Goes Without Saying - surviving dating in your 20s: vali-dating and it shows

Episode Date: February 22, 2024

podmothers sephy & wing enter the chat: spiralling on friendship failures, the 'cool girl' myth, hookup culture, long distance relationships, communication, and breakups. ✷shop ✷ www.sephyandwing.co.ukhear more ✷ www.instagram.com/sephyandwingwatch more ✷ www.tiktok.com/@sephyandwing Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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The animal kingdom is queer and we are a part. Find a field guide to gay animals on Spotify, Apple. Or wherever you get your podcasts. ACAST helps creators launch, grow, and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast.com Goes Without Saying. You're listening to Goes Without Saying with Sefi and Wing. I'm Wing. And I'm Sefi.

This is a really nice, like, sleepy, cozy, comfy episode, I think. Had a really nice time, actually. I really needed this one if I do say so myself. We speak about dating, it's a little bit like big sister advice, it's very, I would say soothing to the mind, you're not the only weirdo around here. Enjoy. enjoy oh god wow how are you we've been talking all day we've been together all day we just got the trains home to our separate homes and now we're recording i have to say i can't get enough of you me neither me neither what day it's been i still haven't had my fill no literally how have we we've also just been talking on this for about half an hour um having an absolute blast we still have things to say to each other

i could i could go on but i won't um i'm actually really excited for this episode we were in the studio earlier yeah so we've really kind of gone in we were doing you might have seen actually on our instagram and our tiktok we've been doing the the seffy to swifty journey has begun oh with full force and with full force full steam ahead i'm really i'm putting my back into it it's so fun yeah it is actually really fun so that's what we're doing because you're just showing me stuff like all i yeah i said at the we came up the studio i was like so that was our day was the work was it we listened to three taylor's a dream the best i had honestly the best day she has yeah the best day oh okay so this will be a nice one i think we've never really done something like this before no we haven't i'm also just feeling so cozy i'm literally tucked up in bed with a heated blanket

it's like stunning i just i'm so happy to be recording this like yeah i've done this before it's a really nice experience i think it's gonna bring a coziness i love laying down and recording as you know in a duvet i mean heated it's pushing our luck to be honest yeah it is actually we do like to push our luck oh as always yeah so big sister advice so we always get called the older sisters uh ugly sister as well we always get called ugly pieces of shit old old old is what we get yeah we always get called the kind of older sisters thank you guys for being our older sisters blah blah which we do joke about but i welcome it with open arms oh totally biggest honor of my life also it's funny of us to be to give advice constantly

advice advice advice and then be like why is everyone saying we're like older sisters it's like well we did kind of make it like that we did yeah we branded ourselves like that i guess we did but are we giving advice or are we just saying i think there's an advice element in it like we're not explicitly saying this is what you should do this is what we would do but i think through talking about our experiences i think we hopefully empower people and like give kind of advicey i'd like to give a warm fuzzy feeling exactly it's off the back specifically why we're actually sat down specifically to do this episode is because someone messaged us and said i'm an only child and i would love a big sister episode like you just give big sister vibes or blah so that is harry i now speak directly to you yeah um and i don't have an older sister far from so me neither no you don't but you are the i'm the

old i am the older sister of three siblings and you really are i really rule the roost i must say you do you're a roost ruler i am a roost ruler um that is up for dispute some siblings might dispute that but i think there are some other roost rulers but yeah shall we just jump in wherever yeah this basically this goes out to the only children out there yeah and just anyone who needs just anything to something to listen to basically yeah it just goes out to whoever goes out to the lovers out there yeah and just anyone who needs just anything to something to listen to basically yeah it just goes out to whoever goes out to all the lovers out there whoever clicked on this yeah this goes out to you um right i feel absolutely brain dead right we well we can't go into it no no no we can't but i wish we could i wish we could guys something happened but i'll tell you about it at a later date but nothing really happened but it's all about speak for yourself speak for yourself

i've been through something yeah okay we will speak about it we will speak about it but we want to get paid before we'll get paid to speak about it so we'll get back to you we basically something happened but we want them to pay us oh god which they probably won't but then if they haven't paid us within what two months we'll talk about it yeah yeah let's put a time limit on it and not even paid us but like we want to work with them yeah in some capacity anyway in any way and if they don't want to work with us then we'll talk about them anyway promote them yeah yeah just out of the kindness of our hearts iconic um it all makes the first message we got yeah yeah i would liked instantly someone said i always worry about coming off as too keen is there such thing in a romantic endeavor not necessarily oh i don't know um i guess in all ways. But I guess maybe they probably did mean romantic.

