Goes Without Saying - The Politics of "Chic"

Episode Date: October 12, 2026

EP008 - Are we policing one another into sameness?Spiralling on: the collapse of language and the class privilege of 'chic', micro trends, and the infiltration of digital discourses into our real world. @makesyouspiralWatch on ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Follow on ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

My Rikely goalie says he plays for the love of the game. You gave up six goals last week, Steve? Maybe play to win, huh? Like with Bet365. I get paid the second my team goes out big with early payout and can cash out at any time before the game ends. Steve, Bet365, the home of winning early. Must be 19 and older.

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Six months later, it's on a t-shirt in Zara. The girlification of language on TikTok, micro trends and how these sorts of buzzwords, take over your feed and become like a phenomenon that are encouraging you to buy something, encouraging you to be something. And then there's a huge sort of backlash to that conversation that cannibalizes it all together and then just in time, ready to sell you something else. People are obviously using this language on the internet to market whatever it is that they are creating with language that the algorithm will recognize and reward. That is not a crime. by any means. But it does mean that by consequence, when we're all using the same buzzwords

and we're all using the same markers to denote certain objects or experiences in our lives, we are manipulating language in a way that we are not quite yet used to at a rate that we are not quite yet used to. And we are at risk of flattening and censoring ourselves and our feeds into a very particular view of what we should say or look like, and it doesn't allow for diverse language or inherently diverse people, diverse ideas. We're back. We're back for another one. What a blessing it is. Another day. God, the days pass and pass and past until I'm here again. It's like I never left. Wow. First thing off the top, the most beautiful, if you are the most beautiful, I can't, right, okay, let me get my story straight.

Let me get my story straight here. I am walking down the street, right? Set the scene. Walking down the street, minding my own business. Little did I know, most beautiful girl in the world was going to appear right in front of my eyes. Um, there's a hair on me. There's actually loads of hairs on me because you didn't ask, but my arm's really hairy. Anyway, walking down the street, most beautiful girl I've ever seen in my life says, hi, I love the podcast. I think your name was Liv. Wow. I think of you every day and night now, Liv.

I hope that's your name. If it isn't your name, if you're, if you are listening and you're in Brighton, you're just the most beautiful girl with blonde hair. It's you. It's you, it's you I was talking about in the lanes the other day. Wow. Beauty Queen. Thank you so much.

And I feel like I was in a fluster, as you would probably imagine me. To be, maybe. So maybe I lived up to her expectations. But I was here there and everywhere. So I just want to say thanks so much. I've told everyone about you. I've been telling everyone actually that we met. Thank you so much.

It really set my heart aflame. Yeah. If you see me again, please stop me again. God, I'm like, melting like mad. I got an air. This is really embarrassing. Basically, my hair is a bit of an issue for me. Sometimes I just chop it all off.

And I know that that's bizarre to people. But I do just sometimes go into the kitchen and I pull out like a bin bag. And I just like hack the ends of my hair off and put it in the bin bag. and then like carry on with my day. So, and also like, it's not a hair episode, but basically, I don't want to say this. I don't want to say this. I feel a bit ashamed because, not ashamed, that's way too deep,

but I feel a little bit embarrassed per se. It bugs me because I can never get the texture quite right. Like, it is, it's not like lovely straight hair. Wow. I don't know if any of this is going to go in, but I've been talking for seven minutes. Maybe 30 seconds of that was me trying to get a thumb. How does the thumbnail look? I wasn't loving it. So, fingers crossed it, came out, okay, you tell me.

I also, sorry, speaking of autumn. Which we weren't. Who was speaking of autumn? What? Speaking of what? Voices in my head. Speaking of autumn, this is fascinating. You'll love this. It's done something different with my nails. I cut them real short and did like a dark sort of red because like it's October and everyone told me to. Anyway, I feel a bit out of sorts with my hair a lot of the time. Yeah, so I have my dad's like sort of Middle Eastern really, really coarse. It's essentially like pubic hair on my head. And I would even go as far as to say a sort of old Middle Eastern's man's pubic hair on my head. Welcome to the podcast.

