Good Hang with Amy Poehler - Judge Judy Sheindlin

Episode Date: September 2, 2025

Judge Judy Sheindlin wants you to pick up after your dog. Amy hangs with the honorable judge and talks about how being herself comes easily, keeping baby Judge Judy out of AI’s hands, and knowing your worth. Host: Amy Poehler Guest: Eileen Roman and Judge Judy Sheindlin Executive Producers: Bill Simmons, Amy Poehler, and Jenna Weiss-Berman For Paper Kite Productions: Executive producer Jenna Weiss-Berman, coordinator Sam Green, and supervising producer Joel Lovell For The Ringer: Supervising producers Juliet Litman, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin; video producers Jack Wilson, Belle Roman, and Aleya Zenieris; lighting director Caroline Jannace, audio producer Kaya McMullen; video editor Drew van Steenbergen; and booker Kat Spillane Original Music: Amy Miles The 2025 Tiguan redesigns expectations. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello everyone. Welcome to another episode of Good Hang. I am starstruck today. Very excited to have our guest, Judge Judy Shyneland, who you can catch right now on Prime Video's new show, Justice on Trial, which is a terrific new show where she takes on and breaks down a lot of famous cases. But we have Judy on today, and we're going to talk to her about a lot of things. We talk to her about the importance of family. We talk about knowing your worth. We talk about how she feels about liars and newsflash, she doesn't like them. Second newsflash, she also wears a really cute hat. Judy is here. She's here in the studio and it's a real good one. So I'm really glad you're joining us. And as always, we'd like to start our episodes by talking to someone who knows our guest, who is a fan of our guest.

And we actually have our first super fan interview today. we are talking to Eileen Roman. Eileen is the mom of Belle Roman, our video producer who's here in the studio today. And Eileen is a huge fan of Judy and her work on Judge Judy and her other shows. And Eileen is going to talk to us about why Judy is so important to so many, why so many people trust her and why her show was the number one show for a million years. So, Eileen is calling in. She's a Boston gal. And she has the same name as my mom.

So, Eileen, are you there? Woo-hoo. This message is brought to you by Apple Card. Each Apple product, like the iPhone, is thoughtfully designed by skilled designers. The titanium Apple Card is no different. It's laser-etched, has no numbers, and earns you daily cash on everything you buy, including 3% back on everything at Apple. Apply for Apple card on your iPhone in minutes.

Subject to credit approval, Apple Card is issued by Goldman Sachs Bank, USA, Salt Lake City Branch, terms and more at applecard.com. Get up. What do you say? All I ever wanted was a really good hang. Thank you for having me. Oh, my God. It's so great to hear that Boston accent. I try to tone it down, but it's really not easy.

No, I mean, we'll never get rid of it. And why should we, Eileen? Exactly. I'm proud of it. I think it's really great that we're talking to somebody who watches Judy Shynelin and has watched her. Sounds like as much as I have because I think we're both super fans. Yeah, I am a super fan. Okay. Tell me when you first encountered our guest, Judy. I mean, in the beginning, in the beginning.

There was nobody like her on TV. And she was just real. Mm-hmm. And the stories can be the same, but the, outcome was never the same, you know. And I just loved her, no nonsense, straight talking, hardworking woman. You know, that's why I have so much respect for her because I know it probably wasn't an easy journey. Now, are you, or are you, were you a working mom? I chose to be a stay-at-home mom. But I took that job really seriously and I gave it 100%. I really did.

And that's what my mindset, because I always worked my whole life since I was 12 years old. You know, I have paper route, working in a restaurant, everything. I worked at Brigham's. I worked at Jerry Jingle. I worked at all kinds of places. I love Brigham. Yeah, Brigham. Oh, my God.

Best ice cream ever. So you remind me a little bit of my mom. My mom was a teacher. And then, you know, back then, if you were pregnant, you had to quit. They were like, so sorry, your job is over. And you were like, of course, I'm so sorry, I'm pregnant. And she had to stop. She stopped teaching.

She raised us. She was at home for, you know, X amount of years and I went back to work after. And you, like a lot of women, your age, were at home with a baby and looking to figure out what to watch on daytime TV. What do you think was so great about those beginning times when you were watching Judy as Judge Judy on TV? I learned a lot from her. I learned, like, how to stand up for myself. I knew, I learned about the law. things I didn't realize

like funny things like if you get engaged and you break off the engagement you gotta give that ring back you know you gotta give it back you gotta give it back you know and she

and you know I didn't know that I mean that's silly I know but it was just things like that and the other thing that I learned from her was I don't know to be honest like she just wanted people to be honest and she can you know

any case she ever had she just always she could read people. I learned, I just learned so much from her. I learned like, you know, don't give someone money if you don't want to, if you think you're not going to get it back, you're not going to get it back. There's a chance you won't. So I learned that from her too. Like, you know, she, people loaning money to their friends or, you know, relatives, you know, that didn't always come back to them and she would teach them like, you got to get it in writing, you know, things like that. I learned so much. I learned, uh, she just talked to like young people.

like young parents a lot, you know, how to raise their children, you know, think of education. I just, you know, things like that is what I learned. I know what you mean. She kind of broke social protocol all the time and reminded us, especially us women, that we should just say it clearly and plainly and move on. Don't get taken advantage of. Like she, you know, don't be smart. She would always say like, be smart.

