Goes Without Saying - the isolating struggle of your 20s: *cries in lost & unemployed*

Episode Date: September 16, 2024

podmothers sephy & wing enter the chat: spiralling on loneliness, class struggles, jealousy and anxiety, shame and failure, and the unemployment curse of your early 20s. ✷see more ✷ www.youtube.com/@sephyandwing ✷ www.instagram.com/sephyandwing ✷ www.tiktok.com/@sephyandwingshop ✷ www.sephyandwing.co.uk Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

ACAS powers the world's best podcasts. Here's a show that we recommend. On Set With from HGTV and Max takes you behind the scenes of the most iconic on-screen worlds with the people who made them real. I'm the production designer. Director of photography. Costume designer. Set decorator. Find out how these spaces that live rent free in our minds

came to be and provide the perfect backdrop for our favorite TV shows like Friends, My eyes, my eyes. True Detective, time is a flat circle. And more. Listen to On Set With on Macs or wherever you get your podcasts. Acast helps creators launch, grow, and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast.com.

Goes without saying, you're listening to Goes Without Saying with Sefi and Wing. I'm Wing. And I'm Sefi. This has been a really fun, quite passionate episode. Quite fresh. I feel like we haven't spoken about this in a bit. It definitely feels like something we're speaking about, just the two of us behind your backs in our real lives. So I feel like we just need to air some things out on the pod. We're

talking about classically class nepo babies privilege and also just the uncertainty that comes with being young women in your early 20s and being dumped out into the deep end of the world and wondering who you are, where you're going and if you're all on your own. Spoiler, you're not. Sending so much love. Enjoy the pod. How's it going? Good.

How are you? Yeah, good. Good. We've done our classic Sefie and Wing bonanza and just spent like an hour chatting, which is always nice. It's just classic. And also that this is coming out on the Monday morning mm-hmm it's coming out like now so this is truly

half the press it really is and I mean I don't know what we're gonna get into but we'll just yeah where it takes us I'm still a little bit ill by the way just in case my voice is sounding annoying but no not annoying but I'm sad for you I feel like you sound more bunged than you did before really yeah I could have you know how like at the end of an illness it sort of changes or there are many different phases of an illness I'm very much in my bunged phase now that's a shame I hope it passes quickly same I think today might be the last day I hope so well how is everyone how are you you slept last night oh okay be the last day. I hope so. Well how is everyone? How are you? You slept last night. Oh okay so the last time we spoke I was probably saying that I haven't been

sleeping. Cut to I did actually sleep last night for the first time in like a week. Obviously I have been sleeping but this is the first time I've slept through the night not woken up at 2am. Like an actual demon. Like I started to think like am I possessed? Like to wake up at 2am like an actual demon like i started to think like am i possessed like to wake up at the same time and just kind of like be so wide awake and alert ready to like speak through satan literally we were talking earlier you were saying we've been talking about sleep paralysis we have um with freya and molly in fact as well molly the first time molly's getting a shout out is it okay so new character unlocked in this FF1 universe. New character unlocked guys. Molly, another one. I actually was thinking the other day, we will get into the sleep paralysis thing, but I was thinking,

I can't remember what it was. Well, just the other day we went and we, yeah, I guess it was the sleep paralysis day, it must have just really hit me. Because I was really thinking about how nice that was and I was thinking like, so nice to have Freya and Molly, like, we're just very lucky. It is so nice. It's nice, isn't it? thinking like so nice to have Freya and Molly like we're just very lucky. It is so nice. It's nice isn't it? It's so nice to have people that you like kind of looking after you in this world. Yeah. It's like oh that's nice. We're just we've got we've actually hit we've hit gold we've we've got lucky somehow. I don't know how because you hear horror stories of people's managers and stuff. Boy do you. And it's like, whoa Lucky us our managers are telling us stories. So sleep paralysis we've been getting into a bit

