Goes Without Saying - the IT GIRL: the people's princess paradox

Episode Date: July 5, 2024

THE SUMMER BONANZA BEGINS. podmothers sephy & wing enter the chat: spiralling on beauty standards, misogyny, social capital, currency, and exchanges of power. ✷see more ✷ www.youtube.com/@sephyandwing ✷ www.instagram.com/sephyandwing ✷ www.tiktok.com/@sephyandwingshop ✷ www.sephyandwing.co.uk Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Goes without saying our YouTube has dropped finally we have been filming non-stop, hijinks ensued and now the Sephian Wing cinematic universe is alive and ready for you to come and enjoy. There'll be videos all through July and hopefully ongoing as well but come and just see what's going on. Till the end of time. Yeah. Oh wait where can they find it? Tap in Sephian Wing guys you know how to use YouTube. Yeah and it's also on our instagram sephianwing. it's also linked below if you need if you need some help. oh my goodness happy summer. welcome back. welcome back hot to trot. oh i'm loving summer so far. meet it, I actually, I really am.

So maybe we'll just cut in. This is pre-recorded on the 1st of July, which is obviously the day that the beganza begins. Yeah. I feel like I'm simultaneously, I've never had more adrenaline. I'm also, I feel like I'm on a massive calm down of like the YouTube. Yeah, so our first video just went out. Yeah. Four hours ago.

And thank you so much to everyone being really nice about it. I just feel really like, meh, everyone being really nice about it. I just feel really like me It's really nice. Yeah. Yeah, it's really nice to see I don't know see people actually watching It's and the comments were just really like oh my god Like we have a video and there's like comments underneath because obviously with the podcast we of course we have DMS and stuff But we never get like direct comments, you know, you guys can't comment on this unless you're on the Spotify Yeah, little box box but even that I feel like people don't even know about it's so nice to just have a load of

comments also like especially like with the YouTube specifically that had like a live chat premiere thing so as the YouTube was as the video was like playing live like on its release like everyone was writing in the little chat and it was just really cute really really nice so yeah I'm kind of on the high from that but I also feel I was up all night in the YouTube world so I just I feel like oh god there's a lot going on I'm currently editing the video that's coming out in a couple of days which you are going to freak I think you might have already seen that by the time. Yeah oh my god that's the name of the video. So you will have already seen that. Yeah unless we

send it to her and she doesn't like it and then it all gets cut you will be freaking. I want to take the moment to say thank you Wing for all your hard work. Thank you so much. Absolutely wow wow we wow at some of these editing. Thank you so much. Absolutely wow wow we wow at some of these videos that I've seen. Thank you so much. Especially the one today. I feel like some people have even been really commenting on the editing which I think is really nice. It is really nice. Also I feel like it feels very us and I think we were really trying to come in with like... we've always wanted to be intentional about what we do which means that sometimes like it takes us some time or

some conversation it takes us getting our heads around things sometimes. Also especially with like a visual thing it's really hard to... we always do a thing whenever you're doing a new logo it's like what the hell are the vibes like you always ask for like what specific words and there's a, should we talk about the specific phrase that we're using with the YouTube video? That would be. Yeah, with the loving eye.

Yeah, the loving eye, like we're always like, okay, so we want things to feel kind of like loving and nice. Like we don't want it to be. Hateful. Like a specific angle that we want the videos to have. I want it to be this was based on I know we said this before but the matcha diaries and childhood literally they're like childhood footage of them as a gorgeous kid but just the idea that like the videos everything we do I want it to feel like it was made by someone who really loves us. Which is me. We made it and nobody loves us more than we do. I think it's just really nice

for us to, I want it to feel safe for us because then I think naturally it will make everyone feel more safe and comfortable and happy. To watch. Yeah. I hope it feels enjoyable, cosy, all of the stuff. Pure. And also like, if you don't like it then just stay over here, audio land. Totally. Hi, you're with us now. But if you like us enough to want to see us, we're also there. I mean I dread the thought that the visual is so harrowing, like we're that kind of ghastly that you actually can't stomach a YouTube video from us. yeah just really we're grateful for you guys all the time but especially when we do things like this it's just

it's always like a whenever we drop something new or like we do something it just feels really nice like when we get that immediate reaction it's just that's not old to us at all like that's really really special to us every single time so thank you thank you so much. And on that note. Let the bonanza continue. Let the bonanza begin. Yes.

