Good Inside with Dr. Becky - Mom Rage With Anna Mathur

Episode Date: July 26, 2022

Mom rage is real. Have you ever let out a primal scream in your kitchen? Felt the urge to drop everything and sprint out the front door? Dr. Becky and fellow psychotherapist Anna Mathur are right there with you. And they’re fired up to tell a new story about what this anger means: Mom rage is a sign of unmet needs. In this week’s episode, the two share a raw, real conversation on parental rage—exploring how shame, self-blame, and societal expectations of selfless parenting run many of us, especially mothers, into the ground. They share thoughtful reframes on what it means to be a “good parent,” along with practical strategies on how to check-in with your needs before you burn out. Remember: When you show up for yourself, you’re showing up for your family, too. Join Good Inside Membership: https://bit.ly/3cqgG2A Follow Dr. Becky on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/drbeckyatgoodinside Sign up for our weekly email, Good Insider: https://www.goodinside.com/newsletter Order Dr. Becky's book, Good Inside: A Guide to Becoming the Parent You Want to Be, at goodinside.com/book or wherever you order your books. For a full transcript of the episode, go to goodinside.com/podcast

You're listening to Good Inside with Dr. Becky. I have so many ideas, strategies, and scripts to share with you right after a word from our sponsor. Hey, Sabrina. Hey. So, I've been thinking about toys recently. I don't want the toy to do that much of the work. I want the toy to inspire my kid to do the work.

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we remain good inside. Hi Anna, I am so excited and honored for you to be on the podcast today. So welcome. Well, thank you so much. I am absolutely is such a privilege and I am such I honestly your your work and resources have transformed my parenting. So this is a wonderful thing to be chatting with you today. Well, we can mutually f girl because I've been a fan of you for a really long time too. And I think I reached out to you on Instagram. However, a long ago, feeling kind of sheepish. And then, you know, we ended up connecting.

And I just always love talking with you. Do you know what I think was my husband that introduced me to you? He found one of your videos on Instagram, and he was like, wow, this lady is talking some powerful stuff. And yeah, that was the beginning, so thank you. Well, that is very heartwarming. I feel like there's a way that that's going to be related to what we're talking about,

because I find so many of the women in heterosexual relationships that are in our community, and they often say, how do I get my partner? so many of the women in heterosexual relationships that are in our community and they often say, how do I get my partner? How do I get my husband to watch a video or be engaged? So how amazing for everyone to know also, it is possible, yeah, for a husband to take on that labor and say, hey, look what I found, you might be interested in this parenting related video. Yeah, I'm very glad. I'm very glad, and say, hey, look what I found, you might be interested in this parenting-related video.

Yeah, and I'm very glad. I'm very glad. I think that, isn't it, is ideally having being on the same page or at least kind of seeking those resources and that insight together means that you can implement it together. And yeah, it's been a bumpy journey, but we're on it and we're so grateful. Our kids are grateful. Well, let me tell everyone the topic we will be talking about because it is such an important one. It's something that you and I share as just a common area of

interest of importance of helping parents understand what's going on and it's the topic of mother rage and irritability and we can also kind of a little generalize that to parental rage. And here, I think we're going to be talking about maternal rage as related to kind of concepts around femininity and motherhood that have been given to us over the years. So let's just jump in. Like what? What is mom rage? What do you hear about it from other moms? So I'll share a bit of my experience because I think I've started hearing so much more of moms. In my community on social media, I've started hearing so many more of people's behind-the-scenes experience since I've started sharing mine because I think there is often so much kind of shame and self-judgment around rage and anger. So it's one of those things that we can feel really,

it's hard to talk about, it feels like it to be. So when I started untangling it for myself with my psychotherapist head on, that's when I find that I can start moving that shame from my own experience and then I can hopefully verbalise it in articulating in a way that will help kind of chip away that shame for other people so they can talk about it more openly. So I'm quite a fiery person I would say. I feel things quite big, mostly like my deep-be-feeling kid that I have that will hopefully not be so deeply feeling in the background as he's having his bath as we record. So I've always felt emotions quite big but I've learnt to really kind of, oh just contain them but not not in a great way just kind of push them down and I've felt

