Good Hang with Amy Poehler - Ryan Coogler

Episode Date: January 13, 2026

Ryan Coogler knows that you need a hook. Amy hangs with the filmmaker to talk about his favorite movie theater snacks, playing football against Marshawn Lynch, and why twins are creepy. Host: Amy PoehlerGuests: Ludwig Göransson and Ryan CooglerExecutive producers: Bill Simmons, Amy Poehler, and Jenna Weiss-BermanFor Paper Kite Productions: Executive producer Jenna Weiss-Berman, coordinator Sam Green, and supervising producer Joel LovellFor The Ringer: Supervising producers Juliet Litman, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin; video producers Jack Wilson and Aleya Zenieris; audio producer Kaya McMullen; video editor Drew van Steenbergen; and booker Kat SpillaneOriginal Music: Amy Miles Shop the New Nespresso Vertuo Up Machine exclusively at Nespresso.com. Visible. Start the year with a new way to save. www.visible.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello everyone. Welcome to another episode of Good Hang. This is a, this is a good one. We were thrilled when this person wanted to talk to us. Ryan Coogler, the incredible director, sinners, Black Panther, Creed, Fruitville, Station, just so many things, all the good things. And we're going to talk about so many things today. We're going to talk about football. We're going to talk about Jurassic Park. We're going to talk about how vampires are sexier than zombies. And we are going to get in the minutia of the beautiful film sinners that is up for all the awards and should win all the awards. So I love this conversation with Ryan and can't wait for you to hear it. And we always start these episodes by speaking to somebody who knows our guest, who gives me a question to ask them and speaks well behind their back. And joining me today is Ludwig Jorensen. Ludwig is a, well, just the most preeminent composer has made music on all the films that you love

and makes, you know, is a record producer and just is so super talented. And they, he and Ryan have been working together forever. So we're going to join Ludwig and I'm going to try out a little bit of my Swedish. Hello? This episode of Good Hang is presented by Nespresso. For those who never compromise on their morning rituals, especially their coffee ritual, Nespressos' new Virtuo Up makes your first cup irresistible. With a three-second start, easy open lever and dedicated coffee creations mode button,

it's even easier to brew bold coffee over ice or milk. It's your coffee, your way, Nisproso. Shop now exclusively at nisproso.com and use code Amy to receive a set of Lumet coffee mugs when you spend $50 or more while supplies last. How How do you? I'm more good

How much Ah Bra, thank How Yeah How can you I know

I've got I've got a lot of Swedish But how are in connection with Sweden Yes

My brother lives in Stocksoon Okay So nice to meet you Thank you for doing this Where are we

talking to you from right now I'm in my studio in L. Los Angeles. Excellent. And are you working on something right now?

Yes. I'm working on, you know, new projects. New. Can you tell us what it is or a secret? No, no, I'm in the world of Chris Nolan right now. So, well, just, yeah, that's taking up my time. It's really fun. Well, we're talking to you, we're talking to Ryan Coogler today.

We're thrilled to talk to him. I'm a huge fan and I'm really excited. And one of the things I've been learning as I've been getting to know him is how dedicated he is to the people he works with and how he has really long relationships with the people that he works with. And you two met at USC at USC in, early 2008, I believe. What was your first impression of him? Do you remember meeting? Yeah, of course. I was, when I first moved to L.A., I moved, I lived in Culver City.

and everyone in America told me that you need to move, you need to get a car, right? You need to have a car. But I thought, all silly Americans, they don't get the idea of walking, right? So, but I quickly understood that, like, the bus just doesn't come, right? So I moved to USC to live close to campus.

I could walk from, and I ended up moving into, like, a fraternity house. That was only open for grad students. and it literally felt like I didn't know what fraternity was at the time but I literally felt like I moved into an American Pie movie Yeah

So one night we had a party Ryan came over And we ended up playing pool together And he had And I remember Ryan had these super long locks You know down to his back And kind of

You know Kind of muscular in a way Because he had just you know He had just come from football. He played football for Sac State for college. So he you know so that and

and we started talking playing pool and then I remember specifically talking about music and he had a lot of knowledge about we talked about Swedish artists. And that's kind of what we kind of started bonding over

music and then that translated into film and so we yeah we just we were just kind of college kids in the beginning started just hanging out at parties and talking about music and film. Was there a moment when you decided we're going to kind of work together forever? Like, you know, it's one thing to like each other's taste, but sometimes people work a certain

way that doesn't, you know, connect with the way you like to work. How do you two like to work together and why does it work? The first score I did was for a little feature, or the student film he had called Lox, and I played guitar on that, and he was like, he was, it was just so fun. because I remember his reaction when he first heard his music for his little short film. And he was like blown away. It's like, oh my God, I can't believe someone writes like music for my film. And it's, you know, and I was like always, you know, I was kind of worried he was not going to like it first.

So when he was just blown away, that reaction, it was just so, it was so fun. And that, and then every time we were together, it was like, he had such an, it was, it was like such a, it was so passionate. about his work and and it was always so fun right so and we so we both are like addictive like we love our work right and and when you get to combine that friendship with with with work so that that's that's that's that's that makes it very special you can hang out with your with your buddies right while working can I geek out with you for a second on three films fruit veil um black panther and sinners When you think of those three films,

what instrument comes up in your mind first for each? Fruitvale was guitar. Because I knew, I was, like, I knew how much Ryan loved guitar, you know? And, and I guess I never really thought about why he loves the guitar. And I never understood why he loves it until, like, we started working on sinners. And I was like, I understand, like, okay, well, his uncle, you know, was a great blues. He loved blues music and he always played blues.

And obviously in blues music, guitar is the main instrument, right? So Ryan kind of grew up listening to that music and it's always been in his bones and his mind. And my dad is a guitar player. And it was blues music that changed my dad's life to become a blues guitar player. In 1964, he bought his first. My dad bought his first blues album, John Lee, Hooker and that music, you know, coming from the other side of the world to Sweden,

changed his life to become a guitar player. And that, obviously, and that made my, you know, he put a guitar in my hands when I was seven. So it's kind of a full circle there. That's really cool. Yeah. So with Prevostation, I would say the guitar is, is the main instrument. And Black Panther is the, the talking drums. Mm-hmm.