So I always have my hair up, okay? I always have my hair up. And you can imagine why, okay? Because it's so coarse and just like, pubic hair on my head. Always put it up, always put it up. I got an air wrap for my birthday. and now I feel like an Afghan hound, I feel a little bit like I'm coming here today with my hair down.

And it's a bit like, okay, girl, like put the air up away. So if you see me sort of moving my hair around, it's baby's first time wearing a hat, baby's first air up. I'm not going to touch it, but I am going to address elephant in the room. I got an air up for my birthday. It really is, it feels like such a sort of cultural joke of like, girl turns up day after her birthday with like a piece. everywhere. Okay, I'm going to start by saying this is purely musings. This is, as I say,

an anthropological presentation of findings from my life. Ancdotes, discoveries, passing thoughts, we're spiraling together, some may say. We're just here to just follow this spiral, see where we end up, probably nowhere, probably back where we started. But what's wrong with that? I was speaking in the last episode about like feeling like I am or am not doing topics justice. And these things go without saying, I feel. This is not like a comprehensive, perfectly considered take on a topic. I am just spiraling with you. I am simply curating weird and thoughtful musings for weird and thoughtful girls.

Okay? So if you see yourself in that. Our fantasy commission says for him it's all about the friendships. Cute, Kevin. but I disagree. Like with Bet365. I get paid the second my team goes up big with early payout and can cash out at any time

before the game ends. No hard feelings, Kevin. Just faster payouts from Bet365. The home of winning early. Must be 19 and older. Ontario only. Please play responsibly. If you were someone you know is concerns about gambling,

visit connectsontario.ca. Or call 1866 5 through 1,2600. Terms and conditions apply. New from Nespresso. Blend wellness into your coffee routine with a coffee plus range. confused with functional benefits. Choose the coffee you love with added B vitamins,

like coffee plus B12 to help support immune function, and coffee plus B6 to keep your day moving. Or go with the flow and choose ginseng delight. Our new double espresso with ginseng extract. Whatever lies ahead, don't change your morning. Let your morning change you. Discover coffee plus on espresso.com. When you're a mid-sized business,

you need every competitive advantage you can get. Like an AI solution that works for you, not against you. SAP Grow is built with AI embedded at its core, working across every system. And it's ready to go from day one so you can hit the ground running. Bring it with SAP Grow, AI Cloud ERP for any size business. Amazon has everything you need to deliver joy to everyone on your list. Like your Uncle Ricky, who made every single one of your wedding photos unforgettable. Because his fly was open.

So get him a three-pack of new underpants he'll really love. And get a head start on holiday shopping with low prices on gifts everyone wants, like the latest toys and housewares. And the gifts they need, like underpants. We've got you covered, Ricky. Literally. Where some see heroes and others see egos. Bloomberg sees the era of billionaire athletes.

While others follow the noise, we follow the money. Learn more at Bloomberg.com. Please stay. I'm somewhat of a professional that's viraling. It's been said. Follow on Spotify. There's more like this. Every Monday,

until I get myself really, really overwhelmed and depressed, I'll be here every Monday, so you should follow. Follow on Spotify. Join, watch the vids. I'm just here in service of you. Dad, I didn't ask how you are. Bloody rude.

Right, so we're straight in. Weird, thoughtful musings. No expectation. We're just spiraling together with love and curiosity and no hatred and no judgment. This is a judgment-free zone. And I mean that. And like, I'm so serious about that. Actually, sorry, I will just say, people keep saying a lot of the messages I'm getting at the moment

saying like, like, huh, you're calling me out or whatever. And then I saw another one. It was like, oh, you just keep calling me out. And I thought, God, I am the calling. I don't want to be the calling you out podcast, but it seems like I have the calling you out podcast. but I just need you to know that it's, you've got it twisted. I'm actually not calling you out. It's actually, to be nothing to do with you.