Yeah, which always hits. Does Farrah want her sleep paralysis stories on the internet? I don't know but she's being being haunted Which how dare they honestly? By some scary figures to be honest. It's a weird time. We were talking about sleep paralysis Oh, we should probably save this a little bit for our spooky season yeah but like we were talking we had a big conversation at Caspar Lee's partay which wasn't actually in attendance. He wasn't. We did see Joe Sugg. Wait can we say that Joe Sugg was like oh I'm leaving now I've got to go back to Brighton yeah and I was like oh same I'm going back to Brighton and I really after I said to like Sefi and Freya and Molly Etc that I so should have been like, oh cool. Let's go together

Are you leaving now? Come on then, let's go and sit on the two-hour train together. Go on then, get your things And just watch him be like, oh I don't want to do that It would have been so good. Like I would literally have loved like the panic to wash over his face It would have been so good. like I would literally have loved like the panic to wash over his face. it would have been so good. we should save our stories of like our sleep paralysis because we both had sleep paralysis in our lives. many times. and yeah I would love to discuss them properly. should we do something spooky this year? are we doing a spooktacular bonanza extravaganza?

We have to. Okay. Surely, you know? Works for me. I've got my thoughts on that. I love when we do the daily apps. All right, shall we get in? Yeah, let's do it.

Do you have anything to start us off? No, so we're talking about comparison, kind of life, friendship. Kind of life. Comes into this. Womanhood, I think, comes into this. Like the fact that women are bred for captivity and comparison. This sort of thing is a universal issue, I think everyone's going

to relate to this. So this specifically was kicked off because of messages in the crux club were still rummaging through. We asked ages ago now, like months ago, two months ago, for people to say what they wanted us to record on next and buried in there that we found today was someone saying comparison and feeling the weight of comparison like currently because they're at uni. And it's just always relevant. Uni though is particularly it. We've spoken about this so much. Also because me and Wing went to uni together,

if you didn't already know. We did. We lived together third year of uni. We did. Which is where this all started. It did. And I think uni is like breeding ground for these feelings because you're thrown together with I

don't know people of the same age people from God knows where huge thing like it's all of these themes are really it's like a boiling pot of all of this stuff mm-hmm like relationships all enhance friendships all enhance academic stress money living situations everything is with these people and you're so young as well. i think also uni kind of is semi easier than the bit that follows. agreed. agreed. i think graduate it. i think if you think uni's bad, jesus, hold on to your hats. but then i think it gets better again. I just feel like that bit of just after you leave is so fucking tough.

And like almost as soon as, I've been watching Fresh Meat a lot recently. I've honestly, I've like did the whole, I think there's three seasons, I did all of them. If you're going to uni, great thing to watch before. In the last season, like last few episodes, it's just so sad because they're all graduating and it's like, they're all obviously going off to do different things.

And I was really thinking, God, I don't think I was prepared for that bit. Maybe after exams, like people are lingering around or like you're just, you're doing your dissertations and it really is like that last special bit until everything changes. And of course things like, I have friendships that have kept going since uni, me and Weng being one of them. But also it is different. It is just so different. It's so different. I think the main crux as well is it's such a time, beginning of uni, whatever, even just not going to uni and being in your early 20s, I don't think you can escape the weird sort of chemicals in your brain that are telling I don't think you can escape the weird sort of chemicals

in your brain that are telling you that like, you're a piece of shit, you're not good enough, everyone else has it sorted, like you're a fucking idiot, like why can't you keep up with what everyone else is doing? Yeah. And yeah, you are probably not the only one around here who's looking around thinking, why has everyone got it so much better?

Why am I not doing the right thing, et cetera, et cetera? Totally, that is the experience. And also I think it is just, of course, such a class issue of some people will go up off and have things extremely easy. Some people will go off, have things kind of the normal hard life. Some people will go off, have things kind of the normal hard life. Some people go off and have things extremely hard and

That is all in some ways predetermined. Like there is only so much you can do within your circumstances You can do like, I don't know. I'm not trying to be hopeless, but like there is an inherent struggle Yeah for some people. Oh my god. I mean Yeah, yeah, there is. That doesn't mean that you can't, of course, of course, the whole point is to like, oh, it's the whole fucking point is to not do that. This whole point of life, yeah.