I don't really know what talking drums are. Could you explain? Yeah, it's the first type of communication device. It's the first telephone. So in Africa, and I was specifically, I went to Senegal and West Africa. But the talking drum exists in so many different regions down in Africa. But it's basically a drum that you can play messages with because it's very small and you can breathe and you can squeeze it to have different. pitches. So with these different pitches and these different rhythms, you can talk. It's almost like

Morse code, you know, but analog on a drum. And in every village, they would have a talking drum that would relay messages to the, he would stand in the middle, he or she would stand in the middle and then play. And they would, you could tell, oh, the king has died or someone's back from being gone for a long time. We, you know, everyone get together. And so, and I met this incredible. musician in Senegal, Masamba Diop, who put together an amazing talking drum crew, and we recorded a bunch of stuff in Senegal. And also, one thing that I thought was so interesting was like, how would you say Tachalla's name on that instrument on that drum?

Yeah, oh, wow, very cool. The theme. And for sinners, yeah, it's a guitar again, and we're back to where it all started. Yeah, and Buddy Guy. and who is in the film and who I want to talk to Ryan about. It's just like amazing, like an amazing moment at the end of the film. Yeah. Thank you for talking about Ryan and I'm really excited to talk to him today.

Do you have a question for me before we go that you think would be fun for me to ask? It could be big or small. It could be asking him a story to tell. It could be a private joke of your many years together. or it could be something about the film or anything at all. I mean, you could ask him, you know, because when we were doing sinners, he was practicing guitar,

he was playing almost every day, you know. He had a guitar in his office. He took it with him when he moved to New Orleans for production. So, you know, and I spent a little, not a lot of time, but a little time with him just like showing him how certain riffs was going. And so, you know, that's something you could check in with him.

Like how is his chops coming along? Perfect. Perfect. Okay. And only because the movie's over doesn't mean that he just need, you know, that he doesn't need to keep it up. Yeah. Right.

Right. That Ludwig says like, you know, you just can't put it down. Like, next time I see you, I expect you to be, I expect you to have improved. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Great. Well, thank you so.

much for your time. It really means a lot that we got you. And what I know is probably a busy day with a young up-and-coming filmmaker Christopher Nolan. I wish him the best. And just such a fan of your work and really, really appreciate your time. Lidvik. Really nice to meet you. And I hope to see you maybe in Sweden next time. Any time. And tech, Thank you. Are you? Ayo? Ayo.

Ayo. Oh, hey do? Yes. Okay. Thank you so much. Bye. This episode is brought to you by Visible. Got a resolution to save.

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management details. Ryan Cooper is here. I am so, so happy. Thank you so much for doing this. Thanks for having me. This is amazing. I can't believe I got an invite here. Are you kidding?

Are you kidding? We're thrilled you wanted to do this. And I just got to start by saying like, I'm going to glaze you a little bit in the beginning. Please don't. I know you're not comfortable. It only take a few minutes. I promise I'll be done. But what we were talking about what I was thinking about what I wanted to talk to you

about today, like the big thematic thing is that, and what I love about your work and your characters, is that you don't limit the possibilities of what you want to do as an artist and what your characters could do. Like, you're really into the idea of almost open borders in terms of, in terms of what people can do, and also like what's in them, basically what's in them. And I feel like that comes from, I've, you know, been reading so much about you and watching, of course, everything you make. And it feels like you're really into this idea of making sure that you get influences from everywhere, like that that really informs you.

Why do you think it's important to be influenced all the time by many different things? I think for me, I'm interested in a lot of different things. Yeah. And all of my experience is definitely like inform me where I find myself, right? Yeah. And I think that what I do and, you know, the position I occupy in the industry is, you know, I'm trusted to make things that can go into theaters and work for people from a lot of different backgrounds and environments and circumstances, right?

Yeah. So I think, I think, like, what I have to do is I have to stay true to, to myself and what I like and also consider you know what people came up consuming if that makes sense is that is that

it does it does and you and what you're saying is really interesting too because as an artist you have to kind of like you have such a strong instinct about what you want and it's almost like you can't you almost want to forget

who you're making it for but what I love about your work is you don't well yeah yeah you don't Yeah, no, no, for sure, because I can't, right? Like, you know, I'm feeling in love with movies, like, at the multiplex. You know what I mean? I didn't go to an art house theater or to a film festival until I was, like, a fully-backed adult, you know what I'm saying?

When you were a kid, what did you eat at the movies? Oh. Tell me about your movie experience. What would Ryan, would you bring stuff and sneak stuff in? Would you get it there? I cannot confirm or deny. any snacks smuggling. But if I did, I might have brought a pen butter and jelly sandwich or two.

You know what I mean? That was what I would do if I was into that. But no, like, I used to like, it was a period of time where they used to let you weigh the candy. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like you pay about weight. Yeah. And I would do experiments trying to see like what candy was lighter.

That I looked crazy, which candy was heavier, you know what I mean? You just get like a trash bag full of cotton candy. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Exactly. We in there with limited funds, you know. And shout-saw to all the cinemas that used to let us stay. Once we bought one thing, you know, we could go ahead and go. They went tripping off us going and see something else. Yeah.

Get a little bang for your buck. But no, my go-to was peanut M&Ms. I'm not a big soda person, but like when they started to let you mix and match the drinks, I got involved with that. You know, yeah, so it was peanut M&M&M's. And then obviously the junior men's, if they're in the freezer. You know, like, if they got them in the freezer, then I'm going to do it. Like, the ritual of getting your snack and sitting down and lights going down.

