Goes Without Saying - toxic friendships & comparison: she's a 10 but only has fake friends

Episode Date: June 26, 2022

tell me you're trying to navigate female friendships in a patriarchy without actually telling me...join the conversation every monday.shop our merch: sephyandwing.comcome and chat in our book club!speak your mind on the @sephyandwing instagram!you’re invited to our discord group chat: https://discord.gg/zuPH7gyeGp Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

ACAST powers the world's best podcasts. Here's a show that we recommend. In the early 1980s, gay men started to get sick from AIDS. Years before ACT UP, before HIV was discovered, before the history you know, there were people on the front lines of the fight against AIDS. Joe Sonnabit. Michael Callen. Bobby Campbell.

I'm Dane Stewart, and in the new season of my podcast, Resurrection, I tell the stories of heroes of the early AIDS movement. Like the story of a cabaret singer and a sex worker who invented safe sex and saved millions and millions and millions of lives. Go check out Resurrection

wherever you listen to podcasts. ACAST helps creators launch, grow, and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast.com Hey guys, I'm just editing this episode and I wanted to put in a little note at the beginning just to say that this was recorded before you know what i'm gonna say this was recorded before the u.s overturning of constitutional abortion rights um i mean goes without saying you know how stuff you know what i feel about that um so i just wanted to put that in at the beginning, just so you know that this was recorded,

it feels like ages ago now, and it just would have been weird to put it out. Even though there's no real direct link, I guess, in the topic, I just almost feel like if we were to have recorded this episode now, it would have somehow been different. So I just wanted to let you guys know that this was recorded before and that we are, without saying thinking of all of you and just hoping that you are all safe and can stay safe um and that i hope this episode is a nice hour of escape for you or whatever you want from this episode i hope you get it and more

um we love you appreciate you so much i feel like i'm whispering behind sephie's bag oh it's just the two of us right now what could I say I'm done I'm not gonna say anything else just enjoy the episode love you so much thank you for being here you wouldn't believe the amount of love that we're sending you it's absolutely absurd and kind of a bit creepy actually okay love you bye goes that saying you're listening to goes that saying with seffy and wing i'm wing and i'm seffy and i just said that this is our one of our best episodes and what did i was saying i think we can't put it out i thought it was bad but you come around now no yeah no no i don't think it was bad it was just halfway through I thought is this bad and I quickly squashed your fears I actually think this is a really good episode I'll tell you why I think if I was in my own head feeling like Jesus Christ I'm a piece of shit I'm all on

my own nobody gets me in this world I think this podcast might do a decent job of convincing me otherwise which good thing we're putting it out yeah can't say no to that um we're answering your questions about friendship ideas mainstream media feminist even ideas of what friendship means i think this is a great episode i hope you enjoy okay quite nervous energy we have today yeah i don't know why i don't know why i think we always come with it though i think we're in weird we're in weird moods when no one's shocked we're in weird moods today we're in moods that i don't i don't know whether they really gel i don't know i don't know whether they really gel i don't know if they need to be recorded and immortalized forever on this podcast usually i thought we were gelling quite well but then as soon as we started recording i was like oh god oh stiff as a board yeah i think we're gelling but

usually our vibe i feel it's either one of us is up and one of us is down or we're both up i think there's never really appeared when we're both down not that i'm down i was gonna say i don't think you're down i just think you're furious i'm not but we can't say absolutely furious out of my mind we can't say why but can we say that you didn't sleep last night because you were so angry absolutely so angry in a funny way i'm angry at a man for speaking to me in a certain way it's fair enough too much and just no and just beyond that angry at the patriarchy i'm angry for everything that this conversation and this dynamic symbolizes for women across the globe and throughout history it's a universal issue you know what someone actually did ask um like a couple weeks ago it was for one of the

like times that we said ask us questions someone said why don't you speak about feminism anymore do we not well i've been thinking about it i haven't stopped thinking about it since they asked Well, I've been thinking about it. I haven't stopped thinking about it since they asked. And maybe we could talk about that in another episode because I don't want to talk about it right now. I feel like because it feeds into every single facet of our beliefs. When I'm talking about beans on toast, I'm talking, I don't know if you got it,

but that was actually a message about feminism. When I was talking about... Everything we say, this say to feminists so anyway maybe we'll get to that later on but today is friendship friendship which there's always something to say about friendship i think i think people always want to hear about it i think we always get asked we always specifically i think we've had this comment come up quite a lot like how do i get a friendship like you two i've seen that quite a lot which i think is so sweet and i also think don't definitely don't i was gonna say never see each other unless you're literally working out of your ass do not see monkeys do not do this yeah honestly a couple of clowns at the circus do not get this friendship um no i think do get the friendship i think but maybe make some

time for the friend i think we're really bad at making time for us yeah we are we are and we know that we all we wrote in our diaries like we wrote out like a little schedule like we need to have a friend's day this many times. We were honestly joking. And then we closed the book and never looked at it again. Imagine we see each other twice a month as friends. No. We'd be thriving.

But the problem is we talk so much. Yeah. But I was thinking that having, so for example, I might tell, say something happened to me in my life. Say for example, I was walking down the street, someone spilled coffee on me. I might tell that story to you for the first time on the podcast.