But there is, I think that graduation feeling is a real feeling of like, oh my god, I didn't realize how easy it would be for some, like I was shocked at the ease that some people just fell into like crazy things. Yeah, I think that is actually a big thing that maybe like I don't know if it's talked about enough The feeling of like watching other people get handed things Hmm a while you is in certain like don't have anywhere to live. For example, it's like, okay

That is a tough one and such a valid issue. It's like, okay, that is a tough one. And I- Such a valid issue. It's a real valid issue. They will try and make you think you're great, like you're jealous or whatever. Try and make me think you're the bad guy, yeah. Yeah, no, no. No, no, no, no, no, no.

And I think there's like obviously like an understanding. There's like a, there's a general consensus, there's a general narrative that we all know and have seen time and time again that it's like, yes, some people get handed things and like oh But I think in the day-to-day experience There's not much Validation given to people who are struggling and are almost quite isolated in that struggle

Especially you're not really allowed to talk about you're definitely not allowed to talk about it because I thought you sound like a jealous asshole Yeah, oh which is a tough place to be. What would be so wrong about that? I think it's a really crazy thing that you can't seem bitter about someone getting handed something incredible that you could never get or like would be, well you could get it but it'd be so fucking hard. But yeah, I hate to say it, daddy's little princess just gets sort of shoved into the door, of course they're gonna get it, and then they'll decide, well, maybe not for them,

blah, blah, blah. That of course is valid, that experience, both are, also they would be mad not to do it in so many ways. Oh my god, yeah. I'm not here to say that your privilege should be denied, or like an embarrassing, awful thing. I do think it's like, that is so- Live your life, I'm really happy,

I'm genuinely happy for you. No, genuinely. It's like really good for you. But with your friends, there needs to be a discussion about that. If you want to... I don't think those things can happen in the dark because that does breed like crazy barriers between people. I also think it's the responsibility of the person coming from the place of privilege and I think this is across all things like, this conversation has been around for a long time in terms of like class, race, gender, all of these concepts.

If you're coming from the position of power in a friendship, in a one-on-one dynamic with someone, I think it's your responsibility, yeah. To initiate the conversation and go in open and like warm and loving to your friend versus leaving the person not in the position of power, either trying to have to, feeling like they have to educate you or feeling awkward about their own position or it's a really, really difficult one because putting the onus on the person with the power or with the privilege often means that the

conversation never happens because the person with the power or the privilege doesn't want to initiate those conversations. Yeah, because also it's uncomfortable. It's so uncomfortable to be like, are you, like, is there a thing about this thing? Like that is, I don't know, there were so many moments. There was actually like, as we were leaving you oh should I be saying some of this but hmm there was definitely some things I was shocked by when we started like all graduating and stuff I think there was I wasn't necessarily shocked by people being given amazing opportunities because of

who they know we know that's gonna. And also there are so many ways in which that happens to me and that I would know them and they... My friend worked at Sainsbury's and I got in there in lockdown. This stuff all happens. That might be less desirable. It wasn't actually very desirable for me it turns out. Always who you know. But it is actually who you know. If they are a manager at Sainsbury's. You might get to work nights for two weeks in lockdown before you get fired. You might. Yeah. You might. But, and there are loads of ways that it happens in maybe, I hate to say better ways than that, but yeah, better ways than that as well. But you know that's going to happen. But it is also really, I think the bit that shocked me was that you're not allowed to mention it.

And the denial, it was kind of my problem, we were talking about Nepo babies in a couple of episodes ago. And we're talking, we're just such a random name to get mentioned, but I spoke a bit about a podcast I listened to where Emily Atak was being like... The only thing that my, having Paul McCartney in my family gave me was just an ability to deal with rejection. And it's like, I don't know if that's true, actually. I don't know if that's true. I mean, that's fucking wild. It's like, I think it didn't, it didn't get me these roles. I did all the auditions and blah blah blah. It's like, I don't know. But and also that's not blaming her necessarily. That's a very common point of view from all these NEPO babies. It's so common for them to say things like that, which

shows there is a massive cognitive dissonance for them because they can't seem to admit that what they've got is not because of their merit, which is not necessarily a bad thing, but you just need to admit it. There were so many things where people would get given something, an opportunity that you assume requires a lot of work and like is very prestigious maybe is the word, because they've had lunch with the people that did it the night before. You know? Which is not necessarily bad. That is not inherently a bad thing that you did that But I do think you have to be able to speak to the people that love you and you love and they're in a different situation Your friends that you know, there's a huge thing