Oh, man. I know you've talked about it, but, like, it's so important for you to, for films to live in theaters. Why is it so important for you? Man, you, this is really cool. We're talking about this. No, I just love how How I mean, shit is the word, egalitarian

Like, like, but I love how it's just You in there With a bunch of different types of people You know? It's teenagers in there Because that's the only place I could go be alone Um, it's it's retired couples, you know what I mean? I guess it's groups of friends

Depending on the movie you want to see But everybody's in there together Yeah And when a movie is great, you know, everybody kind of unifies. You know, like, you feel, you can feel everybody's energy, focus on the same thing. And what I actually really love about it that I learned about myself since, since, like, the streaming era is like when I get, when I get overwhelmed,

whether it's something's too funny or something scary or I got too much anxiety, or I'm too, like, turned on by while I'm looking at it or whatever, I pause, like almost like immediately you know what i mean like like like i'll have a fear that yeah maybe i'm gonna miss something because i'm laughing too hard or or um out of a out of a worry that like i'm gonna get too worked up and i'm gonna have a fucking heart attack or something can you curse on this yeah you're gonna i'm gonna have a heart attack or something you know something i'm fucking panic attack i'll pause yeah yeah but like it was dope in the theaters you can't pause that's so real you know like you there's no so when something's happening that has you

like feeling like you you're out of control you still got you still got a you still got to go with it, that feeling of giving yourself over to something that you don't have to control, to pause, rewind, or fast forward. Like, that is a really, you know, it's a really nice feeling. Like, you come from it, you come from it from imp-op comedy. You're making me remember, like, when I went to the movie theater,

too, what also happened was, like, from, like, I wanted to be funny. So also it was a place where you could be kind of funny. Like, you know, you'd have a moment, a quiet moment. You know, like, especially in the, like in the trailer. It's not so much the movies. Sometimes people wouldn't like it. Yeah. But in the trailer, a trailer would come out and someone would be like, nope, you know,

whatever, whatever. After the trailer. Yeah. Or, you know, or something like, someone would. And you get to get a laugh in a group. Yeah. Like, you'd get, like, that was sometimes like a lot of people's first laugh. Oh, that's awesome.

I never thought about this. And also in movie theaters, a lot of action happens like your first day. Yeah, yeah. You're scared. You grab someone's hand. The first time I held someone's hand was in a movie theater. Yeah. Like, it is so intimate.

It's so cool. Who were the, what were the movies when you were, like, what were the movies that you can remember as a young person going in and walking out of that theater and feeling like you had been completely transformed? Yeah, it'll be, it'll be two big ones, boys in the hood. Yeah. And I was a baby in there, man. Like, like, younger than my, younger than my eldest kid is now. And she can't get through a Pixar movie. without being like, dad, it's too crazy, you know.

My dad had me, like, waging in the hood. Like, right here, son, you know. I'm like, four years old. Like, ah, oh, shit. But then, but then, beauty in the beach. Yeah. And then Malcolm Mesh. Yeah.

All of these was, like, kindergarten first grade. And then, I would say, I would say probably one of the biggest ones was Jurassic Park. Mm-hmm. We saw Jurassic Park when Oakland still had a drive-in. and I remember being in I remember being in the car and I used to hook the speakers up to the window and I'm in there

and it's the scene where the T-Rex scene at night you know that thing comes out they in a car driving away from me and they got the shot in the in the in the like side view mirror where it says objects may be closer than they appear and a T-Rex is right on them screaming.

And I'll look at, I'll look at, I'll look at my son. And it's got the same shit written on it. So I'm like, ah, like, it's just going to be a T, you know what I mean? Like a T-Rex jumping off. You know, I never, like, I'll never forget that shit, man. And like, I got addicted to that feeling. Yes, yes. So I got the opportunity now to try to attempt to give people that feeling, you know.

So you mentioned Oakland, you grew up in Oakland. You're going to school there. You're really good at sports. You're really good at football. I was, I was all right. Yeah. Okay. You're a really good foot.

What position did you play? In college, I play a receiver. Yeah, so I retired kicks play a receiver. When you're a receiver and you're in college, are you always worried about your hands? Like, you know, do you, when you're like out and you're like, I can't do that? No, I didn't.

You don't. You don't. You don't treat your hands like? No, I didn't. Okay, okay. Yeah, no. I mean, I was like, I mean, I was like,

But I mean, it feels like it would be like you did get. No, I mean, if I was smart, I would have been like, I was like 17. You know what I mean? I wasn't tripping. Like, like, I was literally like slamming my hand in car doors and sure. Right. Like, so it wasn't really something we were, I should have been thinking about it. But like, now the kids get paid, which is great.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, I was on scholarship, which is like the most you could do legally, you know what I mean? Like at the time. And I was like, I was like thrilled that I could pay for school because my parents. was busting their ass put me through private school most of my most of my life. So y'all was just, I was thrilled, man. I was not thinking about my hands. No.

And did you love that, did you love that feeling of playing football? Like, what was so great? Oh, yeah, I loved you. And were you, you were a Raiders fan growing up, obviously? Man, I was Agnostic. Yeah, like in the bay, I was agnostic, man. Do you have any posters on your wall? Did young Ryan have posters on?

I did. I did. Who, were they of athletes or were they artists? Athletes, artists. I had them all. Like, who'd you have? I had, it's crazy. I had Jerry Rice.

Oh, yep. I had Tim Hardaway. Uh, sure. Warriors run TMC. Um, you know, down the road, um, you know, I would get, I would get into like, into like other athletes. Like, Hakeem Olajuwon was a big one for me. Um, you know, and then football wise, once I started playing receiver, I just,

I liked all the receivers, man. Randy Moss, Terrell Orange. Yeah. Tim Brown, you know, Steve Smith, who was Steve Smith I love because he was like short like I was, you know, and we're still out there making it happen. It's interesting, like athletes just like anyone else are like, I find looking for people that rep, like look like them. Absolutely. That are good because it's like I. Absolutely.

Yeah. But I mean, I also knew that like, you know, I would meet players like like Maurice Jones, Drew or Marshaun Lynch, like players I would play against and I'd be. be like, man, they got a lot better than me. You were like, oh, they're going to be. Yeah, yeah. Like, you come across players. It's like, oh, that's something different happening there. And I was kind of how I also kind of could see earlier.

