Goes Without Saying - this doesn't go without saying #4

Episode Date: November 29, 2021

sex, friendship, uni, rejection and everything in between… once again, sephy & wing should’ve just kept quiet. this episode of Goes Without Saying is filled with all the raw chaos and intimate details to make you feel seen. join the conversation every monday.speak your mind on the @sephyandwing instagram!you’re invited to our discord group chat: https://discord.gg/DwxFc6CVkz Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

ACAST powers the world's best podcasts. Here's a show that we recommend. Nature. I've got a gay rooster named Francois. Is so gay. These rams are gay. I'm studying gay animals. Does that mean I'm gay?

So why don't more people know this? I'm Owen Ever. I'm Lane Kaplan-Levinson. And this is a field guide to gay animals. A podcast about queerness in the natural world. The animal kingdom is queer and we are a part. Find a field guide to gay animals on Spotify, Apple. Or wherever you get your podcasts.

Acast helps creators launch, grow, and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast.com I'm Wing. And I'm Sefi. And this episode, once again, is everything that does not go without saying all of the things that need to be said, all of your unanswered questions. Definitely bringing some manic energy into this episode, but what's new? Thank you so much for listening. I think you're going to love it. God, I really hope you love it. Nice. Wow, so we're back. We are back. We didn't go anywhere, I guess. We feel like we're back as whole new people. Should we explain why? Yeah go on and you might have even noticed there may have been a little Sky TV has bought you a little something before the app. Yeah god knows what's going on. So honestly I'm in the pits but like if the pits were good I'm in the pits. Yeah yeah.

The punchline is Sephie and i've just been crying over getting literally 30 quid um but the long story full tears full tears down our faces the long story is that we had a bit of a chaotic week of trying to get ads put on the podcast we i just also want to say we have nothing, it's quite bad actually, we have nothing to do with the ads. Don't blame us if they're shit. Yeah, God knows what you're hearing. But like they're chosen by our, it all of a sudden sounds so official,

it's chosen by our hosting provider. Which is basically just a website that we upload the podcast to. Yeah, it's going to be like Burger King and stuff, which obviously we absolutely wholeheartedly stand behind um love the meat production of burger king so yeah you're gonna be hearing ads i mean i get like if you want to i get it i get it but if you feel like giving us a christmas present then just listen to the ads it is just quite exciting because we really didn't we haven't put ads on the podcast we've held out for a long time obviously yeah

we didn't put them on yeah yeah we could held out for a long time obviously yeah we didn't put them on yeah yeah we could have obviously put them on a long time ago and we chose not to and i just think we are so fucking poor we actually need some money there's no there's no nice way of putting it there is no nice way of putting it that it's like i do need to pay my rent i mean the crux first crux is yeah if you don't want us to get evicted and just i mean yeah the first crux is i can't tell you how much this means to us well this is why we held out for so long because like does it dampen the content somehow to have like hi guys before us going in crying does that make a difference it really is us crying and then i

was kind of thinking about like do we really want to choose the advert but then i was just almost thinking about like would i not watch a tv show that i love because there's an advert for fucking bullshit before it and it's like i'm so sorry if there are bullshit adverts now i would skip them and to be fair you're in your rights to skip them absolutely just thank you for being here i think that's all but it just makes it just makes it more sustainable we've been working out a way to try and make this more sustainable emotionally and financially for quite a long time now and this is just one way in which it's like okay no we could not be scrimping for pennies every day i really really feel like we're on a

group journey the same yeah like we all like you guys didn't know what was happening but we all just like jumped off a cliff together holding hands like you've got no idea what's going on but we're dragging you off into a new land well we kind of just said did we just complete maybe level one just something i look we could go on all day but the crux of it is if our calculations are correct which honestly by god i hope they are more than anything it's kind of grandpa joe it's like oh we're rich we're rich depression never heard of her never been suicidal before what's ptsd nope cancelled um this could be a real it's just a really nice it just feels very very nice it really does and it also feels really really annoying because i get that they're annoying but also guys come on unfortunately we live in a fucking shit capitalist world but it does also

and it's sad that this actually makes things nice but it is nice to get paid for something that you feel is really real rather than getting paid for something that you feel is bullshit selling out yeah and i hope this is oh god i hope it isn't selling out that makes me feel really bad no i think it's selling out if we ditch the podcast and end up doing something that we don't give a shit about but unfortunately we do live in a fucking arsehole capitalist world where we do need to make a little bit of money at some point yeah that would be nice but also oh fuck what was i gonna say probably something meaningless hang on also like for this to be sustainable is i've said this before i don't know if i've ever said it on the podcast but it's interesting the types of brands like this is really nice because a cast

can handle things for us like our host can handle things for us and it's just we're getting paid basically for the podcast in and of itself rather than being judged on like how who we are like you know like it's not an influencer thing we're not working with anyone yeah it's not a a like network or like contrived thing which i think feels nice well it's not thing we're not working with anyone yeah it's not a a like networky or like contrived thing which i think feels nice well it's not us saying guys did you know that burger king have bought out a new vegan whopper which also we might we have said that look if burger king come knocking not come knocking i'm down also we have even said that unpaid before yeah yeah meant every word every last bite the type of brands that we would want to work with

i've said this to you seffy before and i've said it to everyone in my personal life anyone who will hear me the types of brands that we would want to work with are all about empowering women empowering women but their whole business model is based on exploiting young women who are working online and creating all this content and blah blah so this is just a really really nice sustainable way for us to just keep doing exactly what we're doing and delivering you the exact same stuff without anything forced or we don't have to be like so we're doing our favorites now and it just so happens that number three is this tampon brand that have paid us to say it we're not having to do anything like not that we would but you get what we mean but anyway just feels really good but that's the norm with like sponsored content.

It's like, it's just woven in. And also that is a skill within itself. And that is just the way that kind of vlogging and stuff has gone. It's just not where we are right now. It's just quite nice to be able to, at the moment, deliver literally probably tears and crying and screaming and chaos and Harry Potter stuff.