But what happens is I tell it to Sefi in a way that I'm not only addressing my best friend, I'm also addressing thousands of other people, which means I'm telling it in a different way. So I might say to you what you hear is oh i was walking down the street and like someone spilled coffee on me blah blah but what actually happened was oh it was my my best friend's cousin who's put coffee on me but you never know that because that's not the story that i tell you don't you think i was thinking that recently like i hear that we hear specific versions of each other's lives when we tell it on the podcast we do say most things off the pod but you get what i'm saying but also yeah it's

just a weird dynamic that we see of each other like what other person do you see the dynamic of them essentially with a microphone as natural as this is and as unperformed as it is in so many ways like it is with a microphone in front like it is weird it's weird to like i have access to like your biggest fans i have access to people who are like she's talking about you i love something i love it like do you know what i mean it's like that's i think that's really an amazing thing is to get to see people appreciating your best friend like is that a global on a global scale i think that's so cool yeah that is really cool well that's the one i but then i just get scared every time it's one of our names in the in the dm someone says oh wing made me think it's like i love it but i get the fear of like so they hate me be nice everybody be nice if you're calling one of us out individually

let's keep it a nice clean game from all of you from all of you no chance to be honest um what do you think is the best thing about our friendship that wasn't a question that we were asked but i just wanted to ask you yeah the best thing just to make this even more self-indulgent than it already is i think there are a few things numero uno i think number one and then straight after as i said number one for the people that don't know what numero uno means um i think the level of like empathy that we have and like understanding and like time that we we allow each other is i think one of the things i like the most is just like it's it really is like a um a dedicated zone to us which is a bit weird we're cordoned off our zone it's just us yeah um

and i also a bit on a lighter note love that you are the person that i want to talk to about um like culture cardi b's child culture i want to talk to you about pop culture i want to talk to you about media i want to talk to you about all of the stuff because i feel like you're the person who i really respect your opinions on everything so much i really respect your opinions on did you see a fucking korean kardashian kid they're coming up again did you see what mason was wearing i don't know did you see p's red new red hair we're not doing that again no um but whatever it is you're gonna be you're gonna come out with something i love wow okay cool that's nice so i think i like there's so many things also i love that we do this like this is yeah that's true it's kind of hard to beat this isn't it i love it

yeah stunning what about you i agree i agree and i just think i do i i get why people say where do i not by the way not everyone says where do i get a friendship like yours it's embarrassing it's embarrassing to suggest that they do um but I get why people would say it because I would listen and be like god that sounds quite good do you know what I mean it is good it's a good it's but I think it's um I don't know I think I think it is to speak about the podcast I think it is a special thing to have it be I think to do something where you're doing something that means a lot to you and that's so cool and that you're so proud of and you get to do it with somebody else that do you know what i mean it's just it's just very i think that's a very special thing it has to be i remember like i would

always say to you is actually the level of delusion is embarrassing but like i remember like when this is probably about a year ago but when we first actually started getting people listening to this like actual real life people maybe not a year ago probably two years ago but i remember noticing like a distinct shift yeah probably around a year ago where i was like oh no there's now not just people i can't keep up with our first live yeah probably around that time being like i don't know when this happened but now things have stepped up we're getting messages that i i don't know what's going on around here it's just crazy um and i remember being like the level of delusion um i don't know what you're gonna say how would like someone like for example taylor swift

do this on her own like how does taylor do it on her own it's like we're not at that level that is but i was picturing like taylor swift with her little ringlets with her guitar 14 year old whatever i don't know how people do that i don't know really how people do anything on their own no but just the idea of like you're starting off on a thing. Someone says something to you. And what? You've got no one on your left. Even just showing up.

Just there's no one there that you can be like, wait, that was weird, wasn't it? Or like, God, that was crazy. Like that was a thing. Or like, can you believe we just got this email? Oh, this is changing, isn't it? Yeah. But what we do is we not only have that conversation with each other we then also extend it on which is the root because what the hell no one cares yeah probably no one cares well anyway i thought that was a nice way to get started really

nice first key yeah let's do it okay i like this one this person said i don't have a best friend and i feel i'm just coming on the back of that conversation we're the best best friends ever aren't we so lucky to be best friends i don't have a best friend and i feel like every girl does i'm not close enough to anyone and i find sharing personal things really tough as i don't trust people easily and you know who i think's at fault for this yeah for this issue that that women have that i think is a really common thing that women think they should have best friends and i once again to bring it back to feminism i think the fault is at the patriarchy

of v that women do think that they're not enough on their own that it's either like let me tell you it will either be a boyfriend or a fucking best friend of course it's no coincidence that women think that they should have someone else stunning and i do think there's a real fucking stereotype of like the girl and her bestie that we're we're pushing we're pushing it we might be at fault but who's behind us the patriarchy someone has been pushing this idea this agenda this best friend agenda but i do think that it's no coincidence that there are girls worrying about oh i don't have a best friend i don't have the aesthetic of a best friend it's no different to being like i don't have the aesthetic as validation but also the idea that everyone has a best friend i was i immediately thought like

