Goes Without Saying - the cringe of Trying

Episode Date: July 21, 2024

THE SUMMER BONANZA BEGINS. podmothers sephy & wing enter the chat: spiralling on getting what you want, the embarrassment of desire, being 'too old' to start, passion, resourcefulness, and the 'higher fire'. ✷see more ✷ www.youtube.com/@sephyandwing ✷ www.instagram.com/sephyandwing ✷ www.tiktok.com/@sephyandwingshop ✷ www.sephyandwing.co.uk Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Goes without saying our YouTube has dropped finally we have been filming non-stop, hygiene has ensued and now the Sephian Wing cinematic universe is live and ready for you to come and enjoy. There'll be videos all through July and hopefully ongoing as well but come and just see what's going on. Till the end of time. Yeah. Oh wait where can they find it? Type in Sephian Wing guys you know how to use YouTube. Yeah and it's also on our instagram sephian wing. it's also linked below if you need if you need some help. yeah yeah. hi. hi. um we were just about to start this one and you were like that's so us. cringe. yeah perfect cringe. you're like should we do the cringe of trying?

it's like perfect that's just sephian wing all over. capital c cringe. we are cringey and we are trying. oh look it's the only way it's actually the only way sometimes you just have to resign to the cringe. oh i've resigned a long time ago yeah they've still my resignation letter. i handed in my notice but sometimes they pull me back in and i do a part-time back at the... Do you know what I mean? You have to remind yourself sometimes of like, no, I just... I have to do this. But I must be cringe. I was thinking, I don't know why was I thinking this, but I was really picturing the beginnings

of us doing this. Like there have been so many stages and I feel like I've really marked the stages from where I lived at the time just because I've lived in so many houses since we started this podcast. I've moved four times in that time. Yeah, maybe more. And each one has sort of a distinct, and also they sort of coincided with the new logos we've had as well, four different logos in that time as well. I really can feel each phase of this really viscerally. Same. I was thinking about the very beginnings of us starting this and

I really tuned into the energy of how much we wanted it. We really, really, to a bizarre level there were no hints at all of it being successful. not at all. if anything hints on the opposition. not even hints, direct slaps in the face of like turn back. this is not going to work. turn back. danger ahead. literally.

do not do this. do not do this. i think we really do take for granted how much we wanted it. I think I just had a moment where I felt that desire of those two girls, which we often call the higher fire. Which I was really like, oh my god, I think I forgot how much this was built on just a desire for something that didn't exist. And now that we have it, it is so easy to forget those milestones like I found a thing that was like it was just a photo on my phone but it's in one of our like many we have like a purple folder that has all of our stuff in it

from the very beginning of all our plans. It's got all our stuff in it. It's got all our plans. I should have sent it to you because now it's deep in my camera roll again. That whole folder is in my loft at the moment so I can't see it. But it was like all of the things that we wanted and it was like management was on there, a live show was on there, merch was on there. Just all of this stuff was on there and it's like wait, so many of these things are ticked off. So many weren't, but so many were like, we've got that! We would have screamed if we knew. Yeah. And still scream now. I think that's the thing of wanting something that is not guaranteed is really difficult. Or like, it is painful and it's fucking weird actually. it's really fucking weird to be like oh god

i want it so bad. yeah it's so crazy. in a way i found it kind of easier. go on. well like i think there's a comfort in wanting something you don't have. that feels familiar. in purely running off delusion. yeah and it feels like i think i'm familiar with that feeling of like oh oh I want all these things that are out of reach, or like, oh I want a million pounds but I'll never have it sort of thing, or like I want, I walk past a house that's beautiful, I want that, I'll never have it. Like, oh I want that beautiful dress, I'll never have it. You know, all of these stupid things. To want something feels really familiar.

Like you can live in the desire for it, that sort of like painful, but like quite addictive desire. Like we're building a thing that's small. Yeah, and it really felt like me and you doing this really internal thing for a tiny, tiny audience. And there was something quite like comforting about- Even the absence of an audience. Yeah. Even just us, there was a long time where we were doing it, I was doing it for you and you were doing it for me.