No, but I like it in general anyway. Yeah. I think there is such thing as too keen. There is such thing as too keen. But if there's anything you should be in this life, it's too fucking keen. Like, if you're keen, own it. Be keen. Exactly.

I think I'd rather be keen and be seen as keen than be keen and pretend for whatever reason i'm not fucking keen it's like no i'm just gonna fucking own it i think everything is cooler in life when you own it yeah by miles yeah like it's just cool to own it and be like i think you're so fucking cool like let's do something or like but you do oh my god like no you have to own it but you have to be willing to accept that someone might think that is too keen for them but i think that's part of owning it yeah because it's like if i know how i feel i'm comfortable putting it out there because that's all i need to do and then if i don't get exactly what i want big deal but i know i owned the need to do and then if i don't get exactly what i want

big deal but i know i owned the moment yeah do you know what i mean yeah totally god we're in a crazy mood today yeah i just remembered when you were talking about that the beautiful man that we saw today do you want to talk about that we won't say where we saw him okay it could be anywhere but we did say where we but we have said where we've been today but two and two together so if you work there don't listen there are multiple men there there are so many multiple men there but this man helped us today and he's sitting in the seat he said one sentence to us he said is everything okay in there but he just he stood up he stood up and we rose from his seat and he was so tall and suddenly he was a god in the room and we went back into our little

studio and we looked at each other and we were like a man that was a man a capital m a man a man wow that was an experience that really was just the way he rose from his seat he rose out of nowhere and i said i think we slipped into a bit of a damsel role yeah because we need for a charger and no one else had said a peep to us and then all of a sudden this man comes along and he's like is everything okay in there and we literally nearly like yeah by the way do you want to come into the studio it's because you're ovulating and i'm just feeding off the energy no genuinely like it's been a bit crazy we're a bit feral at the moment but anyway we really we had a feral we in the conversation so far that we just had off the pod thank god

thank god like you were spared we've we're definitely coming off feral feral which we don't contain myself we never really get this feral but we are today i yeah no this is this is to another it's really horrible actually we can't know i'm love i don't feel very good and i feel sick i feel overstated yeah um what about you do you think you've ever come off too keen in life or do you think oh go on then but i wish i played it different like i actually we were talking about this the other day oh god okay so i showed up at wings house yesterday and i was i'd messaged her the night before like i've just found an absolute gold mine oh my god yeah and

i don't know what led me to do it but i was the night before i was like oh my god i wonder what like weird old chats are on my phone like weird sort of like you know god knows what's in the depths of this phone so i scrolled right down to the bottom and i found this chat basically the transcript um transcript of this conversation the i message literally my text message thread yeah of um script it was the it was honestly biblical it is a transcript it was yeah it's the scripture yeah it is um i lived by this at uni so it was a guy that i was dating and each message god they meant so much and jesus christ up to the message where he sent me the inevitable the message i don't think this is working this is gonna go on yeah yeah yeah oh god and i when i saw it god it

um hit me hard again i was just like jesus it took me right back um four years later four years ago um but i text wing being like i've got the most insane gold mine of shit to show you because wing was very much the co-author of all of those texts i really was yeah it was so fun to look back on my previous work it was a joint project these messages it really was he was yeah and i think if i'm honest with myself yeah i was keen in that situation i was keen for something to happen with him we've been dating for like six months i mean no progression god boys sort your lives out like what's going on that was the birth of the scrap if anyone remembers us saying you think you're having sex with john snow but it's actually robin aaron if anyone knows that reference

brutal to him no it is brutal but he but he does i'm if you're listening to this right now which god knows why you would be move on on. It's been four years. Yeah, honestly, move on, you loser. I'm looking at our transcripts. What are you doing? Looking at your old text messages. Yeah, Jesus God. But this guy does look extremely like Robin Arrow.

No, he looks literally like that guy. Which is not an insult. But it was a shock when I... But it's funny to think you're with the main character. You're with the king of ice and fire or whatever. Yeah, I thought I was, but it really wasn't. Robin Arryn. Yeah, yeah.

