Goes Without Saying - trust, trauma, & daddy issues: dating men for the plot

Episode Date: February 12, 2024

podmothers sephy & wing enter the chat: spiralling on dating men, trust, commitment issues, attachment styles, learned beliefs and biases, conflict, communication, relationship standards and red flags, love, desire, and childhood trauma (as usual, goes without saying). ✷shop ✷ www.sephyandwing.co.ukhear more ✷ www.instagram.com/sephyandwingwatch more ✷ www.tiktok.com/@sephyandwing Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

ACAST powers the world's best podcasts. Here's a show that we recommend. Nature. I've got a gay rooster named Francois. Is so gay. These rams are gay. I'm studying gay animals. Does that mean I'm gay?

So why don't more people know this? I'm Owen Ever. I'm Lane Kaplan-Levinson. And this is a field guide to gay animals. A podcast about queerness in the natural world. The animal kingdom is queer and we are a part. Find a field guide to gay animals on Spotify, Apple. Or wherever you get your podcasts.

Acast helps creators launch, grow, and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast.com Goes Without Saying. You're listening to Goes Without Saying with Sefi and Wing. I'm Wing. And I'm Sefi. Thank you so much for being here. I'm really excited to get into this one. It's such a nice episode. It quite fresh at least for us I don't know on your end like the conversations

you've been having and the podcasts you've been listening to but for us this feels nice and new um feels like we've broken some new ground we've got some really interesting and I would actually say really generous insights from you on Instagram and I feel like we've actually been quite generous of bearing our own our own souls in this one too which is a bit scary but you know here we go it's all for a good cause yeah enjoy hey nice hello hey this is feeling cozy bab today. Feels like just yesterday we were here. Yeah it does. And we were. We almost couldn't keep our hands off of this. This episode. This episode. Although as soon as we decided to do it, well I was a bit apprehensive because it just feels like a big one but then we just were doing some talking before as we do and I'm already

feeling excited for it. Yeah it's just whatever we want to bring yeah what makes you maybe we should acknowledge what makes us feel cautious about it we don't want to give too much maybe i just feel like it's so possible to get triggered in this subject we're talking about you just listened to the intro i assume yeah but we're talking about men and this like reoccurring convo in the last episode we did that was a bit of a prelude to this conversation and how we have a bias in life from early experiences that leads us to think that like men will betray us men are dangerous all of this stuff and like challenging that bias i feel like because i've walked through

the vast majority of my life with this bias so much so that i didn't even know it was a bias until like we were talking about it or just like a belief that men not men are not really safe yeah beings um which i still do believe um in so many ways but i would like to have like a nice life as well um and also with the awareness of often fancying men and wanting to spend time with men but also having this like distrust in them it's such a deep subject and it goes back to like childhood and like to be honest the concept of like fathers and it's it's really painful territory at times like if i'm thinking about like my parents splitting up as much as it's like i'm 27 years old now this stuff happened to me when i was a year like i don't know 11 yeah it was years ago but in some ways i think god did i ever actually deal with it right so there's still some kind of rawness maybe that we're a bit scared to bring out yeah it's almost like how much can

you deal with something when you're or i can see that so many of my behaviors were or and beliefs were like determined by this event that how do you process something when you're a kid that kind of is seen as like quite a normal thing but also has clearly gone in very deep yeah i really think as well like so where do i want to take us because i really want this to be like a nice almost safe um yeah definitely you know like almost like a little train journey that you put a kid on in like a theme park and it's like why don't we just sit here that sort of vibe yeah it's like we're just gonna take a quick little just a little kind of drive around the the park do you know what i mean like let's

skip the queues like it's 2 p.m it's getting hot let's get out track ticket in the shade yeah let's do a little like i don't know why i'm trying to sell this fucking train to everyone but like come on board guys you're on but it's too late the barriers have closed you paid i wouldn't mind you're on a nice gentle almost like a bit of a safari of like we're just gonna we're keeping a firm distance we're overlooking the shit that's going on over there yeah but we are safe within our little cart we're in our car we're driving we're in our pink car nothing to worry about arms and legs inside the vehicle at all times and we're fine we're just taking photos we're enjoying yeah it's nice it's a luxury holiday if anything exactly we've got our snacks we've got our water

