Goes Without Saying - trauma & generational healing: are you actually wise or is it the childhood trauma?

Episode Date: March 29, 2021

it's the trauma talking. in this week's episode of Goes Without Saying, sephy & wing are unpacking childhood trauma, generational imbalances, and the desire to heal from the past. from problematic parenting styles to trauma bonding, we're deep diving into personal traumas for your listening pleasure! the human world is a mess, but that's okay.join the conversation every monday. speak your mind on our instagram! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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Acast helps creators launch, grow, and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast.com This episode of Goes Without Saying is full of dramatic shit. traumatic shit it's is us kind of trying to make sense of childhood trauma generational healing undoing the cyclical disgusting experiences that apparently all of us have had we are making one big trauma bond with you so join us i think this is i honestly think we've had loads of good episodes in a row right yeah yeah and this is our first one back after a break so I'm thinking yeah I'm confident in this one okay I don't know where to start I kind of feel like this is a conversation that we dance around you and I in our off pod lives oh that's interesting in our lives where we don't have a microphone in our face don't you think we kind of we're always talking about the trauma the trauma oh i thought you meant like we dance around it in

that we avoid it like we're like oh let's just not talk about the trauma of life i feel like we go in oh we go in thinking jesus what conversations are you in make no mistake absolutely we go in i hope we can convey some of that today i'm not sure how this is before we start recording we said we can convey some of that today i'm not sure how this is before we start recording we said i'm not one to give advice so although we are ones to give advice but we're just ones to give kind of unsolicited slightly off a bit weird advice that no one asked for rude advice completely inaccurate advice that we can't follow through ourselves that's the advice we give well it always is the classic situation that when we asked on the stories for your experiences,

your views on this topic, everyone, once again, you resounded so heavy, all of the same experiences coming back. It is kind of that nice thing of like, okay, I'm not the only one suffering. It's like, oh, right. We're all suffering.

It's fine. It's fine. Yeah. Reading them was quite, I guess a heavy experience. It's quite traumatizing yeah it was like oh fuck like the world is fucking bad my trauma is reading your trauma yeah yeah it's like some emotional labor right there but yeah some of it's heavy like the dms were heavy the fucking responses were heavy it's like oh god like the world is not a fun place it's at times stressful as fuck so let's try and have a fun

episode but also you know we're gonna go in as well yeah we'll try our hardest well this is kind of what i wanted to say i was gonna ask you this i don't think we've ever really spoken about this i think this is a topic that we've danced around not for the um not to try and avoid it but just kind of i don't think we've ever really gone in on it and it's kind of the question of is it ethical to bring children into the world it's honestly my fave discussion yeah it's the best discussion and it's even more my favorite discussion yeah since last night i finished the woody allen and mia farrow documentary and i'm thinking okay here we go mia farrow at the end of that was like it's my biggest regret meeting woody allen because

all of her fucking children were exposed to a literal pedophile a literal pedophile don't come at me saying he's not because you need to watch the fucking documentary bitch because it's literal literal pedophile married his daughter so sorry what i love the post documentary hi oh my god i'm in it there's nothing like it it's like i need to speak harry i speak directly to you it's so important right now that woody allen goes to jail it's kind of stop listening to the podcast and go and find him and track him down for the next like three to four days in my life this is my main mission but i had the same after the michael jackson one and i have the same after kind of watched something about adrie schumer fell in love with her like yeah this shit happens but yeah i we always discuss this like i think it's

that if parents are not emotionally intelligent which i think everyone's like yeah i am it's like no you should have some kind of test because you're not this is what we said everyone needs kind of like a 12-week therapy course or something before before they have kids yeah and kind of some kind of iq vibe but not iq but like some kind of like so how would you communicate in this situation well you can't you can't measure emotional intelligence we can like we have our own barometer but like i know or like you see a picture of a puppy in pain and how do you respond well yeah but they could be conniving enough to be like oh i would do the right thing and blah blah blah but in their head they're thinking i would kill it maybe if you could wire them up yeah you

could wire them up to some sort of machine that would show the insides of their brains the crux of it is everyone's parents are fucking mentally ill it seems especially also with our generation where kind of if you think that we are like the first generation that are really like tearing the lid off of mental health conversations and like really going in on i guess the navel gazing comes into it just like actually it's not even being honest about how we feel i think it's like having the knowledge and the education to be able to articulate those feelings and then to be able to identify them in others and blah blah blah that was never really available for the people who were old enough to be our parents so i'm not surprised to see lots of messages of people coming

in saying my mom did this and my dad did this and i grew up learning from this because that was what they had done because you know they're all kind of nutters like as are we but at least we run around saying i'm i'm insane we're at least self-aware i'm a psycho yeah we made a whole brand of being a psycho yeah i think this generation of anything we i mean we always talk about this in terms of parents where it's like i think there's a gap a generational gap in the our generation i feel cry over things and get upset about things but they at least know what they're crying over because we've identified in adults we know a bit that a bit yeah a bit um that it's almost like you are angry about something you're shouting about um potentially

someone not hoovering but actually you're crying about the fact your marriage is falling apart and that you feel lonely and you feel annoyed and you feel um completely abandoned by everyone but it's like actually i feel like our generation does have some kind of self-awareness to be like actually i'm really feeling a bit shit right now because of these reasons rather than there's a fucking crumb on the table and why is the crumb there like it's not about crumb yeah that poor little crumb victor crumb crumb crumb crumb victor i love you victor i do victor i do when we're apart my heart beats only for you okay get that out of the way well okay so our parents are nuts parents are mad well this is the thing no there's no thing

go on oh no i'd love to hear the thing oh well i didn't really have a thing but it was more i do think there should be some kind of measures in place. It's like, actually, are you able to have a baby? Because when I look around couples that I know that are pretty close to having children and getting married and things like that, I'm just thinking, no, no. No, not you.