irritability with hormones and kind of you know that, oh just you know things coming outside ways in trying to try to push that down as well for the sake of my relationship. And I kind of coped all right with that, to be honest. I didn't like it when I saw that rage or that frustration rise. However, the pandemic gave us so fewer opportunities to do the things that distill that anger. So for me, that rage, that feeling of it's a mixture of overwhelms, stress, it's lots of things, it's kind of really bubbling and physical and quite visceral. But there were less opportunities to do those things that kind of really defuse that for me. So the me it was walking over here in England, we were allowed to walk once a day and often I'd

walk with my kids. And they would start, someone would have a tantrum within feet of the house. And then we had to go back. And that was that done. So there was no walking, you walk with my kids and they would start, someone would have a tantrum within feet of the house and then we had to go back and that was that done. So there was no walking, you know, there wasn't really seeing friends having that community, those little chats that a mum have was kind of leaning against someone else's washing machine in their kitchen as the chaos is continuing.

You know, there were less of those opportunities, even the moments of space that you get when you walk around from the passenger seat of the car to the driver seat of the car. And it's just that quiet, you know, there was none of those moments. And I started realizing that I was experiencing more of this, this kind of rage in a way that it was so much more, again, visceral than I had experienced before.

And there was this one moment. And I remember it so clearly I was in the kitchen. and the three kids were there, it was just hard, we hadn't been out and I messaged my husband who was working upstairs and I said, you got a comment swap out with me, like you have to, I'm gonna pop, I said and he didn't read the message because he was on a conference call. 20 minutes later, I'm surprised I lasted that long. It just I popped and I wrought like a lion. I screamed. I mean, I was almost bent double

because it was like this, this stuff, this noise just came out of me and I can even feel it thinking about remembering that moment. And it was uncontained. And, you know, whoever in my house wasn't crying started crying. My toddler would already be crying. She was on the floor. She cried harder. One of my kids came in from the other room wondering what the hell was going on. My husband entered the room on the phone with the laptop and arms going, I'm really sorry, I'm gonna have to see you there. And, you know, it was this moment that followed came the most, the biggest wave of guilt,

the biggest wave of shame. And I thought I have to untangle what this is because I am not going to be the only one roaring in my kitchen right now in life. So I started to think about it and I started to realize that, you know, this anger, this rage in me was a very clear culmination of unmet need, chronically overlooked need due to circumstance or just purely because I found it hard to ask maybe sometimes, and an unvalidated feelings that hadn't been able to voice that I hadn't spoken about. And I think in talking about that then and once I'd kind of determined what I thought this was

on social media, I started getting this huge kind of barrage of me choose. huge kind of barrage of me too. This is wow, these are the moments I've been having, these are the feelings I have been having and I have been shaming myself and feeling guilty. And then we just continue the cycle. I don't want to be in that place. So I have so many different directions. I'd love to explore with you, but I want to actually go in none of them yet, because I want to come back to something you said. Rage as a symbol or a symptom or a sign of unmet needs. Not as a sign of badness, as a sign of there's something wrong with me, as a sign of what type of mom does that? Do I not really love my kids? Am I not fit to be a mom not?

That's not what you said. You said rage as a symptom of unmet needs. Can you unpack that term unmet needs a little bit? No, you know, yeah. And the badness is where I'd gone before, because the badness is where I naturally jumped to. So this is why I really had to unpack and unp this because I know that I am not bad, I know that I love my children, I know that I'm a good enough mum. And for me, those unmet needs were the overlooked

opportunities for rest or the opportunities that I saw but didn't feel deserving of. or the opportunities that I saw but didn't feel deserving of. The lack of support and the support that was there that perhaps I found difficult to ask for. Because it's like a spiral, isn't it? You know, the more we proceed, things away, the more we overlook, the more the more we can't grab hold of them. You know, it nudges our self-esteem down, it affects our confidence, and then it's so easy just to spiral down. And there were other little symptoms

of this kind of rage and irritation. And it would be the gap between responding to my, like something happening, some challenging moment, got a deeply feeling kids. One of those moments where his emotions just, feel really unregulated and all out there. And I'm that recipient, I am that I am that absorber, I am that container. And I think the not having my needs met or not meeting them, not recognizing what they are, it it lessens that gap between that trigger,