Maybe football wasn't going to be what I did for every. How about Marchand being like a comedy star now? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Was he always funny? I mean, he's not funny when you're trying to tackle me. You know what I'm saying? I used to really play against him.

You know, like, like, we came across each other a lot. And he would actually, in high school, he was trying to guard me. So I was dealing with him on offense and defense. I had some success on the offensive side against him. But like trying to tackle that man was impossible. So like, yeah, he was not funny on the field. No. But he has a person, man, he's hilarious.

You know what I mean? His whole family is like that, though. Yeah, yeah. Like our family's from the same part of Oakland. And his mom hilarious, you know what I mean? Like his brothers, you know what I mean? Like his brothers, you know, yeah. But how do you go from, so you're playing in your finance major

and then you switch to becoming a film major? No, like so. You leave and go to USC after you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, I went to high school in Berkeley. Yeah. And at this point, I was living in Richmond, another city. Yeah.

That's even more blue collar than Auckland, right? Yeah. And I got a scholarship to a school called St. Mary's College, which in the Bay. I had a teacher there, Rosemary Graham, who read something that I wrote in the creative writing class, was like, yo, you should write screenplays. But at that time, I was a chemistry major. So I figured I was going to try to be a doctor or something, right?

And then, but the chemistry lives was not working out with my football practices. I was having a real tough time. So I was like, y, y, I got to get out this chemistry shit so I can keep my scholarship. And that football program collapsed. So I got another scholarship to Sacramento State, went there and measured in finance. I took filmmaking classes on the side, if that makes sense.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, when I've been learning about you, like, USC, you met so many people that. Oh, yeah, everybody. It's talking about a team. It's where you met your team. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.

Like all the members. So I was grad school. Right. And I met, I mean, I guess all the other people I worked with, Louisville Vig was who I met first, Louis Louis I'm hearing, my composure. and then my co-writer on Creed, Aaron Covington, and then eventually I meet Sev, O'Hanian. Yeah, who...

You're producing partner? Yeah, who works with me in Zenzia at proximity. And you met your beautiful wife, Zinzie there. Well, Zinzie, I met in Auckland. Like, I met... Oh, you met... Oh, you guys met when you were like 13. I was 13, yeah.

You guys grew up together. You grew up together. I think it's so amazing. When you talk about all the stuff that you make, you talk about the people that you make, with, which, in my opinion, like really, I don't know, I so respect artists who remind people that what they make is a communal effort. Oh, yeah.

But people don't always want to do that, right? Like, they don't want, they, sometimes they, that's just not their first instinct. And it really is. And I know Zinzie makes your films with you. And how important is she, in terms of like your process? How do you guys work together? We just, like, since we, so we started dating in high school, we broke up for a little bit. And then, um.

What happened there? I mean, you know, that's not for the podcast, but high school shit. But, but we got back together right before we went to college. Yeah. And what we would do, like that summer before we left, because we was both on scholarship. She went to Fresno State. I went to St. Mary's like I mentioned in there in Sacramento State. But what we would do is we would just work out together.

to get ready for college and we go to the movies. Like, that was it. Like, we was either on the track working out in the way room, living ways, or we was, you know, we was at the movies, you know, in Emeryville and Richmond. And for us, we got really used to just pushing each other, you know, and supporting each other, you know, being at each other's meets, her being at my football games.

She's incredibly shy, but, like, at my games, I can hear her voice, you know. While I was out there trying to catch touchdowns and everything, I tried to do the same for her that track meets. And when I got interested in filmmaking, you know, she was just really supportive. You know, like I was writing screenplays and Microsoft Word and kind of like venting to her. Like, man, one day I got the software that costs $300 bucks called Final Draft. And, you know, maybe one day I could get that, you know what I mean? So I got to adjust the margins and all of that.

And then she, you know, she set her from money, got that for me. And it wasn't just like, here, baby, here goes to the drive. She was like, hey, where's that script at? You know? Yeah. There's that thing you're working on. Yeah. You know, the athletic mindset.

Yeah. So how it works is, you know, I always talk to her about what I'm thinking about working on. And I kind of home my pitch with her. Yeah. She'll be the first person to read, you know, what I write, give me feedback. So my scripts are always going on. I really, really honed at the early stages in my career in the film school. She was with me, you know, all the time.

She was in there all day classes with me. She worked on the sets, you know, producing and sometimes operating the camera, you know, if I had to jump in. You know, so it was that kind of support. And it just kind of stayed that way through Fruitville when we shot at home. I was when we first moved in and started living together. Wow. She was on set. Even though she had a day job, she would just come, like, get off work, come straight to say.

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What I'm learning or what I feel like I know about you, Ryan, is like you're super collaborative and also you know what you want. Like those two things are so important, I think, for any real leader, especially on set. But I don't think enough people know that a set is like a little town. Totally. It's like so many people working. No, totally, totally. And your parents were school teachers. Yeah.

Yeah. So like you get it. Yeah. Like the, like that, you know, that blue collar. mindset, you know, the communal mindset, the need for communication. For me, it really is, I think that's why movies work when they work, you know, because you're talking about like mass entertainment, you know what I mean? Like a lot of people going and go engage with the story.

But that's why you're such a genius is because it's, it's hard to make, it's hard to make a movie, number one, just hard to make a movie. Then it's hard to make a good movie. Yeah. Then it's hard to make a good movie that people enjoy making with you. They walk away and go, that was a good experience. Then it's hard to make a good movie that was enjoyable to make that people go and see. Yeah.

Those things are really hard to make. Yeah, no, you've done it over and over and over again. And you've done it again with sinners. So incredible. Oh, thank you. And I picture you going to your team and being like, I have an idea. And they were like, what was their first instinct was? So I went to Zenzzi first.

Yeah. And it wasn't fully back. And she was like, man, I ain't ready yet. You know, keep thinking on that. So I thought about it some more. Yeah. I think I went to her like three times before she was like, okay, that makes sense. You know, and it was better for it.

