looking through my clothes, can I borrow anything? Like I haven't, I've been the one at everyone's house. It's gonna be so nice to be like, can I get you a cup of tea? Yeah, it's empowering. Like all of that. I'm really excited. I think it's just like, I've really missed being comfortable

in my own space, like not having like, oh shit, I've never even got dirty clothes with me. I'm really excited to be like, I've got all my stuff and my friends here. We had this conversation on the train where we seem to have often quite harrowing conversations. We do, we've been analysing why we do that as well. There's something there.

It's because we're in motion. Yeah, yeah we're in motion it's like you're leaving it all behind. That conversation you had you left it at Balcombe. It's all the way back there. That's in Who Was He first. We didn't bring that here to the studio. Yeah it's like we get on the train five minutes in I'm like so when you were eight and your dad said that to you how did that make you feel? We have great conversations. We can't help ourselves. Yeah but we were having this conversation on the train where you were saying like about staying at mine and yeah, like being the one moving around

and staying at people's and blah, blah, blah. And I was saying that that's like kind of what you're gonna have in a couple of days when your friends stay with you. Yeah. When you flip over from being the one who like doesn't have a safe space to be, also they're coming down for fun and it's not like they're looking for refuge. So it's a different ball game.

But for me, I was saying it's so nice. To me, I would have you every single day. It would just be, it's really fulfilling to myself to have lived through the shittiness of not having a safe place to live and needing so desperately to lean on literally whatever you can get in life in a really real way,

like friends, family, the government, for example, the council, literally in an extreme way, not having somewhere safe, then letting some years pass, getting through it, and having a safe space to offer, to live in for yourself is one thing, and then being able to extend it to people that you care about is just so.

Yeah, almost healing of that, of the childhood. Yeah, totally, and just fulfilling for the soul. Yeah, which I'm always aiming for. Yeah, I love it when my soul feels fulfilled. It's hard to do that. I know. What do you think does fulfill yourself? Like if you, like what do you actually think

is like a thing that really nourishes your innards? A huge thing that yeah, really does well for the innards is, and I say it all the time, but it's like kind of the simplest form. And in a way it's like kind of me when I've just woken up and it's like, yeah, I'm kind of half a slumber and half, I'm like half awake. It's like really like, I'm kind of half a slumber and half, I'm like half awake. It's like really like, I'm almost not me yet.

But I always say like when I wake up or like just being in my bed with my boyfriend and my dog in like a safe place that I love, in a city that I love, everything really feels like it's my own. Just feeling so safe and like, there couldn't be more love that- I've worn your dog. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

No, but that's like the best bit. It's like, everything about this is perfect. Like my little ratty dog can rip me to shreds. Please, it's all I've ever wanted is like, my own space with my own dog. It's actually technically my boyfriend's family dog that I've since taken over as my own. But it is your dog. You've got it on own dog. It's actually technically my boyfriend's family dog that I've since taken over. You stole it.

But it is your dog. You've got it on your skin. It's my son. You've marked. It's my baby. You've given yourself the dark mark. My baby boy. Yeah.

Oh Ozzy. It's all I've ever wanted is like a safe and loving home. Yeah. That fulfills myself. Definitely. Knowing that like, and I'll go to bed every night and be like can't wait to see you guys tomorrow. Yeah. It's just so. Yeah. Wholesome. I think that's nice for the space to be the bed as well. It's like the coziest thing. It's purely like just so,

it's just perfect. Yeah. That was dreamy. But loads of things fulfill myself. What about you? Go on. Oh. It's kind of, um, it's the second time, but it's like, you know, when you, this is really the shape of the podcast as well, just by nature and also the shape of most conversations, is you ask someone a question and then by consequence you have no choice but to answer for yourself. Totally.

And earlier we had the funny thing of you said, how did you sleep? Because you slept badly. I was like, I was like, how did you sleep when I slept badly? I only asked you because I wanted to tell you that I slept badly. Which I'm always up for worrying and I hate to hear that you didn't sleep well. I know. But yeah, go on, what fulfils you? Well, the only thing coming to my mind, I think I don't really get fulfilment like this.