that that emotion from him and how I respond. So I might then Snap at him or I might say for goodness sake, Charlie I haven't got time for this now when actually what I really want to come out in those moments is this considered response But we have to have energy for that. There's a couple things I want to kind of speak to everyone listening right now, so for everyone listening right now. So for everyone listening right now, I want to just ask yourself, have I had an episode or many, many, many episodes

of this parental rage? Just pause and ask yourself this and hold next to your answer, especially if it's a yes, which I would guess is true for 100% of the human beings I know including myself is I'm still a good person and then I want you to actually just say to yourself right now I must have important unmet needs I must have

important unmet needs. Anna is a license, psychotherapist, so am I. Trust us when we say this is true. I must have important, unmet needs. My rage is not a sign that I'm a bad parent or a bad person, or that anything's wrong with me.

My rage is a sign that I have unmet needs. And when I do have a whole host of unmet needs, and yes, it's normal to think, I don't even know what my needs are. You can have unmet needs, even if you don't know what your needs are. Very, very common. Then Anna, what you're saying,

and I'm a very visual person. So if you're like me and you're listening and you're not driving, you know, if you're saying, and I'm a very visual person, so if you're like me and you're listening and you're not driving, if you're driving, do not do what I'm saying, if you can put your hands out in front of you, and you know, kind of have a gap between them, and look at one hand and say, this is an urge I'm having,

and look at the other hand and say, this is the actual action I'm having. And when we're in a place where we're more grounded, we can have an urge to yell at a kid, and it can be separate from the action of yelling at our kid. There's distance between our hands. Now if you join me in kind of clapping your hands together, when we're in a place, and I'm curious that this is what you're saying, when we have these chronic kind of unmet needs, there's no space between urge and action. One just immediately converts into the other. So I

have an urge to yell and it's just coming out as a roar. Yeah, absolutely. It's like I like in it too, you know, when I'm really depleted, it's like my skin's gone. There's no buffer against the world. There's no, you know, the noise is louder, the stress is more stressful, the challenges kind of a far more likely to floor me. I'm reacting to everything my nervous system is just ready. It's wound up and ready and you named yourself as a deeply feeling person and it's one of the core things I think about deeply feeling kids and adults is their porousness, right? And that's what you're saying, no skin is like, just complete porousness to the world. And I think, you know, even if people don't identify as a deeply feeling kid one way to pleated,

we're more likely to get into that place. And as for not knowing what those needs are, I've been there and I sometimes, what I find it really helpful to do, also very visual person, as I imagine standing in a shop, and I'm trying on different clothes. And I'm just trying to, you know, when you try things on, sometimes you try something on it, it just fits and it fits and you know that it's the right fit for you.

So the other day I was sitting in my car and I was like, wow, I've got a need here. I don't know what it is. So I started listing them out to myself. I'm like, am I hungry? Am I tired? Do I need to hug? Am I lonely? And the word lonely just slotted into the core of me

and I was like, oh, I'm lonely. And I thought, right, there we go, that's the need there. And I think sometimes we're so used to overlooking our needs that we don't even, we've lost the language of them for ourselves. But I love that. I love how you take away the morality around. I don't know what my needs are.

Because again, it's so easy for all of us to struggle with something and immediately convert that into badness or something wrong with me. Even like I'm trying to figure out my needs, okay, I have some needs and you're right. Sometimes you go into a store and you think, I do need new clothes. I don't know what I want, but I don't know exactly what I need, but I know I'm going to go try some things on. And then

you try something on, you say it fit, and you're like, awesome, I found something. Most people don't say to themselves, God, what is wrong with me that I didn't know that I needed this red and pink polka-dotted shirt. I should have known I was looking for this. No one says that. They just think, wow, cool. I went through a process and I found something that worked. So so empowering to think about our needs in that way. I'm just going to try the things on. I don't have to know if it fits and trust over time that my body will just kind of click with something.

