Good Inside with Dr. Becky - How to Know if Your Kid Is Ready for a Phone

Episode Date: October 8, 2024

Dr. Becky loves to say if you can't say no to a cupcake then you can't say no to TikTok. And parenting in the age of phones and social media can feel like a lose-lose situation. How do we protect our kids from a very known danger to their mental health without creating social consequences? In this conversation, Dr. Becky and a mom discuss the topic of when to give a kid a phone and how to navigate the challenges and concerns that come with it. Get the Good Inside App by Dr. Becky: https://bit.ly/4e0zWigTo learn more about the How to Give Your Kid a Phone Workshop: https://bit.ly/4gOu8tEFollow Dr. Becky on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/drbeckyatgoodinsideSign up for our weekly email, Good Insider: https://www.goodinside.com/newsletterOrder Dr. Becky's book, Good Inside: A Guide to Becoming the Parent You Want to Be, at goodinside.com/book or wherever you order your books.For a full transcript of the episode, go to goodinside.com/podcastTo listen to Dr. Becky's TED Talk on repair visit https://www.ted.com/talks/becky_kennedy_the_single_most_important_parenting_strategyToday’s episode is brought to you by Airbnb: Before Dr. Becky was a parent, she thought planning a family vacation would be a breeze… until she realized how much has to come together for a trip with two adults and three kids. Then she discovered Airbnb Guest Favorites. No more combing through options, reviews, and features. Guest Favorites are the most loved homes on Airbnb according to other guests. And that peace of mind when preparing for a trip is huge. Using Guest Favorites couldn’t be easier: Just go to Airbnb, add your destination, tap the filters and hit the toggle for Guest Favorites. It’s that simple.Today's episode is brought to you by Hasbro: On October 10th, Dr. Becky is giving the keynote address at Hasbro’s Women Innovators of Play virtual conference…and you’re invited! Hasbro’s mission with this annual conference is to attract more women and girls to the toy and game industry and inspire anyone with a passion for play. They’ll have panel discussions, fireside chats, and so much more that will leave you feeling energized, educated, and maybe even inspired to use the skills you learn to dip your toe in the toy and game design field or help your kid get the most out of playtime. The best part? It’s completely free to attend. Join us on October 10th from 10am-12:30pm Eastern! To learn more, register, and watch, head to www.spark.hasbro.com/womeninnovators.

We have a rising sixth grader and she's been really good about not pushing for a phone. She knows it's off the table for now, but as her friends increasingly get them, it was a popular fifth grade graduation gift around here. We just want to be equipped so that when it comes up, we know it's not an if, it's a when. We know how to handle the questions of why can't I have one now? And when am I going to get one?

And if you think I'm not mature enough, why are they mature enough to have one? So we just want to be able to have some good sort of scripts to explain this to her beyond, oh, we as a family are going to wait. Different families, different choices only go so far with an 11-year-old. When do I give my kid a phone? What age is the best age to give a phone?

My kid is the only one who's not going to have a phone. I can't even tell you how many voice notes I've gotten about phone related dilemmas. And so I want to get into it with all of you because I know what's on your mind. And even if you have a younger kid, it's so important to start thinking about how am I going to handle moments where my kid wants something and I don't want them to have it? And how can I hold boundaries while staying connected to my kid, especially before they ask about something so big like a phone? Today, I'm talking to a mom who's been really thoughtful about her media policy with her

kid. And at the same time, her kid is now starting middle school and is desperate for more access and is desperate for a smartphone. Today, we're going to get into how to think through those decisions and how to manage your kids' questions and disappointment and anger. So tell me a little bit more what's going on for you in terms of my hesitations and my worries. Because I think that your awareness of that

is actually a really amazing thing already to see in the conversation, that you're having some amount of conviction that you don't want this to happen yet. And it seems like there's things on your mind that you feel like you're protecting her from. So tell me a little bit more about that. Yeah, it's really twofold. One is the timing. We're in a period of transition. She's entering middle school for the first time in our town. Four elementary schools merged into one middle school. So it's a lot of new social dynamics, new friends, new friend groups. We also have homework for the very first time. So it's new schedules, new routines, new expectations.