I think I, I don't know, cinema. Yeah. Cinema, cinema, cinema. That to me is enriching. Insane. Like I genuinely think I must feel it on a different level to other people like and I don't mean to do that but I do believe that. Do you feel connected to me in that way? I think I am a big cinema lover. No you of course. But I really think that... It's taken to an extreme. I see some people in this sacred space, the church of the cinema. I see people there on their phone checking things.

I see people whispering. I see people... See people say I don't really wanna go to the cinema. It's boring. I have a friend that thinks it's boring, which I get, like, okay. But, and that's what leads me to believe it's like... Look, there's nothing, it's silence. It's what leads me to believe it's boring, which I get, like, okay. But, and that's what leads me to believe it's like. Look, there's nothing, it's silence.

It's what leads me to believe it's like, okay, so this is not a universally, it is a universally loved place, but like. Cinema, yeah, I don't know if you guys have heard of this, but there's a place called the Cinema, you'd love it. It's insane in there. Yeah, it is. It's insane, it's got childhood connections,

it's got sights to behold, it's got snacks, it's got darkness. Stories are plenty. It's got childhood connections. It's got sights to behold. It's got snacks. It's got darkness. Stories are plenty. It's got everything. It's perfect. It's literally perfect. I wanted to ask you, kind of freedom, flop era, fulfillment, the F word.

Yes. When you're talking about your flop era, obviously everything is nuanced and everything is famously, everything of our all at once. But I was thinking and I just wanted to take a sec to just put in there for you and I'm sure you can take over. Just the idea that even though it's like, okay,

generally if we had to label it, you would say, yeah, a bit of a flop era. Like wasn't ideal, there was some lows, there was some low lows. There was some challenges. And also that we've done insane things in that. We have, yeah. We've done insane things. And you have.

No, totally. I've been literally all over the place, which is why it kind of feels absurd. But that's why to me it's like, God, it's not simplistic. It's not if it looks amazing, it is. It's just not the case. And that's also what I was gonna say is

even beyond it looks amazing it is, it's just not the case. And that's also what I was gonna say is even beyond it looking amazing, I think even the concept of like a year and a half ago, you made a decision, leave London and move home, which was going to be a challenge. Yeah, and I knew it. And you knew it and it was a brave choice for you to take and you knew you had to do it and it felt right. And in so many ways

and I'm happy with that decision. Exactly. Yeah undercuts the whole concept of a flop era because Everything ever all at once but like it really could never be a flop. Yeah, because it was so necessary for you It was yeah a real it was an intentional decision actually. Yeah and a real like It's an intentional decision actually. Yeah and a real like, it's kind of, you are the, you're a rebellious girl and you love to push away from what's expected of you and like forge your own path. Definitely.

I believe that I'm really someone that, in fact I know, I'm really someone that is led by like my feelings rather rather than the logical decision. Okay, so I'd been at uni, then I lived in London in three different houses with my friends for three years. At the end of those three years, it doesn't really make that much sense to be like, no, I have to go home.

We'll talk about fulfilling for yourself. Back to my home that, I mean, since the age of, since I was a teenager, I've been done with that town. Like, God, I'm done with that town. I have no, I have very little love for that like specific town, you know? And I've always felt trapped in it, you know? But I was like, I need to go back.

And I'm so fucking happy with that decision. And I knew all the challenges that would come with it. And I knew everything and I still chose it. And of this even though it is a flop era I don't have any regrets. No I don't at all. I know that I know why I chose it and I knew this would happen. Yeah. And I knew the time to leave would come as it came but I also I know why I did it. Yeah I think as well there are sometimes like, I just think as well throughout life, it's like, look, if we're planning on sticking around,

which I am, look forward to the cinema with you in our kind of 90s, it's like, if we're doing it, if we're here for the long haul, yeah, exactly. Fast forward to that film. Literally, but if we're here for the long haul, if we're in this, life is about learning things, changing your mind, then learning it again and almost the relationship and identity you had around for example that town now is totally different after a year

and a half of being there again. Even though there are some values and like beliefs and perceptions you have of the place that have been confirmed by being there, you've come to understand it and understand yourself in it in a whole new way through the new experience. Life is constantly about almost like, I really as well feel as I get older, I'm really getting to know myself and know the things that I like more. Do you know what I mean? Like you start to settle into who you are.

