Good Inside with Dr. Becky - Stop Trying to Make Your Kids Creative

Episode Date: June 16, 2026

Parents are being sold creativity like it's a subscription box. Workshops, kits, frameworks, scripts: the message being that your kid needs more imagination and it's your job to install it. Austin Kleon, author of Steal Like an Artist and Don't Call It Art, has a different take: your kid already has it. The imagination, the playfulness, the willingness to not-know — it's all there. The question isn't how to give it to them. It's how to stop blocking it. And maybe, while we're here, how to get a little of it back ourselves. Dr. Becky and Austin talk about what creativity actually needs to thrive (not a workshop), what so-called "problem kids" and great artists have in common, why your kid's obsession with garage doors is not a problem, the link between play and depression, the game that got Austin through the pandemic, and the teeth-brushing song Becky invented entirely by accident. Read Dr. Becky’s ideas for how to be a playful parent when you don’t feel like playing. * From the newborn days to the teen years, Good Inside now supports parents through every stage of childhood — with practical guidance for the moments that matter most.  Thank you to our partners for making this episode possible: Play-Doh: Shop Play-Doh at Walmart for a summer of imaginative play Skylight: Get $30 off a 15-inch Skylight Calendar at myskylight.com/becky LMNT: Get a free gift with your purchase at drinkLMNT.com/goodinside Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

I can't get this out of my head, so I'm just good to tell you. You know the game I played when I was bottomed out the most? I read about it during the pandemic. What's on my butt? Do you know what's on my butt? What is it? Do you want to hear about the game? I do.

You lay down flat on the couch or on the bed. Yeah, yeah. You lay down. You close your eyes and the kids put something on your butt and you get to guess. What's on my book. Raise a creative kid. Every parent I talk to is being told that right now. Raise a creative kid.

Protect their imagination. Nothing's going to matter in the world going forward except for originality. It's on every podcast, every parenting account, every school newsletter. And then I read Austin Cleon's new book. And it felt initially counterintuitive and then retrospectively obvious. Because Austin's whole argument is, your kid already has it. the imagination, the originality, the creativity. It's not something we have to install in them.

We don't have to give it to them. It's something they came with. And so the question isn't how to put it in there or build it. The question, what we're really going to be talking about today, and it's mind-blowing stuff, but also remarkably simple, is how do we kind of just create the conditions to preserve it and for our kid to access it? And then there's also a little bit of a deeper question, which I think you're going to appreciate. Do we have access to ours?

and guess what? We also talk about how we can re-access it in small, totally manageable ways. Austin's the writer behind Steal like an artist, show your work, keep going. Books that have taught a generation of adults how to make things. His new one, don't call it art, didn't come from inspiration at an art school. It came from his kitchen table, inspiration from his kids. Let me also just tell you that I haven't had so much fun talking to someone in a while. I think you'll hear it in my voice. I think you'll hear it in the stories I end up telling. There was something just so playful about this conversation. And I think you're going to end up having a little playfulness and joy in yourself as you listen. I'm Dr. Becky. This is good inside. Let's get into it.

Austin, I feel like parents right now are kind of being sold creativity like it's something to install. Okay. Like workshops, kits, classes, frameworks, scripts, everything. And, I feel like your book kind of says some version of like, stop. Your kid has it. You don't need to install it. And to some degree, maybe it's us, the parents who lost it or lost access to it. I don't know. Like, is that at all accurate?

Tell me more. Yeah. I mean, people kept asking me, well, when are you going to do a creativity book for kids? And I said, well, kids don't need a book. We're the ones that need a book to be more like creative. like them, you know? Most of the time, parents, when it comes to creative stuff with their kids, they just get in the way, you know, because you can't really teach a kid to be creative.