You know, they didn't keep me here because I'm beautiful. Like, well, I know all of them's felt, you know. Okay. Me too. Me too. Like, you know, beauty fades, but dumbs forever is a great, Judy. If you eat the steak, you got to buy it. You know, like things like that, right? Yeah, and you're right. You're tapping into something that is deeper. There's something about watching her that felt calming. She has a rough exterior, but I really think deep down she's really soft. And I think that showed at the end of the cases a lot of times she would say,

something really kind or like be careful or take care of yourself or don't get taken advantage you know and sometimes there were women there that were taken advantage of and she would just you know tell him to be bright and smart and you have your whole life ahead of you that's how I judged her I just thought she was just wonderful okay so I have the pleasure of having judy in the studio today and and by the way and have the pleasure of working with your wonderful daughter. Thank you. I'm so thrilled. I'm so proud of my daughter. This is a dream come true for her. Let's talk about how great she is for a second. She's covering her face right now. But tell us about why Belle is so great. Well, Belle, she's hardworking. She's kind. She has

empathy for people. And she's really enthusiastic about what she does. She loves what she does. And it's so great to see your daughters achieve a dream that they've always wanted. And she did it on her own. And I'm really proud of her for that. And I think my husband and I instilled a really great work ethic in them. And I really believe that. And I think that helped her journey to where she is right now. Oh, that's so nice.

I want you to know she's crying in the studio right now. I'm so proud of her. you have no idea. And to have a work with you, it's just amazing. And I'm really impressed with, you know, you're also one of my heroes because I see, you don't see, you, I love to see women in places where they guide and help other women through their work or their personal life. And I feel like that's what you do. So I'm really, thank you very much, Eileen. I really appreciate that. Okay, so we're going to ask Judy a question and we're going to, and I need some help and some thoughts. What do you want me to ask her today? Well, I think one of the reasons why I love

Judge Judy so much is that she can really read people. She can really tell if you're telling the truth, if they're hiding a secret. I really feel like she can read people. And I want to know, did she always have that instinct in her? Is that? Or did that something that developed, like as time went on and she became you know she had more cases in front of her but I really think that is her most one of her most important attributes is that she can read people

you know she can tell what she can read people and yeah you can't fool you can't fool Judge Judy believe me I know I'm worried because I mean we're about to do it in me I mean what if she just in the middle of it goes like I don't believe you no no no no I don't know no I don't No, no, no. She knows. She knows everything. Fabar. It's going to be hard for me to not do a Judge Judy impersonation to Judy Shyneland, who, by the way, it's going to be hard not to call Judy Judge Judy.

You kind of look like her today with your black robe on, you know? Thank you for saying that. Subconsciously, I try sometimes to think about some, you know, slight subconscious ways as a nod to my guest. And I was like, I'm going to wear this. You did it. It's going to be an honor to have. speak with her. It is an honor. It's an honor. All right. Thank you so much, I mean. Thank you so much, Amy. I really appreciate it. And have a great day. And I can't wait to hear this episode. I'm so excited. Thanks so much. This episode is brought to you by Volkswagen. Here's the thing. You don't need a yacht, double barrel last name, or a skincare fridge to feel fancy. You just need the

2025 Volkswagen Tiguan. It offers luxury that's actually within reach. I'm talking impressive interiors with real wood accents and massaging front seats because your back deserves the good life too. Visit your local VW dealer or VW.com to learn more about the 2025 Volkswagen Tegu. I love your style. I don't think people get to see you in your actual clothes. You know, people only see you in your, and when you're working. That's helpful. So you can walk around almost anonymously, until you speak. Yeah. It's interesting speaking.

By the way, have you seen, are we on now? Yeah, we're on. Yeah. Have you seen those baby Judge Judy things? Yeah, the AI. Like, I'm obsessed. Is that frightening? That is so frightening.

You know, you are all over TikTok in a way, I mean, everywhere. But your sound, your clips, you're all. audio clips are everywhere online. But is that fair? Good question. No, it's a good question. Is it fair? Because they can really have you say anything.

They can have you comment about anything. I mean, I've seen some very reputable journalists talking about penile dysfunction and clearly all AI generated. But I would say the young people are very aware of AI. They are very sharp to see it and sense it. Like they know what is AI and what isn't. Like their eye is now trained. But, you know, you still have an older population.

I know. We have to be considered. Well, I know. They're going to get the older population. That's what they're going to, who they're going to trick. Youth, they're going to get the older population. So you're right. So we are doomed.

So Judge Judy is here. No. Clearly not. Judy Shyneland is here. We are so happy to have. you here today. And you're right. What I love about you is exactly these kind of conversations, which is deep end conversations right away. Complex, deep end conversations. You have them in life. I'm lucky enough to have had a few with you already as you're a new friend and also in your work.

And what I always appreciate about you is you are not afraid to discuss complicated things and also to admit things are complicated. Yeah, you have to worry about it a little more when you get old because you get opinionated. If you notice that about old people, they get very opinionated. You know, you like to think as you age, you get to know people and sort of develop a tolerance, which I did for a period of time. That's over. That period of my life is over.

I am so intolerant of anything that interferes with my everyday, happiness. Okay. And I said, what am I going to discuss with Amy today? Look at duty already taking over this interview. So let's talk about quetching. Okay, good. Let's talk about it. I love, you know, quetching is a great thing. Fantastic word, too, great Yiddish word. Yes. You know, you live part in the city, part in the country, you're a country mouse and a city mouse. But in the city, and even in the country, you're supposed to pick up after your dog. Don't even get me started. And it's, it's, I mean, I actually walk my dog and I watch people.

