Goes Without Saying - “that girl” routines: lemon water & anxiety for breakfast

Episode Date: September 26, 2021

the girlies comparing themselves to each other again ?? nature is healing! in this episode of Goes Without Saying, sephy & wing consider their feelings and fears on the “that girl” trope. if no one sees how aesthetic your life is… is it even aesthetic at all? join the conversation every monday.speak your mind on the @sephyandwing instagram!you’re invited to our discord group chat: https://discord.gg/kZm8XYyM5t Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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So why don't more people know this? I'm Owen Ever. I'm Lane Kaplan-Levinson. And this is a field guide to gay animals. A podcast about queerness in the natural world. The animal kingdom is queer and we are a part. Find a field guide to gay animals on Spotify, Apple. Or wherever you get your podcasts.

Acast helps creators launch, grow, and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast.com Goes Without Saying that you're listening to Goes Without Saying with Sefi and Wing. I'm Sefi and I am joined by Wing. Hi, I'm Wing. And today we're talking about... Stiff as a board. Is it? Me, from me, from me. Oh, I thought you were saying I was. I was like, oh god, sorry. Boo! I'm heckling you. Stiff as a board. Oh god. Oh my god. I'm going, you're shit. You're shit. Skip. Next episode. Today we're talking about the that girl discourse and aesthetics

influencers whose responsibility is it the creator or the consumer how we all kind of curate ourselves to this like romantic aesthetic of like productivity girl boss is it real should we be relatable all of that stuff so i hope you enjoy so i am currently jingling and jangling. Decked out. Jingling and jangling. Because I am wearing all of Naina's jewellery right now. I went into Naina's house and stole all her jewellery. Why does it in the weirdest way sound true?

Naina, if you're looking for your jewellery, it's at my house. So Naina Florence has a jewellery collection out with with en route and she very kindly sent it to us wing has had hers for like a couple weeks now mine hadn't arrived yet i was getting so jealous of wing wearing it all i would see her on facetime and she's wearing it all i'd be like fuck sake but mine literally two minutes before recording i got a delivery there's a man at the door with a big package oh big package and i shouted in his face oh my god i know what this is thank you so much and i ran upstairs and literally tore into it and just put it all on so insane but you're loving it aren't you i'm obsessed i'm obsessed we are obsessed yeah it's so amazing and infinitely grateful and i know we always go on and on and on about Naina,

but I think there's no better thing that we could go on and on about. Exactly. So thank you so much, Naina, for sending us. I honestly was expecting like one thing. I'm so shocked with like, honestly, the quantity of things we've received. It's like, God, is this the best day of my life?

You've been throwing boxes around the room like Christmas day. I really have. It's quite that girl of you, actually. Oh, it's quite that girl of you actually oh it's quite that girl lovely yeah that is the topic of today to be decked out head to toe in gorgeous jewelry no yeah i love it well you we're both feeling quite okay well you said you've been quite like mindsetty mindset is not the word but you go i mean and i feel like i've been quite mindsetty for a bit yeah i think there's been a real focus in both of our lives at the moment of just like being quite um what's the word almost like regimented like um proactive yeah like determined to see disciplined disciplined

is the word yeah that's the word disciplined we're being quite disciplined with making sure that we like view our lives as good and that we do all these things to make sure that we're like not depressed discipline with our choices and perspectives and routines almost but we're also the poster children of talking about how like manifesting and like quote-unquote that girl stuff which we'll get into is so like classist and all about privilege and yada yada yada and kind of just designed to make you feel like shit masked as something to make you feel great yeah my crux of this episode and my only crux i think for this episode is just gonna be like if it makes you feel good great and if it doesn't then i promise you're not doing that bad literally like i'm telling you you're not doing bad like you think you're doing you're probably doing great even if like things are shitty like oh i don't know do you know what i

mean even when things are really shit it's like't know do you know what i mean even when things are really shit it's like look you're still here you're still going good things on their way well that's the only thing that i feel because i feel like i may be hopefully fingers fucking crossed i'm just coming out of quite a hard time like i've had just quite a shit few months um hashtag personal reasons and they and i feel like i'm just coming out of it and i just think when you're in that phase it's literally like this will never end like there's no way yeah that i will ever be happy again like i will never see the light of day again it's the opposite of how can you see clearly when you're blinded by the sun can we talk about this little metaphor that we had going

on yeah yeah how can you see clearly when you're blind by the sun is a metaphor that somebody said to oprah i can't remember who it was can you we've said this before oprah said it in the documentary about michael jackson which we also spoke about in the last episode but she quoted it from someone else didn't she it wasn't even her saying it was it maya angeli no i think i thought it was like her mate or something gail not that mate i don't know i can't remember let me run through oprah's list of friends we could go track it down but it's not maya because it doesn't come up anywhere how can you see clearly when you're blinded by the sun came to us as gospel um like a hallelujah moment when we were watching leaving neverland and all of the accompanying media that came out following it yeah but basically whoever uses