What you do is you set the conditions for them to be creative in. You know, creating those conditions for my own kids was what, like, kind of lit up a light ball for myself. I was like, wait a minute, if I'm giving my kids this time, space, and materials, like, how come I don't do that for myself in the studio? I feel like great bands know this, you know? Like you get in the studio, you like set up the vibes, you get the amp set up, you get the drum set up,

you do all that. You create the conditions, but then what comes out of it, it's like the more you focus on that, the more you're going to get gumbed up and you're going to like kind of like, you know, freeze up, you know. Yeah. Like you're saying the band,

the more they're saying, okay, was that it? Was that the hit? Was that going to be great? How about we do it now? Are we going to do it now? how you're like the vibes are off guys and the vibes are real that's what you're saying the vibes are really got to trust the vibes a little the vibes are real and what we know about great bands is a lot of

their big hits came from them goofing off you know like a lot you know radio head is like I know I have this song it's kind of weird it's about being a creep and then it becomes their biggest hit you know led zeppelin is like we got this weird song called stairway to heaven it's not like our other stuff you know but it's like something that you learn that's like something that my kids taught me is it's like it's really when you're messing around that the most creative stuff happens. And I think this is what's really hard for parents is that kids tend to be their most creative when they're really supposed to be doing something else. A hundred percent.

I want to share a story that's coming to mind and then I have so many questions for you, okay? But it's crazy what just connected in my brain, okay? Because I think one of my all-time best parenting strategies that I've ever come up with with my own kid, I want to tell you how it happened, okay? Okay. I'm looking at my team in the studio. Get ready, guys, because this is, I'm going to model this and you're going to laugh at me for the rest of my life.

Okay. So my youngest was stalling, brushing his teeth because he's a kid because all the things you want. I get it. I tried all the things, all the things, Austin. Okay. It was so many nights in a row. So this is what I started saying, talking about messing around. I go, oh, have I ever told you about this game?

I can't even tell you about this game. And of course, he's like four. He's like, okay, time at the game. game and what might be clear to you is I had no idea what was going to come out of my mouth. I was just stalling. I can't tell you. It's so ridiculous. No, can't tell you.

And I was like, okay. Okay. Well, this game is called, I'm like, what am I going to say? I'm messing around. I don't know what I'm doing. Brush a brush a brush, brush. I literally. Okay.

Good title. I want to play brush, brush, brush, a brush, brush, brush, I'm like, I bet you do. I bet you do. I don't even know if I'm going to tell. Okay, fine. Well, I'm going to brush your teeth. And let me just show you. Let me demonstrate. So now, and I'm going to start saying, brush a, brush a brush, brush a brush, brush a brush, brush a brush, brush a brush. And I do it. And I go, but then you have to listen. And when I go to a different pattern, brush a brush a brouche, you're going to run and you're going to have to spit it out in the sink before I touch the sink. and then I can't even tell you my older kids mom why don't you play brush a brush a brush a brush

bruce bruce with me i literally was like i messed around i had i was stalling i can't i don't even know it can't even tell you how many good inside members go of all your stress that is that is saved my life brush a brush a brush a brush brush a bruce bruce if you know you know and i'm just thinking about my i'm like my random creativity does that count as creativity i don't know but how it came in this total spontaneous stalling, not knowing, uncertain messing around moment. Perfect. And I think the inciting incident was you saying, you saying, hey, have I ever told you about this game? And you have to deliver now, right?

You've engaged. That's the inciting incident in the story. I created a container. You created the conditions under which the game was made. So like that creates the like that creates the space then that you have to fill the void, right? There's a void now. And I want to link it back to something you said. Kids are the most creative when they're supposed to be doing something else.

