Good Inside with Dr. Becky - What You Need To Know About The Emotional Lives of Teenagers

Episode Date: March 7, 2023

Being a teenager these days is harder than ever before. Not only are they dealing with the regular day-to-day of being a hormonal adolescent but they're also grappling with smartphones as the new foundation of their friendships, the pressures of social media, and trying to get into college in a much more cut-throat environment. Dr. Lisa Damour joins Dr. Becky to talk about how parents can navigate the teenage years and raise connected, capable, and compassionate adolescents. Join Good Inside Membership: http://bit.ly/3ybVy7MFollow Dr. Becky on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/drbeckyatgoodinsideSign up for our weekly email, Good Insider: https://www.goodinside.com/newsletterOrder Dr. Becky's book, Good Inside: A Guide to Becoming the Parent You Want to Be, at goodinside.com/book or wherever you order your books.For a full transcript of the episode go to goodinside.com/podcast 

I think that if you were I were to try to do a teenager's day, my third period would be like, I'm done, I'm not putting up with one more adult who's telling me what to do or I cannot stand that kid who is sitting next to me and I can't take it. They put up with a huge amount. Dr. Lisa DeMore gets teenagers. She's a clinical psychologist with 30 years of experience, working with the pressures, hormones, and emotions of teens. So if you have a teenager in your home, or if one day you will have a teenager in your home, then turn this episode up.

We very rarely with teenagers in our own homes get a very good picture of their overall mental functioning because they are more vulnerable at home. They are more likely to express concerns. They are more likely to fall apart. And we should not generalize that to think that that's what's happening. And I would say like usually like a huge massive majority of the time, the fact that they can lose it at home or fall apart at home or be we be or kind of all over the map at home, is what allows them to be the sturdy, solid, reasonable human beings.

They are under conditions that are actually quite difficult. Dr. Lisa DeMore now has three books on teenagers and all of my friends with older kids have told me that they are required reading. She's the author of Untangled and Under Pressure, and now she's written a book for teens of all genders, the emotional lives of teenagers, raising connected, capable, and compassionate adolescents. It really wasn't planning on writing another book. I was sort of taking a little bit of a breather. But the combined effects of teenager suffering as they did through the pandemic, and then

also the cultural understanding of what makes for mental health and how we help kids with distress, becoming a bit off course in my mind, I really felt like it was time for me to try to lay out what we know from the academic and clinical side about what healthy development looks like and what actually the place of distress in our lives is, which is actually a very important part of our lives, and to try to offer reassurance to parents that there's so much they can do in their own homes to care for their kids. I'm Dr. Becky, and this is good inside. We'll be back in a minute.

Hey Sabrina. Hey. So I've been thinking about toys recently. I don't want the toy to do that much of the work. I want the toy to inspire my kid to do the work because actually the toys that get really busy and do a lot of things, kids actually lose interest in so quickly. Oh, totally. There's certain toys that my kids have just played with throughout the years. I have a six year old and a three year old. Like what? So I have these wooden blocks

from Melissa and Doug. They're super simple. Just plain wooden, no color. And my kids love them. They're always building castles or like a dinosaur layer. And then my oldest will tell my youngest to like Decorate them after he's built this crazy cool structure My go-to is our Melissa and Doug too I feel like we have this ice cream scooper thing that my kids use when they were two and then they used again When they were developing better fine motor skills and then for my kind of four-year-old my seven-year-old still using it in Imaginative play I really only like talking about items and brands that we actually use in our own home and Melissa and Doug, I just don't know if there's any other brand I feel so good about

naming the way that their toys actually inspire creativity and open-ended screen-free child led play. It's just unmatched. And like what's honestly so exciting is to be able to offer everyone listening to this podcast, 20% off. Visit molissaandug.com and use code Dr. Becky20DRBECKY20 for 20% off your order. Molissa and Doug, timeless toys, endless possibilities.

