Good Inside with Dr. Becky - Revisit - A Plate of Shame
Episode Date: March 11, 2025This is a repeat of an earlier episode. Going out to dinner is not what it once was if you are bringing your kids. What used to be an easy book a restaurant and go, is a bit more complicated when it's... a party bigger than two. But we all need a break! We all deserve dinner out with or without our kids. This week, Dr. Becky talks to a parent about the public shaming she recently received when she took her kids out for an early sushi dinner. Get the Good Inside App by Dr. Becky: https://bit.ly/3WbIvzwFollow Dr. Becky on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/drbeckyatgoodinsideSign up for our weekly email, Good Insider: https://www.goodinside.com/newsletterOrder Dr. Becky's book, Good Inside: A Guide to Becoming the Parent You Want to Be, at goodinside.com/book or wherever you order your books.For a full transcript of the episode, go to goodinside.com/podcastTo listen to Dr. Becky's TED Talk on repair visit https://www.ted.com/talks/becky_kennedy_the_single_most_important_parenting_strategyToday’s episode is brought to you by Life360: As older kids approach their teen years, we want them to feel more independent. And this is also true: When we’re no longer the ones getting them from point A to point B, we need to know they’ve made it to their destination. So, what's one way we can keep our teens safe while validating their (developmentally appropriate) need for separation? Good Inside just teamed up with Life360, the leading family safety app that helps parents navigate this delicate balance, to bring you a FREE video series on how to talk about tough topics, like peer pressure and curfews, with your teen. With customized locations for frequent destinations like school and practice, automated arrival notifications, and even driving reports that help teach good behind-the-wheel habits, Life360 lets teens spread their wings while giving parents peace of mind. Visit Good Inside’s YouTube page—www.youtube.com/@ goodinside—to watch now! And to learn more about how Life360 can support your family’s safety journey, head to Life 360.com.Today’s episode is brought to you by CAMP: Have you heard about Dr. Becky's new children's book, That's My Truck! A Good Inside Story About Hitting? Well, it's coming out in just a few weeks, and she's so excited to share that she's partnering with CAMP to celebrate its release. Dr. Becky is hosting special signings at CAMP locations in New York, Los Angeles, and Chicago. If you don't know about CAMP, they're sort of ... part toy store, part immersive family playspace, and they all have a magic door. They're all about bringing families together through play. So, if you have kids ages 4-8 and you're anywhere near New York on April 7th, LA on April 23rd, or Chicago on April 24th, please stop by CAMP....and bring your kids! They'll have activities to do, and every child's ticket comes with a copy of her book, which she'll be there to sign for you! Learn more about the tour at www.camp.com/Dr-Becky-Thats-My-Truck Learn more about the upcoming Effective Alternatives to Punishments workshop: https://bit.ly/4g2tKGD
Transcript
Discussion (0)
As we were paying the bill, a lady came over and got very close to my husband's face and
said, I just want you to know that your children have ruined my dinner and you should be ashamed
of yourselves.
I'm Dr. Becky and this is Good Inside. inside.
So here's something I'm thinking a lot about as my kids get older.
When our kids approach their teenage years, we want them to feel more independent.
And at the same time, because we're no longer the ones so involved in getting them from
point A to point B, we want to know that they're safe and have made it to their destination.
How do you navigate this delicate dance?
Well, I've got you covered.
Good Inside just teamed up with Life360, the leading family safety app that helps parents
navigate this delicate balance.
And we're bringing you a free video series about how to talk to your teen about tough topics like
peer pressure and curfew.
I'm super excited about this collaboration because as parents, we all sometimes need
a little extra support when it comes to our kids' safety.
Life360's thoughtful approach to teen safety and independence does exactly that.
With customized locations for frequent destinations like school and practice, automated arrival notifications, even driving reports that help teach
good behind-the-wheel habits, Life360 lets teens spread their wings while
also giving parents peace of mind. So if you're ready to feel more confident
opening up conversations, setting boundaries, and building connection with your teen. Visit Good Inside's YouTube page.
That's www.youtube.com backslash at Good Inside.
That's the at sign and then Good Inside.
To watch now.
And to learn more about how Life360
can support your family's safety journey,
head to life360.com.
That's L-I-F-E-360.com.
Let's talk about one of the most adventurous things a parent can do.
Go to a restaurant with young children.
I've been there.