It's like who else are we talking to? Totally. It's literally like, that's actually nuts. It's nuts, it's absolutely nuts. That's fucking nuts. But there was something like, it felt really like it's all in the potential at that point. Exactly. You've got it all to play

for. Yeah like I'm more uncomfortable like I have had to and I'm not uncomfortable at all but like I feel like it's been a series of like learnings to get me to the point where I'm like accepting that like oh wait we did it and now you're in it you don't have to like prove anything or like fight for anything now is the point that you've been working towards to just enjoy it to just be in it and enjoying it is quite hard i think like you're always it's just the like capitalist drive to be like and next and next and next and i desperately don't want to be one of those people that um is constantly like looking for the next thing i really do just want to like enjoy the like bit that we thought was out of reach but now we're suddenly in it. yeah. i would love to just be able to enjoy that but that

has been way um it's been hard to just to be like wait okay so actually now enjoy it it's like wait but how? how do you enjoy it? i think that's the thing as well of thinking like this it was not a given that anybody would ever listen and it's really that's a weird thing. I almost don't know How you do that? How do you make a podcast from scratch and start convincing people to listen? I don't know what that route would be. I can't tell you. Yeah, I wouldn't know unfortunately How that starts to happen? It would be- I can't tell you what kind of people you need to be to do something so wrong. No, to do such a thing. Because they don't sound-

But I remember- Clever. They sound insane. And they are. I can confirm. But I remember our manager saying about something, there was something that we wanted to do. And we were talking about it,

we were talking about the challenge of it. And then I was also kind of saying, that to me, this weird challenge feels so much more doable than the idea of if I was told, okay, you're going to start a podcast from nothing, no one's listening, how do you get people to listen? That seems harder than anything else now. It's like that first step of like moving into something that functions internally and it goes out to nobody. Moving that from that space into a space where,

yeah, people are turning up to listen. God, that feels like an impossible task. That is an impossible task. I don't know how you get around that. And I still don't know, I don't know how you found us. And I don't want to know. It's just, I'll just be happy. Well, it's gonna be like, you followed me

or like you sent me a weird message being like, hey, you would really like it. Do you know what I mean? It's gonna like uncover all these deep dark memories of like those desperate times. Of like 2019 internet. It's really scary. But I also, it is the thing that you were saying

of like the self esteem around, when something is out of reach, you kind of think if I made it to that goalpost, nothing else would matter. I'll never be sad again and I'll be a different person by that point. And it's like, yeah, I am a different person, but I mean, I still- But I'm also the exact same person.

I'm still the exact same going on about the same old shit with the same old problems, the same old bad tendencies and unhelpful habits and all of these things. And I don't feel this god-like security that I thought would come from achieving the things that I wanted. I didn't get that beautiful stamp of approval from the universe that meant I'll be happy forever. It didn't come. I am so happy with us and the space. I'm so happy that we've done this and I do feel Literally overwhelmingly grateful for it every single day in a really active sense every day I like there will be a moment where I'll be like I

Actually can't believe this is nuts and I'm so happy about it. Thank freakin God. Thank the Lord. Thank the priestess is above But I didn't get that thing that turned me into a different person because it doesn't exist. And I think we have this weird idea of like what a certain goal will look like if you achieve that, everything will be fixed. And it won't necessarily be fixed. That doesn't mean you're not going to have fun or it doesn't mean it isn't great, it is still great, but it's very surreal to get something that you wanted and also you will still feel like a piece of shit while you do it so you may as well just have fun. totally. it's the weirdest thing. i just feel like sometimes

it sort of hits out of nowhere. it's like a nostalgic feeling that i get of like wait, wait, wait, wait wait wait wait wait literally wait what like almost I can't believe we've been doing this for so long and like to get that feeling of those beginning times it's like oh my god I'm so glad that feeling was enough to carry us through through to the next stage and then the feeling we got was then enough to carry us through to the next stage like you couldn't even oh I don't't know, you couldn't even map it out, it's not a planable thing, it's just you have to be able to rely on literally delusion is the only thing that I can put to name of that energy of just like absolute manic delusion of like, I think I can do this thing. Why? No evidence, no reason, I just think I can.

