Good Inside with Dr. Becky - The Voices Inside Our Heads

Episode Date: September 27, 2022

We all have voices inside ourselves and while it might seem that some of these voices are trying to hold us back maybe they're actually trying to help us. By popular demand, on today's episode Dr. Becky sits down with the founder of Internal Family Systems, Dr. Dick Schwartz to help us learn to speak to the voices inside ourselves and become intentional rather than reactive parents. Join Good Inside Membership: https://bit.ly/3cqgG2A Follow Dr. Becky on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/drbeckyatgoodinsideSign up for our weekly email, Good Insider: https://www.goodinside.com/newsletter Order Dr. Becky's book, Good Inside: A Guide to Becoming the Parent You Want to Be, at goodinside.com/book or wherever you order your books. For a full transcript of the episode, go to goodinside.com/podcast

We all have voices inside of us. Voices that tell us we're not enough. Voices that blame us when things feel hard. Voices that question our abilities. And these voices, while we experience them as holding us back, are actually trying to help us out. And knowing this changes everything. My guest today will help us understand these voices and make them work for us instead

of against us. I'm Dr. Becky and this is Good Inside. We'll be right back. Hey Sabrina, hey. That. That. That. That. Hey Sabrina. Hey. So I've been thinking about toys recently. I don't want the toy to do that much of the work. I want the toy to inspire my kid to do the work.

Because actually the toys that get really busy and do a lot of things, kids actually lose interest in so quickly. Oh totally. There's certain toys that get really busy and do a lot of things, kids actually lose interest in so quickly. Oh, totally. There's certain toys that my kids have just played with throughout the years. I have a six-year-old and a three-year-old. Like what?

So I have these wooden blocks from Melissa and Doug. They're super simple. Just plain wooden, no-color. And my kids love them. They're always building castles or like a dinosaur layer. And then my oldest will tell my youngest to like, decorate them after he's built this crazy cool structure. My go-to is our Melissa and Doug too. I feel like we have this ice cream scooper thing that my kids use when they were two

and then they used again when they were developing better fine motor skills and then for my kind of four-year-old, my seven-year-old still using it in imaginative play. I really only like talking about items and brands that we actually use in our own home and Melissa and Doug, I just don't know if there's any other brand I feel so good about naming the way that their toys actually inspire creativity and open ended screen free child-led play. It's just unmatched. And like what's honestly so exciting is to be able to offer everyone listening to this podcast, 20% off. Visit molissaandug.com and use code Drbecky20DRBECKY20 for 20% off your order. Molissa and Doug, timeless toys, endless possibilities.

toys endless possibilities. I'm Dr. Becky, and this is Good Inside. I'm a clinical psychologist, I'm a mom of three, and I'm on a mission to rethink the way we raise our children. If you've listened to this podcast before, then you have definitely heard me talk about IFS, internal family systems. Internal family systems is a framework, I think, about a lot in my work. And you know how to afford me to talk about it and how to apply it to what is going on for us and what is going on with our kids. Essentially, IFS is about figuring out our relationship

with all of the different parts of us. Even the idea of internal family systems helps us look at what's going on inside of us, in a way where we see our own family system. We think a lot about a family system outside of us, maybe with our family of origin or with our partner and the kid, but we also have a lot going on inside of us. And so it might not be a big surprise,

but it might be a surprise that when I asked the good inside membership community, who they would most want to hear from as a podcast guest, I gave them the choice of anyone. It was an open film of blank. They could have said anyone in the world, this is not a joke that there were more votes for Dick Schwartz, the father, the founder of Internal Family System, than anyone else, okay? You are truly a hero. You are the ultimate, okay?

So if you, Dick, are having a not so great day any day in your life, just remember that you have that honor. Okay, more than anyone else, it was like, yes, please figure out how to get Dick Schwartz on the podcast. So welcome. I am truly so honored to be talking with you. Well, it's so great to be talking to you again, Dr. Becky.

