Good Hang with Amy Poehler - Billie Eilish

Episode Date: May 5, 2026

Billie Eilish is a horse girl and a fan girl. Amy hangs with the pop star and talks about allowing herself to be cringe, rewatching 'The Office' four times a year, and what happened to Tomato Bisque Soup.Host: Amy PoehlerGuests: Finneas O'Connell and Billie EilishExecutive producers: Bill Simmons, Amy Poehler, and Jenna Weiss-BermanFor Paper Kite Productions: Executive producer Jenna Weiss-Berman, coordinator Sam Green, and supervising producer Joel LovellFor The Ringer: Supervising producers Juliet Litman, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin; video producers Jack Wilson and Aleya Zenieris; audio producer Kaya McMullen; social producer Bridget Geerlings; video editor Drew van Steenbergen; and booker Kat SpillaneOriginal music: Amy Miles Hilton. For the Stay. Visible. Live in the know. https://www.visible.com  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Real talk. You live for reality TV. Every time it gets crazy. Gets juicy, gets dramatic and completely irresistible. Lucky for you, Hulu on Disney Plus has the most unhinged and unmatched library of shows, period. From the secret lives of Mormon wives to dancing with the stars. Hulu has it all. Hulu gets real. Stream now with Hulu on Disney Plus in Canada. Terms apply. Hello everyone. Welcome to another episode of Good Hang. We have an incredible guest today. It is the one, the only Billy Eilish. Billy, so great. Love her. And we're going to talk about so many good things. We are going to talk about how important it is to laugh. We're going to talk about how intrusive thoughts, what to do with them. We're going to talk about how much she loves to sing and how lucky we are that she loves to sing, because she's the best voice in the world. We are going to talk about how she saved an animal that was in her own walls. And we're going to talk about her new concert film, Hit Me Hard and Soft, coming out this week in theaters. So much to talk about. She's the best, Billy. And, you know, we always like to do something on this show. We like to speak to someone who knows our guest and wants to speak well behind our guests back. And who do we get?

Finius. Of course, Phineas, her brother, her collaborator, an incredible producer and musician, writer, composer, who probably knows Billy better than anyone. And very nicely speaking to us while he drives his car in L.A. So let's get on, let's get on the Zoom with Phineas. Finneas, hi. This episode is presented by Hilton. Guys, you know what vacation perfectionism is? It's the pressure to get your family's summer vacation booked and make it perfect and memorable. Stressful, right? Don't worry, because the team at Hilton takes care of what matters so you can exhale and disconnect. They've got over 9,000 hotels around the world, including amazing resorts and all-inclusive options.

So you'll definitely find this day that you're looking for. When you want your summer vacation to feel like a vacation, it matters where you stay. Book now at Hilton.com. Hilton for the stay. Yes.

Hi, how's it going? Let me pull my car over and go on. Oh my God. This is very L.A. that you're zooming while you're driving. Yeah. Well, the softball game,

the park, the Saturday morning softball game just ended. Okay, cool. I'm pulling over. I'm taking this Waymo's space. Here I go. I'm pulling over to really look you in the eye and focus. I have a question about the Waymo.

A lot of people who don't live in California don't experience this Waymo, which is a driverless car. That's right. What do you think happens if you hit a Waymo? What happens? Yeah, I am much more blasé about cutting off a car with no driver than I am about cutting off another human being. I know. Yeah, I don't care. I think it's really interesting that we treat driverless cars like with derision.

Like we're like, whatever. Don't let the Waymo in. But we kind of love the little shopping cart thing that rolls around. That is adorable. Have you ever been in an L.A. intersection where the little robot delivery cart meets a Waymo at the same time and they just stand there together? Like they're in love, I assume. I like that. No, I haven't.

I look forward. That's going to be like. you know, a four-leaf clover in a field. Keep your eye out for that for that meat cute, that, L.A. meet cute. Okay, I guess what I wanted to ask you before we get to your question, and I know you're literally pulled over on the side of the highway, so we won't keep you. But you have made a point of letting us in on your creative process a lot,

which I really appreciate as a person who tries to make things. what do you like about letting people in on that? Because some people don't really feel like they don't like to do that. What do you get out of showing people how you make things? I like it because it's become in the music production space more and more popular. I would say that like when I was 13 and I was scouring the internet trying to find the kind of videos that we've made a lot of, I was finding some but not a ton. And man, I find them inspiring.

You know what I mean? I see, there comes a fire truck. I'm going to wait for a beat. I hope it's a Waymo fire truck and nobody's driving it. Yeah, nobody driving it. I find it so inspiring as a consumer to be like, oh, that's a laptop that I could buy at the Apple store. And that's a microphone, like there's kind of a magic and mystery in hearing a great song

that makes it feel unattainable to me. and I think that when I see somebody break it down, I go like, oh, wow, I could do that. And I think also I'm always rolling my eyes in the music space at people acting like they have some secret sauce, secret ingredient thing. Yeah. And to me, it's like, no, no, there is nothing.

It's all just like I had an idea and here's how it is and it's probably simpler than you think it is or maybe it's just more tedious or painstaking. You know what I mean? Yes. And so that, I love that quality. I love. And I also think that like it connects people to the, to the project more.

Like I'm a DVD behind the scenes commentary of a movie guy. I love learning about the process of making the thing. And I think it makes you love something more. Any creative process, like they're all kind of similar. It's like a lot of trying things in real time. And then like a lot of jokes to like get your brain off lines because you can't think anymore, which I can, like, I love that you and Billy, when you work together, you do that a lot. You, like, use comedy to switch yourself out of a rut or out of a mood or something.

I've noticed. Yes. Do you say? Where she cracks me up so much when I make her laugh, much like your laugh or, like, Conan's laugh or something, like she has a laugh to me that I'm like, oh, like that makes me feel so good to make Billy laugh. That's such an eldest child. Oh, Pindy isn't so nice. because, okay, I'm the oldest, the eldest child, we have it the worst. Sorry, it's the hardest.

We have a lot of weight on our shoulders. And we're also, Rick, really always trying to get our younger sibling to laugh, feel better. We're like that we feel a lot of obligation. I don't know if it's different for oldest boys, but what do you like and not like about being an eldest child? I guess the only thing I don't like is that on a good day when I feel like I'm really in the pocket, it seems like, oh, it must be cool to have an older sibling. That seems cool. That's what I'm saying.

Like the period of time where I could drive her places and shit like that, I was like, this is awesome. So that's a kind of a con. Like, I wish I had a cool older sister or older brother or something. And then the pro is just having a younger sibling is awesome, you know, and getting to like roll your eyes with your parents about your younger sibling growing up. And like, they're being insane. Being the favorite, that's awesome.

he doesn't like being a favorite. Oh my God, I know. So you talk about like, you know, liking the idea that your Billy's protector and you're also obviously so important in her life and her career and you guys are also doing tremendous things separately. And what I wanted to ask, one last question is how would you describe the way you like to work? My fantasy is that you get in a place with somebody and the prerec is that. that you go in there and you already think they're talented. Even if they're not successful yet, they've done something that you're like,