I'm guessing a lot of you have been there, and it is an experience full
of anxiety, fear, and hyper-attunement to what others around you might be thinking of
you, or how they might be judging your parenting.
Well, today on the podcast, I'm talking to a mom who braved the public restaurant expedition,
and it didn't go so well.
This is something I know everyone will be able to
relate to. I hear there was a little situation with you and your kids at a restaurant and I'd love to
hear about it. Yes, so we have a five-year-old and a four-year-old daughter, had a full day of school,
went to ballet class and we decided to pop across the street for some dinner. And the kids were sitting together along the bench around the outside of the
restaurant, and my husband and I were sitting across from them in chairs. They were getting
at each other as they do when they get tired and had to go to the bathroom so many times.
We took them for walks several times to try to keep them entertained. They had markers,
they had crayons. I had everything I could think of to keep them calm. They were reaching for
these ornaments that were above their heads. And my husband and I were just like, we're
doing our best, we're just going to get this sushi in and then we're going to go home.
And as we were paying the bill, a lady came over and got very close to my husband's face and said,
I just want you to know that your children have
ruined my dinner and you should be ashamed of yourselves.
I have to take a deep breath now,
even saying it, the people who are in me just totally clenched up.
I felt terrible.
My kids felt confused and my husband goes, you know, into defense of us.
And I just feel it's worth mentioning she then continues on to the hostess stand to ask why she
can't be served more wine, which made me feel a little better because it seemed like we were
sort of just next in line for receiving. So first of all, I just have flashbacks to so many kind of dinner
situations with my kids especially when they were younger you know where I'm
like why am I doing this? Why did I take them out to dinner or what's wrong with
my kids? I feel like there's a kid over there who's sitting you know so kindly
you know what's wrong with me? Why am I not a better parent? What are people thinking?
I mean, there's so many things going on
as you're just hoping that the kitchen is able
to give you the food soon and you can be lying out of there.
And that's stressful enough, right?
I think we all have had these situations in a restaurant
and we fear that moment of like someone coming over
and confirming our, you know,
kind of least generous interpretation
of what was going on.
And then that's literally what happened.
Your children have ruined my dinner.
And then the kicker, you should be ashamed of yourself.
If we just zero in on that moment, if it was like a movie and it, you know, we press pause,
what was going on for you?
What's going on inside your body?
What's going on inside your brain,
your thoughts, your worries?
Tell me a little bit more about that.
Yeah, I think...
I keep thinking of that part in The Matrix,
like when everything slows down
and there's all the zeros and the ones,
and like I mentioned, like the people pleaser in me
just was like crushed, you know?
Like I immediately start thinking like,
well, they kind of ruined our dinner too. They didn't ruin
it, but it was just, it was a challenging moment for everyone. So I felt ashamed and
this is the nurse in me. I also felt like, what is going on for this person that she's
speaking to us that way? And also, especially in regards to my husband, I just wanted to get us out of there with
as little confrontation as possible where his MO is more to defend. And he did mention to her
that she should have some, I think dignity is what he said on the way out, because she was still
at the hostess talking about the wine. So the last piece that I was thinking about was like,
how is this going to impact my kids? Because we've been so lucky to be part of this community
and been working on repairing and apologizing and we're getting good at it, I think. But
I have no idea. I've thought about it a lot and I've talked to them about it afterwards,
but that was something else I was thinking about. How are they going to feel? I don't
want them to feel ashamed of reaching for Christmas ornaments in a restaurant, you know.
I think there's so many levels.
There's this narrative about like kids and their behavior and staying in line.
And even though I don't buy into these ideas, Ariana, like there's still this image for me of like the family who can go out to dinner with kids who like sit in their chairs nicely.
And like, you know, order with a please
and say thank you and put their napkins on their laps and unlike my kids, eat rice with
like a fork, not their hands, you know, that family has like really done something right.
And like those kids are going to be successful in life. And I have done it all wrong. There's also, I think, another level, which is just what was I taught growing up about
how proper I needed to be, about how much space I had to kind of be a kid versus please
the people around me by showing off about how compliant I was.
And then there's this last level, which you just named, that I think a lot about,
how do we repair with our kids
for moments that we didn't cause ourselves,
but they're not going to get a repair for
from the person that they would most directly need it for?
So let's start with that first one.
What has in general going to dinner been like?
Kind of when you think about going to dinner
with your two young kids,
just like what types of things come up for you?