And I do feel very, very honored by that. So you heard me give a very, very simplified, maybe my version of what IFS is. But there are definitely a lot of people listening who are thinking, I don't know what that is. This is the first time I've ever heard that. So can you say a little bit more in your words? Like how would you describe IFS for someone who's never come across it before? Yeah, I'm still trying to put together an elevator speech after 40 years, but I'll give

it another shot. So the basic idea is that we all have what I call parts of us that interact inside of us and they're often patterns to those interactions. But what we call thinking is often debates between one part that says, do it, and other parts don't you dare. And that kind of goes on without us even being aware that they're coming from separate entities in a sense. And so I stumbled onto this when my clients began talking about their parts, and they would talk about the critic and then the one who made them binge because I was working with eating disorders.

And all that would trigger the part that made them feel worthless. And I thought they were just talking metaphorically about their emotions. But they started talking about these parts as if they had a lot of autonomy and had relationships with each other. And I got curious and learned that indeed not just my clients, but we all have these little critters inside of us. And that they're all valuable. We're sort of born this way because they have valuable qualities and resources to help

us in our lives. But trauma and attachment injuries or bad parenting, which is your specialty. My specialty is bad parenting. Respecting bad parenting, yes. Those events force them out of their naturally valuable states into roles that can be destructive and can affect our parenting. So the goal of IFS is to help those parts unburden the extreme beliefs and emotions that came from those traumas and at which point they'll almost like a curse has been lifted, they'll

transform into their naturally valuable states and they become helpers in our parenting rather than obstacles. So we all have parts of us and actually figuring out kind of the adaptive and desired role for each of those parts is really, really key. Now just to kind of start again with the foundation, one of the things you talk about is kind of different categories of parts, right? They kind of fall into different categories.

Can you give a brief overview of kind of self and the categories of different parts? Yeah, you know, my training is as a family therapist. So as I'm hearing about all this, I'm trying to make a map of what the territory is in there. And so I'm looking for distinctions. And the big distinction that leaped out immediately was between parts of us that before they were hurt

or shamed or terrified, were these, what other systems call these innocent inner children who land us all kinds of playfulness and liveliness and creativity and joy, but once they get hurt or scared or shamed, they take on those feelings. It's almost like a virus. They take into them what we call those burdens and those organize their activities thereafter and drive the way they are. And also they get frozen in time

so that many of these parts, think you're still five years old and think you're still as much danger as you were back then. And that they have to protect you in the same way. Those parts that are these vulnerable inner children who get so hurt or shamed or terrified, now they have the power to make us feel terrible. They can blend with us and take over and make us feel what they carry. And so we don't want anything to do with them.

And we think we're just moving on from the memory sensations, emotions, and beliefs of the trauma. We don't realize that we're locking them away in inner basements and moving on in our life, but leaving actually many of our most precious qualities in these inner cells. And so those we call exiles. Can we give an example of that just to get it really grounded? So knowing a lot of our listeners, our parents, their parents of young kids, I know a theme,

and I'd love to explore this further as we go on, is parents who feel like they've really lost access to any of the kind of non-caregiving, non-gazing out, taking care of other parts, right? So there might have been a part of them in this model. Let's see that. I don't know, that love to play soccer, love to like just be free and move their body. Or maybe there's a part that love to be creative.

I don't know, making this up. And when they were young, they always, it was just like, oh, you're making us late in this family and you're so selfish. And you never listen to me, put away those crayons. Why are you always so into yourself? Don't you know you have responsibilities in this family? Let's say, right, this was happening. How does that relate to this exile in burden? So that message coming from a parent goes right to the heart of these young parts and they take in the shame of it. And we do too. And we now just to survive in the family feel like we have to put away the

part that wants to color or be creative. And it feels very ashamed too. It carries that burden of worthlessness. And so we wind up moving on in our life and having this sense of worthlessness drive our life and not having access to the creativity that we locked away that way. So now let's say, you know, this is a, you know, memory, a series of memories, five years old, six year old girl. Now this person's a mom, right? And how might the other parts of her system serve? In a way that they think they're being helpful, right? Or maybe initially they were helpful to the system,