I am attracted to that quality. I think they have an amazing voice or they're a great writer or whatever it is. So you already come in an admirer and then you hang out and you make each other laugh and you have a cup of coffee and you let your guard down and you talk shit about something. And then you're like, oh, damn. We probably only have like 90 minutes before you have that flight back to New York. Do you want to try to make something really quick? and then you make something in this kind of like pressures off, expectations have gone away,

sort of a thing. And then when you're in that process, you get inspired and you get passionate and you get the kind of feeling that we all get of like, no, no, we want to make this the best it can be. But that it's all inside this kind of, you know, eggshell of like, we're just like, you know, we're just having a blast here. We're just having a great time. And I don't think that you're a failure if you don't make something today and you don't think I'm a loser. I don't know if you've ever met Mike Scher, who's a showrunner and writer. I have not met him,

but I'm an admirer. I know who he is. You and Mike remind me of each other a lot and when I've heard you speak and because it's just basically this idea of like you can decide that chaos is going to be the thing that's the agent that creates creativity

or you're going to, or you can decide its connection. And sometimes there's a truly eccentric, chaotic experience that's like, holy shit, we made something. But for the most, part. Like, if it's chaotic and not connected, it's hard. And also imagine, I feel like the real

pivot for me was like I was very ambitious as a 19 year old, 20 year old, mainly because I didn't, I didn't want the opportunity to go away. I felt like we had this great thing. I didn't want to lose it. And I was stressed. I was like, oh, my God, like, I don't want to fail. And I think that then we succeeded in a bigger way than I thought we would. And then we've had sort of ups and downs as everybody does, then I was like, oh, okay, so then if I really have no control over whether something succeeds or not, I might as well just have the best time possible making the thing because the couple times in my life that I've been involved in making something that was unpleasant to make, I didn't really care if it succeeded. I was like, that was horrible

to work on that. And especially if it failed in whatever metric or capacity, I was like, oh my god what was the point of all that that was awful to do and then nobody even liked it and now I work on stuff and I'm like well you can't take away from me that I had this amazing summer I mean it's part of the unfair thing about working with Billy for me is I'm like I'm expected to work with people that I love so much less than my sister and you know what I mean like year when you spend about a year making a record and I'm like yeah that's a year I get to hang out with Billy like three days a week and have a wonderful time with her every time and the idea of like getting in with somebody that's a stranger it could lead to that but it's like unlikely that I'm going to love somebody that much you know so what do you love about

your sister I love so many things about her I think she's so earnest and sweet and um hardworking and um I think she sees the the world through a totally different lens than I do and then there are things that we you know feel similarly about and we think the same thing about um I love disagreeing with her about stuff. Never for no reason, but I love finding out why she feels differently about something. She's so competitive. I love that about her. I love that about her, too.

I'm not a competitive guy. Like, we lost this softball game. I do not care. Like, that is not a problem to me. And if Billy were at this softball game with me, Billy would be sitting here next to me like Kobe, when Kobe would lose the championship. Like, she is a fighter. And I love that.

And that's lucky for me to be, you know, on the same team as. And, you know, and she's an amazing, a compassionate sort of loving person. She got all that from our mom. She loves animals of all kinds. She's incredibly environmentally conscious. She's learned so many lessons that I think take other people a longer time to learn if they ever do.

Agreed. So I'm an admirer of all those things. Oh, thank you for saying that. so well said. And so to our last, to let you get back on the road and to honestly, take a look at how you could have done better on the field. Because that is important on your ride home. Do you have a question? Anything you think Billy would want to talk about or, you know, yes. Okay, you got one. You got one. I do. I do. Okay. So I think that the best way for me to phrase this is to not over-explain it to you because I think you learning it from Billy is funnier.

Okay. I want you to ask Billy what tomato bisque soup is, and I want you to ask Billy how she lost tomato bisque soup. Fantastic. Perfect. This feels like family lore. I can't wait to get into it. It's shockingly recent.

This is not some. thing from 10 years ago. This is like, this is fresh. This is Friday. Oh my God. Awesome. Okay. Finia, thank you so much for your time and doing this. And truly, anytime you want to come in here and talk more, I would love it. I'd be honored. I'm a big fan. Thanks again. Have fun with Billy. Thank you so much. You're the best. Talk to you soon. Nice to meet you. Bye. Nice to meet you. This episode is brought to you by Visible. Spring is in the air, which means it's time for some spring cleaning. We're decluttering the closets and finally tossing those mystery cords. But while you're

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Woo-hoo. Oh my God. Billy Elish is here. Billy! Okay. I mean, you're a tiny, you're a teeny tiny. But you're a giant. But you're a teeny tiny.

You're a teeny tiny lady. What are you talking about? You're a shorty. I am a shorty. I am a shorty. I am a shorty. You're a tiny shorty. 5-2. 5-2? And you are? I'm 5-3. We'll see. Whoa. We'll see. Yeah, we'll see. Should we height check? People are 5-2

like to say they're 5-3? Well, you know what's interesting? I've been 5-3. I'm still saying that I'm 5-3 because I feel that it's not true that I've grown an inch, but I did just go to the doctor and they checked my height and I was 5-4. Suddenly. And I've been 5-3 since I was like 12 years old. So I've been telling everybody. that I grew an inch. I literally been gowing around and being like, guys, I grew an inch. Do you think, though, do you have good, do you think you have good posture? I do. I do.

I think my posture's better. And I think my posture's generally good. I do have the phone, the iPhone bump. You know, the iPhone bump at the top of the spine kind of vibe. But other than that. Yeah, because you probably have like Alexander Technique, dancer training, posture stuff. Yes. Well, but well done.

I actually have been working on my posture because... Is your posture bad in general? It is pretty bad. It's getting worse. It's getting worse. It's getting worse. Interesting. I know.

Because of this? Because of working, because of sitting. No, I think just because, well, maybe because of computers and phones, yeah. But it might just be like age and, yeah. So I have to work on it. Okay. So Billy Eilish is here. We're working on our posture.

You're a teeny tiny, but you're a giant. You're a giant in every industry. Okay. Same to you, girl. I don't know how to not totally praise. head to toe, so I'm going to take it slow. Okay. Very, very pumped that you're here.

I'm such a fan of your work. I am such a fan of how you work. And you've been very generous to us, people who don't know you but get to experience your art. You've been very generous and like showing us how you work. And I have like really blown away by how you approach your art and your work. because what I feel from you and I think is true is like you have this thing a lot of it comes from your family,

the way you were raised, like this is kind of like the way in which your family, the people around you like made you like a citizen of the world. Yeah. That you're not, you don't feel above people. I know.

And because of that, it's like you're in, in it with us. Like this whole thing feels like we're in it together. Like you're physically in it. Like you're physically in the crowd. you're physically in the room. Like you put, you throw yourself in. Sometimes it get nervous for you.

And then, but you also, because of it, that's why we feel as fans, we feel so connected to you. And the other part of you that I love is you're so funny and you love to laugh. Comedy is so important to you. Oh my God, I was literally saying yesterday I was with my friends and we were talking about how we live to laugh. I just, I literally live to laugh. said this to my friend because she was talking about relationships and she was like, she was like, well, I just didn't laugh. And I was like, well, bitch, you live to laugh specifically. And I do too. And so when you're not with somebody who makes you laugh,

anyway, she, the rest of the day, she kept being like, I can't get over you saying live to laugh. I know. It's medicine for me. It is medicine. Amy, thank you for saying all that stuff. Oh my God. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Also, you're like, us as fans. And just you say medicine. Are you kidding? I'm such a fan. Wow. Thank you very much. But yes, I feel one with the world and the fans and all of it.

Well, I think, like, the comedy part is important because it is like, you know, you can do so many things well. And you're in a family of artists who do a lot of things and you're doing a lot of things. Yes. But the comedy part, if, like, I'm curious where that, where I'm curious, like, what your relationship was to comedy as a little kid and a young person and, like, your family. Like, you guys laugh a lot. Oh, yeah. And you all have good senses of humor, like really sharp. Yeah.

I mean, my mom was, was my, both of my parents, gosh, this is amazing. I literally, like, have never talked about anything in this realm, which I'm loving right now already. I mean, my mom was in the groundling, so she is just naturally very funny and very quick and witty and, like, has so many characters. And so does my dad. My dad is, like, an incredible facemaker. He makes amazing faces. And he and I used to have, like, facemaking, competition. when I was a little kid.

And so I would always see them just be funny all the time. And all they did was be funny and laugh and all Phineas. I mean, Phineas is like truly a comedic genius. Yeah, he is really good jokes. Like really funny. Like, and has been forever. I mean, when we were, I was thinking about this today randomly, that when we were doing meetings with like labels and stuff when I was 14 and he was 18,

he was just like cracking jokes for the whole thing and making everybody, you know, die laughing. So I don't know what it came from. I love to laugh so much. Well, that's where it came from. Just as you said. I just love to like, you start to like know what you see. Yeah.

