Good Inside with Dr. Becky - How to Encourage Independent Play With Lizzie Assa

Episode Date: August 9, 2022

Independent play isn’t just for our kids. It’s for us, too. Let’s be real: We all need a break from 24/7 caregiving to show up as the parents we want to be. But how do you actually help kids feel comfortable and confident playing alone—not to mention reduce your own guilt about not joining in? Lizzie Assa, the play expert behind the Workspace for Children, joins Dr. Becky on the podcast this week to discuss all things independent play. The two reframe what independent play means and explain why it looks different for every kid. Then, they model simple, actionable strategies to turn “quiet time” into a reality in your home (yes, really). You’ll end the episode with tons of creative ideas for building your child’s independence and a deeper understanding of your own relationship to imagination, too. For more, visit The Workspace for Children and use the discount code PLAY for 20% off of the Quiet Time and Independent Play Course here: https://www.workspaceforchildren.com Join Good Inside Membership: https://bit.ly/3cqgG2A Follow Dr. Becky on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/drbeckyatgoodinside Sign up for our weekly email, Good Insider: https://www.goodinside.com/newsletter Order Dr. Becky's book, Good Inside: A Guide to Becoming the Parent You Want to Be, at goodinside.com/book or wherever you order your books. For a full transcript of the episode, go to goodinside.com/podcast

You're listening to Good Inside with Dr. Becky. I'm so excited to share today's guest with you, because we're talking about a topic that so many of you have asked about. My guest is parenting strategist, play, expert, and mom of three, Lizzy Assa. And in today's episode, Lizzy and I talk all about independent play. Why to do it? How to do it? And all of the benefits that come along with it for you and your child. With all that in mind, let's jump in. Hey Sabrina. Hey. So I've been thinking about toys recently. I don't want the toy to do that much of the work. I want the toy to inspire my

kid to do the work because actually the toys that get really busy and do that much of the work. I want the toy to inspire my kid to do the work. Because actually the toys that get really busy and do a lot of things, kids actually lose interest in so quickly. Oh, totally. There's certain toys that my kids have just played with throughout the years. I have a six year old and a three year old.

Like what? So I have these wooden blocks from Melissa and Doug. They're super simple. Just plain wooden, no color. And my kids love them. They're always building castles or like a dinosaur layer. And then my oldest will tell my youngest to like decorate them after he's built this crazy cool structure.

My go-to's are Melissa and Doug too. I feel like we have this ice cream scooper thing that my kids use when they were two. And then they used again when they were developing better fine motor skills. And then for my kind of four year old, my seven year old still using it in imaginative play. I really only like talking about items and brands

that we actually use in our own home and Melissa and Doug. I just don't know if there's any other brand I feel so good about naming the way that their toys actually inspire creativity and open-ended screen-free child-led play. It's just unmatched. And like what's honestly so exciting is to be able to offer everyone listening to this podcast. 20% off. Visit MelissaAndUg.com and use code Drbecky20DRBEC-20 for 20% off your order. Melissa and Doug, timeless toys, endless possibilities.

Hi, I'm Dr. Becky, and this is Good Inside. I'm a clinical psychologist and mom of three on a mission to rethink the way we raise our children. I love translating deep thoughts about parenting into practical, actionable strategies that you can use in your home right away. One of my core beliefs is that we are all doing the best we can with the resources we have available to us in that moment. So even as we struggle and even as we are having a hard time on the outside we remain good inside. I am so excited to have Lizzy Asa on the show today.

And I think you're all gonna be really, really excited about this episode because it's all about independent play. And I don't know if I've gotten as many voicemails about anything as I have about the topic of independent play. And if all of you are wondering, are a Dr. Becky, then why did you not put this episode

out sooner? It's because I wanted to have truly the person I trust most in talking about this issue and breaking it down into manageable parts. And today is the day that Lizzie and I could coordinate our schedules. And so this is an episode you're gonna wanna listen to over and over. I'm not even gonna say you're gonna wanna listen to the whole episode because obviously yes, and over and over. And I am just so excited to talk about this important topic. So Lizzy, welcome. Thank you. I'm really happy to be here.