And then fucking Amazon, whatever Steve, what's his name? Jeff, but Jeffrey Bezos. Jeffrey Bezos.os puts his little bit of money on it yeah thanks jeff you're an arsehole but thanks yeah fuck you but fuck you but fucking thanks for 2p maybe look we're already being controversial but anyway the adverts get taken off straight away basically just if you've been listening to them thank you so much and it just i mean i don't it hasn't really

been a secret how much Steffi and I've doubted this whole thing and like yeah really had to cry through years doing it yeah so it just it feels nice to have like some sort of establishment put some value on it just in its core for exactly what it is and us not have to do any silly songs and dances to try and convince anyone yeah don't need to prove anything and just let the podcast speak for itself honestly i'm in bits because also up until literally the moment we logged on just before recording i was literally like i honestly think we're going to be sitting at zero like don't get your hopes up we're just gonna like trust me i just got no hope for pretty much anything anymore really great

business partner I was like don't get your hopes up she's manifesting really good things for me well my vision boards look like we're gonna be millionaires but my my actual reality I said to Sefi before we started recording when I was in my depths of despair not that long ago Sefi sent me a really nice message and also like I wasn't speaking well i was people like checking in on me which is really quite horrible but so lovely of them honestly and seffy once sent me like just one day sent me a message saying like don't have to reply but i just want you to know like i've made a vision board and like there's some amazing things coming for you just really and i felt so sad because like god i can't even muster up a like a really you know not a genuine

reply but you don't have to it was just for you to know but it was the most meaningful thing yeah now I think about it every day quite sad that my vision boards are just planning other people's lives it's like no no can you not put that on your vision board please I didn't actually want that no no I'm oh I'm all over it yeah you're all over mine goes without saying joint life goes without saying oh so should we do some questions now that everyone's bored of the advert chat i know and now i'm actually going to come in with an advert not even an advert but i just want to shout something out that you and i both love oh okay burger king i've got a new vegan burger these tampons i'm using at the moment are amazing. There is, I know we've spoken about this on the Instagram, but I know we wanted to say this on the podcast

just so it's out there forever, that my favorite YouTube channel these days. Oh, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. Goes without saying is. Do they know it's coming or do they know it's coming? No, they don't know it's coming. The funny thing is they think they've manifested this. They did. And maybe they did, my favorite youtube channel of all of all time

maybe not of all time sorry but my favorite youtube channel these days is em and lauren yeah you have to honestly just leave this episode here it's dumb anyway and go and type into youtube em and lauren two most stunning girls you've ever seen, hit subscribe. Hit smash that like button, but subscribe to them. Just wait for a new video to come up,

stock up on their old vids. I've never been more, I mean, I'm doing some sort of gesture with my arms, but. She's kind of got her arms on the cross right now.

She's Jesus. Jesus Christ. It's just so, I've never been more relaxed. i've never been more relaxed i've never been more just like peaceful it's just they're just very comforting vlogs they're naturals on camera i have to say absolutely absolutely i think they were the sort they so they messaged us and said guys like we mentioned you in a in a vlog we obviously went straight there because our ego's out out of control went straight to their thing to their channel and we just couldn't stop watching because it's just something so um hypnotizing about them that it's like oh i want to see you drink your coffee oh i want to see what you're doing today they have a great rapport i just

really really love them very much bought in on their lives i was like oh i was watching and they were like just watching their lives i thought god i need to make my life a bit more like your life yeah it's a bit silly but just so um it just to me it's content that is going to make me feel good so i reckon it's going to make a lot of you feel just quite comforted and just like seen connected just your pals online you know em and lauren go look it up so that's there we go that's all i wanted to say i have nothing else to say for this episode yeah we've been wanting to mention them for quite a while now so good thing that you got that in early i've been thinking about it all day because i was watching their vid this morning anyway god have

you i've been thinking about our 38 pounds 30 that we just done thinking what am i gonna buy up to the price of 38 pounds 30 that's the thing it's like as if we're fucking millionaires let's make it clear we're not coming to you as people that have any amount of substantial money we're still very much poor girls that tells you how bad it's been that we're really we cried we shed tears 38 pounds 30 how insane That we've got to split two ways by the way. That's the real sucker. That's the real kick in the teeth. Oh my goodness. Oh fuck okay. I screenshot quite a few um things by the way. Beautiful do you want to just go straight in? No? Yes. Um oh my god well one that I screenshotted was when was the last time you both cried should we just say oh just now just now over the 38 pounds 30 let's just do that one right now

i did also have a big cry yesterday oh yeah you said um not even that big actually yeah it wasn't really a big cry it was more like i've been over i've just been really like panicked because we've just been honestly just going back and forth i haven't stopped sending emails and i know stirring people so it's just been a stressful time so i had a nice cry yesterday and honestly went to bed at 7 p.m that's so nice because i'm relatable relatable queen it's actually unrelatable it's like so early and so depressed that it's not relatable but anyway no no i went to bed at um like do you remember that night when i was like oh god i just really want to sleep i really want to sleep and you're like i think you should go to bed like it sounds a bit like you want to sleep like why are you not going to sleep but you keep texting me saying you want to go to

sleep yeah like why are you holding out on this you're like edging sleep i really was you're like microdosing it's so weird i really want to sleep. Ha ha ha ha. It's like, just do it then. What about this one? Someone asked two questions. I just quite love this. Let's just start it off sexy. Oh God.

