Good Inside with Dr. Becky - ADHD Beyond the Label with Penn and Kim Holderness

Episode Date: December 16, 2025

ADHD isn’t about deficits; it’s about difference. Dr. Becky talks with Kim and Penn Holderness about emotional intensity, Deeply Feeling Kids, and why connection matters more than correction. They explore reframing ADHD through strengths, supporting kids’ regulation, and finding environments where they thrive.Get the Good Inside App by Dr. Becky: https://bit.ly/4fSxbzkYour Good Inside membership might be eligible for HSA/FSA reimbursement! To learn more about how to get your membership reimbursed, check out the link here: https://www.goodinside.com/fsa-hsa-eligibility/Follow Dr. Becky on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/drbeckyatgoodinsideSign up for our weekly email, Good Insider: https://www.goodinside.com/newsletterFor a full transcript of the episode, go to goodinside.com/podcast.Thank you to our sponsor Zelle. When it counts, send money with Zelle.Headed out for the holidays? Netflix has free, educational games your kids will love—like PAW Patrol Academy, Barbie Color Creations, and LEGO DUPLO World—all fully unlocked with your membership and perfect for travel days, no WiFi required. Find more at netflixfamily.com/traveltipsThank you to our sponsor Skylight. Head to Skylight.com/BECKY for $30 off their 15-inch calendars. This offer expires December 31st of this year.This season, Good Inside is partnering with Welcome Baby, a nonprofit that provides essential supplies to new parents in need. From December 18th–22nd, 10% of every new membership will help fund Welcome Baby packages—giving parents the support they need during those first, beautiful, overwhelming weeks. Learn more at GoodInside.com.Thank you to our sponsor Sony. Get $700 off the Sony Alpha 7 IV camera at electronics.sony.com. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

So many parents come to me asking, my kid was just diagnosed with ADHD, where do I even start? There's confusion, sometimes there's guilt, sometimes there's fear, and parents often feel like they're doing something wrong that their kid can't focus or follow through. Now, ADHD can be complicated. But what I want you to know right from the start is that while it can be challenging, ADHD also signifies that your kid has some amazing gifts. Their brain works in a way that other people's brains don't, which means that in other environments and situations, they thrive.

Like most things in life, two things are true. Today I'm talking with Penn and Kim Halderness. Their parents, their creators, they are children's book authors, and they wrote this incredible children's book about ADHD. It's this beautiful story

that helps empower kids, helps kids feel understood, and I think also gives parents a lens to better understand ADHD and what it does and doesn't mean. Today we're going to talk about ADHD. We're also going to talk about the overlap with deeply feeling kids. And we're going to talk about what works, learning, strengths, and you're just going to get so much out of it.

Maybe for your kid or maybe for yourself. I'm Dr. Becky, and this is good inside. We'll be back right after this. Hi, guys. Hi. Good to see you. again. Good to see you. I am so excited for this conversation. We are going to talk so many things. We're going to focus on ADHD, the way you guys think about it, and a framework that I

think is going to empower so many people. So let's just start with the basics. What is your experience with ADHD, kind of personally and in parenting? I'll start with personally. I was diagnosed when I was 20. So the first 20 years of my life were a bit confusing. I definitely knew that I was a little bit different from everyone else, particularly on the playground. I didn't have as much trouble in school until later on when critical thinking came up. But as a kid, I cried a lot. And not just when I was a toddler, but when I was in middle school, I found myself getting really emotionally overwhelmed at certain situations or just so happy that I couldn't control myself on that end as well. Um, you know, sitting still was not really a great option for me. Um, when I had to sit still,

the way that I released my energy was by chewing on my t-shirt, uh, for several years to the point that I would have this like giant collar of saliva. And it grossed out all of my friends, all of my teachers and my parents. And the response was, well, you just got to stop doing that. And, uh, you know, I, I, just like every other ADHD kid, I got corrected a lot. you know, when I was doing something wrong, but the toughest part was, you know, in the playground. And it wasn't like I grew up in the mean streets. It was, I was in a suburban town. And things didn't go my way and I could not stop from feeling deeply and tearing up. And so getting the explanation when I was 20 was at least a good start in the right direction, but there were even

more challenges after that. And I think in parenting, so we wrote our first prepaid, she is awesome. And we just, honestly, were deeply curious about how this was impacting our marriage and how, and so something we learned in that process that I was unprepared for is the emotional dysregulation part of ADHD that everybody talks about, you know, oh, you're squirmy and you, you know, can't sit still and you lose focus. But the emotional component to me is such a big thing that people often don't talk about. And so my son, he's not 15, has ADHD. And when he was diagnosed, I'm like, oh, my God, that explains so much. That explains him, you know, losing a basketball game where there's nothing on a line. It could not be consoled, felt everything so deeply. And I was like, oh, God, get it together.