You seem to think I'm getting married next week, which I'm not. Just because I would love to see i would love to see you in a dress i would cry you're just you just love weddings i fundamentally disagree with marriage but i love weddings that's the problem i love a party can we say that you used to write for like a bride yeah i guess we can say that like publication you pretended that you hated it no i do i i hate i think that weddings are a gross thing and it's like about a princess's special day whereas actually it's about a man getting a woman and blah blah blah yeah um and it's the branding of it's so disgusting and blah

blah but i did used to write like wedding blogs and things like that for um you were on wedding pinterest i big time was but like i was paid it wasn't a hobby it was my job i was like an intern and i got quite into it and i would do like best kind of great gatsby wedding ideas or like i love it i love it or kind of um but it was a fucking fun job i just got paid to like i did all the social media did the blog blog and you would do like ideas for a spring summer wedding colour palette. You fucking love it. You fucking love it.

Do you know what I love? I love a colour scheme. I love a theme. I love a party with a theme. You know what we should do? Should we get married? Not really get married, but like should we do a wedding? And we could do, oh my God, we could do such a fucking fun theme.

Oh my God, there was one that was like, oh my God, Harry Potter weddings were such a fucking fucking thing i think it was in the age of like kind of buzzfeed vibes were like popping off and i was working there it is big time buzzfeed vibes um it was kind of millennial vibes and oh my god it would be like a big wedding cake on the top is like the golden snitch fucking nagini's going down the aisle like it was mental it's like who the people it's like the people having these weddings honestly they should not be bringing children into the world they they're traumatized they have trauma yeah yeah can we talk about harry potter and trauma yeah oh my god let's do it well i do kind of think we find those like clutches like the kind of um it is it just kind of is like god that whole generation was

depressed so they fell in love with like the idea of a sorting hat to bind them to like a real family and you'll always be home at hogwarts don't make me sit it's like i'm such a ravenclaw yeah it's like you're not you just have no personality and no sense of identity yeah you're desperate desperate definitely i'm a hufflepuff guys it's like you're not you're just boring it's a bit embarrassing that it's so much of our dialogue it really is and i think it probably is um in some ways it's like the attachment to nostalgia and the kind of just the trauma of reality well it's kind of the trauma bonding yeah exactly it's kind of we didn't trauma well i guess we have kind of trauma bonded but we've also kind of the trauma bonding. Yeah. Exactly. It's kind of, we didn't trauma, well, I guess we have kind of trauma bonded,

but we've also kind of Harry Potter bonded when you, especially because we became friends as adults. So it's quite interesting to meet someone as an adult and then you find out all of the ways that your childhoods were similar. Wait, do you think we bonded over Harry Potter? I think that's so embarrassing. I hope we didn't.

No, you're right. We didn't. Please say we didn't. No, we didn't bond over Harry Potter, but we bonded over so what did you think about hermione's dress but we definitely bonded over me being like goodbye friend of her no one had made that joke with you before i don't think we did bond i think this has become a thing over the course of the podcast that we have like developed some kind of harry

potter language that we speak in that when someone mentions crumb then we start going crumb crumb crumb i don't think we've bonded over harry potter it's just some reason when a microphone is in front of us we literally can't stop it's mental fuck yeah it's funny oh god okay well i'm over that let's not talk about that anymore um so this person said i wish my parents figured out their issues before passing them on to me to deal with too yeah and it is kind of that classic thing i know loads of other people said about all of the things that they'll do differently when they have a kid and i feel like that's something that we kind of talk about a lot it's like i've definitely got ideas of what i will and will not be doing with my own children if i have them about you know just just from your own experience i kind of it's interesting to think in that way the trauma that one's parents have given to them is actually

the trauma that was caused to them by their parents too and they yeah in the way that i could say oh my mum did this and that traumatized me blah blah okay well her mum my grandmother did this and that traumatized her and it becomes a very cyclical the generational cycle of trauma and each generation it's kind of your great great grandma didn't like the way her mum treated her so she's like she felt smothered by her mum so she's like i'm gonna give my kids free reign then that then she gives her kids free reign she's like oh god i was too free as a kid like i was all over the place i'm gonna really smother my kids next one oh i'm gonna it's like okay so we're just doing this big give and take between i'm gonna be kind of a clingy mother or

kind of quite um a disinterested mother in some ways and things like that and of course there's been people down the line that have thought the exact same situation as us but our parents parented us we'd hope in like a way that they've thought about how would i like to parent someone and that probably will be based on how they were parented and try a sort of a rebellion yeah or um a continuation of all the things that they liked too exactly but it's so true because i remember saying to my cousin years ago i must have been like 17 and i said like i just you know if i ever have a kid like I will always like make sure that they have blah blah blah you know like had some sort of idea of what I would be like as a parent yeah because of what I would have wanted at that time and I remember him saying to me like but your kid might not want

that exactly yeah the lessons that you've learned now aren't necessarily the lessons that your child as their own human individual will need to be taught you're projecting your desires onto your child exactly yeah which could just not be true you're thinking oh i would just i would definitely give my child a bike i would definitely give my child a bike all i wanted was a bike as a kid it's like actually your kid might literally be like i why the fuck did that bitch give me a bike that bitch yeah i wanted a scooter like it could be anything yeah yeah bikes are embarrassing yeah because also i'd be like put that helmet on and they'd be like no that's so lame yeah like you're not going out without a helmet but it's so true but it's all kind of

i mean all of life is kind of a projection exactly like it's just kind of everything is you find it i will find a way to take anything personal like give me 10 minutes i can do it exactly everything is kind of the way that you perceive anything is just your projection of it yeah that's the big fucking mission of life isn't it to be able to have empathy and see things from different people's perspective and kind of put yourselves in fucking woody allen shoes and be like oh why did he do that did he have some kind of fucking trauma not villainizing everyone even though he is the fucking villain of that situation but the fucking mission of life is to be able to view everyone with fucking empathy and see this as like a collective not this like bunch of individuals that are all against everyone

