Gone Medieval - Medieval Europe's Most Evil Monarch

Episode Date: December 30, 2025

Who was the worst Medieval monarch?Dr. Eleanor Janega teams up with the hosts of our sister podcast After Dark to delve into the lives of some of Europe's most notorious medieval monarchs..and rank them! From Pedro the Cruel of Portugal to Richard the Lionheart, and from Isabella the She Wolf of France to Vlad the Impaler, the team unravel their nefarious deeds and personal vendettas to decide who can be crowned as the worst monarch.MORERichard the LionheartListen on AppleListen on SpotifyQueen Isabella: She-Wolf of FranceListen on AppleListen on SpotifyThis episode was edited by Tim Artsall and produced by Stuart Beckwith. The senior producer was Freddy Chick.Gone Medieval is presented by Dr. Eleanor Janega. Audio editor is Amy Haddow, the senior producer is Anne-Marie Luff.All music used is courtesy of Epidemic Sounds.Gone Medieval is a History Hit podcast.Sign up to History Hit for hundreds of hours of original documentaries, with a new release every week. Sign up at https://www.historyhit.com/subscribe.  Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

From long-loss Viking ships and kings buried in unexpected places to tales of murder, power, faith, and the lives of ordinary people across medieval Europe and beyond. Join me, Matt Lewis, Dr. Eleanor Jarniger, and some of the world's leading historians as we bring history's most fascinating stories to life, only on history hit. With your subscription, you'll unlock hundreds of hours of exclusive documentaries

with a brand-new release every week exploring everything from the ancient world, to World War II. Just visit historyhit.com forward slash subscribe. Hello, I'm Dr. Eleanorianica and welcome to Gone Medieval from History Hit, the podcast that delves into the greatest millennium in human history. We uncover the greatest mysteries, the gobsmacking details, and the latest groundbreaking research from the Vikings to the Normans, from kings to popes, to the Crusades.

We delve into the rebellions, plots, and murders that tell us who we really were. And how we got here. One of the huge perks of working at History Hit is that sometimes I'm let out of the gone medieval dungeon and allowed to visit our sister podcasts. Recently, I did just that going over to After Dark to hang out with Anthony and Maddie, who are absolute gems. We had a brilliant time while I ranted about who medieval medieval. Europe's most evil monarch is. I had so much fun, in fact, that I wanted to make sure all you wonderful gone medieval listeners could check it out too. Today, our guest is, I think, possibly the only person who we could have on for this. It's Dr. Eleanor Yarno gonna go back again. Hello.

Hello, we love to see it. Now, Eleanor, if you don't know, first of all, are you on dry rock? What's going on? I thought she said, are you on dry rot? Is it like, well, that's right. Girl, get on a dry rot. If you're not like, what are you? you do. Ellen is, for anyone who doesn't know, host of our sister podcast from History Hit Gone Medieval alongside the brilliant Matt Lewis. And she's the star of a lot of history hit documentaries, right? You have racked them up, girl. In luxurious locations, we go to Yorkshire, she goes to Avignon. Yeah, we've been really whining about this today. Ellen's latest medieval apocalypse out now? Out now, yeah. Yeah, it's the cracker. Go and watch it. You've picked a smorgas

board of awful monarchs for us today. And we're going to go through the list. And then we're going to announce a winner. We're going to crown a winner of the worst ever monarch. But first of all, don't give us any names, but give us a sense of just how awful some of these people are going to be today. Okay, so we have rulers who are pursuing their own vendettas, which may or may not end up involving cutting people's hearts out. We have rulers who are doing things like just getting kind of bored of this whole, prisoner thing and killing everybody. We have got rulers who are also,

it's going to give the game away impaling rather a lot of people. Oh, I do. We know who that's going to be. What do you want me to do? It's Richard III, right? Sure. So yeah, there's like a lot of different ways to be a dickhead when one is a ruler.

That needs to be the next title of this episode. A lot of different ways to be a dickhead. Different ways in history to be a dickhead. Right. Okay. So I'm going to start with one of the now we're going to name and shame. One of the dickheads. One of the dickets.

The first being, I've never heard of this person. Like, this is my first encounter. Pedro the Cruel. Is this nominative determinism? Yeah, I know right. He's like, what should we call him? Pedro the Cruel. I'm looking for baby names currently.

So, that's so beautiful. Yeah, absolutely. So he is Portuguese. And he is also known as Pedro the first in Portugal. And so this is one of the reasons why you kind of don't hear about him up here. We have a tendency to sort of ignore Iberian history for one reason or another. But

Homeboy seems to be, like, he's just like one of these classic kings, right? Where it's like he decides that what he's going to do with his reign is like get back at everyone that he thinks has wronged him. No, I'm afraid that might be me if I ever

was a king. 100%. You know, like, who can blame him? I have, like, bitchers buckle up because this is going to look bad. You'd have a burn book going through. All those boys from secondary school They're going to be in for it now.

No jokes, go on. Name names. So, yeah, basically, there's a lot going on down at the court in Portugal. And a lot of all of this kind of hinges on infidelity. Right. So because what has happening is like at a point in time at Pedro's sister is supposed to be married off to the crown of Castile. The king of Castile is kind of like not interested in his sister.