but as you were saying now, or maybe working more against her than for her, what are the other parts? There's this kind of burdened kind of child part that's carrying around this burden of worthlessness, right? Okay. What else is in this internal family system? So, when you have a part that gets exiled that way, then other parts have to leave their

naturally valuable states and become protectors. And some of them will protect the system in your family as your child by echoing the message that you got from your parent. And they become these inner critics. And they are criticizing you just to desperately try to keep you safe for more criticism from your parent to preempt it or to keep that playful creative part locked away. So it doesn't show up and get more attacked from the mother or the father. So some of them are trying to manage your life so you fit in the family and you don't get more shame. And so we call those managers. They're the ones who are working all the time to keep us safe that way. And they also get stuck back there. They also think even as an adult they have to criticize you and they'll use your parents' voice to do it. But it's not just the inner critics that are the managers.

There's lots of others. There are parts that maybe take care of everybody so that they love you and then depend on you. And they don't let you take care of yourself. For example, or there are parts that keep you in your head all the time. So you don't feel your emotions or your body very much. And so in that situation, those managers, if I'm thinking about, and this was a client of mine, who, as seems like every waking hour, it was like the kids' schedule, and they're after schools

and the caretaking and the perfect house, right? Could that be seen as a part, that kind of that busyness, that pouring herself out, that kind of serve to keep at bay, this more creative, fun loving part? There's almost no time for her to emerge in adulthood. Yeah, and that is what happens to us. You know, one parent maybe does that by focusing on their career, and then the other parent does it by focusing on the kids, but either way it's a big distraction because when you have a lot of anxiety, you've got to find a way to stay away from their emotions. And so these perfectionistic managers really start to focus on your kids and impose those same burdens on to your kids that becomes what I call a legacy burden. In the sense that it gets handed down through the generations of,

you know, you have to work hard all the time, there's no time for coloring. And you've got to do all these activities to make sure you're perfect. So you make me feel good. Okay, so on that note, I want us to listen to a question actually on this topic from one of the good inside members. Hi, Dr. Becky. My name is Jessica and I wanted to ask Dr. Schwarz a question, what would you say to parents who are worried about their legacy parts

being passed down to their children. How would we know that's happening and how can we help them? Thanks. So this is right on time, right? Because I hear, and I think we'll be good to jump in with an example so we can make it really concrete. Because one of the things I do here is I want to give a different version of motherhood to my kids. I don't want to pass on this legacy of martyrdom, of loss of self, of alternating between depletion and rage, depletion

rage, depletion rage, and self-sacrifice, and how, how do I do that? How do I change that? So are you saying those are your personal legacy burdens that came down to your family? Yeah, but that was someone's legacy burden. This legacy of self-sacrifice, of martyrdom, of loss of self. And maybe it is even related to that other example, like loss as they became a mother of other parts of them that had more vitality, more self-interest, more curiosity, more creativity. So particularly in mothers, the cultural legacy burden would be patriarchy and the idea that

women should be self-sacrificing and take care of everybody. So that would be the root of that legacy, but it might also be related to your personal lineage and something that happened centuries ago in the way of a trauma that made that person, that mother feel like she couldn't take care of herself and she needed to take care of herself and she needed to take care of everybody else and then comes down to the generations. So just even to notice that you have that impulse and ideally to get feedback from therapists or friends There's the first step and then there's a whole process by which we can have you

identify it and actually unload it once you decide that you don't want to live your life that way. Hey, so I want to let you in on something that's kind of counterintuitive about parenting. The most impactful way we can change our parenting actually doesn't involve learning any new parenting strategies. The most impactful way we can change our parenting is by giving ourselves more resources, so we can show up as sturdier, so we can show up as calm amidst the inevitable chaos. It's what our kids need from us more than anything else. This is why I'm doing my

mom rage workshop again. I'm doing it again because it is one of my most popular ones to date. It's coming up July 19, but no worries if you can't make it live. It'll be available as a recording for whenever you have the time. I promise it's really the best investment we can make, not only in ourselves, but also in our kids. Can't wait to see you there at goodinside.com. You use the word curious a lot. And I know that you talk about something called the eight seas of self. Yeah.