Yeah, but this is what we do with our kids, isn't it? And there's always a little us inside of us. And for some of us, that little us never really learnt the value or the language for their needs. Or maybe they just hit them because, so for me, when I was young, my sister had cancer, so there was so much going on that I wanted to be neat and tidy and almost needless, I didn't want to add to the burden, so for me, my needs just got pushed down. I didn't really value them, I didn't really have them validating because I found it hard to talk about them. So, you know, for me, I need to go through that process. And I think as soon as we add that compassion

and release that expectation of ourselves, we're less likely to get stuck. Because that shame and that self-judgment and that self-criticism that comes in those moments of frustration or rage or irritability, because we don't like it, we don't like ourselves and we like that. It doesn't fit with that view of how we think we should be as moms. And as soon as we release some of that shame and that judgment, we can see it for what it is. That is just a little flag that pops up and says, Hey, you need something. Something's not quite right here. Are you okay? What do you need? How can we start speaking to that little version of us inside that, you know,

just like I do with my kids, are you okay? Maybe they're upset about something and I just want to gently find out what that is so that maybe I can sit with them in that or help them support them. Shame, compassion, blame, curiosity. I'm just thinking about these various ways we can react to those moments of that rage coming out.

So can you explain, I know you explain this so beautifully, like what, what does shame and blame really do to us after those moments? Yeah, so they just keep us stuck in that place because it's almost as if let's say there's, there's a need for support or you're going through something you've tucked it away because life is busy and fast and actually you're really sad about something that has happened and it's just pushed down

and pushed down and it's an unmet need to talk and unmet and undisclosed and unvalidated feeling and it just comes out and then we pile on that, we pile on that frustration and we kiss our kids good night and we think I'm gonna be better tomorrow. I'm gonna try harder when we push further and we push further and we try harder when we up the pressure and then we're more like, you know, that just adds it all on. So when we feel that guilt,

it's thinking actually that guilt has purpose. It's there to say, right, let's do something about this. It's not saying, because I've got many friends who will say to me, and they worry about it, everyone shouts at their kids, and I'm like, do you know what? I am worried about it, because to me it's something that I want to work on. I'll say, I might even say to my case, you know, I'm really sorry that my emotions came out like that. I'm really sorry that I did shouting, and they might say, it's okay, mommy. I'm really sorry that my emotions came out like that. I'm really sorry that I did shouting. And they might say, it's okay, mommy. I'm like, actually, do you know what? It's not how, it's not how I ideally want to be. It's not how I want to talk sometimes. So I'm tied and I'm grumpy and

I'm going to work on that. You know, so actually it's taking, it's being a counter one, it's taking responsibility and it's thinking, where would you like to be? And I always say it's not all of the time but more of the time. So as we work on these things, we have to have compassion and grace for ourselves because we're not perfect. And as we know children don't need a perfect parent to prepare them for a very imperfect world. So it's recognizing that when that guilt is there, it's set a prompt us, not to shame us. We can slip into that shame, I am bad, I am wrong, I am not good enough, all we can go into that,

let guilt prompt us to think, right, what's going on here? How can I resource myself? What can I do, what can I read, what can I listen to, which of Dr. Beck is podcast might be helpful right now? You know, and it's meeting, it's meeting that need because we want to do well. We don't need to do perfectly, but we want, we want to do well. So it's letting that guilt prompt you has a purpose. We don't need to

fear it. It's just horrible when it turns into that shame and we do not need that because then we're stuck in it. We're stuck. That's exactly right. And, you know, I think about us so similarly, maybe it was slightly different language, right? I agree. Gil? Gil is a really helpful emotion.

I always think Gil reminds me what my values are. Like, I'm happy that something reminds me of my values when I'm in a bad place. It helps me reorient. And I think how guilt for everyone listening, how I think about guilt is different from shame. Guil allows me to see my behavior as not in line with my values, while holding, kind of who I am as a person, a separate from my behavior,

essentially I'm a good person who did a not so good thing. My behavior with the yelling, not so good, not in line with my values, my personhood, my identity remains good. I'm good inside. To me, shame is very different in that we use some behavior to essentially define and take over our personhood. So yeah, I still yell that's still not great in either scenario, guilt or shame, but in shame what happens is Essentially my behavior collapses into my identity. I am bad because I did a bad thing and so there's there's no quick and easy way You know to

To cope with with that difference, but I do think that's like a little bit of a shorthand when you're in that spiral That's probably shame and not guilt. And just to almost hold your hands out and say, here I am as a person, I'm a good person, and look that way. And then look at the other way, the other hand, and say, here's that thing I did. Yep, that was not so good.

