Goes Without Saying - therapy & privilege: not sad just poor

Episode Date: May 22, 2022

TW: suicide. sephy & wing discuss mental health, the (in)accessibility of therapy, and baked beans.join the conversation every monday.shop our merch: sephyandwing.comcome and chat in our book club!speak your mind on the @sephyandwing instagram!you’re invited to our discord group chat: https://discord.gg/zuPH7gyeGp Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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Acast helps creators launch, grow, and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast.com Goes Without Saying, listening to Goes Without Saying with Sefi and Wing. I'm Wing. And I'm Safi. And this episode is all about the kind of relationship between therapy and mental health and mindfulness and all of that nonsense and privilege and class and how those things intersect and basically how we can make the best out of oftentimes a bad situation and kind of um make the most of what we've got access to when therapy is inaccessible and kind of discuss social media therapy and all of that shit i think this is a good app i don't know i don't feel confident but i think i think it's fun i had fun yeah i think it was good okay good thank you for listening

hi again another we're pre-recording again pre-recording it's been about half an hour since we last spoke to you in our minds and our timeline but when you hear this this is probably recorded a little while ago so it just puts the fear of god yeah me because I just know, I know we've said this before, but like 10 seconds, as I'm saying something, I already disagree with myself. So it's almost like by three weeks time, I'll definitely disagree with myself. But anyway, that's your cross to bear, not mine.

You have to listen to this, not me. Also, we just got progressively kind of tired throughout the day. So by this point, I'm talking absolute shit. Yeah. So in half an hour, God knows what I'm going to be saying. And we've got quite an interesting topic. I know. That almost requires a good bit of thought behind it.

And I don't know if either of us can live up to that. I know. So it's a good one to be a bit mental for by accident. Oops. How are you doing um last time I checked again um I am doing okay I just went for a walk went to the shops I was really scared I was gonna like bump into someone that I like met oh recently and I was just you know when you're buying like not that i was in buying in buying embarrassing things but i was buying like you're a bit self-conscious i was a bit like i don't really want to be caught right now i don't identify with these things why what were you buying i don't identify with the items it wasn't even bad it was literally bagels oh delicious amazing which ramen

what like uh it was like they're like kind of instant noodles but they are so good they're called nongshim have you ever had them i think that's how you say it they're red they're like extra extra spicy oh i know the ones yeah they're called um on the back it says gourmet spicy definitely not gourmet yes amazing but i got those delicious and i also got uh this is the bit that i didn't want to be seen um like you know the half tip like a half tin of off-brand baked beans don't really want you to know that i don't buy heinz and all the because i don't i'm not actually um tied to heinz as a brand and all of the large cans of beans this is so boring was slightly squished someone had like they dropped off the

thing somehow yeah so i thought i don't want this person to bump into me now um and he didn't so it's fine i got out can i actually talk about a bit of um bean controversy definitely i think that this is really like i think it's quite a british convo we're about to get into so you're about to get a lot more cultured if you're not from the uk your brain is going to be expanding um that was completely sarcastic by the way everyone knows that's sarcastic by the way your brain's expanding through bean combo look i don't know i't know. I have to preempt these things. Yeah, I think there's a misconception of the nation's favourite bean. Wow, okay. Okay, okay.

Let me think. You ready for this? This really will blow your mind. I think I know what you're going to say. I think you know what I'm going to say as well because I reckon I've said it to you before because it's quite... I think I hold this...

I think I... It's true to your heart. You know what? I had my mind changed. Yeah, it's true you know i had my mind changed yeah it's true to me i think it changed my perspective and i think look if i can do that for just one other person then it's worthwhile right i think as you say a heinz bean a heinz baked bean is a is a classic it's not for me it's mush it's mush in a can for me it's mush it's i think it's really saucy i think there's a

lot more sauce and a lot less bean completely agree i think but i think there's a misconception or i think there's just a general the general consensus i think in this country is that it's heinz baked beans like that's the classic great marketing from them really it is it has to be heinz was their slogan i'll tell you the underdog that I think is actually wait what is the nation's favorite bean this is the underdog I'm calling it oh I thought you meant like underdog beans I was like what is it no I mean that would be cool I think they've even put this on the can through like um the results of like a blind taste test for example oh i've seen the adverts a branston baked bean i knew it is i think better than a heinz baked bean and i was never really sure

and then one time my boyfriend always said they're better and then he i think made me breakfast once or something and i said the beans are really good today he said, it's because I didn't use Heinz. I used Branston beans. Do you know who also likes Branston beans? Who? Pippi Eats. If you don't follow her on Instagram, Pippi Eats. She listens to the podcast.