And yeah, I just think it's really nice to be able to, yeah, it's like, okay, so what? Maybe yeah, you make a decision, not necessarily you, but Harry, one makes a decision. And six months later later they're like, oh yeah, I thought that would happen. Or like, oh yeah, I do feel the same way about that. Or like, oh yeah, no, I shouldn't have got back with them

or all of that stuff. That's kind of what life's about. It's fair enough to make mistakes as well, to be like, I didn't preempt that. That didn't go to plan. Or I didn't like this. That's life, that is actually what it's all about. I know somebody, I know someone moving to Australia.

Yeah. Well, I actually know loads of people moving to Australia. Everyone goes. Welcome to England. Yeah. Yeah, I know someone moving to Australia. And I, me and my boyfriend, whenever we talk about it, I'm like, it's the best thing they will ever do,

even if they're there two months and they hate it. Best thing you ever did was going there and learning that you hated it and then coming home. Well, because the alternative is you don't do that. And you, what do you do instead? I guess stay at the same job forever. Yeah.

Just keep going. Yeah, life is about trying and failing. And also that lovely thing of like. Wendy's Small Frosty is the ultimate summer refreshment. And not because it's cool and creamy and made with fresh Canadian dairy. It's also refreshingly cheap. Just 99 cents until July 14th. It's a treat for you and your wallet. If everything you ever wanted was behind 60 failures or 60 rejections or 60 fuck ups or 60 people

saying no to you. You'd go out and start seeking out the rejection and the failure so much more freely. Totally. And rewiring that in your brain is such a like little loophole. It is. Of like oh yeah rejection isn't the end of the journey it's actually the beginning. That's the route to where you want to go. But also it's the point, it's literally the point. Like I feel like all of these things. Yeah. You have to go through it.

You have to go through it. All of these things get framed as like things that, even that is like things that happen before you get to the destination. It's like, but what if that is the destination? No, that's the destination. That's your life. Yeah, that's actually the thing.

It's like, okay, so your end goal is kind of dying happy. All of these things are the, you know. Exactly. That's your okay so your end goal is kind of dying happy. All of these things are the thing. That is it. That is literally it. And I think we always try and move through them but it's like why don't you just settle in, enjoy it. Make the most of them. Even if you are and you're floppy or whatever, like a term I'm kind of using loosely and also. We're laughing at it like, come on. I think sometimes it, like claiming it is half of the thing.

Oh my god, it's huge. It's half of the thing to be like, this isn't very nice actually. Right now, this isn't very easy. This is kind of hard. Not my best. Yeah, this is hard right now. Yeah. And that takes half of the like heat out of it.

Totally. And it's like, oh okay, then I can just like be a bit nicer. I can just like live through this like slightly hard bit. Relax into it. It also allows you when you have the ownership over it of being like, oh shit, this isn't nice. Or like, oh shit, yeah, I'm not at my, I'm not on top form wing today.

It allows you to, for example, go to like your network of people, whoever you have in your life and lean on them and get help. Totally. Something funny comes from it. Also unexpected things have come up like in this year, oh my god, I've really, really, really reconnected with like old friends. Like one of my oldest friends, I didn't go to uni with her

and I didn't live in London with her, it'd be someone that I would see every time I went home. I see her every fucking day. I see her constantly, I think twice a day. We see each other all the fucking time and I love it. It's so nice, it's real child. It's childish, it's almost like, oh come and call on your house. It's so nice.

Oh like, hi, it's Poppy in. Yeah, not for Poppy Deacon. And then one of my oldest friends, I mean, God, these people I've known since I was one, even younger. I've like reconnected with her and oh my God, we went to Amsterdam together. Like I've really reconnected with the people that I love

so much, but I don't, haven't been living there. And God, I've really, that was an unforeseen symptom of the move to go home was like, oh my God, I really, that was an unforeseen symptom of the move to go home, was like, oh my God, I kind of wasn't doing it for these people, but I forgot that they're there. Was it making the most of the people that I love? Loved them so much, and just almost like, fallen back in love with that place, really.

I really have, I wrote actually on my newsletter, it was the first thing I ever wrote. Yeah, I remember. And there's a line that I really love, it's like when I walk around here I want to wear like a big red badge saying, just a big red badge saying visitor. It's like I am not one of you, I am a visitor to this place, don't get it twisted, I am not like you. And then since being there it's like that was definitely the attitude that I had throughout my whole teenage life.