I think you have to be honest with yourself and them about that like I think it does put them in a tricky position when you They have to say congratulations blah blah brackets. Didn't you have lunch with the people that chose that the night before? I also don't think, I think and I know you know this, the expectation for these people to be especially forthcoming with the realities of how they have got into certain situations is too high of an expectation and I think in terms of like all of these nepa babies preaching the same they have the same like couple lines that they have yeah they've memorized the same paragraph about like you know I've worked really hard and it I you know whatever blah blah

blah you know I feel like there's a problem with I think it's like an education issue totally I think it's like an education issue. Totally. I think it's like fundamentally an issue with education and the ways that we, I think in the UK as well, it's very, class is very prevalent and so much of it is unspoken. And if I never went to uni, I would have gone through my whole freaking life never even knowing that these people existed.

Yeah, genuinely, I never ever would genuinely, that never would have happened. I thought these were the people of myths and legends. I didn't know that people actually went to private school. I'd never met anyone in my life who had been to a private school. It's wild. It's not myths and legends, it's real. And it's totally a part of life.

They think you're myths and legends. Yeah. They do actually. Yeah, no, they totally do. Even when they're confronted with it, I think they still think, think mmm just a story. and it totally is just a story and something i've been feeling recently not even in a deep way but i had one small interaction which i don't even plan on saying but i do think it's funny. yeah yeah. the salt burn. i think you can say in a vague way. i can say in a vague way for sure. actually i don't think they would even see themselves in the story to be honest. no and they're never even gonna hear it but it doesn't matter. No. It doesn't have to be deep and it just is what it is but you guys know you've been around there are some there's been highs and lows in my life and some of the stories are like crazy or like oh god I can't believe that happened like oh no like some real devastating blows and some violence in moments and some real like dangerous you know waiting at the council to get a house sort of vibe from me. Yeah. Just layered, you know, there's domestic abuse in there, there's some religious abuse, there's got all sorts of exciting little anecdotes going on here.

ACAS powers the world's best podcasts. Here's a show that we recommend. On Set With from HGTV and Max takes you behind the scenes of the most iconic on-screen worlds with the people who made them real. I'm the production designer. Director of photography. Costume designer. Set decorator.

Find out how these spaces that live rent-free in our minds came to be and provide the perfect backdrop for our favorite TV shows like Friends. My eyes! My eyes! True Detective. Time is a flat circle. And more. Listen to OnSet with on Macs or wherever you get your podcasts.

Acast helps creators launch, grow, and monetize their podcasts everywhere. ACAST.com And they really are. I've lived a really thorough life up to this point and I know that it's got some well-rounded stories in there. Some really, really interesting meaty moments. And I had a moment recently with someone who I would call a friend. Who knows like a lot of the ins and outs of the situations that have happened to me. And I had a particular moment where Sefi actually

put the name on it of the Salt burn moment where they kind of do the oh where's Liverpool darling and they kind of they're so obsessed with Barry Keoghan's character as like a poor guy and they... yeah it's like a fun dinner party story for them. yeah his like quite unquote trauma, awful situation, like death, grief, addiction, poverty, all of these things become a great story for a dinner party. And I had a moment where this person who I would call a friend was so enthusiastic, beaming, grinning and said, can you tell me that one bit about that story again? Can you tell me that scary bit again? And I thought, oh my God, I'm in it. I'm in the salt burn bit.