And it just always strikes this like, oh, that feels so right. And like in some ways, so intuitive. You know, whenever I read the words you write about that are here you. So can you talk about self with a capital S in these eight sees? Yeah.

So in the early days, I didn't know about self. And I was just working with these parts. And as a family therapist trying to help them get along once I learned that they weren't what they seemed. So I would try to have them have dialogues with each other and I would find that sometimes it would go okay and then maybe I'm trying to get my client to listen to her critic and suddenly she's furious with the critic and it reminded me of family sessions where I'm having two family members talk to each other and a third jumps in and interferes.

So I started asking, could you get the one who's so angry at the critic to just give us some space and chill for a minute? And to my maizamist clients could do it. And when that happened, it was like a whole other person popped out who was spontaneously curious but also calm and confident and even had compassion for the critics suddenly. And the critic would respond very well to that and would share its secret history of how it got forced into this role and how it carries the mother's voice and so on. And then we could go ahead and heal it.

But as I did this with other clients and found the same person would pop out simply by getting other parts to step out and give some room. And I saw that not only those four C's that I just mentioned, but people would also suddenly have clarity. The part would look different, would look a lot less menacing. They would have the courage to go places inside. They were afraid of before suddenly. They would have very creative ways of relating inside and they would also have a desire to connect. So those are the 8C words that characterize this person who popped out. And when I'm working with a parent, the goal becomes to help them lead their parenting from this place with those 8C's. What we call self-led parenting. And that's a great transition. I just want to name them. These eight seas. Compassion,

creativity, curiosity, confident, courage, calm, connectedness, clarity. And you know, the lexicon was like really generous to you with all those sea worlds, right? Like it really worked out. I hope you've I hope you've I hope you've thanks the So, I would love to take a question from another Jessica, a different Jessica, who wants to hear from you around kind of, she says it all differently, but essentially accessing self in helping her child. Hi, Dr. Becky. My question is about my 12-year-old daughter. She's shared with me harsh thoughts she has about her appearance and can be very critical of herself. She's been biting her nails for years and has tried to stop, but it's never lasted more than a few weeks.

She's also smart, thoughtful, very funny, and has close friends. I've talked to her about our different parts and she's receptive. My question today is how can I go deeper with her? For example, leading her through an IFS meditation or encouraging her to try one herself or other ideas on how to make this material come alive for an adolescent. Thanks very much. Well, first let me compliment you on how you're relating to her around these parts.

You know, the parts that she described are what we call firefighters. They're trying to keep her away from her bad feelings inside, often it's feelings of shame and worthlessness. And so they do things like make you bite your nails or focus on appearance. And some of that is often a distraction from these more vulnerable feelings.

And so many of us as parents focus on the behavior and try to get them to stop without getting curious about the source of the behavior. without getting curious about the source of the behavior. And so this Jessica is doing exactly the right thing, which is to be very present and compassionate. And then in terms of the next steps, can I jump in before the next steps? Because I just had something I want to echo to, where part of me heard Jessica's voice mail,

and I went to bed like, no, no, no, no, you're doing a lot like next question. You know what I mean? Like you're doing. So and just for everyone listening here, when our kids are struggling, my kids do like I go into okay, what else can I do? What else can I do? How can I go deeper? How can I do more? And I think that comes from such an amazing impulse we have to want to support our kids. And impulse, we have to want to support our kids. And it's just powerful to spend a little bit more time than we naturally do in the, like, wow, I'm doing a lot. And like my child's immediate behavior

isn't always a great barometer for the impact our relationship is having. And I'm doing a lot, right? And just to pause in that is important, right? Because I hear Jess, and I'm doing a lot, right? And just to pause in that is important, right? Because I hear Jess, and I'm like, whoa, like, can I have you on speed dial? Like, you're pretty amazing. That's a really good point.