I can't wait to chat about this. It is absolutely my mission to simplify independent play for parents Because we all need a break from that 24-7 loop of parenting and independent play does just that I mean, I don't know if I do. I love just like I just love every 24 hour moment Like even the two am you know, but for everyone else out there This is to be really I'm 100% joking. So let's start. Lizzie, tell everyone a little bit about who you are and the things that interest you. Sure. So my name is Lizzie. I am the founder and creator of the Workspace for Children.

And as I said, it's my really my mission to simplify independent play so that parents can get a break. Because we all know that when we've had a break to get time back for ourselves, we can show up as a more present version of ourselves and parent the way we really want to be a parent. And further, we can also, we all know that when we're present, our kids' behavior is better, our behavior is better,

and life in general just feels better. Because I know you pretty well, can you just add on your, I really mean it's like your personal in terms of motherhood and your professional credentials, really, that give you such a holistic picture around the topic. Sure. So I am a mom of three big kids. They are nine, 12 and 14 now, and I am also a former early childhood New York City teacher. I got my masters from the Bank Street School many, many years ago and had the opportunity to teach in some of the best New York City preschools where I really learned the value of true play-based learning.

And I say true play-based learning because I think it's really a buzz word that gets mistaken for a lot of other things. Yeah. So let's jump into it. And I know we're gonna get into something else later, but let me say for everyone listening, because this is often someone's question,

is it too late? No. Your kid is two, your kid is four, your kid is 10, and you're thinking, okay, maybe I missed the boat, we're gonna get into the how of doing this at any age, but let me say from the start, it is not too late to build the skill. Let's start with the why, why, maybe even the what,

what is independent play? What does maybe even the what, what does independent play, what does that even mean? And why does it matter? Independent play is really about teaching your child to learn about themselves. So independent play is the opportunity for everyone to take a break and really learn about who they are. It's a really interesting way of defining it. I mean, because I think when we think about independent play, as someone said, Dr. Becky, it's independent play. I'd be more concrete, but I love your definition so much more. Because anytime we're doing something new, we have to like really understand what it is and the motivation. Anytime we're doing something new, we have to really understand what it is in the motivation. In independent play, your child really has the opportunity to learn about themselves.

That's just so amazing. And I just want to say, you know, so many people, even as adults, and to your point of it's never too late, even adults are still learning how to play. And so you can always start where you are, whether you have a newborn baby, or five year olds, or like you said, a 10 year olds, everyone can learn how to bring back more play into their lives because I think of independent play as more of a mindset. So someone might, you know, when we say independent play,

you might picture a small child playing with wooden blocks in the playroom and think, well, my kid's never going to do that. That's not who my kid is. And if that's not who your kid is, then you're right. That's not how your kid should play independently. Your child is unique. An independent play is the opportunity for you and for them to figure out what makes them tick. So independent play for your child might be what makes them tick. So independent play for your child might be sitting in the grass

poking around looking for bugs or maybe you have a child who's really into sports and independent play for them might be playing basketball alone in the driveway while they hone their skill or work out whatever happened to them that day at school.

It doesn't have to just be wooden blocks or fancy sensory stations. And you've used this term self-directed. It's self-directed play. What's the opposite of that, just so people can understand that? So the opposite of self-directed play is when you are, when children are playing someone else's ideas. So say your child says, Mommy, play with me and you start acting out the characters or you start saying here and using it as a teaching moment and teaching your child how to build with blocks. Independent play is the opposite of that because independent play children are using their

own experience and their own ideas and implementing them. They are also having the opportunity for that building to fall down and there's no grown up there to say, hey honey, let me fix that for you. Or don't worry, that's not a big deal. They have that independent time to get upset, decide how long it's going to take them to stay upset and work through it, and decide what they're going to do next. Maybe they are going to be rebuilt, maybe they're not. But the point is it came from them.

Amazing. And why does this matter so much? Like why does this help? Why is this important? I am a huge believer that small changes build big habits and independent play, carving out time for independent play is one of those small changes you can make in your life today. Right now, that will have huge impacts and change moving forward into the future because not only is it, like I said, gonna give you back time as an adult to fill your own need without someone intruding on every thought and bite you take.