You're nine, you know, but he could not. And it just explained, it explained so much. Thanks for letting us steal feeling deeply, like twice in that conversation. Maybe deeply feeling kids, man. Stealing that, because we learn that from you. Yeah, we learn those words from you, yes. Oh, well, it's true, though. Like, you see a kid, and I think, kind of goes to what you were saying, too.

So many times when our kids have any type of inconvenient behavior, we think stop that. Stop that versus, well, like, what's going on underneath that? And I think then we confuse that. People will then say to me, and I know you two wouldn't. Oh, so then it's just okay. Like, we're not talking about whether a behavior is okay or is not. We're just talking about whether we want to be effective in understanding. and intervening and how could you be effective in intervening with, I don't know, a kid's layup

if you don't understand why they're missing the layup. Like, trying to understand why they're missing doesn't mean you think it's cool that they're missing. It's just the only way you could coach them is to understand it. And I think there's something about behavior and kids probably it's hundreds of years of being parented through punishment and control. I don't know, it's like in our bones where we forget, oh, of course I have to understand why a kid is crying about basketball at age nine or why a kid is squirmy or why a kid does this so I can actually figure out what they might need. Right? 100%. Yeah, I mean, we're talking about we're talking about corrections and we've, that's really all we knew. It's probably all our parents know. It's definitely

all our parents' parents used to do. I went to, I don't know if I should tell the story. I went to visit my grandfather one time when I was like three years old and I got my dad told me the story. He's like, I got back and my dad was like, how was he? your trip. I just kept saying, pop, pop, pink. Pop, pop, pink. Like, that was something I had but the point is that the evolution, we're getting better, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yes. And I wonder if it has to do it, like, I always think, I think diagnosis, let me just be clear, can be so helpful, okay? And, like many other things that are nuanced, so many times the words for diagnosis feel so judgmental, where at least in adults, at any age, I'm like, well, everything we're doing

is an adaptation. We're trying to adapt. And then we put these mean words like oppositional defiant disorder. You know, ADHD is like a disorder. And so I'm curious how you think about that label, that word. Is there another way to reframe it or is it useful to think of it as a disorder? How do you two see that? The biggest issue is that there's no mention of the emotional component. And, you know, It's a regulatory difference. The name's terrible. Terrible. Yeah, I'm sorry.

It is. We don't have a deficit of attention. We have plenty of attention. We just focus it in the wrong place a lot of the time. Many of us, including most girls who are underdiagnosed, it's not hyperactive. It's inattentive. That's not in the name. And, you know, you could call it a disorder if you want to.

I think a more accurate term would be a brain difference. Yeah, a difference, a delay. I don't, it is one of the worst names. And it's, we were, we were doing active work researching for our, but we didn't know it was going to be a book at that time. But we were, I was trying to learn a lot, honestly, for the sake for our marriage. And when my son was diagnosed, we assumed, but, you know, when you're in school, you need the paperwork and the, like, all the, all the stuff.

Even get it hearing it when it was delivered to me. And in a house where ADHD is like, we talk about it, we celebrate it, it felt so heavy. And my son, it felt like we got this really awful medical diagnosis. You know, some really, it was going to be just like this really hard thing that he was going to suffer with the rest of his life. Like you have cancer. And it felt so heavy. And we got in the car and I was like, rewind, pause.

We know that this is going to be okay. We know that this is wrong. We know the amazing things your brain is going to do called Penn. And so when we went by the time I got home, he was like, let's party. You have a brand like mine. Let's do it. Let's figure this out. Like, what are you good at?

Where do we need help with? Like the reframe. Yeah, the diagnosis point is, we talked about it in our kids book. And there's like a picture. We, the biggest illustration we have in the book is the diagnosis. And okay, Becky's got it. It's like eight or nine pages in. It's the name.