that's all just been to the toilet we feel great we feel great uh-huh we did ask on stepping wing on the instagram for your thoughts as well and i feel like that might be safer for us to stay in that and talk about your trauma than talk about our own yeah um but generally yeah i think the conversation will be shaped around the idea that our young early experiences are obviously really formative and shape our um kind of expectations and fears and anxieties and beliefs and behaviors maybe in later life yeah and something we touched on oh your sister replied with an anxious face that honestly sums it up that sums it up let me see which there's a lot of anxiety going on in this household i'm seeing oh that's an

understatement how did you what's the question we asked how did your childhood experiences shape your relationship and she replied with a grimace and honestly same okay well i'm here for you guys so there were some nice things which i think is really nice and i actually replied to her saying tell me about it love tell me about replied to her saying, tell me about it, love. Tell me about it, stud. Tell me about it. This person said, my parents never ever humiliated slash made fun of each other

in front of others, even friends. And I thought that was such- Yeah, love. Such a nice rule to have. Such a nice general rule or or like boundary to follow of like okay obviously we'll do our best obviously we're gonna fuck up in different ways but generally if we keep front of mind the idea that in public settings you're the priority and i'm not about to throw you under a bus to like score points with a colleague god could you imagine i mean it says a

lot about like loyalty and and actually a word that comes up a lot for me really which i think you made me aware of is respect how did i make you aware of you were just like before i can't this is you probably years ago you were like you think about respect a lot and i was like okay i guess i do yeah i reckon you do i think to be disrespected in a relationship it's low i mean it's kind of the lowest of the low because if you don't respect me that pretty much is the baseline yeah and i think that's also what i'm looking for and especially with a man it's a nice idea to think that a man could respect you and i think in my wrong and mind i think that even if a man he might think that he respects me as a human being but i don't know if he really does ever ever um but i

do really like that like respect and loyalty i think go hand in hand as like the baseline i can remember actually i think i remember my mum talking about this about her friends i don't know if any of them are listening it's not you um but talking about like how certain couples if people are talking about like bitching about their husbands how that is just like not really okay and i agree i yeah i think i took that in quite deep of like the idea of a partnership being like that is the person that you are ultimately loyal to it's a team and i do think like warning signs red flag if other people in your life know more about what bothers you about your partner than

your partner does yeah that's on you yeah like and there are people in my life where and it's again i now sweet it's not you i think it's you it's not necessarily like friends it's not from a friend group i feel like some of my friends might listen and be like oh you're talking about me on the pod i'm not it's not a friend situation but there are there's a certain couple in particular i'm thinking about where we know a lot about this guy and it's and it's like a meme it's like his character is like and it's like whenever anybody sees him or whenever he pops up it's like everyone it's a joke it's an eye it's a joke it's an eye roll the biggest conversation is like he's not good enough for her blah blah blah and i think something i also say when i'm in conversation about this is

we infantilize this woman and remove her agency by constantly talking so much about how much better she can do when ultimately she is choosing to still be with this person and so yeah there's something sinister i think about like almost it's like i'm not your guardian woman i know but i do think friends have a responsibility oh friends when they're in their right minds like i think if you are um quick to critique somebody else's life take a quick look around your own life quickly yeah just quick scan around am i in a position to be talking about this uh-huh but i do think it is the role of friends not to like control or force opinions down people's throats but to

um help their friends and like point out their like blind spots and things yeah that's nice way of putting it i think that's something i would want from my friends and i um i think that is one of my core things that is i need people to to be invested and i want to be invested in people's happiness yeah i think one of the best ways as well like to deal with that as a friend i think the best thing and maybe one of the only things you can do in that situation or like the best way to take it your role there yeah is not to control or like um you can't even necessarily come in and think you can fix yeah or judge i think all you can do as a friend is like remind this person that