this like analogy of when you're being manipulated or you're you think you're in love or you're just infatuated with someone you're blinded by it so it's how can you see clearly when you're blinded by what you think is the sun but really it's a fucking pedophile but how can you see clearly when you're blinded by the sun yeah and it's the opposite of that when you're in the deep darkness of depression when you're thinking how can i see clearly when you're blinded by the sun yeah and it's the opposite of that when you're in the deep darkness of depression when you're thinking how can i see clearly when i'm blinded by hell on earth yeah it's so true it's so fucking true that metaphor really or not even metaphor that was it a metaphor i don't know that kind of little saying is so revolutionary it really works for everything like there have been so many times when i've quoted

that in life and just been like well how can you see clearly when you're blinded by the sun there it goes there she goes again it kind of works perfectly it's like it's every time well oh i can never quit my job because i've got this amazing experience at this thing it's like well how can you see clearly when you're blinded by the sun perfect chef's kiss the job is that son the son to you that boy is the son to you i think what we're on at the moment i mean god knows what we're on at the moment but i think what we've been trying to get into for like months now is remembering that so much and i always say this but like so much is not by choice so there are so many things working against you yeah talking about like privileges that you may or may not have in all of

that stuff but some things do come down to choice and what we've been trying to do for the past few months is remember like okay these are the choices that i have i'm going to really try and use them yeah because if i don't i'm going to be in the depths of despair and also i think it's the thing is you you are making the decision even though it's like okay it's a habit some things have been built just to view the way you view your life is potentially just a habit you wake out of bed you just feel a bit negative you eat your breakfast just feel a bit negative everything oh the fucking tube was like i feel a bit negative but it's actually like you're still making a choice in that even though it just feels like um you're seeing the reality but it's passive yeah

you are actually making a decision i was actually doing a meditation thing which is one of my hashtag that girl things which i'm absolutely dependent on at the moment they were talking about like so what's one thing that you believe so that it could be that you think that you're like not good enough could be like a belief that you have yeah and then it's like and what feelings does that give you you think about okay that makes me feel really worthless and that makes me feel really shit and that makes me really angry or jealous or whatever okay well let's just try out the opposite thought let's just like let's do a hypothetical thing let's try out another one okay so what's the opposite of the thing that you thought so if it's i'm not good enough it's like okay i am good enough i'm willing to believe okay am i good

enough and then it's like what emotions do you get from that it's like oh well then i get like hope and like positivity and like empowerment and all of these things and it's like okay so if you're making the choice to believe the negative thing you physically can make the choice even just to be willing to try that out yeah exactly i think that's it it's the willingness to try yeah which is so impossible when you're so far from that when you're going through the hashtag personal reasons or you're dealing with real life shit because that is shitty life can be so shitty oh it can be the worst but if you've got choices use them you know what it is it's also like for so god um kind of fabble what's this thing terrible terrible that that's it it's like okay you can't i can't just choose to not live in a world with x y and

z so i can't just choose i'm just gonna choose to like not live in capitalism blah blah i'm gonna choose to be rich exactly yeah i can't choose to rewire my brain i can't choose to change that but i can choose to be willing to to make it to make the smallest move today towards making this more pleasant for me literally the smallest thing i'm gonna choose to walk that different way to work i'm gonna choose to wear something i don't hate yeah i'm going to choose to maybe just even get out of pajamas into fucking trackies i'm just gonna make a small step yeah you can make those tiny things i'm gonna choose to phone someone which all these things sound so easy but they're also so hard we'll catch us all in our beds being like well i'm not fucking getting changed i'm not phoning someone i'm just gonna

continue what i'm doing just gonna scroll scroll scroll yeah i can't be bothered to phone someone yeah exactly so that in contrast to that girl what's the difference what's the difference between that and that girl can i say what the difference is yeah okay yeah go on impossible question uh what do you have an answer i'm not even the difference but just something that i think about the that girl thing is that i think not even the problem or just one of the problems or whatever is that there's no end to it oh like it's never enough that girl quote unquote is never finished it's she's never gonna be so not sustainable whether you're the person trying to be that girl watching the video about my that girl morning routine blah blah or the person filming the that girl morning routine

blah blah it's never enough yeah like it's never it's an impossible it's fucking impossible and it's an aesthetic as well it's not actually based on this like because you also you you can't necessarily like place an aesthetic on like personal growth i think that's one of the things that we like confuse as like this person is doing well because they're aesthetic i saw them drink a green smoothie and i saw them do that it's like actually that's all just footage from different days that they've just piled on yeah i think the difference between that girl and what we're just talking about is like reality and fiction it's like one's not real and one is one

is not attainable and one actually is well i almost think the fiction is still real it's just it's only real in the context of all of the other shit that's going on so like i absolutely believe that that girl routine is real like she does read and she does meditate and she does have a green smoothie she does do those things yeah these things are real but they're accompanied by crying about jeans that didn't fit her yeah or having an argument with her friend or blah blah blah everyone sent this video which i have already seen by i think her name is alice capel nicholas flamel yeah i think her name is alice capel the video is we created that girl came out a couple of weeks ago i watched it right away good old nana is on the front actually she

put a picture of nana on the thumbnail and i thought well i'm fucking clicking on that she's put i'm telling us all my favorite gals are on the cover all my favorite people are on the cover of this that girl um video and she's not being mean but it made me think and we also we put on the questions for the stories which we do every week for the yada yada yada i'm not even gonna go into it the yada's still here yada yada yada one of the questions was yada still yada hasn't left us whose responsibility is it to acknowledge the curation and performativity and fakeness of what's represented on social media? Is it the creator's responsibility or is it the consumer?