They said, what to do when you think you're bad at sex? And they also asked how to have more sexual confidence. I hate that. I hate it. I have a little bit of a story about my crazy old neighbor who, thank God, I've moved away from. What? But I've just, just reminded me oh god yeah yeah he was an absolute fucking i hated him so much i would always always always give him evil looks but i also was a bit scared that he would murder me so i did have to keep the evil looks at a minimum he's quite a violent man

yeah he was definitely like so him and his girlfriend lived below us and we could hear them kind of arguing all the time and she went out one night and i heard all his him and his like mates in the garden having like a bit of a party and she wasn't there and he was saying like oh she's so insecure in bed like she thinks she's really good but like she's so insecure it just made me so fucking angry because you just know what that sex is with him just like being so violent and just almost like wanking into her yeah just literally just wanking into her doesn't even know what a clit is at all and she's now seen as insecure in bed it just pisses me off when all she's doing is just trying to please you and all you're trying to do is just please yourself i'm sorry ozzy don't

do that ozzy don't do whatever you're doing i can't see you he's scratching at the sofa he's trying to dig in that he's trying to dig a hole in the sofa so he can bury himself into it because he likes to burrow under things but he's too dumb to realize yeah he doesn't know well it's like he's it's like you're not breaking into the sofa until oh my god you've scratched into the sofa yeah what's the advice i just feel like the amount that girls would worry about being bad at sex like the amount that girls would worry about being bad at sex and the amount that boys would worry about being bad at sex must be there must be such a disparity is that the word between those numbers like i would love to see an amount that women worry about like their performance i'd love to see 38 pounds 30 who the numbers of who is feeling bad

about sex men yeah we know you worry about dick size is such a huge thing around men but i also think oh i guess men do have performance like anxiety they do but it comes from a different place it's so much around like body image and things like that and being sexy enough for the man to find you hot enough and also like even if a man like can't get a boner then it is kind of flipped on like how am i sexy enough for you oh that's yeah all your fault all your fault yeah i feel like even take gender out of it i feel like the whole thing just comes down to your self-worth entirely and then i feel like that then entirely gets is completely as well could be emphasized by if you're having sexual encounters

where not only do you have low self-worth and you feel bad about yourself but you're in relationships or experiences where that's being fed back to you and you're not being given what you need yeah to help assure you and feel good about yourself do you know what i mean like if you're in some sort of entanglement with someone who's barely texting you and you know whenever you go and see them at half 11 on a weeknight you are gonna have sex with them and they're not here for them for a few days and blah blah it's the prime setting it's the prime conditions for your self-worth to be totally diminishing for insecurities to run riot and then i think of course then you'll feel like you're bad at sex you're bad at this you're bad at that i feel like it's not even about physically the sex that you're having

it's not physically about your body it's not physically about that situation it's just working on your self-worth which is spoiler alert the hardest thing you'll ever do yeah not going to be solved overnight i think when someone is not showing you attention it's almost like you use sex as the way to get that attention when actually all you want is to potentially go for dinner with them or get a text from them but you're like okay well if they touch me if they if they spoon me after sex i kind of hate the fucking word spoon spoon if they fucking touch me after sex if they kind of hug me and kind of i sleep fall asleep in their strong strong arms clutching at straws yeah then that's that

feeds actually what i wanted which was them to just to say oh my god they like me but also it feeds into what you want of you just want to feel loved you just want to feel good enough but you basically just want this person to spend time with you yeah you could wait for someone to make you feel worthy but you also need to find worthiness in yourself i know i'm being so airy fairy but it's so woo woo but that is the crap but then i do and then also just but then i but then also you're going to find just sorry sorry but then also you're going to find yourself in relationships where that's then being mirrored to you like if you have enough self-worth and self-respect and blah blah you're

not going to be getting involved in situations where that's not going to be reflected back at you because you won't be pursuing that yeah and literally entirely vicious cycle i do think that body image and stuff obviously just feeds so much into it that if you already struggle with that yeah maybe being naked is an arena where that is just going to be so heightened but also i think the difference i just noticed such a difference as someone that struggles with body image blah blah blah bullshit i definitely notice a difference in how i would feel like for example like in a bikini at the beach with my friends and then like sexually i would feel a lot more confident they become quite disconnected how you feel about your body during sex and how you feel about your body as like um a body within the patriarchal world in the world yeah and the difference between sleeping with someone that you feel like you're

constantly trying to win their affection basically you're trying to prove to them oh my god oh my god i'm i'm perfect for you like this would be really great right right pick me pick me and sleeping with someone that like potentially casually or whatever that you know that they are just purely there for the fun of it and you're there for the fun of it i definitely and you know that basically their desire for you goes without saying that is kind of i think something that really is so helpful rather than you're trying to win a relationship right maybe what you need if you're trying to build up sexual confidence is to engage in i definitely think casual sex isn't for everyone it is definitely not really something i can engage with that easily it's

interesting that that helps that that can make it better well i think there'll be a lot of people who doesn't matter who they're having it doesn't matter where they are whether they're having sex or at the beach or whatever the way they feel about their body doesn't go away because almost you don't believe that someone desires you but then i almost think it's kind of you could find small things that you could do so like i think take the pressure up there's no expectation yeah as in like if if it's gonna make if you need to base if you can kind of condition yourself or like relearn or unlearn for example if you can basically work on the sexual experiences or the sex that you're having and how comfortable you're feeling during sex by racking up a few more sexual experiences that have gone well then remove

the expectation and be like okay from you know from next time i have sex i don't have to take my top off i'm not going to and then all of a sudden when you're having sex you're not worried about it because it that's no no one expected that of you yeah do you know i mean you're setting the standard of i'm gonna engage in this in on my terms rather than fuck i have to do something that i can't do right now before you know it you're there boobs out yeah being thrown all over the place like fuck i feel horrific if you if you want to have sex within pitch whatever like yeah just set yourself up for something that is going to be more fun for you rather than setting yourself up for something

that is obviously going to be horrible for you and then feeling bad about it and then you're just in that cycle of learning and learning and learning that sex is something that is obviously going to be horrible for you and then feeling bad about it and then you're just in that cycle of learning and learning and learning that sex is something that is not good for you that's scary or even just like i'm not next time i'm in a sexual situation we're not having sex i'm just gonna do this or we can just do blah blah instead i think one of the things that people forget when they're feeling sexually insecure is that that person is having sex with them yeah it's almost like they are having sex with you think about the standards that need to be there for someone that you would have sex with they need to be someone that you sexually find hot basically yeah so they are basically telling you that they find you hot yeah you don't need to do anything else to earn