And like the love language at your family was like laughter. Sure. And a little bit of slight teasing, which to me is a sign of love. So that's literally my, I live for that. I like, there's nothing that's funer to me than being made fun of and making fun of someone else. It's the greatest thing. To me, it's like how I show someone that I love.

And that's how love is shown to me. Yes, 100%. And it is just like some families, it's wild. Some families don't do that. I can't even believe that. Some people don't do that. Sometimes, like, I feel like people enter my life and I start to, like, absolutely just go in on them

for whatever thing I'm making fun. And it's like, I realize like, oh, you don't do this. So it feels like I'm blubes. bullying you, but really I'm just trying to be... I'm loving you. I'm loving you. I'm loving you so hard. Oh my God.

Oh, my God. Also, like, laughing at yourself is, like, the greatest, one of the greatest joys and, like... It is, and it's a sign of intelligence, but having a sense of humor about yourself, especially when your all eyes are on you or when your young person is super hard. Taking yourself too seriously is just the worst quality in the world. It is, but it, it is the worst quality, but it is, but I understand, I have empathy for it because usually it comes from like, you know what? I saw it a lot at S&L.

Because you got people at their most nervous. Yes. And when people are nervous, like whatever is your shadow side comes out. Like you get quiet or you get kind of mean to people or you get hectic or and when you're nervous, like sometimes people just, they really tense up. They want to take things seriously because they want to do a good job. And you're like, I hate to break it to you. The secret is to be a big dummy.

and pretend that life is a dream. I know. It's a hard lesson. Well, it's like the whole thing that people talk about these days, which is so real, which is like embracing being cringe is literally allowing yourself

to be happy and free. Talk more about that. Letting yourself be cringy. Or, you know, when like, you know, a kid hits a certain age, like, depending on the kid. Like, for me, it was like probably 10 or 11 where they start going like,

that's weird. Yeah. Oh, that's weird. Why are you saying that? And you realize that they're suddenly very aware, you know, self-conscious and aware. And then thinking everything is weird and wanting to be cool and wanting to fit in in whatever way. I feel like letting that go is very hard and challenging. And trying not to be cool is like so much cooler. I know. But it's like you have to go through it to get there. And we've all been on both. We've been the 10-year-old that's like, Dad, don't pick me up at the mall. Like, don't come inside the mall. Please don't embarrass me.

But it's like sometimes the thing that might be embarrassing is like what brings us the most joy of anything in the world. Like I was, I spent so many years when I started, you know, having this career that I wanted to like prove the kind of artist that I was. And, you know, I wanted people to think of me in a certain way. And I feel like at a certain point I was just like,

this is bringing me no joy at all. Like I, this is not. fulfilling to me in the slightest at all. I mean, I wonder for you, like, at S&L, because when I hosted a few years ago, I was, it is so good. Thank you for saying that. You actually think that. Do you actually think so? Dude, yes. We, okay, well, there are people that we host and, and we're like, oh, like, they did a really nice job. Oh, good for them. Like, that looks like, They had a lot of fun. But you're genuinely funny.

Thank you, God. I mean, it was so scary. But my question to you, though, I mean, and like, I love S&L, but the vibe was very intense. Yes. And the whole week leading up, I was like, why is nobody laughing at all? Because I was like, isn't this show about laughing, but it's so serious. And I think everyone is like, wants to keep their job at the same time. Yeah, that show is like.

It's some serious. A lot of people audition. to keep their job. Yeah. And it's like an emergency room. Like sometimes the emergency room days are like fun and you're like goofing around. And other days you're just like, oh, everybody's scrambling around. And like, like, your, your reference is an emergency room.

I mean, it's as fun as an emergency room. They have fun. Wait, but you, you are a huge fan of comedy and you've talked about this a million times, but you have watched. The office. Girl. How many times for real? Because it says 30 times. It's over that now.

So. What? Well, because I don't ever stop and I never will. You just haven't on a loop. Well, when you asked earlier, I meant to say to your question about like humor and grow, how did you, you know, a big part of that was the office. I mean, I started watching the office when I was like 11 or 12. And that's interesting about cringe because you're right. I mean.

The, like, Gen Z, their relationship to cringe has been really interesting to watch. They were really afraid of it. Mm-hmm. Then shows embrace it. Like, their favorite comedies embraced it. And they almost got to, like, experience it vicariously through someone else. Like, I mean, Michael Scott is the ultimate cringe journey. Yes, 100%.

He's like, oh, my God, you're dying for him. And then by the end, you're like, or he's like Buddha? Literally. Or he's the most, literally. Like, the most tender. I mean, that's what I think is so genius. about the whole show and Michael Scott as a whole, is that he is so awful,

but you, you, he's so undeniably, you can't help but love him and feel for him. Totally. And see yourself in him weirdly. And, like,

kind of aspire to be as open book as him at the end of the day. I think that the amount of times at this point, I mean, I said 30 probably like four years ago. So, I probably rewatch the whole series like three or four times a year. Sorry. It's up, if not more.

Sorry. So Jenna took a little Adderall the other day and added up the hours of what that is. Oh, God. Do you know that it's like 92 days straight? I guess my question to you is like, have you tried Parks and Rec? I love Parks and Rec. I really want to check it out. I'd love for you to check it out. Top five shows of all time.

Get that out of here! I love Parks and Rec. That's... I would love for you to check it out. In Parks and Rec is one of the greatest performances in history and everybody knows it. And that is one of my top five shows. So moving on. But I feel you, well, getting back to the office and just that I'm...

Okay. Also, I would say that the... idea that TV shows are like a comfort and a way to self-soothe. Yes. Is really, really, I really relate. I think a lot of people relate, especially comedy, because there's something about the way in which there's a tiny bit of conflict. People aren't supposed to get along. Yeah. They figure it out. They go on with their day. Everybody's okay. And then if you re-watch it and re-watch it and re-watch it, you know how it's going to. Dude, a hundred percent. This is, this is my exact experience. Exactly what you were saying. It's a self-soothing. A hundred percent.

It's a self-soothing, like, knowing the end, no anxiety thing. Yes. It's like, yeah, because I have trouble watching movies that are, I have trouble watching, doing anything that's new, watching entertainment that is new. Yes. Because I feel like it's like an ADHD. I just, all I do is rewatch the same movie, the same show, eat the same meal, listen to the same song over and over.

Yeah. In a way that's like, like, it's like a little bit over the top. depends on how you frame it, right? If someone else was there, they're like, you know, but when I'm alone, obviously, it's the most amazing thing in the world. What TV show, you watch The Office Over and Over, what movie do you watch over and over, what meal do you eat over and over and over? Amazing questions.

The Office Over and Over, New Girl, Over and Over. Oh, my God. Movie, like, Ferris Bueller's Day Off, I've seen an unbelievable amount of times. Over the Hedge. I have seen so many times. Wait, over the hedge. Over the hedge. Steve Carrell plays the squirrel.

Oh, it's an animated one. Yeah, it's an animated movie. Okay, okay, okay. It's unbelievably amazing. I have forced so many people to watch it. Spirit, unbelievable film. Wait, is that an anime? Animated.

It's a horse. Oh, spirit, the horse movie. Yes, the horse girl. I am a horse girl. And you prove my theory. Jennifer Lawrence was in here. She's a horse girl. Yes, I know this.

Horse girls have beautiful hair. I did see to say that. And you've got great hair. You always have. And horses, you're a part horse. Also, I was the year of the horse. Born the year of the horse. That's true.

Are we in the year of the gal of the fire horse? The fire horse. You have beautiful hair too. Thank you so much. Do you like horses? I don't have beautiful hair. Thank you, though. I don't like horses.