She's also riding a bus for the first time. So there's just like a lot of factors that come into play that you could make the case. It's a perfect time for a phone. She should have ways to connect and ways to stay in touch. But on the flip side, I think I really want to make sure she has a smooth transition and avoids distraction and can really focus on what matters socially, academically, making a smooth transition into middle school. So there's a couple of things I just want to kind of double click on right away. Number one, you're talking about,

okay, my kid does maybe have more of a need to stay in touch than they used to. They're riding a bike or they're on a bus like you said, or maybe they have some evening activities they didn't used to have as they get older, they're at soccer practice far away. Like I hear this from parents all the time, my kid's in sixth, seventh grade, and actually I feel like I want to be more in touch with them. So there's that. There's also something you said that I think is really important for parents to hear, which

is you're really invested in protecting her transition and protecting her from distractions. And this is just actually the first thing that I think really matters when you talk to our kids. I think a lot about this phrase. I'm not so much anti-phone, as I am pro. And then you can fill something in. As I am pro connection. As I am pro you.

As I am pro focus. as I am pro smooth transitions, as I am pro whatever it is that you stand for, is really important to frame in your mind because so often with kids, the conversation starts with, oh, you don't want to get me a phone, what's wrong with phones? And then all of a sudden, you're talking about something you don't want versus often a decision to delay actually comes from a value a parent has that's being pro something, right? So I know when I was talking to some school administrators who are going phone free, it's not so much that we're anti-technology, we're pro students. That's actually where this decision comes from. So I'm curious what about that resonates with you.

Completely resonates. Definitely pro connection over here. I think my husband and I say all the time, we're on borrowed time of taking vacations as a family without our girls having a device in their hand at dinner. Not that we can control our kids forever, nor do we have any hope in doing that. But this connection at this age, as we go through this really important growth time, is really important to us and Maintaining that connection is important. So I think like I said distraction and wanting to really maintain that connection piece I'm dr. Becky and this is good inside. We'll be back right after this

Okay, I want to talk to you about something really exciting. On October 10th, I'm giving the keynote address at Hasbro's Women Innovators of Play Virtual Conference. And here's the most exciting part. You're invited. Hasbro's mission with this annual conference is to attract more women and girls to the toy and game industry and inspire anyone with a passion for play. They have panel discussions, fireside chats, and so much more that will leave you feeling

energized, educated, maybe even inspired to use the skills you learn to dip your toe in the toy and game design field or to help your kid get the most out of playtime. The best part is that it's completely free to attend. So join us on October 10th from 10 a to 1230pm Eastern. To learn more, register and watch. Head to www.spark.hazbro.com slash women innovators. Now you did mention this kind of increased need for communication. And so the other thing I think that's really important when we think about a phone is I know to a lot of parents that I talk to, a phone somehow means a smartphone with every

app under the sun. That is one version of a phone. Let's say a version of a phone that's completely the end of the spectrum is like a flip phone that allows for basic text or voice. And then in the middle, there's all types of things. How are you thinking about that? Is that on the table? Absolutely. So she has had a watch that enables her to text us with preloaded messages and up to 10 individuals. For the last year, she was walking home from school with her little sister alone,

and we wanted some way of staying in touch. So in my head, and I don't even know if I've ever vocalized this to her, because it's hard to put these sort of timelines on things, but I'm thinking if the first few months transition to middle school goes well, and she's on task and can do her homework, and the social dynamics seem to be goes well, and she's on task and can do her homework, and the social dynamics

seem to be going well. Perhaps like an Apple Watch is another sort of intermediary step where they have a little more freedom in terms of who they can connect with, but there's no social media. It's harder for like large group texts to blow up in the same way they do on a phone or an iPad. Maybe that could be a good incremental step,

but again, will it be insufficient? I imagine holidays is gonna be a really big time for other friends to get phones. Well, look, to me, Marissa, this comes back to something that I think we actually have always managed with our kids before phones. And I think this is actually the essence of what is empowering for parents around our kids' phones

and social media and everything like that. Our number one job is to keep our kids safe, which never means removal of risk. Like, it doesn't mean keep your kid in a bubble. But that is our number one job, is to look at their environment and make sure when they were two that they're not, you know, I don't know, crawling off a ledge. When they're five, that we're still watching them on the playground, maybe while sitting down, but we're watching them.

