Goes Without Saying - the reality of 'influencers': podmas #5

Episode Date: December 5, 2023

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Wendy's Small Frosty is the ultimate summer refreshment. And not because it's cool and creamy and made with fresh Canadian dairy. It's also refreshingly cheap. Just 99 cents until July 14th. It's a treat for you and your wallet. ACAST powers the world's best podcasts. Here's a show that we recommend. Nature. I've got a gay rooster named Francois. Here's a show that we recommend. And this is a field guide to gay animals. A podcast about queerness in the natural world.

The animal kingdom is queer and we are a part. Find a field guide to gay animals on Spotify, Apple. Or wherever you get your podcasts. ACAST helps creators launch, grow, and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast.com Day five. Ho, ho, ho, hello. Hello. Hello, everybody.

What's behind the door today? Let me know, let me know. Let's open up the little door, guys. What's behind the door today let me know let me know let's open up the little door guys what's behind it it's a it's a whole load of arsehole influences and sephian wing oh my god and they were just standing so awkwardly in the corner oh my god hi we're all in here that's our new thing we're thinking we start each one of like you're opening your little advent calendar it's an advent what's behind the door something chaotic something disappointing something absurd it's a little daily treat the question i wanted to ask you oh yeah um straight away was do you have an advent calendar this year i actually don't know yeah what have you got um actually shout out to my boyfriend's colleague who for whatever reason

yeah shout out she was well they were all given i think this advent calendar and then normally my boyfriend like one of us will get us both an advent calendar and i hadn't and to my knowledge he hadn't and then his colleague was like oh you can take mine and then oh my god have one i know it's really nice god what a sacrifice yeah i know but she was she said she didn't need it or something but i said to my boyfriend please make sure you let her know that yeah yeah very grateful this is very nice that is very nice i know but he works with nice people so yeah yeah so yes i do and it's a hotel chocolat one oh my god that's yeah i know i've never had such a one

but no very good i don't think I've ever penguins and been in hotel chocolat I've been in but I perused the fine way yeah I think I perused the wedding chocolate yeah as yeah yeah exactly look we're chocolate is but I don't think I've ever purchased it for myself it's quite a gift it's a real gift but I don't know if I actually bought one I saw your um nomo vegan chocolate one on the windowsill the other day i spied it and i thought i didn't even say it to you i didn't think i had a chance but i got i haven't had a an advent calendar for like a few years in a row now really yeah i just haven't kind of cared for myself in that way okay just as soon as some like my mum stopped buying them for me i just never had

one because i wasn't really gonna go buy one yeah and i think this year i've got a little bit more disposable income i can you know buy myself bought my mum one a little no-mo one as well that's really nice of you sephie well done well she's at my grandma's at the moment my grandma's out of hospital everybody woohoo thank fuck amazing um and my mom's staying with her at the moment and um she has i when she was away i was like shit she actually hasn't got an advent calendar so i went and bought her one and then i was saying to my sister last night i was like is it really an arsehole move of me to eat up to five on the day she gets back so i was saying like but i haven't done that i haven't done it i was like i really want some chocolate in the evening

i was like we could eat up to five because she's not back until the fifth you know when people open all the doors in one my brother did that for no he had an advent calendar for november and then december it i find it interesting how much it bothers me like you know in a personal sense like i don't care that other people do it but the thought of me doing that like i literally think i'm gonna be like locked away do you know what happened to me when i was a kid that's really bad no my sister actually apologized for this recently oh it was her and her friend you know what who listens to this podcast i know and a lot of well i don't know some of her friends do and i'm gonna call her out by name because she will probably be listening emmy say hi hi emmy they did that awful thing to me i used to share a room with my sister and emmy came around to

sister and her friends they awful to you yeah they were outrageous to me i used to share a room with my sister and emmy came around to sister and her friends they all 40 yeah they were outrageous to me they used to bully me quite a lot oh no but they they you know you can get you can give it back okay yeah um she was around enough to give it back yeah and she well not it wasn't just her it was my sister and her friend they yeah they opened every single door of my advent calendar and ate it all. The whole thing. You can imagine the tears. I was so upset. How old were you?

I don't know. We shared a room, so I was probably 10, 11, 12. Wow. 12. I was 13. 10, 11, 12. I don't know. It was a couple of years ago.