I have a question, truly. This is like a new insight. Was I my most creative in that moment? Because in some ways, parenting lore says give your kid a threat. I'm supposed to be threatening. I'm supposed to be exerting my authority. And I kind of opened up this container for something totally. totally different. Like I wonder if that's similar to, I want you to tell me more about kids are more

the most creative when they're supposed to be doing something else. I think what you were doing is you were being, you were doing the thing that great artists do and great storytellers do, which is, hey, have you ever heard of this game? Have you ever heard of the story? And you're, wait, what's the story? I mean, like, it's the hook. It's the hook. It's the hook. You've given them a hook now. I've got you now. And then, you know, so I think that's what you're, were doing right there is you were kind of doing what the artist does. Because people think about art and creative work as being this one-way street where the artist just makes stuff and puts it out there. But just like I write books and books are nothing without the reader. Yes. Okay, take me back to

I just kept thinking in your work, the kids that we label as problems and that line, kids are most creative when they're supposed to be doing something else. So kids we label is defiant, uncooperative, dramatic too much. Is that creativity with nowhere to go? Was that creativity about to be unlocked? Tell me. Oh, I don't know. I was a good boy.

And like I was a very like, I was not, I was a straight A student. I was like a very like good boy. But I didn't do anything good until I stopped being good. Right? Like I didn't really find my work until I was able to do that bad boy stuff. that I didn't do when I was a kid, you know? Wait, like, what didn't you do? Like, tell me about the...

You know, I was, I was, I was like a good boy. I got good grades and like, you know, and, like, didn't go out and party much and that kind of thing, you know, and did what, you know, my parents expected of me and that kind of thing. The most creative things I did, though, were when I was younger, I played in a band. And that was kind of the safe space where I could be a little bit wilder and stuff. But, you know, my parents always encouraged me, too. So it's not like I was really going on.

mile of limb. It was really like when with my own creative work, it's when I got out of the structure of school that I really discovered the things that were really unique to me. And I could kind of like be bad. And when I say be bad, it's like do the things that weren't serious, right? Because like my books have pictures and words in them, right? Well, you know, if you're in a creative writing workshop and you turn in a story with pictures in it, they're going to say, like, what is this? This is supposed to be in like 12 point times new Roman, you know, so I don't know. I mean, I do think that like, what an art museum is for is you go into the art museum and you have an encounter with the work of art and you see things

the way that the artist sees things. And then you're supposed to go out in the world and have that way of seeing. Like, everybody knows what it's like to like, like, witness a really great work of art. And then you come out and you're like, wow, it looks like a Rembrandt out here or something. you know, kids skip right over that part because they're already seeing the world in these kind of like artist psychedelic terms. They're already seeing the world as a work of art with the exit signs. And so that was like a really, that was a really, really good moment for me. I want to zoom into that moment because I'm just thinking, and I'm sure you get it too. And maybe this is like child Austin meeting now liberated adult Austin. But there's this moment.

You're like, I took, I don't know, I took the day off work. I bought these tickets. I go to this vacation. I'm at the Met. I'm at whatever museum, okay? And I took my kids here and I want them to appreciate the X because everyone appreciates whatever the X stands for. Okay. And then you see your kid, and I think the short-circuited thought is my kid, my kid's ungrateful, my kid's uncooperative, my kid doesn't get it, right? And that's one response. And we all have said it. I've said it, right? I've thought it at least, and I've said it, okay? What, just what is going on in your head maybe? Maybe you've earned this or now this is more natural, but just to model it, what's a different set of thoughts a parent might have for that kid in that moment? One of my favorite moments of all time is I was,

I got to lead around a group of kids one time, and this was before I had kids, and we were in an art museum, and I said, you know, you don't have to know how you, why you like things. And they all looked at me and they're like, what? I was like, you don't have to know how you like, well, like, why you like things. You know, your teachers, they're going to ask you after this. You know, you go look at a piece of art. They're going to say, now write me an essay about why you like this thing. But you know what? You don't have to know right away. You just have to sit with it and like it. And they were so excited. Wow, this guy's really crazy. But I think you're, I mean, I think what you're saying is kind of the opposite of crazy because what you're saying to a kid is, you can trust a signal

in your body before your brain makes sense of it. Exactly. They are taking in the world without the brand. Yeah, they're getting that raw input and having a response to it, which is exactly what we lose as we get older and what artists manage to have. And it's an opportunity then to be like, who do you think made the exit sign? How do we find that out? Do you think the building next door has different exit signs? And then it becomes this exploration and this opportunity.