And that actually has always been our job. And I would guess when your daughter was younger, she often wanted things that you said no to. Maybe even like your own words, continual disappointment. I don't know about you, but my son literally did ask for ice cream, I think for like three months straight for breakfast when he was a toddler. I don't know why we never did ice cream for breakfast. It was just constant. And I do feel on some level was I constantly disappointing him. Maybe on the other level, I always felt like he was doing his job, which was asking for things he wants. He's allowed to do that. And I was doing my job of

making decisions that I thought were best for him, you know, long-term and made sense to me, even if he was short-term distressed, right, or upset with me. So maybe rewind and then I want to come back to the present moment. Tell me how you've managed those moments because I do think in the phone and social media conversation, something we miss as miss as parents is wait what is it like for me to set boundaries? Do I have a history of setting boundaries and tolerating my kids upset or do I have a history and if this is true no shame it's just important information of oh I kind of hate setting boundaries my kids and I tend to give in and they're kind of used to me doing that and in what other situations unrelated to phones,

have I continually come up against a certain boundary where my kid keeps asking and I genuinely tend to say no over and over? So let's rewind and then we'll come back to today. I think in general, it's where the best where we set boundaries that we can sort of brainstorm together what a fair boundary might be so that they feel invested. That this seems like a fair boundary.

It's an incremental step to where I want to get to or we think this seems fair and we all can sort of agree and be clear upfront of this is the boundary. And that's actually, Marissa, I think for you, going to be your guide in how you make some of these decisions for your family. Because it sounds like there are certain things that are core to you. Your kids transition to school, that's core. Your kid having a kind of relatively non-distracted school academic experience, that's core. It sounds like staying off social media for some time and staying off these kind of like bigger group texts.

Those things are like relatively core for right now. And then it sounds like what's up for grabs kind of could be negotiated is the exact timing of like, oh, do I go from this device to like this step function change? Maybe it's an Apple Watch. Okay. Do I let my kid text more friends than 10? But again, still have core, you can't be on those group texts that get out of control. And I actually think as a parent, your ability to kind of write those things down and actually see them is really, really important because then you can bring that in a conversation

to your child. And I think this is where having some type of sit down, not like the sit downs that we think of maybe when we were younger, like, oh, being sat down, no. But like, hey, let's sit down, let's find a time. Whoever the core members of the family are, your kid, sounds like maybe you and maybe your partner, I say, hey, there are some things that I've really thought about.

And I know we're gonna keep coming up against this, but I thought it would be helpful to actually have a kind of family meeting where I tell you exactly how I'm thinking about it, what kind of non-negotiables there are right now, and what things have a little more flexibility. And we could talk about timeline because I'm sure on your end, sweetie, you would like to have some thing concrete to hold onto about when things are or aren't a possibility. So let me just pause there. If you said that to your daughter, how would she respond to that idea?

I think she'd be really receptive. She responds well to a strong plan and good expectations. So I think she'd be very receptive to that. I mean, I do too. Let me just, you know, me and your daughter cut from the same thing. We all love a good routine. I love a routine. I'm like, just put it on my calendar, then I know it's there.

And then I think I would start a meeting saying to my kid, just anything to level things and kind of really connect them and just let them know you're on their team. So I would say something like, hey, you know, just I want to talk about phones, about social media, about how we're thinking about that in the family. Look, by the end of this conversation, there are certain things that are going to be clear. There are also probably some things that are still going to be unclear. I want to be honest. Those are probably going to be the annoying things, but in our family, I tell you the truth and I'm never going to say something certain if it isn't.

That doesn't mean it's going to happen tomorrow, but we'll try to make some things as clear as possible. And so the other thing I want to say is I know you're a good kid and I want to let you know that I take my job as your parent very seriously. And part of my job always is making decisions that I think are really good for you long term even if short term you're annoyed with me. And then Marissa, I sometimes say this line to my kid a lot. I actually love you so much that I'm willing to do that. Like I care about you and your development so much that I'm willing to have you roll your eyes at me, be mad at me, and because I know we can talk through that.