This is all about me. I'm calling myself out and you just happen to also need to be called out every once in a while and you're just, you're here for the journey. I just want you to know that if you are ever feeling called out, you know. It's just with love and a wink and a nod and a little, so much love. All right. So I've been thinking about this for a while. I've been talking about it for a while as well.

in my real lived life of people that I put through these conversations face to face and they can't just switch me off whenever they want. Can you believe people in my life are actually confronted with the fact that I want to have these conversations with them face to face and they cannot just leave? They're at my mercy. They can leave, I suppose, but they won't. The way I have just narrowly avoided actual hell, I have no idea why I just randomly checked this, but I just went back on the fucking thing and checked, and it was recording with the wrong microphone. It was, the sound was coming out on my laptop. What a near miss.

Wow, someone's looking out for me. Liv, was that you? You saved the day? Wow, thank fucking God for that. I have no idea where we left off. And I should have checked that, shouldn't I, before I kept going. But I just wanted to tell you, oh my God, I just nearly fucked up the whole episode. Ooh, I just got deja vu.

I suppose it's just because I've, I always fuck up episodes. I'm going to just start from the top. and it's my responsibility in the edit to cut anything that I have already said. Okay, a couple of years ago, I think it was like 2023. There was a big trend about the frazzled English woman. I'm laughing because I've just had this conversation with you. Don't forgetful, silly Billy. You've already forgotten what I just said.

The frazzled English woman TikTok trend was basically people talking about, it was the sort of Bridget Jonesification of a girl walking down the street. It was sort of a blonde, pale girl with the like rosy flushed cheeks because she's been sweating on the tube, blonde hair out everywhere, wrapped in a cute little scarf and she's running down Oxford Street in the rain. Beautiful image, a very selective view of a particular kind of look, a particular kind of woman. And I was saying, if you would have heard what I was just saying was basically how within that sort of uniform, there are sort of key conditions that are implied a certain hair. colour that comes with this woman, a certain skin colour that comes with this woman, a certain bank account that comes with this woman, a certain tax bracket, a certain sort of familial background, luck of where she lives.

But all these sort of signifies and markers of whether or not you can align with this. I wouldn't go as far as to say the frazzled English woman was a subculture, but it was definitely an idea of what a woman could be. And it was something that was talked about and you could argue sold to you as who you could be in this. autumn November. If she hasn't reared her head yet, I reckon the frazzled English woman, she's got a shot of poking back out at the end of this year. So we'll see. By the time I make this episode, though, she might have already come and gone. The cycle is, she's cannibalized herself, but she might be back. She might have died a painful death, as we see with so many of these

trends. But do you remember, if you were within the Seffian Wing World at the time, within goes without saying, I vaguely remember us having the frazzled English woman conversation just sort of skimming the surface of it. And I remember using my good old friend, Helen Le Bonham, Helena Bonham Carter, you know her house because that is her actual name. I remember talking about her and basically Sophie Habu was saying a similar thing. Sophie Habu saying it's pretty crazy to me, but she was basically saying that some posh people are too posh to get their teeth fixed. So they're walking around like with crazy teeth or whatever because they're too posh to get them fixed. This is such a specific British class system signifier.

And class in England is such a unique structure. It is really not about wealth. Money and wealth and finances is a fraction of the sort of nuance and the whole sort of world that surrounds that conversation. But it is funny, someone I view as like, honestly, Queen of England, Sophie Hiboo, to be like, posh people do this, posh people do that and I'm like and in the same way that I'll be saying things to you and you'll I won't see myself in a certain light but in relation to you you might see me and you know we're all

relative to one another um although I do think Sophie Hibu is pretty much objectively super fucking posh but anyway but I would think that and also interestingly with teeth in specific it's so funny to be like basically my teeth aren't fucked because I'm posh and just to be clear it works on a spectrum it's the really, really posh people don't get their teeth fixed. And then, like, loads people in the middle get their teeth fixed. And then people like me who basically got their braces on the NHS and then immediately put chewing gum in and ruin their retainer. Access to dental care in the UK is a very funny thing.