I mean, we've still got time on this poll. We're recording a bit early, but at the moment it's 57%. The responsibility lies with the creator. And everyone messaged being like, can I say both? No, you can't say both. But like, of course you can. But like, no, you can't say both but like of course you can but like no you can't for the poll you can't i agree it is in the creator's responsibility but i also think so for example if i'm watching moya's video where she's having her green to it wherever she's

having a whale of a time and i think god i feel like shit watching this video that's not her fault is it no it's just not like how can i be angry at this girl for making this beautiful video and like having a fun life and like yeah i'm sure she has down days and blah blah i'm sure her life isn't perfect but to me watching i think yeah but your life is pretty perfect in my eyes and that's not your fault i don't i think for me i do think creators have responsibility but i also think for me it can't be anyone else's responsibility it has to be mine as a consumer because i also know in so many ways as creators we don't do like okay i know i'm rambling now no you're not but i'm really taking us around the houses but let's go around honestly let's get strapped in for the ride there was an event that sephie and i went to a couple of years ago and megan barton hansel

was there and she was taught she was being interviewed who was on love island if you don't know her which i'm sure you do oh yeah i'm sure you know and someone in the she was talking about social media and perfection and all of those things and someone a man in the crowd said well you know if you know that social media is like perpetuating like bad you know like um impossible beauty standards for young girls you're setting that standard by telling us now that you sometimes edit your photos and like make your jawline look, she like said she edits her double chin, I think she said.

Yeah, she said her double chin. Yeah, and he said, well, then why don't you just stop doing that? And it was quite a big moment in the room, actually. It was, it was kind of, honestly, you could hear a pin drop. The opposite of the crowd went wild and i think the penny hopefully did drop for him that it's like that might be slightly it was scary a slightly kind of blind thing to say like a male lens of like are you understanding the level of scrutiny that like not only an influencer but like a female influencer that is so sexualized

she was on love island do you understand how the the how much the pressure is and she used to be did she used to be a stripper she used to be a pole dancer oh i don't know yeah i think it was a stripper yeah no i think she did so she's she's had like a lifetime of being sexualized and going through the like navigating the motions of like being sexualized being sexual in yourself exploring yourself empowering yourself being screwed tonight all of those things trying to figure that out and a million people are following you it's easy for me to say as a consumer oh i wish i could just see moya like just tell me about you know the dark stuff like blah blah it's like no in no world does she owe

me that no in the same way that i think in no world does megan barton hansen owe anyone really anything yeah and i yes we're all god i mean i feel like for such a heavy episode i should have got my thoughts straight before we started but no your thoughts are straight thanks my thoughts are feeling a bit fruity um i don't know it's this and it's the same thing with the kardashians too in my mind it's like yes they're all you could argue they're the biggest villains of this beauty son of the industry and yada yada yada but they're also victims of it and actually to tie us back to alice capel alice capelli nicholas from alice video um she says in it that you'd actually love this because

you love to talk about the panopticon i do i think it's in this video where she says in it that you'd actually love this because you love to talk about the panopticon i do i think it's in this video where she says basically that girl and the whole notion of it is a kind of panopticon in itself that they and it's kind of just performativity in general you're acting as if you're being viewed the whole time even if you're not you're performing a life for an observer that may or may not be there it was kind of the paradox of being an online person that it's like also like a an offline person too well that it's like you're supposed to film your life but your life is a performance now yeah but then also people offline will watch these that girl videos and they're not even going to film them they'll just take on the parts of the routine

but no one's watching isn't that weird do you know i mean you know when you're like in those moments you're like god this is stunning it's like yeah but no one's seeing it it's completely odd i was thinking when you were talking about vloggers and stuff just because i'm always kind of thinking about emma chamberlain at every moment of the day i think about emma chamberlain because i just i'm obsessed with her so much i think she's so funny so amazing but i was thinking about her because i think if if we've kind of romanticized this idea or like what is seen as like a successful like that girl kind of thing is like a super productive and like visually stunning girl with like the most amazing life. Emma to me kind of sits in this weird camp that I don't really think anyone else sits in that she's like seen as almost she performs or she shows herself being quite like quote unquote lazy and like like disgusting which is then branded as like relatable well she films herself like burping and farting and all of these things that then contradict her at the met gala in a stunning dress with a vogue microphone interviewing fucking