And I also know that sometimes being a parent requires that. So with that in mind, right? And so I think what you're doing is you're starting out, you're connecting, you're letting them know you're on the same team, and you're also establishing that you are the parent here. And then I would just share some of the things you're saying here. I know you want to talk to more of your friends. I get that some of your friends will have full access to everything. I can tell

you, in this grade, we are not going to be a full access to everything. I can tell you in this grade, we are not going to be a full access to everything family that is completely off limits. I also can tell you over the next couple months, what matters most is watching your transition to middle school. It's a big deal and I have full trust in you. And because I have trust in you and because I believe in you,

I won't let a decision get in your way of being as successful as possible. And so there's going to be no changes made until at minimum, I don't know, again, whatever you fill in the blank with. So before we go any further, like tell me, and I'm putting things out there with the idea that you're going to say, oh, I'd want to take that or I'd want to throw that away. What about that type of approach, again, like hits home or what would you want to amend? That resonate. The only thing that I worry a little bit about the other context piece here is our older daughter has had access to an iPad with a lot of the texting privileges

and some of the social media with parental controls. But I need to prepare myself for the pushback of how is this any different, mom, dad, than you giving me the iPad last year? How is me having a phone any different than what you've already given to me? So I think we need to be ready for a good rationale for both of those. We got to have certain responses ready. You got to have some lines ready. I always feel like that with conversations too.

Well, just Marissa, between me and you here, what about a phone versus an iPad does feel different? I mean, it feels different for me. So I think you're right on. But just tell me what's on your mind about the difference. Well, to date, the iPad hasn't been something that leaves the home. It's something that you get for a certain number of, I mean, that's not true. It leaves when you go on vacation, et cetera.

But it doesn't go on the school bus. It doesn't go to school. It doesn't sit in your pocket. It's something that you use at the end of the day to like watch YouTube shorts or text your friends. And so that seems to me different than something that's constantly in your pocket, constantly dinging with notifications. It just seems a little different because it's not as portable.

And as you're talking, how much conviction do you have? Forget your daughter's response, but how much conviction do you have? Forget your daughter's response, but how much conviction do you have in that difference? How much do you really believe yourself when you hear yourself talking? I really do believe it. To be fair, whatever videos or she's watching on the phone are no different than what she would get on the iPad.

There are some loopholes in the argument here, like, oh, you did give me social media here. Why wouldn't, if you give me an entry-level phone with no social media, that's worse than what I had at home already. Like, am I giving up one thing to get another? But I think what you're saying is that one of them has a much clearer boundary around use. That there's something about phones, and we know this, they're so slippery. You're like, what? I didn't even know I was looking at my phone. What?

Oh, I guess I took it out of my pocket. What? It made a noise, and it's so much closer to me that I just looked at it. This happens all the time where an iPad, which obviously is smaller than a TV, so it used to seem like this tiny device, but it feels bulky in almost like a helpful way as a boundary. Or you're never, oh my goodness, I just pulled my iPad out

of my back pocket and found myself doing something. So I agree with you because I think what we're talking about are two different things. There's the content of what a child is doing and there's the container of where that lives. They both matter and changing both at the same time is a big change. And I think what you're saying is the container where this lives feels really important in protecting her transition. Yeah, and I think we learned that the hard way with the iPad. I think I was naive to think you could move from like a Facebook messenger situation

where your parents see everything to, oh, I just want to FaceTime my friends. And it just opened up a whole other world of the group texts and the, you know, without any parental controls, because I had no idea at the beginning, like I didn't even know what I was doing. So I think it's really also instructive of, okay, this time we're going to go in a little more eyes wide open about where do you charge this device that night? How do you put the limits on for both time and content and make sure that you're staying safe but you know how to use it?

I think that that's right. And I think I would own that outright. I think it's helpful to say to kids, definitely to tweens and teens, just the language, you're right. You're absolutely right. So when she says, oh, but you already gave me social media, right, you're absolutely right. You're totally right.

I did. And so I get why it feels extra confusing or even annoying for me to still hold the line on not having something I gave you on an iPad on a phone. I get that. And I would really like overplay your hand there. Yep, you're absolutely right, I totally get that. And look, I'm happy to talk you through

what I see as the difference. Social media is kind of the content. It's what you're doing. The device is what I think of as a boundary or kind of a container. And how portable something is, how much you could slip into using a certain device, that really differs between an iPad and a phone. And so there

are two ways I think about protecting you. One is the what and the other one is the specific device. And that's the reason why I'm still not ready to put social media on a phone. And I think owning it in that way, I'm not ready, I'm not there yet, I trust you, I love you, and this isn't easing in that I still feel gives the protection that feels right. I think that that's like a really sturdy way of communicating that choice. If you're like me, it's almost impossible to talk to another parent without getting into a conversation about the impact of phones on our kids' mental health. I mean, the data is clear. Our kids are really struggling.