And then it goes to Seve O'Han, who, you know, we were the three founders of proximity. And we got a co-founder and Louis Eurrensen. And this is a music-based film. So we brought Louis again crazy. Early. Yeah, exactly. Before that was a script, you know, while it was just how I did. Oh, that's so interesting that Livvig.

So were you always thinking about Michael B. Jordan from that? You were always thinking about using him as the twins. And the twins was always an early, like that was, why twins? It's hard to shoot. I know. Yeah. Like this extra work. Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, no, for sure.

I mean, look, like, it was a hook for me. It was so sticky, right? Like, and in this day and age, you need, I think you need more. multiple reasons to like lean in, you know, like when there's so many great things available, you know, like I was in the way room. I'm watching you and I'm watching you and Julie Dreyfus talk and it's so entertaining. Like it's an hour, it's an hour like two really entertaining people being intimate and talking. You know, that's just on my phone for me to click. You know, there's so many ways to spend time. So for me, like, I think that I'm a firm believer in

like things having multiple hooks. You know what I mean? And it's a hook for me because I have twins in my family and I love them and I got a lot of homies as twins but I'm also also have a crippling fear of doppelgangers like a strike phobia you know what I mean?

No, I don't. What do you mean? Yeah. What are you afraid of that you're going to run across your own? Yeah, I've had nightmares like that. You have? Yeah, but also like

because I know what you mean because, no offense to twins, but twins, the idea of twins in general is a little creepy. It's a little creepy. Yeah, yeah. It's great. It's just creepy enough. Yeah, like, so I think. Someone who was in the womb with you. Well, yeah, that's fascinating to me. Yeah. And we dug deep with Mike. Like, I got two buddies who are filmmakers, Noah and Logan Miller. They actually wrote the script G20 that Viola was in when she was the president, like doing action shit. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But they're from Northern California a little bit farther north than we're on from.

and I actually asked him if they would be open to being consultants on the movie, like to work with me and Mike on developing the characters. And we dug so deep into like the mindset and the dynamics of what it's like to have, you know, essentially a copy of yourself next to you all the time, you know. But Michael B., he's just like, he just knocked me back

by his brainings and how he portrayed these characters. Where did you first see, Michael? Did you see him before you knew him? Did you see his... Did you see... Did you watch The Wire? I did. So good in that.

Yeah. Like, heartbreaking. Heartbreaking. Yeah, Wallace. Yeah. Wallace is... I knew a lot of kids like that. Yeah.

You know, both, you know, friends of mine and also when I was working with my dad, you know, so yeah, like, he was a brilliant, a brilliant portrayal. And, you know, kudos to Mike for his performance and David Simon for... for writing the character. And HBO for having the show, you know what I mean? That show was a next level. Yeah, and he was great Friday Night Lights. Yeah, that's right.

And did you, like, do you think it's important for directors? A lot of directors have an actor that they get to kind of, you've had a few, but like an actor that you get to kind of keep working with and working stuff out with. Why is that helpful to work with the same person more than once? Yeah, I mean, I think it's great, man. Like, well, it's funny because it actually comes back to football for me, because I play a receiver,

and I play with a lot of different quarterbacks, you know, especially in college. And it was tough because I never felt like I found my rhythm with one person, you know. And that's so important. Like, I think finding a rhythm is like a, it's like fundamental to, I think, to achieving greatness, you know. So it's phenomenal to have found an actor

who's so talented, you know, gifted, ambitious, you know, because Mike is constantly trying to push himself and get better at his craft. It's professional. He's also like a good person, you know, like he's like when you're doing a movie with him, if he's number one in your car, you know that you're going to have a safe set for people. Yeah. He'll be able to do great work without making people's lives miserable. He's going to treat people with kindness.

He got nothing to prove. So he learns the PA's name. He learns the camera operator's name. Yeah. The same way he'll know the producer's names, you know. Right, right. And that is something that I think permeates the set, like, at a foundational level. I've been very blessed in that.

Well, one could argue, too, that you, you, that's also what you transmit, give off. That's your station. Like, your channel is attuned to that, so people take their cue from you. I try to. You know? But it's great to have Mike there to amplify it, you know, because that's who he is. You know? And he's ridiculously talented.

And he was doing work that required a lot of focus. You know, like he was still generous to people. Yeah. Even though he'll come to selling a day where he's got to be, you know, two different people. Was it fun to call him up and be like, you're going to be a vampire? What was crazy is. Because I would be psyched if someone called me and said that. Hey, we might have to make the call at something.

Man, we might have to figure out all. But for me, what would it? it was was how they ended up working. I was trying to get the screenplay together because Mike's busy, you know. And I didn't want to say, hey, I got a thing. And didn't have me waiting for, you know, for a script. I didn't need him blowing my phone.

I didn't wear it set. But what ended up happening was he called me and pitched me something. While I was working on this for him. And then I was like, at first I was like, Mike, I can't, you know, I can't work on that right now. And he got upset. Like, hey, man, what's going on, man? I want to get this going.

Yep. Like, it's something you're not telling me. So I'm like, look, I'm working on the thing. Oh, it's interesting. You're like, I have a secret, but I'm not ready to tell you yet. I'm bringing this to you. Wow. This is what it is.

It's twins. You know, it's period. It's vampires. And I remember how he reacted because he just got quiet for it for a long time. And I was like, oh, shit, did I lose him? You know, and he's like, man, he's like, man, you know what? That sounds pretty interesting, man. He was like, okay, okay.

When are you want to do it? And so I got the script done and got it to him, and then he was in. I mean, I, there's a lot, I'm not a big horror. I get kind of scared at movies and I'm not really a big horror fan. But what's so cool about vampires is vampires are sexy. Exactly. Zombies are not. Zombies are sexy.