Yeah. And I think what you're saying too, which is I always find when I do this, my kids, whenever I tell them something I'm learning from them or they're helping me with, they light up. So I think from your example, I could say, sometimes when I go to a museum, I only let myself like the things I think I'm supposed to like. Kind of like pretty basic of me. And so I'm going to try to wander around and just like see. what happens. Like, I'm learning that from you, right? I just, I don't know. I, like, I would feel so good

as a parent if I said that. Like, I would feel like that was meaningful, you know? Yeah. And it's like, why don't you pick us something to look at, you know, putting them in, giving them the autonomy, giving them the power and the situation. Why don't you lead? Oh, you know. Yes. Okay, you talk a lot about learning things from kids. And there's this moment in your book where your son makes a drawing you think is perfect, okay? And then he throws it away and starts another one. So can you first just walk me through if we had that moment on like 0.2x? So it's really slowed down.

What's going on as you're noticing it, what you're feeling during it? Just like what's going on inside you? I mean, it was happening so much is the thing. It was like, I mean, like I would literally, my son Jules, who still draws and draws in his sketchbook more than most artists I know. Like, he would draw 50 drawings a day. You know, I mean, we would go through a whole ream of copy paper, like, in a couple of days. And so it was happening so much that there were times where I almost got desensitized to it.

You know, it's like, oh, yeah, he's drawing it. Yeah, it's Jules. He's drawing another drawing, you know. But, like, the interesting thing to me was just the shock of, like, you can make something so cool and then just be like, mm-hmm, pow, do another one because I thought, I can't do that. I can't do that in the studio. If I make something great, like, I'll be like, oh, wow, I got to scan this and put this up on Instagram or like, you know, whatever it is.

I can't be like, yeah, cool, all right, let's make another one, you know? And with Jules, it was also like, I was watching him and I was like, he had this really fun way of drawing where he would draw a little bit and then he would pump his fists. Yeah. Like he like yes, look at what we're doing here, you know, and they'd go back at it and he'd be like, you know, and he would celebrate himself while he was working. I just like, and I was like, you can do that, right? Like, wow, I bet I could do that. If no, you know, like, what if I did that in the studio, you know, what if I got a line down? It was just like, it was like learning. It was, like, learning. It It's literally like learning from a little master, you know.

That's what I think a real creative person needs is to love the process more than the product. Because the product, someone else can take and do something with it. There's a very specific moment in the day a lot of parents hit. Usually in the afternoon where you're still going, but everything feels harder than it should. You're answering questions, making decisions, trying to stay patient, and suddenly simple things feel complicated. Like, why does choosing a snack suddenly feel like a high-stakes decision? And most of us, me included, have the tendency to just push through it, power through. But I've started to pay more attention to those in-between moments

and how something as basic as hydration can actually help. And that's what I like about elements sparkling electrolyte drinks. They're designed for those exact moments, not just workouts, but real life. school drop-off, the transition between soccer and coming home, that mid-afternoon dip around 4.07 p.m. And it's a simple, grab and go can, no mixing, no prep, something I can just reach for when I need a small reset for me. No sugar, no artificial ingredients, just a way to support yourself a little better in the middle of a long day. If you want to try it, Element is offering a free gift with any purchase. Just go to DrinkElement.com.

com slash good inside. That's drink l mn t.com slash good inside. Sorry, I didn't mean this to be my therapy session. I tell me how much I owe you after. But people are like, how do you respond to all things you put online, people liking them or not liking them? And literally I'm like, it's weird. I don't even have a great answer to that question. I just feel like I'm so often consumed by like the next thing I'm thinking about and trying to work out in my head or the next conversation I'm having a parent. I'm like, that's a conundrum. Oh, what's going on? Let's figure that out together.

I don't know yet. I don't know. Like, that's just where I am. I'm not. That's where I am in the next moment. I'll have what she's having. That's what I'm hearing. Basically because like that.

