Goes Without Saying - surviving small-minds & 'mirrorballing': podmas #8

Episode Date: December 8, 2023

join the conversation every monday & thursday.shop our merch: sephyandwing.co.ukspeak your mind on the @sephyandwing instagram. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Wendy's Small Frosty is the ultimate summer refreshment. And not because it's cool and creamy and made with fresh Canadian dairy. It's also refreshingly cheap. Just 99 cents until July 14th. It's a treat for you and your wallet. ACAST powers the world's best podcasts. Here's a show that we recommend. Nature. I've got a gay rooster named Francois. Here's a show that we recommend. And this is a field guide to gay animals. A podcast about queerness in the natural world.

The animal kingdom is queer and we are a part. Find a field guide to gay animals on Spotify, Apple. Or wherever you get your podcasts. ACAST helps creators launch, grow, and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast.com Yeah, ho ho ho, what's behind the door for us? I think it's a little picture of a candle. Oh god, I thought we were giving the context of the episode. Yeah, we are.

But I just suddenly thought it's a little picture of a candle. Okay, nice, i like that um but in actual real terms it is an episode about how to what almost like you know when you're surrounded by cunts every day and it's just like how do i escape you guys yeah you know that feeling i know it well yeah um maybe like you're working a job you're not the biggest fan of with a load of people you're not the biggest fan of that's what i'm picturing i also think at christmas time it kind of is the time that you go back and you see a lot of your family that you maybe disagree with and have a lot of beliefs that you don't really agree with or have a way of living that

you think is bleak as fuck and you just think think, no, I'm not like you guys. Yeah. At least you're thinking I'm not like you guys. Yeah. At most you're thinking, Jesus Christ, idiots. Yeah. Yeah. Something along those lines.

Yeah. Along those lines. Is there a time that that takes you to or is there anything in mind? Anyone you want to out? I think there have been many many many times in my life where i've been in environments where i've just thought like oh i think the vibe of this place is bringing me into a place i don't like down yeah pretty much down yeah um or like i don't think to be honest i kind of you know the thing of like they're not on my level yeah i don't

necessarily like that because it is horrible insinuates you're higher up yeah it's like i'm on a level above but we've been different leagues though there have definitely been points in my life where i've thought like yeah you're just not on my level like yeah it's horrible but there have been places where i've thought i don't think like that or like i think i've thought that through to a point where i disagree with you and i think you're just kind of regurgitating oh a load of shit that's the worst um that's not very nice and i think yeah you're not on my level no um and i especially think in some of the workplaces i've been in um one that i think is really dangerous um is in a lot of office spaces i think the way that food is discussed is very horrific

and dieting being like a normal thing and that's where i think yeah you're not my level but i also think yeah you've just internalized a load of shit and who can blame you so have i but i'm trying to get away from it and i think i am away from it in so many ways so whenever I get reminded of people for example here's one that I'm hearing a lot at the moment I'm making a lot of people's coffees at the community cafe that I work in and often people order cappuccinos and I say would you like chocolate sprinkles on there and they say no no I won't be naughty or something something along those lines. Santa's watching. Oh, I'm feeling a bit naughty today. Or like, some people say, I'll save myself the calories.

Horrible, dumb things like this. Okay. I can't be bothered in these environments to say, to even begin. Have you had a little thought about body neutrality? To challenge that. Also, let alone the sprinkles on a hot, the sprinkles on a cappuccino. I mean, that's the least of your worries in this life.

Come on. it's genuinely not gonna do anything yes and if that's even if you're buying into the idea of calories the concept is flawed but even like the even if you're buying into the concept of calories is really dumb as well but i mean i mean i hear that often and i think yeah when i've worked in office before like the idea of lunch and stuff and like third or naughty sort of that sort of vibe I think that's been at a time where I've thought I can't let myself start thinking like these people or I'm doomed really to put it lightly yeah I don't like the look of it I think as well like what I find really suffocating about this whole thing that we're talking about is the idea of it i think as well like what i find really suffocating about this whole thing

that we're talking about is the idea that is when it's almost like this hive mind like it becomes this really like homogenous way of existing that one person starts saying something or a few people share a belief and then before you know it the whole room is talking like that yeah and it's hard i am always noticing the ways that i am like falling into like assimilation with other people and i'm very aware of the ways that i'm really susceptible of like picking up other people's mannerisms or like performing what i think somebody else wants of me or like mirroring their traits back at them whether it's intentional or not and it's mostly not um unless like i'm in a situation where i want to get myself in and out and i'm just like you know trying to keep everyone calm and happy