No. Vampires are sexy. There's, it's true. And your film has a, like there's so much going on. and Sinners is so amazing. And original IP and like beautifully written and beautifully acted and shot an incredible cast. The chemistry between the characters in your film

is so real. And the way in which you basically create, in the midst of horror, like love and romance and sex, you do a lot of things in this movie really, really well. And I would just like to say the most, of the many things in the fact, film that I loved, can I just get small for a second to talk about the scene, the dancing scene

in the film? Autumn, your incredible DP, first female DP to shoot in this IMAX format, Arcapa. Autumn, Autumn, Arquapal, yeah. And Autumn, but how did you guys approach the scene? There's that beautiful scene where everyone's dancing and kind of enjoying themselves before the horror starts and their ancestors kind of, they join them. how did that scene look on the page? Yeah, I could tell you,

because I had outlined the script before getting into Final Drive and writing it. Yeah. And I didn't have that surreal element to it. It was just going to be that, that, you know, Preacher Boy sings and people like it, you know. That's what it said in the script? No, no, no, no. That's what I said in the outline. Okay, the outline.

In the outline. When I got to it in the script, like I felt strange because I had fallen in love with all these characters. I didn't want them to die. You know what I mean? Like that was, I realized in this movie, they got out, they all got to, like, get bit in the neck and check out. You know what I'm saying? And, and I felt bad. And I realized that this scene was the midpoint.

And it down on me, they're like, though, these people, the real people, not in my script, but the real people that they, that they, that they, they, they basically. based on these black folks in 1930s who were like of age to be in this juke joint, you know, they were living in Clarksdale during Jim Carrey. They all were sharecroppers because it was nothing else that the society allowed them to be. Their grandparents were enslaved. Their children, their children's children would still be sharecroppers. but somehow they invented, you know, probably the most impactful American contribution to global popular culture. And they invented it just because they wanted to feel alive for a few hours, you know, Friday and Saturday night.

You know, and they had no, I don't think they had any idea that the music that they listened to would change the world. You know, like, so I thought about that. I say, man, I'm about to kill him by vampires. You know, like, I got to have something else in the movie that is, like, some type of, some type of victory moment, you know. And that was where, that was where the idea, the idea of depicting just how, how powerful and transcendent Sammy's voice is, if it could call a vampire, you know, maybe it could call these people's ancestors and descendants, too.

So, so I wrote the script, I wrote it all. in italics. I clicked the italics on and I kept it all in one chunk. Wow. Yeah. Like almost like a stream of consciousness. And left it like that in the script for when, you know, for when my partner's read it and everybody read it to know it to really, you know, read that differently.

Yeah. It's so powerful. And thank you for putting that, putting that, giving that context to it because that's what it felt like. It felt like you were you were loving those characters and real. time. Yeah. That's what it felt like.

I feel like a loving gesture. And we felt that when we saw it was so, so beautiful. And so beautifully shot. Just the way the camera moves. I mean, it was everybody working like in concert with each other. We brought in Akamon Jones, who's a choreographer. Works a lot with Usher Raymond. The choreographed like pitch perfect.

And you did all the Panther films. I actually met him through Chadwick Boseman. I'm rest of peace. And, you know, every department was in on that, like from Hannah Bickler to our visual effects supervisors, Michael Rale and James Alexander. They're all the archipar, semitographer, obviously. We had a brilliant steady cam. Yeah, the steady cam work was incredible. Yeah, it's a kid named Rennie, Haitian American kid, ex-football player.

His shoulder must have been hurting in that one. Yeah, he used to be strong, strong, dude, and sharp. you know and everybody had to you know everybody had to work together the actors yeah the incredible dancers um you know ruth carter with our costumes yeah beautiful and it was it was like that was the most team effort uh of everything that we that we did that that that scene as well as it's it's uh i used call like the twin counterpart which is the step dancing scene that happens yeah that happens a little later in the film yeah it's so beautiful and um i i want to say you you talk about your work on black Panther and Chadwick, you gave a beautiful speech recently at the Hollywood Walk of Fame

about Chadwick, which is beautiful. And I don't think people ask you enough or I don't hear enough, like, what did you guys laugh about when you would work together on Black Panther? You and Chad. What did you, what, when you think about the times where you laugh together? Have you seen, have you seen Chad on SNL? Oh, yeah. Yeah, he's hilarious. He is hilarious. Like, you know, you play James Brown. I mean, he can do anything. Yeah, yeah. No, but his, his natural, his natural way of being, I think... Would he...

Did he... Did he... Did he... All the time. That's the... Yeah, no, no, no. He was... No, he...

But he would do it in action, which was... What was crazy about him was saying? Yeah, he was very disciplined. So he's constantly in action. Yeah. And just being, it's just being like, like, you know, he'll be ridiculous.

Like, in between takes... Yeah. In between, you know, like, um... Like, I'm trying to, I'm trying to think of like... Like, do you guys... Did you guys goof around when you're... I mean, it's... You're working hard.

I was, I was ridiculously stressed. out. Yeah. You know, like, like, like, like, like, unbelievably stressed out. I bet. And, um, and, and, and we know, we know, we know now what all Chad was dealing with, you know. Um, but he was, he was, he was incredibly, deeply, deeply funny, you know, deeply funny, man. Like, he would, he would, he would, he would tease with, uh, with Lupita and Denai, um, you know, uh, constantly, constantly, constantly cracking jokes, man.

Like, like, and, um, you know, we would laugh, we would laugh most about the costumes. You know, like, just how, how, yeah. And I bet it must be fun to, like, introduce a new costume. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, man. Like, like, like, um, yeah, but, but I, like, we, like, we, like, some of the props, too, man, like, like, we would joke, we were joking and say that he was going to give him, like, like, he was a walking scene.

And we would joke and say we was going to give him the, like, the giraffe tail that he can, like, that he can, like, swipe, like, swipe, while he was walking with him while he was walking with a martial artist. That's right. So he took that, he took the, he took the, uh, the little thing. Yeah, because he had, like, the ability to, like, clown. He was so talented. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

He was gifted, man. Yeah. Like, like, um, but, but how to, you know, just had a great sense of humor. I feel like comedy sometimes is where we stay connected, sometimes with the people that have passed, like, like, like, thinking about the times we laughed with them. 100%. And they, I feel sometimes, like, they make us laugh. Yeah.