I think about an older non-mom version of myself,
not understanding perhaps like that what my goal is now is to do the best I can
and let these little people be out in society
and just do the best I can to keep them occupied.
I don't expect them to sit there.
I don't expect them to say please and thank you every time.
And I see all kinds of different things when I go out
and my heart goes out to people who are trying
to get their kids to use the chopsticks
and say please and say thank you.
And I don't know, I think I fall somewhere in the middle
of all that at this point.
And like I think it's just worth like establishing, right? Like our kids' job really is exploration, right?
They explore a lot, right? That's why they put everything in their mouth when they're, you know, one and two,
because that's the way they can really learn about objects. That's why they crawl all over the place and walk and kind of find things in drawers that they're
not supposed to find, but do anyway.
And that's why they like to move.
Like, that's why they like playgrounds.
That's why they like to climb on things.
That's why they like to touch things.
That's why they hopefully do see things and rest of like, oh, what's that?
Right? They're learning about the world, which is really, really not so conducive
with sitting in one place,
not wiggling your body and just staying there.
And so I often do think every time we take our kids
to some dinner where they have to sit there,
or some show where they're supposed to like sit,
you know, in the seat and just watch one thing,
you know, it really is at odds with what they're developmentally accomplishing in the other parts
of their day, which is learning by doing and learning by touching and learning by exploring.
So just for everyone listening to this is thinking like, yeah, it's a disaster when I go out to dinner
with my young kids. There's something really de-shaming about realizing, okay, well, that's
because my kid's job is to move around and explore,
and sitting at dinner is the opposite of that.
Then another thing is, and I know you probably know this,
but I think for me, when I've taken my kids out to dinner,
I've underestimated how much I needed to like prepare them
for like what the situation would demand
of them.
Because like I'm like, yeah, we're just gonna go grab dinner, right?
And you know, the times that I have paused and been like, oh, what happens at a restaurant
when you want food?
Is it like, oh, I want grilled cheese and here's my grilled cheese.
And just have my kids say no, it's not like that.
Oh, you have to wait.
It's so annoying.
Like whenever I've even done that in the car ride with them,
or, and this was one of my best moves,
oh, what if the chicken fingers aren't like
the chicken fingers we make in our house?
And just starting that circuit,
we've all kind of adapted to restaurants.
And I often do forget to do with my kid.
And then they're sitting and they're like,
why is my food not here?
They're like, ugh, I don't like this type of, you know, pasta.
You know, I thought it was going to look like the one at home.
And sometimes I forget, wait, like,
they just don't have as much world knowledge as I do.
And nobody likes to be surprised, right,
by things that aren't going the way they expect.
Sometimes I reflect after, like,
oh, I probably could do more to set them up,
not for success so that woman doesn't judge you,
but just for success in terms of understanding
what's about to happen.
And I think we were, if we had taken a few minutes
to do that, it really might have had an effect
because what our goal was was like,
we don't want to cook, we've all had a long day,
let's just eat something. And like you said, we're adults, we can handle that, it really might have had an effect because what our goal was, was like, we don't want to cook, we've all had a long day, let's just eat something.
And like you said, we're adults, we can handle that.
But if I would have taken five minutes to just sit with my husband, and give them a
little bit of more information, they do really well with that.
And that's also why I mentioned they were sitting on the bench together, they should
have been separated. Just a little more thoughtfulness from me
beforehand would have had a good effect and would have like felt better for them in their
little bodies because I don't want them to feel bad. Like, they wiggle, right? Like they
can't sit still, you know? That's what they're supposed to be doing.
Totally. And I think there's a really nice kind of two things are true here as a parent.
Like, yeah, like I'm gonna try to remember
those small kind of reminders or anticipations,
right, with my kids.
And inevitably, there's gonna be plenty of moments
I don't do that, we can't do that all the time.
And then, yeah, like things are probably
just gonna be a little messier,
and you know, a little bit more unruly.
It doesn't mean I'm a bad parent.
Definitely doesn't mean I, you know, have a bad kid.
It means hopefully I get them to bed at a decent time and can sit on the couch and just
be like, oh my gosh.
That was like, that was not what I wanted it to be.
I said, oh my God, I came and left you a voice note.
That's what I said.
Yeah.
Perfect.
Well, see, it all worked out.
Okay.
Next thing, I'm just curious as context here and definitely in context in terms of how
you ended up responding to this stranger's comment. What were you like when you went out to dinner?