So we've delved through our topics. Yeah. And we've come to. And there was one that was jumping at you today. Yeah, I don't know why this one was jumping at me. I just kind of, I don't know. I'm just feeling a little bit like, we'll see what happens, you know?

The it girl paradox we're going with. Take us away, go on. Well, just the notion that I find, or I feel like I see often, when you are on the precipice of never being, never have been so loved before you are also incredibly close to slipping into having never been so hated it's almost they'll love you for a month and then it's like I'm overexposed to

you like you're everywhere totally it's more more more until it's like enough that's enough from you done too much now the most And I just think it's an interesting thing and I find like almost the gendered aspect of it Like just in the way that it girl the whole concept of that is so entrenched in ideas of like beauty standards and like Yeah, a woman being kind of desirable and aspirational but still attainable and still authentic and kind of really balancing, like such a balancing act of winning over society

and winning over women but not being intimidating or too much or any of that sort of stuff. And kind of, we rotate men short in the public eye, like White Boy of the Month, Jacob will already had his moment, et cetera. they come and they go they come and they go and i'm sure they find it difficult and i'm sure there are challenges to that but i just think obviously the public eye is so ruthless to women and young women and also just to just throw a last little kind of cherry on top of this absolute, honestly, Eton mess of an intro that I'm giving. I saw, I think it was Emma Roberts talk about the Nepo baby

discourse, and she was saying, I just don't see Nepo baby men being asked about being Nepo babies enough. And I feel like that started to be a little bit more of a conversation of just the awareness around like, we love to talk about how women got to where they are and a lot of the time, especially when it comes to women in the public eye, it is because kind of Bob's your uncle, sort of I. Yeah. But women are treated differently, obviously,

in the media and just in the world so I just think it would be a fun convoy. totally I'm really up for this I think okay yeah so interesting I find the whole it girl concept really interesting but I thought I hadn't seen Emma Roberts talking about that. it was very recent. so I think that's really interesting because almost it has the whiffs of like who did you sleep with to get to the top? Like, who did she fuck? Like it has the same stuff.

And I do think it's... It's Lana fucked my way up to the top. Yeah, and it's... This is my show. It's infuriating. Fugged my way up. Banger. I don't know that, what is that?

Fugged my way up to the top. I don't know that. It's classic Lana, it's like know that. it's classic lana it's like old lana. it's not that old but she's been around you know. but i think that also might have been in response so she has this i might literally be talking so out of turn here so forgive me guys it won't be the first time. hope you haven't actually been heeding my words. i'm pretty sure lana del re Rey released that song Fuck My Way Up to the Top based on this might be wrong but something that had been said about

her in the press potentially from Lorde. Oh no. I know so it became a bit of a mess. I know. We need a remix to sort it out. Girl it's so confusing. Honestly. But yeah. That's really interesting, wow. Okay so yeah, any leading thoughts? Oh actually can I lead us in? Sorry I've been out there non-stop. Yeah go on. I don't know what your thoughts are but I feel like it's an important honourable mention that you recently, I think maybe your last thing that you put on your newsletter, your sub stack, was a short story. And kind of about this topic. Yeah. Yeah. I kind of only realised that whilst we started talking about it, I was like,

oh my God, this was the whole theme. It was kind of inspired by, oh, just such an interesting interview. It was like a Met Gala interview between Emma Chamberlain and Alexa Chung. You might have seen this, but also I feel like it didn't get enough traction. Like it was one of the most bizarre dynamics I've ever seen because Alexa Chung was obviously like the established it girl of a decade.

And now I would- With the it book to match. It, it. She claimed it. Yeah, she came and she conquered. She did massively claim it. Yeah. And I would say Emma Chamberlain, I mean, it's a fair guess to say she would be one of the current It Girls. Totally.

And it was such a strange dynamic. There was like so much resentment in it and like it was just bizarre to watch so I wrote a little short story but it was kind of more way more fictional than that. Like it made up two girls and stuff and it was I just thought it was such an interesting thing to be like, there was a comment underneath the video that was talking about like, looks like Alexa can't hand over the it girl baton. And I thought, oh ouch, ouch, ouch, ouch.