But it's also going to give your child the opportunity to come up with their own ideas and execute them and it gives them the opportunity to build a world that they can control. It gives them the time and space to make sense of the world around them or who they are or what's happening. It's like their scratch pad or sandbox to just work things out. Absolutely. Absolutely. And one of the things I love about the way you talk about independent plays is something

you just said. And just for everyone here listening, I think it's so important. This is really a win-win. Like independent play is so important for your kid. And independent play by your kid is so important for you as a parent. Right? And if you're thinking, is that, you know, might not fulfilling my parental duty? Or what about when my kid says, but, but mom, I don't know what to do with these

books, or I don't know what to do with these trucks, or I don't have any ideas, or you worked all weekend. Now you will play with me when I want to play with you. We'll get into all those kind of exact moments, but just rest assured for you to show up as the parent and person you want to be. You cannot continually deplete yourself. And I think so many parents we get into this com com com com comcom, com, com, react. It's the build up of not having five, 10, 15, 30 minute times in a day, where you're basically able to say, no one is asking and taking from me. And my kids don't ask and take from me because they're bad people, they're kids. But like, I'm a human being and I need and I deserve periods of my day

where I am not acting as an active caregiver. Right? Absolutely. And that's exactly what independent play does. And it's cyclical because when you as mom have had, even if it was just 15 minutes to breathe, you're going to come back to the table, a completely different parent. And a different person to your partner, you're going to show up differently there, differently at work. And it's really just about taking that time for yourself.

An independent play is great because you can feel good about it. You know, I remember many years ago, right, when I just had one child and I was probably about two. And I remember getting into a thing with my husband as a lot of us do with our partners. And it was some version of like, I don't even understand how you sit on the couch. Like I have never sat on the couch. Like, and, you know, and you need to, don't you see this? And what about this? And our son wants to do this and can't,

you do this with him. And it was a really interesting reversal. It was some combination of my own therapist and my husband saying, like, it doesn't have to be either or, but it's a powerful reframe Becky, for you to think, maybe your problem is that you don't sit on the couch.

Like, maybe your husband doesn't have a problem. Maybe your problem is that you need to sit on the couch. Like maybe your husband doesn't have a problem. Maybe your problem is that you need to be more like him. And it made me think about how important it was to build my son's independent play skill, because if he could play by himself for 10 minutes, or we could work up, and we'll get to this work up to 10 minutes, so I think this is a huge thing I see with families too,

is they try at first to build the entire skill instead of the steps. And there was a day where I remember sitting on the couch and looking at my husband and I was like, you know what? There's something to this. Like there's something to saying, I have time to sit on a couch. Forget you not sitting on the couch, now we're on the couch together. Like this is kind of nice. It really is. And it's also life changing for everyone involved. The entire family unit. So this is super important for us.

And I really mean this. Sometimes as a parent, even if something wasn't great for our kids but wasn't dangerous, just knowing something is good for us is enough to make a change in your family. I really think we don't remind ourselves of that enough. And this is critical to your kids. Because yes, you're seeing them quote play and play is so valuable. But even if you're someone who's in a family

where you say, yeah, like the idea that play is valuable is just not natural to me. Like it doesn't seem like a good use of time. If you want your 16 year old to come to you one day and say, you know what, I had the best idea for the essay assignment I have. And he wears my idea and then I sat down and then I wrote an outline and then I researched and then I actually changed course and then actually I realized that wasn't the best thing and I did something else. Do you know where that skill comes?

That looks like an academic skill, not from a classroom. That comes from independent play where a person has practiced over and over, noticing their own ideas. Thinking those ideas are valuable. Putting those valuable ideas into action and iterating. That is a skill from independent play. I mean, that is so much yes. That is so much yes because when children have this unstructured time

to work on their own ideas without noise from someone else, that's when they feel safe to take risks, to rework ideas, and to be patient with themselves. I mean, even it plays into even sibling relationships and dynamics. When you have the younger child who's always being upstaged by the older child or many of the parents

I work with say, but I don't want my older one always bulldozing the younger one. Well, this is a great opportunity for your younger one to be coming up with their own ideas and leading their own play and those are skills they're going to take into back into that sibling relationship of, hey, I have a great idea. As a next step, and this is something, I think you and I are so similar about, we're like, okay, so this is the what, this is the why, we know we can't end there. Like, we all need the how, let's break it down. So, assume someone listening is rallying around this,

and they might even be embarrassed and say, oh, Dr. Becky and Lizzie won't believe it. Like, my kid won't even do this for one second. So talk to that shame. And can you speak to also some of the first steps? Yes. So the first step is to recognize that play looks different for each unique child.