um that stamp of approval of oh i'm hot there's nothing to prove you're having sex with them like don't forget that don't think oh we're at the post office i need to convince him that i'm pretty yeah he's literally sucking your tits like you look i think he might like them it's fine i just think going to just never forget this what how you can set the standards of things all things not just sex everything what are you laughing at over there no no i'm not laughing i was just drinking looking so mischievous well i was just thinking but this isn't mischievous this is actually quite um a patriarchal thought and just a thought from from i learned this a lot at uni but there was and i've spoken about this on the podcast before but like the ways in which women see themselves

sexually in the ways that men see themselves sexually or like in life really that the man is always looking at the woman as the object of desire but the woman is looking at the man looking at her as the object of sexual desires and i think that translates so fucking much into sex that the man is looking at the woman going oh my god how fucking tits oh my god a fucking bum yeah yeah loving it yeah yeah yeah i imagine that's what's going on the woman so men actually men actually yeah i know actually um but i feel like women what is often going on the woman so men actually men actually yeah i know actually um but i feel like women what is often going on in their heads is okay so he's looking at me like that so does that mean like that does he like that like you're viewing yourself as that's why women fake orgasms that's

why women put on this huge fucking performance because you're you're performing you're not relaxing the man is there present in that, I'm speaking so generally, but the man is there in that moment is allowed to be just purely, purely in the sexual experience. The woman is feeding into, will this make him text me? Or is he looking at me right?

Does this, there's so much going on. Like I want the light off. I don't want my boobs out. I want to, this is painful. Like all of this stuff is going on. Well, how good you are at sex, especially like, i feel like the experience that i what i kind of saw with friends and just in life what i think growing up

as well at the age that we are and things like that i think the awareness of how good you were at sex is how good of a performance you can put on 100 how what they are going to say about it afterwards to their mates yeah yeah's you just you need to be the hottest you need to be a porn star which is great you need to be what you need to be the hottest 16 year old yeah bleak do you know i mean it's actually it gets quite insidious yeah but because also oh yeah it's just a bit fucked isn't it but also like it goes across it's not just i think insecurity because remember someone said before um i can't remember exactly how they put it but just the general idea that having a girl having sex with a girl

you become aware of those two bodies yeah that was so interesting and like comparison and those sorts of things i just think it kind of i'm circling back to do what you can to set what you're comfortable with rather than putting yourself through lots of situations where you're going to learn that feeling bad is what happens when you have sex 100 just take a step back before you get into a situation yeah and just think what do i actually want from this do i want to go do i want to do this do i how do i feel i think this is so crucial as well with the idea of because i do think a lot of people say oh like how so how would i improve my sexual confidence oh we'll just learn what you like watch porn um try some casual sex touch yourself maybe get a vibrator actually

just maybe think yawn yeah yawn we're not fucking 10 years ago think what do you actually want what do you actually want because if i watch porn i would feel bad it makes me feel sick what the fuck why is it lit so brightly who are these people what's going on what is the scenario here what's the narrative you don't need to do that the rules of feeling sexually empowered what do you actually find hot yeah i think that also just a part of it is like taking your time on the journey of i think it honestly is a life journey of finding your voice because i even had that like sit down to do a history essay and it's like how far did the blah blah blah do this this and this and i would think

okay well i've got this reading this reading like i'll just put these sources together blah blah it's like hang on find your voice as an historian yeah take a step back and think what do i actually think yeah and then examine okay why do i think that and find the sources that can justify my argument for example find your voice as a human being and think how do I actually feel about this person and how do I actually feel about the pub that we're going to go to and how do I actually feel about this underwear that I'm wearing and like really allow yourself to know how you feel then you can express how you feel because I think the idea of like I'll just say how you feel it's like but I just feel like I could just go on with

it like I can just go along with this and just do it it's like you haven't given yourself a chance to step back and think how do i feel that and that's it and i also think in a sexual encounter that they move very quickly they can before you know it you're lost in it you're doing something doing something you didn't really want to do and it's like oh fuck does this blur a line of does this cross a boundary i didn't want to cross you can't really plan out the script or yeah i want to do this this and this these are my boundaries because you have the boundary of oh i want to have sex with my top on and before you know it you've got it off because there are a load of unwritten rules where we have just been trained to follow what the fucking man does in life obviously so heteronormative blah blah blah

or just even the other person yeah the other person is following a different script from you i think most people put them in i reckon like i mean i do feel like people are slowly we are slowly learning that we can um that we can choose that we like have we can have our own free will yeah that we can we have a choice but i do think most people put them in a room especially at the beginning of their sexual kind of um careers like their sexual lives put them in the room and the first few sexual encounters they're going to have you you're going to go along with what you think is expected of you don't feel bad about that because you also don't really know how it works exactly also everyone's starting from different points and it's everyone's got a different set

of rules and this is why communication is great but i also think how like people always say exactly also everyone's starting from different points and it's everyone's got different sets of rules this is why communication is great but i also think how like people always say communicate with your partner sorry i cannot hey great date with you before we have sex can we just talk about like it's like that is a lot that is a lot that's amazing but that's a fucking lot yeah it's not common i don't think that's realistic for a 16 year old girl to be like hey my boyfriend that i'm kind of in love with and i think i'm gonna get married to but i have to pretend i don't give a shit about you yeah i have to pretend i don't like you but i really before we have sex want to communicate all of my fears and worries that's not

maybe happening so i think it's actually just be real with yourself if you can't be real with your partner about what do you like and what do you not like yeah what are you comfortable with and just like it's okay it's okay you're not you're not going to be the first person who's got a long list of things that could have gone differently if they would have just been able to blah blah blah like it just it's okay it's all okay and you're not bad at sex you're not bad at sex. You're not bad at sex, no. It's the final cracks. Definitely not. ACAST powers the world's best podcasts.