you love all of the amazing things that they deserve and just keep that as like the priority that they can use that almost like as a compass to navigate with of like okay in what ways am i not getting what i deserve here yeah because i think that's also one of the first things and again in a gendered sense as young women one of the first things to go we see time and time again it's like oh don't worry about me and my needs and my respect and my whatever my happiness blah blah blah um I've seen so many people and have done so many times myself just been like that's okay I'll be fucking miserable in order to like make sure you're all right I'll keep you happy or whatever and i think as friends it's like yeah i would definitely say to seffy in any situation just reminder i think you deserve someone who wouldn't do this for example 100 i hate when

they do that i hate when they do how dare they dare they do that no how fucking dare they also i think for women it seems to me from my view from the things you've seen that a huge blind spot for women is men and the ways that they are treated by men not even necessarily in romantic relationships but the ways in which men are allowed to treat women it seems like there seems to be a bit of um a space between like what a woman is uncomfortable with and what she'll vocalize being uncomfortable about oh yes yes and i think that's the role of people to be like i know that you are uncomfortable here but you're putting up with this uh-huh and you're allowed to be annoyed about that or you're allowed to not like that by the way this isn't just something that you have to deal with like

it's encouraged to not like it's like you know of course that makes you feel uncomfortable and you're allowed to say that it makes you feel fucking uncomfortable yeah because it's horrific this thing that's happening yeah but you can't almost get perspective once like the biology of like lust and god let's let's even put love into it like once all of this deep deep stuff starts getting involved it is so hard to see clearly like god when i start even like having a remote crush on someone you start overlooking certain things even shallow little things but it's like look okay once say you're um 20 years deep in a marriage you by that point i've not got a hope in hell to be honest you can't see clearly and i think that's when it is so useful to have um

women that love you have your back totally and also i think um it's the classic thing that we say about like we learn i mean society tells us in lots of different ways that a woman is like for example most desirable when she just shuts the fuck up and yeah like lie back and think of england sort of thing like when you just keep yourself small and um like how dare you stand up for yourself yeah all of those things and it's that classic cool girl thing of like not being allowed as you said to like vocalize yeah things that are obviously fucking pissing you off and then it's like if you if you can't say it now when you're 23 and it's like kind of getting to you it's kind of jarring every time he brings it up or every time x y and z happens god forbid if you stay with that person

or just you never vocalize that that is the kind of thing that annoys you for the next 25 years there will be no and you only leave room for a ton of resentment like that issue probably won't go away you might even forget the way that that made you feel you might forget that that was even a worry that you had but you will be left with like an underlying resentment and also i think a lack of security trust in yourself a lack of self-esteem that you see yourself as someone who will not defend themselves like your perception of yourself is i am not worth standing up for myself or like i don't deserve better the most harmful thing actually i think

as like a young woman you can think is like i don't deserve better than this this is what i deserve yeah because that's when the risk the fear of losing someone that isn't worth shit anyway that's what i see so often someone staying in something because they're so terrified of like what the alternative is yeah because it feels like god the whole identity is wrapped up in this thing the whole life is joined in this way but actually if you actually played out what that scenario is it's so easy to see as an outsider god that is so much fucking better but when you're in it you can't even comprehend what your life would look like outside of it new song on telesys new album unreleased called um i can do it with a broken heart i think it's called oh love which

i love and i love i was just watching um the chats and reacts video about the track list so i feel quite um it's like really fresh on my mind i'm in the zone of like all the names of the songs but i feel i like that one because it kind of feels like as well something that we keep saying for like the past two months of like as you said like play it out i trust that you can do it it's like you know it might be shit and it might be hard but you will do it and it's kind of the fear of a name only increases fear of the thing itself it's like that would be so horrible if that were to happen but then it's like oh but then it did happen and you did survive it it's horrible until it's not and and the alternative is it stays it's