But you know what's also clear? Parents need a solution that's practical, actionable, and actually manageable in the reality of our busy lives. In my private practice, one of the most common topics I discuss with parents is how to give your kid a phone. That's right, not just whether to give a kid a phone, but the how, literally the steps to take, the words to use, the contract to put in place, the boundaries that are non-negotiable, the important conversations to have.

And as I've now seen millions of parents concerned about phones and not knowing where to turn for help, I realized I had to bring this information out of my private practice and surface it to all of you. So join me live for my upcoming workshop, How to Give Your Kid a Phone. And here's what you're going to get. The three essential questions to ask yourself before giving your kid a phone. Which boundaries are critical to set and how to handle pushback around them? The specific steps to implement a phone contract that works,

that your kid buys into and that actually holds weight, and how to ensure your kid comes to you in unsafe tricky moments which inevitably happen as soon as a kid has a phone. We all know that phones are an issue for this generation. You deserve to navigate phones with confidence. And with my clear roadmaps and concrete steps to take, I know that's exactly what you'll have. And yes, this workshop, along with every other workshop I have, is recorded and it's included within the Good Inside app. So follow the link in show notes or visit goodinside.com

to go save your spot. There are a couple of things about that that sit well. And there are a couple of things I wonder about. One is, you know, for the friends who do have unfettered access to social media, when you have these, you know, not a play date, I don't know, like a get together at this age, it's like, let's get together and let's do TikToks or watch YouTube shorts together. And so there is this if you restrict something so much at home, does it become the thing that they want so

much that becomes almost not an addiction but an obsession? Totally. How do we navigate that pace? So look, these apps are inherently addictive. So they're addictive on their own. They're meant to capture your attention. They're meant to never feel like enough. I think one of the things that makes kind of anything extra enticing for a kid is not

only when it's kind of quote, off limits, but when it's even off limits from being talked about, when there's something extraordinarily binary about it, and when it becomes kind of this way of expressing independence and control for a child. So this is where it's part of such a larger family dynamic. And again, this is why I think staying connected to your kid through these conversations is really important. I think for this generation, right, where I think there's this movement now of, wait, can we band together with other families? This is something I want to ask you about too, and I know John Height talks about this a lot.

Can there be some collective action? Can my kid be one of five kids who doesn't have social media? Five kids who has it on their iPad but not on their phone, right? And then all of a sudden, oh, well, they're on, you know, some type, they're having a get together, but half the kids have it and half the kids don't. It immediately changes. If you're saying, I am the only one, my kid is the only one in a group of 20 friends who doesn't have a phone with TikTok and they're sitting and they're not socializing by talking, they're socializing by watching TikToks with each other, I hear you. And I think this is, you know, where this generation where we're kind of stuck.

But I guess I'm also a believer that there is this kind of middle ground that we don't have to be so rigid. And so tell me, is she the only one? No, not at all. We're just over preparing for when, you know, and, and I don't think we're going to be waiting long enough for that to be the case, to be fair. You know, I think. Is this something you have talked about with the other parents in the town? Like are there other people where you're saying, hey, I know this seems like a kind of messy middle, but do you guys also want to say no social media on a phone, no smartphones, even though I know we all kind of allow this form of social media on an iPad for this amount

of time, you know, in the privacy of our own homes? Because those things can make a huge difference. Absolutely. I think by the time it crossed our radar, it was too, like, as I said to my neighbor and friend circulating it, who has younger daughters, like the chip has failed. I think it would be easier to start that earlier. I think when we got wind of a local effort, it was the end of fifth grade. And so we already had the iPad, we're already on some social media, there are already phones in the friend group, not many, but there are a couple. And so I think it's easier if folks band together earlier. And it was interesting because when I asked her kind of what responses are you getting

to this, she said, interestingly, we have some coaches of these traveling sports teams who want the kids to have phones, because they want the parents to be able to reach the kids when they're at games an hour away to know what time to be picked up. And so I think it also context really matters here. You know, what is your child doing after school? Where do they need to be? How much do you need to reach them versus have another way of reaching them? And so, you know, I'm not trying to be judgy about the phone use. It's just, I think we need to understand the context of why our child or why our students need the phone when they need it.

I completely agree. So look, to kind of bring some of this together, it sounds like you're okay with increased communication in general. It sounds like the things that you would really like to hold off on are extra forms of distraction and kind of slipping into phone use in moments that phone use wasn't intentional. Absolutely. And so I think then every parent can really come up with like, what are those things that matter most to me? And what is the version of a phone or device that actually bring that to life?