So mental health and teens, I feel like this has been a headline everywhere, this statistics rate. So just mental health, how do you think about that term? What is mental health? So really the book centers on a definition that I, it's the way I describe it, but you know, you're a clinical psychologist, I think, you know, it's how we all think about it together, is that mental health is actually not about feeling good. And this is a huge issue, because I think that equation has emerged in our culture. Rather, it's about having feelings that make sense in the context you're in, and then most importantly, being able to handle those feelings well in ways that give relief and do no harm. So there's a lot of room for distress

in how we talk and think about mental health. Let's just jump right into an example there. I'm just gonna paint a picture. And maybe could you respond like from the feeling good standpoint, here's what a parent would think a kid should look like. And from a mental health as defined by Dr. Lisa DeMores standpoint, here's what it would look like. Okay, so my kid gets cut from varsity soccer.

My kid is in a lot of really difficult classes, is not doing as well as they might like a couple of their friends start dating people. They feel like nobody likes me. Actually, I feel like I don't look as old as the other kid. Okay, I'm going to stop. Yeah. Give me like the fork in road, because I always think our framework determines how we feel, what we do.

And I think you're talking about a big framework shift. So let's lay those two things out. Sure, and I mean, I love what you just described. I mean, you just described a week in a life of a teenager, right? Like everything you're describing is like right down the middle of the road of what families are living with. And so let me just zoom us out a little and then zoom us back in.

Everything you're describing is going to upset a kid, right? Getting cut, struggling academically, feeling like they're a little bit on the out of what's happening on the social scene. And all of those things are going to foster distress. Like there's no getting around that. And what you said about the headlines. I think the part of what parents are up against right now is that in a lot of the headlines around

the adolescent mental health crisis, which is real, there's no meaningful distinction made between adolescents being in distress and adolescents since having a mental health crisis. And so what I am up against in my clinical work is parents who are living with a kid who's having that crappy week, right? That week that is completely garden variety, seeing tons of distress and thinking, oh, do we have a major mental health concern because my kid isn't so much distress?

So that is what's scary. Okay, so to go to your idea, like, okay, let's where's the fork in the road? Yeah. If your kid gets cut from a team, as they do, we should fully expect they will be upset about that, right? They will be, you know, it has vast implications sometimes for kids, and it's very, very distressing. The presence of distress is actually not something that you or I, Becky, become alarmed by. In fact, and this is the real fork in the road, it's evidence that the kid works perfectly, right? It's evidence of their mental health. Yeah. Okay, where the road forks is what happens next. Okay. So does the kid who is sad about getting cut from the team or mad

about getting cut from the team, go listen to angry or sad songs to kind of catalyze those feelings and have them out a little bit, talk to their good friends about what happened and get some support, maybe cry. Crying is a great way to express distress that does no harm and gives relief, maybe go for a run, maybe then resolve to figure out how they're not going to have this happen next year, or what else they're going to put in that place. Okay, so that's as good as it gets. Those are the outcomes we're looking for. Where we become concerned, and there are places, right? It's not like, oh, this is okay. Where we become concerned, if the kid is like, I am so upset, I'm going to get super high to deal with this,

and I'm going to stay high all week until the feeling dies down. Or I'm going to get on social media and be really crummy to the kids, you know, about the kids who made the team. Or I am going to hop on my video game and be there for a week so that I don't have to think about this and cut out all other aspects of my life. My life, then we're like, okay, so the kid is getting relief, you know, trash and people on social media is coping, you know, trash and people on social media is coping, you know, getting high is coping, hiding in video games is coping, but it's relief that comes at a cost.

And so what we're looking for is coping that is not costly. As long as your kid is coping in ways that are not costly, that's as good as it gets. That's adolescence that it's absolute best. The distress is a done deal. So, you know, this lines up with something I think about a lot about feelings and reactions to feelings.

And often when we see our kids really upset, we're like, oh no, my kids really sad or my kid feels so left out or my kid feels less than the other kids. Our kids are gonna feel feels so left out, or my kid feels less than the other kids. Our kids are going to feel upset and left out and less than feelings for the rest of their lives. I just know this is a fact because I feel that still as adults, right? Like the feelings are part of a human existence and how we react to the feelings, how we learn to cope with the feelings. That's like, that's where it's at.