There's so much weight in that. And also this idea that Alexa should be able to hand over this baton. Like why, of course she can't because she's been raised in a time where women, it's so competitive. Like why of course she can't because she's been raised in a time where women... it's so competitive. Like I just thought it was so interesting. Totally and also like well you're over the age of 35 now so hand over that baton please lady. It's just crazy. You're old and haggard now and your fashion line has closed down and you

haven't been invited to this Met Gala and don't show your bitterness but also... Yeah definitely don't show your bitterness. She objectively definitely don't show you objectively was in the wrong like it's just a really weird nuanced dynamic yeah yeah totally it's really difficult sometimes i think because i feel like a lot of us then find ourselves in this kind of uncomfortable space where it becomes hard to engage in like thoughtful criticism or just like a genuine, frank conversation about women and women in the public eye. When there's so much misogyny hurled at women, it feels them really uncomfortable and sometimes unhelpful, genuinely, to contribute to negative conversations about women, especially when as women we know that so much of what is expected of a woman is to be honest just to be perfect. It's like, yeah, don't be bitter, be kind, but don't be too overbearing. You

know, be sweet, but stand up for yourself, but don't be aggressive and don't be a bitch, but don't get walked all over and you know, it's America for Errors. Whilst doing all of that, look this very specific specific way and if you even do one thing outside of it too fat too thin too fillered no too natural block like all of the shit whatever you do is wrong and even you look wrong and you act wrong. Look totally perfect don't step out of line but don't be too perfect that we get intimidated or annoyed by you or we think you're too malgazy or we think you or annoyed by you or we think you're too malgazy or we think you know you just you're not trying you're not realistic you're not authentic you know blah blah blah

etc etc could go on um Intriguing. It's not easy. It's not easy. It's confusing sometimes to be a girl. It's not it is so confusing so so confusing girl to be a girl. Charlie just said it. She really did. And Lorde said it so right. They both did. And the whole point is they worked it out on the remix. They worked it out on the remix. And everybody does. I love the remix. Same. Okay. I like this. I don't hate. Who would you say is your current it girl? Because I feel like now that because everyone is literally a celebrity now, like everyone is fucking famous. There are so many people to pick with pick from. It's like I would say like as much as you want to say like Emma

Chamberlain, Defo up there. Yeah. It's like almost like Zendaya. Is that not the it girl at the moment? Like there are so many. But who would you say is your it girl at the moment? I feel like I'm to be Taylor surely. Well I feel like I'm gonna be really boring and be like I feel quite uninspired generally. Like I feel like I'm not... oh you know who's closest to my it girl these days? I think I know who you're gonna say. You do don't you? Sabs. Sabby girl! My teenage witch, Sabrina Carpenter, queen. Yeah.

Sabrina Carpenter and Doja Cat for me are like a perfect little, yeah, Sabrina and Doja Cat are my two that I feel most like, and I also feel like, do you were like just pre-New Rules, like Dua Lipa, just pre-like kind of 2016 Dua Lipa, just pre-2016, hotter than hell vibes, I was really moved of like, you're bringing something that I'm not seeing every day, and I am here for it,

and I will gobble it up. Like, I'm excited by you, and I'm excited to see what you do. Like, I love the visual that you're bringing, and I feel really like I believe you. I feel like that's a really important thing for me is I wanna feel like I believe where you're coming from. Totally. I think it's important that it's like

you're saying something. That's why I feel like Dua doesn't speak to me. I was actually talking to my sister about this earlier. Dua, I don't think speaks to me because it just feels so, what are you saying to me? Commercial. Yeah, it's like i'm not being told anything almost but like people love her but so i'm clearly missing something but

with her i just never feel connected to it in any way. yeah yeah i feel like she... oh god i mean if we're ground shifting she is groundbreaking in terms of like future nostalgia 2020. And even like them pre that like new the new rules, I think was absolutely everything. Yeah, I feel like she creates something new. I feel like she's created a whole genre that she's sitting very comfortably in at the top. Big words. Although, well, yeah, but she's definitely she's had some criticism with them her latest album but I do love the cover art of it sorry just random tangent I don't know if you've seen it. No no. But it's called Radical Optimism her album and it's her like in the ocean with just a shark fin like kind of