Pippi Eats. I saw her saying Branston beans were really good. I mean, she's not wrong. I'm pretty sure it was you, Pippi. I hope it was. Don't want to misquote you. They are good. I'm pretty sure you said that branston beans were your favorite i'm i'm actually a hundred percent that's really bad sorry that gives you an identity crisis that'd be really like i didn't say that i would be annoyed i'm pretty sure she did um and congratulations on

the birth of your new child um most beautiful name go on i i think i can i mean she she's on instagram i can definitely say most beautiful yeah name of a child i've ever heard suddenly we're talking about baby i feel so like oh god let's be careful be nice yeah most beautiful name i've heard um ren like the bird w-r-eE-N. I know someone called Wren, yeah. So, so beautiful. Yeah, lovely. So congrats, Pippin. Big congratulations. Big congratulations.

And congrats on having amazing taste. Yeah, on the Branston beans. In names and in beans. Yeah. All the important things. No, I urge everyone to try a Branston bean because I really do actually stand by this i will i'll try them i'm just such a cheapskate with beans i think i'll go for like they are expensive though

i don't think a baked bean is like a cheap well this is the problem though so for the heinz beans yeah i believe with also the branston beans in the same kind of area of the sainsbury's near my house i think sainsbury's is expensive as well in general it is but there's fucking nothing else near me yeah um there used to be a little near me and it was the heyday of my life honestly um they're one pound they're one pound for a thing of fucking beans for one can for one can or you can get the sainsbury's like own brand and they're 35p yeah well that's good i'm gonna get that but did they did they taste all right they probably don't taste that good do they they're fine to me in middle they

used to be 18p for a big can i tell you what i never could have imagined this episode would start like this but i'm so happy it did same i could get oh i could go on what did i say about expanding your mind go on therapy oh you want me to go on Yeah. Or you want to move the conversation to therapy and privilege? Because I'm done with beans. Well, I thought you had a good point on therapy coming there. No, I don't. I don't. I was just going to say, should we move on to therapy and privilege?

Yeah, let's. Let's. I think a lot of it goes without saying in my mind. Like the conversation we're about to have is just like. Is irrelevant. So let's do it back to the beans. And none of that goes without saying, guys. I just think it's just like it's irrelevant so let's do it back to the beans and none of that goes out saying guys i just think it's a hundred percent i think we're all in agreement like the the dms and the question box we have on our story was unanimous it's like 100 you cannot argue with

the fact that to be able to afford therapy is a huge privilege definitely but i don't think we are gonna argue that i think we're gonna say like i think there's interesting kind of um conclusions to be drawn like when before we started before we started recording i was saying like you know you can't afford therapy therapy is a privilege but i was saying before we started recording that yeah it goes without saying therapy is a privilege and even to have an awareness of mental health and your own mental health in itself is a privilege and kind of speaks to some degree about what you've been kind of exposed to um but i was also saying like oftentimes i think there is not just the stigma but there's an inaccessibility of therapy for the least privileged people in society and i reckon the most stigma around it and oftentimes you're dealing with

the most external factors that could contribute to negative mental health so for example the um the working class have um not only just general mental health issues of being a human being but also less exposure not just to therapy but also probably less chance to get out for a fucking walk in the morning because they start work like two hours before you or um less ability to cook a nourishing meal because beans are fucking expensive and they have to only get the 30p do you know what i mean blah blah blah and i think as well like a lot of our podcasts and we go through phases but we speak a lot about therapy and i know therapy has absolutely i don't think you'll mind me saying changed both of our lives no i do not mind you saying changed the way that we changed lots of things changed the way that we see ourselves changed

the way that we deal with certain issues in our lives and blah blah blah I've had a mixture of free and paid therapy in my life I would actually say the free therapy all right let me just kick off straight with a message from someone because I'm this kind of ties in somebody said free counselors in there are free counselors in school which is great but without that i wouldn't have gotten help and i was thinking this and i was wondering so the first like therapy i ever had was in school and it was free and i wonder if i hadn't have been able to have that, how different my life would be now. And I know it would be totally different because it really shaped my understanding of, to be honest, what therapy even was and what it could do for me. And that is just not an option for so many people for an abundance of reasons, which fucked up beyond fucked up yeah like so so so

fucked up mm-hmm i wasn't yeah go on go no no i thought you're gonna no no go no i didn't i was just gonna say something because i thought you weren't gonna say something but then you started saying something so then i but i was i was just gonna say something because i thought maybe you weren't gonna say something but it was nothing good. No, that's fine. Yeah, I just think, especially now, like, I think there's a big awareness. There's a big conversation. There's a big discourse around therapy online. And I think so much of the rhetoric is like, yeah, we all should be going to therapy,