so it's so easy to look at your parents and be like they fucked up in these ways but it's like let's look at why they fucked up in those ways let's look at the fucking world oh my mum had like um eating disorders that then she then passed on to me it's like yes because look at the state of the world look at the absolute state and look at the patriarchal messaging that she was given age age three five seventeen forty blah blah blah and yeah no wonder you have it too and her parents were born in the 40s and they're dealing with a kid with an eating disorder that is not something that anyone in that would ever talk about yeah would ever be able to comprehend in saying that though

do you think there is a lesson that you would carry on if you were going to have kids like what is kind of what do you think is your thing that you would make sure of interesting I think in loads of ways I'd want to continue a lot of my mum's behavior in a lot of ways that it's very much um a close family unit like sort of we'd have breakfast cooked every day and like sort of crafts after school things like that I would I loved that it was very creative and like um that's fun wholesome wholesome place almost I think I would really want to do that but i think i would also really really really want like honest communication authenticity from from all angles just encourage and it really was encouraged in me as well but i think it's just i

would want to take it next level we do don't we i want to amp the communication up the authenticity up yeah even more What about you? Yeah, I agree with you. I kind of think it's communication is hard because I guess also it's kind of like, I can't make my child my little kind of project, like my little kind of school project. And also a little doll almost. Like, are you going to wear all this? Exactly, yeah.

I'll raise them to be a really great communicator. It's like, I think we've just got to see who they are. Literally, yeah. But they are largely who they are because of you it is really really bizarre and also there's the ego of wanting to have it's just so common isn't it that a woman wants a daughter and a man wants a son all of this stuff and there's so much ego in that and wanting like a mini version of yourself do you though because I don't think I have no no I don't think I don't think I think that for myself, but I think there is undeniably ego in having children

and wanting kind of a do-over and wanting to protect something and kind of feed it all your knowledge. And be loved by something, be important to someone. And before you know it, you're kind of the failed musician dad that's making your son play guitar and things like that. It's like, oof oh let's just stop shall we

it's like dad i don't want to watch school of rocker again i do dewey finn man you're not hardcore unless we live hardcore so there's obviously a big generational but also kind of the instagram revolution of like healing and like aesthetic self-care self-help vibes kind of us um it is kind of interesting like there's a million kind of psychologist pages on Instagram and stuff like that it's more readily available you're not flicking for a library going like oh I need to find like a somewhere a book about like childhood trauma not even it would just be like yeah my childhood was fine but actually you were raped consistently by kind of your uncle it's like god that there's being able to articulate and

identify those experiences really um have the language yeah and have the language is a really new thing i think or really um just always a very complex thing that we actually don't spend time off on as a society at all i thought it was interesting but also horrible how this person said in response to the story they said it's crazy how writing this anonymously still feels like i'm asking for attention oh that's so interesting at the beginning of the episode or just a second ago just a moment ago we were saying how there's a real like generational thing and like you know everyone has the dialogue now of their mental health and blah blah blah but also it's kind of what we've spoken about before

of everyone can say oh yeah mental health mental health but having the actual real authentic conversation i guess well having the real heavy communication is still very much like missing or still very much um there's still a lot of stigma there's still a big taboo yeah it's still very difficult i think part of that is because it's the thing with communication of like you can only match the energy that you are receiving like i could be really trying to communicate with you but if you're not looking to hear it we're gonna have to call it a day because nothing's happening and it's only gonna make things worse but then i also just think it's just interesting that we have so much kind of

shame around our own life experience and then before you know it your life experience is over and you're dead and you never really got the chance to live as the authority in your life and own your truth and own your experiences own your truth is such a wanky phrase but it's so true it's fucking true own your story man i own your story man i'm in a man mood today i'm angry at the man own your tree man yeah fuck the man honestly fuck the man fuck all men men are trash not just one all of them just kidding yeah goes without saying that's saying baby there are so many men we love fuck off um hashtag not all men yeah i think there's this weird idea that we all have that we know that like at the end of your life you die it's fine but also i think there is this weird

idea that there's like um a tally chart at the end and like who are the winners who are the losers how well did you do did you communicate all your feelings like did you overcome your trauma it's like actually if you die never overcoming your trauma, is that not kind of fine? Yeah, absolutely. Is that not kind of okay? It's like, you were raped as a child, you had a suicide attempt as a child,

you had a really severe eating disorder as a child, any of this shit, is it kind of okay? Yeah, your life would be a lot more pleasant if you can come to some kind of peace with that. But if you literally die, still working on those things still struggling with those things there's not some fucking big man god in the fucking bouncer in the gates of heaven going sorry mate uh you actually failed your life because you didn't

overcome your rape no that's a fucked up thing to happen to you and you don't need to sort of come to any overcoming of that even i think it's kind of fine to just live with that you don't have to find a reason kind of everything has a re has everything happens for a reason it's like you don't have to find a reason or an excuse or a justification as to why these awful things happen to you because it actually had nothing to do with you this is not your fault this was not your responsibility that these traumatic experiences happened to you yeah and i also think just maybe time for the reminder especially if we're talking about childhood trauma that i think a lot of us traumatic experiences happen to you yeah and i also think just maybe time for the reminder especially if we're talking about childhood trauma that i think a lot of us think back on

those experiences especially if we're still thinking like oh i you know i deserve it or whatever have not really understood that actually it was not your responsibility i think also we look back and kind of you just place like a smaller you in that situation just you in that situation everything was happening to you but actually it wasn't you it was a child it was happening to a child that is really important that shift of perspective of like okay it wasn't you now dealing with that situation it wasn't it wasn't you it was a baby yeah you didn't have any responsibility to speak up this is why i mean you can see this in both the woody allen documentary and the michael jackson documentary i was gonna say here we go

woody allen it's really often that survivors of rape and child abuse only realize really what happened to them when they have a child themselves and that child gets to the age that they were molested or something and then they're like fuck that kid did nothing wrong you're like that child is so young that kid does not have to speak about this that kid did not flirt with him it's a fucking three-year-old child and i think that's really common because then you can put yourselves in the perspective of that child and be like fuck i realized what happened to me how was i to know i wasn't running around suggestively naked i was a four-year-old kid playing in the pool. No. That man was a fucking paedophile. Woody Allen was a paedophile.