It's like, well that doesn't sound- That's actually not! It's true can it's like well that doesn't sound It's true. It's like there's no basis to it at all No, I'm really surprised it worked same same But yeah, it's so fucking weird is that thing that we always say of like I didn't know there was a sapphire wing shaped hole In the universe that we could fill and then was that wasn't we squeezed out with fill and there wasn't necessarily. there wasn't. we squeezed it out with our hair. we ripped a hole in the fabric. and god knows where you can squeeze your way in. honestly. like, you might be able to squeeze

your way in to certain places that you didn't even think were an option. and it's really important to push yourself i think. it's really important. and it's also not ever too late. god no. like, i remember thinking, like, cos we started this at the end well we started this in our third year of uni yeah and i remember thinking oh probably nothing's gonna happen now like not about this but before we started i kind of thought i thought yeah i thought my life was already done

i was probably like 22, literally like 23, Maybe younger. I literally thought like, oh well if it hasn't happened now, there's probably not. What? Oh my god. Do you know what I mean though? I think, and it is that nobody's coming Harry feeling of like, I think for a long time, my default experience, and I'm sure lots of others, is that you live in the mindset of like waiting to be plucked out and chosen and put wherever you want to go. And unfortunately, you'll be waiting literally till your dying day,

probably, unless you're like luckier than me. I can imagine, nobody's coming, Harry. No one's coming to pick you up and see something in you. You really have to scream and shout to the world who you think you are. like, you have to let people know like, oh no, I could speak on a podcast, I promise. Like trust me, watch me, I'll prove it to you. Day in, day out, you still don't believe me? Well, here I am, still going, July Bonanza, see you tomorrow.

It's like, I will not shut the fuck up. People do not necessarily recognize things in you and offer you opportunities unless you literally scream it in their freaking faces. and it is your human right to do that. i even think the narrative with that sometimes is, if you prove you do it enough, you've got the skills, you prove your skills at it, then someone will have to pay attention and someone will have to give you an opportunity. but I just don't think it's true at all.

I feel like you, if you're choosing that path of like, okay, so I'm going to prove that I can do this. I'm not going to wait to be picked by, for example, you're a singer. I'm going to wait for, I'm going to prove to these record labels until they can't ignore me that I deserve to be signed, blah, blah, blah. I still feel like even when you've proved that you are the thing, you've got like a huge body of work, you've got loads of albums out, whatever that you've done yourself, still I don't necessarily feel like even then my experience has not been that there are sort of industries noticing you, they can't ignore you. It's more that it's like and then

you just keep going, like you keep making your own thing and you get to do it Yeah, you get it for you. You hacked your way into that life totally I feel like the narrative is off though Like the narrative is still based on like these like old industry terms and like yeah, of course those things help so much But I really do feel like the prize isn't at the end, they'll notice you. No, the prize is that you get to doing it. Yeah. 100%. And I think that's the thing that it's like,

we are looking for permission a lot as people. Yeah. Like I'm looking for permission to, for example, start a podcast. Yeah, no, I mean, I'll give you permission. Yeah, definitely do that. But that's as best you're gonna get. There's no one reaching down their godly hand and saying, hey, hop on, let'll give you permission. Yeah, definitely do that. But that's as best you're gonna get. There's no one reaching down their godly hand

and saying, hey, hop on, let's start a pod. Like nobody- Unless you're some wild nepo baby situation where it's like you kind of get given a thing. But I just feel like those are so, I mean, it's just not happening, is it? Yeah, you have to, please, have some sort of belief in yourself.