He's got like a mistress. So his sister kind of like comes back in infamy. And then they're like, Castile. you know, his dad has a mistress, Lenore, and Pedro doesn't like that. Then Pedro celebrates by going and getting his own mistress. And so there's like just a lot going on, right? Okay. So everyone's feelings are hurt, essentially. Oh, God, that's amazing. Everyone's feelings are. Everyone's feelings are hurt. Yeah, exactly. And it's like, you know, ordinarily one simply has one's mistresses when one is royalty, right? Like that is something. that you can do. And what Pedro is done is he gets married off to the daughter of the Duke of Bourbon. And her name is Blanche, which was rather the style at the time. And so this is an

incredibly important match. You know, Portugal is always really kind of worried about Castile possibly coming and eating them. You know, they want to make sure that they are in independent kingdom. And the Dukes of Bourbon are incredibly wealthy. So this is like a really, really good match. Trouble with this is that Pedro's not that interested in Blanche. And he instead has a girlfriend named Ines. And Ines came along with Blanche to court and is one of her ladies in waiting. It's nice. And Pedro is basically like, oh, hell yeah.

I like this. And they take up with each other. Pedro's dad, not a huge fan of this. He's like, homie. Like, you can't be mad. We can't be mad at it. Castile, who sent your sister back, and then you're doing the same thing over here,

and Pedro's like, I think of fun, we can. I'm going to do it, nonetheless. And so they're like, we are separating you from your girlfriend, and Pedro's like, I am leaving, and, like, he storms out after I nest. You know, it depends on who you ask. Pedro claims that they get married in, like, secret against... In as he do.

Yeah, like, by this time, like, poor Blanche, RIP has died in childbirth. Oh, she's gone. Yeah, she's the style of the time, right? She's a supportive character. She's very... Marginal. Okay. And so like ordinarily then, you know, Pedro's like, okay, well, great, this clears the way for me to marry the chick up and bang in the whole time.

And his dad is like, no. Because like you are a prince and you are going to get married off to a princess who are going to get married off to someone powerful, not a lady in waiting. And Pedro's like, go marry my girlfriend by. And it depends on who you ask. Can I just say good for Pedro. Do you know? I have a feeling we probably shouldn't be on his side. I don't know where it's going.

So basically what happens is he claimed. that he went and married Innes. One way or another, they're kind of like, you know, maybe they're living in sin. Other people are like he's definitely not married. But obviously this is one of these like he said, she says, and it's difficult to know because obviously Pedro is going to say they got married, right, like in order to stop everything. And obviously his dad is going to be like, the hell you did, right? Because he's wanting to still kind of like keep this alive.

Pedro's dad decides to solve this by having Innes murders. So. Still kind of team Pedro then. Yeah. The dad is bad. Okay, so far. Yeah. Yeah.

Now, one of the people who murdered Ines is Pedro's half-brother. Wait, one of the people that murdered Inez is Pedro's half-brother. Okay. Yeah, there's like three dudes who kill her, right? And basically, Pedro freaks out, as one does, and he starts an open revolt against his father. Now, I don't have a problem with this. No. I'm like, you know, treat yourself homeboy.

That seems fine to me. My life, so. He loses. And Pedro does. And so he has to capitulate. to his dad. He gets brought before the court and he's like, yeah, sorry, dad, definitely didn't mean to rebel against you. I'll never do it again. Blah, blah, blah, blah. And his dad is like, okay, yeah, fine. Like, we'll marry you after a princess. It'll all be fine. And then his

dad kicks the bucket three months later. Circumstances, vaguely mysterious. Like, who knows? Like, it could just be, you know, like, I'm going to be real with you. It's the middle ages. He might have just got a cold. Yeah, yeah. Like, I don't know, right? Either way he's dead. Either way he's dead. And so Pedro's like, for my first act, I'm going to arrest everyone who killed my wife, including. I'm still on his side. Fair enough. And that would be fine, I think.

That would be fine. It is alleged that two of the individuals, one kind of gets away, are then brought to Pedro and he decides that he's going to kill them himself. Okay. And that in order to do this, the way that he decides to kill them is he cuts their chests open and tears their hearts out. Now, do you know what? I'm still Team Pedro. I might be okay with this.

Do it for Love King. Like I am on board of this. Yeah, so like he tears their hearts out and he's like, this is what you did to me. And so like, and so this is where things get weird, right? People report on this. He definitely killed these guys, like one way or another. Whether or not he tore their hearts out, we don't have a way of knowing. I'm going with it because it's poetic.

We love, right? But we learn all about this through varying chronicles. And chronicles are usually like, you know, basically some rich guy pays a guy off to write the history of it, right? Yeah. What is said at this point in time in the chronicle? I do not believe that this happened, but they say that for his next trick, Pedro then goes and has Inez's body exhumed, and that he puts her on the throne and puts a little crown on her head and says, everyone come worship your queen, like come and come and like kiss her hand and like makes everyone like line up to like.

That's not romantic, don't. Yeah. He dug up her body and put her on a throne. But he's obviously not well and he loved her so much and he's heartbroken. I'm not well, but I'm not going to go and dig up my granny, am I? This is like getting dangerous into actually I love the cadaver sign out. Yeah. He may have crossed over but do you know what?

It's still not unromantic. That is ghoulish though. It's very... Yeah, he put a crown on her head and he's like, kiss her, kiss her to like everyone. And so people at the court are like, okay. Okay, yeah. I guess we're doing this. And like obviously like we're dealing with a guy who like is cutting hearts out apparently.