And I can sort of tell when they're, when they're pretending to look for a bag. Oh, I had one, but I forgot. Right. Yes. I have a dog outside in the world, but I don't have a bag with me. Right. So I said, what should be the punishment for somebody who doesn't pick up after their dog? That's a great question. And I came up with, you know, death is probably a little too, a little too exaggerated. But let's take this example.

Let's say you've been dating your fiancé, your boyfriend, since high school, and you save up enough money to have a lovely wedding and do a photography piece in Central Park with your gown. Oh, dear. and the photographer is there and you're in your gown that you've saved for for five years. And you sit down on the grass because you're going to take this wonderful photograph with your gowns spread out and somebody hasn't picked up after their dog. Now, is the punishment the same? I mean, the crime is the same. Yeah.

But the effect on the victim is totally different. If you're a... Your Honor, if I may. Yes. I think you are, if you're in a... If you're in a public place anywhere in New York, you can't sit down. The minute you sit down, you've given up all rights. Well, so you think that there is joint culpability.

that's that's how to say maybe because and and why why I like this thought experiment is you are a responsible dog owner so you care about your I know you love your doggies and I think that it speaks to the deeper thing that you talk about all the time which is what are the consequences of actions I love what you say which is there are reasons for behavior but not excuses for behavior. That's true. And behavior, there's many reasons to behave a certain way, and that behavior has consequences. And I think it speaks to the larger thing. We're like, where are all the consequences anymore? There's no consequences for anything anymore. And this is what older people say and feel, but it feels that way right now in the world. Yes. And that has

that has serious implications, that has serious political implications, and it has serious economic implications. I'll tell you a cute story about consequences. I don't think I've told you this story before. I had a case, one of my, you know, little cases on television, and it was a cart, a shopping cart from the Piggly Wiggly in Florida. I don't know. You know, somebody took their groceries, they filled their trunk with their groceries, and they left the cart. Gust of wind comes along, and the cart goes into the next car and dents the car. Okay. The owner of the car sees this scenario unfolding and sues the person who left the cart.

Ooh. Interesting. The defense was, it was an act of God. I didn't create the wind. I put the cart down. The cart. stable. A gust of wind came, blew the cart. Anyway, I found for the person whose car was damaged, my reasoning was, but for your negligence and not taking that extra moment to put the cart in the assigned position for carts, you know, where they are. Yeah. The wind would not have been able to pick up and hit and damage the car. Okay. So now we're fast forwarding about two or three months. I'm in Florida, where I live in the wintertime, and shopping at Publix.

Fantastic. I'd love to see that. And it's a big parking lot. I load my car up with the groceries that I've gotten. And I noticed that I parked pretty far away from the appointed cart patrol. And I looked around. And there were three women. and standing in front of the store looking at me waiting for you to return the car. Waiting for me having seen that episode waiting to

see what I was going to do. So of course, I said I took the cart and I put it back where you're supposed to. I assumed you would have returned the cart no matter what. I probably would have but it was the reaction of the women. They said, all right, let's see if this gal

follows what she preaches. Follows what she preaches. And it's a simple thing. And now I never go shopping unless I park my car right next to the place where you deposit your car. But you get that. You must get that a lot where people are turning to you to see if you're going to follow the rules. Yes. Yes.

Because your life is a, and people know you as a person who talks about the importance of these rules. And then as a person in everyday life, like we are human beings. try as best we can to follow the rules. Do you get that a lot? Do you get people projecting that on you? I don't know whether I do or not, but, and I know this is going to sound a little hokey to you. Life has been very good to me. And I like to do the right thing. If you do the right thing most of the time or all of the time, it doesn't guarantee that at the end of the day, all good things will happen to you. But it's been my experience that if you don't do the right thing, eventually, not immediately, but eventually, that's going to come back.

There's so many things I want to get into because I'm curious as to where, you know, this strong feeling about there being a system to follow and the importance of law and order and also how you found yourself like motivating yourself and your own path in life, started very young, I assume, in your own family. What was New York in the 50s like in Brooklyn? And what was the feeling in your family with your siblings and your parents about what was the way to operate? Always the right thing.

My father was a dentist. My mother ran his dental office. His dental office was in the house. So we were all very close. And there was never a question of trying to get over on the system. Mm-hmm. It was always, you work, you work, you were in a living, you take care of your family, you save up, you go to Grosingers for a weekend or the Concord. Wait, what was Grossingers?

Grossingers was a resort, like the Concord Hotel. Like dirty dancing? Exactly, but bigger. Okay. But bigger. And that's where Jewish people went for the weekend. There was, everybody was gluttonous. There was much too much food.

And, you know, you took dancing lessons. Like you didn't, I hope that the people who watch your podcast know what dirty dancing is. I hope they do, too. I think they do. I think dirty dancing is still. But what were you like as a young, what was young Judy like? Like, what was your, what was your, I followed, I followed, I pretty much followed the rules. And when the couple of times that I didn't, and I incurred the disappointment wrath of my father who never hit me.

Yeah. But I never wanted to disappoint him. I said, you know what? It wasn't worth it. Marvin wasn't worth it. Sneaking away with Marvin. Sneaking away with Marvin wasn't worth it. It never is.

No. But you've spoken about your relationship with your dad. It was a very important one for you. Do you think it gave you confidence? Of course. I do think that women find their confidence from their fathers. They find loving, et cetera, from their mothers. I think.