And then the name is literally causing the child to cower into the corner. Because, yeah. So you see the girl. there she is. Because it made me, it definitely, it definitely hits you with three negative hammers, deficit hyperactivity and disorder. And, you know, it's so one of my friends

whose husband coaches basketball, actually, I just keep going to basketball metaphors, but the kid was diagnosed with ADHD. And she was like, oh my goodness. And one of the things I said to her, first of all, I just want to remind you, nothing has changed about your kid. Like your kid before the label and after,

it is no different, okay? So let's just remember that. She's like, that's helpful. And I said, let's think about it this way. Let's say, because I was talking to her and husband, there was a new player on the basketball team. And this kid tend to dribble a lot and, like, was often late to pass the ball. Okay.

And he came in and he said, you know, when someone told you, this kid has a passing disorder. They have a passing disorder. Right. Now, here's why that wouldn't be useful. Well, he's never going to learn how to pass. Well, he's not going to be a good player. Here's why that could be useful. Oh, he's a little late.

to pass sometimes. He's also a really freaking good dribbler. Okay. That's really interesting. How might I coach him differently? What might he need in a different way? By the way, this kid still wants to play basketball. Like, we have to help him, but this can actually help me think about how to coach him. And I feel like, I don't know if that resonates, right? And it kind of speaks to how a label can feel so heavy, or it can feel like this way of learning how to best empower your kid. Strength-based teaching, yeah. Yeah, absolutely.

And it's so funny, you go to athletics because we use a lot of athletic metaphors in our house as well. But as a parent, something I have learned, too, is, and I learned this from professionals, and I'm still working on it, is when the situation arises, like, does the homework, but doesn't turn it in like the frustrating thing that seems so easy we do go to like correction or i mean i'm sorry connection then correction and it's like this sounds this is this must be really hard to get a zero on that assignment so tell me like what do what do we need to what do we need to work on and so it it immediately even even with my husband it like the temperature comes down a little bit

and i'm not saying i never cracked like but just to be able to to like match that and the more teachers and coaches and like we're hearing a lot of feedback that like how especially middle school coaches it's like there's one way to do it and that's the only way the more they can understand like how these different brains work you're going to get so much more out of these kids and it's understandable for parents like the instinct is to be like this is your homework all you had to do is this just push it for and that that's like I feel like that's been the default for parents for a while and it's tough as for a parent very very difficult. and understandable. And the hard thing to do is to start with the connection. But the more you do it, the more comfortable you are. And there is a palpable difference in our son as well as in me when I think she's sort of the ringleader when it comes to this, when she, when she, you know, makes that connection happen. Yeah. And just to put a visual to that, okay, because I'm very logical. So when parents are like, but why do I need to do that? My parents didn't do that. Like, I don't want to explain it theoretically. Right. Like, sometimes it's actually helpful to be

like, here's why it's actually efficient. When your kid is overwhelmed with homework, there's the emotions about the homework, and then there's the academic ability to do the homework. Okay. The truth is, if emotions are overpowering us, none of us can access whatever our, quote, hard skills are. This is why I always think it's so funny when people talk about emotion stuff as soft skills. I was like, those are the hard skills.

Those are the hardest ones. Okay. And so let's say emotions and your son are overpowering him in his room. And you can actually visualize that. This is true for kids with. ADHD. This is definitely true for deeply feeling kids. They have intense feelings. It's a big bubble. Okay. What kids need with their big emotions more than anything else is containment. Because when a feeling has overpowered them, we can't make it go to zero. But if someone can give us a

little bit of a container, then we're not alone in it, which means someone's almost giving us a shell to put it in. They're like, I will help hold this for you. And if someone does that for you, Now instead of an emotion being 10 out of 10, maybe it's an 8 out of 10, right? And as soon as something's at an 8 out of 10, we can work with that. We can literally work with that. When something's out of 10 out of 10, where do you think it's right? Whether you think I wouldn't feel that way, whether you think it's ridiculous, the emotion is the truth. It's already here, people.

We can't fight it. It's already happened. And so offering connection is a form of containment. When you say to someone, I used to feel like that when I started my homework too. Oh, this problem feels too big to solve. Oh, you'd probably rather be doing 197 other things except for homework. And you're still trying to figure it out.