I think it's your attitude generally. I think actually everywhere you go. I'm not like you. I'm better than you guys. I am not, just so you know. I'm not one of you. That was definitely my attitude growing up there for sure. And throughout being there,

I've definitely reframed my place within that town and not fearing it so much and not having to prove anything. It's just like, this is the place that I'm from. Exactly, because also it only speaks of how you are more comfortable in yourself. You don't have anything to prove. Well, you do, everyone has something to prove every day.

And I know that it's not me. I know that it's not all of me. It's within my DNA, but it's not me. Do you know what I mean? I know that it's not all of me. It's within my DNA, but it's not, I think the desperation to prove the distance from it was because I'd never been anywhere else. When I was a teenager, it's like, get me out of this fucking hellhole. And now it's like, God, I've lived so much away from it.

Coming back, it's like, God, I don't feel the need to be like, just so you know, I'm not one of you. It's like, of course you are and you aren't. It's just a different relationship and I think that was definitely one of the most healing things of it all. So with flop comes a little bit of, you know, perspective changing.

With flop comes pop. I love this combo. I kind of wasn't expecting. This vibe. To kind of, yeah. I'm not gonna lie to you guys We did sit down and I was like one last thing the topic We thought after all of this is like scrabbling around that'll be the book. What are we doing?

What are we talking about? And we're like we could do feminine rage this part too, but it's like no But somehow it's I've always got I'm not gonna lie, I've always got a topic ready to go. You have. I think I am pretty good at coming and being like, we're doing this. I feel the brain. Or do you want to just prod around and then you give us- Yeah, no, you're great with just having like, kind of three or four things just floating around.

Leading routes, yeah, always, always. Never for me. Never. We were having this conversation yesterday where you were like like I'm my best unrehearsed, totally fresh. Yeah, it will never be better the second time. Yeah, I'm always best the first time I say it. If I think okay I'm gonna talk a little bit about home. It will be shit, but if home just comes up, it will be good. Yeah, good for you It's weird, but I feel like you're quite good at like knowing the direction that you want to steer your combo in

and being able to hit on the key points. Yeah, because I think otherwise we don't have a podcast. I think you need a bit of, you know. Yeah, you do, but I still bring that, I think. Of course you do. But like, I think we need some sort of anchor, otherwise it's like, what's the title? No, you need a theme.

And what are they listening to? No, you can't, you know what I mean? I mean, I'm not an idiot. You can't just be like, let's just talk freely. No, you need a theme. And what are they listening to? No, you can't, you know what I mean? I'm not an idiot. You can't just be like, let's just talk freely. No, no, but like, of course you need a bit of looseness, but like, I think we are still loose, even when we know the topic is blah, blah, blah. We have to be, we have to be.

Otherwise there's nothing. Yeah. We've got niche, but I think you also don't give yourself enough credit for like, I think you think you know less than you know I think you think there's a rhythm that comes coming in with nothing. I'm just coming in with nothing. It's like your brains No, it's not nothing. It's not nothing but I'm coming in with yeah No, there's a certain amount that from doing this for so long. You always know the rhythm

Yeah, you always know you're talking about even if it was your first day tomorrow You yeah you come and and it gets sprung on you, where you're going, but you're always ready to go. Yeah. I like it to be sprung, I think. Of course, yeah. Is there anything you wanna give? Oh, I thought so many things when you were talking.

Like, there were just so many good little points. What was the topic again? A flop era. Flop era. Freedom fulfillment. I like it because I feel like we've given some really fresh things. We've reframed some things like rejection, home, friendship, loads has come up in a really nice way. But I just would love like a little bit more to do. You're not an idiot by the way. No, no. Neither are you.

I know. Yeah, you're not. No, I know, I know, I don't feel like one. Yeah, yeah, gosh. Oh, I don't know. Okay, so we've ended your flop era for now. For now, yeah. Yeah, and that's, I think, also just the crux

of this whole thing is flop era question mark Everything just is and isn't hard and amazing at the same time sort of thing Yeah, thinking about you feel like okay, you've definitely put something to bed Hmm, is there a plan going forward or like is there an idea of like this is what I'm learning from this The end yeah what it took to end that flop era, what are you carrying through, and almost like moving away from, moving on from, what are you holding on to, like what's the path?