Here's a show that we recommend. Nature. I've got a gay rooster named Francois. Is so gay. These rams are gay. I'm studying gay animals. Does that mean I'm gay? So why don't more people know this? I'm Owen Ever. I'm Lane Kaplan-Levinson, and this is a Field Guide to Gay Animals, a podcast about queerness in the natural world. The animal kingdom is queer, and we are a part. Find a Field to gay animals on spotify apple or wherever you get your podcasts a cast helps creators launch grow and monetize their podcasts everywhere a cast.com

okay i like this one because a lot of people are saying similar things um this person said advice for someone who wants a relationship but is scared of rejection i was cheated on before and i also feel like just the whole idea of everyone there's a lot of different ways that like the idea of rejection is coming up and if i was smart i would have saved it to do a title of rejection colon something really funny we can still do that we can still do that I'm not I'm there's never enough rejection combo yeah I just feel I do feel like as a society we don't talk about how painful even just the idea like the fear of rejection is it's really quite a big deal I think it's one of those things that everyone is like oh I just have this fear of think it's one of those things that everyone is like oh i just have this fear of rejection it's like i don't think that's like a fear of rejection it's

like it's human nature to not want to be like excluded or told that you're like not what someone wants it's quite horrendous but then i also think it's who i'm not speaking to anyone who's saying yeah i've got fear of rejection i'm speaking to people who are pretending really they're telling me that they don't have a fear of rejection at all do you know what i mean i feel like everyone pretends like oh he didn't want to see me yeah whatever it doesn't even matter like oh i didn't get that job but like you know whatever blah blah blah it's like why why i think we have a discomfort with 100 we have a discomfort because it's uncomfortable and it's like there's shame around it it's embarrassing like pub to be rejected openly mortifying i think it's one of the hardest

things that humans do yeah because we really can't it's hard on us in ourselves and then it's even harder to like vocalize that and share it openly i think no completely i think it's one of those things where i've been speaking to people recently and they i think people preempt their rejection quite often like oh my god so true do you think yeah you're so right yep so true before you've even said it so true cheeriest thing i've ever heard resounds because i think people especially on dating apps is a real place where people preempt rejection or just assume yep i said this to you huh go on sorry i didn't know what you said i just said i said this to you oh did you really on. Sorry, I didn't hear what you said. I just said, I said this to you.

Oh, did you? Really enthusiastically. Yeah, but go on. Because I said it in a different way, probably. Especially on dating apps, people do things where they'll be talking to someone and they'll be like, like, they didn't reply to me or like they didn't. I got ghosted. I got ghosted. And it's like, actually, did you get ghosted?

Or is just that kind of the name of the game of dating apps? Was that a rejection, an active rejection of you did they look at your profile and think nah not gonna reply did they do that or did it just move on in the way that life moves on and just they forgot and if you want something prompt it because i do think there's a lot of times when it's like i didn't actively reject someone just let it go just kind of forgot because that's just literally the nature of that um like form of communication it's just how it works you know what i find people do though and this is why i said to you i've said this to you about people like so someone's on a dating app for example they'll be like oh i was just i think i'm gonna see this guy on thursday oh he's like really like he's not really fit though like blah blah oh let

me see his pictures yeah this is him he's like really not fit do you think he's fit i don't think he's that fit it's like you swipe for him you're having a whole conversation why can we not just indulge the idea that he might be a bit hot like i so agree with you you don't have to diminish someone immediately by being like they're not fit they're not fit do you know what i mean it's like just let them be fit and if they reject you as a fit person rejected you like they're fit enough i remember when you said this to me because it was a guy that i was showing you that i was like oh like i don't know whether like to meet him or not like i don't know if he's very fit and you were like why can't you just be honest that he's fit like why does it have to be oh i don't know if he's yeah it's too painful

it's too embarrassing there's too much risk involved i think it's that you one i think it's difficult maybe for people to get good pictures that is like oh could they be fit could they not be fit yeah that's true that's true yeah trying to work your whole vibe out from five five pictures or whatever but then i also think there's a bit of it that's like you never hear anyone say i'm talking to this guy i'm talking to this person and they're really fit you never well actually maybe i say a lot more about girls like this girl's really stunning but i feel like with guys i'm always like i don't know and maybe it is because there are four really stunning photos

and then two where he's like holding a fish and fucking like a picture of a weird meme that i don't understand it's like i just don't know what's going on but i do think people never want to admit that they want something a dating someone that's a hottie yeah that's like yeah you're stunning because you don't it gets filed under the thing of you have to be you're dating someone you have to pretend you don't give a shit it's like to show that you care to show that you give a shit in any way is a weakness in today's society which is really crazy that we're at that point but i do think that's it it's like to admit that you like something is a vulnerable moment because you if you like it you could lose it but also such is life you have to be fluid and have fun with these things and the hot guy chose

you yeah yeah they chose you they're going on a date with you it's a mutual thing yes this is what i have to enjoy remind people of quite often because i think i never really think i think basically if you've been on a date with sephi she thinks you're fucking ugly as fuck no no no no i'm joking but like last night i went to a comedy show and i walked out of it and i was like god everyone there fancied us so much are you joking everyone there literally couldn't keep their eyes this is why i like being friends with sephie this is what i mean about the balm of some sort of some sort of arrogance going on here that i get to feed off of but then everyone else was like no no one looked at us the whole night like what are you on about like we can't we like we were really unfunny like we just sat on our own and i was literally like no no no no no like they

all fancied us like they were all couldn't keep their eyes off us perspective hey it's a nice way to live but i then forget that other people sometimes think that on a date and obviously we all have insecurities blah blah blah but i would forget that someone would either be yeah having sex or like in a date with some on a date with someone and they would be more analyzing or how am i coming across rather than and be doubting themselves what you're really doing which is kind of auditioning them you're both auditioning each other for like whatever it's going to be but i do think goes without saying they're happy goes