So stop before you even think to yourself, I'm going to try this. I'm going to do this. I want you to really think about who your child is as an individual, not who the preschool teacher said they should be or what they should be interested in, or not who you thought they were going to be when they were in your belly, but who are they really, and what actually sparks their interest? Because you might have a child who's not going to sit quietly and play with blocks, but they love the garbage truck.

And they are going to look out the window at the garbage truck. And so I'm going to say, hey, start with that. Put a little stool in front of the window. Put a toy truck there. And make sure they're there every time the garbage truck shows up. That's going to spark, you're going to use who they are, what their strengths and interests are, and build from there. So the starting point is really looking internally to your family.

There's no step on Google or on your site even. The first step is really centering yourself and you and your child. And so what is my child interested in? I go on Instagram and I see these pictures of some kid in their room for five hours just, you know, playing with a single wooden square. Yeah, right. And just everyone knows, like, my children do not do that, ever, not, no, okay? But I see that, and that's one version. But it could be, my kid is interested in trucks, or my kid loves, what about a kid like climbing? Like something very, yes.

So I do call that the active kind of child who plays, and there are some really great ways. So independent play is independent, right? You're not with them, you're not on top of them, and that can feel really great ways. So independent play is independent, right? You're not with them, you're not on top of them, and that can feel really tricky for parents who have a climber and that's what really is. So you're going to first make sure your child has that active time outside to connect with who they are, right?

But then you're gonna teach them. You can take really simple things, like a role of masking tape and put a long lines, long complicated lines on the floor with them and let them balance on those lines. Or even better, I like to teach children how to use their toys to act as them. So they might teach their toy how to climb the climber that they just built or tell the story of themselves at the playground climbing or doing the things that maybe aren't so safe in the apartment or in the home but they can act that out with their toys.

Love that. Okay, so notice your child's interest. Like we are, this is a strength kind of based approach. Right. And I do think that's such a powerful reframe because right now if you're thinking my kid really struggles to play independently, it's so easy to look at that as a weakness or as a shortcoming. And to just say, okay, wait, my kid has interests. Like my kid is interested in things and that's where we're gonna start. Your child comes into the world

inherently knowing how to play. It is the parents, the well-meaning parents, who start to make noise and get in their way. So your infant, actually, and yes, it's very important to talk and stimulate and interact with your infant, but I know you're probably already doing that.

So it's just as crucial to allow your baby time to stare at the window and watch the shadows and see themselves in the mirror or spend those few extra minutes on a blanket or in their crib. That's where they start building those foundational skills. And it takes a lot of pressure off you as a mom to know, you don't have to fill the silence every second. Yes. You know, I think there's so much guidance out there, right? Talk to your child, engage with your child, connect with your child. And I think for some of us, and I remember being like this early on too, we almost go to the other extreme, right? And I think for some of us, and I remember being like this early on too, we almost go to the other extreme, right?

And I think every parent here, if you're listening to this, I just know you're a parent with such intentionality. It almost had some levity to say like, oh, do I want to really give myself permission to come a little bit back toward the middle? Like, maybe it's not the extra words and engagement and connection from me, my child needs. Maybe it's a little bit less of that to give them more space. And I think we all know also that it's from internalizing and really taking in that we have support that we feel sturdy on our own,

or at least some of the times, an independent play, is that opportunity for our kids to have a little bit more space and that is so, so important. So, okay. So, someone listening, I said, okay, I kind of know, let's say it's my kid is really interested in kind of kitchens and, you know, kind of stuff like that and food and pretend play in that way. They always ask me to play with them.

We are at zero minutes. Lizzie, we are at zero. Like what is the next step they could do if they want to institute some type of independent play routine? With their child with an interest in the kitchen, which makes sense because that is often times the center of the home and what they see their parent or caregiver doing all the time.

So first thing you're going to do is connect with them around their interest. Sit down with them and ask them, what do you love about the kitchen? What do you know about the kitchen? Write down their words even if they can't read. It doesn't matter. It's just putting your value on their thoughts and interests where they have the opportunity to become the expert. So first, you're just going to ask them and notice, I noticed this when you were in the kitchen, you were so interested when I was pouring the water. I saw you watching. Would you like an opportunity to try that?