And, you know, I was developing IFS and raising my kids at the same time, my girls. And I would try that. I would say, okay, let's get to know this part of you. And they came to have a common phrase of, get out of here with that part shit daddy. So I like your kids. And so I had to back off and learn to do just what Jessica did, which is just to be staying self. With those eight seas, well my kids are talking about these kinds of problems and. Get the part of me that wants to fix them so desperately.

To relax and step back and trust. That the best I can do at that point is really just convey that compassionate presence. Let's go in two directions from here. One is what is something else you hear this that you may tell a parent, oh try this or you know when it feels right and then the other question I want you to answer, even though Jessica didn't ask it, is why wouldn't you say to a kid, you know, stop writing your nails or like, why? Why not to say, oh, stop doing that. That's so bad for you. Or, you know, well, here's

a sticker for every day you don't bite your nails, right? So let's get to that second. Because I think there's a lot of listeners who might be thinking understandably like, oh, all this part stuff, like there might just be a shorter route just to like stop the nail biting. So let's let's get to that understandable skepticism after we maybe share with Jessica like one additional thing she might wanna have in her toolbox. Yeah, well that's the parenting approach my parents used

which was any kind of bad habit, just stop it. Maybe it's on to me of that old Bob Newhart routine where he's a therapist. Just stop it. Stop it. The problem with that is first of all, new heart routine, or he's a therapist. Just stop it. Stop it. The problem with that is, first of all, you can't always just stop it. And so you feel very ashamed of yourself for the lack of willpower as a kid.

And then in just stopping it, you may be exiling a part that really wants attention and you're going to raise a kid who might not choose fingernails, might even perform well in school, but is really cut off from large segments of his psyche that he'll pay for later. And that firefighter behavior can then escalate, right? Yeah, because if he's not getting to and embracing his exiles, which is really when you're present in a loving way, and your child senses, it's okay to be vulnerable. And those exiles can come out, not overtly, maybe, but just, you know,

that your kid knows he can cry with you and talk about what's going on. And you're not in any way shaming or distancing or telling them to grow up. That's very healing for those exiles, even though you're not explicitly doing IFS with your kid. Just the sense that all parts are welcome that you're conveying is a very healing message and is the opposite of the message of just stop doing it. Yeah. So for Jessica is that what you would share with her? Like you're doing so much and just showing up in that way staying curious, staying compassionate kind of in some ways you're saying that that part is lovable and can be present in her presence, right? I think. Exactly right. The more you can accept

all the different parts of your kid, the more they'll be able to accept them and listen to them and love them. And the more you don't accept certain parts, the more they're going to exile those and pull their ass. And just for everyone listening, I know for me sometimes I think, do I want my kid to accept all of their parts? Like some of that seems pretty intense or nasty. And what I often come back to, and Dick I'm curious, if you see it the same way, is the parts, the experiences, the feelings by kid internalizes as unacceptable.

There's no choice but for those experience to have to end up being expressed outside their body, it's it's almost like the more I can help my child sit with all of their parts, that's actually key to learning to regulate and manage all of the feelings, all the experiences they're going to have, which actually from a practical standpoint, needs to a decrease in kind of quote-bad or acting out behavior because my child is able to kind of have all those experiences live somewhere inside their body instead of expel them outside their body. That's exactly right. And it also is not easy if you as a parent have an attitude about a bunch of your parts.

So that's all going to transfer into how you relate to your kid when they act like some of the parts of you that you don't like. So I now feel like you received the questions from our members in advance because I have one more I want to play and once, you've like previewed it. So either, you know, either someone sent something to you, or you have the password to my computer, or you just are all knowing. So I don't know, it's one of those things, are all those things. I look to swatch, my name is Livedelins,

my question is around triggers. I hear many parents feeling triggered by words or behaviors of the children or partners, including myself. And when we're tired or overwhelmed, our reaction can feel and be fast and feel intense. And besides doing the deeper inner work in meaning and hearing our parts, do you have any phrase or exercise we can do in that moment when we feel, let's say, our heart hit, and when we enter into a reaction versus