still horrible i hate to tell you it currently is horrible it currently well i don't know your life but if you're in one of those situations it was already currently horrible what so what's so bad about taking the risk until it gets actually better can i also say something fucked up on a separate note yeah just a second ago i like moved my foot and it and it touched the top of my tea but now i do want to drink my tea do you think yeah i'm not weird about things like that like my sock yeah on the mug honestly i yeah i've seen you do a lot worse i'm not gonna lie really not yeah what have i done well i just feel like we're not really the sort of people that would get bothered by like a hair in the food and things like that no not really but but what have i done worse i would love to know is there something on your mind

someone did ask us before the grossest thing you've done i would do a gross thing although i don't think i do that many gross things in front of you so that begs questions well i've seen a look i just go on put it out i haven't seen you ever turn down oh no that's so true just end the sentence there i know i can't think of an example but i i would be shocked if you said oh i'm not gonna i wouldn't partake that because yeah like it would happen because i agree like i'm gonna pick a hair out of my food rather than turn down the food absolutely there's no way that i'm not gonna eat because of that unless i've seen the person i really really can't like if someone spat in my

food i wouldn't be able to eat it though spit is different yeah it is very isn't it it's very different it's very different it's wet there's a wetness and it's and it's from the throat it's a mouth thing though i think for me i can't deal with that i don't love that but anyway well thanks for the support i did drink the tea it was great yeah as you should okay this is going really i'm not gonna lie i'm very happy about this nice yes how's everyone doing on the ride anyone need any refreshments how's everyone feeling yeah we can stop for a break if you want anyone want to go to the toilet you know what we could do little ad break oh they're lovely lovely here we go i have seen some questions do you still get paid if you skip the ads yes just do just hypothetically stupid though i actually don't know that yeah you do know that

because remember we had that meeting and emmy was like they can't tell if you skip the ads there's no technology because i've been telling everyone skip skip skip and then i was like shit actually where did i get that from yeah no skip skip skip hypothetically speaking allegedly if you were to be skipping ads i would do nothing but support you pat on the back always yeah not here to waste your time not that ads are a waste of time just to be clear no yeah if you're an advertiser definitely not a waste of time no you're a listener you know just do what's best do what you want to do what you have to do that your fingers move freely on the screen over to you wendy's small frosty is the ultimate summer refreshment and not because it's cool and creamy and made with fresh canadian dairy it's also refreshingly cheap. Just 99 cents until July 14th.

It's a treat for you and your wallet. ACAST powers the world's best podcasts. Here's a show that we recommend. Nature. I've got a gay rooster named Francois. Is so gay. These rams are gay. I'm got a gay rooster named Francois. Is so gay. These rams are gay. I'm studying gay animals.

Does that mean I'm gay? So why don't more people know this? I'm Owen Ever. I'm Lane Kaplan-Levinson. And this is a field guide to gay animals. A podcast about queerness in the natural world. The animal kingdom is queer. And we are a part.

Find a field guide to gay animals on Spotify, Apple, or wherever you get your podcasts. ACAST helps creators launch, grow, and monetize their podcasts everywhere. ACAST.com Okay. Okay, hope that was a nice ad break that was nice god knows what you just heard i'm just

looking through the um answers now okay so this is one i relate to and i actually i feel like my okay so here's where i'm coming from i don't necessarily want to out my parents like i don't want obviously like i owe them my life in a literal sense yeah um i'm not here to out them but i also don't feel like a freshness or a rawness i feel really comfortable speaking about what happened yeah the impact of like their choices their behaviors their relationship on me i also think maybe especially i think it's important because of that relationship i was the only child and i think when you're the only person in that experience it's very easy like kind of what you're saying earlier of like to not vocalize or not even be able to process the things that are happening like i didn't have