first of all no they don't and second of all like we've just you've just got no idea what's going on in someone else's life you only to be honest you barely know what's going on in your own life like unreliable narrator like you telling yourself that you don't you're not you're good enough for this or you don't open up like this or you don't have anyone blah blah it's not i'm sure some days you would disagree with what you just said do you know what i mean completely and i think almost the preoccupation with what everyone else has it just it doesn't do any good does it also like there's the romanticized idea that a girl should have a best friend and let's let's throw that into fucking the the male realm let's throw that into the boys

that we fucking know are they worrying that they don't have a best friend absolutely fucking not absolutely is or it's not it's not the same as i don't fucking know but i don't know this is why we don't talk about feminism anymore exactly because it just is just opens up um room for annoyed people because you immediately hear the dm saying actually and i was just listening to this episode from nine months ago by the way where sephie said blah blah blah and i think that's so damaging but i mean all of it no that's how you feel just say it yeah it goes without saying every disclaimer in the world just pretend you've just heard it. Now I've forgotten what I was going to say.

I don't know anyway. You were going to say men aren't thinking in the same way. I need a best friend. I need a best friend. They're just going on with their lives. Men aren't worried in the same way about the aesthetics of, for example, their friendship. Like, I think there's this idea that as a girl,

you should be a part of like a clique. You should be one key member of a group. Potentially you should be the leader member of the group potentially you should be the leader of the group which is a fucked up fucking thing anyway then within that you should have your best friend then maybe you should have your boyfriend on the side of that as well and then it's just almost like what are the aesthetics of these relationships like i don't necessarily see or i think it's fucked up that women are made to feel like they should have these things and i do think more of that is so they can be seen as being

someone with a best friend or someone that is in a group yeah rather than actually like do you because you have to get your value from somebody else seeing the value in you rather than you just seeing the value in yourself wendy's Small Frosty is the ultimate summer refreshment and not because it's cool and creamy and made with fresh Canadian dairy. It's also refreshingly cheap. Just 99 cents until July 14th. It's a treat for you and your wallet. ACAST powers the world's best podcasts. Here's a show that we recommend. Nature.

I've got a gay rooster named Francois. Is so gay. These rams are gay. I'm studying gay animals. Does that mean I'm gay? So why don't more people know this? I'm Owen Ever. I'm Lane Kaplan-Levinson. And this is a field guide to gay animals.

A podcast about queerness in the natural world. The animal kingdom is queer and we are a part. Find a field guide to gay animals on Spotify, Apple. Or wherever you get your podcasts. ACAST helps creators launch, grow, and monetize their podcasts everywhere a cast.com yeah like what is the feeling that a best friend or whatever it is what what is the feeling that you're trying to get there because it's just acceptance surely i agree okay let's move it into a new space i'd love to because i love what we've done so far

and i think we can push it into a new dimension talking about i find it hard to open up to people etc i think that yes like there are like what do you want from a best friend everything you want to decide from others give you to yourself now whatever it is yeah but also we do need human connection yeah and i think if you're feeling at a lack of human you're not feeling like satisfied in that area lonely but this is the the thing that i was that i immediately thought when i read that was okay so you're feeling like you don't have someone in the way that you would want someone totally valid but then it's also the idea i think that makes it really the pain i think comes from them thinking i am not fulfilled in this way and everybody else is so what's wrong with me yeah

so i mean true that's what's really fucked up oh so that's just shit like that's just fucking shit but it's but it's not true like as in yeah it might be true that you're not your sim social bar is not up to scratch at the moment that's fine stages of life happen like that do you know what i mean you might go through a phase of life of um i just don't have like the right leather jacket at the moment and in two years time you'll get one and it will be your favorite leather jacket for seven years whatever but you just don't have it right it's just these things come and go sometimes but i think looking at other people and seeing them as more valid than you are is so isolating and painful

and i 100 i really think it's true when you say like that you think that everyone else yeah i think that's one of the key bits it's like you can feel a lack within yourself if you kind of have the um idea that everyone else has that same lack it's like during fucking covid we could all be like yeah my social life is down but everyone else is down like we're all together but there's nothing like phono that hits when it's like everyone else is out it's just you so i do think there's the idea that yeah everyone else has this thing which is inherently a lie like of course that is a lie because then we've got so many dms from different people saying the same thing that they don't have a best friend you've been around these people how many times have you been around people where you've been hanging out or whatever there

are these best friends you're with and then one of them leaves the room and everyone else starts complaining or bitching about that one person so don't tell me that everyone else has a best friend and everyone else is so fulfilled because they're not no they're fucking not and it's just what you hook on to it's literally just what your mind can find to hook on to to prove to yourself that you are just an unworthy piece of shit like whether it's best friend fucking not the job you want your clothes are shit you don't look the way you should your boyfriend's cheating on you whatever fucking thing you can grab onto your insecure mind will get it and if it just be if it is just that you so maybe you've got the job you want you're you're in the school that you want whatever the fuck