kendall jenner yeah and it's like you see this kind of split personality through her that it's like you get this girl that's like farting in bed with like kale in her teeth and just like cats like walking all over her and then you get this other person that's like this beautiful like louis vuitton styled girl she gets praised so much rightly so for being like quote-unquote relatable is this word that's like put around her relatable she's so relatable and it's interesting to me that it's like relatability has in the way that megan barton hansen for example was critiqued in that event for being um too highly curated and she was too

highly curated therefore it was like damaging to young girls and all of this stuff but then it's like emma chamberlain gets so praised for like not curating it so it's almost like why do we have this demand that yeah but still curated yeah but it's like why why is there this demand that it should be very real very real and it's almost like well it's what's the more powerful currency perfection and that girl or relatability what wins you your audience but then you have to create this weird version that's i'm showing you bits that are still curated of me burping that makes you think that like oh you can trust me you can trust me so that then you don't hate me whilst i'm at the met gala because if she didn't show the clips of her

burping or her fucking crying in her car after her doctor said something about her and things like that that was in the vlog a few vlogs ago um we would all hate her we would go oh she's fucking she's so basic she's look at her what she's so undeserving of being at the met gala why are vloggers at the met gala if she didn't show those bits people would not like her as much it would literally she would be getting so much hate exactly exactly and that's why i think it does largely come down to the consumer again just because we know as consumers we're filling in the blanks with a projection of what we think that person is rather than the reality so if emma's not showing you burping in bed you're not gonna think you're not gonna come up with it yourself but it's funny that what we demand from people

is like you must be this perfect perfect person that looks stunning at the met gala and that's stunning at a photo shoot but i also want to see you in your worst moments it's like the the level that we think we can demand from these like young girls it's like insane and that's why i think we were so shocked in that event when the man said why don't you not airbrush your photos because he's basically saying can we see you burping can we see you being emma chamberlain grace like relatable because that would help my children more but it's like okay well why don't you take a video of you just get got out of bed and see how that feels it to a million people and then imagine you're sexualized on this huge scale it's like okay well why don't you take a video of you just get got out of bed and see how it feels and pose it to a million people and then imagine you're sexualized on this huge scale it's like

you can't even comprehend i know i said this i don't know if i said this on the podcast even but and i don't even know if i said it to you i don't even know if i said it out loud maybe this is just something i said to myself just wrote it in her journal and moved on maybe i did say it to you actually but um it's funny even like this is a small podcast but it's funny what you're willing and we've we talk a lot about being honest and being super authentic and like blah blah blah because we do come in with real there are just something yeah but you know why you listen you know us it's hard to come to a microphone sometimes when it's just like oh i've got shit to say yeah all those things that can't be ignored whatever but it's funny even thinking back to like the beginnings of this podcast even though it's still

so small thinking about like you know of course we were speaking insanely freely then still curated but like of course we would basically i think even oh fuck me god Christ. No, this is great. This is great. Really? Yeah. Okay. It's great. You're just, I think you're just doubting. I'm in, I'm in a mood. Yeah.

Okay, fine. Yeah, no, it's great. I'm a bit flustered maybe. It's fine. Let's slow it down. Okay. Let's put on some calm. ACAST powers the world's best podcasts here's a show that we recommend

nature i've got a gay rooster named francois is so gay these rams are gay i'm studying gay animals does that mean i'm gay so why don't more people know this? I'm Owen Ever. I'm Lane Kaplan-Levinson, and this is a field guide to gay animals. A podcast about queerness in the natural world. The animal kingdom is queer, and we are a part. Find a field guide to gay animals on Spotify, Apple. Or wherever you get your podcasts.

On Spotify, Apple, or wherever you get your podcasts. Acast helps creators launch, grow, and monetize their podcasts. Everywhere. Acast.com. Right. Not even in the beginnings of this podcast, but just this podcast now. A small podcast versus fucking Joe Rogan rogan's podcast the joe rogan experience exclusive to spotify it's easy for us i think about this a lot i think about like how much we say we're authentic and

or like we try to be authentic and whatever it's easy for us to say yeah i'll be authentic and i'll talk about this and i'll talk about how shitty i'm feeling and blah blah blah when the stakes are so low like i i understand like yeah i imagine like we're gonna be heard but i totally appreciate why sophia and chintzy i don't want to go on and on about their personal shit because it's too much there's so many people and the stakes are high there's kind of um the stakes are not low anymore yeah yeah it's not this cutesy little thing there's not sephian wing ceos of shitty little thing it's your molly may in front of pretty little thing everyone hates your guts yeah and what you have to try your best to convince them otherwise this is what i mean about

relatability though if um molly may she's so widely hated which is so she kind of is seen as a the butt of a joke to a lot of people um as just this like pinnacle of like dumb influencer untalented undeserving she gets all this money she's running a fast fashion company now all of this stuff she is so successful but she's so widely hated my point with emma chamberlain burping and stuff if molly may was to get up and um do some fall over at the awards jennifer lawrence style people would fucking love her because of related this idea of relatable she's relatable she's one of us well that yeah people hate molly may because she's not one of us anymore well it's interesting you say that because there's a really diff there's a really different narrative