get a therapist, et cetera, et cetera. And obviously so much of that is without context because that's what social media is and i don't blame anyone for giving us a neat little soundbite or like a perfect infographic that doesn't go into all of the disclaimers and like um acknowledgements of why that is layered and complex and nuanced and layered with privilege um but it is also layered and nuanced and all of those things tied up in privilege and i think where we're at this point where there's so much of a push towards wellness and mindfulness and so much of that is about therapy i just think it's really hard to feel worthy to be honest when you're being shown by society that you and your

mental health are not valued um someone said it feels like being set up to fail when most working class people can't access therapy and i think this is a good and bad not that's a good and bad thing but i think there's good and bad in the fact that a lot of working class people can still have access to social media and there are a lot of helpful resources on social media there are not that they replace therapy goes without saying but there are good um you can be exposed to new ideas new tools even like the language of it like there's so much of the language that you don't hear unless you're in groups that are also exploring mental health, things like that. For sure.

And that's why social media is great because, well, it's not great, but there are elements that are great that open you up to literally concepts. And I've got so many issues of like infographic fucking bullshit. also think i mean there's so much power in teaching fucking young women what fucking gaslighting is what fucking cbt therapy and colon why it can help on an instant it's like yeah okay things can be good and bad at the same time like there can absolutely be like a booming industry that is capitalizing on like selling you something that is inaccessible to you and convincing you that you need something that you can'tible to you and convincing you that you need something that you can't afford for example and not because they want to help your mental health but because you need help with your mental health but then there's also yeah like so much

education in that and i also like i don't know if we've had this conversation before, but I have like a bit of an annoyance about, I don't know. I think there's like people make arguments about like, about kind of infographics or just like Instagram feminism, Instagram communism, all of these things. And say that it is kind of diminishing the substance or like undermining the concepts but I also think that is a really exclusivist and like elitist and classist perspective to have it's a really um privileged position to have I think that you can look at uh what's her name Florence Given and be annoyed that she is telling young women about feminism because you think she's reducing it down to something cute and and sellable obviously it's nuanced and complex but making something accessible and understandable to people who never

would have had this never would have been exposed to this otherwise is really powerful I think it's not all bad it just can't all be bad it just isn't and I do think there's a classist element to it where you're looking at essentially the younger generation learning things like learning things off of a TikTok for example yes there are problems with that but it's really powerful it's really empowering for a lot of people and it can be a really good stepping stone into further research completely agree i think it's even just like a dated view because something's on social media it is instantly void yeah i don't think actually it doesn't even have to be anti-feminist or it doesn't even have to be sorry not anti-feminist it doesn't even have to be classist or any of these things it's also about preferring the bbc to youtube exactly and because

you're traditionalist you might have an understanding you've studied fucking feminism and your fucking academic text but because something is in pink writing and because something is a tiktok and it's a girl in a fucking car talking about something just on their way back from their shift at fucking wherever um somehow that undermines the content but it's actually like this doesn't need to be there's something like less official about it it's like who wrote that it was a girl in her bedroom or who wrote that it was a fucking um it's a it's a blog post whatever the fuck it's gonna be um and i do think it's just almost like that's how information is spread now you don't

need to get it published in a journal or any of this stuff and yeah so many issues with misinformation all of this but i just think it's quite dated it's like that's actually the view that the i think the older people in my people in my life would have of like totally um like kind of instagram is not a good way to get your news it's like well that's where people that's why they're hanging out well they're learning a lot of things so if we can teach them some good things as well then that would be nice that's where people are also like well i think you're the idiot for trying to draw comparison between yeah a girl making a tiktok in her car and 20th century feminist literature yeah who's the dummy here i don't think it's that poor girl on tiktok i'm sure she's saying some things that aren't true

but it's a gatekeeping but maybe then we should instead of undermining the people making the content we should be doing more to teach people about how they receive information and critically thinking and how to engage with receiving concepts online yeah like is it the problem with the person making the content or is it that none of us have been well a lot of people haven't been properly taught how to differentiate between fucking bullshit online and conspiracy theories and fucking nonsense and the truth? Just personal little gripe.