We shared a room. No, probably actually younger because I don't know when we shared a room up till. I mean, that, yeah, it's unforgivable. Yeah, all my doors. I mean, you're not welcome here no more. I can't believe you did that to me. Love you so much. Lizzie was definitely the instigator.

That's my sister. I mean, yeah, that makes sense. That's nice. Yeah. But yeah, no, I'm a bit kind of... I'm sorry to everyone if this is the only advent you're getting is little old sephian wings podmas happy to be here really yeah i'm happy to be here you know what i'm absolutely fucking buzzing to be here we were actually just saying off the pod or behind the

pods i don't really like that i find it um upsetting yeah it's a bit um it does something almost to my brain my brain can't fathom what that is yeah i know what you mean yeah behind the pot it's almost it's really humanizing the pod yeah yeah i think that's what i find it confusing it's like oh yeah anyway um yeah we were just saying behind the pod's back that literally not a day goes by at least every single day i fully see the life that i would have been living without this podcast like every single day loud and clear loud and clear loud and proud and it and it bugs me and it doesn't feel good no um so i'm happy that we have this so happy that we have this especially in december it's the best time to have this i love it every bloody god damn day

isn't it yeah so we're gonna hopefully be coming in in advance a bit what did you say we're coming home in advance we're gonna be coming in in advance like we're recording a few hopefully oh we're recording a few right now yeah yeah i think i said we've got to do five i think that's the next fine day i think that's the next thing because we're going to be busy in the week shall we kick off at your house by a bit of a debrief of the happenings of our spotify event yeah i think that's what we're here for i think that's what we're all here for so any apple podcasters feel free to see yourselves think that's what we're here for. I think that's what we're all here for. So any Apple podcasters, feel free to see yourselves out. That's me. I'll leave.

Do you want to give us the rundown? So for those of you that don't know, we got invited to Spotify Wrapped Live, which was a cool event, which had, I think Sam Smith was performing, Charlie XCX. I heard Ray playing at one point. We were actually queuing at the bar and we missed all of the performers. Everything. We missed everything.

We saw Charlie XCX though. At one point, you said to me, wait, where is she? And I was like, she's over there. And I pointed to the interpreter. You were pointing and pointing and you were like, that's her, that's her. And I was like, no.

Dancing away. That's the interpreter. No. And then my eyes just kind of panned across the room to the right and there she was charlie yeah in all her glory mistaken to be honest it was crazy wing needs to wear her glasses at all points well i was wearing my contacts but it was the only person i could see but i could see clearly it was like an old man oh god in my memory it was definitely not charlie i have clear clear clear vision okay

good for you i know it's a great thing it's a great tab catch us up so we went to this thing um we were invited as a kind of vips but it turns out that in the queue it turns out everybody under the sun is a vip the queue was as long as the normal entry like we had to queue for like an hour outside as the vips we were in that sort of area which they did apologize for yeah we were milling around we're milling around on email and we realized we accidentally had stumbled into the v vip there was a rung above which was really really intensely vips we're talking louis through we're talking grace beverly we're talking uh sophia and chint talking Grace Beverly we're talking uh Sophia and Chincy over there yeah Olivia Neal was there we saw stars Louis Theroux is obviously a rung above

how's that for the rest I would say yeah and it was fascinating do you want to um say some things I feel okay so we came away with some thoughts and we've had like many a conversation about it i really want people to feel like we will give you all of the information that you desire yeah like literally anything you want to know i'll tell you but i almost feel like my brain is so scrambled that i just don't know what to make of it in terms of like i don't even know what to say about it the main thing you know in a sense it was kind of everything that you would expect but i would say the one thing like i feel like we're quite you know we're not idiots like we've got our heads screwed on we know that things can be made out to be much more

like glamorous than they actually are when you're living it but i would say like even though we expected that i would say one thing that stuck out stuck out one thing that stuck out to me one thing that stood out to me or stuck out yeah either or it was that one thing that i just didn't expect or one thing i was naive to was that it's actually the majority of those sorts of behind the scenes industry events are a lot of people stood around and i think i underestimated the degree of standing around yeah yeah yeah and that to me was my biggest takeaway it's just a lot of standing around it's a lot of people standing around looking at each other standing around and i hey i'm a fan of standing around i can stand around all day oh god i do i do it i think when you see it through a