about her is that why she's so widely loved is because she's so relatable that she shares so much and blah blah oh that's so interesting because i almost feel like she she definitely had this kind of rags to riches kind of ordinary girl that was like trying to be an influencer to suddenly she's on love island it all spirals she's suddenly like ceo of pretty little thing whatever um creative director whatever congrats molly you're saying that she's not relatable anymore but i think a lot of the conversation about her is no i it's not that i don't think she's relatable not that you think that yeah yeah it's not that i don't think she's relatable but i almost think that there's kind of a vibe around molly may that yeah she was an ordinary person i want to love i didn't all of this stuff but then also there's this idea that it's like the the pinnacle of

like curated perfection from her which because also like i don't think her youtube i had quite a you had an experience didn't you went down a bit of a rabbit hole with molly may the other day and i phoned wings straight after and she was like what are you up to i was like do you know about molly may yes i was just quite interested by her youtube because her instagram is obviously like millions of followers she's getting brand deals every second and it's like stunning stunning stunning and her youtube i clicked on it because i was like i wonder what molly may's youtube is like and i was just really impressed by her because it was almost like these aren't getting like huge numbers of views like it's kind of the 500 000 mark each one of them which is obviously a lot of views but it's also not really for someone of her scale um on instagram it's clearly

like her smaller platform and i was just quite impressed because i was like you're purely doing these videos for like the love of youtube and i think the people that probably watch those see her as like hugely relatable she films her life and all of these things yeah i think the mainstream like if i was to ask the daily mail my brother about molly may just someone with the general vibe of who molly may is that doesn't really know who she is they'd be like yeah fucking don't really care just basic influencer and i think the perception is that she's widely hated because she's got this vibe of um i think it's easy to hate love islanders because it's like the curated perfection mindless um vibe which is so horrendous so what makes someone not a basic

influencer then burping is that what we think i think i think it's yeah i genuinely literally comes down to burping i genuinely think it's like people see someone doing something gross for example they see that um their untidy bedroom or they see them going to the shops or they see them on the bus or something like that and they that they code that as like oh they're relatable then they're genuine they're more authentic but actually it's like it could be just as authentic to be going get their makeup done for a fucking photo shoot but because it's because it's not relatable it's seen as inauthentic it's funny isn't it people see like someone looking rough on the internet and they see themselves in that so they think that's really personable and they connect with it but chances are they themselves wouldn't post that on the internet yeah so it's

funny that the people that you connect with are actually the furthest from you because realistically you really connect with emma chamberlain but you would never have the balls to make content like that not you specifically just anyone it's just interesting that we think we relate to someone when they show us something shitty but in reality is you would never be tough enough to do that because we all get a few eyes on us and suddenly want to like do up our collars and like put our socks up and close the curtains and going back to bed for the day exactly yeah somebody said in response to just thoughts on the whole that girl thing the whole that girl thing probably heard of it they said if that and i just thought this sentence was so great they said if i'm that girl what does that make all the other

women and girls around me and it's so true it's kind of um not like yeah like other girls um it's got that kind of ring to it it poses some sort of comparison in the sense that it's not just like you're a great you're amazing it's like oh you're that girl so who are the other girls what's wrong with them do you remember alexa chung had a book that was called it yes it i'm looking right at it yeah because she was the it girl and it's yeah it's like it's that girl is just the evolved version it's kind of the 2000 what is it i was gonna say 2001 2021 jesus yeah that's way back um version of the it girl it's like it's just setting yourself apart but now the aesthetic has changed it got they're different though isn't it yeah it's very different well the aesthetic has changed it's like now it's not alexa chung with a cigarette with like drained

bags under her eyes just kind of stumbling through and also being on tumblr it's now an ice matcher in the morning you've got your books books. You're ready to do your workout. Yeah. And there's an emphasis on like having your life together. It's girl boss. Yeah. Which I don't have to tell you twice. We're not a fan of. I don't think I have to tell you once. I don't know because I do.

I just don't want anyone to feel bad. No. I don't want the people watching these things to feel bad. Or like I don't want the people making them to feel bad. Oh my God. You should never. You should never. Also, if anyone wants to make me an ice matcha i really want one so like if that's what makes you a what that girl call me that girl right yeah i've just been looking at them quite a lot recently and thinking because they're in all those videos yeah like everyone starts their

day with an iced matcha and i just think do you like matcha never had it never had it really i've literally oh no maybe i have had it but i think i made it wrong oh you made it where'd the rest of it go i really want to try it because they look so good do you know who makes a one that looks great who nana i thought you were gonna say emma hey again um i don't know like this is i don't know i don't know i'm almost a bit like i'm not getting into it okay what were you gonna get into come up with the podcast topic and say you know what i'm actually not getting into that not gonna get into it well why don't you get into it i think the whole that girl thing and and also talking