I have. I have a little gripe. It annoys me. It annoys me. ACAST powers the world's best podcasts. Here's a show that we recommend. Nature. I've got a

gay rooster named Francois. Is so gay. These rams are gay. I'm studying gay animals. Does that mean I'm gay? So why don't more people know this? I'm Owen Ever. I'm Lane gay animals. Does that mean I'm gay? So why don't more people know this? I'm Owen Ever. I'm Lane Kaplan-Levinson. And this is a field guide to gay

animals. A podcast about queerness in the natural world. The animal kingdom is queer. And we are a part. Find a field guide to gay animals on Spotify, Apple, or wherever you get your podcasts. Acast helps creators launch, grow, and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast.com

I also think, sorry, just going back to what we were saying before, the stigma around mental health and just the awareness of mental health is definitely dealt with differently in terms of class, obviously. Yeah. Someone also put this really perfectly. They said queer slash POC may have a harder time finding a therapist that understands them therapists are largely white so it's a privilege to be able to easily find one to connect with which i also think just ties into the idea that because of class and because of the fact that you are just more likely to be better educated and given stronger opportunities and pushed further in life if you look a certain way or have certain background etc etc or have social a certain socio-political economic status you are more likely than to be a therapist for

example yeah so then people can't relate to you that actually that need fucking therapy totally totally and i actually felt really bad because i had i was lucky enough to have a therapist who wasn't white probably like a year or two ago but she's no longer a therapist now but i felt bad because people were asking me no what's she doing now but she's taking a break okay she's on a spasticle she's had a whole crazy life i put her off i took her to the pits and left her there um yeah she was great but it's definitely a struggle but i was also this is the point that i was gonna make earlier and again we'll separate this from privilege i think but sometimes so if we pull it right down to its roots and again we've all been there when you

i think a lot of people i don't want to make this sound like I'm pointing fingers but I do think it's a fair comment go on so I'm saying this I'm saying this with love guys I think sometimes look it's no there's no denying and I'll speak just from a UK perspective the NHS is obviously not in a good way right now and mental health we don't do enough to support mental health for people in this country especially young people I think in this country where if you fucking call your doctor and say hi i'm really not doing well you could be on a waiting list for oh god knows how long you could be you could be on a waiting list for a really really really long time and in that time you're really like left to your own devices of how you know what are you gonna do, they might give you a fucking YouTube video or two in the meantime, but you're really on your own until you get picked up

by someone, until the resources are available to you through the NHS. That being said, I also think, and I don't know if I just think this is a working class issue because I'm looking in my circle, but I think a lot of of people I think because there is such a long waiting list and because it's so much hassle sorting it out in the UK through the NHS and whatever that can be that it ends up being a real deterrent for people to even bother in the first place definitely and I think a lot of that is it's not even the waiting list that's put you off because you're not even on the waiting list it is the hassle and you know dealing with it but i think it's also dealing with the stigma because i think a lot of our generation think i don't have

a stigma attached moment to help i listen to go start the same podcast where they're insane every week and they're talking about x y z and blah blah i think a lot of us think that we don't feel shame or like that we're kind of comfortable talking about it but i think oftentimes there is a there is the reality of it can be really really daunting to like pick up the phone or like send an email off or whatever or sort out with your gp getting on a waiting list for something because it's a hard thing to do first of all but also because you're just told from birth that you just need to get on with things and again it's a very British episode but especially in the UK I think it's just stiff upper lip vibes and just get on with it and it's a real weakness to have any emotion other than just being kind of nonchalant about things i also think there's

a weird thing with the waiting list idea that it's almost like people don't want to call acknowledge their issues say i'm depressed for example and they say okay cool now we're in a waiting list um yeah here's a leaflet and a youtube video hang up the phone suddenly you're left in that's yeah you're gonna volunteer yourself in your bedroom dealing with that phone call you've now acknowledged to yourself to potentially people around you or just to another human being that you're not coping and okay well we're gonna leave you in that for four months now i think that is part of it that it's like okay well if i just keep it under lock and key in my mind i never say it out loud i never say it um then it's then i can just move around my life with it but it's

this idea that if you say it out loud and then you have to wait it doesn't seem fucking doable if you can't then just pay a bit of money and have someone else come and fucking sort it out sooner if you're stuck in that like right okay now i just have to fucking sit in my misery essentially until what someone comes and saves me? Because, I mean, the reality is, it's like, even when you get it, there's no guarantee that it's fucking helping. It's going to be right for you and et cetera

and blah, blah, blah, yeah. So to even try it out is fucking three months down the line. For sure. I would say get yourself on a waiting list anyway. Definitely. If you've been looking for a sign to get you to pick up the phone and try and book an appointment and blah, blah, blah. try and fit it in today yeah just just try and make the

first move it is also quite crazy the phone call like i had never oh it's intense i'd never had like an nhs phone call for therapy like i've only ever had paid therapy um but i was at uni and i never and i was gonna have like counseling at school but i just never did i was probably just being a brat and like i don't need it but like i had never had like a like an nhs phone therapy but i had one like to like the assessment thing like a few was it a few weeks ago it was in the middle of our we were recording and they called me back but i was like i was like right okay i need to get on a fucking waiting list for like body dysmorphia blah blah blah and one of the questions they asked like I know it's the fucking NHS and

we fucking love the NHS goes without saying but it's literally like it was just quite a crazy question that I got asked I think it was one of them that was like um or it's not a crazy crazy question but it's a crazy question considering the wait time for therapy and the question was what stops you from taking your own life and i remember just being quite taken aback like oh my god like i've never thought of it and i think my answer was i've just never been sad enough like i've never thought of it because i'm lucky in that way but it was just like it's then a bit crazy i think to then hang up the phone and i'm luckily in a privileged enough position that I can then be like, fuck, okay, I need therapy.

