Good Inside with Dr. Becky - Raffi on Curiosity, Play, and Treating Kids with Respect

Episode Date: May 31, 2022

Down by the Bay. Baby Beluga. Bananaphone. Any of these ring, ring, ring a bell? If so, it’s likely that this week’s podcast guest, Raffi, was the soundtrack to your childhood and might just be a go-to for your children now, too. The musician created songs for kids that were just as heartfelt and gentle as they were fun and silly—all inspired by his belief in honoring children as whole people. He recently joined Dr. Becky for a live conversation to share some of the big ideas behind his beloved music and answer questions from Good Inside members. The two discuss their shared values of compassionate curiosity, playfulness, and treating kids as unique individuals. Most importantly, they touch on a foundational truth: When we raise children with love and respect—when we see them as good inside—we help change the world. Join Good Inside Membership: https://bit.ly/3cqgG2A Follow Dr. Becky on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/drbeckyatgoodinside Sign up for our weekly email, Good Insider: https://www.goodinside.com/newsletter Pre-order Dr. Becky's upcoming book, Good Inside: A Guide to Becoming the Parent You Want to Be: www.goodinside.com/book Order Dr. Becky's book, Good Inside: A Guide to Becoming the Parent You Want to Be, at goodinside.com/book or wherever you order your books. For a full transcript of the episode, go to goodinside.com/podcast

You're listening to Good Inside with Dr. Becky. My guest is someone who, quite possibly, may have been the soundtrack to your youth, and may also be a staple in your home today. Down by the bay, baby beluga, oh Mr. Sun, the list of favorites goes on and on. It is truly an honor to have Canadian music sensation Rafi. Join me in today's episode. Rafi and I discuss the importance of treating kids as unique individuals, why play is so important, and of course the power

of song. And another special thing about today's episode, we recorded this live in front of a good inside audience over Zoom, something I've never done before. Anyways, I'm so excited to share this with you. With all that in mind, let's jump in. Hey, Sabrina. Hey. So I've been thinking about toys recently. I don't want the toy to do that much of the work.

I want the toy to inspire my kid to do the work. Because actually the toys that get really busy and do a lot of things, kids actually lose interest in so quickly. Oh, totally. There's certain toys that my kids have just played with throughout the years. I have a six-year-old and a three-year-old. Like what? So I have these wooden blocks from Melissa and Doug.

They're super simple. Just plain wooden, no color. And my kids love them. They're always building castles or like a dinosaur layer. And then my oldest will tell my youngest to like decorate them after he's built this crazy cool structure. My go-to's are Melissa and Doug too. I feel like we have this ice cream scooper thing that my kids use when they were two and then they used again when they were developing better fine motor skills and then for my kind of four-year-old,

my seven-year-old still using it in imaginative play. I really only like talking about items and brands that we actually use in our own home and Melissa and Doug, I just don't know if there's any other brand I feel so good about naming. The way that their toys actually inspire, creativity, and open-ended, screen-free child-led play is just unmatched. And like what's honestly so exciting is to be able to offer everyone listening to this podcast, 20% off. Visit molissaandoug.com and use code Drbecky20DRBECKY20 for 20% off your order. Molissa andoug timeless toys endless possibilities. and dog timeless toys, endless possibilities. Hi, I'm Dr. Becky, and this is Good Inside.

I'm a clinical psychologist and mom of three on a mission to rethink the way we raise our children. I love translating deep thoughts about parenting into practical, actionable strategies that you can use in your home right away. One of my core beliefs is that we are all doing the best we can with the resources we have available to us in that moment. So even as we struggle and even as we are having a hard time on the outside, we remain good inside. Hi Rafi, it is such an honor, truly such an honor, so exciting to have you here today. Hello Becky, how nice to be with you.

I have listened to so much of your music over my entire lifetime. It has hit me in so many different moments before I was a parent, while I'm a parent. And there's just something so unique and special that you do. And what I'm so excited about is to give so many people probably a broader sense of you than they might encounter only through your songs. And I think that kind of deeper understanding probably will help more and more people understand why your music brings so much to life and resonates so strongly with kids and adults.