about consumer versus creator and whose responsibility is it to manage like how we feel when we see certain when we consume certain media and blah blah blah i do talk about the kardashians because everyone i feel like maybe my crux i know yes it's very nuanced and it's total gray there's no black and white here it's very complex and i'm not going to summarize it in one, let alone in one episode. But I feel like it is the easier thing to do is to sit back and point your finger at Khloe Kardashian and say, yeah, this is all her fault for this. This whole beauty standard is all her fault. And I'm angry with her for editing her photos and perpetuating this impossible, unattainable

standard. I just feel like it's the easy way out. And it's not necessarily it's not very self-aware it's a complete story and also it doesn't show the culture that created her it's like she's as much as she's a creator of the culture she's also a symptom of the culture that created her it's like chicken or egg totally and i feel like the blindness or the reluctance to to see that is kind of is again just a symptom of where we are now where we consume so much and like at such a vast rate and we do it with so little often like so little kind of intention

let alone like compassion for the person there it's like you'll be mindlessly consuming something let alone like thinking about that other person who's created it for you as a real human speaking of lucy, actually, I know I talked about her in the last episode, but she put up a video. How many influencers take a shot every time we name a different influencer? Fuck, I'm sorry.

She made a video and I can't even remember what the video was. It was lovely. Of course it would be. And just someone left a comment saying, you didn't link the, I can't even remember what it was. Like, you didn't link the app? Question mark. Or like, you didn't link that coffee?

Dot, question mark. It's like- Because I was just drinking it. You've just watched like a 12 minute video. She sat there, filmed. She's been going about her day and thought, fuck, pick up your camera and get that. She sat down and edited it all together.

She's thought, there's so much more than you could ever understand has gone into the making that for you and before even saying love the video or like thanks lucy thumbs up you just said where's the link you you lost that you didn't put the link yeah question mark so who the fuck as if she's just a walking coffee advert i don't understand even so it's like i wouldn't even if she was literally working in a coffee shop i wouldn't walk up to the coffee person and say you didn't post the no you haven't got the right milk today. You didn't put the right coffee out this morning.

Do you know what I mean? Come in and say, hi, how are you? Yeah, I'm just going to be a human to another human. So sorry to bother you. Yeah. Yeah. It's basic. Basic stuff.

It blows my mind coming to somebody else's internet space with an attitude. I just can't imagine coming into someone else's space. with an attitude i just can't imagine coming into someone else's space what is that knocking on their door do you want to make me a coffee so ricky gervais um he has a bit about saying like send a tweet saying like i'm doing free or like if someone had a poster on their door saying like oh i'm doing guitar lessons for free every wednesday at 7 p.m you're not gonna go and knock on the door i fucking hate guitar all right don't come to the lessons then like that wasn't for you like you don't have to go please leave with the attitude yeah i don't know i was kind of thinking when you were saying um well on the story with the whole question of like whose responsibility is it the creator or

the consumer i was kind of thinking about this in terms of you know what you're getting when you when you click on the instagram app you know what you're getting when you click on the instagram app you know that you're going to be bombarded with yeah some people you know and you can lie to yourself and say it's for connection you're connecting with people you know with none of us are we're there to kind of we're there because it's just a fucking habit and we just want to see stunning things i think and make ourselves miserable but you log on you know what you're going to get yeah and then if you get angry it's very similar to me to someone walking into a horror movie and then being like why was i scared why was i scared and that oh my god that was so scary it's like yeah because you you you paid for the ticket you went in you knew

what you got right then but then there's the opposite angle yeah there is a difference in the responsibility of like a director making horror movies that are great and enjoyable and fucking mark zuckerberg setting up social media that's gonna end up killing teenagers literally and to be addictive as well yeah totally it's engineered to kill you and also the difference between a cinema and your phone screen is that you carry it around so it's like you you being scared of horror films you're scared of horror films but you walk around in a cinema your life is a horror movie cinema you're literally watching saw yeah on repeat all day it's making you scared it's making you scared

and it's the same thing as scrolling through oh molly may and her bikini that made me feel bad that girl's what i eat and say that made me feel bad that girl's fucking um earrings i'm jealous of those that nana's earrings i'm jealous of those you should be um that girl's fucking that girl oh my god i slept into 11 today all of that shit it's like you live in a perpetual horror movie so it's not the same as buying a ticket but then i do almost think it it has this kind of double-edged thing you you are paying for a ticket like it's it's the idea that oh i didn't have any choice it's on my phone it's like what world are we are we living in that it's like oh it's on my phone it wasn't my choice but It's like, what world are we living in? That it's like, oh, it's on my phone. It wasn't my choice.

But it's like, but it is though. You choose every day and I choose every day to log into something that makes me feel bad. And then I lie to myself and say, oh, it's just the addiction or social media is so crazy. It's so bad. It's like, but I did have a choice and I betray myself every hour of every day,

essentially multiple times an hour a day by looking at it, walking into the fucking horror movie and watching Saw. I hate myself every hour of every day, essentially. Multiple times an hour a day by looking at it. Walking into the fucking horror movie and watching Saw. I hate Saw. Every day. It's like, there isn't a choice, but it is a choice as well. Right. Well, yeah, I completely agree. What do you expect me to say to that?