screen it doesn't feel so much like standing around because you see two minutes of the standing around totally four hours of the standing around it is interesting isn't it that was the biggest takeaway for me was like it's just a lot of kind of mulling over there's a lot of familiar faces all in a pen together kind of looking at each other i think the thing the main thing that it's reframed for me is we all have this idea of kind of fame and celebrity i think i realized that it doesn't mean literally anything and i always thought oh it doesn't really mean anything but i think really now i've noticed it's like kind of everyone the the the bar for fame or whatever that is i mean if we're in the room it's low it's incredibly low the bar once again is in hell

it's so yeah it's actually so insane every single person really oh i don't know and also i i have a problem with any kind of like elitism thing as loads of everyone does really i really hate anything that just the visuals of like the people that are paid for tickets are on the bottom rung the people that vip um tickets the guests were on like a like a visual hierarchy they were slightly above and then there's above that you walk up some more steps and you're in the vvip very small area i really and and the people in there so we met some really nice people we obviously did but there were some sour sour moments in there where it was like okay you're being mean you're being mean yeah here we go this is what they told us about yeah i think as well like for me there's a frustration that actually this is

something that really bothers me that i just think this industry and kind of like i would say funneling down from the kardashians there's an idea that people who make money on the internet who are so often women are looked down on and like viewed in a certain way so like lots of young women like kind of lots of like 20 year old girls have been able to like buy themselves houses and like do crazy things and like elevate their social status and like move like transcend their class even through for example just talking shit on the internet good for them the way that society views them there's such as obvious stigma towards influencing content creators and lots of it is incredibly valid because there are so many crazy things that are happening every day with people

like with huge platforms denying their responsibility or even like rejecting their responsibility in quite um crazy unashamed ways and also just the amount of wealth moving around in those circles for like the amount of labor they're doing is not balanced absolutely wild but there's so much just pure hatred that comes towards young women and so much of it is without a doubt for me misogyny like there's just no other way of looking at it like it's not that these people are without flaw or shouldn't be held accountable for certain things it's also just ultimately that you really do just hate women you hate to see women looking good you hate to see women talking you hate to see women taking up space you hate to see women working for themselves you hate to see women being confident and that is really frustrating then when you enter a room where some of that is almost some of that

bias is like reaffirmed of oh all of those women are really out of touch and then you go into that room and you meet lots of out of touch women part of me is like really frustrated and like finds that really painful to know that like lots of the stigma that faces the industry is upheld by lots of like very rude and entitled yeah individuals wendy's small frosty is the ultimate summer refreshment and not because it's cool and creamy and made with fresh canadian. It's also refreshingly cheap. Just 99 cents until July 14th. It's a treat for you and your wallet. ACAST powers the world's best podcasts.

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I'm Owen Ever. I'm Lane Kaplan-Levinson. And this is a field guide to gay animals. A podcast about queerness in the natural world. The animal kingdom is queer. And we are a part. Find a field guide to gay animals on Spotify, Apple. Or wherever you get your podcasts.

ACAST helps creators launch, grow, and monetize their podcasts. Everywhere. ACAST.com. Yeah, it pisses me off and it and it's so it's just so disappointing it makes me really sad you hear me yeah i kind of had a point but i've kind of lost it now yeah i think my overwhelming kind of my feeling when i walked out of there because i felt quite bad about it for a few days i always feel bad about nice things so it's just part of my whole vibe really something nice and fun will happen and I'll just like kind of mull it over and feel miserable for a few feel really sad for a few days the best day of your life and then

the next day you're like god I feel absolutely terrible yeah no I do and I and I prepare for it like if I ever have a fun sort of party or I don't know like a fun thing that i'm doing i know that i think just my energy levels i'm really bad at managing them i give it all and then i just have to kind of die the next day sort of thing and i was prepared for it and i and i had it again as i was prepared for after the event and i felt quite um sad i think because i which isn't quite shaken up almost yeah and it isn't the feeling you should have after being in a room with louis theroux and all of these people that like for example louis theroux is someone that i've admired my whole life and it was he wasn't giving me bad vibes at all he was actually