And I'm in the bit that Sefi was speaking Speaking about of being like that trope that classic like yeah, your your life is a dinner party That's a story, but it's because it's a thing that I've experienced so many times So I actually felt really validated when you Said it but it's like your Trauma and like I don't know your life chaos of my childhood and life like is It's there's some really abnormal bits of it and that being used as like a dinner party story to be like Oh, that must have been awful for you is so jarring and like it really creates a thing where it's like, oh my god

You don't understand like you actually like not only you've never experienced this which i wouldn't want anyone to experience those things but you can't empathize like there's an empathy issue here because almost i don't think you realized what that would feel like to live that like i think you actually physically can't do that jump yeah which is really jarring when friendship is involved. Totally. Something that hurt me is thrilling to you. That is difficult to grapple with. Something that really hurts every day is so exciting to you. That hurts. I thought you cared about me. That hurts. It's not nice. And I think as a young woman in this world,

going through the shit that you're going through, it's so important as much as possible to have the way that you feel be validated when the whole world is telling you that you and the way that you feel is not important. Any whisper of that being reinforced in your life is so dangerous, especially when it's coming from someone that you really care about, really value,

really love, trust their opinion, et cetera. So it's really important to validate yourself and also to, I really think in situations where you are being tested, who are you surrounding yourself with and try and just get some like-minded folk, even just like, if going home is good for you, go home, spend the night at home. Like that I think can be like really, it's kind of like I would say get in the shower. That is just like brings you back down to a normal level. Because people can really shake you up and start to make you feel like the way that you feel isn't right or normal. You're a weirdo.

Yeah, you're a freaking weirdo. Which you might be. No you are and so are they and that's everyone. But it's normal to be insecure and weird and all of those things. That is encouraged genuinely. It's the only way. You know, like I put my fucking hand up. But I think when it gets horrible is when it has that sort of gaslighting effect of being like am I the weird one for not wanting to point out the fucking obvious here?

I think as well as going back to comparison and specifically at uni, like I think, God forbid you try and do something creative in this world. God forbid you try and do something meaningful in this world. Obviously God help you. God freaking help ya. Yeah. In this God forsaken land, if you,

yeah are not born into Paul McCartney's family for example, good luck. He didn't do anything other than let her deal with rejection. But yeah, good luck. God say why's everyone keep bringing him up. Trying to do anything that you care about. And I think that was something that we really felt as well, trying to do the podcast after uni.

Was a challenge. Was like maybe a bad idea. No, no, was the best. But also the things that made it difficult were not the actual barriers in our lives, like in our actual circumstances, but were more the things like. Having to justify, having to answer.

All of these people coming back up, like all of these things of why do you get to do that? You should be doing this. Yeah, there were definite... It was more like social relationship-y issues rather than like our actual... We had like, I mean, we had the pandemic there which made it obviously weirdly so much easier for us to do something like this because we weren't having to go and work in a conventional way. But yeah, I don't know. It was, yeah, I don't know. It's a challenge. I think anyone trying to do something that feels like it subverts what you're, like we've been having a lot of conversations recently and it's just the nature of like being in your 20s, that decade, that is a 10 year stretch

for people to go up and down and left and right and you are going to be making a big mess. And I don't think it gets easier in your 30s. No I can't imagine it ever gets easier until you die. That's what I've heard. From what I've seen. It's the word on the street. But I really feel like everyone's doing something, everyone's up to something, everyone's doing

something weird. They are. Everyone's got something specific to them going on and there really is no right way of doing it and I think what I would have needed to hear is someone to be like, yeah, it's not all gonna work out straight away and that's fine. Like I think I kind of thought, oh yeah, like hear the things of, oh your 20s are for like trying things or messing up or you're not supposed

to have it figured out, blah, blah, blah. And I kind of thought, yeah, but I will. I will have it figured out or like things will work for me. And I kind of thought, yeah, by 22 I'll just have it sorted. And I was like, mm. I think I needed someone to come in and be like. 22 is crazy. Literally.