So I'm just super excited for this conversation. That's very kind. Thank you. So you and I, I think, share actually so many ideas and even kind of goals around family systems and how we think about kids and want kids to be treated. And that's always so fun to see two people who have so many, I think, similar ideas then be able to express those ideas and reach families in so many different ways. And I would love to hear kind of some of your ideas around kids as unique individuals.

And I want, if it's okay to read something that I know you've said, which is this moment where you said you were seated in front of about 30 kids and you were preparing to sing a song. And you said this light went off in your head, where I suddenly noticed that each member of the group was a single individual person. It was a profound wake-up call for me to see who I was with. I never again missed the individual child within the group. And it was this experience that kindled my desire to understand the childhood years more

fully. I'd love to hear more from you about that. So true, and I still remember that moment. I think it was the first grade class. I was singing some songs. And when that aha moment came for me, that sparked the desire to understand the individuality of children

within our collective experience of children as young people, very young people, almost at that time for me. And our individual path in life, of course, happens in the early years, in the family dynamic. Caregivers in the family have a prime, experiential factors in how a child grows. And because my work is based on respect for the child as a whole being, as a whole person, as respect has been the core value in all of my music, all of my work. The thing is respect for personhood from birth

is what my philosophy of child honoring is all about too. When you come to a child with respect, you value that child's presence. You value that child's way of being. You're curious about the child. The child feels seeing, feels heard, feels respected. That's a lovely, lovely way to begin anything with anyone, isn't it? Without a doubt, I think is what I would want, you know, from someone.

I think I wanted one of the reasons it's so tricky and practice is we sometimes see something in our kid that we're uncomfortable with or that wasn't respected or honored within us. And we want so badly to give something so different to our kid and kind of yet can struggle with that. Like, moment of either kind of being triggered or being able to kind of be grounded and do exactly what you're saying. Wait, my kid is an individual. My kid is their own unique person. And this phrase that comes to mind for me, I'm curious what you think is, I don't know

as you were talking about a kid as such an individual in a group. I don't know why I pictured some kid at like a birthday party where 29 kids are playing and they're the only kid who's like clinging to the parent or not wanting to play. And the phrase that always comes up for me is something like, oh, there's something that doesn't feel great or you're not ready to join the group yet, right? Where we might not even understand, but I think what you're saying is just respecting that something is happening for them, something real.

Yes, there's a reason for how children are in any given moment. If you're curious, that keeps you on the respectful side instead of judgment. There's a reason why, I mean, it's so simple, but actually there's, maybe it's also the way you say it. It feels very big. There's a reason why kids do the things they do always. And how they are in any given moment. Just as there would be for adults. So, a respectful approach works well. Because it's inquisitive, it's curious, it's compassionate, you see? And coming at those moments with respect, I feel like you kind of name these different factors, honoring that something real is happening, and then kind of activating curiosity about

what it might be without knowing, you might not know. And this is all part of conscious parenting. And I love what child psychologist Gordon Newfeld says about quote unquote misbehaviors. When we see a child who we feel is misbehaving, that's the word we use to use. Let's just say a behavior that's not quite what we, we need in that moment of the interaction

or not helpful for the child either. Maybe the child's out we need in that moment of the interaction or not helpful for the child either. Maybe the child's out of control in that moment or stirred up or anxious, right? I love what Gordon Newfell says. He says, first connect, then redirect the behavior. First connect. I love that. I love that too. I'm sure these all will relate. Another thing around kids and child development, I think we share, is seeing kids as explorers and something you've said, which really strikes me, is kids kind of spend their days trying to make sense

out of the world, searching for meaning, figuring things out. Their perception is magical, and their questions are intelligent requests for information. I'd love you to expand on that. I think you're reading from my autobiography, aren't you? It's called The Life of the Children's Trubidor. One vivid example of that is, I did a concert in 1985 or so in California, and it went

really well and I got an encore. So there I was, I was coming back on the stage feeling pretty good to know, and people were still applauding and I was just acknowledging the moment and when the applause died down, a voice from the young voice from the front called out, why is he coming back? And everyone laughed, but I didn't. I said, oh, that's a good question. Because before my last song I had said, and in closing, I'd like to sing this song, and then I'd walked off, and now I was coming back. And I said to that, whoever that child was, in the general vicinity where the voice came from, I said, concert goes well and people want to hear more music, they let you know by clapping a lot. And that's why I came back to sing another song. And I'm just connecting that in my mind to what you said before around misbehavior.