But what Sophie was saying there, I think, speaks to a certain idea of a certain amount of privilege, obviously, granting you access to appearing like a slob, basically. And I'm sorry to bring Helen and Bonham Carter into this, random woman. innocent bystander of the conversation, but I always find her as someone who I did in the previous take of this, I just said, it's like when you go to the doctor and they say, she's a relatively well-presented girl who, for whatever, who wants to kill herself, whatever, blah, blah, blah. I think you would objectively see Helen Le Bonham Carter walk into a room and, you know, in some degree you would say she's somewhat sort of scrappy looking. That's not to say,

she doesn't look great, it looks amazing. Or like, whatever. I tell her, to be it as well, to be it don't care. Okay? Is Helen Bonham Carter? I don't care. But she can appear a certain way. And it doesn't fucking matter because I'm pretty sure like her grandfather was like a prime minister for a hundred years ago or something like that. Who cares if you've got a stain on your jacket if you're from like a dynasty of like English culture. So at the beginning of the year, I've read a book by Natalie Ola. It was called Bad Taste. Bad taste, the politics of ugliness. And it was basically exploring how, class, race, gender, all of these sort of social constructs interact with the way that we present ourselves and perceive the way that others present themselves. Have we ever seen someone be like,

I'm not wearing a white t-shirt and jeans in a like basic girl at uni way? I'm wearing a white t-shirt and jeans in like a Jennifer Anderson 90s way. Do you know what I mean? And sort of this self-referential landscape placing oneself into first of all the world that doesn't exist anymore. And also marketing your own existence through the lens of something you deem to be, and we'll get on to this, quote unquote, chic. The exploration of trends and aesthetics and subcultures and the way that we present ourselves and how our identity is expressed through the way that we look is not new. But the process by which aesthetics and subcultures and language have been commercialized

has accelerated through the internet so dramatically that I think we've all just got our knickers in a twist a little bit. And so I just wanted to explore the thought that the first thing that I find intriguing is we are at such a specific point post-pendulum swing of like the woke one, the huge shift towards inclusivity around race and body image and gender inclusion, all of that sort of language was adopted by brands and lifted from the discourse and immersed within branding, marketing, advertising, products, etc., etc. And sold back to us. It wasn't necessarily genuine and it wasn't necessarily saving the world, but it was something quite different to what we see now, where, as the times do, we have pendulum swung into a different world where the way that we experience

racism and sexism and all of those things is different to how it was, for example, at the beginning of the decade in 2020 where we were Black Lives Mattering, Body Positivetying, and brands were greenwashing, that sort of landscape was really, really different to where we are now, the rise of conservativism, super skinny as being surveilled and controlled in a way where brands don't need to leverage an idea of wokenness. or inclusion in order to sell a product because that has been abandoned and replaced by over traditionalism, conservativism. I would argue hatred, meanness, evil. I don't find it surprising that we're at a moment where the language is focusing currently on things like

sheep. Can you think of anything safer in a conservative world than to be seen as sophisticated risk-free. Susan Sontag, my queen. Susan Sontag, my queen, and should be your queen, and all of our queens, really, if we had the brains, spoke about chic being,

like, completely devoid of risk, and chic is something that is controlled, basically. To be chic is to be controlled. Looking at something chic is to be looking at what is controlled, versus she sees the antithesis of that being camp, which particularly with the rise of AI is intriguing to me when everything is obviously following a cookie cutter, and AI is regurgitating our own stuff back to us in formulas

that what she would describe as could never be, quote unquote, camp, camp being something made with human sincere, uninhibited love. The rise of an awareness of chic, aligning at a time of so much sort of Nazism, is not a coincidence to me. And then even with something like whimsy, it is not a coincidence to me and I'm sure it's not a coincidence to you either that of course we want to go back to

pastelised iridescent version of the early 2000s when probably most of people adopting the trend were maybe just born the inner child of it all important to note off the top that the idea of chicness often really means skinny and white

at a time where skinniness and whiteness and a really really narrow view of what a human being should be, which is in fact either a man or a robot, it is not a surprise that we are clawing at these sorts of identities to make sense of where the fuck we are in the world and to make ourselves feel safe in it.