a response? Yeah, a great question. And I have two answers to that. One is, and it's taken me a long time to get good at this. But as I go through the day and I face with various challenges and provocations. I'm noticing my parts and I've gotten very familiar with how they affect my body and when I notice that impulse come, I can pause and sometimes I'll literally ask the person I'm talking to to just give me a second. And if you had

a microphone in my head, it would be some version of, it's okay. Just let me stay. You know, it always goes better if you let me handle this. And I'll feel this shift, of palpable shift, and all that energy will kind of step back. And so on a good day, I can do that. Now, there are times like she was saying when you're really tired or you're sick, where

you can't, and a part does go off on your kid and you really sense it did damage. But there's always a chance to repair. And so I got very good at going to my kids and saying, you know, yesterday when I yelled at you about that, I'm really sorry. I'm going to keep working with this part that has such an attitude about that. And, you know, I really don't want you to do what we were talking about, but I should have said in a much different way. So the repair is a really important part of parenting and it's hard for many parents. And I'm just like so glad we're ending on this because it's in line with everything I believe

to be true to. And when parents, parents will often ask me like, what's your best tip? Like, give me your quick best parenting tip. I'm always under so much pressure. I'm like, okay, you know, but it's always easy for me. I'm always like, if you're going to get really good at one thing in parenting, get really good at repair. And I think there's like a power in thinking about that because if you get really good

at repair, it actually almost like requires you to keep messing up. Like it really assumes that you're not going to get it perfect all the time, right? Nobody is parenting like it looks on that one Instagram you saw on someone's feed like that is not real parenting that is in some ways just shame and guilt inducing parenting and being a parent who can I think first repair with themself right kind of find your own goodness under your latest not so great behavior that's always step one I think it's the step we your latest, not so great behavior. That's always step one. I think it's the step we miss that kind of version of compassion toward our self first. And then the step two of, yeah, reconnecting with your kid. Probably, I haven't thought about this way, but you almost

probably add all those, those seeds to a moment that probably lacked all those seeds or we do add some of them, right? Absolutely right. That is, that's the reparative element is coming back to your kid saying, I'm sorry from this open-hearted compassionate place and just owning what you did. And that's, you hinted at this, but that's really hard when you have a very intense, shaming protector who is making you feel worthless for having done it, then you're going to have another part that wants to defend you and deny what you did or distort it to say you had a good reason for it and then you'd wind up not making the repair. Right? That's exactly right. And so repair is just like where it's at.

I said I always say. And you know, when we repair with our kids, I always imagine, I don't know why, like the moment with my kid that felt bad, was some like temporary ending to a chapter. But like, I don't wanna end the chapter that way. And when I repair, like I actually get to go back and like reopen it and and add a different ending.

And that's the thing, I think, for so many people repair, which can feel so shame-inducing. Like, oh, what's wrong with me? I think the opposite, like, oh, look at this opportunity I have. I have this opportunity to end this chapter differently. It's so empowering. Exactly right.

Thank you so much for this conversation. Thank you so much for this conversation. Thank you so much for joining me here. Thank you so much for your incredibly impactful work. And I know it's only a matter of time before I track you down and talk to you again soon. I always love talking to you anytime, talk to you back. Thanks. And I'm so grateful and honored that I can be a part of your message to parents because

I think it's so important what you're doing. Thank you. Thanks for listening. To share a story or ask me a question, go to goodinside.com-podcast. You could also write me at podcast at goodinside.com. Parenting is the hardest and most important job in the world. And parents deserve resources and support so they feel empowered, confident, and connected. I'm so excited to share good inside membership.

The first platform that brings together content and experts you trust with a global community of like valued parents. It's totally game-changing. Good inside with Dr. Becky is produced by Jesse Baker and Eric Newsom at Magnificent Noise. Our production staff includes Sabrina Farhi, Julia Nat and Kristen Muller. I would also like to thank Eric Kabelsky, Mary Panico, Jill Cromwell Wang, Ashley Valenzuela, and the rest of the good inside team. And one last thing before I let you go. Let's end by placing our hands on our hearts and reminding ourselves, even as I struggle, and even as I have a hard time on the outside, I remain good inside.

you