I get it. That stinks. You're kind of not just connecting. I think you're giving a container for someone. And they're like, great, I can put some of my feelings in. And maybe I'm left with 80%. And I think when you think about it that way, it not only becomes nice and relationship building,

you understand that it's actually also the most efficient logical whole thing to do. I mean, you explain that so perfectly. I didn't, I never knew why it worked, but I even think within our marriage, you know, like the stove gets left on or something like that. If I come at him screaming about how dangerous this is for our family, it's not going to, it's going to make him feel great shame. And like this is based on a true story. But if I say, hey this obviously not cool there must have been a lot going on when you were trying to cook dinner what like what are we going to do like that is a lot to manage what you just did it's the difference between a shame spiral and a support staircase we're workshopping I'm workshopping I'm trying to I'm trying to get my license

my coaching license no he's not so think about no no no no think about so the spiral the shame spiral everybody knows about the support staircases something goes wrong and Kim says to me, man, I'm sorry that must be hard. And instead of me spiraling downward, I feel the love, I feel the connection. And it actually causes me. And I think it causes some other people to say, man, thank you for feeling this way. I'm going to work my butt off to try to keep this from happening again. I always tell people, when you do something that you're not proud of, there's always a part of you that wants to feel defensive. And there's a part of you that wants to own it. That's true with any conflict. Like there's a part of us that's like, man, I wish I put the stove

off and there's a part of us that's like, there's nothing I could have done. It's not my fault, right? Whatever the conflict is. Here's the interesting thing about internal conflict. As soon as anyone in your life owns one part of the conflict, you have to own the other. Meaning, as soon as you say to someone, you really shouldn't have done that, like, what's wrong with you? They're like, all right, so you've taken the part of me that would feel responsible. So now the only thing I'm left with is the part of me that's like, I do everything around this house, whatever it is. And then, which makes the other person go further. So when you say to someone, I'm sure that's not what you wanted either, right?

You're not, you're actually allowing them to also say, like, yeah, I feel bad, right? So, and we see this in couples all the time. Like, you know this. As soon as someone's like, I don't want to go to your parents for the holidays, you're like, I do, but you're like, I don't even like my parents. I don't. Why am I saying that? Because they're, and as soon as someone's like, let's go to your family, you're like, nah. Right?

So I think it's powerful. realize, again, if we're trying to be long-term focus with our kids, we don't want them to feel shame. Ironically, shame gets in the way of accountability. How counterproductive. But the more you own the you should have, the more you take away their ability to reflect on, well, what could I have done differently? What would I have needed? And that makes everyone more frustrated. Do we send you the invoice, like, for the free therapy we're getting right now? Like, what's my co-pay? You know what? Kim, I, truly, this is the best learning experience. I learned so much from you guys in the way that you approach things. So, okay. So Penn, the last time we were together, you said something to me that I want to,

because I think it's related to this conversation. You said the term deeply feeling kid or that framework was another layer to you understanding yourself. So can you say more about that? Yeah. I mean, it was, so it was the best explanation to the emotional dysregulation component of ADHD. it was three really simple words. And I heard it on TikTok. I forwarded him one of your videos. Yeah, she sent me the video. And I don't even know if she was doing it for me.

I think it's possible she was trying to help explain our own child, who was also a deeply feeling kid. But I was deeply feeling after hearing your thing about deeply feeling kid, I had to kind of sit back and let it wash over me that this is, not only is this like the perfect explanation, but it's also non-negative. It's not crybaby. It's not easily upset. I was called a crybaby by everyone who I knew, including some teachers. Oh, Penn, I'm so, I am, that it's a term. I haven't actually heard that term in so long. I don't know why I think about drama queen, dramatic, disproportionate, overreacting, but you're right. Cry baby.

It's a tough one. Yeah. So, oh. And I'm sorry. I was a teenager when I got called that because I was still feeling those feelings. I was, so I was late to, to the emotional regulation because of ADHD. I went through puberty when I was like 32. I was like a really, that's not true. I was, but I was like in high school, mid high school when I finally hit my growth spurt. So like all of those things at the same time made life difficult for me. That delay made it tough.