Fucking hell. Is a paedophile. Yeah, but it is so true. It is seeing the, like, naivety and the innocence of a child that you think, oh my God, I was a child once. Yeah. We used to be kids. Cute. Cute.

But yeah, fucking crazy. I think also there's the hindsight bias i believe it's called according to my therapist of being now an adult and having the knowledge of everything or just even yeah i mean i would see this in things that i arguments i've had a year ago and now i have the hindsight bias of being like oh well now i know about this and this and this so i i acted really wrong there i shouldn't have done that yeah but at that time did you know that at that time what were you dealing with and like yeah it's so easy to look back on your past and be like I just should have left that situation then or I just should have said that and just communicate it's like well you couldn't at that time you couldn't

maybe just forgive yourself for that absolutely it's it's not a helpful thought to have in that way but you could make it helpful by thinking, this that I'm thinking now of like, I could have, I should have left. I should have done something. I should have done this. I should have done that. It's not helpful to think in that way, but it's helpful as a kind of barometer

that you can use to measure how far you've come of like, okay, well, that's amazing that I can see that now. Look at how much I've grown from that moment and look at who I am now. That I think is a nice way that it can be like a helpful thought and kind of turn it from like I should have done this into like I see why I didn't do that at the time and I'm happy that I have grown in life to know that I'm a stronger person now or I'm a different person now or I've had different experiences now and if that situation came up

again I would deal with it differently now or I can help someone somebody else that's going through that I now have the skills to help them with that now and also that you were not not strong then yeah yeah yeah because i know i said like oh you're you know you're strong now you're stronger now it's like yeah you are stronger now but you weren't weak then just because something was happening to you or because you were going through a human experience yeah you you did not pretty much nothing you can do as a response to something that somebody is doing to you can be wrong it's like yes okay murder rape bad things are wrong those all active things are wrong but i almost think it's like is any response you can have is not hurting anyone else can it be wrong?

ACAST powers the world's best podcasts. Here's a show that we recommend. Nature. I've got a gay rooster named Francois. Is so gay. These rams are gay. I'm studying gay animals. Does that mean I'm gay?

So why don't more people know this? I'm Owen Ever. I'm Lane Kaplan-Levinson. And this is a field guide to gay animals. A podcast about queerness in the natural world. The animal kingdom is queer and we are a part. Find a field guide to gay animals on Spotify, Apple. or wherever you get your podcasts. Acast helps creators launch, grow, and monetize their podcasts everywhere.

Acast.com. There's no fucking guy at the end of this that's marking you. Do what's right in your heart and you're fine. I know that's prettyolesome but just do it no i love it i love it i think one of the things that i am learning now or like have been learning or one of the things because we asked on the story how has drama changed you and how have your experiences shaped you and all of those things and i feel like one small fraction of it for me is that I definitely feel like I had a real phase that I'm finally kind of seeing the lie at the end of the tunnel to come out of. Of really not allowing any negative feeling to be valid. That's so interesting.

Yeah. In the sense of like, I couldn't be annoyed at someone. Like I felt like I didn't have the right to be annoyed at anyone. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Do you get what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I do. what i mean yeah yeah no i do i do get that i've said this to you i've said this to you i usually don't shout about this to you i think part of it is a people-pleasing thing a big part of it that you kind of learn to just cooperate and kind of um but with a smile like not just cooperate kind of overdo it and overcompensate and never feel like

you actually have the right to be like annoyed anyone or angry with anyone you don't have the right to be upset because it could be worse and blah blah blah it's just i feel like you hear all the is we say this all the time you can see a graphic with a beautiful quote on it and you can know that it's true you can hear like a a life kind of mantra and you can know it to be true. But it's until something hits you and you know it for yourself. Yeah. Then the cliche doesn't matter because it actually hits different. And for me, one of them, which is not really even a big deal, but here I am spending 10 minutes talking about it,

is your feelings are valid. And I'm like, oh, cringe. But also so true. Yeah. So fucking true. It is things like that whereas to someone else that could be so like yeah duh to some people it's like and it's duh to me but until you learn it sometimes you feel it because i think i'm having a similar thing at the moment with kind of

trust your gut or like trust yourself trust the timing of life which is such a phrase that you hear and i think sometimes these stock phrases these stock phrases you're just kind of like um they just wash over you fucking hear them so often but sometimes when it's like no fucking like trust yourself it's like yeah okay it fucking hits yeah it's so true suddenly it hits you just say it a bit different a slightly different accent and it's like oh my god yeah shit why didn't i think of that i was just letting that wash right over me sometimes they do hit and it's like how we're obsessed with jim carey at the moment i love how there's been a two week period and we're still obsessed with jim carey we've had a break but we're back we're still loving jim not a break from him not yet not a break from jim never a break from jim if anything we've amped up the gym

never a break from jim but it's it's like the gym never a break from gym but it's it's like him oh my god what was the quote it's right here on my notes let me get it up oh god he's honestly fucking life-changing he said kind of you're getting out a giant scroll like the jim kerry scripture it kind of is literally a scroll it's like so much on my nose but it's just a little quote it says risk being seen in all of your glory and it's like that to me is like oh whatever jim whatever jim but it's also like no like just risk being seen just fucking risk it be real that's the thing you just need to say it back to yourself in a different voice you just need to emphasize a different word every time you say it risk being seen you know your glory then it hits