That's where it all hinges. It's where it all hinges. And I will say, so I have a daughter who's 19 and a daughter who was 12. And so I've done, I'm on both ends of adolescence actually, as a mother myself. And I will say there is such value in having seen what intense adolescent emotionality looks like in your own home. And I will tell you a back key, like my kids are great. They're doing great, they're sturdy fabulous. Kids are really lucky and I know it. But that experience of seeing the full strength of a teenage emotion.

I can hold two things in mind at the same time. One is, that is harrowing. That is terrifying. That is so intense. Even if it turns out an hour later, the kid doesn't even remember what it was that made her so upset. And then side by side by that thinking, okay, I'm a psychologist. I've seen a lot. I know that this is actually not grounds for concern, but I've had moments in my own parenting where I have thought, if I did not know this is standard fear, I would be terrified right now. Like what? Give us some examples. This is part of adolescence. It's hard, it's going to be tricky, and it's part of it. Absolutely. So one of those stories I tell in the book is about a friend

who I had lunch with, who I see her shortly after Christmas, and she's like, oh my gosh, I almost called you. And what she goes on to describe is that her daughter who has just turned 13 had meltdown after meltdown through the holidays over things that were her even to the girl herself small. She didn't go, she wanted from the grandparents and that wasn't the issue. She just felt bad about not wanting it. She was really sorry to see Christmas getting put away. And the kids' response was that she was doubled over sobbing, doubled over. And even as she was doubled over sobbing, the kid was saying, I feel crazy.

I feel like I do not know what's happening because that could hold two things in mind. Like one, I am overreacting and two, I cannot stop. And so I was so glad my friend brought it up because I could say, okay, what you are describing as really like outrageous as it feels in the moment, that standard fare, especially the kid was 13. 13 is a wildly dysregulated time in emotional development. And so having that awareness that the distress even at that volume is not necessarily grounds for concern, what the kid does next is what we want to pay attention to. That was thankfully reassuring to my friend, but that's the kind of stuff I'm talking about. The parents are like, what is this and how worried do I need to be?

So I imagine a parent listening to this right now and be like, oh, okay, that's relieving. And then I feel like a lot of them have this question. These says, when that happens, like, what should I do? What should I do in that moment with my kid? Okay, I think the first thing we have to do

is to serve as a steady presence, even if that means we have to fake it. I really, I really mean that. And I'm not a big believer in faking it. But here is the thing. When your kid is half freaked out, it is very easy as a parent to meet them right there. And here is why either we want to try to be steady or we want to pretend as though we're steady outwardly.

Because the first thing that's going to happen, and you know, I use this analogy all the time and this comes up in your work all the time, right? If we think about toddlers, they fall down and scrape their knee, they look at their knee and then the next thing they look at is your face. Okay. So the adolescent equivalent of that is the kid is doubled over sobbing over Christmas gifts. And they are really, really alarmed by it. They are looking at what's happening and then they're going to look at your face.

And if you are on the ceiling, the experience for that 13-year-old, so I'm 52, right? So if you're on the ceiling, the experience of that is, okay, I thought this was a 13-year-old size problem, but the 52-year-old-size problem, but the 52-year-old is freaked out. This is a 52-year-old-size problem. This is terrifying to me. So part of what we are doing is with our composure, helping keep it down to size. So that is the first thing you do, and it can be really hard. I'm curious to say the second or the third is. I mean, I actually think for everyone listening like that first thing, I don't know, I feel like it's probably like 95% of the thing.

And it's also like whatever the other 5%, probably doesn't matter that much if we can't kind of work toward at least that first step. And I always think about things visually too. And it is a teen, a toddler, an adult, you know, to adult relationship. When one person is so dysregulated, their feelings are greater than their ability to cope with those feelings in the moment. It's like a tornado, right? And if you picture a tornado, like a spiral

in a big glass container, the tornado can only go so far. You're like, oh, there's a tornado, but it's contained, literally. If you picture a tornado without a glass container, you're like, oh, that's not a safe in my house. And when we're steady, when we're faking steady, when we're saying, okay, Dr. Demors, this is normal, this is normal, my kid's good,

nothing's wrong with me or my kid, we are the container for a kid's tornado. When we, and I've been there too, I know Lisa's been there, we all add our tornado to a kid's tornado. When we, and I've been there too, I know Lisa's been there, we all add our tornado to our kid's tornado, and we always will, and just hope to do it a little bit less over time. But when we add our tornado to a kid's tornado,

of course the tornado gets bigger. It's not even our fault, it's just like, I don't know, it's like physics or weather, you know, it's just like it's just what happens. Yep, and it is hard. And I, yes, I've absolutely been there as a parent. I have absolutely thought like,

okay, if I can't keep it together with all of my training and knowledge, I can't imagine what this feels like for other families in their homes, right? I mean, it's such a good thing to have your own children if you're helping people with their children. And so I just took with everything you're saying.