Now you maybe your child is going to love a small sensory bin with some water and some pouring. Now, if you're listening and you're like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, I don't wanna mess. You can take a shallow under the bed bin, put it down on a towel, and just put three tiny cups of water and say, yes, let them pour back and forth with that.

Give them the kitchen tools. Give them an apple and let them wash it, eat it. Maybe next they're gonna work towards cutting it and preparing it, but they're gonna learn to see themselves as the expert using those tools. Hey, so I wanna let you in on something that's kind of counterintuitive about parenting. The most impactful way we can change our parenting actually doesn't

involve learning any new parenting strategies. The most impactful way we can change our parenting is by giving ourselves more resources so we can show up as sturdier so we can show up as calm amidst the inevitable chaos. It's what our kids need from us more than anything else. This is why I'm doing my mom rage workshop again. I'm doing it again because it is one of my most popular ones to date. It's coming up July 19th, but no worries if you can't make it live. It'll be available as a recording for whenever you

have the time. I promise it's really the best investment we can make not only in ourselves, but also in our kids. Can't wait to see you there at GoodInside.com. Okay, let's say someone's listening and they're thinking, my three-year-old daughter loves animals, loves animals. I know that. That's an interest. And right right now her independent play is zero

zero minutes. So what comes next? Okay, so if you have a little one who loves animals they're probably asking you to constantly play puppy or pretend to be the lion and that's really exhausting and can be so hard as a parent, right? Like you want to support their interests, but you don't want to play lions, right? And you want them to play independently. So naturally, you're probably going to have, you know, all the animal books and you've probably taken them to the zoo. You've done all those things, but now we want to use those interests to build independent play. So when you come back from the zoo, instead

of being one and done great, now you're going to go into to quiet time and you are going to put out her animal toys, put out a few magnetic tiles, just simplify. Don't you don't need to play room, you don't need literally put down a beach towel and on it put a bunch of magnetiles and a bunch of animal toys and maybe her favorite zoo book. And then step back and watch. You're going to watch your child make sense of the experience they just had at the zoo. They're going to replay and process everything they just learned at the zoo. So it's very simple, but you're going to take make your area where you'd like them to have independent play to be simple and reflect their current interests. Great. Okay, so someone's

said, okay, I can do that. And then their daughter's like, mommy, be lying, be lying, be lying. Yeah, be the lion, right? Because I think a lot of kids when they're starting, like they don't, they don't always just take to it, right? So if you have a taker, like amazing, just enjoy, right? If you don't, and you have a child who's demanding that interaction or asking it for it, what then? Well, I think we need to differentiate first between quiet time and independent play, right?

So, let's do that. So, if you are just looking for a few minutes of independent play as practice, right? You're going to realize your child, you want to start where your child is, okay? So, that means your child is used to you playing all the time, your child is used to being where you are. You can't just suddenly say, it's quiet time where you're going to go in your room and play independently for 30 minutes. That's not going to work. You can it won't work. It won't work. But what you can is say, I'm going to set up this towel with your animal toys. I'm going to do my work while you do yours. When you say, mommy, be the lion, I'm going to remind you, it's not my turn,

right now, to be lion. It's your turn to be lion. When it's over, and you can give them either a visual or set a timer, something so that they know they're going to come back to you, that's when I want to hear all the things you played. I want to hear all about what you're lying did. So there's still an opportunity to connect around the independent play, even if you are not in the play. So parents often feel guilty, you know, not playing with their kids and having their child play independently. You can connect with your child around a dependent play, even if you're not playing with them. And I'll add some things to this too, and that I would say as

a parent, I'm allowed to make decisions also that my kid doesn't really like, even at first, for a little while, that's okay. It goes back to I think what we started, and I think, you know, I always think about this with everything good inside. And someone said this to me, let's see, they said, I don't even know if you care about kids. They're like, they were laughing.

They're like, I think you just care about parents like feeling better about ourselves and feeling more empowered to make decisions that help ourselves. And like, you get our attention through kids, but it's not really about kids. And I was like, can't do things be true kids. And as I can't do things, be true. You can't wait, you can't make your about both.