If I had heard deeply feeling kid as a child, I think it acknowledges. that, yeah, I get overwhelmed sometimes, but also, like, that's a skill to be able to feel deeply. Yes. And, you know, two things. Number one, I think a kid's deepest fear is actually being un-understandable. It's the worst feeling. You almost have this existential crisis as a kid, like these sensations in my body that feel so intense. If no one believes me, they think I'm overreacting. Like, there's almost like, do I exist? Am I real? Are these things real? Like, it's an awful feeling. So sometimes terms or questions, it's like, oh, like the idea that someone or a term could understand me is so relieving, right? And so that's number one.

And number two, I'm asked all the time. And what you said, Penn, really struck a nerve. Dr. Becky, your deeply healing kid framework, that course, whatever it is, is that going to help my kid grow out of this? And I'm like, oh, my goodness, I hope not. That will help your kid harness everything that grow out. I don't wish that for any child. harness. Let's do that. And Penn knowing you, like, and I think about what you're able to do and what you can notice. And I think so many of the best comedians, the situational comedians are all deeply

feeling kids. They notice things. No one else has ever put words to or notice. But when they name them, you're like, oh my goodness, you can have music around it and song and play around with things. I don't know anyone who could do that, who probably wasn't, isn't a deeply feeling person. Yeah. I mean, like, think about the sort of building blocks of entertainment. It's, yes and yes and when you get excited about something yes and also this and also this and you let your brain kind of receive it because you're you're caught in this euphoria of creativity it's the opposite of no but which is where we live a fair amount of our lives as well but um yeah i think like i definitely um i found solace in middle school and high school in theater arts and in creativity

because i think it was a lot of other people that were similar to me and probably all had similar brains. Yes. So let's move from this to the practical and concrete. Like what are some of the things you've done in your home, in your relationships, whether your marriage or with your kid, knowing, again, this framework, ADHD, deeply feeling kid, all of it together. What are some of the things that have helped? Like, what are some of the things that you've tried? I'm curious, like, some of the rhythms you guys have. It's interesting because we have two children, and my daughter's now a freshman in college

and very, like, oldest daughter stereotype, like high achieving, straight A, Taipei, did everything herself, met every milestone early, like, you know. So then when we had just like a very giggly, happy, normal child who was just, you know, normal, it sort of rocked, like, what expectations were. So I think holistically, very early, we had to say there are a lot of different paths to this.

So we removed, like, what right looks like. Does that make sense? Like, we, there's no one right way to get through school. There's no what, like, you're, let's find out where you're awesome. So that's the next thing we do is for both my husband. And I think we make this a family practice is that when we see, especially my son, doing something that's just amazing that only his brain can do. because he has the same brain he does.

He started a sports blog. And so he has a substack where he's writing all about. And he is so fast and the things he notices about his favorite team. And he's so prolific. And I just like, you know, no, there's not a lot of 15-year-olds who can do that and do that that quickly. And so we work to find out where he's killing it to the point where, yes, he's in basketball, but he is a little late to grow just like his dad.

So he's now like an improv comedy. And he has found, so all that spontaneity, the ADHD has given him, like, it is rewarded an improv, right? Like, you are supposed to be spontaneous. Yes. So we just have had to really work, but it's hard because we live in a community that worships basketball. We live in the Raleigh area.

And this is like, this is where, you know. So this is. Go blue devils, you know. You know, we were getting along just fine. This was, we were off to a really good start here. I never pretended to be someone I'm not, so I'm not going to start today. Same here. Same here.

But it is strange to like deprioritize basketball. You were, I say this to people who live in New York or California. I'm like, you don't understand. The town shuts down when like, call it. It is. Yeah. Yeah. So we've just had to set an example and say like, no, there's more than one way to do this.

There's more than one way to do this. And internal systems, like we have a hamper at the bottom of the stairs. all the crap goes that I can't deal with because I cannot deal with the crap and that you know you look for your crap in one spot. We have a pretty strict, like, we just have to be very strict about like cleaning things, setting along. We have a thousand alarms. We have a big, a massive talent, digital calendar on our countertop where every morning it's your first stop. Yeah. So just a lot of that. Yeah, he has some nighttime preps that he does just to make sure that the morning isn't a total disaster when he wakes up. It's all like, it's all upstream solutions, right? Things that's

Got the problem off before it arises. A hundred percent. You know, something I've shifted from where, you know, in some of these systems, kids with ADHD without, like a lot of kids need these things, right? Like, they need systems. We all need rhythms. And one of the things I used to have with my kid is a list that I made sure was their handwriting.