So allegedly they did it. Now I don't think that that necessarily happened. Great story telling the story. Don't think it happened. Which one? The cadaver on the throne. The cadaver on the throne story. Yeah, I know.

But, you know, it tells us a lot about what people think about him and kind of his single-minded determination. What he definitely does do is he does exhum her body and he creates a couple of very grand tombs for her. And he has her like brought alongside so that she can be thought of as the former queen. And I think that's kind of sweet. He dies kind of soon after this. And he has like this super like grand tomb made so that they are.

like buried next to each other, facing each other so that at the resurrection, the first thing. I'm straight back in Team Pedro here. I know right. So it's like, oh, so now you guys can't be wife guys. Exactly. And so they are supposed to see each other first when they rise for the last judgment. And it says on the tomb until the end of the world. Oh, Apocalypse. I know. Here, listen, I'm, he gets a solid eight out of ten from me in a positive way. I think, I think, I see. I think it's spin, right? The cruel thing is spin from another

rain and another whatever. I'd cut someone's heart if they killed my husband. I would go that far. Like, I do like Shane and awful lot of. Listen, I support you both. You would need Shane to help you with the practicalities and he'd be dead, so you would be able to do it. I can't, I don't have time to be doing that.

Who has time for revenge in all this? I am 100% on board with Pedro. So basically what we really see from the story of Pedro though is that certainly, he does kind of like straight up serial killer violence, you know, but it is revenge, you know. And I mean, it's giving Mandy, right? Like, shout out to fairly obscure Nicholas Cage movies. But, you know, I think that what it definitely tells us a lot about is how the nobility and royalty usually comport themselves.

And it's like you can kind of do horrible things, but you're not supposed to take it personally. It's very odd. So it sort of like just tells us how there's a lot of like weird violence going on at the, noble rank ordinarily. Could we read it as it's kind of like a corruption of the chivalric tradition, right? Of like kind of being honorable and treating women

in a certain way and putting them on a pedestal. And this is kind of like, this has gone tits up. Yeah, like, I mean, because the thing is within like the courtly love tradition, it's totally normal to have a girlfriend and like, because no one gets married because they love each other. But you're supposed to keep it on the down low. It's supposed to be something that you're doing over there that you don't make everyone see.

And you don't necessarily cut people's hearts out. Yeah, you don't cut people's hearts out. You don't, you love your girlfriend, but you don't try to turn her into your wife. And indeed, a lot of the time, the Office of Marriage is seen as antithetical to romance. So he's kind of like subverting the normal way that we would think about romance and marriage. Is there a film about him? There ought to be. I'm on board.

I want to make this. I really fancy him. There you go. I'm sure that the Portuguese have made one. That's spiraled. That has spiraled from somebody you've never heard of. Team Pedro. Listen, I'm doing that.

It's like, come on and I've been like, do you like that? I'm like, what's going on? Really good. We are about to discuss a figure that everybody loves. We can hear you in the comments now. It's fine. It's just interpretation. You'll survive.

That said, Richard the Lionheart. Okay, this fucking guy. Listen, listen. This fucking guy. This, he's the warrior of Pedro the cruel, right? Like, absolutely opposite. Absolutely opposite, right? And everyone is all like, oh,

Richard the Lambard, really great guy. Yeah, because he wasn't here. Yeah. So you can just, like, turn him into anything that you want. In my head, he is the literal lion in the Disney. Yeah, yeah. Like, unfortunately, everyone our age just grew up with, like, the sexy fox Robin Hood, which was very confusing.

And then he shows up as, like, a lion at the end and everything gets better. Yeah. The thing... That is the extent of my historical knowledge. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Like, okay, so the thing that we've got to understand about him is, like, he does not care about this country.

at all whatsoever, right? It's like he's got no interest in England as anything other than a bank account, which is so interesting because today he's so evoked in right wing circles and, you know, is such a kind of stalwart of English values and blah, blah, and he wasn't even here. He came here like four times. Humboy did not speak English, right? Like, really? No, he, like, he speaks French and he speaks Ociton. This is the Frenchest guy who ever done did French. And he becomes the king of England. Essentially, he's like, awesome. Because what I am going to do is I'm going to treat England like a bank account.

And I am just going to take all of this money and I'm going to go fight Saladin. Hashtag no homo. Like, let's also be clear, like, the only good thing about Richard Lyonhart is his at least bisexuality. Like, you know, a flexible king, very close with his boys, etc. So, you know, what he does when he becomes king is like, great, now I'm going to go on crusade. And he establishes what is called a Saladin tithe here. And so he taxes everyone. There's this incredibly oppressive tax.

Every single person who owns any property at all whatsoever has to pay 25% of it, like, so that he can go on his little crusade. This is so interesting to me because the only thing that I know about this period is, is it his brother, is half brother John. it's meant to be the king that taxes the crap out of everybody and actually Rich is doing that already. Yeah, it's like 100% like, you know, the know the rules, HR comment. It was like, where he's like big tax, everyone's like, oh, you're so sweet.

And when John does it, they're like, hello HR. Yeah. And it's like, and it's because he puts this incredible tax on them. And then one of the other things that he does is he actually sells a bunch of public offices where he's literally like, oh, hey, whomst wants this, I will sell it to you, like give me money and like you can.

Was that done in this period? This is a new thing that he... Jesus Christ, no. Like, I mean, like, and far be it for me to be like, oh, actually, like a really hereditary ways of passing things down is a way to do it. Really exposing yourself here. I know, but it's like, you shouldn't also like be able to sell. Yeah.