giving me good vibes 100 good vibes from him although interestingly in a lot of ways he was just stood there doing what lots of other people were doing but there was no badness exuding from where i would say there was badness there were looks exuding from other areas okay um yeah he was just a man he was just a man minding his business which is a rare sight to be honest it is it is a rare sight yeah but yeah no i think i felt a bit like is this something that i want to be a part of i think that was my overarching thing of like i don't know how much i value this space and i don't know how much i see myself and like my values as a person with aligned with the values of or the way that some of these people are acting of like even within that small the the top sphere of that room

the vvip there's a hierarchy within that and it's relying on the fact that you're the numerical value attached to your name your following number or your money number is making you above the other people i really it's actually making my skin it's making me feel sick actually so i think i was mulling it over the next few days and I was thinking like that isn't something I necessarily want to fall into in my life where I'm associating massively with the identity of like I'm part of this elite club of people I just don't I don't like that at all so I think I was moving around my next few days feeling quite sad and like quite introspective of like who am I what do I want what do I want to be like pursuing in my life and then I felt so much better after speaking to you uh yesterday actually because you said a phrase that I really really liked you said I think we stood out like like a sore thumb

which made me feel great it made me feel great because I think I was feeling like oh okay if I'm there that means I'm one of these people and not saying that everyone was bad at all i'm absolutely and i wanted to say as well that even the people that we named specifically we're not necessarily attaching this conversation not at all because we wouldn't we wouldn't mention the people that we're saying at all i wouldn't mention by name anyone so that yeah if you've heard a name they're on they're in the good books yeah you're safe your name's been mentioned you're good yeah um but i think yeah you were like oh we stood out like a sore thumb and i was like i'm actually really happy about that because i was having a bit of an identity

crisis of like i not like these people i really don't feel like i would treat people in the way they've treated people us and i not that they treated us badly but i would one person did treat us badly one person did treat us badly who will remain nameless but of course she will but it was it was a shock i mean it's actually i will say like i had previously enjoyed this person's tiktok videos yeah and from now since i've revisited their content and it does leave a bit of a sour taste there's a big sour taste there just and it's actually made me kind of what you were saying about like after that experience then you kind of get in your head and you kind of unpack over the next few days like

what the fuck just happened to me where was i who am i i'm so sorry but i'm so confused tips yeah it was confusing kind of everything is a lie after that experience with this one person in particular i have found myself kind of thinking about and it's something we've said before but like i think for me and i think for a lot of people in this space and probably for a lot of people listening we kind of go through the world like really it comes it wouldn't just wow i don't want to be a bitch like i would have to make an effort to be an arsehole i would have to i'd be hyping myself up in the car be hyperventilating going you have to do it just say it just say it you have to stand up for yourself like all i would have to go through hell to intentionally be an arsehole to actually yeah to upset somebody or be disrespectful to

somebody or be rude to somebody or come off mean or cold that's not the vibe that i want to give no no no and the encounter we the opposite right even the words are like no please don't be cold it just almost i couldn't if i try i would have to really i'd have to make an effort that's it doesn't come naturally i think what i was shocked by is how naturally like almost the natural state it's like they're not trying to be mean they're not trying to be as the natural state they are yeah that's what it is and i think that was the thing that coming away from that specific encounter with this one person who yeah it's gonna remain nameless but yeah they do make great tiktoks and they're funny and like i do think they have a funny persona but i came away from that i've

really been analyzing like wow you are essentially a young woman who gets to kind of move through the world however you want yeah really coldly and really um a bit meanly and a bit rudely and like you're fine and i am bending my back every day to make people happy and feel good and i'm still kind of cut up about it like it's still not working for me yeah and yet you are being a fucking cunt and everything seems fine like almost it's just restructured my brain a little bit of like you don't feel any discomfort when you meet someone and you're fucking rude wow the thing that i find funny about that is that i don't feel like are you a feminist icon i don't know no definitely not definitely not no but there's something in there that is powerful to see a young woman being a fucking horrible person no it's

horrible it's actually not like the thing that the thing is so i don't feel like i go through the world trying to be nice i don't feel like i'm breaking my back like i don't feel like i'm trying trying trying at all i feel like i have a lot of space for people to be a bit rude accidentally or be upset someone accidentally make a mistake all of the stuff i'm not in any way saying that i don't even try myself to be a perfect person i actually think it's a fool's errand like you can't do it you can't i have so much room for someone to meet me and be in a bit of a shit mood that day and that's absolutely fine i don't go through this life trying to make everyone happy and like me and all the stuff but i think naturally just literally just naturally being myself in every environment i don't think i've ever really treated someone in the way that just just in that kind of not intentionally for sure the natural