I know some women who would argue. with that. But the women I know who feel terrific about themselves had wonderful encouraging relationships with their dads. And you did? And I did. And how did he used to encourage you? And what did it look like? What did it look like? If I had a pimple on my forehead, he said, oh my God, that is so gorgeous. Everyone should have one. Not quite as big as yours, but everyone should have one. And he recognized my limitations. I think my intellectual limitations. I'm not an academic. And believe it or not, Amy, I'm not intellectually curious. Interesting. I'm not. If something is, it is. I don't have to know why it is. I know it just is. It makes

my life much less complicated. And he understood that. Was he like that? No, he was more of an academic And he filled people's teeth But he wrote poetry And he carved things in wood and soap He loved the ballet in the theater He He was more of a renaissance person

I'm a meat and potatoes girl But you're so good at figuring out People So where did you get your people skills That I don't know That I don't know That, I think, is probably genetic, just like music play, just like Mozart, Mozart or Rembrandt, I think you have a particular skill. I think everybody has a particular skill.

Just getting back to little or younger Judy, you decide, okay, I have this part of me that likes, that kind of sees the world this way. I want to be, I want to go to law school. What year did you graduate law school? I graduated, I think, in 1964 from law school. I did college in, I know, five and a half years, went summers and got out of law school. And then I had a job that I hated. Yeah, corporate lawyer? I worked for L'Oreal of Paris.

They were hiring two lawyers, a man and a woman. And the man, they put in corporate, the corporate effect. And me, they gave a sheet. of drug products that it were, their L'Oreal products, suffrage and all different kinds of hair tints. And they gave me the job of calling the drug stores and getting orders from them. He was doing law work. Wow. And I was doing sales, basically. And I was doing sales secretarial work. Yeah. So I did what you did then. You got pregnant. That was the only way to quit a job. And then I was home for a while with my kids for a bit.

And I started watching soap operas. Now, I don't remember. But I said, life has to be more than this for me. So I was fortunate to go to an event from a lawyer's event. And I met a law student who was a man who was a law student with me. and he said, I'm looking for somebody in the family court. I work at Corporation Counsel. In the family court, you're interested in a job.

And I remember going home and telling my family, I said, Mommy's going to work and who's going to take care of us? And I said, a very nice lady. And they said, who is it? I said, I don't know yet. But she'll be a very nice lady. You're going to be very happy. But, you know, I love that story because, I mean,

I think on behalf of what. working women everywhere, and women that work in the home, which is also its own job, that you always were an example of a woman who got great self-esteem from their work and who we got to see work in real time. I mean, that is what watching you feels like. It feels like a very successful woman at work. You can, I mean, you have two boys. You love them.

They love you. And we have this host of a family now. Yeah, you have a blended family. We have a blended family. And my second great grandchild, who's cute as a bug's ear, I'm sure some would have preferred that I'd be home to make them a hot lunch and send it off to school like everybody else's parent, moms did in those years. Yeah, you were very unique in that way.

You know, there weren't a lot of full-time. working moms, but I can tell you now, they are reaping the benefit of my being a full-time working person. Yeah. How did you deal with being one of a few during that time? Like, where did you, where did you, did you struggle at all with feeling? No, I didn't struggle at all. Yeah. I just felt as if it was right for me. And, you know, I think that if you're happy at home, being a full-time homemaker and parent, and they're needed. You know, you need somebody to take kids on field trips and to be there for the bake sale and for a really active part of the PTA.

That's what makes things go around. If that's satisfying for you, that's great. But I always believe that a woman has to have a way of earning a living. Why? Why? Because if a woman, different from a man, if a woman doesn't have a way of supporting herself, she is in a position of being controlled, that doesn't happen all the time. And it doesn't always happen in a fashion that's aggressive. Right. But that's a mentality.

and so in the back of your mind you should always have a way of saying I don't like this this is not making me happy this is not making me fulfilled I would like to change but I can't because I have no I don't have a plan

I don't have an exit plan and that's very sad for a woman A man always has an exit plan. I mean, he could live out of, most men can live out of a shoe. You know, women, you know, they really can. But I think, but you were ahead of your time in that thinking. That was, you were, I mean, you were unique in that way because you were coming up during a time when that wasn't always the way women,

certainly weren't encouraged to be that way, but also couldn't find it in themselves. No, they were supposed to be nurses or teachers. Yes. My first husband thought that that was the only thing women did. My mom talks about that, that her father sat her down and said, do you want to be a nurse or a teacher? Yeah. And he was a love, he was a lovely man and he loved her.

And he loved her very, very much and believed her to be smart and all of those things, but just assumed like which one, that's your, that's your choice. Right. Yeah. And so what, so did you get any pushback at the time from other people? Like, were you, did you feel supported when you were making these kind of choices in your life? Like with... I felt always

supported. Yeah. I felt always supported. Yeah. Yeah. And then you find yourself in family court and that is kind of

and you've spoken about this but it's so interesting. Like I love how you speak about this which is basically your life keeps unfolding. And we don't get to know you, Judy, until you're in your 50s, late 40s maybe?