I've never, so I love talking to so many different people. I always find talking to different people, actually like originate a thought that I truly have never had before. And so often in kids, again, quote, misbehavior, there's a question they're trying to figure out. Right? Even the other day, you know, a parent shared, you know, I feel like my three year old is like actually actively using their words to be mean to me.

Like they're like they know the impact. And there is something I find interesting around age three where kids often do realize, wow, my words can hurt people. That actually is something really interesting for a child to try to figure out, right? And the idea even there that there's a meaningful exploration, not some sadistic impulse. Right? Uh, it's, it's a powerful framework to keep in mind for kids. Agreed. When you're nonjudgemental or certainly if you're non punitive in your approach, if you're compassionate in your approach, you're likely to see the moment clearly. And again, for everyone listening, that doesn't mean if my kid is saying nasty things to me, I personally would say, wow, look at my explorer. They're just so amazing. I just love every moment of this, right? I might even say to my child, hey, I need to take a deep breath right now,

or hey, there's a different way you can say this to me. Right. I'm really glad you're saying that because we don't want to be confused here, but with anyone thinking that we're talking about permissive parenting, not at all, not at all. In fact, child honoring is not at all about permissive parenting. It's about authoritative parenting and respectful relations are at the heart of that. Respectful love is the first principle of child honoring. Isn't it interesting that the word respect shows up in the first principle as an adjective, respectful love? I'll

give you an example from my own life about why the word respect is so important. My dear parents, who are departed, they love me tremendously, and that was the grace in my early years. But that love often came with shaming, with coercion, with I was hit on occasion. That's not the kind of love little raffy needed. So while I felt loved, and that was the grace of the situation, I did not feel seen and respected for who I felt I was. That's what children need from us is to feel respected for who they feel there. And unfortunately, in our society, so many of us have experienced trauma in the early years. This is why Dr. Gabor Mate is doing his brilliant work on early trauma, and addressing

it so that we don't have to carry it all our lives and be subconsciously driven by our early wounding. Right? And I get into this in my autobiography as well. The years of emotional growth work that I did, which was very liberating, very healing for me. Yeah, and just to further that theme, because I know this difference between respectful parenting or sometimes I consider it's, there's a sturdiness to that parenting. It's, I'm aware of my own boundaries and I can honor them and respect you as a whole person at the same time.

There's a multiplicity there. There's a lot of confusion where a lot of parents, you know, they've been given the message that if I don't punish my child's behavior, I'm colluding with it. I am permitting it. I am encouraging it. Yeah, and you're shaking your head.

What do you say to parents who, there's a lot of parents who worry about that or have been told that that's true? Would yourself in the child's place? How would you like to learn? What's your preferred way of learning? You really want to be shamed and punished? Is that how you learn?

Not me. I wouldn't vote for that any day. No child would. You make the space for understanding. You do that through love and through respect and holding the tensions sometimes when a behavior is unacceptable, you hold the tension of the moment. And in your love and your compassion, you'll go somewhere, the moment will go somewhere good and open windows of understanding for that child and for yourself in the process. I think that's exactly right. And your response to that is so similar to mine.

I think it's this kind of like embodied response. So okay, let me check in with myself. How do I learn? How do I grow? Either what would I want as a child or even everyone thinking now, if you were having a rough couple months in your workplace and your, quote, performance wasn't great or you did have to give a big presentation and you really weren't prepared and it went horribly and your boss came to you.

Do you need your salary docked or do you need someone to say some version of, hey, you know, that performance, you know, I know we can do better and let's figure out what happened and figure out what you need from here, right? That doesn't mean your boss permitted it. It doesn't mean your boss wants more bad presentations. You don't need to be scolded. You need to be encouraged and supported to understand and do better. I love that. Let's talk about play because I love play, you love play. So many of the songs I love from you, there's such playfulness. And so I want to read something that I love that you said.