someone to turn to and be like that was fucking weird or like hang on did she just say blah blah do you know what i mean like just all of those things i think if that's your experience with a sibling you might take it for granted like just being able to look over at someone and kind of roll your eyes or like yeah just have that moment of connection with literally another human being of like that was fucked up um so and i also think it means that i can really easily um i think it makes it easier as well to kind of slip into the like the kind of classic traumatized thing of just like your memories start to slip or like you view the situation in a certain way or do you i mean like i don't have anyone turning to me and being like wait do you remember when blah blah blah and it's like if you're not refreshing your memory in that way they do

just kind of become a part of you and get lost in like just the making of you they just kind of get buried in your soul somewhere yeah so i'm sure there are so many things that i have no memory of like there are huge parts of my of my life that i just can't access like i've really wiped out yeah and it would have been really helpful to have someone else around like no this is what happened or like i think that's one of the weird things of like um my sister has often said things where i'm like this has happened and she's like no no it was this it was different yeah we're in the same room so interesting i remember it differently to she like she was like we had we ate baguettes they had like hummus and crisps and like french

bread before and i was like she was like that was after i was like no it was before it was before and like all of it like we have so interesting stories and also yeah i definitely take for granted from hearing you talk about this the amount of processing you do talking with others to other people that actually were there like yeah the amount just that you live through it yeah with someone yeah and that they they knew the whole thing i think it's just a different fucking um beast to do it totally well it's just it's just different and i also think it's that's such a nice thing um beast to do it totally well it's just it's just different and i also think it's that's such a nice thing as well to have someone who loved you then and has loved you through it and loves you still now like not to be cringe about you and your sister for example

it's like there's just that's why it's so special like and i will say oh my god i was saying this the other day to my boyfriend and it's actually really sad like oh no no this is actually so sad like when i was saying i was like that's actually fucked up go on it's not that sad it's actually not that big of a deal it's literally on a long list of things that have happened to me it's the least of our worries yeah but i was kind of thinking of it as an adult and almost like how i would view a child saying these things to me. Yeah. Which is, that's the tearjerker. That's the kicker. When you picture a kid, it's like, no.

A child, a little baby. Right. So in this, in this situation, I'm an only child. Okay. Yeah. All on my own, literally. Yeah. And I would beg and beg and beg for a sibling.

No, we're not having any more kids. No, no, no, no, no. Beg and beg and beg. Even like from under the age of i mean probably like around five i'd be like please please because i remember i remember weird this is weird this is kind of like maybe i'm giving too much about my parents but i remember my grandparents i remember my dad's mom saying like you know erin's five now so the gap's getting quite big like you should probably have another kid soon which is crazy pressure yeah but it wasn't happening anyway they honestly like thanks to her for trying like i

appreciate it it's like god this kid really needs somebody please please please please to my parents please please please i want a sibling i want a sibling i want a sibling nothing no sorry aaron we're not having another kid please please please please i want a dog i want a dog i want a dog no we're not getting a dog excuse me yeah at least give this kid a dog give the kid a fucking it's the least you can fucking do anything give me pick anything i'll take find this kid something to do yeah and i remember once saying to you and you were like that's so sad i remember saying sorry this is really like woe is me but it's just no it's kind of funny it's woe um i remember saying to you i just i remember promising myself like now as an adult i'm like if a kid ever said to me can we play play with me i would never deny them like i would

always like oh i'm fucking knackered but whatever whatever. Fuck it. I will never turn down playing with a child who's bored. And you were like, that's so fucking sad because it's obvious that it's like, yeah, you were like a sad, lonely, bored little kid being like, please play with me and being refused, being denied. Also, I think it says something to me of like, as a kid, if I was asking an adult to play with me decades like the fact that you've got no idea a kid asking you to play with you yeah like the only kids like i've babysat a lot of kids in my life the kids that most kids that i've met that like it depends what if they're with siblings if i try and play with them they're like fuck yeah like you're an old freak killing the kids that have asked me to play with them yeah are the isolated ones yeah it's a different um experience of playing totally so i think it's that i think that's what it's saying to me of like the fact that as a kid you were asking adults to play with you yeah that's like no get this kid a dog i think it's honestly guys