everything else is great but you don't have a best friend your mind is going to find that thing to hook on to oh i was saying this to my friend the other day because she was complaining about something complaining about not having the right shoes for an event or whatever and she was on the way to the event and she was i shouldn't have worn these shoes i shouldn't have worn these shoes and i was saying but if it wasn't the shoes it would have been something else like you just need something to complain about right now like you're on the train and you're stressed you're anxious yeah you're just stressing out and it's yeah you can focus you can get you can what am i trying to say like you can channel all of that stress and anxiety and all of that energy into shoes that's a great way of being like oh shit i'm really stressed out i'll just take out on the shoes i've got the wrong shoes it's something to focus on do you know i mean you can just like

easily put a name to it how sad is that that as humans we're just like literally incapable of being happy it's like nothing is wrong nothing is wrong with the shoes nothing is wrong but your mind is you're a bit stressed out yeah yeah i find that so um shit that it's like really you can't be happy with everything you've got because there's always going to be one little thing you can or it's like you're on your way to the lecture and you're like oh my god my jumper i got a stain on my jumper i got a stain on my jumper but if you didn't have a stain on your jumper you would have been like oh my god that guy's gonna be there in the seminar yeah i was speaking to a lover and if it wasn't him it would be like oh my god i didn't do the reading properly i didn't do the reading properly like if

it's not one thing is it i mean if it's not oh i don't have a best friend right now it would be oh i'm not gonna do that well in this exam coming up or oh i don't have enough money to pay my rent also when i think it gets to the bit that like i don't have a best friend right now you know you're clutching at straws because really i think what what it is is you're feeling lonely i think that's what i think that's where the feeling comes from you're not feeling accepted you're not feeling part of like a group and you're feeling lonely that is valid valid valid shit but the the fix for that is not a best friend it's not like okay i need to find my best friend you like that is not um it's it's it might make it harder for you yeah if there's a problem here

that might not be the easy fix that you might think it is and it's also attached to like a narrative and an aesthetic and also like a romanticized ideal of what like women should be like oh they've been my best friends since school like yeah we met at uni we started a podcast together blah blah blah whatever the fuck these bitches want to put onto their shit you know what they're up to but it's always got like a little it's the truth of for example us the truth of us is that we fucking text absolute bullshit to each other and it's actually some of the time that bit's fun but it's a normal fucking relationship some of it's fun some of it's not you know it's a normal relationship what did you say i'm a bit confused you said sometimes we text

and that bit's fun that was me stopping a tangent okay i was trying to basically say what is the reality of our thing and what is the aesthetic of our thing the reality of us me and you specifically yeah i'm thinking i'm just thinking me and you the reality of it weird shit to each other is a big part of it okay um i can see that like i don't know what we do we text weird weird shit together. We record this together. We talk all the time. All of the shit that we do. Is that, I don't necessarily think that is what people, I don't necessarily think people are like,

that's what I want. No, but I disagree. I disagree. Go on. Well, maybe I don't disagree. Maybe I just have a new point. I think that if I didn't have this, I wouldn't know what I was missing.

So I, and yes, I would want this for sure. But I almost, you don't know what you don't know. Like I, if I didn't have this, if I didn't have you, sure, I would absolutely want it. But I almost wouldn't know that I wanted it. And I wouldn't be able to articulate what it is. So for this person who wants a best friend, I absolutely believe that that you do but the beauty of it is that you don't even know how good that's gonna be when you've got it and you don't even know what you're looking for so just wait for it to you but i'm sorry you just have to sit back and let go and do all that

annoying shit and just like relinquish all control you have to because what's the alternative you're going to try and carve it out into somebody else or oh it can't force it like you almost you don't know what you want because you don't have it yet and that isn't necessarily a bad thing if you can get yourself through which you absolutely can by yourself and by leaning on people that you already have you you will have like you will absolutely have good relationships in by leaning on people that you already have you you will have like you will absolutely have good relationships in your life and i believe you already have good relationships in your life but by being preoccupied by looking for like one person or one thing or like this one best friend i think you're gonna block out like the rich if i for example years ago if i years ago was like i need a best friend i need a best friend i wouldn't have got into this relationship with stephy and started this podcast and god knows do you know i

mean i would have blocked out the real thing that was coming my way i almost think the reality of of of the relationship is not necessarily what people think they want and i don't mean the the reality of our relationship i mean the the best friend actual dynamic of whatever you fucking see on tv i actually think it's what people are seeing and they oh i don't know what people are seeing and what they think they would want or for example reality can be really different but that looks great i'm looking at sex in the city i'm seeing four girls out on the town i've watched the new bbc everything i know about love whatever it's called i'm saying that looks fucking great do i have a friend don't really look like that yeah i think it's just the reality of shit is actually a lot shittier a lot harder

okay as in like our friendship is shittier no it's real there is more shit and there's more it's real it's a real thing it's not a fictional thing but i almost think it's real yeah the aestheticized version of like a best friend you see two gals on instagram stunning it to each other they both got stunning outfits on the wind is blowing in their hair and they're walking down besties is the caption peace sign peace sign kiss kiss nails um you see that on instagram you're on one today it's because i'm so fuming i'm so fuming no but you're not coming across theories you're just being funny yeah i don't know what's wrong with me basically guys i had a really mental experience yesterday that has i didn't sleep i was so angry and i'm absolutely fumed about it are you gonna say more about it

or no no oh well that's really annoying we'd all just forgotten that that was hinted at the beginning and now we were just getting into the flow and now you've reminded us of the thing that we can't know about but look hey i guess that's the beauty of parasocial relationships it was just crazy guys i wish you guys were there honestly oh i wish you were there it was one of those moments where you actually lose your voice you're really teasing us here and i'm gonna have to stop you because it's unbearable sorry sorry no don't apologize we're basically i wish i could go into it no and they want you to and i want you to but you're not going to, so there's no point. I can say some bits.