I think I'm just going with the like fluidity of life sort of thing. It's just so classic. As you do. Couldn't have put it better. That's kind of what I'm doing. Yeah, just something like that. If I really think about it, I'm just kind of-

Something like the fluidity of life, really. Okay. That is kind of what I'm doing. I'm kind of going with the fluidity of life. I am not getting attached to narratives and just- I'm flowing anymore. Are you relinquishing on contract? I'm relinquishing.

Are you giving everything you once desired from others to yourself now? Yeah, I'm doing all of the above. Trust the timing of life. Yeah. Don't try to steer the river. Yeah, no, really what I'm doing is don't try and steer the river.

Let girl be dragged. That's crazy. Changes the way you look at things and things you look at change. How many more do you reckon we've got? Well, they start going into dumb sort of nobody's coming Harry. No it's Jay Shetty vibes. Those are all Jay Shetty vibes but then we'll go into sort of

Devil's Snare, Devil's Snare. Devil's Snare, nobody's coming Harry, assume the worst, kind of weird. They get maybe a bit weird when they start being avaulterous. Yeah very specific and niche. That's when they start being a bit worse. But no I have no big lessons. What about you? Do you have sort of a lesson of the moment?

Oh, God, it's hard to say, because at the moment I am giving head empty. Yeah. I think kind of just generally over the whole, for me, I think the whole crux of the conversation, the whole conversation is underpinned by the awareness of like, you can always guarantee times will be hard and then easier and then hard again.

And that is life on repeat. And I've seen myself through extremely shitty shitters and extremely thriving, thriving times. But it's always been me throughout. And I think kind of what you were saying about like having the ownership of when you're finding something hard or having the ownership over like, yeah, this isn't my best era.

This isn't my brightest hour. It's not my finest time. And going back to kind of where we started and where I started in that kind of unsafe environment or just finding every single day, almost like the idea of like, yeah, making it tomorrow isn't necessarily a given and I'm young and I'm vulnerable

and it will never be harder than that. And knowing that now I'm 27 and that's like, I'm a grown woman and I am on the other side of something. And the times, the flop here is always coming, but knowing, I keep saying grown woman and I am on the other side of something and the times, the flop eras are always coming but knowing, I keep saying resilience and stuff which is so boring but I think as I get older I learn yeah the times will always be shit. That's always on the horizon.

Assume the worst, it's on its way but knowing that regardless you'll be there and you'll be fine. And even if it's really hard, you can still do it. Yeah, totally. And sometimes I think this is even like from maybe even higher priestess times, us talking about- I didn't think I'd hear those words. Yeah, you've got to add that to the slew of quotes.

It's like a slur. Higher priestess. Higher priestess. Oh god. What did you say? Why did we do that? God. I remember us talking about, like I would say like sometimes the anxiety or the stress about a certain thing is bigger than the reality itself or like even simple things like for example you've got social anxiety at uni, you're scared about a presentation for example,

let's take a young Sefi here. And she's really, really scared, she's like, oh my god, what if this happens in the seminar, what if this happens in the seminar, what if this happens in my presentation, oh no. Yeah, and doesn't sound nice, does it? But then play it out, it's like, okay, but what if? Okay, like worst case scenario, maybe people laugh at you,

and then what, you go home and come and have a laugh with me in the living room Is that how bad can it be like even if it's and it can be bad. Don't get me wrong I don't want to undermine your situation like we can it it can be really bad life can be so rough Sometimes it can be really hard. I think it's actually it's guaranteed like it's totally it's kind of like the only thing You know what things that the only things that are guaranteed death and taxes It's like let's move tax on it's like death and like suffering. It's like totally maybe happiness Yeah, I think the whole full spectrum is actually guaranteed within the human existence I think playing that through and being like what am I scared of right now?

What are you scared of you're scared of right now? What are you scared of? You're scared of failing the exam, you're scared of your boss, you're scared of this thing happening, you're scared of your relationship, this happening, whatever, blah, blah, blah, all of these things that are bugging you and are kind of hovering over your shoulder,

devil's shoulder, and then all your worries and fears. Kind of Sims 2 character, it's like you're walking around with all of these wants and fears constantly like tallying over like a casino, burdened by the thought of the potential of these things happening. Okay, so let's play it through. What if they did happen?