Yeah. It's brilliant, but scary. Yeah, brilliant, but scary. Is what that was. Oh, I don't't know that's the thing honestly i'm really sorry people are hearing planes going past i'm honestly in the blitz i think today like there are planes going past every two seconds that's okay can you hear that no not really it's honestly like i don't know what's good i'm gonna go outside and the whole whole

of london's gonna be gone fuck's sake sorry i'm just laughing someone just said he's like what are your thoughts on that girl someone just put the pits but it is the pits they are funny aren't they someone said ew really torn someone said i agree really torn nothing's what i'm torn i'm all out of faith okay oh my god a girl sang that in the school x factor um when i was at school that song she copied one direction and i just thought it was so good i used to love when she says lying naked on the floor because i used to think it was like naked wow you're naked i always picture that on the kitchen floor does she say late naked on the kitchen floor no she just says lying naked on the

floor no i used to imagine bathroom though oh yeah why am i thinking the kitchen is quite weird around all the food honestly it's hygiene disaster probably is bedroom it could be any old yeah i guess it would be bedroom wouldn't it but you're lying naked on the floor should we get the lyrics up yeah so i guess the fortune teller's right should have just should have seen just what was there and that's some holy light you caught beneath my veins and now i don't care i have no luck i don't miss it all that much there's just so many things i love it it's so a time like i can see what her makeup and her hair looks like yeah just through the lyrics well she just says i'm all out of faith this is how i feel i'm cold and i'm shamed i'm cold and i'm shamed i'm shamed lying naked on the floor naked

on the floor illusion never changed into something real i'm wide awake and i can see the perfect sky is torn god it's quite shiverable really anyway yeah literally yeah what are we doing please know someone said it's bullshit to me being that girl seems so boring and bland. I was just thinking as well with that girl. It's a thing that you see the TikToks of it and you see people striving to be it. But I wonder if anyone like actually identifies as that. Like I wonder if anyone is like, I am identifying as that girl. I live by it, someone said. Oh my God, someone said I live by it.

Is it similar to romanticize your life? Oh, it totally is and that's what i was gonna say is i feel like we all are that girl because we all have a day where we like have a nice like i'm sure we've all um kind of had a nice coffee before had a day where you've enjoyed your day yeah like i hope that we've all had two minutes once where we had to be some time yeah well things have just gone a bit right or like we saw a sunset once is it are there ever like what makes you i want to ask you specifically have you ever felt like i'm that girl right now like what are the things that make you feel like i've got it i think

i had that day the other day you had a whole day i think i had a day as in i don't know if it was really a whole day but you know one of those days where it just catches you and you're like i feel good today and also as i said i'm coming out quite a shit period so it really hit me of like i'm having a good day never been happier to hear it honestly yeah i did all my morning i did my yoga i actually am lying i've really not been doing yoga but i might have done yoga on that day i did a meditation and then i went and walked to like this park that's near my house and like sat on a bench and did like my like did some like journaling stuff like on a bench and then i was going on a date that evening that went really bad i threw up everywhere that girl really ended but before that you were being that girl yeah honestly it was so embarrassing i feel so just i'm so sorry, you were being that girl, yeah. Honestly, it was so embarrassing.

I feel so... Just, I'm so sorry if you were the person on that date with me. But... I'm sorry that if they're the person that was on that date with you and they've listened to this whole episode and got to that bit, it's really embarrassing. Hi, nice to meet you. I'm Wayne.

Heard so much about you. No, I'm joking. I haven't. I've heard a normal amount about me.'s all being cut that is going in no no no it's funny maybe but so i was having a great day up into little did i know that night i'd be literally throwing up on a date but uh-huh i was sitting on this bench blah blah and i was like i am gonna go and get my nails done which i haven't done since before the pandemic a long time and you did say it in the other episode yeah and i haven't gone and i bite my nails really badly always have and i have been

particularly biting them in this stressful time where just things have been going wrong one after the other hurdle after hurdle and i've been biting them so much they're like bleeding sort of thing and i was like fuck i think i'm actually just gonna pay the fucking 40 quid that it costs that's some relatable content for you guys relatable now you don't hate me like you would hate don't hate me when I'm at the Met Gala guys. Yeah we don't hate her she's harmless her nails are bleeding she's fine. Bleeding. So I was like okay I'm gonna go just pay the money get fucking acrylics on and then this issue this won't be one of my issues. Deal with the consequences. This won't be an issue I'll be facing tomorrow. Yeah yeah. And I did it and I was just be one of my issues deal with the consequences this won't be an issue i'll be facing tomorrow yeah yeah and i did it and i was just having one of those days where it's like i

was really like i don't know just doing things out of just pure self-love like that was a pure act of like uh-huh self-love and i think it only came because i was like okay i'm gonna take the time and go and journal yeah and like take the time and go on a really nice walk and then do a meditation then have a nice breakfast and all of this stuff and do things just like um tidy my room a bit like put some incense on things like that then it was all ruined in the evening when i threw up on a date a lot i got so drunk i got so drunk not a cute amount not a cute amount i was i had we were in an uber and i stopped the uber and said sorry i need to get out because i'm gonna be sick multiple times right i stopped the uber about three times to be like i'm going to be sick god it was so embarrassing so my that girl thing ended pretty abruptly but i did have a moment of it you threw up that girl yeah but i do have good nails

now yeah what about you do you have some like a moment where you felt like that girl i think i have moments where i'm enjoying my life i I would recommend everyone watch that video. It's called, it's called We Created, quote, that girl. And I'll say it one more time, Alice Capel. I honestly reckon everyone's already seen it because everyone sent it on Instagram to us. Someone even sent a fucking comment from the comment section of that YouTube video saying like, oh, I was thinking about X, Y, and Z.