They scare the shit out of me. I love them. Have you ridden them? I reluctantly have ridden them. I rode one recently with. my son in Iceland a couple years ago. I was like, you know what? I'm going to ride. Yeah, I'm going like, and I, the whole time I was like, I cannot wait to get off. It hurts so bad. It hurts. Physically? Yeah. I hurt my. Yeah, the who's. The who's and the haze. It does. It hurt my,

my inner leg upper butt, front butt region. Front butt. Dude. It hurt. Well, like anything, you get used to that. That's true. That's true. And then you're a champion. Um, okay. You have had the phrase youngest used on you constantly, the youngest to reach 100 million Spotify streams, youngest winner album of the year, record of the year, youngest person ever to win two Academy Awards in any category. Oh my God. Do you, is it kind of nice to reach your 20s and be a little bit away from that kind of young wonder kindi like vibe? Dude. Do you know any media that's nice? Yeah, I do. I mean, you're still very young, but you're also not. Well, I guess I never, like, thought that I would ever not be a teenager.

Like, it's not like I like, I don't know, I just was like, I'm, this will be me forever. There's no other, you know, I remember when I was like 17, I was like, okay, and I am the person I will be forever right now. And I, and it's just not how it works, obviously. And I am so excited to age and I'm so excited from my face to age and my body to age and not change. you know, and I want my kids to look at me and have my face look like their face and not be some botched version of whatever the fuck is going on out there right now. You know what I'm saying? So anyways.

Yes. And what's really wild about you being like, when I was 17, I thought I was a person I was. We knew you at 17. We like saw you get a cake from your 17 in the dock, you know? Like, happy 17th birthday. Oh, my God. Yeah, you're right. And so you not only are you figuring yourself out,

but everybody's watching you figure it out. Mm-hmm. And there's, you know, I'm saying the obvious, but we all go through versions of ourselves privately. You had to go through versions of yourself publicly. And you also had to, whatever change you decided to make that day, affected a bunch of people. It's not like you're like, I'm going to come out my hair now.

And everyone's like, we got to change the posters. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It becomes a thing where you, you, like trying new versions of yourself everybody else weighs in on that or has something. How? Because for minute one, Billy, from when I saw you to now, there was some kind of inner governor, a voice that you would, it felt like, check in with to make decisions.

Who is that? Where is that come from? Is that true? Is that how you make decisions? Do you go to your gut first? How do you make decisions? Wow, these are amazing questions. God, thank you.

You are absolutely eating it up right now. Wow. I feel like it is a gut thing. Like, I think that weirdly, as much as it was a strain on my youth becoming famous at 14, 13, 14, 15. I weirdly do think that I had that element of teenage. age carelessness. Yeah, right. Even though I was self-conscious and very, you know, trying to be cool, I also was myself in a

way that I look back on and I'm like so grateful that I was that way. And I think that weirdly I'm glad that it happened when I was so young because, and I think that it is attributed also, I have to say, to just the person that I've always been since I was a little kid, just very strong-willed and very, very, very. very bossy, extremely bossy and very needing things to go my way and also being very honest and blunt, I guess. Yes. And so I think when I started doing interviews or being asked any kind of a question, I was just

very, very honest. And I also, I did PR training when I was 14 and I sobbed through it. I hated it so much. It was literally like the scariest shit of all time. What made it so scary? I was just like... What made you sob? First of all, the woman who did it to me was like...

I would... She would ask me a question because this is how PR training works. Okay, I should know this. Did you do PR training? No, obviously not. Well, I only did one session and it was like under an hour and I sobbed and I left and I did not follow any of the rules after that. But basically, like, she'll, you know, they'll tell you what you should say or the kind of direction you should go. And then they'll ask you the question, like pretending you're in an interview.

And so I would start answering the way I would want to answer. And she would like kind of cut me off and be like, no, no, you need to start saying this. Or no, you should be saying this. Don't say that. Don't give them that. And it was important for me to learn. And I'm glad I learned it. But similar to learning to dream.

drive safely, it's good to know how to drive safely so that you can use your, so that then you can, this is really a bad analogy, but so then you can bend the rules according to safety, but like you know, you know what is safe and good and right, but then I'm going to go be, you know, precise about, you know what I'm saying? I don't know. Do you know what I mean? Absolutely. It's like figuring out your own boundaries, like figuring out within those boundaries how to play. Authenticity is like major for you. It's like what you're looking for. It's what you want to put out into the world.

And like you feel it and you just kind of can't fake it. I know. And it's probably a little painful when you're not being authentic. I hate it. Yeah. I hate it. And I think when things get more mainstream and then more people who aren't your fans are looking at you and hearing it, it's, it becomes like scary.

I mean, I feel, I feel like sad thinking back, not even thinking back, just thinking about how I've definitely like, like, 70, 75% come down on my, my, not honesty, but my sharing of myself. I used to be literally like 99% complete, like, oversharing. with the entire world, which I loved. Because I also, I am a fan, and I've always been a fan. Like, I'm a horse girl, and I am a fan girl. And I always have been.

And these are like, imbelieber. I was a believer. And you let everyone into that, like, tender place. But I did it specifically because I knew that as a fan, I wanted my favorite artists to do that. I wanted realness and honesty. And you do that. You make people feel that way.

I mean, your lyrics make people feel so seen, Billy. Like, so, like, there's a reason why, okay, I'm going to praise and praise you again. Like, when we're, when I go to your show, I went to show. And like, and like everyone's singing, you know, um, uh, you know, um, you make me hate this city. Like, you know, and everybody's like, those, like those, let's take that song. Let's take, let's take that song. Okay, okay. Hold on, I'm going to sing the entire song to you.

Let's go. Okay, but that moment, oh my God, this is not, okay, I have to break some news. This is not my laptop. I forgot my laptop today. This is Sam's laptop and I'm completely stressed out. Okay. And for those people watching, this laptop is bigger than my usual laptop. They probably already noticed that.

And don't write in. No comments about laptop. Okay, I'm so old. I got to read it. Okay. Okay, but when you said... Okay, but when you were like, when you say, because I'd never treat me this shitty,

you made me hate this city. I don't talk shit about you on the internet. When you're singing it, when you're singing it and I'm singing it, you're making, you're being, like, you're speaking plainly, I guess, is the way to say it. You're not hiding behind some like objects or metaphors. And that authenticity, it's like, it's like a direct hit between the audience and you. Like your lyrics are so fucking great. I guess my question is.

I guess I have to give you a question. How do you write lyrics? Oh, gosh. Terrible question. Forget it. Let's sing more. Okay. How do you write lyrics?

Because that's embarrassing. I mean, that shit's embarrassing. It is, bitch. It is. It really is. That shit's embarrassing. You are my everything. It's so real.

Everybody felt that, feels that. Thank you. With your lyrics. But I'm genuinely curious. Do you write a lyric and then you go, that's too... I feel the way about dialogue sometimes. I'll write something. I'll be like, nobody talks like that.

Right, right. Like, nobody's going to say that. I mean, dialogue to me is really impressive to write. Like, I don't understand how you do that. That, to me, I can't, like, fathom writing a script at all. Like, I don't know why. I think I just, I have a similar feeling to, like, how people talk to me who, you know, have never made music or are musical at all, where they're like, how do you possibly do that? Like, I can't begin to fathom how to write dialogue.

Right. So, but I've watched you write lyrics and you've let us watch you write it. And it feels like you're doing a similar thing, which is like, it's like you try on a lyric and you're like, is that real? Mm-hmm. You're asking yourself, is that a real thing? Even though it's not always about a real thing. It's just like, does that lyric feel right in my head? Like singing it out loud. Well, so my answer to this is interesting because I don't. like writing music. I've heard you say this. I have said many times. And I have grown to like it so much more over the years.

And honestly, like, growing up and becoming an adult and not worrying about being cool really has helped me write music because a big part of making anything and especially music is allowing it to be bad before it's good. It's like so many things. It's like literally anything. And I think like it's so hard when you want to be good at something and especially when you have the pressure of people seeing it and you're like, well, it has to be good. So I can't even, I can't let this be bad for even one second. It'll stop you from doing it at all.