no it's so fucking true it's like yeah just fucking do it it's so fucking true but i think it hits different when you you didn't realize that you needed to hear it and then you hear it again you basically you hear it it washes right over you yeah you have some sort of life experience or some sort of new thought or you come to some sort of conclusion on your own and then two weeks later you revisit you that comes to you again that same quote and then it hits different yeah yeah yeah because you're a new person literally you're not the you that you were when you first saw it miley cyrus wakes up every day or whatever a new person or whatever you said in like 10 episodes ago yeah every night she says good night miley new bitch tomas it's so fucking true though it's so true something that kept coming up a lot is the idea that because of your trauma

or whatever happened to you you're then scared of being weak and i think that's one of the most interesting bits of it is that you then have not only a guilt about what happened to you and how you dealt with it and all of this shit that we place on ourselves but then it's like okay well i must now perform strength i must now perform i'm not a victim i now must perform no matter how much i'm suffering inside everyone must think i've overcome it because it's just like oh it's happened 10 years ago it's fine it's fine it's like no it's it's not and that's okay yeah it's kind of you don't have to build a whole identity around getting through a traumatic situation yeah you don't have to because then you're you're kind of all you're

doing is traumatizing yourself again because it's the classic you need someone to sit you down and say your feelings are valid yeah by not allowing yourself to be vulnerable god i actually hate us the words that we come out with it's like god yawn like cringe but so true cringe mean every fucking word cringe yawn disgusting it's so fucking true um but it is it's like you're only traumatizing yourself over and over again by yeah performing strength or to be honest you've you've completely got the wrong end of the stick of what it is to be strong completely it's a real like misconception of of strength it's the performance of strength it's kind of the weakest thing it's kind of the weakest link

with what's her name is it like sue yeah we're like hannah or something and robinson it just came to me it came to you yeah well i'm the weakest link there sue sue and anne have the same energy to me they do yeah um but yeah um anyway moving on from the weakest link and robinson i kind of screamed that into the microphone right anything else no kind of she's listening she's like oh my god i don't think she's in our demographic our number one listener and robinson is like fuck like that is a real harry i speak directly to you moment quite a common name so it could be someone else's name is that you're annie robinson you're like what the fuck which is quite stressful it's kind of shout out to all the sarahs

listening shout out to my girl ella no you're listening babe i was gonna do i was gonna try and like rip off the joke but i couldn't come up with any other name than sandy like shout out to sandy oh sandy baby if you are called sandy listening now you're shook because that's like who is called sandy kind of get back to ride out high come on sandy stop playing wrong decade babe okay um yeah performing strength but yeah i think performing strength is something i mean i fucking do this like i really relate to just like um just like terrified of looking weak terrified of being patronized so i completely get it it's like do not fucking patronize me i'm on i'm kind of above you like i don't fucking need your fucking pity bitch but all that is is literally your biggest insecurities being like please don't look down please don't see please don't know like it's yeah it's not real it's just

purely fear just masked as i don't need your fucking pity it's like yeah you really actually do need it yeah you can do like a little bit of pity maybe a healthy amount just take some fucking empathy and take some sympathy right now like it, it's fine. It's not the end of the world. Yeah, yeah. I mean, it is the thing. The thing that makes you weak is your dependency on looking strong. Yeah. Because it's not real strength.

It just needs to be flicked once and it all crumbles. So it's not fucking strength. It's built on fucking dust. Yeah, yeah. Someone said, and this kind of goes into it, they said... Someone said, it made me, their into it, they said, da, da, da, da. Someone said, it made me,

their trauma made them grow up so much faster. I was an adult at 12 and it made me very independent. And I was going to say, I feel like this whole strength thing is also obviously gendered. But it is kind of, especially with kind of daughter vibes, just even the word daughter,

it just carries a weight versus son it's like your son is kind of son sounds fun doesn't it in the park and your daughter is like in the kitchen being a son it's like oh you just walk in you're the son you're the son of life you've been playing football daughter is like a whore yeah yeah don't go and get beaten up by that boy who's too too much older than you like you know son is like you've been playing football all day you come home call your mom a bitch and then eat her like lasagna and then you go to bed and you're like oh fucking hell and she kind of strokes your head she kind of rubs your tummy because your tummy hurts because you ate too quickly but a daughter's like you've been cooking that lasagna and then you also you're like oh why doesn't he wash up the brother and

then the mom's like leave him alone yeah oh my god the daughter is kind of i've got a tummy ache too she's like you've always got a fucking tummy ache there's always something with you yeah i mean what a luck what a privilege to be a son i feel like it just sounds so different daughter is like oh god don't make me one of those really daughter is kind of a commitment daughter is your kind of cleaning up the of you're not gonna get married and you have to rub your dad's feet when he's old and tired daughter is the commitment of like a son ends at like 18 21 25 daughter is for life yeah daughter is for life generally speaking well it's also kind of like if i have a son i'm relieved if i have a daughter i'm scared i'm shitting myself it's like oh fuck okay it's a girl it's a new level of protection here that's gonna be needed If I have a son, I'm relieved. If I have a daughter, I'm scared. I'm shitting myself.

It's like, oh fuck. Okay, it's a girl. It's a new level of protection here that's going to be needed. Yeah. I also think it is that thing of aging or being wise beyond your years. It's like, yeah, it's the trauma. Like, yeah, because there's so many more.