And I also agree like if you could get that, you know, the study presence right, that container right, probably doesn't matter much what happens next. Though I do, I do in the book, and I do try to be like incredibly concrete in the last two chapters of like, let me give you 10 strategies for helping kids express emotions. Let me give you 10 strategies for helping them

get things back under control. So I do really try to equip parents with, I call them a playbook, playbook four, playbook five, right? Like chapters four and five. And usually the first play is you let the kid talk. You let them talk and talk and talk. And I love your tornado analogy. Like it can only go so far. I always Like it can only go so far.

I always say it can only go so far. And how it's such an act of love. And if you think about yourself, like I always think, imagine I went to like a party, right? There was like some big party. It's like everyone I knew. And I was just like in a mood, okay? And I was going around to everyone.

You know, my husband was there too, just being like, yeah, the worst. I hate you. Like I hope all the things happened to you in your life. I don't know, right? If my husband, like kind of did pick me up and like carry me to a room and sit with me, and just be like, look, something's going on, but like, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna let this thing

destroy the world around you, because you're not gonna feel good about it. It's not because I'm a barrett. It's because like, I know you. Like, this doesn't feel good to you. I'm going to sit with you and we're going to be in the smaller room as a container. It's not done because we're mad at our kids. It's done because we're on the same team and we're still protecting our kids. Absolutely. And one of the beauties of adolescence is right. They suddenly have a whole lot of

language. And so I think about, you know, the toddler version of containment and the adolescent version and containment, meaning like helping kids get things back under control. So teenagers will talk. And one of the studies I detail in the book that I need the reminder as a parent is that the act of expressing one's emotions actually confers its own relief. You know, we do neurological studies where we put electrodes on people's skin to check emotional arousal or we look at the activity of the amygdala in real time in their brain to check emotional arousal.

And when we ask people, we've put photos in front of them of distressing things, in natural disasters, things like that. And to half of them, we say, tell us what it feels like to look at this photo and to half of them, we say, tell us the facts of the photo. No one is responding. They're not even, they're in a machine. They're alone. But the mere act of saying, I feel really anxious.

I feel really upset. I feel really worried or whatever it is the kid is feeling. We see from these objective physiological markers actually brings their distress down. So I think for us as parents, like so step number one, fake or actually be a steady presence. Step number two. Can you double click step number one? So for parents, okay, I'm gonna do that. But do I say certain words?

Like what words? What is it to do? I take a deep breath and say something to myself to calm my own body. Like what? Let's just give them one thing. Like a steady presence. Maybe we each could.

Could mean what are two different ways to be a steady presence? Okay, so one is, I mean, I think a lot of it is like, manage your face because the thing is about our kids. I don't know if your kids are doing this with you yet, but like, they will pick up my mood before I have picked up my mood. They'll be like, what's going on? And then I'll realize that I'm holding my face in a way that I wasn't even conscious of,

but that they're aware of. So I would say first thing you do is think like, can you put a calm reassuring look on your face? Like that would be the place I would have you start. And it may involve taking some breaths, maybe rubbing their back. Right. I mean, language is probably not going to be your best friend here, right? You probably are going to do this almost entirely nonverbaly. And one of the analogies I've played with at times is, you know, if your kid is flooding, you need to be an emotional sandbag, right? So like, whatever sandbag looks like to you, that's you in that moment. Great.