We, we see something that makes us laugh that makes us laugh that makes, us think of us laughing with them. I don't know. I just think that, like, it's fun sometimes to think about those times. No, for sure, man. Like, um, and I think, uh,

for me, when I look, when I look back on my, my relationship with him, man, it, it taught me, it taught me so much. But the biggest thing is like to not take things for granted,

you know, like even, even, even all it is, Amy, like, like, um,

the success of the film, um, being invited to do podcasts, through podcasts with you doing awards press with my cast before losing him you know I would be

not present in those in those moments you know like I would be overwhelmed or be considered it to be work or dealing with like imposter syndrome or have you but since losing him because he would be the one

to like snap me out of that you know Like when I would be stressed on Panthers, I'll say, man, I got to hurry up and do this. And I'm going to get fired. You know, and he would say, hey, man, stop saying that. He actually pulled me to the side. It was like, yo, stop saying that, man. You know, and I'm like, no, I truly believe that.

He was like, yo, I'm not going to let anything happen to you. He told me, I'm not letting nobody fire you, bro. Like me. Like, so please stop. You know, please stop saying that. Relax, man. You know, do your work, enjoy it, you know. And that very active being present, he was so good at that.

So I think about that all the time. Yeah. Like even walking in the area with you, I'm like, man, I'm really here. Like, I didn't seem to sit on the podcast. And I'm here talking. I see you perform and watch all your movies and your shows. And it's like, it's like, damn, like I'm being invited to come sit in this same, in the same spot. Are you kidding, Ryan?

Just being present. I literally learned that from him, you know. It's a, that lesson is like, I feel like the lesson we just have to keep remembering and being reminded of over and over again. Like, be where you are. Yes. Be where your feet are. where you are. It's hard. It's not easy, but you're right. It's a gift every time you're reminded of it. So are you getting to enjoy the fact that you have a gigantic, successful movie that's

like being rewarded and will be awarded and you're with these people that you work with now for really long? It's awesome. You don't have a time in my life. And so we do this thing on the show where we talk to people who know our guests. We kind of talk well behind their back before we get, before we talked to that. And we talked to Ludwig today. Okay. Oh, man, that's crazy. Okay. And first of all, so Swedish. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. My brother lives in Sweden, so I tried to talk a little Swedish to him. How'd they go? It didn't go well. Oh. He talked back to you in English? No, he talked back to me in Swedish and I panicked. Like, I totally panicked. Well, you got through the first thing. I said like two words and then he answered me and I froze.

Usually when I try to speak in other language, the people who native speakers, they just talk back to me in English and be like, hey, you know, Oh, I know. There's nothing sadder than when they talk back to you in English and they're like, please don't. They're like, what are we trying to do here? Yeah. So you got Swedish back. So I did get, thank you.

You're right. Maybe I should look at it as a win. So I got Swedish back. You got the first bass. You know what I mean? Exactly. He definitely, he was humoring me. And he's so, oh my, I mean, what it's incredible talent.

Yeah. And the music, it's so interesting to me that you brought him in so early because you can tell that, I mean, this is a movie about the power of music, too. And, you know, you have buddy guy be like the embodiment of kind of like the before and now. You know, it's just like a living person. Totally. And in many ways, almost feels like a vampire. Yeah.

In the way that like feels like he's still here. And was there then. It's so cool. It wasn't that long ago. Yeah. That's like kind of like what the movie is saying. Right. Right.

And a very good reminder. It's actually like I cheated him for younger. Because like if the character would have actually been buddy's age, it would have put the movie into the 2000s. Right, right. Put it in 2000 and two as opposed to the 92, which would have put the fashion like it is today. So it would have probably confused.

Oh, right. Yeah, because you, right, you need a little bit. You're a confused audience. That's really interesting. And you and Ludwig, you know, he's talked about how amazing it is to work with you, how collaborative is to work with you. He also said, like, you know, there were a bunch of different versions, versions of sinners that before the final version and working on that together and figuring out what that was. And how his dad and your family, like the blues were important. It brought us together.

It did. How did it bring you guys together? Well, yeah, like so the history of how the blues kind of became this instrument of like global cultural change was really interesting. Like the Delta Blues, when the record industry came, they made those records, race records. And this was a time where, you know, the country was segregated. and the record industry was a product of that. So they would kind of put Rice records over here, anything made by a black person.

The same record made by a white person, I'd call it maybe rock and roll or bluegrass or country. And black musicians, when the record industry was burgeoned, they couldn't tour, you know. But their records would travel, you know, overseas. and a lot of, you know, bands in Europe kind of fell in love with the music, like maybe most famously the Rolling Stones, for instance, or the Beatles. And then those guys would come to the states and seek out these musicians

and then take them on their European tours, you know, as opening acts. And in Sweden, Louisville's father saw, I believe, John Lee Hooker, and Albert King. Yeah, yeah, and was so inspired by seeing him that he decided that he wanted to become Bulls, guitarist, and became one, you know. And when he had his first son, who was Louisville, you know, he introduced him to guitar lessons, you know.

And his dad made money as a guitar teacher. Wow. And what's crazy is Louisvig, you know, how he tells me, it was something that he would, he like spending. time with his dad, but he wasn't necessarily crazy about the music that his dad was listening to until he heard Metallica, you know. And then, and then boom, we fell in love with it and, you know, became a, you know, a guitarist, had a jazz quartet, all kinds of different stuff. We went with the music

school. And eventually he came to, came to the States to learn how to become a film composer. And that's how we met. We met in school. Yeah. You know, in 2008. Yeah, you met at a party. We did. I mean, if you want to call it that, it was pretty, it was pretty dead. A bunch of people sitting around. It was a bunch of nerd sitting around. And we was two of them, you know what I mean? But thank God I found him. Yeah, his question to you is like a perfect musician, guitarist question, which is question

that he wanted me to ask you was, how is your guitar playing going? Oh, my God. He wants to know how it's going. I'm so busy. Oh, okay, so maybe, maybe there's. one thing you're not great at? It's a lot of things I'm great at. You should bring Zinzie in here.