When we are feeling like we're not allowed to be anything and we're definitely not allowed to be ourselves, of course we claw for some version of a language that can explain who we could be, how we get there, what we need to buy and how that will make us safe. And if you think about it in the Sontag sense, if Sheik is to be controlled and Camp is to be something that is, again, sort of the antithesis of what happens particularly online where this conversation is

playing out, where the worst thing you can be in the world is seen to be uncool or cringe or vapid or camp requires you to be vulnerable, which is something. that isn't easy to do in a controlled conservative world and isn't easy to do in an arena where everyone feels so increasingly perceived and aware of what they might be doing that can make them come off as uncool or cringe. But biggest crime of the day is to be cringe or ignorant and to be camp, you have to inhabit both because they are inherently human expressions. One of my first sort of opinions that jumped out on this topic when it first started sort of coming up, even over the past few years, was basically people talking about the girlification of language

on TikTok or, yeah, micro trends and how these sorts of buzzwords take over your feed and become like a phenomenon that are encouraging you to buy something, encouraging you to be something. And then there's a huge sort of backlash to that conversation that cannibalizes it all together. and then poof, it turns into something else. And then just in time, ready to sell you something else. My first thing on that is, I think something that just at least needs to be acknowledged. Just honestly, I think it goes out saying. But people are obviously using this language on the internet to market whatever it is that they are creating

with language that the algorithm will recognize and reward. That is not a crime by any means. but it does mean that by consequence, when we're all using the same buzzwords and we're all using the same markers to denote certain objects or experiences in our lives, we are manipulating language in a way that we are not quite yet used to at a rate that we are not quite yet used to. And we are at risk of, and I think what people are so frustrated by, is flattening and censoring ourselves, and our feeds into a very particular view of what we should say or look like. And it doesn't allow for diverse language or inherently diverse people, diverse ideas, because it has to fit into this mould of a title card that the algorithm can recognize.

This sort of like algorithmic bias then I think makes people feel as though everyone is doing or saying the same thing. and it's true that sort of manipulating that, manipulating language to generate visibility is not necessarily a bad thing, but there are obvious consequences, positive and also ramifications of that. I just realized that I can see my hand in the thing and it's a bit, I'm spooky Halloween if you're watching the video. Hey, if you're not watching the video. Our fantasy commission says for him it's all about the friendships. Cute, Kevin. But I disagree.

Like with Bet365. I get paid the second my team goes up big with early payout and can cash out at any time before the game ends. No hard feelings, Kevin. Just faster payouts from Bet365. The home of winning early. Must be 19 and older. Ontario only.

Please play responsibly. If you were someone you know is concerns about gambling, visit connectsontario.ca or call 1-8665-3-2-6-200. Terms and conditions apply. New from Nespresso. Blend wellness into your coffee routine with a coffee plus range, infused with functional benefits. Choose the coffee you love with added B vitamins, like coffee plus B12 to help support immune function,

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It means that we find ourselves, look around and realise we're in this culture where we're being rewarded for being recognisable and not rewarded for being distinctive or honest. And I think timely just in the sense that something that is recognisable is so easily reinforced and regurgitated by something artificial like a robot versus something that comes from a human mind and can generate something new. I think a huge part of that that frustrates people is that this, a word, for example, like chic or like whimsy, becomes so oversaturated. It's meaning shifts and changes. That isn't something new that's happened since the dawn of time. Our language and ways of communicating have shifted so much. I think what makes us particularly uncomfortable with that, aside from it just giving one sort

of narrow perspective on something, I think I've seen a lot of people basically say that this is a conversation that only happens online and that this isn't real. And basically, if you just turn your phone off and get back in the real world, then nothing is to be said about these language shifts and the sort of like trends changing so fast and the acceleration of micro trends and the manipulation of language online. I disagree. I don't think that is true. I think you can have a different experience of your day in your life if you turn your phone off. but the world that will be around you is and will forever be changed by the fact that social media and the digital landscape exists. You can turn your phone off all you want, but this analog life

that you're looking for, this 90s world that you probably weren't even there for, it truly doesn't exist. And I don't mean that to say like, hey, we're all just nostalgic for something that we can't get back to. But I think the idea that these conversations around microtrends and what is or isn't call or how to be chic, etc. Can just all disappear and become nothing if you just turn your phone off and get back to the real world. I don't think is quite accurate and I don't think it's quite enough. I think there's a really important sentiment there about taking some fresh hair,

touching the grass, rolling around in the dirt a little bit, like read a book, see your friend, etc. Yes, it goes without saying. But you can turn your phone off all you like. You're going to sit down at the end of the day to watch TV and every advert you're going to is referencing a joke that was made online three months ago. And every t-shirt that you go to buy has a slogan on it that was a TikTok comment that blew up last season.