If you have had to take on responsibility from an early age, of course that sticks with you. And then you end up, I'm just kind of the mum of the group. I'm just kind of take care of all my friends as well and then it's like i would like god look at my husband like he's just one of the kids and you're like man child it's so embarrassing and you end up doing all of that shit which i mean please if you call your boyfriend your man child

not your man child a man child any of that shit it's just bleak you need to look at what's happening yeah it's it's interesting because it's weird how yeah your trauma shapes you because your life experiences shape you so of course but it's interesting to think that you could build up this thing about needing to be strong or you build out this thing about needing to be like responsible dependable or taking care the tear caker tear caker the care taker the school caretaker yeah kind of mr phil um no he goes oh we're in trouble students out of bed still hot still hot you killed my cat he is the worst i think i i always you know in like imaginary games as kids where you'd all like

play a character i would always play filch that's awful why i think i saw him as kind of like a cheeky little kind of the cheeky villain well he's not being patronized that's for sure but like he's not evil but he's a bit of a like kind of goofy or this is even more random madam trelawney that's a fun role but it's definitely kind of kooky quirky she's not like other girls yeah it really is she's not like other girls and i would sing this song i'd go the grim the grim the grim the grim to the tune of pink panther oh fucking weird how old were you last week like young but it was like enough to know what harry potter was i mean harry potter 3 had clearly come out by that point the grim yeah the grim the grim it's a good moment sorry anyway um well it's just interesting how much it informs your personality because i think

a lot of us then it's true you get to that point where as an adult then you have your hindsight bias and you start navel gazing and you start wondering about essentially what we've been doing on this podcast for the past year of like okay what parts of my personality are actually me what parts of my personality came from this event or this experience or the desire to appear this way but i also think kind of the my overarching kind of sentiment about this whole thing is and i think we say this all the time but it's like don't add another layer of like not doing enough not being good enough shame and guilt or i have to figure this out or i have to be fully healed or let all of that damage be done and where you can don't be more damaging to yourself it's allow those feelings to be valid

and um it's kind of the pressure is off from yourself easy hope that helps yeah i just think it's choose choose to make things as easy as possible as you can for yourself like there's no point in adding it's already yeah we're in a pretty bad situation kind of globally yeah this planet is a mess hate to be the bearer of really terrible bad news the human world it's a mess it's a fucking mess i don't know what that's from but it is a mess hate to be the bearer of really terrible bad news the human world it's a mess it's a fucking mess i don't know what that's from but it is a mess it is a mess i'm not gonna tell you because what's it from it's from the little mermaid where he goes he's about to start singing sebastian yeah the human world it's a mess and it's so fucking true

loved him um but the human world is a mess hate to be the bearer of bad news hate to be sebastian but then it's like don't then make things worse for yourself by making your mind your one thing that you can kind of have some like sort of agency over some kind of it's you your little like solace in the world don't then turn that into a fucking nightmare where it's like right i've got to be compatible with this mess of a world no you don't you don't want to be compatible with this mess this world because it's a fucking state if anything you want to be thinking how can i make this as easy as possible how can i live with the most luxury in this disgusting place can i drop a bombshell yeah i think that's why i don't like love languages go on i think that's why i find it reductive

because i think it's the kind of of unhelpful navel gazing. If you're a person who's interested in love languages, generally, I think that is because you're trying to do the thing that we do of like, okay, but like, can I fix this? Or like, let me learn about myself through this lens and blah, blah, blah. And I think I can't, it just seems limiting to me. I know that it's obviously a much broader thing but I think the general discourse and like the rhetoric of love languages to me is limiting in the sense that it's like this is how you give and receive love everything else is incompatible um that you probably you know if it's quality time that's probably because you were abandoned as a kid the end and it's like it's probably it's not that deep like yeah there's a million ways that you give

and receive love and I just think it's a bit i think it's like a fun little quiz or whatever but i think people take it super deep and i agree your attachment styles can be incompatible with somebody at a certain time but i think love language is a bit it's a bit yawn to me it's a bit like it's got that pseudo psychologist vibe which i just don't like well it's kind of a bit like you've just found your myers-briggs type and you need to do another one of these oh love languages cool i'll go in on that and then there's kind of there's more they're like apology languages and things like that it's like oh look let's just give it a rest give it a rest i do love it basically i'm here for any fucking test yeah that you can do i love that apart from a math test get that shit away from me get it out of my sight

yeah but some kind of like you feel it's a kind of like do you strongly agree or do you strongly disagree i love that sort of shit and then it comes up with something at the end me too but i think that's because we i think a lot of people like a lot of kids like it's kind of i can just i can just see it now a lot of kind of people in their naivety cling to you start building an identity around something and it only ends up to, you start building an identity around something and it only ends up harming you. You create an identity that's actually, literally outside of yourself.

Yeah. You're like, oh, well, that test said I'm an INFP and that test there said I'm words of affirmation and that test there said I'm a fucking Hufflepuff. No, bitch. Yeah. Go in, you're looking for your identity and things that are so external

and that were made by some people you're never going to meet. Meanwhile, you haven't for your identity and things that are so external and that were made by some people you're never going to meet meanwhile you haven't left your bed in weeks you haven't actually participated in any sort of activity you haven't done any behaviors it's all very internal why don't we live an external life for a sec like why don't you just enjoy things why don't you just sit back and relax why the stress just would you find out more about yourself if you just do some yoga or go for a walk or meditate or something would you actually find out more about yourself cook yourself a nice meal or something yeah and if you sit on your bed going oh turns out i'm gifting better go buy a gift

that's the thing it's like why don't you just live your life and see i do love them like i think it's a really fun i i would 100 get someone i'm dating to do it like tell me your love for language that's interesting well i got my boyfriend to do it but I still like it's fun yeah it's completely fun but it can't be prescriptive I guess I think we need to do a whole episode on identity or the search for identity and things outside of yourself because we talk about this all the time we did want our identity right have we yeah I think so oh but we can do it again because our identities are always changing i guess we've done one on authenticity but kind of um when you find a new part of yourself or i think a lot of people have this when they come out or when they suddenly decide they're going vegetarian or

when they i don't know fucking anything get a new job blah blah blah you suddenly want to throw yourself into that fully and i completely understand that urge because why the fuck would you not community is amazing but also there's something to be said about you're not actually feeling about oh what do i actually think here and what do i actually feel you're trying to align yourself with an external identity to try and find something that's inside yourself which is just the most absurd way to do that a sense of meaning a sense of validation a sense of belonging like a sense of belonging which it's so common but there's no way you can find your identity from anything that is um through veganism through a system of belief that's mental yeah i think yeah it's also like you find a new

religion you decide that you're going to be a buddhist suddenly suddenly hi i'm andy and you built a whole fucking headspace app off of kind of your 10 years as a buddhist monk yeah and you're getting little tattoos that match that aesthetic and your kind of pinterest buddhist room decor and you're doing a whole thing it's like look let's fucking give it a rest mate yeah this isn't actually you you're performing authenticity you're not actually getting in touch with your authentic kind of essence yeah which is a hard task i'll give you that yeah but you're going about it the wrong way stunning i kind of feel like that's what this podcast is is is kind of it really is you really see us on a journey i know lots of people

are starting from the beginning which makes me feel sick like i i physically want to stop you and you'll be hearing those words we We hate to say it. Higher priest. Oh no. Higher priest. No. That's not the worst bit to me. I'm over that. It's kind of.