It's not good. But I think if I'm being completely honest, I was keen. But reading through the transcript, I was playing it cool, cool, cool, cool as anything. You really were. Cool as ice. Nonchalant. And actually, I think my keenness came through but it read as insecurity because i think if you're playing underplaying it agreed it you can tell because i'm going you free

to do free this week uh-huh it's you know you're saying you're keen but without actually saying it and i actually think it's way better just to be explicit and say just cut yourself cut the crap i also think it's like really attractive for someone to be like i really fancy you yeah totally i'm thinking about you let's go which is i think why i was shocked to read it back because i think i remembered my i almost was projecting how i would act now on my memory of how i would act in everything almost like because i i forgot how insecure i felt at that time that i couldn't say how i felt yeah and yeah it was shocking to read so i think it's like yeah there is such thing as too keen in that be prepared for someone to say oh well i just don't feel like that like that's actually

just too much for me yeah i also think you owe it to yourself to be as keen as you are to be true why are you hiding it it's coming through anyway just exactly exactly agreed and whether they think you're too keen or not is irrelevant it's like but you just feel how you feel exactly and you should you deserve to get what you want in life i think yeah but also it's funny to think about for example those texts that you're talking about and like how you felt insecure at that time in that situation because now you would act so different obviously but part of that that you would act so different is because you've experienced that now well you've experienced that kind of relationship and like you've you've learned from that and also that was one of the times where i was like okay that is what i will never accept

sort of thing and even at the time i actually was proud of myself to read back the messages and see myself rejecting a terrible offer that you really did of a casual thing and me saying no although it's like yeah oh go on but we did kind of look back and realize that he did say in that text i do like you yeah but it was um it yeah but it was in the midst of a bit but i just want it but i'm just going i just can't really commit right now just the classic shit yeah so i'm glad i'm so glad that yeah in my insecure like trying to hide my keenness i still had the confidence to be like i reject your offer yeah dragons yeah i reject your offer yeah but i also wish that i'd had the confidence to be keen be outright

openly because also it's like if i'm entering into a relationship with someone i expect them to be keen well it's weird to kind of be seeing someone for six months under this like false illusion of like we don't like each other yeah i don't even think about very odd it's very strange like then why am i texting you as much as possible why do i want to see you every week like yeah the kind of it's the classic like the why am i texting you as much as possible why do i want to see you every week like yeah the kind of it's the classic like the nonchalant this cool girl thing that women made to feel especially when they're young it's it's kind of sold as like the the thing that you have to be but it's not the only way yeah no just i think it's not just be also i saw something the other day that was like

there is nothing like there's no better flirting than a girl to someone she has no interest in yeah and it's like when you release yourself with that pressure of like i'm not even interested in you suddenly i'm having the time of my life pulling all the strings and being so hilarious and being so flirty. Totally doing what I want. Owning the space. And it's because I'm not, to be honest, desperate to have your validation

because I know I don't need it because I'm not really interested in you. Leading someone on and flirting with them is another story. But there's so much fun to be had in allowing yourself to like entertain a flirtation with someone when you release yourself from the pressure of like needing them to validate you validating some way so exactly acas powers the world's best podcasts. Here's a show that we recommend.

Nature. I've got a gay rooster named Francois. Is so gay. These rams are gay. I'm studying gay animals. Does that mean I'm gay? So why don't more people know this? I'm Owen Ever.

I'm Lane Kaplan-Levinson. And this is a field guide to gay animals. A podcast about queerness in the natural world. The animal kingdom is queer and we are a part. Find a field guide to gay animals on Spotify, Apple, or wherever you get your podcasts. ACAST helps creators launch, grow, and monetize their podcasts everywhere a cast.com i do think some of the most fun i've had dating is with people that i'm not particularly interested in totally like in a romantic way then you're just free to be yourself and it liberates what it is yeah it really liberates your experience of it is more aligned like i feel like oh i don't know yeah i just think be how you want to be if you feel keen be keen if you don't feel keen don't be keen i

think that's the cheat code of like if you know that when you're not interested you act all loosey-goosey and you just have fun whatever try and catch that mood and don't try and skip stages when you're in stage one you're dating you'll be on a couple dates whether be in that stage you don't be thinking am i gonna marry this person could i see them as my boyfriend be in stage one be dating when you're in the kind of yeah sleeping together stage whatever just be enjoying be dating when you're in the kind of yeah sleeping together stage whatever just be enjoying that like if you're at the cinema together enjoy being at the cinema don't be thinking well is he going to text me tomorrow but then i probably oh god i've got but then what about thinking but then maybe i like blah blah blah it's like just enjoy actually what is happening i think we spend so long in the future with things like that the whole um beginning stages of dating it's just you