I started my program when I was 52. Yeah. And you speak very often and really eloquently about the idea that you kind of never know what is around the corner and you never know like how your life is going to unfold. And you just take this dramatic turn in your life from being in family court to being on TV. When you were first on TV, did you have to kind of learn how to be yourself quote unquote on TV? It was easy. No, it was easy. Yeah. Because I didn't have to

make up a person. That's the person. Right. And if that's the person that they said, we want this person on TV, why would I want to modify that or change it? And so it was easy for me. But being yourself isn't always, it's easy for you, but it isn't always easy for people. That's unfortunate for them. It was very easy for me. And, and you know, the public can tell, Amy. Yeah. Public can tell when you're a phony. public can tell whether you believe what you're talking about you know I often say

and you know I say if you tell the truth you don't have to have a good memory I stole that from somebody but whoever I stole it from is dead so it's now become mine it's now become mine so I find if you tell the truth it makes your life so much easier

how can you tell when someone's lying Well, first of all, if it doesn't make sense, it's usually not true. If the story doesn't make sense to you when you're a relatively normal human being, it's usually not true. But what I love so much about watching you work is in your show and shows, you have a, you know, you're not, you can have a tolerance for people's unfortunate choices and mistakes. and learning moments, but you have such a low tolerance from being lied to. Like, it's like, if someone lies to you, they're done. Well, you can only lie to me once, and then everything else you say becomes suspect. Exactly.

Right? Did you have insurance on the car? Yes. Can I see the card? The dog ate it. My phone fell in the toilet. And I've seen you do something which I find very satisfying to watch and calming to watch. is where you'll give them another chance in that moment.

I see sometimes you say, I'm going to ask you again. Like you just say, maybe you just lied out of quick, sometimes reflex. People are just so stressed. You're being kind. You're a much kind of person than I am. Actually, you are. You are.

I know you are. But you know what? But the reason why I say it, Judy, is because I don't like to be stressed when I watch shows. I don't like to watch people argue. and I don't like to watch people be made fun of. Like, it's not my thing. And I loved watching your shows. So I didn't feel like you were there to humiliate

or to let people humiliate each other. There was like a controlled environment that you were in charge of and you were paying attention. And there were times where I felt like there were gestures of grace where you would say, I'm going to let you answer that again. One more time. That's nice of you.

I'm glad. I'm glad you're a fan. Do you disagree? I know. Do I disagree? No. I think that sometimes people do. Their initial gut reaction is to be self-protective.

Yes. People lie because they're nervous. They're protecting a position. Yes. And then, you know, if I catch you're by the eye, I'm going to say, you know what? you have parents you think that parents want to hear that

they're going to watch and they're going to tell friends to watch this episode they're going you're having friends who are watching you sure you want to go there

because I have the capacity or at least I have the capacity to make you look like an idiot you want me to do that it'll be my pleasure I'm good at it that's what they pay me for

I would much rather you tell me truth. Yes. But if you don't, I can, I can handle it. You can handle it. I mean, you can handle it. I mean, I imagine being somebody in your life who is, like, do you find that what part of you in your personal life is softer than what we see on TV? Everything. So what part of you is the softy part that people don't, you know, that people don't get to see? With my dog. When my dog snuzzles up next to me, if I'm not feeling well, and, you know, they can sense that.

She usually sleeps on the foot of the bed if she knows that I'm not feeling well. She comes over and checks on me at night, and I love to smell her. She smells so delicious. And nothing but giving, you know. If you're an animal lover, then you know that it's pure, pure love that they have for you if they're a good dog. Yeah. So I'm soft with her. I find you to be very warm.

I like to think so. So what would people describe is the warm parts of you that people don't get to see? Sometimes you meet a person who has sort of a kindred spirit. as you get as you age you sort of peel that back and you sort of eliminate people from your life but every once in a while you meet somebody new and that's what happened when we met I you know we don't see each other all the time but I know we have a fondness for each other yes and that's a nice and that's a lovely thing it's something that becomes more lovely but when you're older because, you know, you used to have lots of people to meet.

And I came downtown today from Greenwich, Connecticut, where I live. You don't do a lot of these, Judy. And I really appreciate it. I only did one, and that's this one. So, and don't call. Yeah, nobody else. Judy's not on some tour right now. Don't think she's going to do a bunch of these.

She's not coming out of. I just came, I really just came to see you for an hour. Okay. Let's talk about us meeting because I feel like I kind of manifested it in my own way and kind of forced us to be friends. So thank you for going along with it. But it's true. I mean, I remember meeting for the very first time. We were on a talk show together. I think it was Kelly Rippa and whoever was hosting with her at the time. I don't remember. And then I brought in my book that I loved your books. I asked you to sign them. We had a quick talk. I thought that's it. That's, I won't bother Judy anymore with that. Then I heard that you were going to be given the like a lifetime achievement award for the daytime Emmys. I called up your people and said, can I give it to Judy if she doesn't have someone giving it to her yet? And you very nicely said yes. It was my pleasure to write that speech. It was the easiest thing I had written. So then I got to give you the speech. We got to hang out. I had a very exciting moment where you

handed me something on stage. Judy came up and gave me something in the palm of her hand. And I was like, and it was this. You gave me this necklace, which I wear all the time. It's a very good luck charm for me. And then we started to create a friendship together. We started to like, let's have lunch and let's actually try to be friends. And what I love about it, number one, is that I felt like it was, I mean, I'm the most, you were by far my most, I've been the most nervous and most starstruck to interview you of everyone that I've interviewed. You are by far the most famous person that I've had in my mind on the show. And when you said yes, I was, we jumped for joy. Because I know you don't do things you don't want to do. Let's just put it that way.

Not anymore. I don't know if you ever have, Judy. I don't know if you've ever really. Well, have you done a satellite media tour? Okay. You're right. You're right. You've had to do a few things. Yeah. But you just, it's what I, what calms me about you is I know you're not, you're going to have no problem saying no to things you don't want to do. And so it really meant a lot that you came. And it means a lot that you're, and it also you represent what I think is like your, your ethos, which is it's kind of like never too late to figure out what you want to do. And it's never too late to make new friends. How are friendships important to you? How did they sustain you? they add a texture. You know, we have a big family, and I could be busy with the big family all the time. And they're all different.