It's just the whole thing. I think it is. For me it's that. Someone put it on their story the other day. It was a stunning story. They were in the bath. But I couldn't repost it. Because it's.

Hi guys. Welcome to higher priest stairs. Oh my god. I didn't see that. We were probably still tagged in it. But it was literally. It's so stunning that you're listening to that but hearing though it's like god that's cute in the bar but i kind of feel like we've just come a long way as people that's what i kind of like because i was thinking of what to kind of say about like okay what what does healing actually look like and it's interesting because i kind of it just brings me

back to the same thing that i feel like i say in every episode of like oh you know your feelings are valid like all of those vapid things but they're actually kind of the most meaningful mantras I have and live by I do feel like this podcast you see us go through a whole journey I was thinking this last night because last night I had to look for clips because for something I had to I'm editing something together you'll never hear it but i had to edit something together and i was looking for clips and i was listening to like our old old old apps like pre-covid times and it's like we're babies but i think my point is kind of healing is like a daily thing and a daily practice yeah i i agree but i also think it is just in the it's just in the experience of life because it might not even be active i think that the term healing well it kind of implies activity and passivity and that it's like oh

healing it's like time is the greatest healer it's kind of a combination of the two i think that active healing then informs your passive day-to-day exactly behaviors like with the with the passing of time things will naturally work themselves out but without you every day showing up and you might not be actively calling that i'm doing my healing i'm doing my kind of shadow work like you don't need to call it these things but every day you're kind of working on these things and you can either be building negative sort of connections in your mind or sort of positive things and i do think that is healing but it's just it's less less conscious than you think almost yeah even though there are the hugely active things like going to therapy and blah blah blah listening to podcasts like this i think it's

about habits yeah breaking the bad habits because a lot of the things that keep you in a negative space are it's it's the projection of negativity onto others like it's kind of um it's just it's just looking for commiserations i need you at an ice cream party it's not it's not commiserations but you'll find the evidence exactly what you choose to believe when you see habits you almost think of okay well every time i text this boy or every time i go to that same place that triggers me but i think it's the habits in your mind i think it's that you have habitual thinking that you won't even necessarily be consciously doing but every time you get triggered you go down the same route and you're just strengthening that kind of thought process whereas every time you challenge that and think is that in alignment with what i actually believe like in my core essence of me yeah every

time you do that you're strengthening the idea that it's like okay well i'm trying to fix this i'm trying to move past this yeah it's kind of um the habit of seeing um a girl in a short skirt and thinking, oh, her legs must be cold, like fucking bitch, blah, blah, blah. But actually. Fucking slut. Yeah, that's not your actual belief. That's a learned belief. That's a learned behavior of you judging another woman through all of the things previously discussed on the podcast. If you're curious, go back to the beginning, I guess.

Start from the beginning. Yeah. It's things that they're uncomfortable to look at. it's every time you see someone thriving in their life how do you feel does it bring up an uncomfortable feeling okay why does that is that do you actually feel sad or jealous or whatever or resentful or do you just feel like you should feel like that because society has made you think that you should feel like that like i don't know you're performing a little bit of anger at the world it's kind of a bit quirky to be like oh like fucking couples like oh they make me sick but it's like but actually they're just like exactly yeah they're literally living a life

and they're then even thinking about you oh yeah and you're there with your bitterness and your resentment when actually it's like your microscope how stunning how fucking stunning can some things be like as much as this world i mean sebastian told us the human world the world is a whatever a scary place or every set it is also a scary place for a little lobster he's gonna be burnt alive yeah i know delicious honestly sebastian run it's also there are a lot of stunning things and it's just about finding those things which i mean sounds awful just look for the positive in life no don't do that but also do oh i hate us it's so true every word is truer than the last i hate them all it's like what i wish do you not wish it's like i don't wish it but it's like it would be nice

to be like oh i think they're fucking shit like blah blah blah and i complain and that is the temptation but actually when you like kind of think what do i actually believe so i don't even want to complain no but i want to listen to someone complain i don't really i do sometimes but not too much because i start kind of their feelings aren't valid suddenly to me what's with all the commiserations like it bugs me when someone's doing a crumb crumb when someone thinks they're crying about crumbs but they're actually crying about their divorce it's like yeah okay i can only listen to complain about all these things that i don't believe you actually want to complain i think it's just a habit exactly yeah i think that's the thing i think it's quite a

british thing as well yeah totally but also that's i think what i identify in the generational thing just fill empty conversation with complaining and a generational thing. Yeah. That is when people like we look at our kind of grandparents or older people in our families and we think, why have you not learned to fucking communicate that you're not crying about crumbs and you're actually crying about your divorce? But I think that's one of the main things that our generation looks at. It's kind of just quite bugging.