And it said something like things to do for tomorrow. Okay. But you know what a shift I made? And I swear it's changed the way my kids approach these habits at night to set themselves up. I will take care of my tomorrow self-bye. That's what the top of the list says. And it's become kind of like anything else in your family, like this eye rolly, my mom is so cheesy, like so cringe, like taking care of my tomorrow's self, yeah, you know, and I'm like, fine, I'll take cringe any day if it sets you up for success. Like give it. I don't care. But it's interesting. Like, oh, like my oldest pack snacks for school before he has football, right? And so he is taking care of his tomorrow self. What a horrible thing to be rushed at the end, you know, right before you leave. You're like, I don't have my snacks. And that little shift. And that little shift. also makes me think about what you're saying.

Like, can we do even these systems from a strength-based? I'm not going to remember this, so I have to do it the night before. Yeah. Oh, I like that. Tomorrow is that smart. Like, what I would do, because I'm cheeky is I would add, like, really fun ways I'd take care of myself, like, eat some candy or, you know, play and hour of video games after my homework's done.

Because those are ways that I think we can take care of ourselves as well. It's so funny. But I think this is going to, we're going to implement this in our house because, My son, he's very funny. He is famous for saying, that's a problem for tomorrow's PC. Like, Penn Charles will do that. That's a problem for tomorrow, Penn Charles. Like, that's not my problem right now.

So I like this language. Yeah, well, I use it too. Like, I don't know about you, but for coffee in the morning, sometimes I'm like, oh, do I set it up the night before? But when I shift to, hold on, like tomorrow, Becky is going to be so grateful to right now, Becky, that she just gets to like have hot coffee. That's so nice to, I like, I like, I. such a nice thing to do. And then I feel like I'm doing it from a different place, which affects

my energy differently. The other thing I wanted to say, and I'm curious how to expand on this more with improv versus maybe other things that aren't as natural, ADHD or any framework in some ways, like every kid has certain environments that are easier for them and harder for them. And I think one of the things you've figured out with your son is like it's important for kids who have ADHD so much of the academic world is easier for kids who are, like your daughter, linear, naturally, maybe organize their executive function comes a little more naturally. They learn it once. They extend to everywhere else versus I kind of have to learn it in all the scenarios each time. But it's so interesting for me to think about parents, like you saying, okay, if that's true,

he's going to have to figure that out and we'll help him. And it's really important to find an environment where he feels like, this does come easily to me. I'm like good at this naturally. right yeah there are some stereotypical environments inside of environments that are that are good ideas for ADHD for most ADHD kids and adults remember now it's all different right there's ADHD gets along well OCD anxiety autism all that stuff it's so not every ADHD is the same in fact you can argue each one is different overwhelmingly if you're in college or you're in a high school in a big class and you're an ADHD student if you sit in the front it makes a difference for for the better most of the time sometimes there's there's people who the anxiety takes

over but um like that's one of the things that i say to to PC and that I said to myself when I was going to high school so there there are like there are there are such specific strong like places that'll set you up for success if you have ADHD and a really great thing to do is for a parent to reach out to a teacher with this specific question when it comes to a day Right? Even if there's a really tough class, if you're an ADHD kid that's on medication who gets really tired and zonked out by the time that school is over, is there a way that you can shift that class to the morning? There are a lot of ways to do it. I would say that for the most part, if you are a parent who asks a teacher a direct question like that instead of what do we do, the path to a solution is a lot easier. I will also say to your question about finding community within community, we got a suggestion that we were doing, you know, all these like book signings and everything. And a parent actually had the most brilliant idea that I loved because also something I didn't

realize is that the shame that the ADHDers will feel, that really does damage self-confidence, especially teens. And so they, you know, this book, ADHD is awesome. So they have started their own sort of ADHD is awesome for their particular kid. And like when they see their kid doing something amazing or that they enjoy, that they love, that they have a lot of interest in, like they kind of write about that and they post it in a family aware that the kids see it. I'm totally going to steal that too because I think throughout the day,

a lot of ADHD kids hear over and over again how not awesome they are in the school. So I just think that when we find, that that thing that lights them up like we just have to follow it even if i don't understand anything about improv comedy i just like got on the google machine and figure that out so um yeah thinking about the parent who has kids younger than yours who's maybe going through an evaluation process it was or just got you know that ADHD label what is something like you would tell them what is something you'd want them to know the parent or the kid let's start with the parent and then maybe the kid let's do both yeah um