Oh, go on, go on. It was just one of those moments where it's like, a man in a position of power says things, and it's like, oh, actually, I really, really, really... No, I can't, I'm sorry. You're going to regret saying this. Yeah, I'm stopping, stopping, stopping, stopping. Okay.

So frustrating. I actually don't know what's wrong with me today sorry so funny you're in your prime no i'm not that's so funny i quite like this one because i almost feel like i could have done with this advice and i feel like a lot of people are in a similar thing um so they said first year of uni will be starting in september for all of us and i'm so afraid of losing contact sad face hang on can you say it again sorry basically they're starting uni in september them and their friends are starting uni in september and they are scared of losing contact which i think is a real fucking thing like i was really worried about that i was really worried

about my friendship group that I'd known since I was like two years I don't know since I was two years old these people went to primary school secondary school um not I don't know I was overly worried but I definitely think it crossed my mind of like god we're all gonna go and do different things right now like that's a bit crazy um and I think I actually have genuine advice of like reach out like actually talk like make an effort because i think when you get to a new place all you want to do is just immerse yourself in it and before you know it you were like fuck i haven't spoken in like a month or like two months it's like fuck i actually haven't um or like it feels like an effort maybe to go and

visit suddenly it feels different it feels weird yeah it almost feels like oh like why would i leave my bubble that i'm in now and go into such a bubble bother and i would actually say my genuine advice is even if you don't really feel like it now make the effort like hold on to it yeah because i think one of my favorite things is the friends that i have from childhood from younglings my what yeah from younglings it's a star wars word yeah go on it really is well we went to seedlings together that was our nursery um so we kind of had a little seedlings cute that's cute oh no no that's actually giving away where i live i won't do that one um maybe i won't do either of those

but yeah i would just say like actually make the effort like it i do think it's a real thing to be like oh fuck i haven't spoken to my home friends but i also think don't be anxious about it like life goes on many a path i have some real advice for that too actually go on i think now or like before you go to uni basically with your close friends sit down and establish that because the problem i think as well is that obviously you're going off to uni and you're all going to be in different places. So one of you is going to be thriving. And well, I hope you're all thriving. But one of you will be thriving and be so in the bubble.

And they've got 20 new friends and they're so busy and blah, blah, blah. The other one hasn't had that experience and now doesn't want to say because it's like, oh, how's it? Oh, my God, it's amazing. How's yours? Oh, my God. It's so good. say because it's like oh how's it oh my god it's amazing how's yours oh my god yeah it's so good yeah i think before you go establish like a level of trust with each other and like say like let's have some honesty like between us yeah and kind of almost give some like a safe word or something like something that kind of just really pulls you back to that conversation

in in a few months time something that will pull you back to like looking in each other's eyes yeah and being like we knew we were going to be miles apart and we knew we were going to be in different places and this we established that it was okay to talk about that and like we established that we didn't need to i don't know like we could just ditch all the shit and just be real with each other because i think that can sometimes hold you back like if you feel like you know that you should reach out to someone but you almost don't feel like oh i don't want to talk about like what's going on with me at the moment or oh i think they're not having a great time so i don't want

to be like oh my god i've made like best friends with all the new girls in my house for example like i think i think that understanding would be so useful because i think for me anyway that really went unsaid that really totally i think it does guys this we're all kind of taking quite a gamble here yeah yeah our whole lives we're all plunging ourselves into different guys this we're all kind of taking quite a gamble here yeah yeah our whole lives we're all plunging ourselves into different scenes whatever we're doing whether we're going to uni whether we're working whatever the fuck we're doing um going traveling whatever it almost is like we're all taking a risk and this is going to pay off for some of us and it's not for some of us and i actually think it it would be better having that said because that's when totally

when it isn't said. That's when like the fakeness comes in and that's when things start to fall apart. And also we're all going to be in different places and also it's okay to change. Like we don't know what's going to happen, but what we do know is going to happen is that we are all going to be changing

and growing in this experience that we're going through. How much nicer would things have been if it was like this? The only thing we can count on is that we're going to come back different people and that's okay and like there's no pressure i'm not holding you to a certain version of you that i had from when we were 16 yeah i just want to stay in touch and i would love this do you know what it sounds nice isn't it yeah 18 but i think this is a real tangible thing that you can do yeah because also yeah good oh you go no i just think there's so much anxiety around that time but just almost i wouldn't have even identified really that i was stressed about my friends all going off to different places you're stressed about your own situation but then it's like you don't even know