We were so naughty. You're not gonna have it sorted and that's still fine. Like, if you're not the perfect anomaly, that's still fine. I think that's something I need to hear. Or what if there is no sorted? Like, you might feel sorted for a day, for half a day maybe, then by the end of the day feeling very unsorted. Like, there is no finish line. There are just many little sort of finish lines. And so many moments of doubt and so many moments of being like oh what have I done here or like is this realistic for example? So many thoughts. Yeah. Yeah what do you think was your main feeling coming out of uni so like early 20s? What was your main vibe coming out of uni, so like early 20s, what was your main vibe? I think we had a bit of a weird one

because we just started this, literally in the nick of time before we left. Really was in the nick of time. So I think I felt very inspired coming out of uni, which is an amazing thing to feel. I definitely felt the fear because I moved to London pretty soon after. We came out of uni and I pretty much wanted

to leave straight away. pretty soon after. We came out of uni and I pretty much wanted to like leave straight away. So I came back for like a couple months, worked in the old pub that I worked at when I was like 18 sort of thing, like went back to my old job here. And then I was like, no, I'm going, I'm going sort of thing.

And we were doing this and I just felt very like sure of the direction that I wanted I didn't know how the fuck I was gonna make money But I knew that was like okay, so I'd be willing to like do scrappy things to do this 100% I think that's how I felt and I wasn't really looking at the other people because I think I genuinely didn't feel jealous of that sort of Corporate. I didn't really want it. No, I definitely didn't want it I think if you are going for that the people that I know that are like,. I didn't really want it. No, I definitely didn't want it. But I

think if you are going for that, the people that I know that are like... But I felt like I needed it. Totally, but I was almost like, I'll make sacrifices for this. Yeah, so much. Whereas I think people that... I don't know, if you're not interested in having a project or you don't want one or you don't have one and you're going... Or just if you are going to do like a oh I don't fucking know I think it was hard for all my friends that didn't feel like they had a purpose but they were applying for jobs that they didn't really want but there was still like a competitive and comparative element to it all but then going after something they don't even necessarily want is just like the first rung on the ladder. Definitely I think that's the kind of done thing.

No, completely. That was definitely how I felt. It's like, oh, I'm... I mean, I was definitely applying for things I didn't want, that's for sure. Definitely, yeah. And they didn't want me back. It was mutual, probably. And I think that's the... this is the way of life. But also, they're set up. So I was applying for a job at Buzzfeed when I first was in London. I got to like the final final stage, the final boss. It

was between me and one other girl and I didn't get it, which now I obviously in my kind of classic wear look at as such a blessing. Yeah she was a guardian angel that girl. Wow. But it was a real, they string these fucking processes on so much, like it's actually so unfair how these things are made. Like one of my friends has just been rejected from a job that I think it was like a three month in the fucking making. So bad. They make you work for free, they make you take time off of your actual job that you currently have. Totally. They milk your ideas. For months. For months. And then you have to go back to your job that you,

or that you've still been working at, but have completely distanced yourself from, have taken loads of hours off for to go to the doctor, but actually for an interview, it's actually, it's so bad how it's all set up. But it's set up in this way that you, it's an endless carrot in front of you that you're chasing. And I think that breeds the comparison feeling so much

that so then of course when your friend gets a job that you're like a parallel to, you've course filled that resentment and that jealousy and all that is so to be expected. Like you're both chasing these really similar like that feel really like scarce and rare opportunities when they're actually fucking not they just set them up to feel like that.

What would be your advice like to yourself in that situation? Like looking back? In what situation? In the situation of coming out of uni? Yeah or just like in your early 20s what would you say to her? Like what do you think was the main message that you needed to hear? I think I would say like be practical, which I think I was really practical. Go on. Do I think this? Well what do you mean by that?