in the horizon. Well you bloody would love that. And I just love it. Shark will love a girl. Yeah I just feel like yes dive on in, the water's fine. It's just a fun little thing. Wendy's Small Frosty is the ultimate summer refreshment and not because it's cool and creamy and made with fresh Canadian dairy it's also refreshingly cheap just 99 cents until July 14th. It's a treat for you and your wallet. But yeah, I feel like it's tough because I love Emma. And before we, like Emma Chamberlain,

before we started speaking about this, I was saying like, maybe we could talk about the critiques of like, Emma just should have gone to uni, like, duh, duh, duh, duh. I just, what I find really frustrating is like, people just don't know what they want, and we just love to yap, we love to talk shit, and we love to critique, and we love to sit at home doing nothing.

And sitting on the internet hating on all the pretty girls, like that kind of is it. I feel like the Emma one really stands out, like stands out, like that was such a mild thing, but it was almost like a week, if you missed this I feel like, I get it, like it only went on for about a week it seemed, like it was just Emma Chamberlain doing her thing, internet's pretty happy with her generally. There was about a week period where suddenly everyone was like just like being like she should have gone to uni like her conversations oh wait yeah come in. I was being offered a scone. oh nice. homemade scone. yeah quite interesting. Charles is just gonna make them.

thought that was gonna be your tea delivery from Lizzie but no it's not. Lizzie did not. did you see me when we're talking about something and I did a hand up to the door. oh no. to be like do not enter. Oh damn. Yes. You got it was a new day. No, she's gone. I think she was saying Do you want to go swimming because I can hear them leaving? Oh No, I'm gonna have a scone instead Scones all of a sudden, but I would call them scones. So it's just I call them scones. Yeah a bit of a family dispute It's a worldwide well nature. Yeah, it's just weird to have it within one. it's a world wide, well, nationwide dispute. it's just weird to have it within one family. it's like, we actually all say the same thing.

intriguing. what do you think creates an it girl? oh okay that's really interesting. i think now so much of it's the internet. like it, but it obviously has existed pre-internet, like it's an old, old fucking thing. To Claraboe. To Claraboe, yeah, literally in a film called It. That was when it was fucking invented. Perfect song. I assume.

So yeah, it obviously existed for a long time this term, but I do think it is, is someone having a cultural moment? Like a film coming out or like a specific, I mean, I feel like for example, Challengers, Zendaya was having a moment on that press tour and like with Timmy was Defo having like an it boy moment with like June, Wonka, like all of, like when someone's having like a specific moment,

Elvis fucking Austin Butler, that was it boy vibes. Like when you're having, like for example, I don't know how you say her name, Nicola Coughlin or whatever, Nicola Thingy from Bridgerton and Darry Girls, this girl, she's it girl of the moment I would say. She is it girl actually, you're so right. You're so right and kind of- All of the Bridgerton girls have really had their moment. Yeah, yeah they really have. And I think it's just like someone that we sort of decide is, you know, that's the person

right now. But I do think there's a huge difference between somebody having their moment and like, for example, the longevity of someone like Alexa Chung, that's like, that is established. She is like in the history book of kind of Game of Thrones, the book of kings sort of thing, the history of all the kings. It's like, I don't know if Nicola is gonna make it. She's on the tapestries. Yeah, yeah.

I don't know if Nicola has established herself as that. Yeah, but I feel like we're very safe to say that Alexa Chung is it, it's page one, we've got Clara Bo. Then we've got, I don't know, everyone else. We've got, like, Bjork, we've got everywhere. All of these people that have like cemented themselves as like, you are a woman that we will always remember. Kate Bush, Steve Nicks, all these people Marilyn Monroe and the Amy Winehouse I could go on but it's like okay so I don't know if just having a season of Bridgerton