And every joke that your friend makes back to you is a video that they sent you last night. You can dip out of this online space all you want. But it is in you now and it is embedded in your life. And that is what I think people are so uncomfortable with, the idea that you probably don't really care. I don't think you really care that people are saying, cool girls should wear this,

this is what you should do to be chic or whatever, things I find chic, et cetera, et cetera. It's maybe a bit annoying to you. I think what you really don't like is the fact that the way that we use language to connect with one another has shifted at a rate that is alarming, hard to stabilize within yourself, it's disorienting,

and it's disorienting to be confronted with, much information all the time. Remember when I told you a few episodes ago, if you weren't here for that, this is a big one. There was this insight from the guy who, I think, founded Google. Is his name Eric Schmidt? You tell me. He basically said, by the way, he said this in 2010-ish. So it's already drastically changed by that time. So this is like 15-year-old information. So by this time, I can only imagine how much it has sort of blown up. But he says, he sort of made the claim and suggested, that the amount of information that was generated between the dawn of time,

ever heard of it, to 2002 or 2003, I think, is now generated every two days. That entire amount of information and data that was generated from the dawn of time to the beginning of the 21st century, 15 years ago, we were turning over that information every two days. I mean, the way that the world has,

developed and sort of progressed in 15 years since when that statement was made, I can only imagine it's probably like, what, every couple of hours now? That's what's getting you down. Bubs. Okay? That's what's, that's what is making us feel a little bit whibble-wobble is the fact that what the fuck is going on and you can turn your phone off all you like. The call girl conversation isn't going away in the way that you want it to.

The consequences are already out there. And I think it is important, again, to go back into the idea that. If you disregard this conversation about the discourses that happen online, my thing is basically just because the online world is the arena for these conversations to play out doesn't mean that you can just turn them off when you turn your phone off. If you are existing in what would be called the Western world, it's non-negotiable. You are embedded in a digital space. It isn't an opt-out anymore. There are levels to which you can participate, but the world around you has already been changed. Try and get a fucking bus somewhere. Try and like fucking travel through a city without a phone.

Try and buy a ticket to something without a phone. Try and participate in the world without participating online. And I don't mean like curating a social presence. I just mean an interaction with the digital space. There's no avoiding it now. And that has collapsed language and aesthetic into something new and it is a human response that now we're really disoriented. And that isn't without consequence, but I also don't think it's as simple as the girls on TikTok have gone mad, blah, blah, blah. I think we're less annoyed with each other and more annoyed about the state of consumerism. I think we're less annoyed with the girls on TikTok saying, cool girls are doing this, do this to be she, and more annoyed at the expectations that this late stage capitalism has put on us. And I think the

fact that your participation in it is almost unavoidable at this point. And I think what is really interesting about this conversation. So first thing I'll say is it's really interesting for me to be having this conversation as essentially the girl on the internet saying, cool girls do this, be chic doing this. Anyway, let's talk about it, blah, blah, blah. Those aren't necessarily pieces of content that I've made. But I know that for 99.9% of people, that is the sort of caricature of a person that I am coming to you as right now. Beyond that, I think there is an idea that we have, when we sort of engage in these sorts of conversations, I think it is a bit of a survival instinct that we have where we see ourselves as this sort of omnipresent onlooker to these

trends and conversations. And we're always somehow the innocent bystander, the clean and pure, pious onlooker who has no part in this conversation or in this in this trend and it's so um what's his name it's so um the onlooker thing the um jean paul sartra being the guy looking through the keyhole viewing judging observing understanding what everyone else is doing through that lens and then hearing the footsteps behind you that you two are available to be perceived and judge and understood and misinterpreted by whoever it is that turns their gaze to you. And I think that this conversation is particularly one where we like to see ourselves as outside of it as taking no part in whimsy or cool girl or any of these like moving trends.