The kids and their mates and grandchildren, they love different. But bringing in a new friend into your life, especially someone younger, if you were. is a whole new perspective, gives you a different texture for things, but for coming in to do this today. I can't even tell you where I would be or what I would be doing. But this was very good for me. I didn't know it when I said, you know, I had heard you say someplace that you would like to have me as a guest. And I was so touched by the fact that you took time and actually,

made a call to present me with something that is a very, a very sweet moment for me with the Emmys. I said, this is a person who's really a mensch, and she's not a phony. When some people tell me about, you know, I watched your show, I grew up with you, I sat with my grandma. Could you please sign a picture? I want to put it in her casket because she loved you.

All true. All true. I just got one from Germany, a letter from Germany, that this man's best friend passed away and he was cremated and he wants to be able to put a note from me with his friend's ashes. Could I please say something personal to Fred that you appreciate it being a friend? You can get somebody else to write that. But I knew that you had a. different kind of understanding of watching the courtroom and watching me in the courtroom.

So I knew you got it. And you're so terribly talented. And it's just such a shame your plate is so full because otherwise there are so many things that we could do together. Well, I still want to work together, Judy. It would be fantastic to work together with you. I mean, we're both used to being running the show, right? We both are like, we are like, we like to be. No, you're a writer. You're the writer. You see, I don't have that talent. Well, I would argue that you do have that talent.

You're doing it and... I don't know. Let me argue. I don't. I don't. Hold on because you're writing in real time on that show. You are, that is, you are, that is, you are, that is, you are, that is, there, you do not have lines on that show. No.

But. And you've written, how many books you're a writer. When are you going to call yourself a writer? That's, there's a creative. that you have, that you have to know your limitations that I don't have. So if I were to say to you, Amy, what I want to do for my next adventure that I would like you to play with me at doing, I want to steal baby Judge Judy back from AI. We're all, now I know why we started talking about it in the beginning.

Now I get it. I get it now. And I want to take baby, I want to take baby, Judge Day. And I haven't shut them down. I haven't even, I said, I want to get more people involved with this character. And then I want to take this character and create a South Parky. Yeah. so that I can

Judy Kvetch through the baby speaking through baby Judge Judy would be a whole lot of fun but you need the right writer That's right

So and I know Judy's still pitching me on this I'm still pitching her I love it I love it I'm still pitching her I love it because first of all I'm very flattered and two what

you what what I think I hear you saying is that and what I love about all the stuff that you do is you keep trying to figure out like in what way what is my next adventure I mean you're always looking for that you're always looking for like and you have to take your next adventure with your station in life now my next adventure is not being a centerfold I know that you have but this is perfect let's talk about your bod Judy it's just it's not as wonderful as I've seen you in a t-shirt you look

incredible. That was 10 years ago. No, just a few years ago. Well, a few. Life gets, life catches up with you. Yes. Life catches up with you. So what, if you're smart, I was at a I was at a Forbes

conference years ago talking about women and I want, and they said if you had one piece of advice to give a woman, you know, and these were all business women, professional women, what would that one piece of advice be, and I thought for a moment, and I said, wear sleeveless as long as you

can. That's my best advice. And then you have to know when to stop wearing sleeveless. Of course. You got it. But you weight train. You? I did, but I can't wear sleeveless. I don't care how much your weight train. Life catches up with you. That's why animation is so perfect. Because you can still have a voice. That's right. You still have a voice. You still can create the message. You're creating it through a fun character. And you can show up sleeveless.

But you are such a good, but to me, you're an incredible example of someone in their 80s who are, you know, there is, I mean, when I was growing up, being in your 80s was, you know. Crypt-like. Yeah. You barely knew anyone in their 80s. It was a miracle to live in your 80s. And now we have people running the country who are in their radies. And it's like, and I mean, I was lucky enough to be invited to your 80th birthday, which was Western casual, an incredible dance party.

You love to dance. You and Jerry were on the dance floor. We were on the dance floor. We were on the dance floor. Thank you for remembering. Jerry's also keeping it tight. Jerry's also keeping it really tight. I guess.

You guys are in great. And I don't even just mean, I mean, it's just an energy for life. basically. And I feel like I know people like myself are looking ahead to women in their 60s, 70s and 80s to see like, how are you doing? Because you're right. Life does catch up with you. But you don't need to decide to get caught up in what is like the crazy amount of pressure and ageism in this, in this, you know, country and how we want older people to kind of stop talking and disappear and retire. We want them to all kind of. like get quiet and lie down and go away. I mean, you're certainly not doing that. The trick is as you get older, you have to stay relevant. If you are interesting, people will want to gravitate to you. Or old people will want to gravitate to you. And you have to be able to say to old people who want to gravitate to you, you can't pull me down. You want to get out there and cha-cha with me. Great. But I'm not.

sitting home with you and watching the filter in the pool, if all else fails, I can always get a job with a law firm because I had a fallback. You weren't stuck. Yeah. I mean, that's what you felt, that's what it felt like watching your show is you didn't have a vibe of like, I don't know how else, I don't know how else to say it. It wasn't a thirsty vibe, as the kids say. It was like, I'm going to do the job I usually do. I'm going to try to do it over here. If you like it, great. If you don't like it, find my name. So watch. And that is also an incredible negotiation technique. And look, I don't want to talk to you about we all know how incredibly successful your show was and how incredibly successful you were on it. But I think

that the way you talk about negotiation and the way you negotiated is interesting, especially for women? You have to know your worth. You have to know your worth. If, and women often have a problem fully appreciating their worth. I didn't at the beginning, but I quickly, I was a fast read on this one. And I quickly understood that I could go anywhere. But as hard as you try, you haven't been able to find anybody to do this. And you've put on a lot of people. Yeah. You've tried a lot of alternatives that haven't been as successful. So if you want to continue making what you make, I'm going to teach you how to be a partner. rather than an employer.