And I find that useful. I'm a good person, and then I look the other way, who did not such a good thing. And the only way we can cope and move forward is from a place to feeling good inside. Because as long as you feel bad inside, your entire energy has to go into kind of surviving that feeling, there's no growth there.

There's no growth in survival mode, right? Finding that goodness, reminding yourself, I'm still a good person. I always say to parents, because they say the same thing, well, am I going to let my kid off the hook, right? You're not letting anyone off the hook. I always think you're keeping someone on the hook. If you actually want to help someone change, if you want them to be responsible for change, you have to hold your own goodness or that person's goodness. If you want to let them off the hook, blame and shame and punish away, punish yourself, punish your kid, that's actually where you let some off the hook because it's impossible to change. Yeah, so true. And I think a good way to determine

whether you're feeling guilt or shame is to think, are you moving towards the thing, the resource, the support that is going to help you or are you actually moving away? Because what's the point? I'm going to fail anyway. I'm just a terrible person. My kids deserve more than this and then we're just swimming around in it and we're less likely to do the thing whether it's rest or have that conversation because we're so embarrassed about it. You know, is it moving you towards that thing or is it moving you away? I love all these images that we're so embarrassed about it. You know, is it moving you towards that thing or is it moving you away? I love all these images that we're working with.

Love an image. Hey, so I wanna let you in on something that's kind of counterintuitive about parenting. The most impactful way we can change our parenting actually doesn't involve learning any new parenting strategies. The most impactful way we can change our parenting is by giving ourselves more resources so we can show up as sturdier so we can show up as calm amidst the inevitable chaos. It's what our kids need from us more than

anything else. This is why I'm doing my mom rage workshop again. I'm doing it again because it is one of my most popular ones to date. It's coming up July 19th, but no worries if you can't make it live. It'll be available as a recording for whenever you have the time. I promise it's really the best investment we can make, not only in ourselves, but also in our kids. Can't wait to see you there at goodinside.com. So I wanna move to, I know a question

probably on many people's mind. What can I do proactively, you know, to have fewer of these moments, to have less rage build up and then kind of come out when everything's overflowing. Because that's, I think that's what's better for everyone involved. Yeah, and I think it's really just starting to notice and ask yourself, I just use these two little questions, what do I feel, what do I need? You know, we check in with our kids often, don't we? We monitor them, we just kind of give, we just glance at them, make sure that they're okay,

make sure that they're not kind of looking really hungry or really sleepy or kind of starting a fight with one another and we just kind of, we're just aware. And I think when we notice ourselves checking in with our kids, what would it be like just to say to yourself, feeling need, feeling need? What do I feel?

What do I need? Might be nothing or it might be like, oh, I'm just feeling really home or I know and I really need a way. You know, just starting to become sensitive and aware of what those needs are, even if you can't meet them then, just even acknowledging it, naming it, noticing it, is validating. It's saying, I'm matter. So that, you know, sometimes we don't realize that we're at that place before we just hit the crash. You know, something happens, a cereal box falls out the cupboard

and we're a mess. Yes. Because we haven't noticed that actually we've been overlooking these things so chronically. And then we shame ourselves because we're like, oh my goodness, why am I so upset about this? You know, sometimes it is that straw that breaks the camel's back that finds us on the floor on a Wednesday afternoon, you know, having viscerally rored like a lighten because I can't even remember what the trigger was at that moment, but it would have been something small. Yeah. But actually, you know, and it's seeing it's looking behind and thinking instead of being cross with myself or what just happened that seemed so insignificant, what about looking back and

thinking, what contributed that, what needs my ever looking, how can I start just making space for them in normal life, day-to-day life, because the more we give, the more we need it, simple science, isn't it? We know that when it comes to our car, we put the fuel in, the longer we drive the more fuel we need, yet with ourselves, I think, you know, we just look for all the hacks, the coffee, that any way to kind of shortcut meeting a need so that we can just subdue it and silence it and tuck it away. And these things just build.