I need to fucking pay someone 50 quid for an hour. But for people that can't, it's like now you're in your fucking bedroom. Someone's just asked you, what stops you from taking your own life? If you don't have an answer for that, that's a really, really vulnerable place that a professional person has put you. Well, I don't know who answer for that that's a really really vulnerable place that a professional person

has put you well i don't i don't know who this person was i don't know if it was the receptionist a therapist i have no fucking idea they're just reading questions but i just honestly thought god that is such an irresponsible question to ask i think it's an irresponsible question to ask considering then that person has to wait for three months to see anyone so i think that question informs where you go in terms of a waiting list i think it does as well but i think almost the urgency with what the reply could be could be like they need to see you now sort of thing like you need to be incoming in tomorrow but i just don't see that happening i think um depending on your response they give you a different answer but also like all of the

I've done a few different like volunteering things throughout my life for like mental health things like and crisis like things like that and one of the main things that they say which I actually think is really good is and I think I might have said this on the podcast before but i don't know is to not be around the bush about like self-harm and suicide yeah because if someone is suicidal you don't need to worry about like making them feel awkward by asking them if they're suicidal basically that the easiest the best thing you can do is say are you suicidal are you making plans to kill yourself that's really interesting yeah but i think that's a different question though i think that's a different question because i think they'd already asked i think there was like a whole load of

questions they ask you before they say um have you ever thought about suicide have you they they first i think say have you ever considered self-harm and have you ever self-harmed when was the last time you self-harmed then they ask about suicide and then they say why don't you not like that why don't you go it was that it was what stops you and then she said what do you think because i was like wait what and then she was like so what do you think about that stops you and i was literally like what a strange phrasing almost that was her explaining it to you the question was what stops you and then she clarified yeah the question is what stops you and then she said yeah what do you think about like what do you what have you thought of that yeah i just thought i don't know what i would

how i would have felt if i didn't have an answer to that yeah yeah i think those phone calls just are really hard yeah they are i think they can be really they're very confronting i think but made double as hard like it would be what it would be a completely completely completely different thing if it was here's the fucking assessment that we do and the following week you come in and we fucking if you respond to that question with like i don't know i'm suicidal right now there's nothing really stopping me they avert you to crisis line they avert you to someone closer to you something local okay some sort of um place but it kind of just almost felt like a person reading

off list a list and they hang up and it's almost like oh god i don't know how people would feel they've got a set of questions for sure like it just almost felt absolutely crazy to do that and then be like okay so the waiting list is six months it's like okay yeah yeah yeah and i think that's why it's so hard i think that's why it's so fucking hard because like no one fucking gives a shit and i don't mean like the person asking the questions i mean like they're being put in a difficult position because what boris johnson doesn't want because of a tory government exactly do i mean because of like 10 15 years of austerity yeah um which is why it's so frustrating and i know that like we i think there are a few episodes where in the heat of our therapy and we're like get a therapist

get a therapist and i think listening to this kind of content and stuff can make you really like shit i really want a therapist i really need one blah blah blah and i just think it's like oh it's just annoying that you won't be there's just there's probably i don't know your life but there might only be a certain set there might not be basically you there are certain things that won't be accessible to you and i would want them to be accessible to you and that is just annoying um yeah but i also think let's kind of make use of what we've got in terms of i don't know like pushing ourselves into spaces that we can benefit from and also anything basically that we have responsibility and control over trying to use it because i'm not waiting around for boris to give a shit about me oh you'll be waiting you'll be waiting until you're dead like you'll

be waiting until it kills you it's crazy okay i like this message and it's going to lead me into a question for you surprise surprise oh lovely um somebody said as someone who needs therapy but can't afford it expecting everyone to be able to fix quote unquote fix their mental illness with therapy is irrational and it kind of got me thinking about how basically kind of what we've been saying it just got me thinking of what do we do then what do we do if therapy is inaccessible to you what do we do and I'm kind of obviously gonna I think take everything with a pinch of salt. You should, not me. But I think I'm just personally going to speak from the heart and speak very anecdotally because I think that's all we can do.