You know, varying offices. Like that is not the one, in my opinion. So he imposes these incredibly brutal taxes and then is like, poose. And like, he is on his way to the Holy Land. On the way to the Holy Land, after he's fleeced everyone, like in the country. He first stops off down in Sicily. Immediately, like, besieges a bunch of towns, kills a bunch of people because he's like, I don't know, I'm bored. Wow.

This is what kings do. Yeah, I just think that, like, my nephew should actually be, like, the Duke of Messina. So, and everyone's like, wow, that's interesting, right? And then he eventually, like, they eventually get him on a boat, right? It was like, ordinarily when one goes on crusade, one does not besiege several Christian kingdoms on the way. But, you know, Richard's built different. He gets over to the Holy Land and he lands at Accra, right? And this is still kind of like a very, just kind of fallen to Selden.

And they managed to take it back. He apparently has like the equivalent of what we think might be scurvy now at the time. And he's like sitting on like a bed being moved around and he's like shooting people with crossbows. And I'm just like, I hate it. I hate it. So eventually they take back over the city. That would be good. He though is worried that they are going to get stuck in Ankara.

he wants to go take over Jerusalem. And he's got about 2,700 prisoners, Muslim prisoners. And he's kind of like using them as leverage against Saladin being like... 2700. I mean, that's... What's the management of that like? How is that working? Well, eventually the management isn't particularly great

because since he gets worried that he's going to get stuck there, he just kills them all. Right. Okay. He just kills like almost 3,000... So we had not thought through the management of the business. Yeah, and he's like a bunch of women and children. Whatever.

Like I guess that we will just like Kill it like they should not have been living in that city I guess Which is not a normal thing to do People don't ordinarily just kill the entire population Okay I'm hearing you I just So then they're all like okay That's it where we're gonna go take Jerusalem back from Saladin

Like a go Christians go or whatever And then like on the way Like everybody is like oh it's so gonna happen babe We are gonna take back Jerusalem And so they're like we're gonna elect to you king of Jerusalem and he's like, really? Wow, who's getting elected? The answer is a guy called Conrad.

Conrad gets elected and Richard takes this poorly. And a few weeks later, Conrad is then killed by an assassin. And when I say assassin, I mean like one of the OG original hashashins, like, you know, trained by like the old man of the mountain. And Richard's like, wow, that's crazy. Who would have them? Literally everyone is like, so it was Richard, right? Like Richard paid for this.

Like all of the Christians are like, this guy is out of control. Like he 100% has killed Conrad and everyone is like, dude, what? And Richard's like, anyway, that's crazy. I gotta go. And he like basically takes off after that

and everyone is like, what? What just happened? People are not happy with him, right? And so basically by the time he shows back up in Europe, he gets arrested almost right away by one of the Holy Roman Imperial Duke's Leopold, who's like, remember how you killed Conrad, my cousin, I hate this, right? And he puts him under house arrest. Now, there is some back and forth about whether or not you should be allowed to do that. The Pope is like, you're being very bad, Leopold, let him go. And Leopold is like,

yeah, I will. I'll let him go by sending him to the Holy Roman Emperor. And the Holy Roman Emperor is like, I hate you. You suck. And send the Holy Roman. Roman Emperor has him, like, locked up. So meanwhile, then, everybody's got to, like, ransom him out. And the Holy Roman Empire has given it a, like, $100 billion, like, thing. And basically, he asks for so much money that it is, like, the yearly revenue of England three times over. Oh, wow. The yearly revenue of England three times over. So he isn't coming back. Yeah. Well, except for Eleanor of Aquitaine is a real one. So it's like, Eleanor Vaucratain is like, my fail sense. Like, Richard's Eleanor's favorite. Okay. He's like a real mom.

Mama's boy, you know, and so she's like, okay, like I'll make it work. She goes around, again, puts like huge taxes on everyone to go get, like, her wastral son out of prison. So, like, basically bankrupts the kingdom again. And what is the feeling on the ground in England at this time? So in England, they're like, someone must get the king. Oh, the king. Because he's not there, so you can, you can, like, make any legend you want up about him. It's like, it's this vacuum that allows you to be like, damn, well, I know I know I'm.

life sucks right now, but if the king just came back. Oh, okay. You know, like that thing, it's this John who's baddest, like, based on what, homie? Like, I mean, like, the incredible ruling that you had under Richard. He doesn't care about you. Like, he has no interest in this at all whatsoever. So, like, his mom, like, basically bankrupts of the country, gets all this money out. They let him out.

And people hate Richard so much that when he's let out by the Holy Roman Emperor, like, he writes and he's like, by the way, like, to varying people that he's let out. He's like, the devil is loose, look to yourself. Oh, sick, but. That's actually giving me chills. Yeah. They're like, this is not someone that people, like, this is a mass murderer who hires assassins to kill people that he doesn't like, who is like personally pretty

disagreeable, like, was just being an asshole the entire time while he was like under arrest by the Holy Roman Emperor and being like, I'm actually much more important than you. And the Holy Roman Emperor is like, I am literally the Emperor. Yeah. I can kind of hear of Russell Crow. going like, the devil is loose. And then singing a ditty. Yeah, exactly.