So I love that. And I agree. Our kids feel our intention more than our words. Sometimes words can put our intention into action. So I think another option, I just find there's something about saying to a kid when they're really upset. Like, I another option, I just find there's something about saying to a kid when they're really upset. Like, I believe you and I'm here. That is kind of like, I see the tornado, I believe it's real,

and I am that container I'm here. So, I think that's great. Like, check your face and maybe if you want language, or like, I know, like, what do I say? I need that sometimes too. I was just, try that. I believe you and I'm here. So simple. Yeah, I love that. I love that. Okay, so then step number? I need that sometimes too. I was just, try that. I believe you. And I'm here. So simple.

Yeah, I love that. I love that. Okay. So then step number two is let the kid talk. Hmm. Just let him talk. I mean, just listen, listen, listen, listen. And it feels like nothing.

It feels inadequate. And what I love is when you try it and mix face for it, you get reinforced in doing it again, because kids get like, oh, thank you so much. And then you're done and you're like, that's it. That's all it took. So when you say, listen, because presence is in action, it feels like nothing, but I always say

that my self-becky presence is in action. And I feel like what you're insinuating, he says, like, less is more. 100%. 100%. 100%. But I also, let's just go deeper on this idea And I feel like what you're insinuating, Lee says, like, less is more. 100%. 100%. But I also, let's just go deeper on this idea of like presence while listening. So one of the strategies I offer in the book is something that I find I need, especially when a kid is upset, and I'm moving into activating one, to give advice, want to sometimes just shut a down mode, to be honest, is to think about what really to listen means. And what it means is what I use is the idea of like, I pretend

that I'm an editor, and that the kids rant or melt down or whatever is my reporter reading me their article of their distress. And my job is when they get to the end of the article, I have to produce the headline. So I am distilling, I am not adding, I am getting the essential meat of it back to them. And what you say back to you about like they sense our intention, if you are listening so hard, because you have, you know, to come up with a headline at the end of that article, they will sense that, right? They can tell, oh, she's really listening,

she's not waiting for me to pause just to tell me what to do, right? She is actually actually listening. And I will tell you, I very rarely get to a good headline, like I very rarely, I'll tell you the one time I did a really good job and it's in the book because I think it's helpful to have an example. But mostly I don't, or I blow it, but it doesn't matter

because like you're saying, they can sense that you are all in on paying attention. So I'll give you the good example. My older daughter was a high school sophomore when the pandemic struck. And I would say end of March, early April, the full reality of what had become of school really, I think snapped into focus for her. And she'd been home obviously for a few weeks at that point.

And remember where we were standing in the living room. And she had a rant. And she was like, Oh my God, like they have taken away lunch. They have taken away seeing my friends. They have taken away clubs. They have taken away sports. They have taken away dances. They took away everything fun, but they left us the APs. They left us the homework. They left us the lectures. They left us the duties. And she was just beside herself, rightly so.

And I listened, listened, listened. And at the end I said, oh, honey, man, it's like school is now all vegetables, no dessert. And she goes, yes. And then she walked out. And for the next hour, she was okay. You know what I mean? Which, honestly, under those conditions,

that was as much of a win as we were going to get. But that's what we're going for. Hey, so I want to let you in on something that's kind of counterintuitive about parenting. The most impactful way we can change our parenting actually doesn't involve learning any new parenting strategies. The most impactful way we can change our parenting is by giving ourselves more resources so we can show up as sturdier so we can show up as calm amidst the inevitable chaos. It's what our kids need from us more than anything else. This is why I'm doing my mom rage

workshop again. I'm doing it again because it is one of my most popular ones to date. It's coming up July 19, but no worries if you can't make it live. It'll be available as a recording for whenever you have the time. I promise it's really the best investment we can make not only in ourselves, but also in our kids. Can't wait to see you there at GoodInside.com. Can we roleplay something? Can you give me a teenage rant?

Because I think one of the things that happens when you're a parent is you hear your kids say something and you have this instinct like, I'm gonna help them look on the bright side. I'm gonna tell them an example where that actually isn't true, and it's such well-intentioned, like your gut is well-intentioned, but literally always inflames,

but I feel like role-playing it could be helpful. So you know teens rants, like what? I love this so much, because I truly love teenagers. Like, and I love how they describe the world, right, and describe their own world. Okay. So, okay.