But actually they are entrenched in the world that we exist in now. And that is really difficult for us to move through. And I think that the commercialisation of it, I think, is a huge sort of crisis. you could say is a huge, I think, reason for why it's so uncomfortable and annoying. As I say, like, someone makes a joke, literally just a person, plucked from obscurity, makes a joke and posts it, maybe a 10 second video. They post a joke. Six months later, it's on a t-shirt in Zara.

Or, like, H&M have got a whole advert using it. Oh, my God. I don't know who it was, which I think is a real shame. but there was a creator who, talking about Bridget Jones again, I don't know who it was, I'm so sorry, I believe it was a she, said, like, made a video, whatever, I'm assuming it was like a day in the life or something. This is Claire. She is a bit of a mess.

This is what she's going to wear today, blah, blah, blah, blah. And sort of like curated, sort of created that style, like on social media. Do you remember that? I feel like that was like a year or two ago, maybe two years ago. It is now like on literal brand advertising and I'm not sure what it's advertising. It might be Google or like it's definitely a big company is using that sort of like external narrative voice, Bridget Jones narrator. Here's blah blah blah.

She doesn't know what car to buy. She went to blah blah blah. Nothing is safe on the internet. If you say something, it can be adopted and sold back to you. And that is what I think is what we're finding harder to stomach. that now we don't just have ideas, amusings on the internet and watch them float by and laugh to ourselves about them. We make jokes and have ideas and share things on the internet and have them literally manipulated and sold back to us by huge corporations that don't reflect us.

Our fantasy commission says for him it's all about the friendships. Cute, Kevin, but I disagree. Like with bat three six five, I get paid the second my team goes up big with early payout and can cash out at any time before the game ends. No hard feelings, Kevin. Just faster payouts from Bet365. The home of winning early. Must be 19 and older.

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Where some see heroes and others see egos. Bloomberg sees the era of billionaire athletes. A fad to some? the future of money to others. We see crypto's trillion dollar swings, the end of jobs, or the end of human struggle. We see the endless funds fueling the AI hype. While others follow the noise, we follow the money. Learn more at Bloomberg.com. Language and our jokes and our, the ways that we connect to one another have been commercialized, and that is really, really hard to stomach. These sorts of jokes used to feel like, hours. It used to feel like a private bubble that was a small part of a wider world. And now the

wider world is the bubble of the internet. It's the dominating market. It's the biggest vehicle for communication, which inherently promotes a cynicism that makes people reject things like, quote, unquote, whimsy, because it feels like the antithesis of what whimsy is, if whimsy is, I mean, no wonder we want whimsy. We want something pure and lovely and fun and cute. And cute and it's hard to really feel like anything can be fun and cute when it exists in this world now and I don't think that that is exclusive to the internet. I think that is very much outside of the internet and in our real worlds. And I think, first of all, the backlash to a trend is a trend in itself. As soon as something becomes mainstream and becomes a trend,

as soon as it has gone from niche to trend to mainstream, the backlash is coming. And for a very fragile moment for a time, there's a small margin where you are no longer called to be in support of whimsy, quote unquote, or no longer cool to talk about chic, but you are, you found that perfect breathing room for just a month or two

where you can be a part of leading the church, charge on the backlash to the trend. Is it not just a trend in itself? Of course it is. But we're looking for safety. There's safety in numbers and there's also a lot more social capital to be gained, particularly online, to be gained from talking down on something and offering something that could be interpreted as intellectual or critical, for example, the spiral, than it is to seemingly embrace something that is like childlike or vulnerable. or sincere. I think that also links to the book, Bad Taste, which I think if this conversation is remotely interesting to you, you, I don't want to give a book recommendation because I