100%. So eventually, like, he does get let out. And then, like, I cannot stress how much he does not come back to England. Like, he doesn't care at all. Like, he just ends up getting, like, embroiled in a bunch of wars with France, like, building a really big castle there that he really likes and just kind of, like, hanging out there because he does not care about England. He does not want to come back to England.

And he never does. Come back to England. But does he care of England? No. Oh, okay. No. And then when he's like, when he dies eventually, like he just gets killed by like some 14-year-old with a crossbow who has a lucky shot.

Because like also he's like he simply cannot stop besieging people in France. It's like this is his downfall. And he has some of his viscera buried in Rouen. And the rest of him is at Fonteverabille, where his dad is buried and where his mother will eventually be able to. Like he does so disinterested in England that like none of his body. Even comes here. Even comes here. Wow. So it's just like the entire legend about him being a good king or being particularly

righteous is just because he's not around to piss you off. So you can say anything that you want about it. Ask anyone else in Europe and they're like, that man is a monster. He's an awful person. And I think that we don't talk about it enough. So yeah, screw that guy. Now, Eleanor, being an asshole with the crown you heard is not exclusively for men. Tell me about Isabella the she-wolf of France cool name.

Oh, okay. Yeah, okay. So she's like my fave. She's such a messy. She is so messy. And like this is really, this is really one of those like, hmm, where you have to steal yourself. So Isabella the She-Wolf of France, you know, they're trying to say it as like brackets derogatory. I'm like, brackets post-a-no.

And so Isabella was a French princess. And she marries into the English crown as one. does. And so she is married to Edward II. Now, Edward the second, another one of our noted gay kings. And we love him. And, you know, initially when she comes onto the throne, he's got one boyfriend. And she's like, I can make this work. I don't really care. I'm like 12 anyway. So like who cares? Yeah, she's like fantastic. Great, great. Like, leave me alone. Love it. This boyfriend dies. We get a new boyfriend on the scene. A new boyfriend, we do not be getting on. And Edward II is all like, I like to give my boyfriend other people's land. This goes really really really wrong.

He eventually ends up giving some of Isabella's dowry lands to his boyfriend. And Isabella is like, I think the fuck not. Right? So she gets sent back to Paris. She's like, goodbye. You will not be finding me here. But also, like, Edward was, like, so busy, like, making out with his boyfriend that he sort of didn't notice that Isabella also took Edward the third along with him. So, like, she's got the air.

Stupidest move that you could, like, you definitely need to kidnap your son at this point in time. And like, but no. So whilst at the French court, she then gets in with a bunch of other English people who are in exile. Right? Because the lands get taken from varying people in order to give it to the boyfriend. And so they're like, well, I don't have any land. So I guess I'm just going to go dick around at the French zone. And, you know, like, the French just simply love to, like, irritate the English anyway.

So they're like, okay, great. Like, why don't you come hang out here? Yeah. So basically, Edward has created a whole community. of enemies that his wife is not around to. Great move for him to do that. Nobody said he was smart. Okay?

No, right? So, eventually one of the people that Isabella means is this guy called Roger Mortimer. Now, some people say that Roger's just like one of the guys who's in exile and he happens to be like a, you know, a pretty good military tactician. Other people say that Isabella is shagging Roger so hard. I like to believe the latter because I just think it's fun and cool. And I also think Turnabout as fair play. You don't have to have a boyfriend. Why can't she have a boyfriend?

This is equality, okay? And so eventually they end up coming back to England and they take over the kingdom so fast. Like, it's embarrassing. Like, everybody is kind of fleeing west. They kind of land over in Norfolk and they just go across the country. Eventually they catch up with Edward in Wales. Boyfriend gets killed.

Edward dies. Okay? We don't exactly know how. It could just be that he's. imprisoned, you know, and it's pretty easy to die when you were in prison in some indignity. You know, like if you were just like in a dungeon, like, yeah, you'll die pretty quickly. There are rumors that he is killed by a red hot... A red hot poker up the bum.

I don't think that that is likely. I think that that's one of those things that medieval people say in order to... In order to indicate his same-sex attraction. Exactly. It's not necessarily a real thing, but it's showing... And it's sort of like violent. irony of like, huh, look what happened.

Exactly. Yeah. It's like, you know, ironic punishment division. It's something that you would see

really commonly in hell frescoes when you are talking about like sodomites are in hell. This is the sort of thing. So it's probably more of like a motif, right?

But one way or another, he dies. And so Isabel's like, sweet, I'm the queen now. Because Edward III is like a kid, like a tiny kid.

And so she's like, I rule the kingdom with my boyfriend. So like, so Roger is like kind of sitting there and they're like, woo-woo.

So she's taken over the kingdom. Like, I cannot stress how much she is, like, deposed and killed a king, right, one way or another, and ruling with her out-of-woodlock boyfriend, which is like such a power move. It's absolutely incredible. Presumably not a popular one in England. No. And, you know, the trouble is, too, that she's like, well, now that I'm the queen, she's like, yeah, I'm going to take those lands. Thank you very much. So it's like, does she learn very much? Yeah, yeah, yeah. No. And so eventually when Edward III comes into the majority, one of the first things,

he does is he basically kills Roger Mortimer. He's like, enough. No, thank. Like, right away, like, you are beheaded. No, thank you. You're done. And he's like, mum. And she's like, what? And he's like, you are in so much trouble. You are under arrest. And it's like, oh yeah, like, what does under arrest mean? It's like, you have to go live at Castle Rising in Norfolk. You can, here's like, unless money to do it up so that it's very nice to have fun hunting. And she's like, okay. And like, she eventually raises the black prince. She's like super, super instrumental in the Black Princess education. And she is really the link to the claim to the French throne that starts off the Hundred Years' War.