And I literally cannot say this one more freaking time I'm actually going to knock myself out With how annoying this is so many things so many things so many things structurally So many things socially getting in your way stopping you from the things that you want and the things that you deserve Ultimately one of those things getting in your way. Who is it? I know her it's you way, stopping you from the things that you want and the things that you deserve. Ultimately, one of those things getting in your way, who is it? I know her, it's you. Oh look, there she goes now. Listening to that podcast. There she goes. There she goes now. Somebody stop her. Somebody sit that kid down and say, I think you could do it if you just gave yourself

a bit more credit. I think you could do that if you just allowed yourself to be a bit embarrassing and put yourself out there a bit more. and there is just the big question of like what are you waiting for? like what is the thing that you're waiting for? because so often i don't know. i will kind of give us a pat on the back here which i mean i'm here to receive it I'm hesitant to do but I will I feel like often people create barriers for the reasons that they can't do things for example okay so I want to start a business but I need all these resources so I can't do that I'll need my own space that I'm working from so I can't

do this I'll need to pay rent there and all of these things blah blah blah. I feel like we really, there were some parallels when we first started the podcast that I was looking at, and just people that had started small podcasts at a similar time, and we were minuscule, they were probably bigger than us, and a lot of them I remember hearing that they were going quite broke essentially because they rent for their studio and they'd hired amazing cameras and amazing microphones and were spending loads on ad spend and stuff like that, trying to boost their posters, ads and stuff. And whilst that stuff is really important and can come later, I feel like we always knew that that was out

of the question for us. we always knew it's like okay so we have no option but to keep our expenses at like zero because we were not making a single penny. we had no pennies to give. we had no pennies. literally. and like not saying that to be cute. no pennies. literally there was no money. like nothing. We bought our microphones. I didn't even, I found my microphone in my dad's old cupboard. And I used my phone. And you used your phone. My phone was a microphone for like a year or two maybe. Which was a great app. There was an amazing app called Opinion. Opinion. Which for some reason the quality was so good. RIP. They, that actually deserves, that's a big...

A big loss actually. Yeah, internally the app Opinion between Sefi and Wing, it really it gets a lot of praise. You guys would never know because we would never acknowledge that. It was as good as a microphone just off a phone. It was so good. It was so so good. Which is so weird because you would think that the phone's microphone is just the phone's microphone and would be the same on voice notes but it's not. It's definitely... no no it's definitely not. Definitely not. I'm sure there's equivalent apps out there now though. Well we've tried them none are as good as Opinion. No none of the ones we've tried are as good as Opinion by miles. By miles. There's actually nothing.

It just closed down one day. I don't know I actually I don't know what to tell you. It was a great app. It was crazy. And I'm so sad about that. So rest in peace Opinion but, I just feel like we were really not silly like I feel like there's an ego in being like, okay, so we need a studio, like we need this and we need this blah blah blah. Or like we need to hire a designer. A designer, an editor, a producer, a writer, a marketer, anything. Absolutely not. It was just at the time, it was like, okay, so we will learn to edit, which didn't, to be honest, take much learning.

It's like so- Yeah, guys, you can do that with your eyes closed. Yeah, literally you can. And then also- Anyone under the age of 30, 35. And we designed our first fucking thing. I mean, you literally did it on Canva. Everything we've ever done, yeah.

But you were doing them on Canva. Yeah. And we would make little posts on Canva. I would still use Canva now. It's a very good resource. it's a great resource. but like at the beginning wing did not have an ipad. she had never done anything like designing before. like that was a real skill and you can see you growing through all of the logos. like i remember some of the first designs that you sent me. i mean you'd shudder at them now. You've very much learnt this skill through doing it.

I think I really, this concept is a touchy one for me because I feel the resistance every time I have this conversation with people in my life and I feel it in myself. The thing of like when you want to do something, there is such a security in telling yourself, oh well, I don't have the equipment for that. Or like, oh well, I'll have to pay 200 quid for that sort of thing. So you're not the barrier, something else is.

Exactly, it's really, it's like, oh I'd love to start going for a run but I don't have any running shoes, so I can't. I don't have the time, I'm too busy. And I do think, I think that was a crucial thing in us starting, and something I do is like, if I'm starting a new hobby, I will resist as long as possible putting any money on it. Don't really know, it's not necessarily,

might not be good advice, but I want to prove to myself that I'm committed to it beyond like core equipment for it. Or like, I just, I know that ultimately I wanna be safe to like put it down in two weeks time and never touch it again. And I don't want to make myself feel guilty over something. Like I want to prove to myself that I'm in, I have an interest in it and I'm gonna keep up with it

for more than like a week before I pay for a podcast studio for example, which we still have never done by the way. Never ever. No never. Never paid for a podcast studio. We're so cheap. We're so cheap but also like cheap isn't, it's not even the story. Do you think it's resourceful? Because I'm happy to put that word off.