unfair how about get a fucking how dare you you're gonna bring this human being on their own into this world put them through some things yeah and then deny them a dog give me something jesus bought out of my skull anyway oh god get her a ds get her something yeah um like i would literally not just play with me it's like can you tell me what to draw yeah tell me give me something and they'll be like surprise me it's like give me something you fucking can't anyway just surprise me surprise me are you that fucking lazy just tell me a rabbit say and you could literally say any fucking thing and i'll draw there's not much to ask hey i'm fucking six years old i'm bored give me something jesus it's mental it explains so much about me truly it's crazy i've definitely been thinking about this recently just with like

you can really trace so many traits back to like early shit like everything even though that's old news like i've known that no i know we know that like we know that personality is formed so early like of course this stuff impacts you but it's but i think the older you get you it shapes you yes like actually it doesn't just like oh it drives you a bit left it gives you a hint yeah it's like slight little things no no you are the decision the things that happen to you in so many ways as a kid like obviously you're not and you're not defined by anything horrific that happened to you but so many of the beliefs that you carry yeah it's so formative are like direct and responses

to things you saw totally and i think in the way that you were like it doesn't it doesn't have to be this damning thing of like oh i'm doomed then so so i am the makeup of all of that shit it's like no i will give myself then i'll forgive myself for like snapping at work or isolating my like all of these habits that you might have are you fucking blame somebody else not your problem joking but you get it it's not your fault i think that's the crucial thing yeah like it's your problem unfortunately and it shouldn't be your problem it shouldn't be like that but it's not your fault boy that's a real distinction to make and i think actually

without that knowledge you carry it like it is your fault it's wild it's actually wild people have said so many good things let me have another read this is really lovely i think this is actually an important one for us to share yeah so they they the first thing they said my parents kissed in front of us a lot and always backed each other up which i just feel like god love love love love love but then they also said my father was so gentle i will never be with a man that raises their voice or loses their temper queen queen crux everything crux everything so man shouting i have a real thing about it. Like, so sort of, there was absolutely no, like, wait, let me get that right.

So like, wait, let me get it right. Men shouting, I just have a real thing about. I, for some reason, I would always talk about this with my sister, about how if my granddad who was like the most gentle sort of passive man like kind of um my grandma's the boss and he all he does is sleeps in his chair talks about sort of clock mechanisms and cogs turning and reads the paper that's stunning he's we love we love we love digging up beans in the garden like he's not he's my passive sort of guy love yeah if things got a bit like sort of

um stressful at the table he would sometimes bang on the table and go stop like just go and instant tears like yes honestly if a man shouts instant tears if my dad was to shout at me god i would be in floods of tears whereas if my mum shouted at me i'd give it back same old wednesday yeah excuse me what did you say if my if my sister shouted at me fuck you bitch if my brother shouted at me different thing i'm crying like fascinating if a male teacher shouted at me tears like what if a woman teacher shouted at you i definitely feel upset but nothing like if a man shouted and i think the and i've spoken to people about this so much and so many people have said the same thing it's like if a man raises their voice, it like triggers something so like in me.

And I don't even think I've particularly had like an experience of like men being like loud with me in any way. But I think it triggers something so core in like the way that I've been taught to like respect men over women. It's like, if a man, like the authority figures of've been taught to like respect men over women it's like if a man like the authority figures of this world if they shout at you or if they raise your voice at you

and you frustrated them to that level death it means so much oh my god like to a shaking level and um yeah i can't remember what the message was now but that just reminded me of that well it's also kind of the thing of like in that moment it's you almost the belief is like this man is not choosing me i am not being loved and protected by this man yes i'm not good enough yeah it's not being good enough for him yeah yeah fucked up so scary so fucked up yeah i do think that was one thing actually kind of going back to that person saying like my dad was so gentle i'll never be with someone who shouts etc yeah because agreed actually and i think one of the things that i like one of the best things that i took from my childhood and