And so I like my love is singing. Singing is like my true, true soulmate. Like singing is the thing that I love more than anything in the world. And having songs that I have written to sing is the goal. Like that's what I love about writing music. And also, when I am, because I write everything with my brother, and I write alone every now and then, but it doesn't bring me joy when I write it alone.

And also I'm too critical and I'm like, it's just frustrating for me. And when I work with my brother, like I was saying to somebody, you know, because somebody said, like, are you making an album right now because you want to make a new album or because you're required in your contract too? And I was like, I've never thought about that once. Yeah. And I feel that I'm lucky to feel that way because I don't care if it's because I have to. It's actually like any excuse to hang out with my brother I'll take. Come on. And we get to make music that we both

love. And I think that what's interesting about not loving the process of writing music is I love the outcome so much. I love my music more than any other music. And I think that that, I think that people hear that and think like, what the heck? Like, oh, you're listening to your own music. And it's like, well, yeah, that's why I make it. It's like, it's like similar to like, I make my own perfume because I really like the smell of it and I want to wear it. Yes. You know, so I make music to listen to it, to enjoy it, and to sing it. It's my favorite thing in the world. You're so good at singing. It's so good that you like the thing that you're so good at. Thank God. No kidding. This episode is brought to you by Pure Leaf iced tea. Everything

is competing for your attention, your phone, your laptop, that email that says, quick question, and it's not quick. It's never quick. So sometimes step back, take a minute, open something refreshing like Pure Leaf Ice Tea. It's smooth, crisp, and made with real tea. No rush, no drama. So take a moment for yourself and find relief with Pure Leaf. Signature lemon and raspberry flavors are now available in six-pack cans. I like to ask singers this.

We had Haley. Whatever we're friends we text. Whatever we're friends we text. That's how I feel about her too. Holy shit. Very cool. And totally not, don't make a big deal out of it. But I asked her this and I like to ask,

like your first relationship to your voice. Like when you were like, I like my voice. Do you remember? You must have been a tiny one because you were singing at a very young age and you were encouraged to sing a lot. But that thing when you sing and you think like, whatever's coming out is like... Is kind of good.

Yeah, is good. Whoa. Do you remember a feeling of that? Well, it's so interesting because I have been singing for my entire life. Like, I don't, there was never a beginning. It was just, I was singing and singing and singing. And I grew up in a very musical household. Piano always being played, guitar being played, you know, my mom was a songwriter.

And, you know, Phineas started writing songs before I did. He was older than me. And so there was always music around. And so I was very encouraged to sing. I think, you know, I was homeschooled, but in the homeschool community, there's like, you know, DIY talent shows type stuff. There's like homeschool talent shows. And it was the only thing I looked for.

I literally, all I wanted to do was be on a stage singing or dancing. It was like a little baby Coachella that you were getting ready for. Yeah. And the first song I sang was Tomorrow. from Annie, of course. And I think I was like, eight or... Wait, no, six.

I think I was six. And, right? I don't know. I was a hard time with numbers, ages. But that, I remember, like... I don't even think I did, but I loved it so much. And the feeling of the crowd cheering

was just the greatest thing. But I think my relationship to my voice, like, I... This is going to sound weird, and I hope it doesn't sound like pick me because I really mean it. No more cringe. It's over. No more pick me. No more cring. No more. Yeah, you're right. But I never, like, I didn't think of myself as a singer. I just loved to sing. And then I remember, like, when I was about 11, like Phineas would, you know, be with his friends and sometimes be like, well, my sister has a really good voice. And I'd be like, what? And then he'd be like, Billy, sing. the beginning of Baby by Justin Bieber. And I would like be like, whoa, whoa. And his friends would be like, oh, you know, whoa, wow.

She's pretty good. Yeah. And I remember like doing it once and like messing it up. And I was like, I was so upset. Because really I wanted to be a dancer. That was like my thing. I know. And they would like make me sing at like the dance sleepover.

Like they'd be like, Billy, go up and sing. And I was too embarrassed. But then I would. That, I mean, that's like. like the, you're like the athlete that like played basketball and then like was like, I think I also like baseball and you're like win the world series. Like you were such a good dancer. I was barely a good dancer. I was like loved dancing so much.

What was your thing? Were you ballet? I started dancing because I loved tap dancing. Oh, come on. Billy. So I was a tapper. What? Yeah, I was a tapper.

And then once I started getting into tap, I was like, oh, I like this. Cute. And then I started doing. hip hop and I loved hip hop and then I would do contemporary. So those are my top three. And then because I fell in love with dance, I was like, well, now I have to do ballet to be part of the other stuff because it was required. And then jazz and then lyrical. Have you ever had a thing of like maybe I'll dance when I sing? Right when I started getting good, I got a horrible injury and then I was not allowed to dance. And I never danced ever again. Except I started dancing recently again.

I'm in like a class every now and then. That's cool. Which is really cute. That's very cool. What did you injure if you had my hands? I injured my hip, but basically that took me out. Whoa, that's so intense and so interesting like how life, like so that opens the door to the thing that you love doing anyway. Right.

Well, dude, what's crazy about the timing of it is that I started getting really serious with dance when I was 12, no, 13. and I like I dyed my hair platinum white that year and then Phineas was like dude should we make a SoundCloud page for fun and like maybe make some songs and put them out for fun like for our friends to play or whatever and so at the same time as I was getting really serious about dance we had this idea we recorded like some little stupid songs

and then my one of my dance teachers Fred Diaz said and I've told this story before but literally like the old I get the more insane it is. He was like, Billy, stay behind after class one day. And he was like, can you and Phineas make a song so that I can choreograph a dance to it? And we can do it for the recital next year. And I was so excited. And I thought, you know what?

Finnis just wrote a song that I think is called Ocean Eyes. Maybe it could be that one. I go home. I'm like, Phineas, Fred wants us to make a song. Let's make it as like danceable as possible. We went home. We recorded Oceanize. which he had written for his band.

And he said it didn't feel right. And he wanted me to sing it anyway. So we were already kind of going to do that. Anyway, we went to put it on SoundCloud. It had a free download link up. Anyone could download it for free. And we only put it on SoundCloud to send an easier link to the dance teacher. And so we did.

And then like that week I was getting ready for competition. And then a week later, Finney's called me. And he was like, Billy Ocean Ice has a thousand streams. A thousand. And we were cheering. we were screaming and I was like, this is the most amazing thing that's ever happened to me. This is all I could ever dream of. A couple weeks go by.

It starts getting bigger and bigger. Like, Fred starts choreographing a dance to it. Competition is the next week. Things are getting bigger. It's like hilly-dilly is posting it and like, you know, new music Friday or whatever. And like all these new outlets and we were getting reached out to by these labels and stuff. And then it's the last rehearsal before my first dance competition of the season. I have a solo in each combo.

I was so excited. We were done with rehearsal. We were about to leave. And our teacher was like, wait, let's do one more just to film it. And so we did one more, and we filmed it. And in the middle of my little twerk,

literally, 12 years old, I'm like, my hip is like, and I got injured. And then I was poof, laying on the floor, couldn't walk, couldn't dance, definitely, couldn't do anything. and was basically like bedridden for at least a week.

And then I was on crutches. And I literally never danced again. You missed the whole competition? I missed every single competition I didn't get to do one. Billy, I have chills right now. Because talk about. But then that week I went to all these meetings in my crutches. I met with Interscope.

I met with all these different booking agents. I had my crutches. And I was so sad. I was like, I was like, I miss a competition. Oh my God. I mean, there's people listening to this right now who are going to be like having just missed something that they think is the biggest thing in their life. It's pretty wild. They're going to be like, I have chills too. That's so, that is what I have chosen in my own story.