out saying they're happy to be on a date with you yeah but i think that's that's an end goal for a lot of people i think like no like there's not a lot of people that go to that as the default that's what i mean by you're a special little soul that you've just conquered a mission already like you just got here and what's wrong with me no no no no sorry i didn't mean it like that but no no but i mean it's a good thing of like you don't there are lots of moments where you're not doubting yourself and and it's funny because those are the moments where a lot of people do doubt themselves do you know i mean you also have lots of moments where you doubt oh i just clicked my knee like right in the microphone sorry little bit of bone asmr for you bone lovers

oh my god but i just think it's funny like the i don't know it's just funny when people don't seem to realize it's like as much as as you're analysing yourself, like, they're probably not doing that to you the same extent. They're probably worried about themselves. Like, it's not actually... No one gives a shit about you the same way that you give a shit about you. Yeah. But it's just like, they do fancy you. Like, let's not lie.

You're a stunner. They're a guy you met on a fucking hinge. I love it. Look at the group of us guys. We're doing fine. Yeah yeah i think it's hard for people to get there though i think it's really hard for people to get there yeah no it is i just don't really get it she's trying to imagine but she can't i don't get it she can't access that insecurity what is a good thing i love it i love it i love it i was literally like looking into space like let me try and feel it that's what i can see you really honestly focusing like tongue out like concentrating on like what would it feel like to be insecure

weird as well because i'm literally the most insecure person but not just not like that which is so good this is um i've got quite a nice one this is mainly just a little one for you wing just let's bring it in let's let's bring in it's just us two oh all right what connects you to like what lets you stay friends i saw someone else said do you honestly think you'll be friends for life but it's kind of why did you put the word honestly there like kind of do you do you honestly think are you deluded do you honestly think you're gonna be friends for life are you telling us are you being serious when you actually think you're gonna be friends for life it's like why do you you're seeing something that we're not seeing also it's like i don't fucking know

you guys no i don't know i don't know right now i hope so god i hope so got 38 pounds 30 depending on it what connects you to like what helps you stay for what lets you stay friends i think they said yeah what lets you stay friends let's us i know it's like who lets do you do you think we're fighting against all odds to be friends do you know what i mean over scorching deserts whatever it's blistering winds yeah blistering winds and scorching deserts what connects us so many things so many things i think on a base level we're connected on like dumb humor and just like general interest in similar things but i think on a deeper level we will stay connected because we are committed to the

friendship in a different way i think both of us want a real friendship with or without the podcast like before the podcast even i think both of us were in we're interested in like real things yeah definitely which sounds kind of i guess that sounds a bit dumb like we're interested in real things not like fake things but real things and also quite a lot of fantasy things yeah but like I think the way that both of us like maintain the friendship kind of you're just you're constantly showing and being shown that you give a shit and like you want something I think it's a mutual dedication to one another it's a life partnership yeah because my answer that i was kind of mulling when i saw that for about two seconds before i asked you in those two second mull i was thinking

you're the person that if i'm on a walk or something that i'll be like oh let me speak to a wing like that that's i think that's the thing that if there's a moment in our lives that we're not speaking which is rare anyway i think it's that we kind of it's like a weird thing where we kind of can't get enough of each other we're always going for more that's funny yeah we could be on the phone for seven hours straight in a day which to be honest some would say get a job get life and i wouldn't disagree well the other day when i was i was really pestering for the day that i cried i was really every five minutes i was like can i call you can i call you nothing to say i just almost need to hear that's what we always say i don't know if we say this really on the podcast but we say it between each other just wanted to hear your voice say i

just want to hear your voice and i actually had a weird um it's a weird thing that someone actually a celebrity died and i was watching their into that i was watching a speech that someone was giving at the funeral and i was having obviously horrible thoughts about like if one of us was to die and i was thinking if sammy was to die years ago i was like i would say it's a really harrowing line it's like i'll never be able to say i just want to just hear your voice i just wanted to hear your voice it's kind of our little thing we say to each other it's really weird it's really weird just to hear your voice but it's quite a centering thing i think yeah it is it's because it's like i have nothing to say but i just want to hear your

voice because i just want to hear i think you're one of the people that in life i want to hear about honestly i want to hear your morning routine it's just like tell me about the coffee tell me about your beans on toast thank you well it's not much like kind of you talking to you well the morning routine is talk to me but then it's like i want to hear about what um flavor lollipop you had last night i don't know when you're eating lollipops but like i want to hear about the new slippers you've got blah blah blah yeah but there aren't many people that i find just like endlessly interesting like most people i would say i find quite dull or there's a lot of people that i just think oh snooze snooze fest and you're just not one of them okay thanks that's nice thank you well i think there's look i think there's a million and

one things keeping our friendship ticking over i mean i love it that's it that's kind of my crux we do get a lot of questions actually like how do you find like people want to find a friendship like this how do they do that i think join us first of all i would say don't go for a friendship like this because it does get it will set your life on a different track and maybe it's not for everyone turn your life upside down it's not for everyone we didn't meet and it made life kind of easier in a way like we met and it set us on a new thing right so i would say like don't look at this and think that would be good because it might not be okay right let me just praise as that

pick up the pieces of what you just said to me what you should be seeking is maybe not a friendship which was bizarre and all of this stuff but like a friendship that is based in like truth and like an honesty and like not a load of fucking bullshit because i think a lot of friendships or a lot of just like relationships in life are based on outward performances of what you think you look like together and who you think they fit how you fit in each other's lives and things like that and like habits of what you say this is how our friendship goes and we've always been friends like this and blah blah blah yeah this is how it should be yeah and then we can do this together or you're just really filling the time or like a situation friendship and i think all of these things serve their purpose but i do think what people say like when they say oh i want a friendship like yours but i think what

they're connecting with isn't the outward projection of what we are but i do think it's just like i don't honestly i don't actually fucking know what people are connected with like not i literally not gonna lie i literally don't know i have no idea what this is yeah but i'm guessing it would be like a feeling of like i have a similar sense of humor like i have a similar um that you speak about things that i relate to and things like that which i think that is something you can get easily from any friend really i do think a lot of people it's like okay yeah no i get there's overlap in your references and all of these things but like i think on a deeper level what i feel with you there's just like not a fakeness and we're in for the journey like there's a lot of mess that goes on on this podcast and also behind the scenes. A lot. We're both quite emotional, I would guess is the word.