So, oh my God, you will not believe what happened today. So, here I am in APU, a history, and we were given a group project, and like, I've got an A in that class. I worked so hard for this A in this class, and the group project that grade will actually affect our overall grade. And this kid Troy, who I have known since the seventh grade, he is one of the three people in our group and he does nothing, he does nothing. He is going to be bossy and annoying and useless to us,

and this kid is going to destroy my grade. Sweden, look, it just seems like you're focusing on like the worst parts of your group, and I'm sure the other kids in the group will really help you out. You were no better, but I'm still the teenager. What's my grade? Oh, yeah, D minus. D minus, also. D minus, D minus for what you said, but A plus for intention. Totally, but I actually, I'm going to challenge it.

I'm going to challenge it. You're going to challenge your grade. We're all doing the best we can with the resources in that moment. And I know every single parent wants to do right by their kid, a hundred percent of parents. And we've been fed over and over this idea.

I think a lot of us were parented this way. That when people are upset in distress, that our job is to like pull them out of that hole. I always think about it, like they're sitting pull them out of that hole. Or I always think about it, like they're sitting on some bench of like distress. I'm on the bench of I got the worst kid in my group, right? They're on the, oh Troy and my group bench. And my job is to pull them off that bench

and be like, look at this sunny bench. It's the at least I have Anna, right? Where? Our job is to sit on the bench with them. The part of distress, that's the worst is being alone in it. That's actually the only really impossible thing. And so in your example of like this,

it sounds like nothing or like, did I even do anything? But I always feel like if I ask myself with my own kids, Becky, what's the equivalent of just sitting on the bench? And then I know, I'll be like, oh, that stinks. Oh, you really wish Troy wasn't in your group.

Oh, the one kid you didn't want. I feel like when you're starting this, I tell parents, just don't have the conversation without a pen, write down what they say, and then read it back to them. And I don't know, is that closer to an A? Like, what do you think a teen wants to hear? So, it's just what I don't know, like, is that closer to an A? Like, what do you think a teen wants to hear? So it's just what I love about teens, like they're very strongly opinionated. So you cannot

take notes and read them back to them that you will lose them right there. But you can do that with a younger kid, right? So don't do that. But I think, honestly, you said it, which is, and I was taught this by an eighth grader in New Jersey, what they mostly want to hear from you is like, oh man, that stinks. That just stinks. And I will tell you 90% of my parental utterances at the end of the day are like, tell me more in a whole more on that stinks. And that is all teenagers want to like, thank you. Thank you. Because here's the way we want to think about it from their standpoint. They got the group assignment in class. And they did not scream, throw themselves on the floor,

look at Troy and Scowell. In fact, they almost certainly walked over to Troy and were like, okay, what's your cell phone number? Let's see if we can find a time to work together this weekend. They were awesome. They were crushed. They crushed it. They did everything we would ever want.

And the thing that allowed them to do it was the knowledge that they were gonna come home and be like, you are not even going above the one that was done in APU as a street today. So when they're bringing it, they're not bringing it, like I'm bringing it because I have this problem I want your help with. Sometimes they are, and we can get to when that's happening.

They are usually bringing it in the form of, I have held myself together all day and been the solid, gracious citizen. You want me to be at school all day. And I just am bursting to tell you this. And I need to discharge it as much as anything else. And a solid, oh man, that stinks is usually like boom, the end of the sentence, job done. I love that so much to remember when your kid comes home. Oh, I got troy in my group and also the lunch was disgusting today at school.

Why don't they ever give us anything good to eat? And to almost hold on to like a different image of your kid walking around, getting choice number, walking to lunch, probably going like this, but then eating and moving on. That probably happened, right? Because we get locked into this one version of our kid in front of us,

and then we think that's gonna be them forever. We actually think like, my kid's gonna be the 40 year old, is gonna, right, like we fast forward their lives. Like I often feel like, especially when kids are younger, like my kids associate path a thing of angel. Like in a second, right? Like how did I get there?