The universe decided at that like sliding doors moment of like we're going to we're going to stop. We're going to interrupt this program. And there's no deeper like sadness than thinking I, I'm not going to get to do the thing that's right in front of me that I'm supposed to do. and then like this little hey over here kind of thing happening whoa when you think something is ruining your life and it's really actually saving your life yes and I like that you're dancing again because there must be a little bit of trauma honestly around all of it so like you're just you're coming back as an adult going back and being like okay maybe I can do this again as like a version that feels good to me like where I can revisit it yeah it's been really nice yeah and it's so non-pressure you know it's Well, we do need you to compete.

Because we need you to do that. We need you to finish that routine. Okay, yeah, you're right. I mean, that would be the movie is like, you go back out there. And it's competitions. To encore in Las Vegas with all the other teenagers. And, I mean, I know we all, like, all of our stuff comes from our family, but it is. All of our stuff comes from our family.

And I imagine in that moment, I'm, like, really feeling for your mom in that moment, right? Like, she's got the saddest kid. Mm-hmm. And both your parents. Oh my God. Yeah. Like the saddest Billy who's missed this. Brokenhearted little. And in pain.

And then also your brother being like, hey, let's do this, sister. And then it catching on and watching your family dynamic, and again, I don't know, but having the privilege of getting to see you interact with each other, I feel like that's the way in which you all kind of support. those moments, like the big moments and the low moments. Yes. Like that's very special. I know.

Very special. It's really special. And I feel so in hindsight and present day. Yeah. Yeah. So, so grateful for that. Because I think I didn't, I didn't even realize what I had because I already had it. And so I didn't know there could be another option. Yeah.

And I think that seeing, you know, sometimes, like some other people who maybe didn't have that support having to go through all of this stuff alone is really it really I just really feel for them and I feel like thank God I had my mom thank God I had my brother especially thank God I had my dad and the home that we that I grew up in you know and like my dog you know like these are all things that really I like that you bring up your dog a lot I love dogs you still have your dog like she passed away a couple years ago but she was old as all fucking hell she was so old. God damn it. Her legs were, it was like this kind of situation. What was her name and tell us about your doggy? Her name was Pepper and she lived to like 16. She was old as shit. I'm

telling you. She was a mutt. She looked just like peaty from the little rascals, which I loved. I loved little rascals as a kid. She had like a, she was a pit bull mix and she had like a circle around her eye. If I didn't have, you know, a dog with reactive issues, I would literally have 17 dogs. Like, I have a dog. He's the sweetest boy in the whole wide world. His name is Shark. He's the sweetest boy. He loves people. He loves his dog friends. He just has, he has a lot of reactive issues. Yeah. And he has since, I mean, I had him since he was five weeks old. So it's interesting, like, I always thought, you know, a dog is the way they are because of how they were raised. And to an extent that is true. Yeah. But they're like people also. And we are the way we are, no matter what

anybody does. And he just has like, he's just really anxious. He's very, very anxious. And when he sees a dog that he doesn't know, he sees it as a threat or something. But, you know, if I introduce him in the right way to other dogs, then it's all perfect. But of course, like, of course you would be a person that would be able to handle something like that and understand that. Oh my God, yeah. But I think the difference is like he, he's a big gray pit bull mix. Yeah. And so the difference in having a reactive, bigger, stronger, more marginalized breed when they have anxiety and reactive behavioral issues is there's so much more of a stigma against them. And people already, like, the stigma against the bully breed and everything within there is so messed up. It's like, you know, someone can

have like a little tiny chihuahua. I love chihuahuas. I love all dogs. But like someone might have like a little dog who's like literally biting everyone and like and it's like and it's like and it just kills me like my reactive dog owners out there yeah you are seen you are loved it's a lot of work but i have like also also you know i think it's like i have such a love for animals it makes sense to me that you're an empathetic creative open-hearted person living in a family that tries to be that way too that you're trying to pay attention to that too Also, if I may, and I'm sure you get this projected on you a lot, but the specialness of your relationship with you and Phineas, like, it's, it's like, it's really delicious. Because it's kind of like every, it's like watching a healthy, it's like watching healthy siblings and watching a, like, just a man support.

I know, I know. That just even that. I know. Forget them being related. Just like a very, very talented. self-possessed, self-actualized man, being very happy for a woman's success is already just like we're all like really hungry for it. I know.

I know. And just like speaking nicely about women we're all just like looking for. And then the way that you guys speak about each other. Yeah. It's truly a magical gift that I've been given by who knows what, you know, my parents. Yeah. But you guys work a little differently. Is that hard when you're working differently?

Do you argue? We argue, but it's very, it's not like real argue. I don't know how to put it. I think we go through periods of, you know, being not on the same wavelength. Like we're in different periods of our lives, and that's when we can kind of butt heads a little bit. But even then, I mean, like we got into like nothing, like something that was so didn't need to be an argument.

And like literally we sat there and I said, can we go make music now? And he's like, yeah. And we went downstairs and we made a song and we were laughing and giggling and talking. And I was just thinking that day, I was like, it is truly amazing that we can do that. And it's amazing that, you know, and I know all siblings have different relationships and that's a rare thing to have with a person, especially like a sibling and you work with them. But it is kind of the blessing of working with your sibling because you can't, you can't, break up with your sibling. It's not like, yes, some people do. This is true. But I guess I mean

like the arguing, it's like you can say something so hurtful. Yes. Especially like a little sister. I can say something insane to Phineas. You have. And I have. I sure have. And also it's like, sometimes I bet the challenge is to make sure you're not, you're like not too rough on each other. Yep. For sure. Because the more familiar you are, the more. I'm thinking of that amazing scene and your doc where in the kitchen where Phineas is like, I think we should just finish the record. And you're like, the record is bad. This sucks. And your mom is like, or, right.

I think you can learn from each other. You know, like perfect mom. Like, I think Phineas has something that you need Billy and Billy. I know. Bless her heart. Yeah. And your dad is like, I'm going to go outside and fix the car. And you're all representing the voices in like a creative process.

Yeah. You're all representing that. And you're all those things at once. And you would probably not say to someone, you were working with like, that was bad, that sucks. Yeah. It's not good. It's lame.

Yeah. Or like anything that I say to him. It's like we can literally jump all of the like, um, uh, politeness. You know, we don't have to be like saving feelings and, you know, I can literally just be like, God, that's stupid. You know, that's such a stupid idea. And he's like, well, fuck you.

You know, it's like it's, it just works like that. Yeah. And, uh, I feel like. I'm also just, you know, in another life, the life that we didn't have this happen to us, I would have maybe gone to college and moved away or moved away in general. And what would, you know, I talk to friends or see online, like people talking about how, like, they don't live with their sibling anymore and they don't get to see their sibling. And it's like you live completely different lives.

And I just feel like so grateful that I get to live a life where my brother is a constant part of my life. Yeah. And that I don't have to live in a different state than my brother and that I don't have to like never see him and not have. You know, and I think that's usually how it goes. And I just, I feel really lucky in that way. And like you said, his, he is like just aside from how talented and incredible. he is and how he is like my best friend, he loves me so much. I know, Billy.

He is just the greatest brother in the world and the way that he has looked out for me. He's a big time protector. So he wanted me to ask you a question. He did? Yeah. And I feel like it's a, it's a fake, I feel like it's a funny story. It's a fake question. Okay.

What is tomato bisque soup? And how did you lose it? Wow. Okay. Wow. Let's hear it. Well, you know, all right, I'll tell you. I'll tell you exactly the answer.

I, okay, how far do I go? Well, I actually haven't talked about this. I was thinking literally last night how I haven't, nobody knows this is happening. It's cute. It's very sweet. It's an innocent, cute thing. For my birthday, I was given. A little hamster.

Oh. And she was a rescue from a house, a hoarder house, that had 60 loose, free-roaming hamsters everywhere being just in shit and like in stuff. And she was rescued. That hamster won the lottery. And she is so cute. What's her name? Her name is tomato bisque soup.

And. And we're taking a turn. So, tomato. as we call her. She's a little dwarf hamster. She's literally this fucking big. She is so goddamn cute. You wouldn't even believe it.