Good language. I'm going to teach you how to be a partner. And can you tell everyone how you would negotiate? Well, every few years, I would sit down with the president of our company at the grill on the alley. And we all knew what was, we were there to talk about renewal. And I would have an envelope. And in the envelope would be two or three conditions, three years or four years. and this is my salary, but, you know, nothing lengthy. And I would take out the envelope and pass it over to whoever the president was,

who kept getting changed. I was still the same person. I recognize that. The face at the other side changed, but this face was the same. And I would slip in the envelope, and I would say, don't open it until you get home. Let's have dinner first. And then tomorrow you'll tell me, yeah, or nay. And the final year, the president of the then company was adorable.

I won't name him. And when I took out my envelope, he said, Judy, I have an envelope. And when I handed him, he went to hand me mine. I said, I'm not taking your envelope. Because if I take your envelope, it's a negotiation. And this isn't a negotiation. And he laughed. He actually laughed.

I said, but it was true. If I took it and looked at it and opened it. Of course. Because he, well, he did say maybe it's more than what's in yours. I said, then I'm a loser. Then I'm a loser. But this will satisfy me. Yes.

This will satisfy me. They put it away. We had a great dinner and we signed on for a few years. Oh, it's so baller. And also, I mean, it goes to exactly what you talk about, that like, when you're trying to figure out how to negotiate, It's like kind of like less is more. Figure out your worth, state it, and then the ball is in someone else's court. Yes, but you have to make yourself indispensable.

Yeah. That's the key. And you don't have to be a television personality to make yourself indispensable. I know doctors who close their practices five years early because their assistant or their secretary who runs the office says, you know what, I'm retiring. And they say, well, you can't retire. I'm not ready to retire. I can't run this place without you.

Well, you want me to stay. I don't want to work on Friday. I want three weeks of vacation in the summer. And this is my new salary. Well, you've made yourself indispensable. It doesn't matter what you are. And you have to be aware of that. How you fit in.

Can somebody else that they find do what you do? And you can't also, you know, you can't have unreasonable expectations. I mean, you can't want to own the company. Right. Well, you could want to own the company, but who would want to own that company? Have you bought the company? Who would want?

I don't consider myself an artist, so it's easy for me to get down and dirty. Yeah. Interesting. And I don't have an agent, and I don't have a manager. I mean, incredible. Incredible. I mean, the fact that you negotiated yourself in person. Well, that's easy.

It's very, it's much harder to, for the company. who needs you to turn you down in person than it is to turn down some intermediary that is dealing for 50 people. And he said he's... And also, when it becomes less urgent for you. Well, that's what it felt like always. Again, that's why it was interesting to watch your show,

is it did not feel like, honestly, that you even had dreams about being on television. No. I didn't. Yeah. So watching, it was, and I wanted to ask you a question. So we do this thing where we ask somebody who is a friend of our guest who knows our guest or is a fan of our guest. We ask them a question that they should give to me to ask you. First of all, I tried to get your buddy Sam Jackson.

He's not a veil. He's on a boat. Oh, it's summertime. Sam would be on a boat. I don't know a lot of people know that you and Samuel L. Jackson. are great friends. We are great friends. Like really good friends. Can you just tell me how you guys met? We met through Sam's agent, Tony Howard.

Uh-huh. And the one thing Sam hates more than anything in the world is bullshit. Yeah. You both did that. And he's right out front. And everybody knows that. And I think that that's what made us friends. We get each other.

He has a wonderful wife, Latanya, wonderful and talented wife. And he does spend the summer on boat. Yeah, he's on a boat. So the question I got today was, so Bell, one of our video producers here, Bell, how old are you?

I'm 302. 32. So Bell... I have food in my refrigerator older than you are. So Bell is a big fan of you, like everyone here. and also Belle's mother, Eileen, who is also the same name as my mom, Shere, Eileen has watched you since the beginning.

And she felt very, I guess the way she would say is seen, heard and represented. And we talked about how your show gave both of us this like sense of like, almost like a grounding in a very like watery world, you know, you know, you watch. it and you're like two people or two two sides come there's some kind of judgment there's might be some way out of this mess that's just kind of how it always felt like it's not going to be perfect but we're going to try the best we can to figure it out in real time we're going to ask people to tell the truth and there's going to be somebody in charge that isn't going to let things go crazy somebody in charge who's a woman which is probably what iileen some but probably

I don't know your mom but I think that a lot of women I know from what people tell me a lot of women who felt that there weren't options for them because they didn't had not seen situations where women were in control not only of their own lives but a lot of other people's lives as well

that it made them feel good and perhaps gave him a little bit of a jolt you don't have to stay in that terrible situation you can but you can push yourself

you can do better don't bring that other bum home from the bar and give him your credit card and let him drain your bank account And look at them, there's nothing there. You know, look, I see, I would watch some wonderful women, wonderful, smart, professional, working women. And I'd look at the slub that they gave their car to and their own credit card that they paid for. And I would look at them and I would say, you must have something that I'm not seeing.

it made them feel good because somebody had taken advantage of them or they felt they felt that they had no power, that they were just going through the motions of life. And you were breaking social protocol. You were saying it out loud in real time. I was saying it out loud. You get flak. You know, when you have an opinion, and I have very strong opinions about everything, you get flak. Yeah.