And I think talking to your kid about that is where I'd actually begin. These are the things that are okay. Okay, so maybe after a few months, we do get you that Apple Watch. Maybe that does actually make sense to you and you can preview to your kid, look, a month later, when you ask me for a smartphone, I want to let you know, sweetie, that's not going to happen. We're going to wait a little longer. And I think giving a kid some milestones if you have them is really helpful. Like you said, everybody likes a plan, but everyone just likes to be able to see into a little bit in the future and understand,

okay, this thing is or isn't happening around the corner. Because I think when you're in that Apple store and in your mind as a kid, you're like, today's gonna be the day. Today's gonna be the day. It's gonna happen. It's gonna happen. And a parent's like, oh, we're going there to get a charger. I was never gonna get my kid a phone today. There's a really big gap. It's not only the disappointment that can dysregulate a kid, it's the surprise at the disappointment, because in their mind, they had built up a wish to seem like a reality. I think being honest about, hey, maybe it is, you said, the holidays. Maybe that's a great time to say,

assuming these things happen, yes, an Apple Watch would be on the table for a holiday gift. Now you have a sense of what that will look like. It can quiet some, not all, but some of the constant protest. That makes a lot of sense. I wonder what if we say the transition with a little rackier or there's, you know, I don't anticipate this happening, but you know, what if you have

to push it? How do you know when is like the right time? Yeah, I think, and this is going to sound like a cop out, but there is never some right time. And I think though, what you're, you're speaking to is when we do give our child a device that inherently makes focus and connection harder, what kind of guidelines can we put in place to just minimize those risks? And those are things you can do way before your kid has a phone. So let's touch on that a little bit. Number one, the habits we have with our own phone

when we come into our home really matter. And I know that's always hard. I hear myself say that. I'm like, oh shoot, does that mean I have to like work on my own stuff for my kids? And I guess yes, the truth is it does. So things like where do I put my phone when I come into my house? And I know a lot of parents say, what do you mean where I put my phone? It's like in my pocket, right? But I think that's part of it. Well, do I want my kid to have their phone in their pocket, you know, for the next couple hours? Most people would say, no, I don't. So some amount of modeling matters. Number two, and sometimes this is the easiest place to start, can we just make meals phone free? Can we make meals phone free for months before my kid has a phone? And then the idea before my kid has a phone?

And then the idea of my kid having a phone at the table would seem almost ludicrous because we've now established during dinner time or during whatever it is, Sunday morning breakfast as a family, that's always a time around a table. We eat and we talk and we connect and we hear about each other's days and there's not a phone, even if it's for 15 minutes. Where do phones charge at night? And what type of homework routine does my child have established?

I think those really matter. I think before your kid gets a phone, having a pretty well-defined homework routine, does my kid put their backpack down? Do they get a snack? Do they then start homework? Do they then start homework? Do they go and go do video games? Well, guess what? Once the phone is in the equation, the video game and the phone is going to make it really hard to get started on homework, right?

And so I think those things matter. And then I think you're right. Once the phone comes into play, we need to have a true routine. And in my mind, even like a contract, not from a place of control, but actually a collaborative contract. Where does the phone go when you come into the house? What is the relationship with the phone when there's homework? I would say the phone shouldn't be there. Where is the phone allowed to be used? Where does the phone charge and at what time? And way before

a kid gets a phone, coming together and actually really agreeing on those guidelines definitely sets a kid up for at least the best chance of right, their focus, their connection, not being as derailed. I love that. It's really helpful. Going through this, the kind of how of giving your kid a phone is something, you know, I'm thinking a lot about because I think, and you're speaking to this, just the pragmatic steps. Okay, so how does my kid come up with their own guidelines about what would keep them safe? I think too often a parent gives a kid

a phone contract and then the kid feels like, oh, my parent's kind of more invested in my safety and responsible use than I am. That's never a good setup for anyone to be successful. So how can I put some of that responsibility back on my kid? How can we go through the motions of the literal where? Where does the phone go when you're in the door? Where does it go during meals? Where does it go at a certain time? Those routines, again, Marissa, actually kind of form those containers

and make use less problematic because we have a kind of relatively, you know, better setup defined. Yeah, I really like that having a system before you start changing the game. Yeah, and I also know, you know, just being honest with your kid about your own phone struggles, especially before they get a phone, hey, we're going to really start phone-free meals. And look, it's hard for me. Not because I don't want to do it, just because these things are so addictive. So if you see my phone on me, if I'm trying to sneak it during dinner and you're like, Mom, I see you looking under the table, please let me know because it's important to me