Don't be scared of this. In fact, opposite. This is going to take a lot of your fears away, your fears of the unknown. When you approach this with your kid, make sure and know that all of the issues that your child may be having, whether it's like the traditional kind of lack of focus, hyperactivity, behavioral issues. That same brain is capable of doing things that a neurotypical person cannot do. There are studies. We are more creative. We are more spontaneous.

We come up with creative solutions to problems in an efficient way that others cannot. But we live in a world that was mostly made for a neurotypical human being. And so this is a, the understanding is a path to adapting and excelling. Beautiful. What about to a kid? You're not alone. you are not alone and there is nothing inherently wrong with you. You have a really cool brain.

I think, like, if you'll let us try to explain some of it to you and you understand it, there's some work that you can do that can sometimes even be fun to make the most of this brain. So let's use that as a bridge to your book. All you can be with ADHD. What happened in your house between the two of you that are like, let's do this? Was there a moment? So we are our first book, ADHD is awesome. We tried to write it for the ADHD brains.

So there's a lot of graphics and a lot of callouts and all that stuff. And we had the opportunity to go to a lot of, you know, book signings. You had to promote a book. So we went all these book signings. And there would be so many kids there. And they had their highlighters and they had their post-it notes. And they were trying, God bless them, to read it. But really, it wasn't, it wasn't meant for an eight-year-old to read, right?

It was meant for their parents to read. And so it came because they literally said, like, you have to make a book for us. So it was just the biggest no-brainer. And I would love to do, you know, a teen, like a tween adaptation as well. But, yeah, it was just, it was so much fun. And it's so much, and a children's book, I still have all my kids' children's books. I love a book. I love that time.

Yeah. So it was so much fun. What page, what line, was there something in it that, like, you each have a favorite part? They're like, oh, I just love that when we get there. There is, you know, you have it all memorized because you've read it out lots many times, but there is, there's a moment where, you know, you have to acknowledge the hard stuff that comes with, with this. And so there's a moment where, you know, the narrator sort of calling out. Yeah, it can be normal.

I've said to myself, or it can be tough. I've said to myself, why can't I be normal like everyone else? sometimes we're forgetful. We interrupt friends and makes us forgetful. And, you know, bits and pieces about how you can get sad and even frustrated and sometimes mad. And then right after that, there's a page that says, does this sound familiar? The examples I gave. If you answer yes, you are so very brave.

And that's my favorite. And I have to say, when he read that out loud to the kids and they were all jumping, like, does this sound like me? And they were jumping up or down. Like there was pride, but there was like an acknowledgement of like, oh, my God, you know that? Like, you know that too. You know what that feels like. So seeing that read out loud and then just being able to tell them how brave they are for acknowledging it, like my mom's heart just like melted into pieces. And that goes back to like the pain isn't the thing. It's feeling like nobody understands the thing or you're alone in the thing. Like,

you know, we can't change the hard, but we can change the alone. And I think in the book, you change the alone, right? And you, and obviously there's strengths too, but like anything, there's hard parts and like if if we're afraid to name what's hard to our kids they get really freaked out because they're like oh forget me feeling like this hard i guess this is just bad because my parents only avoid what's bad and dangerous right then it makes it feel worse and in the book they're immediately after there's sort of a reward um you know it's not we're not sitting in that suck for for too long it's okay you admitted you did this now let's hear about the awesome stuff and they we get right and we then we include sharks and ninjas and other things that

people from you know at ADHD tend to like that's right just like you were saying it's it's increasingly hard in this world to me to have something like two things are true like the answer to most things are that two things are true it's hard and it's amazing right this is easy that's hard and when you can kind of name both without making one more powerful or canceling of the other like I think it speaks to our body like their bodies know that already this is hard and this is amazing Like, oh, someone can finally name that to me. And I think your book really, really does that. So beautiful.