panicking it should be you having fun yeah why do we pretend that it's like almost we view it as in like we're married to this person looking back so true because you're looking weird you're kind of viewing it from the potential from the end goal from the story we think we're in how i met your mother days of our lives it's so strange we want this story it's like but just chill i also think a part of that is this is also kind of the thing of like accepting that for example you're in your 20s or however old you are it's like owning the narrative of like i'm not supposed to have it figured out or like i'm feeling insecure i'm feeling lost and there is a romantic element to that like i'm living a chaotic life right now beautiful like you'll still be a player i'm carrie bradshaw running around yeah i'm picturing all over the place like who knows what i'll do next maybe i'll throw my head in the oven like i'm a

crazy girl like who knows what's coming up for me and it's like yes that there are hard moments of that but when you liberate yourself from the pressure you can like enjoy the chaos and enjoy the opportunity that it brings to be uncertain and lost and insecure and anxious and all of those things it's you're happy free confused and lonely at the same time in the best way exactly it's iconic that's exactly it's the scripture just have fun just have fun we love you i love being a big sister this is fun me too this one is fun guys yeah do i like him or am i just bored ouch i mean what's the what's the issue regardless true but then you don't want to get into a relationship with someone that you're dating because you're bored yeah but then worst case scenario is you accidentally got into a

relationship with someone because you were bored and then you break up when you're having more fun yeah and then you have some fun and then the fun stops and you think i'm so sorry this isn't working i was i was actually just bored oops so sorry i just listened to a podcast where they reminded me that i was just bored it's like why didn't you play sims like why do you have to get me involved why'd you have to get me involved why don't you just take up crochet or something i think there are better things to do if you're bored like i don't know whether having sex with someone and getting in a relationship with someone or putting yourself in quite vulnerable positions is maybe the best thing to do if you're bored and i would maybe say are you

bored or are you insecure literally took the words out of my mouth it's like are you bored though because it's like yeah you can be bored and just kind of like swiping away on a dating app yeah scrolling through but i don't there's also an element of that that's like it's mindless sometimes so it's out of habit so it's like yeah it's soothing boredom but it is also soothing that part of your brain that's like i wouldn't mind feeling like someone wants to fuck me right now fancies me yeah totally and also like i think um don't be hard on yourself for just feeling however you feel yeah there are lots of cures for boredom that don't involve um getting ready going on a date yeah we're we're

retired can you tell getting ready leaving the house leaving the house but like that don't involve someone's penis so yeah there are there are a lot of other ways and that isn't maybe the most like rational way to deal with your boredom but then i also think how fun they are i guess you're carrie bradshaw you're sylvia you don't know what you'll do next why don't you go have some fun yeah yeah i hope that helps yeah i hope you're having fun i think that's the main thing yeah oh okay this is that this is one about um something that i okay i've had recent experience with but my experience don't let it taint you even though it was iconic but also don't let it take you they've said long distance question mark a huge question mark to me wait what they've said long distance question mark, a huge question mark to me. Wait, what?

They've said long distance as a question mark. Long distance, a huge question mark to me. Ah, okay, okay, okay, okay, okay. But my double use of question mark was confusing. I mean, first of all, how long is long? Yeah. And how far is the distance? Exactly. How long is long distance?

If it's like Cornwall to London, you can get over it, I reckon. Oh, God, that's not long distance. it's like cornwall to london you can get over it i reckon oh god that's not long distance try america yeah try australia yeah literally though you and peter malark are long distance the distance of different universes oh different yeah honestly different districts yeah let's not get into the josh hutchinson shit right now jesus okay so what is long distance to you then what would your thoughts be any main lessons any main takeaways from your experience my main lesson is i don't think there should be an issue if the communication is good that sounds and if you're on a similar page also i think what helped me i don't think i would have been able to do it um just if you had never um yeah if i'd never met him jesus but if i also

had um i had a date that so it was quite a weird situation that like we'd known each other for like a month and then it was sort of long distance dating but we had this date that was like a few months away four months away you knew that basically in a few months time he would be visiting yeah and then we absolutely crazily scheduled a holiday before me like absolutely so weird then we went away for a week together which actually want to think back is absolutely unhinged behavior from me to be like i have i have only met this person for a month haven't seen him in months and now we're going on holiday together like what the hell i think the fact that almost because you were traveling to see each other yeah it felt more like oh we can just meet up wherever

in the world if it was like a different he wasn't coming to my house yeah yeah totally but my advice is i think have a date that you almost a point that's like the long distance is going to end or like at least there'll be a break in the long distance because i think yeah do change a bit and yeah it would be good to kind of check in do we want to do another i think four months of this do we want to i think you need to have something to look forward to look forward to yeah i think as well i've never well yeah i've never done like a long i've never done like a cross um definitely never done cross country no cross country runner oh wait no that's cross continental cross continental international girl but i do think when i was at uni and my boyfriend was at home