then yes i will do whatever it takes to manipulate the situation to my liking thank you very much um but i feel like i'm really aware of the ways that other people impact me and i think i know we speak about it all the time and i think socially it's something we're quite naive to and we like to really think that we're like super autonomous and like free thinkers and free spirits and we're like no one controls me but genuinely when you spend every fucking day with people with certain views oh god it goes in somewhere and it hurts and i think i truly believe that your environment becomes who you are and like your relationships really become who you are like i think who you are where you're at who you're spending time with they're all so linked like

we're so informed by our environment and our peers and i think when you can um operate with some degree of choice over who you're spending time with or how much you're letting other people inform who you are it's so important yeah i think identity is actually quite a flimsy thing i think we like to think of it as a strong I'm which is why we kind of have all those things where it's like do you remember we used to say when people say I'm a morning person I'm a this person it's it can be obviously nice to kind of put yourself in a box and kind of or just like label your labels are helpful in certain ways um but also it's massively limiting and why I don't necessarily believe in certain things people can say i'm a this kind of

person i'm a this kind of person it's like actually we don't know shit we actually really just don't know anything about ourselves or like what are the chances by the age of um 20 i don't know how old i'm 26 that i really have a formed identity like yeah i have a good sense of my morals and i've got a good sense of like certain things i do in certain situations but actually i've only been here for 26 years it's no time at all it's not a very long time to be making little um wild statements about yeah i'm a this person proclamations so i think it's interesting to be quite curious about your identity and be like okay so when i'm in this environment how do i feel when i'm in this environment what do i do because sometimes it's

just not exactly what you'd think you would do i agree i was also thinking that kind of makes me think of a conversation that we were having the other day kind of it makes me i think it's also interesting to be curious about the kind of identity that you declare publicly versus the kind of things that you enjoy privately we were having an interesting conversation the other day about um the kind of episodes that we have some titles will be like really clickable and they feel very personal and it feels like we made that just for you and it hits very deep in some sort of intimate deep in your soul it's kind of embarrassing i don't think i really said it at the time but i think this is such an interesting point from you thank you very perceptive oh thank

you so much freya liked it too i managed yeah she did it went down well um but i think it's true so there are some there are some episodes or some titles of episodes where you see them and you think oh my god that was made just for me. That feels very personal. That feels like something I need to hear. Sefi and Wing have fucking nailed it once again. How have they done it? Constantly breaking ground. They're unique. They've never been done before, etc, etc. They've never been done before. Then there are other episodes that we have done. And obviously this goes across like any content and anything you

can enjoy in your life not just our podcast but specifically for us you have those episodes that hit just for you and they're private and it's intimate and it's personal and it almost feels um like a secret and then you have the episodes where you want to proudly share on your story that this is the kind of episode that i listen to this is the kind of podcast that i'm listening to i'm intelligent i was talking about misogyny this is what i know i am political i am progressive i am um i'm on the right side of this i'm on the right side and i'm i'm a thinker and i'm more of a thinker than you are thank you very much sharing just your coffee and that is implicit in that a hundred percent exactly and there are some episodes that will be really shared and we can see that the stats that they were the most shared episode and then you can see the episode

that was the most listened and you clicked on that because you thought it was just for you and it was private and i think you can even see the moment that people dropped dropped off which is nice bye sorry we got boring bye see you later um but i think that's especially interesting to think about in our own lives the things that we especially interesting to think about in our own lives the things that we're proud to share about who we are and the things that when they're called into question in public we kind of simmer down and let it go and don't hold on so tight to that belief or that um hobby or that interest we just kind of keep that under the surface could be because it feels sacred and it's just for us or it could be because there's some layers of shame around it i just think it's interesting to think

about like how we operate in different spaces with who and what does that mean for like who we are in our core being that's so interesting i literally love that thank you me too are there any things that you share public um that you kind of enjoy privately that you would feel conflicted to share publicly? Probably. Not even that you have to say them, but just almost like it would be interesting to know where those gaps are. Wendy's Small Frosty is the ultimate summer refreshment. And not because it's cool and creamy and made with fresh Canadian dairy. It's also refreshingly cheap.

Just 99 cents until July 14th. It's a treat for you and your wallet. ACAST powers the world's best podcasts. Here's a show that we recommend. Nature. I've got a gay rooster named Francois. Here's a show that we recommend. And this is a field guide to gay animals. A podcast about queerness in the natural world. The animal kingdom is queer and we are a part. Find a field guide to gay animals on Spotify, Apple. Or wherever you get your podcasts.