But I think it's something all in part, oh, like, where is this idea that if my child says, no, I don't want to do that, that I have to say, okay, fine, we're not doing it. Or I become a bad parent if I kind of continue or work toward that new goal or really skill, right? Because independent play is a skill. If you thought it was so important for your kid to, I don't know, let's say take swimming, right? Like, no one learns how to swim in one day. And I know a lot of parents who think, yeah, my kid doesn't like swimming. We kind of manage that. We go in the water. We go out. But my kid's protest isn't the thing that determines whether I'm going to continue helping them

in the pace that works, learn how to swim. Right, like that, I'm still gonna teach them how to learn how to swim. And I think that thinking about independent play that way. Right, if your kid says, no, I don't want to learn how to swim. I don't know any parents who think I'm a, I don't want to learn how to swim. I don't know how many parents who think, I'm a horrible parent for wanting them to learn how to swim.

I think parents think they're, this is a really important skill. It's messy. I would love it if my kid just took to it. Okay, so it's messy, but I didn't become a bad parent by continuing to do swim lessons. And my kid's not a bad kid for protesting.

We're just, we're working through it. Like, would you say is that is that similar to what you'd say about independent play? I think that's such a good example and the piece that's even before that is that parent goes into the swimming lesson expecting their child to push back. Yes, I do have to know if you are someone who is played with your child and interactive with your child, all the time, you can't just suddenly flip the switch. You have to expect the pushback. You have to be present in the messy because the magic happens on the other side of that.

It is rarely automatic. And the goals, I think, are so important. I keep thinking about this word some. It is like the goals of some. I think so many of us unconsciously, whatever our goal is, it's all right. So my kids going to learn how to do independent play. Like some, like what if my goal, if you're starting at zero minutes, could that timer be, I don't know, 30 or 60 seconds, stay one, just to get on a motivation cycle?

Like, is that something you would tell a parent to do? Like, how small can you start? You can start so small. You can start even before you start by noticing what your child is already doing independently and calling it out. So if you start to observe your child, the way you're already going to do

because you're going to observe them for their interests, you're also going to watch. And it could be literally that they watched TV by themselves. That's fine. You might have a child who's always following you around, but this time they watch TV while you ran downstairs and switched the laundry. You're going to come up and say, Hey, I just switched the laundry, and you stayed watching your show, and you did that independently. All of those things you're noticing them do independently or without help, you're gonna call those things out. You are going to help them see themselves

as becoming an expert in being independent. I love that priming. And you know, one of my favorite quotes about children and child development is this idea of I am as I am seen If you think about your kid like the way they develop their identity is through reflecting Back the image we show them right so I am as I am seen if we think about what we say to our kids a lot when we're frustrated That they don't plan independently and I'm gonna you know join the choir here I've said this too, and that's why I know the words.

It's, you never leave me alone. Kids, your age play by themselves. Why can't you? You can't do one thing by yourself. Well, first of all, we've all been there. It doesn't mean any of us did such big damage. I think though if we zoom out, we think, oh my goodness, that's interesting. I probably can't really expect my child to build a new part of themselves,

that independent part, if what I'm reflecting back to them, is that they're not capable of being that way. And what you're saying, it's such a low lift way to start a new skill. It's like the pre-work, just finding a time in the day. Let's say you're gonna start this new independent play quiet time practice, which is not just self-directed play. It's a time in the day when your kid say you're going to start this new independent play quiet time practice,

which is not just self directed play. It's a time in the day when your kid is away from you playing. How cool if in the week before you even do the first minute every day you find a time to say, wow, I noticed you did X by yourself. You're a kid who's really capable of doing things by yourself. That's really cool. Like just once a day to kind of plant that idea, right? That's what you're saying. You could even start there. Exactly. And when you see your kids even say the example of the garbage truck, starting to say things like, wow, you know a lot about garbage trucks. Yes. You are someone who's learning so much about how they work. So you're going to keep priming them to see themselves as the expert on their own interests

and as someone who can independently seek that. And that may sound kind of ridiculous when you say to a two-year-old or a three-year-old, you know a lot about, but when you step back, they actually really do. Think about how much time your child spends sitting in the stroller or the car seat observing the world. They actually know a lot about a lot of things. It's really this skill is coming from building confidence and confidence, right? And that's that's also a lifelong skill as you're you know kind of encouraging independent play who doesn't want to be encouraging confidence at every moment in their child's development.