They just become more urgent. I think that's really powerful that idea of shortcuts. I'm not going to remember, right? I don't remember where I read this, but someone said, like, you know, there's always two problems with shortcuts. You get somewhere unprepared, right? Or you get somewhere before you're supposed to be there. And it's interesting, right, with self-care.

Like is a shortcut to self-care, right, having a cup of coffee? Well, it might not be. You might actually need more time than that. You might need to do something different. And, you know, I think another piece that we haven't gotten to yet is this is so much bigger than any one of us in terms of our, you know, pattern of not listening to or getting to know or meeting our own needs. Right, we are up also against this, you know, huge, you know, societal construct around motherhood as such selflessness.

It's always a term that I find terrifying the idea of a mother as selfless or father or any parent as selfless like You know, I always think about a parent as like the leader of a family or the CEO I just don't know anyone who wants a selfless CEO of anything like you want someone to be without a self that's actually like the most terrifying image Yeah, well when you strip it back like that, you know I think we think about it is giving and loving and you know I started motherhood thinking that to love and this is the narrative that I learned as a child that to love is to give yourself away without question, without, you know, without really showing the cost and I think, you know, our kids need us to have a self because

that is how they learn, you know, is it that all of these emotions stop when you become a mum, the rage, the boredom, the frustration, the apathy, the, you know, all of those things, do they just stop when we become mum's? Because sometimes they feel like that's the pressure that we place upon ourselves is that when we have a baby, we lose half the spectrum of human emotion and we feel cross with ourselves when we feel anything other than that caricature, ideal of nurturing and loving and sacrificial. We give ourselves away and then what we got left. And I think it can be pretty practical sometimes. And to me, the idea of motherhood as selflessness

or self-sacrificial, I can just say for me, does not serve me. That idea does not serve me. Period. That to me as an adult is enough to rally around something different. It sounds like it doesn't really serve you either. No, gosh, no, and it doesn't serve my kids. it doesn't serve my family and it doesn't serve my friendships.

And I think this is what I started to realize when, so my second, my lovely, deeply-feeling kid had silent reflux and it went and I diagnosed the first kind of six months of his life, so he's greened and screamed and it was awful. And I tried and I tried and I tried to fix the world and I couldn't and I had less and less resources. And I remember just feeling like an utter, I felt like I was bad inside. I felt like if I was good inside, I would have been able to be enough for my child. So I kind of almost took and absorbed all of the blame and the pain and the difficultness about that situation. And I remember thinking, I have pushed on and pushed on

and pushed on because I felt this is what I should do. It's a good mum. And then I started to realize, I wasn't happy. I wasn't happy. I was, it wasn't just that the situation was difficult. It was just that I had nothing left of myself. I didn't even have a sense of humor anymore. Because we need energy to laugh.

We need energy to rationalize anxious thoughts. We need energy to coach ourselves through moments where we feel tempted to compare the living daylights out of ourselves against what we see on social media. We need energy to engage in other people to invest in relationships. And I think I had seen this giving of myself away

as love, when actually the in reality, chronically, it stopped me being able to truly give and receive love in a way that made life a filling in a way that it should be. So I would love to end with kind of taking some of this and turning it into some kind of really practical in the moment and kind because I know people listening to you saying, okay, yes, probably that idea of motherhood or fatherhood or self-sacrifice that doesn't serve me either and just saying that out loud is so powerful it takes away judgment just whether an idea serves you or not does that serve me it does not serve me if we go with that. Another idea serves you or not. Does that serve me? It does not serve me if we go with that. Then I think putting that into action involves these moments of like, how do I actually carve

out time for myself? What do I say to myself to motivate doing that? And what do I say maybe to my kids essentially in those moments? And I would love Anna for you to go first. And it could be on something different, but I love a real you have about, and it involves you swimming. Yeah. Can you speak about that?

And maybe relate that to, in a moment that you are choosing to say go swimming as an act of fulfilling a need you have. What do you say to yourself? To convince yourself this is important. And what might you say to a kid who, let's be honest, is that the door saying, no, or can I come with you?