It was about how that girl is like, incorporates routine so much but that's which is such a like such a thing for autistic people and autistic girls and it's just interesting that it gets put under that girl and there's just a whole nother layer to it that's so interesting yeah yeah it's really interesting and that was in the comment section i saw that comment the other day i do find the emphasis on like structure really interesting with that girl thing it's not like because that's what i mean by it's the opposite of the alexa chung it girl if it's the evolution of it of being this chaotic kind of girl that's in skins that comes in late at night of her makeup going down her face and now

it's like your alarm's going off at five in the morning yeah it's like the complete opposite that we've romanticized it's so weird yeah yeah it's capitalism i guess yeah yeah i just thought it was so interesting they sent that exact comment it's like god i might see you around these parts i'm always lurking in the who knew we were lurking in the same comment section we're gonna run into you lot i feel like that video is we're also i feel like we're a bit late to the that girl conversation but i almost just think i'm happy for everyone else to have the conversation because i just don't want anyone to feel bad do you know what i mean no never absolutely not that girl or otherwise i just think at least from me we don't need any more like i don't know like hot takes i'm not here to like

find no some beautiful like sociological points and bring them to you and also if you feel good waking up at six in the morning seeing the the sunrise, doing your journal, doing your yoga, drinking your matcha iced latte, please send one my way and doing all this stuff. Or if you feel good sleeping until fucking 11, watching an episode of a show when you wake up, staying in pyjamas all day. It's like, yeah, both of those can be the same person.

Yeah. It's like you can be that same person on different days. Catch me on a different day. I've done both of those that week. I feel like it's just all can be that same person on different days catch me on a different day i've done both of those that week i feel like it's just all of our responsibility whether you're the person making the that girl video or the person watching it i think it's all of our responsibility just in general anyway to just be nicer to ourselves that's how i see that day when i decided to get my nails done and stuff it's like it was actually just like an act of self love in a way it's like you just being kind you're gonna go and do a thing purely for you purely a gift for yourself and that's what I think the actual that girl thing is it's like

it's a similar thing to romanticize your life hot girl summer all of these things it's like it's actually just how do you want to live your life let's dedicate to that in some way yeah well and I also think it's kind of the most empowering thing is to see all of these narratives taking off the hot girl summer the that girl the romanticize your life and see that they're made for a certain type of person and that might not be for you but still embody all of the different practices to make your life better even though you don't have to fit into the mold that they're being that they're trying to prescribe yeah you don't have to do it or i guess unintentionally prescribing and also if it's just it's we're fluid you can do that on monday and not on thursday yeah it's all easy totally

all right okay good nice um cool well are we are we going i would also say for everyone that doesn't know we have a discord that you should join because it's so amazing in there like everyone is so nice to each other and people like post their like cute animals and like their crushes and things like that and like their advice from their therapist is one that i really love yeah um so you should go and join that sometimes we get messages saying that people are scared to talk in the discord so i just want to give an announcement release a personal statement to you all to say that you're all nice and that you can talk in the discord and

people are going to be nice to you and if anyone was not nice to you in the discord i would kick them the fuck out kick them the right right out honestly the big bounces in this club you get kicked out yeah first offense out me and harry styles are on it so go join the discord because i just don't think we've said that in a while i think if you're looking for somewhere to chat to people like-minded people if you enjoy this podcast there are loads of other people that also listen loads there are a few apparently yeah a load of them are in there so you can go chat to them nice thank you guys for being here thank you for listening thanks so much i hope you're having an amazing day i hope you're just i hope everything's going well i hope your food is extra

great actually feeling quite emotional all of a sudden sephi said earlier during the break that someone was saying that they list they put this on like to sleep too and that just really like brings a tear to my eye it's very intimate and like pure why i love the fact that someone listens to this to go to sleep and if you listen to this to go to pure why i love the fact that someone listens to this to go to sleep and if you listen to this to go to sleep why i love that particularly is because it's like oh we don't wake up no i'm joking wake up bitch do not go to sleep do not fall asleep now guys i'm joking i'm joking but why i love that is because it's like you're not triggered by us because i could never listen to something that could potentially trigger me whilst i'm going to sleep it's like oh wait you listen to this because it's like comforting to you

I really like that yeah I think it's just that you feel oh I can't even think about it like just so nice I mean it's mutual yeah it's really mutual well if you don't hear from us I seem the worst I guess