In the sense that I don't think you lot are naive enough to think that we are your therapists. Although I'm sure it feels like it sometimes. But I was going to ask you, Seie like what are the things that you do and if therapy could never be an option for you ever again in your life through the nhs through paid whatever what are some non-negotiables for you and i don't mean like in an ideal world i mean like it's something that you already have in practice that really benefits your mental health i think reading like as in oh that's a nice one no no i don't mean reading fiction books i'm not here i'm not here talking about read fucking olga dies dreaming our book club book of last month which was stunning okay

it's not a nice one then join our book clubs on patreon that's really inaccessible um but what a thing that i have found is google google the fucking issue you think you have ie for me it was body dysmorphia i google body dysmorphia fucking top therapist fucking go on youtube fucking look at fucking the videos that are on there that the people do like conferences on anxiety conferences on fucking um specific specific things like and i found like conferences conferences conferences of body dysmorphia content watch all of them i found a fucking podcast that's called um breaking bdd which is body dysmorphic disorder i found a when i was googling the therapists that were speaking at this conference i found that one of them has written a book i bought his book i think these are the fucking

resources you have you might not i'm never ever ever in my life gonna be able to afford this therapist that's speaking at this conference because it's the top i mean the top say that i'll manifest it for you don't you worry I don't even know if I want to speak to a man about it but I just feel like it's um I'm never going to be able to afford him or I it's inaccessible he lives in America but I bought his book on it there's someone else who spoke at the conference that I watched on YouTube um I had to watch it on double speed because they speak at the pace of a snail but i do think there are ways to access these people's like teachings without paying for them and yeah an eight pound book that i can buy off amazon is an accessible way for me to get all of the resources without having to hear it without having to be in

a room with him i think there are loads of ways that you can actually find find out the fucking stuff and he's talking about all this um there's also documentaries that i watched on um like literally bbc iplayer just type in the thing that you are dealing with have the thing you suspect you have and i honestly just think deep dive deep dive deep dive on it but i also think of course it's not of course it is no you watch a youtube video and you're cured overnight yeah it's no like replica is that what i want to say my brain is mush by now sorry guys this is the fourth ep of the day we've recorded um and it feels like the trickiest topic of the day but i'm happy with it um sounds like i've got a gun to your head my eye is itching as well now um i'm losing it i'm losing it help me back um there are ways that you can access the shit that you need to access which doesn't actually

mean having to get on the fucking phone get on zoom with um doctor blah blah blah but you can access the more famous they are the more like the more successful they are likely the more famous they are and you can fucking get their shit online you've probably already seen versions of their teachings on fucking printer pinterest quotes and shit like that literally yeah yeah so i think it's just for me it's been getting quite serious with myself about like okay so my therapist that i used to have costs fucking a hundred pounds i met her when she was a trainee and it was like and now she's just got better and better because she's just incredible and now she's like 100 pounds for 50 minutes that's absolutely out of the question for me so it was more about okay well

maybe i can't get an nhs thing or maybe i can find another trainee somewhere in london blah blah blah um but i think it's been really really serious being quite serious with myself about like okay so you have this thing it's wrecking your life um let's fucking buy some books like how would i how would i um intellectually approach this approach something else if i had to get um a good fucking mark in an exam i would read books i would watch videos i would listen to podcasts okay well let's fucking let's fucking beat the fucking thing that's getting you down through your mind yeah hasn't worked so far but i'm still reading still listening still watching it is working it is working i'm getting a lot better than i would be if i um wasn't doing

those things also i think it's about being smart in terms of i don't know if i have these kind of like tools from the previous therapy i've had but like or even like um things i learned from those videos that i watched and if you're if you also struggle with body dysmorphia i reckon it's just like body dysmorphia conference honestly type that in and there are weird it's like weird it's like there's body dysmorphia influencers and things like that there's a fucking shit ton of stuff like when you go in you go in and like yeah then you can just write it all down in your notes so you've got it accessible and just keep going to it that's my only tips really yeah i also think people like people often say things to us as well and i've definitely had this feeling in therapy of being

like okay but i know all of this shit so why is it not changing anything or like i think you can get that through reading books and looking at the conference and blah blah and researching but i also think you can get that in a therapy session you can be talking back to them saying like you're not giving me new this is not new info to me i know this i can understand this and i can rationalize it so what is changing and I actually think a part of that is understanding that by that's through you learning and understanding it is changing and I think sometimes we think that getting better or progress is going to feel or look different like be or look a different way or feel a certain way and that's not necessarily true

because i do think by understanding it you might feel like okay but i know that when i'm dealing with x y and z i do a b and c and that is because of my x y and z and i just need to blah blah blah but i think a lot of the time people are like but what's the tangible way that I can put that into practice? And I think it's like, you just did. Yeah. I actually think there's a lot of action in the thought itself. That's really nice. Yeah, I completely agree. Because it's just a habit of thought.