Only here. Let me be clear. That is what every great artists I've ever studied talks about. Like, I, once the things out, it's dead to, it's on to the next thing. It's dead to me. Yeah. Well, you know, we talk about executing a project. Like, yeah.

Well, then it's dead. Once you executed, it's dead to you, right? Like, it's done. On to the next thing. English language is, wow. Wow. Okay. This has been, okay.

Next thing I want to ask you about, I could talk to you forever, is obsession. Okay. I hear different versions of this from parents all the time. In fact, I remember talking to this parent for a while. My four-olds obsessed with garage doors, okay? All he wants to do is drive around our city and watch them open and close. And then my kids, like, my friends, like, do they, does my kid have an issue? Is my kid this thing?

Are they that thing? How long do I let this happen for? I'm trying to show my kid there's other things, but it's just back to the garage doors. What is that about from your perspective? I think you have a lot to say about it. I think, you know, the John Baldessari, who is actually the person I stole the title for this book from, he used to say that you have to be obsessed. Talent is nothing. You have to be obsessed or you'll never make it as a creative person.

Create people are people who get obsessed and kids are creative. And so they get obsessed by things. My son loved engines. I'm not a car guy. my son loved everyone who came to our house, he would want to look at the engine and then he'd say, hey, dad, take a picture of this

so I can look at it later. And he'd want me to print it out and then he would draw the engine. And I know more about combustion engines, something I never wanted to know about because of my son, Owen. You just like expand the thing they get obsessed by. So let's do that with garage doors

because I think the impulse can be. And maybe this goes back to your beginning when you're saying as parents, like we can so easily lose touch with anything related to creativity because we're so in an up into the right optimization world right and so like we all get why it happens then we see this thing in our kid right and I think I don't know I see this visual with my my friend who has a kid this garage derbs session so let's say he has a road of his life and he's like stuck at garage doors okay he's like garage doors garage doors and I think our impulse and mine too is we push back we almost like build a wall

but we don't realize we're just keeping our kids stuck at the garage door because we're like pushing back. Right. And I think what you're saying is what if the garage door, they have to be there for a little, but it's it is the eventual kind of door to the next. The door is the door. The door is the door. Okay.

The garage door is the door. Sometimes my metaphors are very literal, right? And what if we just follow it a little bit? I guess this is kind of my education because I went to a school that was an interdisciplinary school in college. and we would take something like your garage door and we would look at it from 100 different angles. We'd say, well, what's the sociological angle of a garage door?

What's the environmental angle of a garage door? What's the design angle? So I would ask the kid, well, what do you think about, what would it be like to have a house that didn't have a garage door? Why do you think some houses have garage doors and some houses don't? Did you know that some garage doors don't face the driveway? Some of them face, you know, and then you start one,

and then you can, because they answer, of course, is that we didn't always have cars that we pulled into our houses. Right? So, like, you know, you're kind of like, my, the thing that helped to me the most as a parent is I used to be a librarian. So my first job out of college was a reference desk librarian.

And the librarian, you learn, the library, the librarian doesn't need to know the answers. They just need to know what questions to ask and where to find the answers. So I was always going to, you know, I threatened for years if I was going to write a parenting book. I'd say parent like a librarian, because I wrote a book called Steal Like an Artist, so the symbolizer.

But to me, it was like, the more I thought of myself as a librarian, the kid comes to me. He's got all these weird interests, got all these obsessions, got all these questions. I don't need to have the answers. I just need to say, you know, I bet I know where we could look for that. And we could look for that together. And, oh, you're into garage doors? Hey, you know what I found. I found our old opener, you know, or like, look, I found this manual.