But she's also like a messy, messy queen. I love her because it's like in between all of this, one of the things that she kicks off down in France is something called the Tour of Nestle affair. Do you know about this? No. Okay, so this is so funny. She goes down to a banquet in France. And she notices that there's like these knights that are wearing these really ordinary. Purses. Where'd they get those purses? Because Isabella gave those purses to her sisters-in-law for Christmas.

Oh. And she's like, where'd you get those purses, homeboys? And so she's like, oh, I bet you're shagging my sisters-in-law. She gets them all arrested. All her sisters-in-law are arrested and in prison. Oh, she's petty. All the nights are killed. Most of the sisters-in-law die in prison. And this is what calls into question. the legitimacy of the French hair. Wow. So her legacy is huge. And across so many different lines and story plots. Oh, my God. Yeah, she is 100% like a real master power broker.

Yeah. She really changes things for better or worse. And, you know, she is, number one, the reason why you could say that perhaps we need, like, an English king on the throne. and in the second place she is like oh and by the way English kings are French. It's all Isabella. And like she's a real one.

I'm telling you, I absolutely love her because she's just the worst. It's like the girl has receipts. She notices everything. She's incredibly smart and she will call you out, right? And I love that for her. When does she get called the she will for France? Is this something that comes later or is this in her own lifetime? It's in her own lifetime.

They're like this chick. You know, it's a, you just you take over one. kingdom. And it's just like, okay. And especially after she is forced into retirement, such as it is, it becomes a lot easier to do that. That's a notorious monica, yeah. But, you know, luckily for her, she faces absolutely no consequences in her lifetime. So, you know, I love that. You know, like Roger faces consequences. She does not. You know, she lives That is fascinating. And I suppose that talks to the relationship between her and her son, Edward, right? That he, okay, he scolds her and it's like, you need to go. And it's like, you need to go somewhere else,

but he doesn't kill her. No, no. So it shows that at the very least he really does still love her. And he's sort of clear why these things needed to happen. But it's just like, we're done now. Put a line under it. Marks up to 10 for Isabella, please. I'm going to go with five. I was going to say five. Yeah. Oh, okay. Wow. Wow. Bad, but can't help but enjoy her a little bit. I like the strategy. It's not the most foolproof strategy, but at least she's strategizing.

She's not just laying down taking it. She is claiming power for herself. I kind of admire that. But it's kind of like she forgot to cross the teas and dot the eyes. Yeah. It's like, oh, you could have just, if you had been a tad smarter. She learned no lessons along the way. But she was fine.

She was comfortable. She was in the castle at the end. Yeah. You know, she's good. Yeah. You know, it's real, sometimes rich people do not face consequences. Hours, you know. Which is interesting because her husband certainly did.

Yes. But, you know. But that was other rich people imposing consequences on rich people. They get to do it, we don't. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. The next potential, worst person in medieval Europe is somebody we know a little, a little bit on this podcast. We've done an episode on him before.

And that is our old friend, Vlad Dracul. Yeah. And he is, you know, this is weird in many ways because you'll say that name. And actually a lot of people will have baggage, literary baggage, you know, horror film baggage. and a lot of people think they have a, through those things, through the graphic novels, through the movies, they think they have a way into the actual history. But sometimes it's even bloody worse than you might have imagined. Yeah.

I mean, very little actual blood drinking probably, but it's not good. No. Let's just put it that way. We're like, we don't know. You know, it is rather the style at the time when you get these particular rulers in this part of the world to kind of accuse them of blood drinking. That's kind of a trope. Yeah, exactly. But he did enough bad things that I'm kind of like,

yeah, help yourself. Yeah. We have a woodcut in front of us, and I'm going to describe it before Ellen tells us anything more. And we have spoken about this image, I think, on the pub before. But this is a medieval woodcut, some black and white, of course. And it is a man who I take to be Vlad sat at a table eating a feast. He's got a plate of some kind of food in front of him.

And around him is a scene of absolute. There's a servant ripping out, I don't know, the entrails from a beheaded torso on the floor. There's discarded hands and feet everywhere. And in the background, which I think is not necessarily conducive to a relaxing meal, is a wall of human beings dead impaled on wooden spikes. Yeah. What's occurring, please? Okay, so our good friend Vlad, he is the wall. sometimes vulvoda of Wallachia.

It rolls off the tongue. And you've got to understand that this is kind of part of Transylvania. It's not all Transylvania. Transylvania is a very large area. And at this point in history, where their allegiances lie is questionable, right? So sometimes they're under the auspices of Hungary and sometimes the Ottomans are taking over, right? And indeed, Vlad grows up at the Ottoman court. He's like one of those hostages.

It's kind of like the Game of Thronesy type situation where you like have a hostage and they're like, Yeah, you know, so we're going to be able to do things this way. When Vlad comes into majority, he begins almost immediately to beef with the Hungarian crown. And as a part of this, he ends up going after the Saxons who live in the area, which is to say, like, they're German speakers. It is rather popular in Central Europe to kind of just like have some Germans show up and be like, hey, what's up? We run this town? Cool.