the people that you've known for what however many years now they're not going to be there they're not going to be there and then they're all i think in my mind it was like okay they're not in my exact thing i was so stressed about myself going and doing working whatever i was doing that i didn't necessarily think okay you know they're going off on their whole own thing and they're going to be changing and changing and changing yeah and allowing that space i just think is i mean it would have changed everything yeah because it is weird as well when you have that i think it's in the in-betweeners movie the second in-betweeners movie or something like that where one of them is like a blah blah my best friend jack and then he's what what and then he's like my my uni best friend jack or whatever and it's really like yeah like we are

like our our existences are shifting here like our kind of what makes up our lives our social spheres everything about us is shifting into a new space so much of it obviously we're formed we are who we are like so much of it will carry on forever like we're always going to be from where we're from or have the memories that we have and blah blah but you are moving into new spaces with new people almost like before you go just saying to your mate like i i want you to have a new best friend jack or whatever yeah yeah just i want you to have a great time like i'm really rooting for you in this experience which also is easier said than done because then the comparison all kicks in which boy does it comparison and i think there

is nothing like that someone actually said let me read it word for word goodness they're coming in thick and fast i can't find it ah this person said being jealous basically dealing with being jealous of your friend even though you're happy for them and so many people basically said the exact same thing as well this person said being jealous basically dealing with being jealous of your friend even though you're happy for them and so many people basically said the exact same thing as well and i know we have we've spoken about all of these things before i'm sure but i think it just is but i don't know if we said this on the podcast or um if this was before we started speaking but i think why friendship is such a good podcasting topic for us on this podcast is because so much of i think friendship stuff with where we're at and whatever so much of it

goes unsaid so much of it is going without saying which means that there's so much room for problems but it's almost like you're in a friendship with somebody and they don't know you've got x amount of secrets you've got x amount they don't know you're both a friendship with somebody and they don't know you've got x amount of secrets you've got x amount they don't know you're both in different states do you know what i mean yeah i think there's just so much like unsaid and it's it can be really dangerous yeah when things are things like it's one of the worst oh it's such a bad feeling that feeling of being like i'm jealous of someone and i we've said it so many times in this podcast i think the only fucking fix for it is to say it i really do think one of the only ways that i personally have ever been able to get through

those dynamics with people where there's like a competitive element is just to come clean and be like i feel really competitive with you right now like are you feeling that too well i just felt so jealous when you went to that party that i didn't go to like whatever it is i genuinely think the i don't know there might be other things that i'm unaware of but for me it's always been like we've just got to look each other in the eye but that's having the privilege of someone who can who can do that with you but those are the those are relationships that i would value as in if it's someone if it's fucking sally down the road oh fuck that bitch sally again sally with the trainers if it's her then it's like yeah okay i don't need to tell her but if it's someone that i'd say okay

this is my my friend i care about them but i'm noticing feelings are coming up on my end or i can tell from the the lashes i'm getting that feelings are coming up on their end i think it needs to be like have things been weird because i think can i actually read this one question yeah because it's it's not even a long one but it came through in parts and it really caught my attention and it kind of links with what you're saying and it's like a real someone's really asking for help here and i know for a fact we won't be able to give it to them but i think we can try this is the thing with us being like we're gonna answer your dilemmas it's like we are clueless but we can talk i actually don't like doing that right okay i've got it i've got it this person said i just i almost think

because it's they're so close to what you're saying but it's almost like right let me just say it this person said this is a huge problem i have immediately with the self-awareness this is a huge problem i have and i don't know what to do about it to be honest i feel kind of ashamed first of all don't first rule no no first rule never feel no shame and no guilt to be honest i feel kind of ashamed and right to be honest i feel kind of ashamed but i don't really know why i can't keep up female friendships it gets more interesting though they say we always start are super super close like sisters more than friends i want to be with them all the time and talk to them about everything but interesting here we go but then like a switch flips i start

finding them very annoying and picking out their flaws even if they don't really make sense or if i know i shouldn't be doing it and i always feel so fucking guilty for not being able to keep up long-lasting female friendships please help i don't capitals don't want to be a pick me girl who's only friends with guys because i'm different quote unquote i want to be friends with girls because girls are amazing what is wrong with me and i just feel like that that is such a fucking good question it's so good so many people will be able to relate to that as well 100 100 i almost feel like it's a problem with like when you are close to someone like sisters if you were sisters or if you were close someone like sisters you would say you're annoying me today yeah blah blah blah and then you'd get over it but i think it maybe is this learned thing that

as female friends we have to be so um courteous and polite and maternal all the time and not mean you can't be you can't be a bitch basically there's this fear i think that women have of being seen as like not nice or not a perfect person yeah or like shame around having negative feelings towards someone that you get annoyed within that first day feel like you don't you can't say anything yeah and then from there on it's gonna build and build it's building and building and building this is why it's so good to catch it early and it's all because you didn't say that one day oh the way you put your shoes on just annoyed me even though that is rude i think part i think it's not just i can't be friends