You know what? Grandpa, you know what Grandpa did? I told him you were into garage doors. He mailed us his manual for his garage door on his barn. Let's take a look at it. You know, and it's just about being like, so yeah, my training as a librarian, I think, you know, really inspired me more than anything with the kids is to just think about everything they bring you is an opportunity for inquiry and curiosity and for a way to for them to learn about

the world literally through their obsession because yes you can start with garage doors you can learn i would guess that you could build a whole urban planning uh class around garage doors okay we're talking about play but i want to talk about it related to something you've said right and you quote this line in the book, the opposite of play isn't work. The opposite of play is depression. And I want to like honestly, like probably even change my own tone,

take a deep breath into that because I really, I feel privileged to be led into parents' lives who do tell me like every day they're exhausted. They feel like the joy has gone and there's low grade or diagnosable or depression, whatever it is. It feels really dark.

And so talk to me about how depression is related to play. Well, I'm not the expert. The expert is Stuart Brown has wrote a great book on play, and that's who said that line. I think, you know, to me, play is to be activated, and depression is to be non-activated, right? Depression is to be the opposite of whatever activated is. And I think that play is something that lets you know you're alive, like, only. things that are alive, play, and everything that's a, well, plants, maybe not. I haven't researched the play of plants.

See, this is a great question for a kid. Do you think plants play? You know. Well, we know that, we know that trees kind of talk now, right? That's really interesting. Is that a form of play? Do they make jokes? Yeah.

And, you know, these questions, by the way, are exactly the, like, this is like how children's books start or how any artist gets an idea. it like, do trees talk, you know, these kinds of questions that kids ask, these naive questions. You know, there's a great, it's a great book called Philosophy and the Young Child, where the guy kind of talks about, you know, Socrates was really just being a young kid and asking really basic questions that everyone else thought they had answered. You know, that's what kids are so good at is, and the questions that they ask make you question your own knowledge, you know, and that's why I think they're so good at, like, cracking things open. Yeah, kids are, kids are remarkably good

at not knowing, right? Oh, yes. And not knowing is at the very heart of what I think every creative person needs. Donald Barthelmey wrote a great essay about it. And he said, the writer is someone who does not know what to do. And you sit with that. Say, I do not know what I'm doing. And you sit with uncertainty. The cool thing about uncertainty is like, we're in an uncertain world and it's everyone's full of uncertainty right now. The really handy thing about being a creative person is that uncertainty is the very thing that you run on, like not knowing. Because when you don't know what you're doing, that means there are possibilities. To be sure of something means that the possibilities are pretty shut down. But like to not be sure is to be open and have

possibilities. So the not knowing is the thing that it all runs on. And again, that's what kids, like the beginner's mind is what the, you know, the Zen folks would say. Kids have that beginner's mind because in the experts mind, the possibilities are few. In the beginner's mind, the possibilities are endless. Do you ever have moments where it's hard to be playful with your kids? Is that ever kind of, yeah? Every day. Are you kidding? I'm not a very good. I mean, I wouldn't even call myself. I mean, the only way that I know I'm probably not a bad dad is that I worry about being a bad dad. And I think that any parent who worries about being a good parent is probably not a bad parent, you know? I mean, I'm sure you've discovered that in your work. But, you know, I mean, like,

yeah, and it's called bedtime. It's time to go bed. Okay. So tell me one thing there, because I'm going to share with you something I did last night. It's kind of crazy that this is coming full circle. Like, there's only many full circle moments with you. What is something you've done at bedtime to force yourself to be a little more playful. Maybe you commit to the container before you know how to fill it that you can share with other parents. And I'll share a simple thing I did the other night. Oh, wow. Playful at bedtime. Maybe that's a stretch. Playful an hour before bed. And just like a moment that you were like, I kind of want to lean in and be a little more present, playful, creative fun. And do you do you have any cheat sheets of sorts? We all need those. I can't get this out of my head.

So I'm just good to tell you. You know the game I played when I, I was bottomed out the most. I read about it during the pandemic. What's on my butt? Do you know what's on my butt? What is it? What's on my butt? I don't know who discovered this glorious game.