Yeah. You're just getting into the habit of changing the way that you're thinking about something. And totally, like, there will be a lot of things working against that. Like, medication might be something to look into you might still just need therapy etc etc but i think sometimes we get into a rut a quote-unquote rut um you might just watch a few youtube videos of how i get out of a rut reset routine bless you how i get out of a funk yeah exactly um i think sometimes we get into these cycles where we feel really stagnant it's like i'm i know all of this shit and i'm still feeling i'm still fucked and it's blah blah

nothing's working and all of these things there's nothing tangible that you can hold on to and make like physical change and i actually think the thought itself is the change is physical change it just feels fucking exhausting and it just feels like a real fucking drag to be honest oh my god the biggest drag well because it's almost like okay so i've read the stuff okay when does that when does it start changing when when when is the come on like why did i still have a breakdown after reading it it's like well because the reading isn't the fix like it's slowly slowly slowly it is it's so slow and that's i think that's part of the thing that's so um i guess that intersects with privilege is you need the

fucking time you need a lot of fucking time because it's fucking slow it's kind of okay so you pay for the um six sessions or whatever it is you fucking pay for that at the end of the sixth it's not the there's not okay brilliant i see you in six years mate full stop let's see how you get with that yeah it's um now you need another fucking six and another fucking six it's not um it's not a fucking little full stop at the end of it like you're cured you did the end of the course is your certificate but it does something that i really is i've seen things that i used to struggle with now can still be an issue for me. But I have fixed that problem, for example, through, for example, therapy. But also through my own, like, discipline, for example, over it.

And through really fucking trying. And it's like, I can see the difference. I do know the difference over, like, ten years. And it's something that I can reflect on. It's something that my friends can see a change in it it does happen which is nice yeah it doesn't also doesn't necessarily require therapy not at all do you have any things that you do like other than therapy that like if yeah if you couldn't have therapy all of that what are your tools that you do there are a ton of things i think one of them is think about who you are spending time with is a good

one i don't think we've really touched on that that much yeah it was kind of fresh doesn't it fresh exciting take from something yeah i think um there's a ton of things but that's one of them i think is having the awareness of like who you're going to be spending time with is going to impact the way that you feel. Like, obviously, it's your own or it's my own responsibility to my actions and my emotions and all of these things. It's no one else's problem. It's mine, for sure. And I don't think it's about like blaming someone else for putting you in a bad mood or making you feel a certain way you can definitely be really reactive

but I think it's naive to like not be able to acknowledge that other people have an impact on the way that you feel for sure especially if you spend a lot of time with them or they're really close to you or they have a lot of access to you or you're in kind of you know sometimes you get into a pattern with someone where like your relationship looks a certain way like you might have a relationship where it just looks like them i don't know saying things to you that you don't like and that's just how the relationship looks i mean you're just in that routine of they think that's acceptable and you show them that it's acceptable by establishing your boundaries for example and you show them that it's acceptable by not establishing your boundaries for example and still seeing them and those sorts of things i think that's really

shitty like i yeah i just always feel better though when i know i always feel better when i'm around like people that i love people that i have a good relationship with like do you know what i mean i think it makes a big difference yeah i think it's for me it's people that i trust not to push their issues on me because i think it's there's an acceptance within i think it's our generation and acceptance within the people i know and love anyway that it's like we're all a bit fucked up like Like we've all got very specific anxieties and little triggers and hooks. And we all accept that

if something fucking triggers you one day, you might go, wow, you're a fucking bitch. You might do a little, you might snap. And that's okay as long as it always comes down to, I'm really sorry. I was triggered in that moment. I'm so fucking sorry. And I think there's a very different thing.

I think what's really important to me is just like an acknowledgement of this is my this is my fucking shit and it's not going to come on you and if it's not gonna he's not do not worry he's not gonna come on you all over your face but it's almost like don't fucking worry it's when things start bleeding out it's when it starts bleeding out onto like it's okay for like a momentary lapse we're all fucking human but i'm not having the slow fucking bleed of everyone's issues becoming everyone else's issues i can't do that it needs to be um this is my don't like don't worry this is my shit and we can all talk about it it's all fine we can all have our moments but i'm not having someone else kind of push their project issues on or like anxieties issues whatever on me because it's like the life is just

hard enough for everyone insecurities yeah no yeah that's bad that's when someone has an insecurity and when you hang out with them you realize that you're also developing that insecurity yeah that's really um fucked up painful for everyone involved because the person doesn't want to be pushing their insecurities and the person doesn't want to be absorbing their insecurities as well it's horrible i think sometimes people do think they want to be projecting their insecurities do you know what i mean it's not just that sometimes they're not just accidentally putting you down sometimes they're intentionally putting you down but even if they are intentionally they don't want to be doing like i just genuinely think