Okay, so we've noticed their interest. Maybe I've planted these seeds about how much they know, how capable they are of being independent. Then let's just say there's actually a day, they're like, today's the day, it's Monday, and you know, at 12.30 or whatever it is. This is the time I'm going gonna really start this quiet time routine. I've heard about this, say, I need this in my life. One of the things I think about a lot in communicating with my kids is I need to be really clear,

especially if it's something that they might have mixed feelings about, right? Like I always think, right, Bernabreau and he says that clear is kind, right? It's like the kindest thing to do was be clear and to own something. I think it's when we're really ambivalent or we even almost like ask for our kids permission

it's really disregulating. I think like a two year old's like, why are you asking me for permission about anything? You know? That's scary for kids. That is so scary, right? So when I go out to dinner with my husband or with friends, my kids say,

well why are you going to dinner instead of putting me to bed? I always say, look, I love being your mom and I love putting you to bed. Some nights, I also love being with my friends and having time with them when we're not with our kids. That's also really important to me. Just like boom, like that is just true versus if I say to them there, can you just let me go out one night? That is a real role reversal. And so when it comes to independent play, we don't want to say to our kids, look, I just need some time where I'm not with you

and you need to let me do that. So you're going to start, no, no, no, no, no, no. When you want to be really direct and clear. So I don't think there's one way to say it. Lizzie, how would you, if this was the first day of family's doing it, how would you say it? I would say we're going to try something new and kind of grown up. I've really noticed that you are learning how to do things on your own including learning how to play. Then you can decide what you're going to call it. We call it

quiet time. You call it, you know, whatever you want. And you're going to say, you don't take a nap anymore. And so now that you're growing up, instead you're going to have this thing called quiet time. And then you're going to lay out for them with that means that means this is a time for just you. You don't have to share with your sister. You can do your own ideas. You know, you really want to sell it, but authentically with truth.

You're also going to say, this is new. I'm still learning and you're still learning. We're going to work on this together. You're not just going to throw them in the room and close the door and call it a day. You're not doing that. So you're going the same way you're going to prepare yourself. This might be tricky. We're going to learn this together. Here's how it's going to work. Inside your room, I put your favorite animals and your favorite magnetiles. And you have your books. You might decide you just want to lay on your bed the whole time,

but you get to pick because it's your quiet time. You might decide to build with magnetiles, but you get to pick mommy's nine chart. You're in charge of what you do. So you really want to sell them on this time of getting to know themselves. Now on the flip side of that for you is to prepare yourself for pushback. So what are you going to say when they come out of their room? You need to be able to say in your head, my child is going to come out of their room. They need to know, they need their job, right, to test the limits to make sure they're there. They've never done this before. So you need to prep yourself in your mind of what am I going to say and what am I going to do so that you can actually respond to them instead of reacting from a place of fear or guilt.

And there's so many different scenarios, but words, I know I can share that I think are always good to have in our back pocket is Even if it all goes awry that first day words like this was really tricky today. We're gonna try it again tomorrow Yeah, always good words, right and going back to that idea of I am as I am seen I think about the role a lot of parents in holding hope, right? This idea of we have to see our kids kind of as capable of making a change before they're able to make that change. And so saying to a kid, we're gonna try it again tomorrow,

or I have a feeling tomorrow it's gonna go a little bit more smoothly. Or I have a feeling by the end of this week, it's gonna get a little easier. Like we have to be that type of leader, right? Imagine being in a hard day at work. And if the CEO of your company was like, you always do everything wrong

and you always mess up every project versus, okay, today was tricky and I have a feeling by the end of the week, you're really gonna make some progress on this. Like, yeah, that person just single-handedly changed the trajectory of your work because they held that vision of you, that hope, and we need to do that for our kids. So another way you can really prime them is by saying,

you might build something and want to come show me. Here's what's going to happen. If you forget and you come show me, you might forget that it's quiet time. This is new. I am going to say, wait, don't tell me, don't tell me. I want to hear all about it when quiet time. This is new. I am going to say, wait, don't tell me. Don't tell me. I want to hear all about it when quiet time is over. Don't clean it up. I want to come into your room and quiet times over. And I want to listen to just you tell me about the building that just you made. And then they are going to come. They are going to come because they're going to forget. And you might say things like, I know it's hard to wait. This is so different. Things like that. And keep building them for success. So you're not going to ask them to wait 20 minutes. You might wait one minute or you know your child best, but build on

what they already can do. Exactly. And I think that timeline is so important for everyone listening. Right? If your child did just become an independent swimmer, let's say they're relatively safe, right? You're still watching them. I don't think you're expecting your kid to do 50 laps, right? Like, if they just became capable of swimming across the side of the pool that was, you know, not as far of a distance. If they then did the longer distance lap, one lap is a lot.