that was yeah that was kind of long distance yeah it kind of is long distance yes ish and i really liked having like knowing that it would be like okay in three weeks four weeks time yeah six weeks time whatever and i would encourage keeping the fun element to it like i think use the long distance to your advantage like when you visit make it fun yep do fun things like do you know what i mean don't take it as a curse you did quite a good thing i remember um where you would watch game of thrones together because it was the final season of game of thrones were coming out coming out at the time and i remember walking into your room me and another housemate like being like trying to annoy you and you were like fuck off like i was actually like i'm so sorry you need to get the fuck because it's like

like the final fucking season like go away it's crazy that you were doing that to me really like um irresponsible disrespectful yeah disrespectful horrific behavior for me i'm so sorry it's all right i didn't know how serious it was as a series you you really didn't you really didn't but to honor tv yeah really crazy behavior for me i sat at my character actually i remember that so do i yes yeah honestly i remember thinking like this is out of character but i'm like really annoying her during the intro it's like pretty rude but i couldn't miss no no i apologize for taking that those i think watch things together i think sometimes as well this is probably a good if you're like in an established long distance relationship like maybe if you're kind of dating someone and it's still you're still kind of getting to know or whatever it's a bit different if you're in an established relationship and you're long

distance sometimes it can feel like a bit of effort to go into the mundane aspects of your day or do the catching up but i think that's the important part because then when you stop kind of filling each other in on what's going on at work or what's going on with your friends or what's going on in your life you're out of the loop and to be out of the loop with someone you're in a relationship with is really horrible it's it's not that's really like an isolating just not nice thing and i think sometimes it can be like oh they don't care about like what i've done today but i think it's important to like really on it honor it yeah and i think even like not even just in long time long distance relationships but i think even just in friendships like some of my favorite things like i love saying to you like what have you eaten today

seffy or like what have you like just tell me random shit what are you watching it's a big one what are you watching just where are you at mentally like just tell me how did you sleep is a big one that i'll send to you details yeah just the little things that it's like it's like oh you know i don't want to burden them with this information or like oh it's not that interesting or whatever but i think it's important to like give it the time because naturally if you were together those things would naturally come up and because they're not going to i think you should make an effort to accommodate those conversations definitely do the admin of like keeping each other in the loop and i think that's for like long distance friendships and stuff like that too we were kind of in a long distance friendship for ages we spoke

about this yesterday we're talking about this together not on the podcast um and we were saying there was a point you guys were i think listening you were here you were here too for the whole of covid really pandemic we didn't see each other for about a year which very much we were allowed to like the restrictions had been lifted there were points that we could there were so many points but we said we wouldn't see each other until a sunny day which was quite weird until a sunny day with a full-on cake yeah we and a picnic we had like this amazing cake but baked by my housemate who incredible baker baked this huge tall um like triple layer thing it was there's a video of it on our instagram you can probably find it somewhere go down yeah but amazing day we like would not that was each other until the time was right but it would

been a year imagine not seeing each other for a year that's mental when i think about it so strange that's long distance that's a really long time but we'd speak on the phone for about eight hours a day really weird i mean there was nothing else to do there was nothing else to do and we had so much to think and talk about we did our animal crossing islands tiger we had so much going on yeah yeah so much talk about need we say more i hope everyone's feeling good and like they're all right in life you're supported yeah how are we settling into 2024 i hope you're not being hard on yourselves for like letting things go this month or whatever yeah just live i mean just live just living just live that's beautiful just live doesn't need to

be neat doesn't need to be boxed no it's gonna be a mess definitely doesn't it's gonna be a fucking mess i can tell you that for sure as a big sister as your big sisters we can tell you it will be directly to you that's the point also as february comes to a close so does the limited edition release of our merch that we have beautiful cute things says you're my crux we love you to the pits and back um congrats on me you can also buy very stunning so you and your friend can get them together matching you can choose sizes as well which is quite important you don't have to get them the same size or anything um yeah just an iconic thing you can buy them with your friends you have matching yeah really cute that'd be a really good present actually to give someone be like i've got one and

now and you've got one now sort of thing it's like i've got us matching yeah it's really cute you also also if you buy them as a duo i will say you get them cheaper it works out cheaper so you may as well anyway perfect capitalism over monopoly man over god what a good day i like this yeah i liked it as well i kind of needed something like this to get our minds off what we're thinking about which will become clear soon i'm sure when we finally work with this brand we're gonna be like this is the one we're talking about i hope so yeah all right cool well love you guys much. If you don't hear from us, assume the worst.

We'll be right back.