I'm full of admiration for who I call humanity's primary learners, who at the time of their life when evolution has seen fit to give them a mode of play as Their essential mode of being they're learning the most Sophisticated human tasks of speech and language acquisition and grammar and syntax that told me something profound That play is Intelligence that we're not supposed to lose during our lives. I'm actually tearing up as I say that. Well, I composed myself.

Can you speak more to that? Thank you so much, Becky. It's so true. I mean, if play is deemed a mode of being that accompanies in our earliest years, the most sophisticated human tasks of language acquisition and syntax and grammar and comprehension and oh my goodness, there must be a reason for that foundational way of being, which is what play is, and it's important to us as human beings throughout life.

And I can talk to you about this for a long time, but let me just say that children are embodied joy. They seek joy. That is who we are as human beings. where our essence is love, love making, and love ability. Our essence is love, and our preference is joy. It's what we seek. And play keeps us in a state of joy. My dog keeps me in a state of love, by the way.

And I play with my dog all the time. She loves to play about children being humanity's primary learners. Can I talk about that for a moment? Please. Let's think about this. A three-year-old, a five-year-old, what do they love to do? They love to play. Because that's how they're trying on the world for size.

They're imagining scenarios and they're acting them out. Free play is so important, undirected, free play when children get together. They have a great time. They know how to do it. They don't need us spiting in and trying to direct them through free play, social and emotional learning is happening. Emotional intelligence is being furthered. So I could go on about play for a long time, but yeah, this is a wonderful thing. Yeah, it's playing, yeah, that's it. That's right.

Is that the song, the ring, ring, ring, banana phone? Is that the song that comes to mind for you? I'm curious when you think about play in your music, It's probably an impossible question because it's infused into everything. But what are some of the top songs that come to mind for you? And you think about play for kids or maybe the songs are just moments of your pure play, you know, that kind of manifested into a song. But some songs are particularly about playing and some are passive, some some are passive, but yeah, banana foam, is the imagination has a great time in that song. Of course, puns are funny and we love them.

Down by the bay with all the rhyming fun, humor is a great part of play, playful way of being. Um, we're the species that likes to laugh. We, we love it actually, right? So in all these ways, you see our love and our joy is right there. Because that's who we are. A hundred percent. You know, one of the things I think I've written in a post on Instagram is that like fun is serious business. Like it's, it's important to be fun, right? And because it doesn't come so easily to some parents, some a lot of adults were never played with

or they've been encouraged to lose all the play in their lives into adulthood and reaccessing that with our children. It's not natural. And for anyone who listens and hears raffys so easily break into, you know, doododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododododod awkward and it doesn't come naturally, right? It probably, if it means anything, says how brave you are to consider kind of starting that new circuit or re-accessing a circuit that's always been there. And for many good reasons, you know, has had blocked access to. Who knows? Maybe that person wasn't encouraged to play. Maybe that person grew up in a punitive environment or a lesson respectful.

I think that's exactly right. And your songs, I know so many families, where play, it doesn't come naturally. And putting on a raffi song brings celebrity and a playfulness. And therefore all the things, a connection, a respect, a seeing a child, a prioritizing a child's world, which of course it plays, it's close enough to the real world, I always think, but far enough away for a kid that they can try and explore all the things they want to try and explore. And your songs I feel for so many families, they allow that to kind of to be. Well, in the emotional learning that we're talking about, the arts figure prominently. It's not just songs and music, but imagine a child who doesn't paint or color, right?

Children often left her lawn. Their own devices present a play. You know, they they craft a play and they present it. There's so many ways, and children who dance, of course, movement, so many ways to be playful and experience that intelligence. Hey, so I want to let you in on something that's kind of counterintuitive about parenting. that's kind of counterintuitive about parenting. The most impactful way we can change our parenting actually doesn't involve learning any new parenting strategies. The most impactful way we can change our parenting

is by giving ourselves more resources so we can show up as sturdier so we can show up as calm amidst the inevitable chaos. It's what our kids need from us more than anything else. This is why I'm doing my mom rage workshop again. I'm doing it again because it is one of my most popular ones to date. It's coming up July 19th, but no worries if you can't make it live. It'll be available as a recording for whenever you have the time. I promise it's really the best investment we can make,

not only in ourselves, but also in our kids. Can't wait to see you there at GoodInside.com. That's such a nice lead in. I have two more ideas around children that I think we really share. I'm sure there's more than two, but such a nice lead into this idea that kind of the idea of children as creative. And in your words, I just love this. We humans were not created for obedience. We are made for creativity, and early on our unbound spirits dared to sing our own song. Our childhood imaginings form original futures and thought, word, and deed.