Right? Yeah. So you know what, That was transformational for me, this realization, but in, in doing these things to fill myself up, I was loving my children. I was literally equipping myself to be able to respond and react more lovingly to them. I was widening that gap between that reaction, that immediate, whatever it was, the sniping remark or the shout. I was widening that gap between that reaction, that immediate, whatever it was, the sniping remark or the shout. I was widening that gap between what I sometimes felt like doing because I'm human and I have a reaction and a nervous system response to something and sometimes I just want to run out of the house, but I'm not going to do that. And I'm far less

likely to do that when I've had some breathing space, some time, some little something that invests back into myself. And it's not overlooking those small things, even if it's 10 minutes to do a quick walk around the block and ground myself in nature and takes them deep breaths. Something is always better than nothing. But I started realizing that these things are acts of love towards my children, because they literally, I remember saying to my therapist once, in one of the pandemic, I said, it's like my parenting depends on me going for a walk.

She said, yeah, Ana, because it does. And it was like, wow. And I started seeing these things that historically for me have been so ridden with guilt. And you know, know all I feel bad doing this and you know just it really I started it was like I just took these hazy old glasses off and started seeing these things for what they were. And a shower that I used to brand a self-care were hey I've tipped the self-care box I had a shower my husband doesn't come out the shower and go where hey I've tipped the self-care box or I've had a glass of water, where hey, go me, I had to start upping my level of what that actually meant for me. You know, what's ref, what's kind of refill and refuel me, it doesn't matter as much

to what it is, but what it gives me, it doesn't need to look like it does be a mate or someone else on the internet, it's what gives, what gives you something. And as for the kids, they know that I do these things and I say,, no, mommy's gonna go and do her workout now. Here you go, you watch this for a little bit and they can come see me if they need anything but they just, as I've implemented it more into my life, it's just become more normal for them. They know they understand they might not always like it

but they benefit. They might not like it sometimes but they benefit. And that is far more important. I can deal with their momentary dislike when I know what I'm giving them as a result. I love that. And I think it's Glenn and Doyle who talks about, you know, our kids learn what love is and our kids learn what parenthood is from us. And they'll repeat that, right? So the message you want to give your kids around, what does it mean? What does a mother, right? How does a mother love and what ways to herself, to her kids?

They really benefit from having a mom who says, I'm going to take a swim. Yes, that is important, right? And I'm going to exercise because it's for myself. For me, one thing I think about here is how important it is for me to go out with girlfriends or for me to go out with my husband and another couple without kids. All right. And how important it is to maintain those other parts of me, part of friend, part of colleague, part wife, right? All the parts of me that are not mom, right? That being a mom is a part of me.

I would say it's an important part of me, but I really mean this. It's still a part of me. It's a part of me. And if I don't attend to those other parts, the whole system breaks down because I am not meant to turn into one of my parts. Nothing works well. And so I think about, you know, the times that I carve out, you know, a dinner with a girlfriend and then I can't put my kids to bed or me and my husband both go out, right? And I do think there's

something about really owning this to our kids that's so important because I think when they hear our hesitation, you know, we're almost, when we ask for permission, you have soccer with your friends, you know, I have to go out with my friends like, whoa, of course they protest more because what they really hear is, my mom isn't so sure it's safe to go out with her friends. She's asking me like a five year old essentially for permission. That doesn't feel good for anyone because it's just a reversal of rolls and it feels so good really to say to my kids in such a straightforward way. I love being your mom and I love being dad's wife and part of being a wife is actually spending time with your husband

without your kids here. That's really important. That's why we go to dinner on Thursday nights with no kids. And it's so liberating to hear myself say that. I actually think it's so comforting for a kid to hear that in such a straightforward way. And so I think what I say to myself before that, to motivate that is some version of, there are so many parts of me and all of them are worthy of attention. Right? Motherhood is a part of me. And that's only one part.