But she's used to being on the street. She's used to running around. She is used to being on the street. She's free roaming bitch. She's free. She's wild. Not wild, but like living her life in her condition of tough. Yeah.

Sorry. I got her on my birthday, which was December 18th. and I got her, like, I must have spent, you know, lots of money on, like, random shit. Like, little, like, I got her, like, little, because they have to have enrichment. So they have a wheel and they have to have different levels. Sure. Yeah. Just stay. And I do it all myself. I'll show you. I will literally show you. Her house is in, she lives in a fucking mansion, bitch.

Her house is so big. It's, like, literally, like, her house is, like, this big and this tall. Nice. And it's wooden. But so there's these little. little vents in the top corners of the house that are like this big. They're holes so they can breathe. Even I know that hamsters can get through those holes. It was a hamster house.

Yeah, it was for a hamster. Right. You'd think that they would know that. Well, and also it's up high, right? So they can't even, they can't climb up the wall. Sorry. Sorry. So tomato's wild little freaky self. So it's like a month since I've had her.

I get home from a trip I went on a little trip and I had put her seeds out and they're also nocturnal so you usually don't see them in the day and also they like to burrow so like sometimes I wouldn't see her she's like barely you can't really

you're not always seeing her when she is there but she loves pumpkin seeds so much like little pipitas she loves them so much and so I know that she's very happy if I put her pumpkin seeds and she immediately comes out So before I had left, I put out some pumpkin seeds.

And then I came home many days later and the pumpkin seeds were still there. God damn it. And I thought, you know what? And you pulled back a little cover and she had made a little dummy like welcome to Hacotras. She had escaped. It was like in Shawshank. A little fake body. And she pulled it into the side.

She made a little tunnel. Well, so I pictured. I just thought like, oh, she's dug herself into a cute little. tunnel, she's sleeping. Four days have gone by since the last sight of her. So anyway, one day, oh no, I'm like, you know what? I'm going to look for her because I want to make sure she's there. Of course. Obviously she's there, but I'm just going to make sure. So I fucking go, where I keep her house is in my closet on this like shelf that's like five feet up. And I take all of her houses out of her house. I take all of, there's these things called sprays,

are these long plants for enrichment. And I take them all out. No sign of her. There's no sign of her. And I'm like, oh, what's going on? But I'm like, okay, but I still have to like dig through the bedding because she likes to crawl into the paper bedding. And I'm like starting to like worry a little.

But then I'm like, am I going to find a little body? And that was really freaking me out. But I'm like, I'm not. It's fine. She's going to be in here. She's sleeping. She's tough. And so I take everything out.

It's only her bedding left over. And I'm literally like, it's like looking through a lake for a dead body. I was like literally like doing like one of these. Like fingers through everything. I take everything out and she's nowhere to be seen. Oh no. Gone. The bitch has literally vanished into the air.

And your VCR was missing. Right. No, I'm just kidding. Right. The night that she was gone. I'm like texting all my friends like she's gone. R.I.P. Love her so much.

What the hell? One month of having. a hamster and I already lost her into the walls. Like, what the hell? Yeah. And she could have gone anywhere, like, truly anywhere. And I'm like, just as a Hail Mary, there's no way this is going to work, but I'm going to put her wheel on the ground and I'm going to put her favorite seeds on the wheel. And I'm going to put her little mushroom house on the ground.

And I'm going to put her bedding in it and I'm going to put her seeds in it. And like, maybe a miracle will happen and she'll appear. She'll reappear. Of course I don't think this is actually going to happen. I go to sleep. Oh my God. I'm like looking at videos of her. And we wake up.

We're talking about like, this is so sad. How did we do this? How could we do this to her? We failed her. We are horrible people. We lay in bed for an hour talking about, I can't believe we've done this. And I'm like, I'm going to go get dressed.

Also like, let's go check on the sad little seeds we left out. Right. I go into my closet, the fucking seeds are gone. Gone. Dang. And her bedding has been pulled out of her house that she, and I know that that's like a thing she does. She pulls out her bedding.

Her seeds are gone. And I'm like, dude, her seeds are fucking gone. Is she here? And I take some more seeds and I go, tomato. And I have a voice that she always comes out to. I go, tomato, excuse me. Excuse me, tomato. And I hear, no.

In the fucking wall, it has been four days that she has been missing. I hear this. And I take the seeds and I like lay them all around. And I literally keep hearing like, she fucking crawls out of the wall. I have literally chills. She crawls out of the wall and crawls right into my hand.

And she's eating the seeds and she's like, what up? Like she's like, what a bitch. She's wearing a little sombrero. She had been living in the walls of the closet for four days with no food and no water waiting for me to fucking look for her and find her. Can you believe this story?

She's incredible. She's amazing. Since then, I have gotten her a much bigger house with very thin, venting. I don't think she needs to be congratulated for escaping. This is like supporting bad behavior. Yeah, I know. You're right. She gets a bigger house. She got a bigger house. I felt bad. I felt like, oh, no, did you not like living in this small house? Now she's so happy. She literally like, her life is amazing. Really quick. And then I'll shut out. Because I've been talking about this forever. Look at her house. Her house is insane. Wait, I just cleaned it up. Yes. That's my worst nightmare is that I get a rodent and it goes into the walls. So. Okay, here is Tomatoes giant mansion house. So, like, if you look, here's...

So she has different levels. She has her little tunnel where she can crawl. She has a lot going on. Listeners, it's like there's a... It looks like an aquarium but with, like, outdoor seating. Oh, there's almost like a fire pit, like if she had guests over. Yeah. Because I give her a different bedding such that she has different textures.

It's really nice. Really nice textures. Right? Yeah. And then... It looks like a beautiful L.A. She's spa. I mean, it is.

Here's her on her wheel. Wait. Oh, she's really cute. She's so freaking cute. And then here's me showing, I bonked my knee. You can actually hear it happening. She's running really fast. Look at how nice. And then here's the news.

This is what happened to my knee. So there is Finnees' answer. That's Finnez's question. I'm glad he asked. There we go. Incredible story. And scene. And scene.

Okay, we're going to finish with the lightning round. Finish! Wait, but by there's so much to talk about it. There's so much about it. Okay, but we're going to get into a lighting round. Okay, go. Here we go. Just quick thoughts on these things.

Tarantulas. Yes, yes. Are you afraid of spiders? I mean, I'm not afraid, but you know. But it's a spider. It's okay. You know, I'm down, but I don't want to touch it or anything, but I'm glad you like it. Horses, we talked about love.

Survivor, the show Survivor. Yes, the show Survivor. They have my own Billy. I look at. They named the immunity idol after you? It's a Billy Elish idol. So basically, like, I wrote a letter to the contestants being like, here's your secret idol.

If you use this idol, you can, you know, it's like, you know, have you seen Survivor? What do you love about Survivor? I love imagining that I could one day do it. Yeah. But I am so bad with like, like the math part of the problems are the things that I couldn't do. Yeah. Like I could do the, I feel that I could do the physical stuff.

I mean, I say that, which sure. Who knows? Because it's so hard, seeming. But like when they have to like solve the, you know. I wouldn't be good at like when people like, I have a little bit of like defiance disorder. So if they were like, you have to do two. I'd be like, I don't have to do anything. I quit.

I quit. Yeah, I have the same thing. I quit. Yeah, I have the same thing. Okay, music you're listening to you right now. Honestly, I've been listening to Kate Bush this week. It's me. I'm Kathy.

Yeah, dude. Well, that just, I just love the spooky whimsical of it all. Isn't she incredible? She's amazing. I, like, didn't even know she was so amazing. I mean, Army Dreamers is so good. So good. Wuthering Heights.

Oh, my God. Have you heard the Peter Gabriel, the song she sang with Peter Gabriel, don't give up? No. How does it go? Hold on. I'm sure you've heard it. Do you think they were fucking? I hope so.