is enough but I do think someone like Emma I do think yeah, you have defined the look of the internet for quite a while now and like you really have Been at the forefront of it Yeah, I think I think she's cemented herself within that book. It feels like as well. There's a part of it That's like you have to be this is a really I want to find another word for trailblazer But you have to be bringing something fresh you have like for like for example, Emma, it's like, yeah, you're different and you are operating as a lone wolf until people start copying you and emulating you. And I feel like with Emma, with the uni conversation of Emma just should have gone to uni,

she's got nothing to say on her podcast. So off the air. Then she wouldn't be longing you, bloody hell. And I feel like that conversation kind of, did that classic thing where it kind of cannibalized itself of like the conversation around that became bigger than the few individuals on TikTok who were actually saying that. And I also was having this conversation recently, kind of going back to Dua Lipa who recently

just headlined Glastonbury. I was having this conversation with someone we were saying I haven't seen much about Glastonbury this year. It's obviously like a huge cultural moment in terms of like music and just UK and culture everything blah blah blah and I feel like algorithms so my kind of point when I was having this conversation was like I'm wondering more often, sometimes I'll be like, oh, I haven't seen much about blah, blah, blah. And then I think-

That's one I never see anything of. Yeah, for example, Love Island. And then I think my algorithms and my for you pages are so specific to me that if I pass through one or two things about Glastonbury or one or two things about Love Island too quick, I won't be fed anything about them again. And I wonder how much of my mind is like,

not able to differentiate yet, how quickly the algorithms have changed in the sense that I'm still used to a world where I just naturally would have seen so much about Glastonbury or I naturally would have seen so much about Love Island. And that's not to say that those conversations aren't happening anymore.

They're just not necessarily happening with me. And I feel like the internet makes us think in the way that then we get so, not me personally, but the world gets so sick of, for example, these girls so quickly. It's funny to me that these people can become so overexposed so quickly to people, but it's also very telling that, like,

that is the content that you've been consuming, and obviously you are gonna think Charlie XCX is overexposed if you've just been spending the whole month looking into brat and you're in your brat summer. I don't think that. For example. Or like, you know, do you know what I mean?

Like, yeah, you're gonna think, you're gonna think you've seen these people too much when you've been consuming the same echo chambers and I just feel like the algorithm is warping our sense of like what the consensus is totally in our communities nationally globally generally across the world totally also we're in such a specific point of the internet it's's like, I definitely have friends that will not have a fucking clue who Emma Chamberlain is. That is not-

Oh my god, totally. To me it's like, okay, so she's leader of the girls on the internet right now. And it's like, wait, but she's really someone that, yeah, I've speak to a lot of people and they'd be like, fucking who? Yeah. Like, it's so, you're so right with that, like the echo chambers, because I actually have seen quite a lot of Glastonbury. Have you? That's something that I feel like I'm seeing quite a lot of it. I think it's because I know

people that are there and stuff, but yeah, it's really something that is, I feel like I'm really aware of, I've seen a lot, yeah, I've seen quite a lot of the behind-the-scenes stuff of it. Yeah, I've seen... Well, that's the thing is I have seen things about it, but then I wonder if I expect to see more about it just in the sense that all of this information and all these tweets, etc. are so accessible to me that I assume if this massive thing is happening I will have seen it all so then when I haven't I'm like oh that's been quiet. It's just a really intriguing gap. It's kind of me being like I haven't really seen that much of like the era at all.

Like obviously I have seen a lot. Yeah. I've seen a lot. You can't go on the internet without seeing it. But like yeah it's coming up to the point where we're going and I'm like fuck what are people wearing? Whereas I feel like if you like Taylor Swift and you're really into this you would know all of the outfits that have been done you would know all of the options that are sort of every outfit to do something

different is quite like you've got no hope whereas i'm a bit like shit like what the fuck are people wearing like i really didn't know it was like a sequin vibe. Like I really didn't know. Should we do like a planning video? Yes, yeah. Maybe. I have no idea. I do not know what the fuck to do. And also I wanted to say, oh fuck, why do I keep forgetting my points? It's so annoying.