Thank you. Yeah. All right. We're going to do a little rapid fire to end. You ready? Yeah, yeah. That's right. That's right.

That's right. Have a sip of water. Okay. Finish the sentence. ADHD has taught me. ADHD has taught me patience. Ooh. Yeah.

Let's go with that. I've heard it's a virtue. I'm working on finding it. But if people say that. I don't currently possess it. It's a muscle I'm trying to do. Yeah, 100%. That's the best of gets.

Something around ADHD or deeply feelingness that I've stopped apologizing for is... Fidgeting. It's what your body needs. You burn calories a day. Like, you can try as hard as you want to, but it's the other option from me fidgeting is much worse. Like, I probably would blow a gasket. So, yeah, I've just stopped. It's just what I do.

Okay. Now for Kim, then I'm going to ask a version, Penn to you. Kim, an ADHD strength I see in my son is... His creativity and his ability to make it comedy. He spots things in this world and makes them so funny, and I don't know another brain that could do that. And Penn, an ADHD strength that shows up in my parenting is. I think making things fun.

I think it's important for things to be fun for especially younger children. And sometimes that's disguised in gamification and in, you know, taking a chore and making it more enjoyable. And I think that my ADHD creativity has helped with that. Amazing. Okay, last one. The thing most people misunderstand about ADHD is that it's just an, an, executive functioning disorder and that it has nothing to do with your emotions. I think most parents are not ready for that when they take their kid in. I would also say most parents don't know it has

nothing to do with your academic ability. Yeah. It is separate from that. They are not, they're not behind or slow. They have been, there's just a delay in how this is, like how they're actually processing it. You can get all A's and have ADHD. Yeah. You know, something just crystallized for me that, what you said, kind of what you just said that it's not just executive function. I get this question all the time. Your deeply feeling kid framework, I don't know if that's for me because my kid is ADHD. Or my kid's a deeply feeling kid. So does that mean they don't have ADHD?

And it's interesting. It's like I think what you're saying is like these, they're overlapping, right? And like both both can be true. And often maybe with the ADHD part, people are explained it in a way with the emotionality, the deeply feeling this isn't always included. So it feels like an either or. but but when you really think about a kid beyond any label like often often those things kind of come together you said it better than I would yeah anything we didn't cover today anything you're like I just want parents listening to

this to know whether it's about themselves or their kids what what else do we want to end on I mean I guess just like celebrate those moments when your child is truly happy and feeling the flow as someone with ADHD like I know what my son's happiest moment ever was and I like to bring it up all the time it was the one time that Duke in North Carolina played in the final four. And it hasn't happened before. It'll never happen again. It was Coach Kay's last game. And Carolina beat Duke and my son took his shirt off and waved it like a helicopter

because of the P.D. Pablo song. And I'm sorry, have I hit a nerve? Do you like to test? Is this like a testing emotion regulation live situation? Is that what you do to people? That's what you're known for at the end. You're just like, let me see how much I can trigger you and how you react. It was really an attempt to try to just wrap this up the one.

way I really wanted it to. And Dr. Becky, taking deep breast in her chair, it really is because I love her. It's kind of what I wanted. I mean, really. Well, this has been real. I'm going to. Never wanted to do you guys.

I don't even know if I'm going to air this episode. No, this is the best. And really, the way you bring together the truth, naming hard things, naming amazing things, desaming humor. Like, that all can be part of one. dance. And I just think it's a magical combination. And I love talking to you guys. I love knowing you. And I really, really love this book. And I know it's going to help so many

families. So thank you. Well, you've done a lot for us, a lot for me personally. And at meeting you a couple of months ago was like meeting, um, Cooper Flag. It was like meeting like meeting like I like that. I will take that. Meeting a superstar that I was like nervous to talk to. Yeah. Well, thank you. More soon. Thanks, guys. Thank you. I hope you got as much from that conversation as I did. I hope you realize that ADHD doesn't have to be thought of as a disorder. It can be a framework for understanding your kid, their strengths, their struggles, and you can go from there. Two, don't forget, ADHD is often about relationship with emotions and emotionality and so many of those kids are deeply feeling in addition to the things we often

hear about. Planning, executive function, attention. Let's end the way we always do. Place your feet on the ground and a hand on your heart and let's remind ourselves even as we struggle on the outside we remain good inside i'll see you soon