Like, you have to work up to do two laps, to do four laps. And if you said to a kid right away, okay, let me see 20 laps, well, you were not just not setting our kid up to build that muscle, right? They haven't gotten there, but that doesn't mean there's nothing. It just means we have to do some. And, you know, biologically, I was like, our body really builds on motivation. I haven't think just it's about doing that first small step of anything new. When we then are able to say to ourselves, hi, did that new thing, then we can do a little bit more, right? We have to just build the motivation. So for everyone who wants to have a quiet time independent play routine,

you have all this information. And Lizzie's gonna share how to get more because there's actually so much more nuance that we just couldn't get to and is really, really important. I think something to come back to is, okay, let me take away the all goal. That beautiful 45 minute, you know, two hour time period I want to myself, okay, maybe we'll get there.

But what's the sum? Just a little bit. And how can I help build my child's motivation through building their sense of capability a little bit at a time because when we feel capable, then we can do more of that thing. That's right. And at the end of quiet time, you're going to really connect on their success, whether it was a minute or ten minutes, you are going to go all in on what was their idea.

Even if their idea was laying on their bed, lay on their bed next to them, experience that with them, understand what it feels like to be them in their quiet time. If your kids a little bit older, they're probably annoyed that they have to always clean up the playroom or share with their siblings or they may have a baby sibling who's always knocking down their work. So for quiet time, if you have the space, even a small space, that's just for them say, hey, you can leave this up until tomorrow and work on it some more. They don't get to do that in other areas. Yes, I love that. So was he tell people who are probably thinking right now, okay, yes, like I actually feel like I need to do this.

I want to do this. I deserve this. My kid deserves this. Everybody wins. And someone also who I just like like a guide, like I just need the thing next to me. I need all the details. Right, I'm like that too when I'm trying something new.

So where can someone go to get more information, to get more support and to get more from you? Sure. So you can find me on Instagram at the workspace for children. In my bio, you can click the link. And I actually have a course, an audio course that is like very short clips.

I mean, I'm telling you, you could just listen to these while you're brushing your teeth. And it's going to actually give you the step by step of how to set up your child for quiet time and independent play routine, what to do when it doesn't work, what to do when it does work, and you wanna really build on that,

and really just how to learn more about who your child is as a person who learns and plays. And I'm actually gonna set up a code for you when this goes live as more play, just for these amazing good inside parents, if they want to learn more about independent play. And just to remember that independent play is a practice. It is an ongoing practice, just like meditation. It is not something that you become, that you just master in its over, is ongoing for your child's whole life.

you just master in its over is ongoing for your child's whole life. Lizzie, thank you so much. This is such an important episode full of so many, like such nuggets that I know will be usable over and over again. So thank you for sharing so much knowledge with all of us. Thanks for having me. What an honor. Thanks for listening to Good Inside. I love co-creating episodes with you based on the real life tricky situations in your

family. To share what's happening in your home, you can call 646-598-2543 or email a voice note to Good Inside Podcast at gmail.com. There are so many more strategies and tips I want to share with you, and so many good inside parents I want you to meet. I'm beyond excited that we now have a way to connect and learn together. Head to goodinside.com to learn more about good inside membership. I promise you, you're going to love it. It's totally game-changing. And if you're not already receiving my free weekly email, go to goodinside.com to sign

up. You don't want to miss it. Good Inside With Dr. Becky is produced by Mary Kelly. Our senior producer is Beth Roe and our executive producers are Erika Belski and me. If you enjoyed this episode, please do take a moment to rate and review it, or share this episode with a friend or family member as a way to start an important conversation. Let's end by placing our hands on our hearts and reminding ourselves, even as I struggle, and even as I have a hard time on the outside.

I remain good inside.