It should tell you all of them. But no, no, I'm terrible. Yeah, like, it's not going well. Yeah, it's not going well. Good. It makes the rest of us feel a little better that you're also not excellent at guitar, blues guitar yet.

Yeah, but you're learning. Better at typing. Yeah. But the guitar is still there. You know, my kids play now, you know. But I got to get back on my, I got to get back on my lessons. Yeah, he wanted to check in.

No, that's not going to will. Okay, we'll let them know. Well, I just want to say, you know, before we wrap, is that the effect that Black Panther had on, you know, I went to the movies to see that with my sons, my teen sons. And to see something together, a shared experience like that together, and to kind of walk out, to your point, out into the world after feeling completely changed.

Like the color of the sky is different and the way we're talking to each other is different and the things we've heard is different. Like the way in which their lives were truly changed by that film is so special to me. I really, I thank you for it. Because it's not always easy to find that, especially like a mom and her boys and teen boys

and like to find something that you can share in together and love equally. It's such an incredible piece of art. they would want me to ask you if you're making another one. Yes. Okay. That's all I want to know. No, no.

My mom was my movie buddy, you know. Yeah. And she still is. You know, so, so, yeah, like I got that, that, hearing that story, I can't tell you how many times I've been in the car, my mom going and go see a movie she was excited about. She would go when I was too young and go to see movies, she would come. back from dates with my dad and if the movie was good, you know, she was, she was, she was, she was, she was standing there in the living room and act out of the movie for me. Like, walk, walk me through everything that happened.

That's so cool. My fondest memory was her doing that with the fugitives, you know what I mean? Like, she's like, yeah, in the airs, a fort jumps down the waterfall. And then, like, Tommy Lee Jones says, I don't care. And then, like, you know, that was my mom. So, like, hearing that you watched it with your boys, y'all had a nice time, that means everything to me. Thank you.

It meant a lot to me too. I really appreciate it. And the last question I want to ask you is your relationship to comedy. I think in all the stuff that you do, you have fun, you like have fun with the ways. And again, you don't put boundaries on how your characters are going to react to things. Sometimes they're like light and comedic. You want to have fun in the stuff that you make and you want people to have fun when they go and see your films. What are your, what were some influential comedic?

films for you growing up. And what's making you laugh now? How do you laugh? Man, that's so funny. A lot of it for me these days it's coming like, it's coming from the internet.

Yeah. Like, like big time, man. But coming up, you know, like one of my favorite movies is coming to America. Oh my God. Incredible movie. Like that's my You know, that's my incredible.

That's got my heart to this day. And I love, I love, like, I love Friday. Yeah. You know? Like, like,

that's a big one. Yeah. I love, I love, like, McKay's work, like, one of my favorite movies to other guys.

Oh, yeah. I mean. I think that gets slept on. I totally agree. That's my favorite movie of his. Even though you make some great, some great ones. That is a stupid,

fun movie. Yo. I can't, like, it's, like, It's so much, it's like, it's so much, yeah, it's so much in that movie that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, like, like, I'm, like, like, yeah, like, like, always as Chanel, you know. Do you watch usenel? Yeah, big time. You do?

Yeah. I got homies that's been on there and just, you know, like, like, like, I love what Mike did on there. Yeah. Yeah. The State Farm bit, you know. Wait, let's watch that. Wait, tell me again, explain again the State Farm bit. So Mike is

You want me in there? Yeah, well you set it up. Set up the clip. So Mike is Jake from State Farm and it just goes dark like from there it becomes like a like a like a like a like a David Lynch.

But um. Oh yeah, Jake from State Farm. He just totally replaces he totally replaces this. He becomes this man's worst nightmare. Like he replaces him. I can see how why you would like this. Get out of play

He's got his hand on the small of his wife's back Yeah Oh, he just gave him a look Yeah Okay, so you're You watch, you watch sketch to get I do Okay

Yeah, yeah, I do I love it I love it That's why I'm so excited to be here I mean obviously I mean that enjoy from Pixar You know what I'm saying But all of the all of the comedy

stuff, man. I'm like, I'm like, I think it's like the highest level of what we do. So like, you know, any of y'all that can, that can kill it on multiple levels and multiple ways, you know what I mean, live, scripted or improv, it's like, you know. But you would know that from my work. No, I feel it. I feel it. I'm definitely in there. Yeah, I get it. And I know you're like beyond busy. It means a lot that you came. Thank you so much for coming. Thanks for having me.

It's such a, such a, such a pleasure. And thank you to every, your incredible team of people too who made it happen. So thanks, Ryan. It means a lot. Thanks so much for comedy. Thank you so much, Ryan. That was awesome. And I learned so much about you and about films and your love of them. So thanks for joining me today. And for this polar plunge as we finish, you know, I asked Ryan what kind of posters were hanging on his wall. And I thought it was only fair to share what was hanging on my wall when I was growing up. So you should know. that I had a poster of the band White Snake. Okay, that's number one.

Number two, I think I must have had like a movie poster. It was probably, you know, something like Lily Tomlin and Bet Midler and like Big Business or something like that. I don't remember. I probably had an 80s motivational poster like a cat hanging on a branch saying, hang in there. When I was really young, I used to look at a magazine called Teen Beat, and I would rip out posters of Sean Cassidy and put them on my wall and put lip balm on my lips and then kiss the picture. So, I don't know, just felt like you guys needed to know that. Okay.

Ryan, thank you so much for joining us. Thanks for listening. Bye. You've been listening to Good Hang. The executive producers for this show are Bill Simmons, Jenna Weiss-Burman, and me, Amy Poehler. The show is produced by The Ringer and Paper Kite. For The Ringer, production by Jack Wilson, Katz-Belaine, Kaya McMullen, and Alea Zanaris. For Paper Kite, production by Sam Green, Joel Lovell, and Jenna Weiss Berman.

Original music by Amy Miles.