You'd go over it. So that kind of settles it. It's a bit job done, like drop, assume the worst, get me out, nothing else to say. It's like, okay, the worst that happens and then you did it. Do you remember the thing, I said this few, many episodes ago now, probably like 10 or 20, who knows?

But I remember being like, I listened to a thing and the woman on it was saying, she's like a neuroscientist and she was saying that when you have all those worries and fears, you can just, a way to train the neuro pathway is to be like, and what's the best outcome of this situation? And because we're humans, we know that we've been raised

in this crazy environment, we're always looking for threats because of our evolution, blah, blah, blah. It's like we're always, always, always going to assume the worst, basically. We think, oh my God, what if my boyfriend breaks up with me and then what if I'm alone forever and then what if I like am destitute, like I lose my job and everything's a nightmare.

Like what if I'm a villain in a Charles Dickens novel? Exactly, it's a terrible situation. Does she set fire to herself in the fireplace? She's definitely on fire. She's called her a villain. She's definitely on fire at one point, bit of great expectations. Expectations lore for you. There's definitely a fire involved with her and a wedding dress.

And the cake and everything is all out I think. Getting dusty. I actually can't remember. Like a haunted mansion. It's definitely not a great look. Have you ever been in the queue for the Tower of Terror in Disneyland? I don't know. It's giving that vibe.

It's like everything's covered in cobwebs. Yeah. And this sad old woman who's probably 31. Is in a wedding dress. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Worst thing a woman could ever be over the age of 19. And unmarried. Ay, ay, ay.

Goodness me. And yeah, okay, so I played for everything in its worst case scenario. And what if it isn't? We never, ever, ever think about, and what's the best thing that could happen here? Oh my God, what if I win the lottery? And what if I do this? Like, yeah, OK, so it's probably as likely as the negative alternative, maybe not the lottery, but like, oh my God, and I have an amazing...

I didn't even enter and I still won. This is amazing. I got a golden ticket. It's like, what if the best thing happens? But it's probably somewhere in the middle, really, is where all this stuff is gonna play out. But we focus so much, so Joe Shutty right now, we focus so much on the negative man. And we never look into these baby blue eyes.

Yeah, and it's probably somewhere in the middle. Yeah, off the back of that, the thing about rewiring your pathways is very real. And I feel like for those of us who are convinced that we are the medical anomaly and that I'm doomed and I'm misapprehensioned and it's never, no, drinking water doesn't help me, for example. I don't need all these things

that is recommended for everyone else. That would help you guys, that doesn't help me, for example. I don't need all these things that is recommended for everyone else. That would help you guys, that doesn't help me. I remember a therapist, I've said this before on the pod, talking about the idea of rewiring the way your brain works as looking over at kind of like a patch of green by a road or something. And what are they called? Convenience paths or something something like the path.

Like sort of like, well I need to get from here to that shop so I'll just cut across the green. I'll cut across the field and over time, kind of five years later, it's like there's a patch of dirt. There's a beautiful dirt path laid out exactly where I need to go. But if for whatever reason we all decided to no longer walk that park or walk the long way around

or walk a different route or cut across a different way, we create a new path and the old path, slowly but surely five years later, gets grown in, it patches over, it's a nice grassy green once again. And the same thing happens similarly with your brain. Those pathways are kind of, we're wearing them in, we're growing muscles, we're changing and they can learn to divert over time so challenging the

negative bias sounds really it's the classic thing of like all these things we tell ourselves to do they do help over time and it's actually science it's totally science and you are not bigger than science. No, even you God. I'm looking at you God. Maybe even especially you God. I'm looking at you God in quote mark. And in terms of like creating those new pathways something else I've definitely said on the pod and something I've literally thought about since I was like 12 and I've said this to you as well. I remember saying it at uni Yeah, and I've said it a hundred times since because all I do. Yeah, yeah, yeah this girl won't shut up. You can't help it It's what we do best. It's what we do best

It's the idea that for example, I used to go to school and then half way through the day be like Oh, maybe I left my straighteners on and maybe the house is burnt down and maybe I've destroyed every thing and one I know and love Yeah, maybe I've ruined everything thing and one I know and love. Maybe I've ruined everything. Everything I know is in ashes right now. And my mom's gonna beef you. I am in big trouble. And it was my GHDs that did it.