they don't know not in the deepest like kindness of their heart it's like they just can't help it almost but i think day to day people are like fuck that bitch i want to put her down yeah because i feel like shit which is fucked up there was a thing i don't know where i saw it do you know what could be a tiktok could be infographic this is why it's all important someone i saw somewhere although it probably was not one of those i don't know um it was someone saying that whenever someone's like it might be obvious but it kind of blew me blew me away slightly that however anyone feels and they're trying to hurt someone else or they say something mean or whatever they're doing or they do something mean, they are trying to make them feel the emotion that they are feeling. So if somebody is feeling lonely, one of like a really common response to that is to try and make someone else feel lonely. Or if someone is feeling angry, they want to make someone else feel angry.

If someone's feeling insecure, they want to make someone else feel angry if someone's feeling insecure they want to make someone else feel insecure so if someone's making you feel a certain way it's quite likely that that person is also feeling like that totally totally i never really thought of that like i almost thought like if someone's making me feel shit you might assume that they feel kind of good or they feel yeah yeah they felt good from doing that or something like that but of course they don't yeah it comes from security um but i just thought it's interesting in terms of like if you feel um jealous you want someone else to feel jealous like you what you want to put the emotion on that person just to make them feel what you feel and was i going anywhere with that

who knows no i think that's the perfect point. Maybe that was the end. The brain is diminishing. The brain cells are dying off. The dropping note flies. By the second. No, I think that's the perfect point. Good. I don't think... I think that was half of the point, but the other half has eluded me. We can give you a second.

Do you want to think? I don't think I'm capable of thought. I'm bothered. She can't be bothered. All right, let's go. Okay. Well, do we want to say anything else like that's not the end is it is it not i guess we're on 50 minutes almost yeah we're getting there okay so maybe we're done bloody hell yeah all in a day's work oh my god fuck me okay let's hope i'm just chilling on a beach somewhere you're in lisbon living it up oh let's hope so let's fucking hope so yeah if not honestly i'm just chilling on a beach somewhere you're in lisbon living it up oh let's hope so

let's fucking hope so yeah if not honestly i would just take my bed like that sounds great as well what are your thoughts on this episode bit unsure what my thoughts on the episode um i think it's just almost can't be trusted right now just a bit tired i think it's good not too sure i think it's good i think it's been good i think it's good yeah yeah i think it's good i think it's been good i think it's good yeah yeah i think it's good i think it's a good combo yeah so do i because i think it's just a bit like look we talk about self-help and all of that shit all the time and i just want to really take a moment just let it have its proper moment to emphasize that so much of this conversation is wrapped up in privilege and our emphasis is always just we want you to be able to do what you can any way that we can help oh my god let us know start saying please be of service jesus whatever

you need we will bend over backwards obviously um but like for real like obviously we talk about this shit all the time so just want to make sure that everyone is aware that it's a fucked up issue you know and it's super complex life is yeah it's so funny it's a joke goes out saying cool what are you gonna do now well well well here we are at the end of the episode we're at the end of our episode we're at the end of the working day for us well i've got some shit to do actually have you oh god yeah for our merchandise let's not go back there oh yeah of course you got to go in and fix some things and i also want to get the back end like all of the assets looking good but it's fine assets i love when you say assets like when things have been arriving

you've been like i've got i want the assets in front of me you've said and i've thought whoa we're professional jesus christ no assets yeah you like that oh there's more where that came from bloody hell do we have assets we have assets of course we do anyway assets yeah oh my god so stunning okay well the assets are the least of the fucking worries oh i just hope you guys are okay. Hopefully everyone bought our merch. For us, the merch still hasn't come out yet. I don't know where, I don't know what time, where you are right now.

I don't know what time this is for you. Hope you're well though. Oh, hope you're having a great time. Thanks for bearing with us. I just got to the end and was like, just dump all of the other shit in there. Just like, just start chatting with them. Just start chatting shit really.

Did this episode start with us talking about baked beans yeah was that this episode bloody hell that feels like a lifetime ago it's a real banger of an episode i hope it's been enjoyable for everyone to listen to it just gets better and better from there on really yeah it really does okay right get me out of here before i fuck this whole thing up yeah it's yeah let's let's leave let's cut while we're ahead it's pushing it now yeah we're not ahead it's the seconds past it gets worse yeah we're no longer ahead so let's stop now it's also the kind of thing that in editing i'll be like god just fucking finish the episode oh my god i do that so much when we get when i

think when we're recording that we add like a little funny bit at the end then when it's editing it's like idiots, idiots. Oh, it's so annoying. I thought the end was two minutes ago. Oh. Cool. Right. If you don't hear from us.

I seem the worst.