What's on my butt? You want to hear about the game, right? Do you want to hear about the game? I do. So you lay down flat on the couch or on the bed. Okay, yeah, you lay down, you close your eyes. and the kids put something on your butt and you get to guess

what's on my butt. What's on my butt? It's the game that's taking over the nation. And that was just, what's on my butt makes me think of the pandemics. And my kids were little during the pandemic. Like, they were little kids. And what's on my butt got me through

a lot of bottomed out times. But it was a game, you know. And so was your brushy, brush, uh, right? games playfulness like it doesn't even have to be you don't have to be playful to play a game you know like the game part of the game is to trick you into being playful you know 100% it's funny i play a game i'm gonna talk about something else but i end up kind of setting something up that's playful and i say and if you do this thing i'll do a butt down so there's which is like i jump up and down and touch my butt so like there's something similar in our we end up at the same places you and i but this is what

But, but, but, and, and. So last night, I was putting my eight-year-old to bed. He's my youngest. And I have to be honest, I'm obsessed with children's books, okay? But I don't read as many as I used to. I mean, 14-11-8, my kids, you know, like, or anyway. But you know what book I took out that was a fan favorite? I mean, forever.

But it just been in a while was the book with no picture. Shout out to BJ Know That. Okay. I mean, this, I just wanted for anyone listening. I have no affiliate structure here. This is just pure cheat sheet. It is such a beautiful container to enter into playfulness and silliness because the book, I'll give it away, forces you through the reading of it to say ridiculous things and ridiculous sounds, right?

Blaggagety, blaggity, glabity, glabity, glabity, glabity, glibbiddy, glibbiddy, beepoo. Like, I can still, I can think about the whole book. And what happened between me and my son? And it was. It was a long day. Right. And it was. And it just, it was playfulness at bedtime, which feels like a parenting paradox, right?

Like how can we do that? And we always do Rose, um, Rose Thorne and Bud with my kid at bedtime, right? The best part of your day, your hardest, the thing you're looking forward to. Yep. And he, you know, Rose, we do first. And he goes, definitely right now reading that book with you. And honestly, I left his room after, you know, doing the rest of routine. And I just thought, like, that was, that was my rose too.

I keep a diary. And one of the things I would really recommend to people with young parents is if, or young kids is if you can stand it, like just keep a one line a day diary because, and one of the things that, you know, people usually when they pick up their diaries, they write about like bad things or like the worst things. Yeah. I always try at least once in my diary. to write the best thing.

This is something I learned from the writer, Nicholson Baker, who wrote about it in his book, The Anthologist. When you think about the best thing that happens in a day, there's something more poetic about it. It brings out the best in you. And you are able to kind of like, I just think it's like this really helpful exercise that when you are bottom out like a parent, like in the way that parents can get that thing. If you can just focus on that one good thing, the best thing. the best thing that happened, even if it was like getting the kids to bed and watching, you know, the pit, whatever.

Like that, those moments are so worth noting because not to quote for Kurt Vonnegut again, but like his uncle always said, always notice when you're happy. Like if this isn't nice, I don't know what it is. That was such a fun conversation. Like I'm beaming now. I just ended. And it just shows me playing around with ideas. playing around with silliness, play. It's so hard sometimes in this world, and some days I don't have it either, a lot of days. And I don't feel any guilt for that, and I hope you don't either.

But maybe this sparks something for you, which shows that we didn't put it in you. We maybe just helped you ignite something that was kind of dormant inside you because we all have that creativity in that play. I want to tell you something I'm going to do for you because I know what you're thinking. That what's on your buck game, that brushy, brush, a brush, a brush, brush, that book,

I need this written out. That is some serious, playful stuff, and I don't want to forget it. And I want to send it to my partner and I want to talk about it with my group of friends because it's going to feel so weird doing brushy, brush, brush, brush, brush, but if my friends do it too on the same day, we can play around with it together. So go to the link in the show notes. I'm going to lay it all out for you. I think we all need a little bit more play.

And if someone can help us create the conditions for it, we all benefit. All right, let's end the way we always do. Place your feet on the ground and place a hand on your heart. And let's remind ourselves, even as we struggle on the outside, we remain good and playful and creative and imaginative inside. I'll see you soon.