I said that. You said that. That was really, I don't know, or maybe someone wrote that for you, but they credit it to you. Obedience. This is a real goal that people believe, you know, should be held for children. They often say, I feel so bad. My kid is so not obedient.

Look at that child. Maybe they don't say the word obedient, because there's something that's just a little unsettling about the word, but obedience is such a priority. What is that? On the one hand, it's natural in a way for adults to seek to create environments where both the children and the adult are enjoying themselves.

And, you know, there are some rules that we may point to, say, you know, if we do this and this and this, we can all enjoy music time better. So during music time, let's do this and let's not do that. That kind of guidance is natural, but there's this about obedience. That's what I don't like. I don't like this. I didn't feel good when I was a child. And I think we can model a respectful way of being. And I think that's something we can do both at home. We can do it in a classroom, do in small situations, larger groups.

So, you know, there's a respectful way of being that we can model and that makes all of us feel better. And what I would add on is, you know, I don't know one parent who comes to me and says, Dr. Becky, I just, I want my 30-year-old child to be super obedient. I just want them to listen to everything other people say. No one says that, right? And there's a lot in between obedient and out of control.

There's a lot. And I often think, and parents in the good inside community talk about this a lot, this idea of we're parenting for the long run, right? We're not just parenting for the convenient moment today, even though there are so many inconvenient, exhausting moments, we're parenting because our kids actually are going to live most of their life when they're out of our house, you know, hopefully or, you know, and that obedience is never, it's never really a goal for adults. I don't think anyone really, you know, wants their 30-year-old kids saying, you know, my boss told me to do something totally inappropriate and wow, I did it and you would be so proud,

you know, that's just like not in our dreams. And keeping that in mind, I think helps us tolerate that kind of other goal of helping our kids harness like things like their individuality and their creativity. And like you said, putting up respectful boundaries and edges, we have to give those edges that container, but we can do that in a way that isn't kind of obedience forming.

Yes, and there's many ways to give cues to kids. I'll wait two minutes and I'll know you're ready. In two minutes, I'll know you're ready. Like what a lovely thing to say, like just, you know, it's so, oh, there's a cue there and the child is being invited to pick it up, you know, that's very, very different than if you don't blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, I mean this, I just want to put that hand away that fingeri, you're putting that pointer finger up and that glare in the eye, that Europe, you know, I think we've all seen that. Absolutely. You know, you're saying that about, I know you'll be ready is I make, it's me think about a time when my youngest was really resistant to changing diapers.

And it was, you know, it wasn't early verbally. So he wasn't saying much, but I knew he's going through something. He didn't want to. And I started to say to him, I think he was only like 15 months at the time. You seem not to want to change your diaper right now. I'm going to wait right here, come over when you're ready to do it. And he did, right? You know, I think a lot of parents think, oh, is my kid going to understand that? And to me, the answer is I think a lot of parents think, oh, is my kid gonna understand that? And to me, the answer is always there is outing, yes, they will.

They feel our intention, they feel their respect. I think right away, kids feel that. Yeah. And an example from my concerts, some song would be really exuberant and children rushed to the front of the, you know, to the stage, you know, they would leave their seats rushed to the stage while I was singing and I'd finish that song and then I had a quiet song coming up, I would say to them, I think