That's something that if you want to have a day crying, I wouldn't be like, oh, I roll. I'm well there for it. I'm there for it. I'm in. I'm in. Yeah. And I know it works the other way around. And I think that's something that is so valuable to me that it's like this is a commitment

to whoever we want to be that day. Yeah. We show up as that person. If it's a mess, that's great. If it's a little comedian, that's great. Whatever it is, we show up with. I know the other person is there for it. I love that so much.

I completely agree. I also think just coming off of that, I think that is like, I think that's encouraged as well because both of us want to see the other one do well, which is probably more rare than I think people would like to admit in terms of friendships and like female friendships. It's Oprah and Gayle.

I don't know if female friend, I don't love, like, do you know what I mean? Female friendship, yeah. Yeah, it doesn't feel like the most inclusive phrasing, but someone can help me, maybe. We spoke about this in an episode. I think we did it in like a thing that was female friendship colon or something like that but i remember speaking about oprah my queen yeah and her best friend gail you know she's an enfj is she oprah no wonder you love her because i'm an enfj yeah classic i bet gail's an infp like me honestly i wouldn't be surprised honestly I wouldn't wait now we sound mental yeah go on sorry yeah I remember them doing they did like a magazine cover shoot together sort

of thing I don't know what it was for let's say Vanity Fair and they did a thing and it was the two of them and they've been best friends since um they were like 21 I think it was and they have worked they have a very professional relationship also just like close working um close friendship in general I love them if you couldn't tell i love them we're getting a josh from drake and josh moment happening i'm about to run her over i've got a big cardboard cutout of oprah in my room yeah they they wrote a thing in the article that was saying they got asked why does your friendship why has it worked over these years why is it sustained the like test of time oprah has had this huge career and gail said i never

feel like i'm in oprah's shadow i always feel like i'm in her light and obviously shivers down the spine instantly so beautiful but i and then oprah was saying yeah we always want what is best for one another saying yeah bitch get back in my fucking shadow then Oprah's like hang on what do you mean kick get back Gail you do know I'm significantly more successful than you right Gail I've been trying to ditch you she's like god eye roll here we go again gail thinking she's gail you massively overstepped there here gail goes again yeah go on and i love that because i don't think there are many role models for women that don't compare themselves and especially women that have aged and and their careers have like stand the test of time

and also that one of them has gone on to be hugely successful and the other one gail is also hugely successful but oprah is oprah god well you can't compare to oprah yeah fucking hell it's oprah yeah it's fucking oprah jesus and they met as equals on a show and one of them became oprah yeah fucking hell it's oprah yeah it's fucking oprah jesus and they met as equals on a show and one of them became oprah one of them became gail both fucking stunners and there's something really magical about the level of support that they both give each other and it's not oh fuck i wish i was oprah oprah i wish i was gail i'm just putting that one in there but we really know that it's mainly gail thinking i wish i was oprah yeah everyone thinks i wish i was kevin jones just trying to be nice but i don't think that's necessarily how their relationship works i think

that's something that the world projects onto them oh how do you feel the sense of comparison and i don't necessarily think that's what's going on in their relationship i genuinely think they are equals in their friendship and that is yeah that is how it should be i don't know why well i'm sure when oprah walks into the room gail isn't like oh my god it's fucking oprah yeah no no way she could go less yeah no that's why many people ask us many people that's why people ask us that's what's guarding that's what fluffy's guarding that's what snake wants that's what snake wants but i do think that is what fluffy's guarding that is why people keep us we've been hiding under the trap door we're a little bunch of keys with wings that's what everyone wants that's why people ask us oh do you guys

really think your friendship's gonna last do you really do this because all the all the role models that you've seen is a group of two friends that start they get successful whatever together and then they fucking fall out and then it's catastrophic ending and it's nightmare there are examples of that right now in like the vlogging world of like two girl best friends that have fallen out and it's a fucking nightmare and podcasts exactly it's everywhere shower name nameless so i do think it's really stunning to hold on to i mean we'll see where this goes so no wonder we're getting asked do you think it's gonna last and i think that's why it's really important of us that the priority is the friendship is the dynamic of i just want to hear your voice blah blah blah so, blah. So mental. And it doesn't get lost in bullshit.

And now we can afford to see one another. And now we can actually see each other. Hopefully. Pays right for a train ticket, maybe, to Brighton. Doesn't pay for anything to do on the day, but it does pay for me to arrive in Brighton. I love it. I really like this one, and maybe as, like, a final one.

How do i encourage myself to believe that i'm smart or smart enough to go to university and what for what for i can't help you with but how can i encourage myself that i'm smart enough for you're smart enough to go we can do some we can help here oh go on then take it away it's a fucking simple answer you are you are smart enough like it's not even positive thinking time you can do whatever you want you are smart enough to go you just are yeah 100 goes without saying i just thought like getting a message like that how can i convince myself that i'm smart enough to go to university first of all can i just say the amount of idiots that are at university you are smarter than most of them well you found stephanie wing at university because this is something i always used to think about with driving learning to drive i was like

oh god i'm never gonna be able to do that it's so fucking hard it's so fucking hard then i was looking around the roads yeah the streets i thought look at the fucking idiots that can drive i remember someone said that to me it really did flip my perspective actually i can do that it's so true like think of the dumbest idiot you know they can drive they've got a degree also think of all the things that you can do now that at one point you would have thought oh god i i could i could never do that i don't even know how i would approach doing that do you know what i mean even like if you're in fucking year 10 science,