I don't care. And I think we're almost at the end, but I'm going to tell you. I love that Judy's wrapping us up. I'm going to tell you one story. You said, you know, sometimes some people like and some people don't like. And when did you know that you were, when did you know that you were an entertainer? Yeah. Jerry and I was sitting in a bagel restaurant called Tal Bagel on First Avenue when we were living in the city.

And we would go there for coffee in the morning. And there were two women sitting not too far away. You know, you got your bagel, and you came down, you sat down at the table. And we overheard them, and they were talking about the show. And one of them said, oh, my God, I love her. I cannot wait for four o'clock. I love her. And the other one said, I can't stand her.

She is such a bitch. She is such a mean, spirited person. And I looked at Jerry, and I said to him, you know, I know I'm an entertainer. I don't care what they think as long as they watch. one hates you and when you look at the people who you know you look as I sometimes do at IMBD or whatever it is you see how your show is rated right you have five and it's a big yellow line and then you have a one people love you all the way to five people who hate you all the way to one and then there's two three four in the middle I have very few two

three four in the middle right I get fives and one that's it. You love or you hate her. As long as you watch. And they do. I don't, they watch. You can throw a shoe with the television. I don't care. As long as your Nielsen number then when I was connected to Niel is there. Now I ask your question. Well, this question is actually, it ties into what you're saying. Because, you know, Eileen was asking like, you have a strong sense of intuition about yourself and other people. people. And, you know, her question was, was it learned or was it natural? And I feel like we kind of talked about it. But what it speaks to is this bigger idea of like, you stay very, you track yourself really well. You know what you want. You have a strong sense of self. I do. Hey, I do. It came from father. It came from dad. And how do you cultivate it? How do you keep cultivating it in yourself? And how do you, and how do you help other people find it? Or do you? Everything is by example, Amy.

I don't think that you can, if somebody is sick, you can't tell them, feel better. I want you to feel better. Yeah. I want you to, you're not happy? Be happy. Rara, get happy. You can't do that for someone else. What you can do is set the table.

Is there anything you're not as certain about as you get older? I mean, I don't know the answer to that question, but I, I think younger people, and it may be good, they're more naval gazers than I am. I don't sit there and say, oh, my God, are you in or out or left or right? But I don't. I'm a what is what is, girl, because I probably could benefit from therapy. Never been? Never been.

And people, people will say, well, you for sure could benefit from therapy. I say, well, that's true. But I really don't want to know. Mm-hmm. I understand. I'm not that interested in why I feel the way I feel and why this hurts me and why this makes me happy or why this makes me sad. I just want to say, this makes me sad. And if I can excise it.

from my life. So the answer is I'm not that introspective. And as I said when I started this chat with you, I'm really not an academic. And I'm not inquisitive. I'm not intellectually inquisitive. If I like the pizza, I like the pizza. If I don't, I don't.

I don't want to know what you put in your pizza so that it would make it a better pizza. I don't care. I'll go from Joe's pizza to Anthony's pizza. to Anthony's pizza, where I know I like it and I try to change Joe. And the very last question, what is making you laugh? I know you love to laugh. You're a big lapper.

In these times, in these days, like, where do you go to let off steam? Is it old stuff? Is it new stuff? Do you listen to stuff? Where do you go to the laugh? I have very funny children. That's great. Many of them have over the top funny, funny sense of the world, funny sense of themselves.

And we see each other often. I keep the family close to wherever I am. And they're all wonderful and accomplished. They make me laugh. I don't find anything really. The people that made me laugh for old school people. Who were they? Don Rickles made me laugh.

Love John Rickles. There were moments when Henny Youngman made me laugh. Take my wife. Please. Did your kids, do they like tease and wrote? No, they view the world. They view the world with a light eye. And they're fun and funny.

Anyway, it's been fabulous. Okay. Judy's done. Judy's done. I love it. You're right. I've taken too much your time. Judy, thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. It means so much. I really appreciate you being here. Love you. Thank you. Wow. That was really incredible. It was really exciting to have Judy in the studio. And I really hope that you enjoyed it as much as I did. And, you know, for this polar plunge as we wrap up this episode, I just want to remind everybody to return their grocery carts into, at the very least, an empty space and if not the designated area. I know it's a thing, right? Like you get all your groceries in your car and you think I'm done and the idea of going back out and doing that. But it does make a difference. And I would implore you to try to even grab one that isn't yours. And then, you know, an angel gets its wings. Like you're going to, if you believe in karma, you're, I don't know,

that's a good thing to do. So just do it. Just do it. And picture. just like Judy did, you know, all these women staring at you and judging you. Picture people judging you. That can really motivate you to do good things. Bye! You've been listening to Good Hang. The executive producers for this show are Bill Simmons, Jenna Weiss-Burman, and me, Amy Poehler. The show is produced by The Ringer and Paper Kite.

For The Ringer, production by Jack Wilson, Katz-Belaine, Kaya McMallin, and Alea Zanaris. For Paper Kite, production by Sam Green, Joel Lovell, and Jen. Wies Berman. Original music by Amy Miles.