God, I hope so. I just feel like this shoot where they're in a hug the entire song. God, I hope so. That's amazing. Isn't it so good? Wow. Yeah, I don't, I'm not, I did not know Kate Bush was like that. Yeah.

Amazing. Okay, we're going to finish with two things. You have a big movie coming out, and it is, I forgot. That is like, It's a concert. It's a movie about your... It's a concert movie. Yes.

So it's a concert film mainly. There's like some behind the scenes dock type stuff. Cool. But specifically it is very cool. The show, the Hit Me Hard and Soft tour filmed in 3D, which is fucking awesome.

Awesome. And incredible tour. Really cool. Thank you. I agree. I loved it so much. I just, I, A, I had the best time. Yeah.

And B, it's like the best show I've ever made. Yeah, it was so good. I just, I felt, I felt proud to call that my show every single night that I did it. Yeah. And I, I mourn the end of that tour. And I'm excited for the next tour, but I am also like so, so grateful that we have it filmed forever. Like, I will be able to watch it whenever I want forever, in 3D, feel like I'm there. Yeah.

And same goes for everyone who watches it, you know. People who didn't get to go to the show and they get to experience it. who did and want to re-experience it. Anyway. And what I love about that is I, like, I like to watch things in my home early in the afternoon. Or, like, I don't like to, like, shows are too late. I don't like to go out. Oh, I see what you're saying.

Shows are late. Shows are super late. And, like, loud, and then you stand for so long. Yeah. And I like, I hate standing. I hate, I can't see anything. I hate, I just hate standing. I hate the feeling of it.

Same. I love to sit. Would you ever consider doing an afternoon show? for people who like to go to afternoon jobs. It's so funny. I've like never even, it's just such a thing you do. I don't even thought about it. That's what's great about like music festivals, honestly.

That's like kind of what I miss about being on the earlier side of the lineup because you get to get you get to go out there and the sun is out. Yeah. And like it's beautiful and then you get a night after. It's pretty nice. Yeah. Maybe I'll do that someday. A little matinee.

Oh my God, a matinee tour. What's your bedtime? Well, last night I had a fantastic. sleep. Not to brag. What did you get? What's your sleep? I'm very worried about your sleep. Why? You're a young person. That's true. I used to be terrible with sleep. I never slept.

For some reason since last summer, when I was in Europe for tour, like I had three different tour legs where I was gone and then home and then gone in Europe each time. But so because of that, I was like really getting, becoming an early bedtimer. And so since then, I've kind of kind of kept that up.

Like, I try to go to sleep before midnight every night, which used to be... Love this for you. Couldn't... I used to go to sleep like earliest 2 a.m. Yeah. Usually 3, maybe 4. Yeah. And now I'm like, if I can get in bed at like 10,

well, I mean, that's... Can you believe that I can do that? That's amazing. Yeah. And also, sometimes like, the, like, happiness is just one sleep away. 100%. Like, it just really is sometimes like the thing, The reason why my day is so bad is because I haven't slept.

100%. I love it. Honestly, like, when I got this aura ring, and this is not sponsored, I just, I love this aura ring, dude. And since I got it, I've been like, I really don't play about my sleep now. I really need my sleep. Let me as we finish up, because I know we've kept you, but as a girl, I don't have anything else to do.

Same. Wait, I was just going to say. Okay, we got to wrap this up. Oh, I, I feel like when I'm at a concert and people are talking, really loud, I will turn around and say, please shut up. Yeah. Please shut the fuck up. Or just like, be quiet.

You know, like that I will do. Yeah. 100%. Yeah. Or a movie. Not so much. I'd be talking through a movie. I'd be talking.

I know. Billy, I have to comment. That is your Jen. You guys chat through everything. I literally like, this has done to me so much. So many. times has someone who I love dearly gone. Right.

Because I can't shut the fuck up. Also, like, I'm a reactor. Like, I react audibly. Let me remind people, like, I realize, as I'm talking to you about this, that, like, you have Tourette's. Well, I was just going to say that. I was just going to say that. I do have Tourette's, and, you know,

I have vocal tics, but luckily for me and for everyone else, they're mostly just noises, and I can keep them pretty quiet. I go through phases of words becoming tics, but there's a thing called suppressing, if you ever heard of it. And, you know, when I'm in an interview, I'm doing everything in my power to suppress all of my ticks constantly. And as soon as I leave the room, I have to let them all out with whatever, you know.

You have helped me a lot, honestly. I'm realizing now as I'm talking to you and getting to know you and meeting you, you've helped me a lot with my own intrusive thoughts, which I didn't really know. didn't have that term growing up. I didn't quite know what it was. Right. And you're, you having them in real time or talking about them or even just like softly joking about them, like the getting all the way full circle back to the idea of what we talked to the very beginning, which is like coping mechanism and yourself soothing, all that stuff. And the way that

you like, like, that you feel like comedy is important for life like we are living to laugh. It felt that way when I would have a thought that I just thought like, this is a really bad thought. Yep. This is a really bad end. This is, this one I'm going to really never, ever, ever share, right? Like, oohie, this is, and it, and it took me so long in my adult life to realize those were intrusive thoughts and what they were. And you really, really helped me with that. Really? Yeah. Thank you for that. You really did. You were an example of someone. I know, I just, I know it so well. God. Now imagine those intrusive thoughts, but your mouth has to say them out loud. Right. And that is Tourette's syndrome. And I think what's troubling about the way that people do not understand what Tourette's is, like when people are like, you know, if I like start having like a tick attack or whatever, like a lot of ticks in a row, and people are like, are you okay?

You know, it's like, this is very much normal. Yeah. Like, you know. And also like, well, I didn't notice. It's like if you didn't see me tick today, you're not looking at my knees, which are ticking. constantly under this table and my, you know, elbows that are like, I'm clenching my arms the entire time and I'm doing this for the entire. And it's because I'm currently, because I'm on camera and I'm having a conversation and I'm trying not to be distracting. I'm really doing

this whole time as fun as I'm having, much fun as I'm having. I'm doing everything I can to suppress every single tick that's visible from the top of my head to about right here. You know, And that's like how we as people with Tourette's pretty much spend our days. And some people don't even have the privilege of getting to suppress them at all in any way. Right. And the not understanding of that is really frustrating as a person with Tourette's. I bet. Thank you for, thank you for educating me and us, for real.

Because it is, it's like just yet another example of what you do so generously. Yeah. You're a really generous person, Billy. You really like share. Thank you. You share what you know, what you're feeling or what you're going through. You share it with us. Like, we're very lucky that we get to hear things from you and hear.

And I'm really happy you did this. I'm such a fan of yours and I am so beyond excited to be in this room with you and do this podcast. I love you so much. Thank you for having me. Don't beware, but I need to get your cell phone number. Let's go. Thank you, Billy, for coming. Oh, my God.

Love you. I love you so much. Thank you so much. be here. Thank you, good hang. Thank you, Billy Eilish. What an amazing person and what a great conversation. Love talking to you. And for this polar plunge, look, it took everything I had not to sing Billy's songs back to her. I know that can make things awkward. But I just want to remind everybody of the perfect lyrics that are in Billy's songs, specifically happier than ever, okay?

because I just want to remind Okay. I don't relate to you. I don't relate to you, no. Because I'd never treat me this shitty. You made me hate this city and I don't talk shit about you on the internet. Never told anyone anything bad

because that shit's embarrassing. You are my everything. And all that you did was make me fucking sad. So don't waste the time I don't have. And don't try to make me feel bad. Oh, okay. Okay, this is the end of the... We got to go.

Genius. Thanks for listening, everybody. Billy, you're a genius. Okay, bye. You've been listening to Good Hang. The executive producers for this show are Bill Simmons, Jenna Weiss-Berman, and me, Amy Poehler. The show is produced by The Ringer and Paper Kite.

For The Ringer, production by Jack Wilson, Katzphelaine, Kaya McNeris. For Paper Kite, production by Sam Green, Joel Lovell, and Jenna Weiss Berman. Original music by Amy Miles.