It's like, oh, you're looking at you're almost like you're searching for negativity. Well, people love their misery you get addicted to misery because it's just the story that you've told yourself it's comfortable oh it's so comfy to get out of misery is fucking hard you're gonna claw your way out of hell i'd like to see you try but actually jokes on me i would i would love to see you try more than anything clawing your way out of hell nothing more stunning is the only way but i do think there's something quite comfy about hell because there's something to blame it on yeah you've got a narrative about yourself that has stuck and also it's probably true you don't have to change anything you can just sit there and it's just constantly validating that that life is

shit and that isn't that is in some weird weird weird masochistic way a nice place to be like it's all bad and nothing is my fault it's like oh well that's quite nice well but the worst thing is is feeling like it's the kind of nobody's coming harry it's the knowing no one's coming to save you fuck so i'm gonna have to save myself i fucking can't be bothered i've got shit to do like i'm actually a bit knackered like i want to have a bath i don't really want to save myself that's so long it's just that's embarrassing i've got to try and make my life better i don't know how do you know what it is it's like fucking dementors suck me off suck the soul out of me the worst thing about the prison was the dementors honestly yeah literally suck me off yeah honestly dementors take my little soul

breathe it in keep it it's yours honestly mate don't worry about it yeah but you can be harry you you have to be if you have the energy you have to be it's the only way yeah it is the only option i was gonna say earlier and i thought it was a bit too dark but actually i'm gonna go for it otherwise just die now yeah yeah otherwise just kill us faster it'll only kill you faster oh now i can relax wait before we launch into harry potter thing i think you should clarify just die now go on before we go into it's kind of um it's in the sun or whatever yeah devil snare devil snare it's deadly fun but it's soaked in the sun that's right devil snare hates sunlight awful before we do all that before we do that yeah

rewind we should clarify but we've already done it now um well it's kind of like what you've got a choice you either live or you die it's kind of that simple i don't really care to elaborate much more it's kind of you can either try and have a decent time here in the game of thrones you win or you die exactly or you or you choose to die and i don't mean die by like you actually leave this earth i mean you'll carry on this earth every single day. It will be the same as the last. And you just get more and more miserable.

The end. Yeah. And that is a death. And that's your death. Every day a little piece of you dies. I've been there, babe. We had this concept. I believe we heard this from Bobo and Flex.

Yeah, you said, well, you said that she said that it was the term psychological suicide. Tell Poveri to tell ronald but so you can just keep going that's awful yeah but yeah psychological suicide right is that what she said we heard this concept from bobo and flex bobo told flex and flex told me and then i told wing that there's a thing called psychological suicide and now we're telling you now we're telling you there's a thing called psychological suicide well it's it's kind of it doesn't it's not new news every day a little piece of you dies unless you're

choosing to hold yourself accountable in the ways that you can there are lots of things that you can't change goes without saying but all of the little ways that you are making your life more miserable i don't want that shit anymore i don't't want that near me. Stop that. Cut it out. Just every day that you don't choose yourself, you are committing psychological suicide. You are killing yourself. You're killing yourself mentally every day that you live for someone else. Killing me.

Oh no. You're honestly killing me softly with your words. I was going to say killing me slowly, but that brings me back to kill us faster. Okay, this is a Harry Potter mess. We're so millennial. We're so Buzzfeed. I'm so sorry. It's so. Okay, this is a Harry Potter mess. We're so millennial. We're so BuzzFeed. I'm so sorry.

It's so gross. We're having a Harry Potter wedding. Nagini is going to give us away. Kind of the cake is like a tiered like sorting hat. Yeah, there's shit like this. Honestly, if you go on Pinterest and type in Harry Potter wedding. But kind of the guests come in and to find out where they're sat, they have to find their dead table place like through the sorting hat i think it's that the invites look like either

hogwarts invites or they could look like for sure um kind of you know out of the goblet of fire little bits come out and it's like a little fan it says your name on that's like the seating plan and shit like that oh that's cool that's quite a good seating thing yeah quite a good invite i thought you were gonna say apart from the hogwarts letters the the like tickets nine and three quarters thing that's fucking nice this is great i don't like this conversation can we stop it's making me sick yeah i'll stop any day i don't know what's worse hogwarts invitations or your feelings are valid both so pure to my heart hate them both equally it's just both i know i'm if i'm listening to this and i'm like oh i've just got back from work just shut the

fuck up yeah i don't think i've made it through no but if you have made it through well i guess we're leaving it there yeah people love people love the harry potter shit because i always see it people that's what people write in the reviews it's like god yeah they do but i'm kind of thinking stop writing that in the reviews yeah i think please let's not mention it let's make a deal you guys don't mention it and we don't mention it and we just move on let's keep that on the download every episode is just absolutely filled yeah that's just between us i made those jokes with you in confidence guys because it really undermines the like feminist message of the podcast we're like not all men yes all men but meanwhile crumb well the whole thing is i hate to make it um dark the whole thing is then underlined with the transphobe exactly

well that on top that is honestly the cherry the disgusting cherry on top of the whole thing it's a bit like oh shit what have we done i think it's more embarrassing that we think that we like try and do an intellectual conversation and we end it by going victor i love you i think that everyone's so fucking stupid including myself that in order to put into context not being saved and being decent to yourself i have to make it about harry using the patronus charm effectively really embarrassing i mean world's most stunning moment i mean that's gone down a storm that bit to be honest the whole thing's gone down a storm so and we say well i think we don't say enough thank you so much for everyone who sends in yeah your messages that we feed off of in every episode it really is the fucking um the meat and

steak the meat and does it have to be that can it not be like a Linda McCartney sausage yeah it has to be meaty you're the lobster it has to be meaty. You're the lobster. It has to be the lobster of, you're the lobster of this podcast. You really are. Are we done? Yeah, we're at an hour now. You're not, because I would have edited this right down.

It's kind of 20 minutes. We'll see you next time. We'll speak to you next time. We'll speak to you in the week, in fact. Follow us on Instagram. We're Sethi and Wing. By the time you listen to this, we might have had another rebrand.

No, we're sticking. We'll be far away away they can't find us right anyway out let's go let's go i don't know what's going on yeah yeah this is really too much now imagine