I think it's so resourceful. I also think it's like, I'm not under, I just, I know what I'm like. And I know if I tell myself, running is a good one. Cause it's like, I don't run. So it would require some moves in my mind. I can see the thing of being like, I don't have the right shoes. I don't have the right equipment.

I want to get like an armband so I can wear my phone on my thing. Or like, I want to get like a, do you know what I mean? Or like, I don't have a route root like all of this stuff that is like I'm sure it makes the experience feel great like to have a podcast studio it will feel great yeah but I need to prove to myself this is a personal this is a wings issue I need to prove to myself very much that I am dedicated to this for like five days before I try four years start investing in all of these like markers of something that probably aren't gonna hold

up because I need to live in the freedom of being like I can give up running tomorrow and that's fine because I didn't just spend 200 quid on running shoes. Yeah well we've been doing I don't think we've really spent I don't think we've spent over like a hundred quid really. We pay for the hosting of the podcast, is that kind of the only thing we've ever paid for? Yeah, and like travel, but like what is that? Yeah, I mean, that's it isn't it?

Even the headphones that I've got in right now. But it's not about the money specifically, it's about the action of identifying something that you think you need, when actually you maybe don't need it. But also that's what runs it into the ground. I think that one of the reasons that this has been sustainable is that we didn't base it on like, yeah, of course, it would have been absolutely amazing

to have had a studio at those beginning stages. It would have made, because I feel like the thing you're fighting at the beginning is, as we say, the permission. You feel like you're inadequate in it. You feel like it's not validated. If we had a studio that we could show people at the beginning, people would be like,

oh wow, okay, yeah, you're really committed. And it's not a silly little thing. People would, but I would be like, fuck, I'm operating from a loss. I've spent like 800 quid that I definitely don't have on a studio, so now there's so much pressure wrapped up into this thing that I'm trying. Yeah.

And I just can't, I can't try like that. Do you know what I mean? Like I want the space to breathe. I really think it also takes away, oh I don't know. Like someone was saying to me the other day, I want to start screen printing, so I've been looking at all this stuff for it

and I think I'm gonna get this one, it's like a few hundred quid. And I was like, why, look, with love, always with love. Why, like have you considered maybe typing in local screen printing near me and just go in and find some sort of day rate where you can even have an hour with the- You can get the thing off eBay.

But even that, yeah, I'm sure. But why don't you, before you, maybe we've got commitment issues. I don't need to commit like that straight away Do you know what I mean? I don't want to commit like that because I will feel suffocated And also then you have just a screen printing thing lying around your house In a yeah, I like to prove to myself that I really need something Before I commit to it in that way. Does that make sense? Totally. I do genuinely think it's one of the... I think it's a thing to resist.

I think it's about patience. Yeah. Yeah. I really think there is an urge. I definitely have an urge to... Same. Especially at the beginning. I want the new things. I'll be like, well, why don't we get a studio? And then it a moment to think of like that will run us into the ground we will never continue this thing again and it makes so much like i really do think like being smart at the beginning is really crucial and to be honest it makes it more cringe to not have the material so i do think it like kind of fits into this whole topic of like being cringe it makes it so much harder to be screen printing without any of the fucking

screen printing equipment because you don't have the identity of someone that's screen printing or running. Like my mum will go for a run in her fucking normal clothes. It's like, yeah, no, that is so much more cringe because it's like, why do you not look like any of the other runners that are in there like they're running it? But that to me is better. Yeah, I think it's cause I feel so much that when you're in that deluded momentum, when you're in that swing of the buzz, the higher fires kicked in and it's like,

oh my God, I'm gonna start running. And all of a sudden it's all you can think about and you're so excited and you're like buzzing and you literally can't wait and you're so like, ah, running off the walls sort of thing yeah there's not much stopping you from being like ebay running like treadmill a hundred quid like and then all of a sudden you wake up tomorrow and there's a fucking treadmill in your hallway and it's like shit i shouldn't have done that. is that the fire is that the excitement and the