What was expected of you? Or did you go out to dinner?
Or what would have been like for you
if you were wiggling, understandably,
as a four or five-year-old?
How would your parents have handled that?
I've been thinking about it, and I asked my parents about it,
because I can't remember.
Everybody just remembers my brother and I sitting there
like angels,
and sometimes we would fall asleep with our heads on the table,
but like that's the only info I know,
and like a happy little spaghetti sleepiness.
Just...
Exactly.
Yeah, and look, I think another context that's important
versus when we grow up
is our kids have, you know, so much stimulation in their life, right?
Even just growing up with screens, even growing up with like probably a lot of them have busier
schedules than we had, right?
So they're at this sport, like you said, they go to school, then they go to ballet, right?
Or, right, they're used to then going to ballet and maybe come home and then maybe they get
to watch a show or like they have something stimulating in their life.
And generally sitting at dinner is not very stimulating for a kid.
I actually think it's one of the reasons to practice doing that as a family, just kind
of knowing you're inviting in a little bit of a disaster situation because it's good
for kids to learn, although the learning takes longer than we want it to.
Okay, sometimes I do have to slow down my body. Sometimes I do have periods in my day
where it's not about immediate stimulation.
It's about just being part of something that's not so fun.
At the same time, though, those moments are harder
for kids these days than they were for us
when either the option might have been go out to dinner
or just like sit on the carpet and, I don't know,
like find a piece of wool to twiddle with our thumbs like that's probably was
the option for a lot of us and we're like wow going out to dinner is like
really fun and exciting right there wasn't this like screen in our face so
there wasn't these you know video games to play or there wasn't ballet and so
the gap in what we expected as kids probably what our kids expect doesn't again It doesn't, again, it doesn't make us bad parents.
It doesn't make our kids spoiled kids.
I think there's just, we have to appreciate that difference,
you know, in our kids' bodies around expectation.
Probably again, going back to how helpful it is to say to them,
this is probably not gonna be your most fun moment of the day.
Let's just get ready for that.
I need to say that to them more.
Yeah, I think that's like really good to own to kids.
And they're like, well, why are we doing it?
I say to my kids, I'm like, you know,
it's just really important to do things in life
that aren't fun all the time.
It just kind of helps us develop
into like a good solid adult.
Like I have no better explanation than that.
It's why I tell my kids sometimes like,
yeah, you have to unload the dishwasher.
Well, why do I have to do it?
It's not fun. I'm like, yeah, that's why, because it's not fun.
And it's just a task.
And we do things sometimes that are not fun.
We can make it more fun together, right?
And same thing at dinner.
Like, we could play a little game
or we could play a What's Missing or something like that.
But also, let's just name up front, yeah,
like, you don't have to like going out to dinner.
Because I don't know if this happens in your house,
but I know for some families I've even worked with,
then the narrative is, you don't appreciate this.
Like, I'm taking out to dinner,
I just got you dessert,
I'm taking on vacation,
I just bought you this stuffed animal at Disney,
I'm doing all these things for you.
Well, so many times the things that we say we're doing for our kids,
there's a lot of difficulty to them managing through those things.
Then we act out this resentment when probably our kids on some level are like,
yeah, I didn't really ask to do this.
Have you heard about my new children's book? That's My Truck, a good inside story about hitting.
Well, it's coming out in just a few weeks, and I'm so excited to share that I'm partnering with
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part immersive family play space, and they all
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They're all about bringing families together through play.
And if you attended my How to Play event, you know that play is one of the strongest
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So if you have kids ages 4 to 8, and if you're anywhere near New York on April 7th,
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tour at www.camp.com slash doctor dash Becky dash that's dash my dash truck.
Okay, so let's zero in on this moment. So this woman comes to you after what you already experienced
is not such an enjoyable dinner.
And she just, you know, goes to the jugular, right?
Both like, you ruined my dinner.
And it's just a line.
It's so aggressive.
You should be ashamed of yourselves.
It's really aggressive.
And your kind of your anxiety acts up. Like, you know, I'm like, It's so aggressive. You should be ashamed of yourselves
And you're Kind of your anxiety acts up like yeah
I mean she just like served me a fresh plate of shame and like we didn't ask for it
We didn't know it was coming like
Yeah, but then when it happened I sort of felt like oh this was coming wasn't it?
like it was just sort of looming over all the, you know, drama of the night and
anxiety that I still feel it like talking to you. I feel it when I was thinking about talking to you.