I'll wait until you're in your seats before I begin the next song. Yeah, I think I'll wait. That's all I would say. Sure enough, they would go right back to their seats. You know, it's a cue. Yeah, and it's so trusting, right? I'm guessing you probably agree that right? The kind of control and trust are opposites, right? So if you don't get in your seat, I'm not going to sing

the song. I can't imagine you saying that, but that, and nothing feels good. Right? It would ruin the moment. I would. So, you know, with my audience is always there's, well, hopefully, a respectful way of being that they feel. And it's interesting nowadays, though, there are so many blue-go-grads in my concert audience, and not that I've done a concert for two and a half years, but it's interesting. They anchor the energy of the whole group, these blue-go-grads, who themselves were fans

of my music when they were children. It's very interesting so that in recent years when I've come to my quiet song, thanks a lot, you can hear a pin drop in the hall. Actually, it has been quieter in recent years than say 20 years ago. I know this, I remember this. And that's because of so many tens of millions of blue grads in Canada and the United States. It's amazing, actually. My original philosophy called child honoring,

which came to me in a vision, by the way, in a peak experience, 25 years ago. And I knew at that time that it would be the work of the rest of my life. So in a way, it's become a second career for me. The mission of my foundation is to advance child honoring as a universal ethic, worldwide, to be lived in locally wise ways. And child honoring is all about the primacy of early years in human experience.

Developmentally speaking, the early years, which we call formative, are all important because when you're building a house you need a strong foundation and the early years are the time of that foundation. And when we say they're formative, what we mean is what's forming in those early years is nothing less than how it feels to be human. That's what's forming. That's the new F word I want people to know is formative. It's that important. So when we think of giving children our best, because that's a phrase I used to hear in the 60s, 70s. Let's give children our best. We now know that there are principles that can help us do that. Child honoring has nine principles. Respectful love is the first one. Diversity is the second one. A diversity of ways of

feeling human, diversity of foods, music, cultures, that being joined in this world. It's a very connective philosophy. It celebrates the young child as the universal human. You know why Becky? Because as you know, a baby, let's say a six month old baby, cross culturally is the same physiological being. Has exactly the same needs regardless of skin color or the family's social standing or the ethnic origin. It doesn't matter. This

is the universal human. It's in an infancy that we can see how much we are the same so that we can approach each other with curiosity and wonder rather than fear and anxiety. Difference should be interesting, not fearful. So I invite all of you to go to raffyfoundation.org will give you a riches of resources not only in parenting, but also in our duty as citizens to meet the climate emergency that we are in on behalf of our young and on behalf of all of us. You will feel empowered to be a changemaker in your home and in your communities, you'll feel a wealth of support and choosing conscious ways of living. Thank you so much for sharing all that with us. And before we transition to some kind of good inside community members questions, for

anyone listening, yes, we've had this kind of live recording where parents in the community are listening in and putting questions are so excited. One last thing, you know, one of the principles I'm guessing whether we both name it or not, that I just I'm guessing we both believe is that where kids adults too, where kids are good inside, they have this inherent goodness. And I think about this song, wrote inspired by the wisdom of trauma. And I want to read some of the lyrics. When a child is honored, valued, and respected, all that is good begins to grow. So with the help of wise ones, with the love of kind ones, they can thrive and carry on. We can thrive and carry on. We can thrive and carry on. Yes, yes. We can live wholeheartedly.

That song is so beautiful for anyone who hasn't heard it. The song for healing, I really encourage you to look that up. And it's okay, I want to move to some questions from the community members. And here's the first one. What was your favorite song as a child? And is it still your favorite song? I was raised in an Armenian family. So my mother's Armenian lullabies were my favorites. It was later when I was in Canada that I learned pop-op black sheep, for example,

or a twinkle, twinkle, Little Star, right? That came later. Is that still your favorite song? Twinkle, Twinkle. No, your song, the Armenian. The Armenian Lava Bies? Lava Bies? It was a long time ago.

No, my favorite song is never. Oh, I don't know. Some that you might know. Like, there's a little one about a baby whale. I think I know that song. When did you know that this work was your calling? 1978, around the time I was about to record Corner Grocery's story.

By then I made the transition from being a folk singer for adults to a children's entertainer when I understood how important music can be in the life of a young child for their social and emotional development. That's when I said myself, this is important work. I'm going to devote myself to this to becoming a children's entertainer or a family entertainer and I not look back since. Was there an experience you had? Was there something you witnessed around seeing the impact of song, some kind of moment?