Well what I mean is, Humour me, tell me, tell me more, tell me more. Know what you need and go for that, rather than, I think there's definitely an idea of like, okay so you come out of uni and you want loads of stuff, you want loads of stuff, want loads of stuff you want? I always want new clothes and oh I kind of want the new GHDs and I wouldn't mind a fucking Nintendo switch and I also want and to be able to go and walk with a coffee that

I've bought from a shop. I had no fucking money. I had no fucking money and Now yeah, I can afford to maybe do nice things. I can go and like Get a coffee. I can go and get a coffee, you know, that's not um something I'm I do still stress about it because I've definitely got like financial anxiety, but like I Can I can do that? But it's like okay There was a point you couldn't do just like a simple thing like that that felt like an extreme luxury So you just sort of like mold to it

Like I think I was and it is a privilege in so many ways, like literally goes out saying to be able to not live in total stress. But I think there are things, our society is so consumerist that you feel like a failure if you're not buying the things that you want. So I think I was having to be really practical of like, okay, so the essential is rent. That is essential. You can work so you can get the money. Like that is a thing that you need to pay.

And then it's almost like okay so you can be scrappy with it. I think there's a neatness that's like I need one job that covers all of this. It's like you can do so many things that cover different bits. Like I was writing people's blurbs for their books online. That was crazy. That was paying a little bit. I was working in a pub, that paid a little bit. That's definitely not a thing anymore. Restaurant, that paid a little bit of it. We got little things from this, that paid a bit of it. You don't need to have like the neatness. I was babysitting and nannying, that paid a bit.

Like you can be practical with it. You don't need the neat narrative of like, I get paid this K a year and that is how much and I can live within those means. It's like you can really, that is an option to scrap it together and not do that thing and it might be really fucking stressful like I was so stressed but think like think creatively I think about it all yeah I think think creatively and I think I also think and we've said this before don't go spending if you want to do like a podcast for example don't buy a really expensive microphone you absolute freaking full like there's just no need don't do that don't do that why are you doing, don't buy a really expensive microphone, you absolute freaking fool. Like there's just no need. Don't do that, don't do that.

Why are you doing that? Don't do that. Because it validates the thing. I think that's why people do it. If you have the best microphone and the best headphones, it makes you feel like a podcaster, not someone that's nannying and writing blurbs and then doing a pod, like that's mental.

Like it doesn't feel very nice at times, but like that is it, that is how you get it. What's your advice for yourself in those moments? Like you've just left uni, we've just started this, or whatever, what's your advice for little wing? I don't know, cause I kind of think she probably was more on it than me in terms of like, yeah, she definitely had something that I don't have right now. I think I had a probably

misplaced belief in myself. I had a lot of delusion at the time, purely running off of yeah, the fumes of the delusion of the podcast like hoping that this could be a thing that was all I had yeah yeah kind of that was that was kind of in a tangible sense all we had weird how far that carried us like that if you think we had a crumb and we ate off that every day literally we were charlie bucket we rationed that chocolate bar all freaking year like yeah I I remember, and I've said this recently, like in terms of like, I know I've said this on the podcast, so sorry, but we were having a conversation with our manager Freya and she was like,

we should try and do X, Y, and Z. And I remember being like, like it's gonna be a challenge, but we can do it sort of thing. And I remember being like, yeah, X, Y, and Z, like that is a challenge. What is that? I don't wanna say. That would be a challenge, but it would be more challenging

to start a podcast from nothing and try and get people to listen to it. I don't know how you would do that. And so I feel like there was something definitely that we had at the beginning that I don't know. I think I also would just be like, I think I would also be like, you should try and do this

because you deserve to try and do this. And like, it's not what's written for you. It's not the obvious thing and you're not in Paul McCartney's family so you can't just get handed something. Yeah, daddy's little princess isn't it? You're not getting handed it. Unfortunately, but I think I would just tell myself,

yeah, definitely try and do it because you deserve to try and do it. And that's it. I would keep Shtim because I feel like she let her do it. If anything I'd be like, what about me? Anything back to say to me? But she really did know, we always talk about this and I do think it's the thing that you hear old musicians

talking about this sort of speck of self belief they had at the beginning. And it's why people raise their children by saying, you can do anything blah blah, blah, blah, because they want their kids to have this feeling of anything is possible, you can be anything you want to be. And why the fuck did we feel like we could? Like we just rode away from it, but we truly did.