I feel it if it just popped into my head.
But I think
I'm able to sit with it in a way, like just a previous
part of me like wouldn't have been able to show up like this and talk about it like this and yeah
Well, look, I don't know if I've said this yet for salt like I'm sorry that happened
I'm just stinks like flat out that stinks like then nobody
Nobody wants that to happen and also nobody nobody handles that situation that well like because it's so aggressive and
our body often has learned to freeze in those moments.
It sounds like your husband a little more had, like,
fight or flight activate, and you had a little bit more
of this freeze, which is a shame response, right?
And one of the interesting things about any of us
who have that freeze response is I think it gets layered
with additional shame after, where we then say the next day,
like, why didn't I even say anything?
Like, what's wrong with me we
Right, I think understanding that's really important that none of us change through shame shaming ourselves is
actually
Activating this animal defense freeze state even being able to say hi after
To the shame so it doesn't layer on is really important. Very few people react in a way that they're really proud of
holistically after when they're met with such aggression.
And I probably learned when I heard offensive comments
to kind of pause, I must have learned that that was,
you know, the best of all possible reactions
and I need to appreciate that in my history
before my body's able to move forward in a different way.
That's so helpful.
I think I knew that on some level,
but you just saying like spelling it out like that.
Like it was, that's a coping skill
and like a survival skill, right?
Like just freeze, like this is aggressive.
Just breathe and we don't have to fix it or do anything.
Like just stay safe, you know, love that, so helpful.
You said something really powerful.
Like this woman served you this plate of shame.
And I don't know about you, but I have an image
of like a waiter or waitress, like bringing me this plate.
And like, yeah, what do we say to ourselves
when people say things that in some way
we have this vulnerability to take in,
but it's like we're fighting our history.
We're like, no, I know I don't have to be ashamed of myself.
I know kids develop and my kids are just young,
but also there's this voice of like, she's right, she's right.
Like you haven't done it, right?
And we're like warring with ourselves.
I heard that conversation in my head.
Yeah.
So maybe we'll come up with something together.
We'll go step one, step two, and there's no right answer.
So we'll just co-create it.
So for me, step one is putting my feet on the ground
and, like, my hand on my heart and just taking in a breath
that has a longer out-breath than in-breath,
which is, like, such a powerful trick to know about our body.
Like, you fool your body into activating the parasympathetic nervous system.
So it's a way of your body saying like,
well, wait, this is an emergency, right?
Because like, so saying like,
every time I do it even now,
it's like, wow, I feel calmer.
So that's step one.
What might step two be after you kind of have
a little bit of groundedness?
What might you say to yourself to really give a little bit more distance between this person's
comment and your truth?
I just thought of bringing it back to the platter of shame.
I just know that like this is to make it an object like a ball someone's trying to throw
to you and I do not have to catch this ball.
Like, like I see you, I hear you,
I'm doing my deep breathing,
and you can take your platter somewhere else,
we'll send it into the universe,
nobody, something like that.
Yeah, and for everyone listening,
what you just did,
I don't even know if you noticed you did it,
but I saw it on video,
and I think about this all the time with my kids,
when they say stuff I don't really want to absorb,
it's like you literally moved out of the way.
I do this all the time, especially when I'm trying to reprocess something.
Like I literally imagine the shame platter coming my way,
or maybe it is a ball being thrown at me.
And I'm not gonna spend my energy swatting it away,
because that's also energy.
But I don't have to stay there and have it enter me.
And just this act of, and for everyone listening,
I'm literally moving my body as if I'm like moving away from a ball that's thrown at me. And I just like, I always
look at it. Like I'm like, I'm just watching it pass me. There it is.
Absolutely.
Okay, so that's step two. Step one is take a deep breath. Step two, like really imagine
this thing, whoever's serving it to you, notice that it's coming your way and really move
out of the way. And then I think some simple words,
like it sounds so obvious, but we need to hear it.
What other people say about me isn't necessarily true.
Or that person thinks I should be ashamed of myself.
I know I'm a good parent whose kids
were a little bit rowdy at dinner, you know?
Or like you said, sometimes it is helpful
to gain distance
to say, wow, I was just like a pawn
in that person's chessboard.
I often think like, I must've been an actor
in that person's play.
That person must've had parents who were so harsh to them
and they were just reliving something from their past.