Well, in the evolution of understanding of, you know, with children around who we are in their lives and so on, it occurred to me. And now also I was learning from the feedback of many, many listeners to my first two albums, which by that time had, I think the first one gone gold. Like it was just so popular, single songs for the very young, 45 years ago. I was learning from the feedback of everybody that these songs have a place, have a, their songs of joy and wonder and fun. I thought, is that a good thing?

One more question. My children will be moving from preschool to grade school soon, where play does not seem prioritized in the same way it does in preschool. How can we keep the spirit alive in our children when they're in a more controlled environment? Wow. I'm interested to know how you'd answer that question. I can't go. I may have some thoughts myself, but what would you say? Can I ask you about it? Yeah, I think the idea of making play a priority in our home is kind of a principle you can then a priority in our home is kind of a principle you can then kind of express in many ways. So, you know, I know one of my kids more than the others actually, it's like loves a million activities and he really does. He loves the sports. He loves, you know, and really thinking about,

okay, we're going to have some time where there's free play, right? That could change, you know, as a kid gets older, but some unstructured time. Or, you know, to me, we can keep play alive by thinking about play to kind of diffuse sometimes stressful moments. I, you know, I think about this moment, I'm laughing thinking about it, but, you know, we're just like a stressful family Sunday and we thinking about it, but, you know, we were just like a stressful family Sunday

and we had a family dinner and, you know, I was kind of like, oh, sit down and come on and it just, it wasn't feeling good. And one of my kids took a piece of pasta that was not sauceed and kind of just like threw it, right at the table. And at first, like me and my husband kind of tensed and I don't know what happened,

but I just reached into the bowl and grabbed a handful of pasta. It was because it was unsauce. And just said, postify and just throw it. It was like the opposite of stop throwing. And it turned into, honestly, one of the most fun family experiences we've had. And what was amazing to me is there was so much pasta everywhere, and of course when it falls, it breaks, you know, and everyone cleaned up.

No one even had to be asked, like the laughter and the fun and the play. Moments like that, they matter to kids. You know, I always think kids want to say, I come from a fun house. Sometimes we throw pasta. No, at the same time, if the question was about the learning environment being playful as opposed to not,

which is interesting. Sometimes, I think sometimes educators are under the misconception that if kids are having fun, if they're playing, that they're not learning, nothing could be further from the truth. In fact, young children learn best through play because that's the imaginative theater of the mind. I'm alive. So for young children, the first seven years, certainly I'm big on play as the mode of learning. And yeah, so in terms of in-school environment, if that school environment does seem

controlled, right? More kind of regimented. What's a parent? Yeah, what's a parent to do? I guess what maybe I might thought in response was we can make our home a place of play. That's something we always have control over. Well, also parents can, you know, group together. They're going to talk to the school people, principal, vice principal, teacher, you know, but I understand in that in many school districts, there's a push for, you know, measuring kids' performance at a young age and so on. I've never been a fan of that myself. Progressive educators, that's not where they live, if you know what I mean. Anything that we didn't get to that feels kind of, you know, top of mind or anything you want to kind of add at the end? I will say that if people want to feel connected to the work of child honoring, which has been as the same my second career,

we all know about my music, but if you want to feel connected to the child on Ring Philosophy, you could write to admin at raffyfoundation.org. And ask to be a friend of the foundation. You'll learn about our news first. You'll get our newsletters. So that'd be a good way of keeping in touch with me and this work as it evolves. And again, I would ask you to consider taking the online course in child honoring. It will give you so much. Child honoring isn't, is a connective

vision, a connective experience of what it feels to be human in a world of wonders. And maybe what I could do now is ask everyone to turn on their cameras. Rafi, as you're talking about connectiveness, right? I think I shared with you at the beginning, one of the most amazing things to me about, you know, this good inside platform and community is that it's made up of people. And I think almost 40 countries now and every continent but Antarctica and it is amazing how on the surface there's

so many differences we live with and so many times the threads the conversations are some version of me too. I have a hard time with this too right there with you. I'm going through it as well right in this this deep human connectedness and you asked how we could end with a hug. And so everybody with their cameras on. Yes, let's let's end with this group hug. I really if we could all take in what kind of someone looks like here, the way that they're connecting to you and reaching out and Rafi, thank you. I thank you for your decades of brilliance and music and ways of being such a connective tissue and families and between families and generations. So thank you and thank you for being here today. Be most kind, Becky. Thank you. And thank you for the work you do.