You know, and it's just like they can't be stopped, they won't be stopped. And so oftentimes you have some Germans show up and just like start bossing everybody around. Vlad takes a rather dim view of this. And he feels as though these guys who are oftentimes called hussars are, they are interfering with his ability to run Volatia, he believes. So he decides that he's going to kill them all. And it's not enough to kill them all. Very diplomatic. He also impales them.

Molon's my... Is this a traditional thing to do in this region, or is this a Vlad thing? Vlad is just, you know, ahead of his time. He's a visionary. He's an innovator. Yeah, he's an innovator, and he really is able to, like, go for it with these guys. And I think this is an interesting point because he also ends up at varying points in time beefing with the Ottomans, which is interesting.

He kind of does a bit of a heel turn. Like, he'll, oh, this boy loves a hill turn. He will turn on the king of Hungary. He will turn on the Ottoman emperor. He will, don't worry about this. And he will eventually get around to also impaling a couple of Ottomans. Just a couple. Because basically, like, the Ottomans are like, oh, yeah, are you going to come do homage?

Right. And you're going to like, and he's like, oh, yeah. And by that, I mean, I'm impaling these messengers right now. And the Ottomans are like, what? That is the exact opposite of what I just requested, right? And oftentimes we kind of get this twisted in a modern sense. And we go, oh, yeah, well, he like, impaled a bunch of Ottomans. Okay.

And he did. I mean, it sounds like it did, Eleanor. He did. I mean, he did. Like, I'm going to be so real. But he impaled more Saxons. And what's interesting is that all of this killing, like all of this like incredibly brutal killing, you know, because like the idea here is that these guys might have been alive when they were impaled. So it's just like a real.

It's a real. It's a real slow one. Yeah. Sounds as they're on. You know, there's groaning. There's crying out. there's yeah yeah so it's like so this is torture and everyone is like wow that's really intense flad hmm interestingly he is a bit of kind of like a romanian folk hero as a result of all this because

they're like hell yeah i love to kill turban's day now they're like now now even now even now because you know we we've got to understand that central europe and especially this part of central europe is constantly in the process of being taken over by random people, right? So it's like you've got a whole bunch of people who kind of like a drive-through and they go, oh, like, look, hi, it's us, it's the Hungarians. No, you do not know what we're saying and we control you now. Hey, what's up? It's us, a bunch of German guys. So we are actually in charge of these lands now.

And the local Volacians kind of see all of this as outside interference and they see Vlad as being more of the rightful ruler of the area. and to an extent they see him as redressing historic wrongs. Everyone else is like, damn bitch, you live like this. Yeah, I mean, what are his motivations? Is this that he is defending his territory and that he is being a good ruler for his people? Or does he just have a fetish for sticking people on sticks? Which one is it? Impossible to say, right?

Like, it's very difficult to untangle this particularised knot because certainly he's doing it as a result of a term. to gain greater control over this area. 100%. Like he's not just doing it only for fun, right? And part of what he is doing is he is going as hard as you possibly can to make an example. Right? So it's like, you don't want to mess with this guy after that.

You're like, he did what? Like, excuse me? I would really rather not, you know? And we definitely see, like, him get brought back into the fold of the Hungarians. Like, eventually he loses a couple battles. and then they're like, listen, you're very bad, but we are going to use you to, like, go fight in the Balkans against, like, Ottoman.

So he's, like, one of these characters who really kind of moves around. It's like he'll sort of fight anyone anywhere, depending on... So people harness that vibe that he has. Yeah, so they're, like, if I could just, like, point that in the direction of my enemies, that would be great. That would be really ideal. But, you know, he ends up killing just lots and lots and lots of people. And a lot of them do happen to be Muslim as well.

So, you know, like, a lot of a Muslim. Muslim Bulgarians, for example, end up dead as a result of our good friend Vlad. And so it really kind of depends on who you're asking. But the fact of the matter is one way or another, people at the time are like, excuse me, what? Right. Like this is so beyond the pale of what you would ordinarily do. And certainly, this is really antithetical to the way that medieval warfare often works.

This is what's coming into my head as I listen to you talk about this going, you know, to a certain extent you kind of go, oh, well, he's potentially regaining. ground or he's defending territory or whatever it is. And then there's truth in that, I think. But there's also then the rules of warfare, right? And it feeds into a lot of the people we've been talking about today going, are you transgressing the accepted boundaries that we have either silently or through some kind of a tract or whatever, put down to go, this is how we conduct ourselves. This is what's expected within even extreme situations. And if you go beyond that, then you're causing a problem globally. But then if you come back onto a kind of a micro level,

Isn't there something about homeless people or beggars or something and he brings them for a meal? Yeah. Yeah, there's this legend where it's like he runs into a bunch of beggars and he's like, oh, it is I. You know, the count to come inside. And then he's like, wah-ha-ha, actually killed you. Yeah, like very, like it kills them anyway. And this is kind of used to highlight his transgressive nature because, you know, obviously as a ruler and especially a Christian ruler. Like in theory, you know, he is a Christian. And, you know, which flavor depends.