and it's hard and you're welcome to call me out in a loving way just to remind me, right? That also sets your kid up for when they get a phone to be like, oh, and my mom might call me out on one of those moments too. But if they've had a few moments and it feels kind of playful and loving where you said, oh, you're totally right. Let me put the phone away. Thanks for calling me out, whatever you want to say. That creates such a nice relationship in the family, around in our family, if a phone's really getting in someone's way of being connected,

we already have a habit of noticing that, saying it, the person responding respectfully, and if you model that first, that behavior will be more likely to be mimicked by your child. Anything else on your mind or any other burning things that you feel like your daughter's going to ask you? Like, geez, I just really need a response to this.

I guess I do have one other question. If we end up giving the phone or the iPad or whatever device and you decide at some point it needs to be taken away because boundaries have been crossed or rules have been broken, how do you navigate the fact that your child says, this is the way I make plans with my friends or this is how I stay connected socially? So how does taking away a device not become a social punishment or a social consequence? Yes. So, look, again, you're speaking, how do we manage a generation where the way they communicate with people, which is so important in the tween and teen years,

is also some of the same things that can work against their focus, their self-esteem, their resilience long-term. Again, I don't know a great way to manage that. What I can tell you, I think really matters and is in the kind of good inside phone contract we recommend parents give their kids or develop with their kids is telling your kids, I'm just like the pilot of a plane. And what I mean by that is if a pilot is flying from

New York to Los Angeles, and at any point they get new information that makes them think they should return to base or have an emergency landing. They do that and the passengers might be annoyed because they're all planning on being in Los Angeles. And I think we all know the best pilots still would make a different decision to protect the passengers long term. So as I give you a device, I want to let you know any of this could change. And I take that seriously. I'm not planning to randomly change things on you just for fun. No. And I take my job of keeping you safe very seriously. And so if anything happened, this is not a threat. It's truly a mark of my love and my desire to protect you. Some of these things on a phone could change.

And I think that framing really matters. Now let's say that plays out and then you to protect you, some of these things on a phone could change. And I think that framing really matters. Now let's say that plays out, and then you're always like, what? I'm not on thing X anymore. I'm never gonna get invited to parties. I'm never, well, first of all, Marissa, I'm guessing that you're doing that because something pretty extreme has happened.

And for all I know, it's not even permanent. Look, we're taking a week break right now. Are you saying for this week, you might miss being invited? I believe you. I believe you. And like literally that stinks. And I know that stinks to an 11 year old more than or 14 year old, however old she is, more than anything else. I believe you. And I also believe we need this and this isn't forever. And we're going to get through it. And I can brainstorm when you're a little less angry with me other ways to figure out how to get in touch with your friends. And

I'll also let you know here are the things that I think we have to change or I need to even reset from a parent perspective so you could if that's your decision get this back in a safer way. But look all of this and I just want to end with this none of this is as clean as the words I'm sharing. This is an impossible job. Our kids are now using technology in their social relationships. That is also the same technology that we have real data for is saying is pretty bad for them. And so a parent is left like, what is a parent to do? And again, I just think I would really give yourself a lot of grace for saying, you know what a parent's going

to do? They're going to do the best that they can. Hopefully they're going to band together with other parents that collective action as John Heises matters so much. I'm going to try to stay connected to my kid through a series of difficult decisions and moments. I think just so you know, with my kids, that's what I'm planning to do too. Just muddy through it, make some decisions, probably change them later, do things the best that I can and hopefully have

a great community that I can go through these transitions with. -♪ -♪ Thank you for listening. To share a story or ask me a question, go to goodinside.com slash podcast. Or you could write me at podcast at goodinside.com. Parenting is the hardest and most important job in the world.

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Good Inside with Dr. Becky is produced by Jesse Baker and Eric Newsom at Magnificent Noise. Our production staff includes Sabrina Farhi, Julia Knapp, and Kristen Muller. I would also like to thank Erika Belsky, Mary Paniko, Brooke Zant, and the rest of the Good Inside team. And one last thing before I let you go. Let's end by placing our hands on our hearts and reminding ourselves, even as I struggle, and even as I have a hard time on the outside, I remain good inside. you you you