This had nothing to do with me.
And then I wanna talk, Ariana, about what you mentioned before,
which is how do we repair with our kids
for moments that happen that they pick up on
and that don't feel good
and they're not gonna get that repair for.
So we have to give ourselves, I think,
just again, that compassion and understanding of our body.
I might not do that right away.
My body needs time to unfreeze.
I need to get to that place again where I'm like,
wait, I'm safe, I'm breathing, where I'm like, wait, I'm safe.
I'm breathing.
This is not a me thing.
I'm watching this kind of shame pass by.
So tell me what you have said to your kids.
And again, there's no right way.
Or if you're like, yeah, I haven't, I don't know.
I don't know exactly what to say.
I'm happy to brainstorm together.
I talked to my older daughter about it in a quieter moment before bedtime that night.
And I just asked her how it made her feel.
And she said, it made me feel sad
and took all my energy and work that I've done
just to not try and fix that or comfort.
And I just said, it made me feel sad too.
And I told her that that person was having a hard time
and that we are good and we're okay and you're safe. I don't remember exactly,
but she then moved on and asked, what book are we reading tonight? But I knew that it
was in there. I think I mentioned something similar to my younger daughter, but she didn't
give me the feedback, but I did just try and say some of those words just to try and make
space in her brain to know that like something happened. It didn't feel good and we're okay.
I think you crushed it. I really mean I think you totally crushed it, right? And I think
this is something whether it's a stranger at a restaurant or sometimes it's a grandparent
or sometimes for some people it's their co-parent. Where repairing for someone who can't do the repair
is really centering our kids' experience.
It's like, wait, my kid noticed something,
my kid absorbed something that didn't feel good.
And that moment where they felt kind of scared
or confused or alone, it doesn't really matter
at this point who quote put that moment there.
I can help my child not live with this kind of free floating confusion and anxiety.
And that's really what talking about these things does.
So I think you did an amazing job.
I think another thing I say a lot to my kids is like,
you noticed blank, right?
You noticed that that woman said these really harsh words
about your behavior at the restaurant.
And then I don't know why, maybe I do, but I'm obsessed with this phrase.
It's just like, you are right to notice that.
I feel like it's saying, yeah, that really happened.
That thing that you were putting together, you perceive that correctly.
I think I just feel like so many adults think they struggle with most is self-trust.
Like, do I really feel the things I feel?
Did I pick up on something or am I making a big deal out of nothing?
And I think generation of kids who are raised with, like, you were right to notice that.
It just feels so heartening.
So I try to say that a lot to my kids.
And again, we could say that if we have a co-parent who yells at our kid and really
struggles to repair, hey, you noticed mom, you noticed dad,
you know, yelled at you.
Like that happened.
You were right to notice that.
And I'm sure that registered for you and felt scary.
And I'm not even throwing anyone under the bus.
I'm just centering my kids' confusion or threat or fear
and letting them know they're not alone.
And that's what they
need, you know, like you said, more than fixing it is just letting them know that they perceive
something accurately and that they were allowed to have a feeling about it.
I love like just the objectivity of that. And like, they're just not blame anywhere,
but just like I see you in this moment that feels bad or whatever it feels like I'm gonna definitely use that
phrase more.
Look, and I can say to you, you were right to notice something that was really messed
up and really hurtful and triggering and you seem to have handled that in such a powerful,
beautiful growth producing way for everyone.
So and I'm really glad you shared this with us.
I know so many of us have been there.
And what's amazing is I think the next time anyone here
right now is there, they're gonna be a little bit more
prepared to manage that situation and manage the way
they feel after.
So, thank you.
Thanks for listening.
To share a story or ask me a question, go to goodinside.com slash podcast.
You could also write me at podcast at goodinside.com.
Parenting is the hardest and most important job in the world, and parents deserve resources
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It's totally game-changing.
Good Inside with Dr. Becky is produced by Jesse Baker and Eric Newsom at Magnificent Noise.
Our production staff includes Sabrina Farhi, Julia Knapp, and Kristen Muller.
I would also like to thank Eric Obelsky, Mary Panico, Ashley Valenzuela, and the rest of the Good Inside team.
And one last thing before I let you go.
Let's end by placing our hands on our hearts
and reminding ourselves, even as I struggle
and even as I have a hard time on the outside,
I remain good inside.
I remain good inside.
Today's episode is in partnership with Life360 and Camp.