I'm sorry. We also were talking about the other day, I don't remember this conversation, I think it was at the train station, we were talking about, that time that I was editing and you were watching Keeping Up With The Kardashians and I kept having to take my headphones out

and look at what you were laughing at and stuff. So I was having a whale of a time watching this episode of the Kardashians famously as they are. And there was a bit where Kim was late to Victoria Beckham fashion show And there's a moment where she her and Chris sit down and Anna Wintour is kind of like, you know quite um, Not cold. Yeah, like kind of dismissive. Yeah. Yeah, and she's angry. She's literally angry at her it's a huge conversation on social media after and blah blah blah. And we were talking about how nuts it is, just the concept of like keeping Anna Wintour

waiting in her own sphere that is her space. She dominates that space totally. She's the ruler of the roost. And yet, my argument and my kind of, what I was saying was like, well yeah, she's the ruler of the roost and yet, she still can be kept waiting by Kim Kardashian because we will wait for Kim Kardashian. And so what does that say about power and like, social capital and just the currency

that the Kardashians hold. It's so, so fascinating that it's like, yeah, you can be Anna Wintel, but we will also wait for Kim Kardashian, yeah. Absolutely fascinating. And it's more nuanced than we shouldn't have had to wait or Anna is the queen or Kim is the queen or whatever. It's so layered.

It's just different types of power as well. Like it almost feels like a bit of a battle between like institutional like traditional like um media power of Anna Wintour like as vogue as like an institution and like the respect of that and also like the um the history of that. Yeah just like this it's kind of that it's just is a horrible thing of then fighting against this new media which is like the branding of like individuals and all this stuff and like those two kind of that it's just is a horrible thing of them fighting against this new media which is like the branding of like individuals and all of this stuff and like those two kind of playing out of like you can be literally head of vogue, a queen of vogue and fashion you've done all of this stuff but still this new media form is winning like you will have to wait for it and it's not like the Kim doesn't need vogue as well but it's just so interesting. Totally it's a weird little

symbiotic relationship they've got going on because they do kind of need each other and the Kardashians have obviously been able to dominate literally the world so much by breaking into traditional media and breaking Anna Wintour basically, but also Vogue needs the Kardashians in the way that Vogue needs Emma to do those viral interviews at the Met every year.

And it's interesting to think about Emma when she is such a, in a real sense, a really niche internet, almost specialized subject, internet star, superstar, but also super mainstream. She's in the fashion space, she has like a mainstream coffee brand, she is like a real functional celebrity in a way that lots of other celebrities are not and in the way that for example Alexa Chung is not getting invited to the Met anymore. Just the currencies and the way that they move and change throughout time and trends and conversation is so intriguing

It's absolutely fascinating. Oh my god. You've got a kombucha. Oh so fascinating though. I didn't take that in earlier That's the raspberry one right? Yeah raspberry and elderflower. Yum Yeah, I'd prefer the peach one, but I don't know if I've tried that. I think it's like white peach or something Oh my god. I literally love the sound of that yeah it's like peach whatever white peach white whoa like does such a thing exist okay then um okay okay nice that was a fun little that was a fun little combo I mean I want to talk more about that but I feel like maybe that's enough for today if you enjoy this combo tell us we'll talk more about it, but I feel like maybe that's enough for today. If you enjoy this combo, tell us. We'll talk more about it.

Definitely, definitely. And let us know your thoughts also. Yeah, yeah. I'd love to know who's your current It Girl. Like it's just so, it just moves so fast. I always think, like, for example, I completely overlook the Kardashians because I do not aspire to be like them and I don't find any inspiration in them. I would never, they wouldn't come to my mind at the phrase of the term it girl but of course kim is- has been the it girl for fucking years. we're talking about like defining trends. i mean just because they're trends i don't like. why am i overlooking

it? of course she's the it girl. she's definitely in the fucking book. yeah. there is also like a huge conversation to be had about like race and the way that that plays into this concept and the ideas of like racial beauty standards that have been adopted and also And then also neglect. Yeah, kind of just like cast off the second They don't want them right and that goes across like so many people but also yeah. Yeah Okay, cool No, it's not summer summer summer summer summer summer Well, what can we do? I don't like that summer summer summer. Okay. What can we do? What can we do?

There's nothing no one says anything in summer. It's not happy holidays So what people don't say I knew there's literally no phrases to do with summer no It's a bit dizzy rascal get your passport it's a little bit still your sunshine na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na Summer, summer, summer, summer, summer, summer, summer, summer.