like my relationships that i was shown like as a kid was very much like your relationship is about a balance and don't give too much sort of thing like don't let yourself get lost in somebody else i think that's like a huge thing for me of like i won't ever lose my sense of self or my identity or like my desire my wants my whatever the things that i request and need in life the things that i that are important to me i can't lose for somebody else and i won't let someone else expect me to bend over backwards for them with nothing in return like i think the exchange and like the give and take is everything yeah i think that's so rare though to be able to find somebody that like i even think the expectations of a relationship like a woman going into a relationship and a man going into a relationship are so different like i think a man

often reads that they are giving so much when actually if you looked at it like objectively it's nowhere even close to equal like so much of women's labor is just like unseen forgotten stuff yeah and actually i was just saying to this to you before we started recording but in this writing course that i'm doing we all had to go this is everything yeah it's honestly this is everything this is the crux this was unfortunately to hear actually yeah um it's a lot of like um there are lots of like sort of middle-aged women in the room or like women from all ages really but i would say a lot of them are between the ages of like 40 and 60 and everyone went around the room and they were talking about like their ideas for a novel and i was talking

about like how to have the access to this many women's like inner minds stuff they wouldn't necessarily say but because they're writing about fiction but so clearly it's based on their experiences i would say 80 of the women their stories were about a woman who losing her identity in a man stuck in a loveless marriage a lot of them killing their husbands um so much resentment trapped um having affairs their husband's been cheating on them or like so many of them were about like coming back to themselves they're lost in their relationships and it was harrowing actually yeah no it's wild because then can we also say there was like one guy and his story was essentially it was this woman in the shower.

It was porn. It was literally pornographic. It was literally porn. Which is crazy. Yeah. We had to critique that today. I was there earlier and the confidence with which he read a story about a woman scratching her legs.

It was like, it was like she, oh, I don't want to give too much, but it's like she, she was in the shower. She had like a rash. She's exploring her que her queerness it's like why is that on your mind why are you entitled to and like it's just all of the women in here are writing about how they resent their lives essentially because they've given everything to men and isn't it like and isn't it funny it was absurd that the man is writing about a woman in the shower interesting yeah it's unfortunate it's like that is actually is writing about a woman in the shower interesting yeah it's unfortunate that is actually like if we're writing here about write what you know essentially like

every single one of them it was shocking like it was almost to the point of like a bit of a gag like well i do also think just when you were saying that i do also think it says something in a kind of creative sense it says something about the things that women are taught to fear like it's a huge fear generally like in society for women to um yeah to be fucked over by a man like we are told in a sense from like the second you fucking open your eyes as a kid you learn sort of thing totally beware totally beware yeah and i think it's more than just a reflection of like it is it is but i also think it's something about the narratives that we're sold and i think there is a weird um it

kind of is like the kind of infantilization or like women losing their agency and almost kind of like being a bit generous i think with the power that we give these men is almost like we you know they're not all that yeah and people survive um crazy people survive worse than being fucked over by a man every day let's like be fucking real for a second no nobody here in this conversation is naive to the harrowing things me and you and harry of course nobody here and there is a big group of us here is naive to the horrific things that men do to women on a daily basis we all know it and women keep surviving women keep oh it's all we do living through it creating amazing things from it women keep teaching your favorite taylor swift lyric what is it honey i rise up from the dead i do it

all the time best line there we go the only line i can remember that's the it's cracks yeah that's the crap that is the crap you can do it guys you can do it and we're right here with you here we go we're pulling up now back we go oh look what we find ourselves we've got a little hat if you want to leave a tip exit through the exit through the merch shop on the left uk um love you so much guys hope everyone's okay yeah hope everyone's okay you deserve so much everything you really do and you are if you find yourself in a position that you don't like with a man for example you are strong enough to leave it your life is so much better without that shit you're divine you're divine you're divine if you don't hear from us assume the worst lovely episode wow so much better than i thought good one right great up yeah i thought if it could come naturally it could be great it did and i think it did yeah

okay baby should i should i take the intro yeah you sound like the man from your writing course okay So nuts around, baby. Okay.