higher fire for running or having the identity of a runner. Exactly. Like there is such a difference between- You're jumping six months ahead and you haven't earned that right. I think that's the thing. You have to earn it. You have to earn it. At least for me personally. I want to feel like I've earned it. I want to get six months in and be like- I just want to be smart with it. I want to get like a few months in and be like, oh my God, I'm going to get those running shoes

now because it will really like elevate my experience. And I've really, I a few months in and be like oh my god I'm gonna get those running shoes now cuz it'll really like elevate my experience and I've really yeah I've been so in it and I now I've really earned it or like I think it's get it as and when you need Yeah, like I really do think like because okay So I I go for a run every now and then a running is a thing that I sometimes enjoy. I The last thing I was doing It's so true I a romantic language. It's insane. It's true. It's like I don't... It's just...

It's so true. It's so hard. I don't... She's not connected to it. She's a king runner. You know, like I'm not like fucking amazing runner. I'll go for a runner every now and then. It's like I buy the things as and when I need it.

It's like, okay, so I need new trainers. And even then I'm like getting my friend's student discounts on them. That's the thing that I needed. And then like months later I was like, okay, so I'm like getting my friend's student discounts on them. That's the thing that I needed and then like months later I was like okay so I'm a bit sick of carrying my bag around. I will buy one of those little running bags or things. Not about carrying my phone in my hand and stuff. I could buy one of those little bags. It's just about identifying when you need those things and I think that really translates into like before you start the painting that you want to do, you don't maybe need the whole set of brushes.

you don't. maybe just buy the brush that you need or see, you know, it's just being smart with it. it's hard. it's hard. because there's a huge part of me that's like, yeah fuck it guys, buy it. buy it all and do whatever you want. or if you can afford it then buy it. we couldn't afford it. oh if you can afford it. if you can afford it. this whole conversation is redundant. it's like, yeah why haven't you done it? you should definitely go for it. as you can afford it this whole conversation is redundant it's like yeah why haven't you done it like should definitely go for it like as you please

but I don't know I just know how I feel when I get my head onto something and I suddenly I've got an idea and it's all very dangerous and it's like now that's all I can think about I do stupid things or I have a temptation to be like oh I want the lot I'm gonna have the whole lot. And it's like, because I'm focused on what that might look like for me in a year's time, rather than the experience of getting there. The baby steps. Because also that's the sort of thing

that would have run us straight into the fucking ground. If we were thinking about what it looks like now in day 10 or week two or something, we'd be fucking toast. Like, you need to take the steps as they can. Because that's the fun bit. You suck all the fun out of it. You can't just run, you can't, doesn't count doing the marathon if you just get the tube to the fucking finish line. Doesn't count. You didn't run the marathon like just because you're here at the party. I run them all the time, I always get the tube runned. No no no like, take pleasure in the experience of getting there. Also it is so fun that bit.

Exactly. Also we're still in it, like we're by no means... I'm literally in bed with the microphone with my laptop on the side and it's like, that's exactly how it started. And it's how I'll go out. And I'm at the same table. I'm in my childhood bedroom guys. Start as you mean to go on, like I am. I will do this to my dying day. It ought to look like this. 100%. For the fun of it. These headphones are the same headphones that they're wired.

I think they actually belong to one of my housemates that after she moved out I found them and I was like fuck I can't really say I had them so now I've just had them for ages. I'm so sorry if you're listening to this. I have had your headphones for like three years now. If you want them back I'm so sorry it was a complete accident. You're not getting them now they've got sentimental value. It was a complete accident I swear. And these headphones every Wings voice has been coming through these for four years. These sweet sweet wired headphones with the old plug you know like not the new one that yeah ancient ancient is the relics relics from the past guys okay well I hope everyone feels like you can do it is the message yeah you can do it that's

what I'm trying so I think the message is like you can do it brackets if you're get off of Amazon don't get carried away because that is the temptation and if you want it I think that's the thing is that is the temptation. And if you want it, I think that's the thing, is you can do it if you want it. I believe in you. Yeah, 100%. Summer, summer, summer, summer, summer, summer, summer.