Originally he's Orthodox, but then he's like forced Catholic. Hashtag kink. And like as a part of this, you know, you have a kind of responsibility to the people who are underneath you. You know, there's a reason why whenever you see a medieval health fresco, it's full of kings, right? It's like kings and bishops are the ones who are in hell. And it's because everybody kind of knows that it's like immoral to be rich, right? They're like, it's, it is actually bad. You are like living off of, you know, the actual work of people who are inserved, right? It's not good. So you have this moral responsibility that you are supposed to be looking after the poor and the downtrod and you should be giving to charity. You should be looking after these people. And you should not. And you should not kill

them, even if you think they're kind of annoying, right? So whether or not that actually happened is dubious, but it's being used as a way of kind of highlighting. And he doesn't have respect for his people either. Yes. Right? So, you know, because it would be one thing to just go, oh, yeah, well, okay, he does kill a lot of people, but they're Muslims or they're German. And are those people?

Question mark. It's another thing to be like, and he also doesn't even look after his own people. Yeah. Right? So that's why you would circulate a story like that. Do you think that we remember him today because of the literary transformation that he undergoes in becoming Dracula

or is he in his own right a myth? I think that we would be aware of him without Dracula. I think that like I mean you've seen that woodblock you know we're like weirdos like us would find that we would find it right? We'd be like

oh who's he right and you know it is enough of a transgression against norms that stories were told about this and everyone was like Jesus us, you know. As a result of it, I think that we would have heard about it, but I think that he would be in a little bit more obscurity, right? I think that there are, especially around this early modern turn, you know, when we're getting into the really late medieval period, when we're about to hit

the early modern period, there are a bunch of people who just start while it out, which is a technical historical term, right? You know, I'm thinking like Ferdinand and Isabella kicking off, you know, with the Spanish Inquisition, you know, things like this, where suddenly, like, torturing a bunch of people becomes a lot more acceptable and it will be a lot more acceptable in the early modern period because the early modern period is wild. So I think that we would kind of know about him, but he would just be kind of part of this larger pattern. And it is Bram Stoker, you know, one of the, you know, the second most famous Irish person, you know, that, I'm on a third, because of Oscar Wilde as well. Fine, I'll take third to Oscar Wilde. That's fine. So he really

immortalises him by using these particular names, using these locations in order to flesh out the character of Dracula. Incredible book. I just read it for the first time this summer. Really enjoyed it. But do you know what's a little bit... No, I really like it too. But you know what's a little bit disappointing?

I read the book before I found out about Real Vlad. So I read the book when I was like a teenager. But actually, once you learn the history, there's very little. Yeah, like absolutely nothing. It's like the name. And the place. It's like Transylvania, Scarred dude. Yeah.

And blood. That's kind of about it. I mean, there's some impaling, I guess. Yeah. Well, yeah. But you know, this is one of these things where it's like, you know, the real monster is like, what if English chicks shag a Central European? Yeah. What if a Central European had money?

Oh, no. Yeah. So it's rather a lot of that going on. Although it was funny, like Slovaks were catching strays in that book. It's a great disservice to my beautiful culture and heritage. I was like, what did we do? Yeah, wow. Yeah, I'm like, okay.

But who of the four, Pete four, right? We don't thought. Of the four that we've talked about, who is your absolute worst if you had to pick? And you do. I do have to pick. I think that we have to go with Vlad. I wanted to be Richard just because I hate him so much. But I think that the kill count is just too high.

Yeah. So his kill count is larger than Richard. And I'm just doing this in terms of like, what are the absolute numbers here? It's where he's, you know, his stats. out the goat in terms of like random people that are killed. So I think that for him, it's just sheer numbers of people who are killed and how horribly it's done. So it's got to go, I think for me, we're going Vlad, Richard, Isabella, Pedro. See, for me, Pedro shouldn't even be on this list.

Like, if I die and someone doesn't cut out someone else's heart for me, I'm not interested. Like, 100% I'm on board. Thank God you don't have to date and that you're married. That is your expectation. And this would be my first date chat, by the way. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Would you like to hear about Pedro the cruel cruel? And would you say that if your wife was killed, how many hearts would you pull out?

Could you meet that level of commitment? Yes or no. Romance. And I would not get a second date. Who's the worst for you? Oh, who's the worst? No, I agree with that order exactly. I think Vlad is.

He just has to be. He has to. There's nothing you can do about it, I think. Yeah. He is who he is for a reason. Same for you or different. I think it has to be. It's between that or Richard, you've really convinced me about Richard. He's a real, real scumbag. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We're thinking that slightly. Let us know in the comments what you think. We want the rankings. We want your numbers out of ten. We want your feelings. No.

We want your feelings about how romantic Pedro is and whether or not you agree with me. And you should agree with me because he's clearly amazing. Oh my God. Okay. If you want, you can leave us a five-star review. Please do, because it helps people to find the podcast. And, you know, it's a nice little ego boost for us. We do enjoy to see the reviews.

No, we do. I don't look at them. I don't look at them. You know I don't look at them. Oh, I look at them. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Wow, she's brave. She's brave.

I'm too scared. You know, she's the type who would cut your heart out. Yes. Yeah. Leave a lot on page. That's the same thing. Yeah. That is coming from the same thing.

If you leave bad reviews, she's taking your name. And who knows? When she loses it one day, she's coming for you. I have the receipts. Yeah. See you next time. Oh, God. Thank you so much once again to the team at After Dark for having me on.

I had an absolutely cracking time. And of course, thank you for listening to Gone Medieval. Remember, you can enjoy unlimited access to award-winning original TV documentaries, including my recent film, Joan of Arc. You can follow Gone Medieval on Spotify, where you can leave us comments and suggestions or wherever you get your podcast. And tell all your friends and family that you've gone medieval. Until next time.