Like I don't think I've ever had more belief, but I've never had more fear in anything in my life. Like obviously everything fundamentally is telling you I've ever had more belief but I've never had more fear in anything in my life like Obviously everything fundamentally is telling you That you're a dad Like this is such a bad idea and like yeah, you're not gonna be able to get away with it But yeah, I think it's what you said if we're just having enough fun that we didn't care so much fun and I've never seen My life flash before my eyes in a way like that before. I think from the minute we started doing it,

we saw the potential of it and we're just like, I'm not giving up for anything, ever. I think we wanted it so badly. We really believed in it. Yeah, and I still do. It's crazy that it's like, this has been, how many years have we been doing this? Five.

That's a long fucking time. It's a long time. That is crazy. And I do think the thing that's been carrying it this whole time, it's never felt like, I was gonna say, it's never felt like habit that like continues it, which obviously it is, that we get in the habit of before you know it, you've done fucking 300 million episodes, whatever we've done. But it has always felt like a matter of urgency.

It's always felt like a priority of urgency it's always felt like a priority like even when we had no followers like literally no one I would still sort of proclaim to my house I'm going up to record now it's like I'm so surprised this wasn't like a dirty little secret in our rooms like just whispering it's always been I'm recording now like quiet she's recording why do I always feel like an authority like I had any authority to say that it's funny now though even being like whenever I say I'm recording I'm editing it's like it's recording recording yeah we don't know if that's what is that people call it it's what we

call it oh I'm he's record she's they're filming now or they're in studio now weird they're on air I guess're in the studio now. It's weird. They're on air. I guess it is recording you're recording a podcast. Yeah you're recording but it's just funny that it's like it really became the vernacular like it really just became the language. Yeah and everyone knows what that means. Yeah. But like I'm so surprised we had the balls to be like. But I think that's the thing is you just you do it and you do it and you do it until then the world says it back to you. is you just you do it and you do it and you do it until then the world says it back to you. Oh guys yeah it's hard out here. Thank you everyone for being here fucking hell. Yeah and we're here for you we want to support it's some you know

mutual endeavors happening left and right whatever you guys are up to we want to be there for. Yeah big oh my god big time. We met these girls the other day they were actually in our BBC article that was about not just about us but about the stage that we spoke at sorry to everyone that we missed at leads oh my god we spoke about this at the stage blew away it's crazy we were supposed to be at reading and leads but the stage at leads blew away in the wind and if you've ever heard about dobbie at the barrier i think that might be. That's crazy Like this all the stage was so small that it literally blew away like a tissue like what the fuck wild And but there was a BBC article about the stage and we're in it. You can kind of see us About our whole stage and there are these stunning girls getting so stunning sort of interviewed and

They're talking about how they actually do nicely say that they were inspired and they have a podcast. I kind of read that, didn't think much of it, just sort of thought lovely. I forgot all about reading, we're moving on with our lives. Me, Wing and Naina had just been to a House of Sunny event a few, like literally a week later. These girls came running up to us in the street and they were like, we were the girls in the article and it's like, oh fuck yes you are. And they gave us these lovely stickers of their podcast that they do and I mean I loved those moments.

Same, same. More than anything, that was what we saw. We could see the higher fire. That was the vision. Everywhere. This was the thing that we were aiming for. Exactly. And we did it.

Yeah, congrats. Congrats to you. Congratulations on the podcast. Congratulations on the podcast congratulations on the podcast okay if you don't hear from me if you don't hear from me what am i getting ditched i think i've been wearing the match too much ah what is it if you don't hear from us buy our merch guys because that's what it says just a singular thing if you don't hear from us, assume the worst. God, sorry about that. Who are you?

ACAS powers the world's best podcasts. Here's a show that we recommend. On set with from HGTV and Max takes you behind the scenes of the most iconic on-screen worlds with the people who made them real. I'm the production designer. Director of photography. Costume designer. Set decorator. Find out how these spaces that live rent-free

in our minds came to be and provide the perfect backdrop for our favorite TV shows like Friends. My eyes, my eyes! True Detective. Time is a flat circle. And more. Listen to On Set With on Macs

or wherever you get your podcasts. Acast helps creators launch, grow, and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast.com.