with female i can't have friendships i think it's like i have a problem with being perceived as rude and i don't let my anger out that's so true that is so true i just that's just off the top of my head just now i actually haven't even thought of that but i think that's kind of it for me anyway i completely agree i've really noticed that dynamic happening a lot more like in groups because i think it's one thing when you're building a relationship uh building up a resentment on your own of one person oh the shoes annoyed me oh that fucking comment that annoyed me all right sally sally again you said something about shoes they did up their

shoes wrong that's what i was going um but sally's back again um and all the little things or the way they fucking munching

their crisps is annoying me whatever it is everything's annoying annoying annoying that's one thing but what i have noticed more

is in a group um as soon as you voice that basically when bitching starts kicking in when you voice annoy like an annoyance about someone to someone then they voice that's it slippery slope person and then the snowball starts growing growing growing quicker than you can even keep up with and before you know it they can breathe and it's the most annoying thing ever oh dear that is why i i don't know i just have to preach communication

at all fucking points even though it's most boring fucking thing but it's but it's beyond communication i think what do you think i think it's i think it's you're you're feeling an emotion that you're not comfortable with you're feeling an emotion of anger or frustration and because you know that it's unfair and because you don't like feeling that way you have no way of dealing with it and you just bury it deep inside and it's all channeled towards this one person and then it just builds and builds and builds because what are you supposed to communicate yes you break the cycle break the cycle and just say absolutely i don't know why i'm having such an issue with you right now like this is on me I'm putting my shoes on and you

turn to me and go I don't know why I'm having such an issue with you putting your shoes on right now but I'm furious at you I would be so upset I I think there's permanent damage happening in a relationship there if you say something like that or not even you can't catch it in a shoe moment you can't catch it it's a lot to ask of catch it it's it's a lot to ask of someone isn't it it's one thing to say look let's try and be good communicators with each other it's another thing to look at someone in the eyes i don't know why you're fucking pissing me off today and there's no justifiable reason i think that's a lot i think that's not realistic uh do not say that unless you want to destroy everything you have but that's the feeling it's just oh fuck

off you're annoying me get out of my face that's the feeling because that's not nothing about them when it's fuck off get out of my face you need to fucking retreat because it's nothing yeah just go home you need to go to your room back to your bedroom um but i think what you can do is once you've cooled off a bit honestly once you fucking time out mate chill out think about what you're angry about um kind of what i need to do in life right now um i need some time to myself i think you're on top form this is my favorite version of you maybe this is my this is one of my worst feelings i think when i've got um inner anger but you're not coming off as angry you're coming off as like coming off as angry you're coming off as like sassy oh sassy girl yeah that's um i think you're being quite sharp and funny and just extra extra good it's a defense mechanism i'm coming out with

all the lines i don't know um yeah i think when when it's when you're picking up on weird shit like that then it's like yeah you need to take some time away but i think then after your time of reflection maybe you've done some journaling wherever you've worked it out in yourself it's not actually about the crisps it's not actually about the shoes it's the fact a few days ago you did this thing that actually i thought was unfair to me and offended my sense of self in some fucking way i'm sure it comes down to something you didn't include me in this thing it will probably come down to some actual tangible thing i felt like you disrespected me in this setting whatever it is it will come down to an actual thing and then just general wear and tear

the layers of you do your hair annoyingly oh i hate your choice sally whatever have you ever noticed the way that she literally it'll be like the way she always goes before she speaks there'll be oh god things that aren't even things there'll be no things that's when i think you're right coming up have you noticed she's on her phone all the time when she's watching a movie whatever it is you know she was late to things that's when your weird easter eggs in this episode of other episodes um i think you're totally right though if it probably does come from you're annoyed now with the way that they're putting their shoes on but it probably was because a couple of days ago you were in a dress and they didn't say you look nice and you felt like you know you felt insecure then after that i think we're all

smart enough to know it's not about the tiny little things those are just the things we mask our feelings of you made me feel not worthy you made me feel shit and now that i can kind of give you back one moment of it oh um your lipstick looks bad whatever it is and i think especially in this situation it sounds like someone you're going from super close to like being very angry like very like out don't want anything else though i i actually so it kind of gives me the vibe of like, for example, going from relationships, friendship to friendship that are like extremely close, like sisters more than friendship. Were those the words? It kind of gives me a bit of a love bombing vibe of like, we meet and we are in, we are

in, we are like, it's kind of an us against the world dynamic. It's us, us, us, and it's close as hell. And I, and I don't at all mean that like good things have to grow like i don't necessarily think good things have to like take time and all the things i think you can just go wham into a fucking great thing 100 chemistry but i also think when you identify the pattern of every single time i essentially fall in love with a new friend and then it always goes to shit i do think if you're identifying a pattern there i don't know maybe try giving it some space at the

beginning maybe try not going in for all your fucking eggs in the basket you are my person maybe be like let's not spend the weekend together i think even if you are falling in quickly i think that is probably make it that's why then the um getting annoyed with them becomes so severe to the point where you can't carry on the friendship that's why the friendship doesn't last is because it's been so built up as we're more than friends we're sisters like I really I love this person yeah then it hurts more it feels like more of a loss when they start to annoy you with whatever x y and z that they do yeah whereas because also then there's no basis of what the friendship looks like