say that quite seriously, but you could consider looking into the book and seeing how you feel about it and it's got nothing to do with me. I take a recommendation very seriously, you know, that from the last book episode, but it does really link back to in the book thinking about who is allowed to, for example, have bad taste or who is allowed. to appear or present a certain way, when we so look down on anything that is created and presented online, there is, again, like a small margin where you're allowed to make content online if it seems like a bit intellectual or thoughtful. For example, have I heard of it? Or even more so, you're allowed to consume stuff that exists online if it has this air of like this sort of elitist

intellectualized framing. I don't think that's an issue. But I think it's an important thing to recognize when we're looking at what we do and don't allow ourselves to take part in, like the idea of something vapid on the internet. Again, to be honest, I find that to be,

I find the surveillance of that to be ultra-conservative. In my view, the idea of us sort of policing one another to the level of what you can create or consume in the way that we currently are. It's really, I think we're in a state of like, not like other content. And I say this as someone who,

I think I'm making content. And I will say, we've been making this kind of stuff for a while and I will actually go as far as to say, seven wing sort of pioneered the, you get what I'm saying. You know, I've been doing this for years. It's not, this is not new to me.

But I recognize that I'm a girl on the internet making content that, making content and full stop that is an interesting and fragile thing to offer and exist. I think the sort of policing of, I think the lack of regulation around content and content, I think the lack of regulation around content and the reality that so much of it is made with a lack of care or consideration for anyone other than like the person making it to make money. and I say that as someone who, look, I love so much content. I love so many people making content.

I think so many people do amazing things for amazing reasons. I think that is a real and visible example of people who don't fit into that bracket and they're making thoughtless things to generate a ton of money and it is potentially extremely harmful. Yippee! But that said, that aside, I think content, therefore, needs to be discussed and considered. And I think there are certain levels of expectation that we can have as consumers

on the people creating the things that we consume. That said, that aside, I don't think it's unfair to say that. I think the majority of conversation around things that are created, particularly by women, I think can be seen as extremely conservative policing and horizontal surveillance from women toward other women

who are looking to zip it and are looking to sort of flatten what we should be saying online. I don't know if you'll like that, but that is how it feel. Essentially, I think we are just feeling a little bit suffocated by how homogenous our consumption is now. And I think that is a really fair way to feel.

a bit exhausted, a bit indifferent, even apathetic to the things that are being fed to us. And I think at a time where it feels very, I feel like people are going to think this is a bit airy, fairy now, but I feel like things being made with like love and humanity now being pushed out by things being made in the absence of love, with the absence of humanity, it makes us feel particularly fragile. And I don't think it's, you know, look, you know I don't care. You want to sit talking about chic, etc. Actually, do you think I care?

I don't care. I know I just spoke about it for 45 minutes. Actually, you've got me wrong. I don't care. I don't care. In between me and you, I don't fucking care. Did you book your smear test? You bloody better have.

I didn't. But I will. Next one, I will. I'm going to, basically, I went to do it. I went to do it, like, online. But my doctor's really annoyingly. I've got rid of the online thing. So now I have to sit on the phone with someone.

which is absolutely fine, and I will be doing that. And so will you. I don't know if I've said really anything what I wanted to say in this episode, but we've definitely spiraled around something. Thank you so much for being here. This is, as I say, it is not a all-encompassing and comprehensive take on anything, frankly. It is just a collection, a curation of musings, a little bit, you know. It is, as I say, a weird.

A curation of weird and thoughtful musings for weird and thoughtful girls. I kind of like that. Wait, I kind of did something with that one. Do I like that? I could say it again and see. Well, I'll say it in the next one and we can see if we like it. Yeah. So don't talk to me about my hair.

But, yeah, don't talk to me about my hair. And what else? Liv, this one's for you. God, I really hope your name's Liv, because I've said that enough times now. And once again, I just don't want to leave you. I don't want to leave you. Thank you so much. See you around.

My reg league goalie says he plays for the love of the game. You gave up six goals last week, Steve. Maybe play to win, huh? Like with Bet365, I get paid the second my team goes up big with early payout and can cash out at any time before the game ends. Steve, Bet365. The home of winning early. Must be 19 and older, Ontario only.

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