you'll be doing things that you would have thought in year four science, you would have thought, God, I'll never be able to do that. I'll never be able to. And then you know what happens? You learn. I remember finding it difficult to work out

what combinations of numbers made the number 10. I remember being like, this is so hard. I mean, catch me on the wrong day. I might still try. Number bonds, I believe it's called. But I remember finding finding that really difficult now i could do that in my sleep yeah two and eight seven and three all right i'm gonna have to go into it but i'm five and five yeah maths whiz i think think about like look university doesn't have to be something that you want to do you might not want to do it but if there's a part of you that wants to have a certain experience you want something you absolutely can get it if silly old sephie and wing on their

shitty little thing can get 30 quid 30 pounds people don't scrimp yourself 38 pounds 30 38 pounds jesus you can do anything yeah you can do anything i do i do think like oh i don't i don't know i wish you hadn't picked this one i don think like oh i don't i don't know i wish you hadn't picked this one i don't feel like i have anything good to say well i think it was just the the quick answer of you absolutely can right i also i think smart enough as a concept is really interesting because obviously with like traditional education there are very like clear barometers of smart not smart enough etc etc being graded against one another you can very easily compare okay well if i got a six and this person got a seven then what does

that mean about us but in the and i hate to say it quote unquote real world but just basically outside of those really traditional and very specific experiences everything outside of that is very is so much more free yeah fluid yeah in the way that when you're driving somewhere you could be smart at driving you could walk into the supermarket and not be very smart figuring out where the tomatoes are me me all over and you could be smart at using the you're smart and you're a human being just the idea of smart and smart enough is kind it doesn't really work because you're so much more dynamic and fluid than what that is going to allow for the idea of um being like book smart i guess is the thing that is valued in like formal education but then when i

look around and yet in the quote-unquote real world which really just means you've been living it in your whole life it's just your relationships your friendships and just this weird idea of now you've got to make money um which which by the way just reflects on everyone we are the proud owners of 38 pounds just to let you know there probably has been a mid-roll in this as well hope you enjoyed you're about to hear another one please listen but hopefully next week we'll get a bit more money um yeah some of the i feel like i'm just calling people idiots but i kind of am because there are some people that i know that did so fucking well at school so fucking genius genius people right that are technically book smart that when you speak to them they don't have a fucking clue what they're doing or who they are or what's going on.

So what's so smart? Well, I think that's it. Views on what is smart. It's just subjective though, because I could... So you and I obviously think we're pretty smart because we're engaging in all of this interesting... The conversations that we find interesting. So if I want to talk about fucking Robert Pattinson,

I know she's got her smarts on Robert Pattinson. She's the right kind of girl to speak to about this. But speak to me about, but to be honest, anything other than. Than that. I don't know what I'm doing. And that's the kind of thing is you, you'll be valued. You're going to be valued differently in different places.

So just make sure that the value you put on yourself isn't really up for grabs. Yeah. Everyone else's value on you is going to be shifting all the time. Make sure that your self-worth can kind of stay hopefully like at a good point in yourself because all that matters is look you're the one sending the application so if you think you're smart enough you're going to put yourself forward to the places that you want to go for example that's all that matters

whatever you want to do you are definitely good enough to do that thing absolutely and every accolade you receive someone says she's the smartest at science if you feel like you're not very smart you're not gonna feel a thing no and then what was it all for that's the lesson i think that is the biggest thing i've had to learn in life and i think everyone is still learning that the life lesson you will never feel good about the things everyone praises you for unless you feel good about them it's like it's chicken or egg it doesn't matter how many people say yeah that's amazing that's amazing that's amazing if you feel nothing and it works the other way around it doesn't really matter how many people tell you that's not a good idea that's shit you're shit you're shit if you

feel good about yourself you can't be touched harry as long as dumb was around you can't be touched you can't be touched and it's fucking true such a beautiful line so it all comes down to how you feel it really does which is really hard but that's the aim of the game isn't it to feel good about yourself that's mission complete right well see you there see you there there's an you're about to hear another advert i don't know what it may be but i hope you enjoy it i'm gonna stop us actually oh i'm so sorry i know you just did a really beautiful little rap and i'm like actually someone said not just someone not just anyone someone that we love said can you end the episode with like a wholesome thing or like something that's going like just a nice inspirational quote or like something like that i know we did

just leave it on something really inspirational and really wholesome you want me to give a quote but i just wondered if there was any like one if there's just any little little sprinkle of you know something that you're feeling at the moment and that might hit someone yeah i do have it well there's a thing that i have written at the top of my journal that i started off like oh i'm gonna write down a different thing every day but it turns out i just have one thing that I read every day and it just says it's like a little affirmation and it says I come to each day with nothing to prove I told you that one I know and I thought you were gonna say I told you that one yeah that's written at the top of the thing and I honestly need to read that every day because I feel like we're trained so much to be like i'm i'm really deserving

like all kind of see i told you i was smart classic issue we've been discussing it for a while now well it's easy for me to see that you need to come here with nothing to prove because i just think she's proved it or what does she have to prove yeah so to see it for yourself i come to each day with nothing to prove stunning i come to each day with nothing to prove. Stunning. I come to each day with nothing to prove. So I watch Succession all day and that's my life. And I just think about Kieran and I don't give a fuck. I don't need to prove. Stunning.

Anything. Stunning. What about you? I would love to hear your wholesome thing. Oh no, I want to leave it there. I'll do next week. Oh wow, we do alternating weeks. Oh God, is this a whole...

That might be nice. Is this a feature that's been sprung on me? I don't know. I mean, I just thought it was a nice idea for someone to send us and I thought, don't let them down. I think it's an amazing idea. It's a lovely little thing. Okay.

Yeah, I think it's amazing. Okay, cool. Okay, well, thank you so much for listening to this shitty little thing. And if you don't hear from us, assume the worst. We're going to be counting our money, counting that 38 quid all the way to the bank.