ACAST helps creators launch, grow, and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast.com I think something for me is like, there's an energy level that is constantly fluctuating, and I'm sure lots of people can agree or disagree, or can relate to that. There will be moments where something is called into question nothing on a crazy level but just kind of like minor things like oh i didn't like that film and i know deep down that i did enjoy it yeah and rather than entertain the conversation i will just let that hang in the air and move on i will just

keep my mouth shut. Not worth the argument. Not worth the conversation. I think as well, sometimes it can depend on how much I respect the other person or how much I have a level of curiosity over their opinions. And how much I think we can like engage in like an interesting conversation as two people. Rather than how much do I feel like I'm just getting into a debate where i'm just gonna have to defend myself and i'm going to someone coming from a bad faith sort of argument like i just can't be bothered to entertain that and i think yeah i also think having a podcast is the biggest luxury in the world and it's also like it gets you very used to talking your shit all the time and i think i get a bit worn out by myself and um i kind of realize how vapid my opinions and

beliefs and interests are as a person changing they are exactly like we're very dynamic as people and i think if you don't have a podcast or i think if i didn't have a podcast i think i wouldn't have i think i would have been um uh miss i would have been underestimating how dynamic i am as a person and like last week i would have said things that i really don't believe in anymore and i think i when i used to hear people say things like that i would be like what get a grip like you're the same fucking person really or like stand by your beliefs blah blah i think there's no other way through doing this like it's so confronting of just like oh no you do you talk so much shit and you have to move on very quickly

from the things that you said so i feel like i've learned in a lot of different ways to almost hold on to things quite lightly um and be quite fluid and like moving through things but i also think that probably comes from like i had a lot of change in my early life like it required a lot of um like it required me to be really adaptive yeah adaptive adaptable as a person and in a lot of ways it meant that i was learning like the things of myself that i had to sacrifice in order to keep myself safe which is really sad but there's a lot about it that i think like i'm i'm a very um i'm very accommodating i'm very um receptive to other people's ideas and like i have a level of curiosity towards other people's beliefs and stuff which i think allows me to understand people without judging them like i

think i'm very um open to other people's perspectives and stuff that said sometimes i just don't have the fucking energy and i don't care and it's knackering and it's fucking boring also you've kind of got a bit of a sense already of what the opinions might be or the lens through which their opinions are filtered might be sometimes it's not the most appealing to get into that if you're operating from different levels you're just below you're just yeah it's like some people they're just you're looking down on them there's nothing you can do about it i know you don't want to but they're down there on your feet like yeah yeah what about you um oh i think my brother's coming upstairs now to tell me it's tell you time to go curry time chico time one

problem thank you so much thanks yeah what about you are there things you, almost like the way we're changed by other people, like is there anything that you like let go around others or blah, blah, blah? Well, there was one thing that shocked me recently that surprised me about myself or just like the ways that subconsciously, like not even on an opinion level, but on like a biological level

that you're kind of moulding to other people constantly. Oh God on i thought this was really interesting it involves you so it was on the podcast but it just surprised me about myself that like i'm subconsciously doing things that i didn't even i wasn't even aware of that to like i don't know i don't know what it is some kind of biological urge to kind of be on the same level as someone or be i don't know so basically what happened is you oh no your contacts were falling out or something and you were squinting and you were like to me you don't have to squint do you remember this you were like you why are you why the fuck is this in your mind god that was ages ago and but i've been thinking about it because you were like why are your eyes

closed and it was funny because yeah i was looking at you intensely through a laptop screen like i'm entirely focused on you yeah when we record this it's not like we're in a cafe there's other no stimuli going on this is all we've got other than my my brother saying he's ordered me a poppadom can't wait even though i'm now i'm really hungry because i because i want pasta tonight i don't want a curry i thought you're gonna have pizza tonight oh i changed my mind when he said maybe i'll buy pizza on the way thing as i do oh i don't know what i want but it was just all a fluster and i just said just give me one obviously now that i'm hungry i obviously want more than one so what's gonna happen is i'm gonna have some of his and it's gonna even if you were full to the brim i mean one

poppadom be rude not to yeah i wanted it as a snack but now i'm do they sell poppadoms as one can you even get that no because he's getting probably about three or four and i'll get one i was just like just get me one okay yes it was a weird thing i'm now obviously regressing it because my tummy's rumbling you're free to eat whatever you want um but um also we have darl in the fridge okay okay okay yes yes it's fine yeah um enjoy it you're squinting yeah so you i was squinting and you were like why are your eyes closed and i was like oh yeah i don't need to do that like my contact I'm not wearing contacts they're not falling out like no you have perfect eyes need we be reminded I've got perfect eyes and I don't need to wear contacts yeah I'm squinting but I was squinting because I was looking at you and you were squinting and it's