state is angry a bit judgy horrible mean it's like literally pulling a mean face a dirty looks that's how it felt guys once again if you meet us you can ask us what happened at skate camp and ask us maybe who we're talking about and if we're feeling a bit ballsy on the day we might because there's a part of me that's like when i watched they didn't do anything that bad it was just definitely they were so fucking rude they were so fucking literally shocked me like i think i actually had to hold my jaw in place that it didn't drop no it wasn't that bad they didn't even spit in our drink or anything no they didn't spit in the drink but they essentially came over like oh hi like why am i being introduced to you sort of thing who the fuck are you one thing i don't like which

i'm kind of pointing my finger now but they weren't very nice to our manager which really you know how we feel about our manager don the attitude there's something really intriguing about like almost how are you doing that how is it natural to you have you have you are you just really is it defense yeah is it defense are you just jaded are you really disillusioned by this like we come in super green and we're like oh my god we're at spotify event it's mental we're looking around this mental everyone's on love island this is crazy you've been here a hundred times and you're bored but i don't know if that's the case you're fucking rude but this is the thing this is this is the thing for me okay the thing that amazed me is we're not talking about stars here we're not talking about a list a list it's the thing that surprised me is

how little amount of fame or success it takes to become that way to want to push everyone that's kind of you viewers below you down it's such a little this is what was crazy about the huge line of vips all of these people are included in the vip title in some way which is a disgusting title i'm also just gonna put out but also we'll take the ticket to spotify live love it go start saying and we deserve it no 100 but the amount that the tiny tiny tiny bit of like quite literally like five seconds of your five minutes of fame sort of level that's how much that five seconds of summer five minutes of fame famously that it takes before you instantly

develop that sort of approach to meeting people of like oh i'll speak to them because they've got this many followers i won't speak to them because they've got this many it it was actually quite um it was very very very revealing and very very very throwing yeah i think it's a nice reminder though of like there were also some really again someone who will remain remain nameless but was in a vest that was a great person yeah we had a great interaction yeah so nice normal whatever chilled and i will also say every i think the managers are the real vvip the real stars of the show those are doing the work i think yeah they're doing the work they're actually cool people it's like oh you've actually got a really fucking cool job you don't just sit around on your fucking phone all day in front of a microphone like oh you're actually a cool person doing cool things you're

intelligent you've got yourself to a cool place and also you've seen so much like i find it fucking fascinating that to me if there's a social hierarchy in that pen of people yes us scum of the earth and the managers i think are like the queen and castle i just think it's so fucking interesting but then i also think that situation for me and kind of the crux of the conversation that we had after that event and after you'd had a few days tomorrow and i had had a few days tomorrow and we kind of came to it and shared our reflections three days today's the first day that I felt like myself again. And it was on, what, Thursday? And it's Monday. That was a while ago.

That's how long it took. I'm already like, yeah, it feels ages ago. But today's the first day that I've had, I've been able to like feel myself again and kind of I've got my thoughts formulated. We didn't talk about it yesterday though, did we? Yeah, but I remember, no, we did a bit because I was like, I just need a good night's sleep. And then I was like, and then I can think. Or was it Saturday?

No, I was in Bristol on Saturday. Oh, yeah. I wasn't here on Saturday either. We spoke yesterday. We recorded yesterday's, today's episode yesterday. That feels like a really long time ago. Does it? Yeah.