without a bit without it being total love yeah without it being complete love we do everything together you're my person and friendships do change mutual everyday friendship friendships do change that time you can go through waves with people can't be that intense yeah i think i don't well i think they can be i think you go in and out don't you yeah but that's that i think that's what it is it doesn't have to be love to hate love to hate love to hate can it be love to neutral to really annoying love to neutral to really annoying whatever it is i think that can be fine it just i think when it becomes there's no there's no other option neutral ground of like unless it's i am you're you're more than a friend you're my sister you're you're um i met you a month ago but you're i'm in yeah i'm fully in there's no basis for what

that looks like when that love inevitably starts to just become like an everyday part of your life and i think that's also when you have like an idea that you're projecting onto it like it's almost anything less than that is perceived as a failure like well we used to be so close we used to be so close but you're not close right now and maybe that's okay maybe that's fine do you remember oh god exactly wicked smirk on your face yeah i just remembered a thing that um lucy sheridan oh yeah world's first comparison we all know a few times yeah um she would say a thing about friendship and she would say she would do a thing with her hands and she'd say prepare to diamond prepare to diamond to diamond prepare to diamond what she was

imagine you're doing like she was basically saying diamond the shape of a diamond is you're close at the top you move away at the sides yeah the points the diamonds and you come together again you're close again and that was her idea of like what friendship is and that diamond shape can go on and on and on prepare to diamond there'll be a video somewhere lucy sheridan it'll be on her instagram but it was like all of your relationships prepare to diamond that's how you're gonna go close you're gonna go away she's moving around she's going prepare to diamond and you know what she's right it is prepared to diamond guys yeah you're gonna be close you're not gonna be close just be prepared yeah because also that's the truth of how i anyway have experienced my relationships it can't be any other way in my life has been that how is it any other way it just it can't

that's when they're unsustainable to me if you think that it needs to be close the whole time also with these terms like um we're like sisters and all of this stuff um think about your actual like siblings if you have siblings or think about people in your life that you are really really close with you're not feeling this like you're not with them the whole time it's not like this intense and also like there's a part of that that's like i don't know whether this is my inner anger coming out today or whether i mean these things but i think some things it's like no it's my inner anger coming out are you sure no but go on because it's probably not gonna be that bad not saying it almost makes me feel like god what were you gonna say it's not bad but it's

almost like i think when i hear things that are like oh yeah we're like sisters or like we're like family you're getting can you be yeah you're getting can you be yeah can you be for someone that like you've met recently and you really have no basis of like it's telling yeah and all of these huge things like the basis of like your entire history with these people no matter how fucked up there's more complexity we know it there's like there's blood in this shit like we're not i don't know if i could be like oh my god my friend from work oh my god she's like there's blood in this shit like we're not i don't know if i could be like oh my god my friend from work oh my god she's like my family we're like sisters now it's like no no this is different this is essentially fell in love with a friend that's

completely normal you literally fell in love as friends and these things ebb and flow like but that doesn't happen with family prepare to diamond prepare to diamond i think prepare to diamond even does happen with family prepared to diamond happens with family but like the idea of like now they're so annoying but it completely yeah no i think that happens yeah no fucking hell i know some annoying people all right well maybe before we go i just want to say as well like everyone sent such similar things that i almost think if you've got this weird false narrative you've got this idea of yourself as you're just a tiny little speck in the universe and you're the only person in the world on your own just listening to this podcast right now you couldn't be more

wrong yeah genuinely you genuinely couldn't be more wrong yeah genuinely genuinely you genuinely couldn't be more wrong and i just know that there are people you know how that thing is like in london you're never more than two meters away from a rat yeah i know terrifying considering i'm sitting in london i think i think in your life you're never more than x amount of miles away from someone who you could who you could have a really loving relationship with and just be open and just cut to me knocking on my next door neighbor's door hey hey hey how's it going i think but you know cut to me and sephie walking around the same place we don't know each other

yeah like me sitting at your table strangers until you fall in love with them i wasn't thinking do you know what i mean i'm gonna start a podcast with this girl absolutely not i was just thinking this girl looks like cena gomez but i do think right shall we just also but just my finishing please i do sometimes like we get this insane privilege of like seeing everyone's inner thoughts and i almost feel like god it's squandered on us to be honest like if everyone else could see like the guys you've got no levels of like genuinely like what you're saying of like you are not alone in it like whatever you you're never more than two minutes away from a rat if you think about all your fellow rats listening to this yeah do think about the rat us little remys we're here it's true yeah you're never more than two meters away from a rat whatever

it is i think it's 10 meters please let it be 10 meters two is scary google look we start we start getting on these long little rambles now at the end this is the no no i want to know that i want to know google the rat thing rat london distance between you and a rat urban yeah six feet you're never more than six feet from a rat in a city british urban centers there we go it's horrible it's horrible if you think of it as remy it's fine i think i think it's lovely i think i can only cope with it if i think of it as um he's cooking up a storm in the kitchen sort of thing delish all right let's go right well if you don't hear from us thank you guys assume the worst so cute