Oh yikes, that's not good. So you, whatever, you're going about your day, you have this random sudden panic, you have a sudden stress. I used to then think to myself, okay, little old Erin Emerali, what if, I challenge you, I raise you, what if you wanted to leave your strainers on

or you wanted to burn the house down? What if you wanted to have your strainers, have something set on fire and blah, blah, blah, everything you've ever wanted is on the other side of this house fire, what if then? Well then suddenly I'd think, oh shit,

if the straightners were on it's not gonna be enough to set on fire or I probably didn't even leave them on in the first place. They turn off after a few 30 minutes anyway, don't they? Exactly 30 minutes, yeah well I didn't have GH so I wasn't, you know. Well me neither. The other half live, hey I know.

No you, you bought me these. Oh not you, but how quickly the perspective changes of like, oh, when it's something that I want to happen, suddenly I think it's really unrealistic. But when I'm really scared of it, it seems like it's definitely gonna happen. It just so easily highlights that negative bias. And the more you do it over time,

the more it's a really nice way of like, especially with certain anxieties or like, you're struggling with OCD or certain like kind of scary intrusive thoughts, flipping them and being like, okay, if I wanted X, Y and Z to happen, well now I can suddenly see that it's probably a little bit unrealistic. So yeah, maybe I've got my knickers in a twisted head.

It does change everything, doesn't it? Like, okay, so say I want it. Maybe I'm speaking out of turn, Erin Amarali, Salika. Didn't really do enough to make that happen. No, and you get home, surprise, surprise, straighteners are off. The straightener's fear is really- Real.

Real, I had that yesterday. I'd got to your house and I was like, I think I might have left them on, and luckily my straighteners are right there. So I know that I'm looking at them there so I know that bloody how it is there it's a specific fear isn't it the straighteners on it's like because you're always in a rush yes when you're using them you're fully committed to the look and it's second nature it's the kind of thing as well where people say

those straighteners off so I feel like it's the kind of thing that it's and you don't know those straighteners yeah I mean it's the kind of thing as well where people say those straighteners off So I feel like it's the kind of thing that it's and you don't know those straighteners Yeah, I mean, it's the kind of thing that you get like called out on totally have the awareness of like I don't want to leave these on. Yeah. Anyway guys your straighteners aren't on and you're fine. Oh god go and check Well, if you wanted them say it's like okay you've won the lottery if you get home and that house is burned down because your Straighteners are off. You've won the freaking lottery. Yeah, I'm in luck. You have I love that I really did when you said that I remember I couldn't really grasp it because I was like What is that? What is she saying? I was like, could you remind me of that thing? Yeah, I couldn't quite like remember It's so practical isn't it? Yeah, I do it often

If I'm like, oh god, this thing has definitely happened. Oh god. I'm definitely going to get there and they'll be like this or I'm definitely, this is definitely going to happen. Okay. So say you're trying to ensure that thing happens. It's like, oh, definitely not going to happen. No, it's like, well, I would have, I would have let a match. I would have, I would have got some coal.

You wouldn't have just maybe potentially left the straightener on your desk. Do you know what I mean? Come on guys. Yeah. Fools. Okay, is that an episode then? Totally. Okay, what are we on? 49 minutes.

Whoa, that's an episode and a half. About to be 50, yeah. Well, it's one episode. Episode and a half. It's exactly one. No, it's totally one. Exactly one episode. Okay, nice.

Cool, okay. Oh, hi, yay, yay. I feel like we've been on a bloody journey. Yeah. So when's Freya getting here? It's 1 now, so we've got ages. We could even do a second. Oh god. Okay, yeah. We don't have to.

Yeah, let's have a five minute break. Or we could move into filming sort of thing. Yeah, let's, whatever. Let's revise me out. Alright, cool. Thanks guys. Hope you enjoyed this one. I feel like you have. I don't need to put words anywhere else. I hope you have. Yeah. Maybe let us know if you have. And if you don't hear from us, assume the worst. Thank you.