I don't know why that just feels like days ago. But yeah, it was literally yesterday. Yeah, that was yesterday afternoon even. But that kind of conversation. And I think maybe, yeah, along with saying we stuck out like a sore thumb sort of thing what i was kind of saying to you after like during that conversation in our reflections yeah in our shared analysis of our life which you can see a bit of that on our instagram we made a little reel where we're sitting on the floor of a train yeah yeah instagram

uh-huh um i really came away from that event feeling so proud of the fact that we'd managed to somehow muzzle our way into an event hosted by spotify that like that's a space that we exist in we're not just in a void we're not non-existent human beings that we exist it makes me feel really like it really curbs the dissociation of like oh i'm a real person i have a real life and like we really contribute to people's rapt it like felt like a really celebration of us along with that it gave me i think the best reminder of like how amazing is that we do it together because as we both said that that would be an absolutely abhorrent experience i think to go through as an individual on your own and you walk into that room maybe just you and your manager

if you have a manager i mean i'd be clinging to them like a fucking lifeboat like they would be so sick of me by the end they they would literally they'd have claw marks all over them and i'd be fired by the end of the night like no it would be bad and i think for me that event was intriguing and like in a lot of ways it was disappointing to see people being rude but overall i came away from it feeling so proud of us so positive about like the things that are coming for the future and just so excited by the fact that like we're gonna have more and more moments hopefully to celebrate this thing that we've done and i think more than anything i came away from it feeling like you know we fucking deserve to be there like yeah it's completely down to our manager freya that got us the invite and without her we

wouldn't have been invited and maybe we would have been there next year sort of thing like that wasn't just happening because spotify just recognized us and see us yeah we weren't getting special award of the night yeah there's nothing special going on it was literally just yeah if anything we snuck into the really special yeah it was like okay we can get a couple of tickets for zeffie and wing yeah we'd love to go sort of yeah the pride that i feel and like the excitement about us being there and like being able to have more and more moments hopefully where we get to celebrate what we've done and have fun with each other that's for me the very tangible sense is me and you get to go to an event see louis through have some free drinks and enjoy some music and we have

a good time in a celebrity yeah and we get to excuse me that was my main thing because i think the majority of it really didn't shock me the main thing that shocked me was there's a lot of standing around and everyone else is kind of just standing around yeah that i think is my was my biggest thing of like oh it was more standing around than i thought it would be and i kind of even thought it'd probably just be a lot of standing around it was i think i had no vision of it before i had no vision and then i saw it and thought oh i don't know i don't like what i say but actually i love it now that i've had a few nights as a new playground yeah yeah there's a whole new arena for us to be silly and like i also really like the idea of taking everyone with us and like when we film those little reels and like being able to talk about it now on the podcast

like it feels really fun because i know a lot of people have been here for a long time and i think the fact that i kind of want to actually take a minute to affirm that if you're gatekeeping us and we're just like your secret friends through your earphones we very much still are and we're just we couldn't be more yeah we've had one glimpse yeah and like this doesn't mean that we are something that we're not we're just very much not and to me it affirmed the fact that we are like this special niche interest for people and like we can kind of sneak in through the back door and like which we literally did sneak and we weren't invited into that ways yeah we found a secret entry i feel really positive about

it and i think it's important to like hold on to that and not let other people's um bleakness and shittiness take our special thing and like who we naturally are like i'm i don't fear that we're gonna be these black mirror follower obsessed people because it would just it would take a lot for us to get there honestly it's just not who we are so that's how i feel that's how i feel too it scared me it it threw me through a thing i don't know yeah they're ups and downs and uh but now i've had some nights to sleep but also yeah now i've had some nights to sleep on it and think about it i had the overwhelming thing where i woke up this morning and i was like wow yeah like the overwhelming sense of like yeah that was really cool that was the first time i'd really thought that four days later like that was really cool that's good and that's where i'm

at now it is really cool to be honest we are really cool we are and so are you harry so yeah especially are you all right okay well we did ask on our instagram does anyone know anything but we've accidentally gone on for 31 minutes i also i think i put it in a bit too much of a cryptic way like people are saying more general social media conversation rather than like the behind the scenes of like what influencers are like so true that someone said bring back flip phones you know what I'm up for that 100% we actually saw a really cute flip phone the other day do you remember the Hello Kitty one yeah I was thinking about that recently actually um yeah I think yeah cool well it's a lovely little let's do a little christmas outro assume we slayed too hard the same we slayed too hard bethlehem trees angels

um it's quite religious yeah it's really religious should we just go should we just say that was a little thing we're gonna say christmas let's just call it bethlehem i think bethlehem bethlehem bethlehem to you and your kin. Wendy's Small Frosty is the ultimate summer refreshment. And not because it's cool and creamy and made with fresh Canadian dairy. It's also refreshingly cheap. Just 99 cents until July 14th. It's a treat for you and your wallet.