And that allows me to own it. And then when my kids still do, because of course they do, they're independent people, say, no, but I want you to put me to bed. I can empathize. Oh, you wish Mommy could stay tonight. I know you never like when a babysitter puts you to bed. I get that, it's gonna be one of the harder nights and I know you can get through it. I actually can empathize with my kid

because I don't see their protest as a sign I'm doing something wrong because I've already convinced myself of the importance of this decision. Powerful stuff. And then when you acknowledge all those different parts of yourself, instead of just living the one and deciding that that's the okay one and all the other ones after, all the other parts have to live in the shadows and then resentment comes in.

Yeah. Like fuck that. Is that okay? Right? Yeah. You can say that. Yeah. Yeah. I said it. Because the kids will feel that. Yeah. And what is it, is it young that says how, you know,

one of the biggest gifts was essentially we can give our children is the lived life of a mother. Oh, a lived life. They are watching us not be self-less, not being self-ish, but being self to show them that they can grow up and be self-too. When they grow up, they don't have to stop seeing their friends. They don't have to stop being up to sit and chill and so for. They don't have to stop having fun.

They can carry on being their self too. First of all, you and I could talk forever and I know there'll be another opportunity or I hope there will. The way I love to end podcasts is to give listeners three takeaways. So so many important things, but we all know me and you two, right? We're moms and multiple kids, so I'm gonna just tell me the things. Like I had too many things in my head. So I'm gonna ask you to take number one and three

and I'll jump in with number two. Okay. So if listeners are taking away three things from this conversation, what would those three things be? Feeling neat, feeling need, asking yourself, is there a reminder on your phone right on the back of your hand? FN, what do I feel? What do I need? Don't need to act on it now. You don't even need to understand why, just acknowledge it and vocalize it to yourself. Yeah. Okay, I'm going to take number two.

Ask yourself right now. What part of me can I identify? That's important beyond my role as a parent. And it doesn't have to be a friend or a wife. It can be a dancer. It can be a baker. Even though you've never been a professional baker, you just like to bake. What other part of me? Can I identify beyond my role as a parent? And can I give that part a little bit more attention and time this week? Brilliant. I'm going to think about that one as well. Say my third one would be, see, when you feel guilt, see it is there, is purposes to prompt you to think about a need that might have been overlooked is not there to shame you. What might it be prompting you to do?

Love that. Now can you tell everyone how they can get more of you? Because I know everyone like me will want to follow up. So I'm on the gram Instagram at Anna Martha, Edablanay, M-A-T-H-U-R. I've got Bix. I've got one called my no mother about wearing anxiety and motherhood. I've got one called Know Your Worth, which is about self-esteem, boundaries, people pleasing, and then one recent one called the little book of calm for new moms, which really everyone says is

relevant regardless of how much your kids are, but it's just a little book of emotions and you just skip to the emotion that you feel. You don't read it front to the back and you just get little kind of pep talks and words of encouragement, some ways of untangling that feeling. And yeah, I've got a pop-car school with the therapy edit, which is all little 10, 20-minute-long ramblings like this in chats with guests. I love how well you understand a parents experience even that. Like this book is not meant to be read from tobacco. I hope everyone here heard that because that's a book I really want.

Right? The book that you're like, this is meant to read in like two minute chunks. Right? Yeah, absolutely. That's why my mind is at the moment. Well, thank you so much for being here. I love this conversation that happened as we came together. And can't wait for our next opportunity to connect. I loved it too. Thank you for the privilege.

Thanks for listening to Good Inside. I love co-creating episodes with you based on the real life tricky situations in your family. To share what's happening in your home, you can call 646-598-2543 or email a voice note to goodinsidepodcast at gmail.com. There are so many more strategies and tips I want to share with you and so many good inside parents I want you to meet. I'm beyond excited that we now have a way to connect and learn together. Head to GoodInside.com to learn more about Good Inside

Membership. I promise you you're going to love it. It's totally game-changing. And if you're not already receiving my free weekly email, go to GoodInside.com to sign up. You don't want to miss it. Good Inside with Dr. Becky is produced by Mary Kelly. Our senior producer is Beth Roe, and our executive producers are Erica Belski and me. If you enjoyed this episode, please do take a moment to rate and review it. Or share this episode with a friend,

or family member, as a way to start an important conversation. Let's end by placing our hands on our hearts and reminding ourselves, even as I struggle, and even as I have a hard time on the outside. I remain good inside. you