Thank you so much. If there's anyone who wants to unmute themselves and share with Rafi before we end just words around what him and his philosophy and his music has meant to you or your family, I'm sure. It's always a nice opportunity to hear that. Down by the bay is like my go-to, I'm a speech therapist and it does so many things. There's so much language and connection and the rhyming,

it's the best. I love it. Thank you. I'm a huge fan, fellow Armenian, by the way. Pativ, each bestest. And before going to bed, the kids always will request baby Beluga and then even yesterday, my son wasn't gonna brush his teeth. I said, okay, let's play the brush your teeth long. And right there, he just started doing it to the music,

to make me mimic the sound. So you're just a wonderful, lovely human being. Thank you for all that you've done for music. Just one to say that the second you started speaking, I had this like flood of nostalgia just from hearing your voice. It's like, your voice is my childhood. But then I would listen to your music all the time.

We had all your cassettes and we watched your concerts on VHS and now I just, I love playing your music for my kids and you're amazing. So I'm really star-structing you here. Thank you. I rock, I won't say your music as we're listening to all the songs. They're really arnestogic and they feel like a safe space

for my own childhood. And I love that they've become a safe place for my own daughter, for my niece and nephew. Thanks a lot is a calm down bedtime song. So thank you so much. Hi, Rafi. My name is Allison. I have two kids here in Kitchener, Ontario.

I just, I mean, it's a music background myself. I work in music education with kids, and I just think it's such a wonderful quality to your music that this is the second generation now in my family that is growing up listening to Rafi. And there's just, there's something in the music that is, as someone I said, is sort of calming and regulating and it's just so cool to see that in my own

kids now. Thank you everyone for joining us and I know we try at good inside to kind of transition from these really connected experiences to what's often the reality of sitting in a room alone, staring at a computer screen or having to kind of get back to that email. So to kind of bridge that gap, everyone wants to put their feet on the ground. You know, just take on a position. Maybe it's whatever you usually do.

I know I always say I put my hand on my heart. I'm actually going to do something all different. I kind of like this, this hug position. And I know Destiny modeled this in her talk, which I love. And just look around at this really at this sea of other people who like you are showing up are kind of forever learners and never knowers and who have so much support and wisdom and kind of showing up for each other in them. And it's just happening in such a palpable way all the time in the community and definitely here. And just, you know, we often don't pause and say something kind to

ourselves. I am worthy. I'm doing so much. I'm valuable. I'm a good parent. I'm a good person. So just tell yourself your job right now. Like, kind of, there's nothing more important right now. Then saying something kind to myself. I'm going to give yourself permission when we end the zoom to take kind of another few deep breaths before you go about the rest of your inevitably very busy day. And can't wait for the next time we see each other. Thank you everyone. Till next time. Becky, thank you so much for this wonderful space that we've shared today. Thanks for listening to Good Inside. I love co-creating episodes with you based on the real life tricky situations in your

family. To share what's happening in your home, you can call 646-598-2543 or email a voice note to Good Inside Podcast at gmail.com. There are so many more strategies and tips I want to share with you. And so many good inside parents I want you to meet. I'm beyond excited that we now have a way to connect and learn together. Head to goodinside.com to learn more about good inside membership. I promise you, it's totally game-changing. And follow me on Instagram and Facebook at Dr. Becky

at Good Inside for a daily dose of parenting and self-care ideas. Good Inside with Dr. Becky is produced by Beth Roe and Marie Cecil Anderson, an executive produced by Erica Belzky and me, Dr. Becky. and executive produced by Erica Belzky and me, Dr. Becky. If you enjoyed this episode, please take a moment to rate and review it or share this episode with a friend or family member as a way to start an important conversation. Let's end by placing our hands on our hearts and reminding ourselves, even as I struggle, and even as I have a hard time on

the outside, I remain good inside.