the kind of thing where if someone yawns you start yawning if someone itches their head you then it's your head like all of the things that kind of have biological advantages to do these things clearly in that if someone yawns it's a sign of empathy for then the next person to yawn and the next person to yawn and it's kind of how they tell the tribe we're all tired we're all it's time to bed time no night it's night it's nap time guys but i thought even you saying the word yawn has made me yawn yeah i know because it's like a really cool biological thing that if someone yawns then everyone yawns yeah so i was thinking about like all the things that my body is doing without even

me thinking about it the fact that i clearly empathize with you because without even me consciously thinking i feel sorry that your eyes feel bad or whatever in a conscious level i don't think i even really but on a biological level i must have been kind of letting you know like oh i'm i'm squinting you're not alone in the squinting yeah but i wasn't even conscious that i was doing that that's nice just but I just I've been thinking about the ways in which how many if that's a very basic level of like someone squints and you squint back at them how many ways in conversation someone tells me something do I mirror it back to them or in all of those where in all of those things there must be so many things that I am doing

that have kind of either a biological advantage or I've been socialized to do it or something without even consciously trying to do it you know what that really reminds me of it's a really similar kind of phenomenon I would say and sometimes like I see my boyfriend do it or just like people in my life I reckon you do it sometimes like some of my closest friends really do it a lot and i always notice it yeah it's like when you're speaking or when they're listening to somebody else speak they're really intently listening they're kind of mouthing the words back at them as they're listening it's really sweet it's like as you're so you'll be saying goes without saying listen to goes without saying with seven wing and the person's watching kind of moving their mouth alongside you like really feeling every word yeah um and i just

think it's so sweet like it's such a real cute like yeah biological sign of someone like really intently listening and like sharing that moment with you just being so deep and invested in in you and what you're saying yeah i love that all the little tales of things as well they are tells the legibility of the body even the trained things that we picked up along the way that if someone's speaking and you're going it's like you don't want to say yes but you're trying to say that like i'm on board i'm still there i'm i'm i'm along with it like yeah yeah yeah it's really sweet i really i find all that stuff so interesting me too but i just thought it was interesting that it's like just the assimilation of it as well like

the way that kind of because we have been kind of programmed by biology by kind of evolution yeah to be part of a tribe yeah that if you squint and i obviously feel so tribed with you to use as an adjective i don't know no as a as a verb i would say yeah um but oh what is that tribed i've made it up but what is that well it would be like connected yeah i know but i was trying to think oh don't worry it's just not it's literally nonsense no i know i was making it up and i was thinking what would it be though grammatically just dumb just dumb no it's dumb okay right this is the fifth episode we've done today guys you can't tell yeah that i would if you were squinting i would squint back at you like yeah i'm with you in the squint yeah i thought it was like, okay, there's clearly a load of shit going on that I'm not aware of in all areas.

100%. I mean, that much goes without saying. Yeah. And I love, it's everything. This is what I mean by be curious. Curious of what's going on here. Sorry, but what's curious? What's curious?

That bit always confused me. I was always curious about that as a kid because I used to think, what is that language to say what's curious? bit always confused me i was always curious about that as a kid because i used to think what is that language to say what's curious yeah curious curious and then he's what's curious that just kind of baffled it's just the classic um written by yeah sorry what's curious actually that one kind of isn't written by a 50 year old woman no it's like why is she speaking like that i don't know why is she speaking like she's from the Victorian era? A red flag from the start. Yeah, a real red flag. With a taste of what was to come.

I mean, it gets a lot worse from there. Yeah. Right. It's the least of her crimes. Yeah, it really is. I'm curious what's curious. The crimes of Grindelwald. All right.

Well, we can Bethlehem that up, I think. Yeah. A little bit of Bethlehem, yeah. If you don't have mine. I hope everyone's enjoying Podmas so far. Me too. I'm loving it, I must say. Me too.

What a treat to be in your eardrums every day. And I hope you're enjoying it. I hope you've been eating your chocolate alongside. Oh, yeah. I'm going to have mine now, actually. Perfect. Well, I might have my one popped on. I know.

I'm gutted about that, actually. Sad face. I know. If you popped on. I know, I'm gutted about that. Sad face. I know. If you don't hear from us, assume Slay went right off track. Slay, Slay, Slay. you