But when they're teens too, and your explanation for all the parents listening, that like your kid needs to let out steam to you. So they can function and perform and be the version of themselves that can adapt the other moments when they're exploring the world. Absolutely. And I don't know if you had this experience in working on your book, but I did with this one back here, the section where I'm sort of thinking some of this through about the fact that we very rarely with teenagers in our own homes get a very good picture of their overall mental

functioning because they are more vulnerable at home. They are more likely to express concerns. They are more likely to fall apart. And we should not generalize that to think that that's what's happening. And I would say like usually like a huge massive majority of the time, the fact that they can lose it at home or fall apart at home or be, we be, or kind of all over the map at home is what allows them to be the sturdy, solid, reasonable human beings. They are under conditions that are actually quite difficult.

I think that if you were I were to try to do a teenager's day, my third period would be like, I'm out. I'm done. I'm not putting up with one more adult who's telling me what to do or I cannot stand that kid who is sitting next to me and I can't take it. They put up with a huge amount. I love that.

A simple but right on perspective. It's hard to be a teenager. And I think sometimes parents like, it's not hard to be a parent of a teenager. Nope, that's also hard. Like they're just both hard. It's hard to be a parent of a teen. It's hard to be a teen. And probably just saying that to your teen once in a while is probably build some connection

capital. It's really hard to be 16. You know, I know that's true. That's all. Walk away after. Absolutely. I mean, like, would we want to go back? Right? Or would we want to do it now?

Right? I mean, I think if we can put it in those framings, I mean, I got off easy. No social media college was easy to get into. You know, I mean, it felt really hard then and it was really hard then. Can you give us a little bit about that? I mean, technology, social media, and of us grew up with this, right? Not in those years. How?

Comparants. Help their teens. Kind of like, I don't know, like minimize the downsides or talk about it in a way that it doesn't just explode. Like, you don't understand, you know? Any brilliant advice. Oh, I have advice. You'll decide.

Okay, so you said something I think brilliant advice. I've advised you. You'll decide. Okay. So you said something I think wildly important just in the framing, which is minimize the downsides. So one of the things that I know to be true about social media is that there's probably not a kid on the planet for whom it is not simultaneously both good and bad. And you have to start from that understanding. Because when we roll up on them, like, oh, your social media is terrible, like get away from your phone, you've already lost them. Because they're like, you are making it clear, you did not understand that this is where I have a

lot of fun. This is where I have deep and meaningful connections with people I care about. This is a place where I'm creative. This is a place where I'm learning discourse at a level that is like way above what we had as teenagers. So if you leave that piece out, you're already talking to the hand in some ways. So I think that the first thing we need to do is to recognize it has pros and cons. And the nice thing about teenagers is they'll be the first to tell you that. Again, I quote a kid in my book, I love my phone and I hate my phone. So meet them there. So get a lot of information. One of the ways to do this, and one of the ways I think to not have the door slammed

in your face when you're trying to talk to your kid about social media, is to remember that what it means to them, we really don't understand. We never used it like they used it. We were not teenagers with it. And no one wants advice from somebody who doesn't really get it, like nobody does. And the analogy, the sounds kind of goofy, but it actually really works. And no one wants advice from somebody who doesn't really get it, like nobody does.

And the analogy, the sounds kind of goofy, but it actually really works. If we come up to a teenager and say, I need to talk to you about your social media, we should imagine the equivalent would be them coming up to us and saying, I need to talk to you about your mortgage, right? Because we'd be like, go away. You know about mortgages. And so instead of your teenager came up to you and said, do we have a mortgage? You say, well, yeah, we got a mortgage.

And then they say, how does the mortgage work? And then we explain how the mortgage works. And they say, and what are we paying in terms of, you know, what's our current interest rate? And you give them all this information. And then if at the very end of that, they were to say, do you understand that I think the rates have been adjusted and you could refinance

and save some money? We'd be like, okay, right? But at least we'd be open to it. Yes. So we need to do the flip around social media. Love that. So what is that? Like yeah.

What's the start? Say, like obviously, like a lot of adults are on the ceiling about social media. How worried should we be? Like ask your kid that question. How worried should be? Like what are the good parts? Like ask them, what are the How worried should be? Like, what are the good parts? Like ask them, what are the best parts of this?

Like, you know, like if suddenly phones just disappeared, like what would you miss the most? How is it most useful to you? How does it serve you best? Like go all the way down that road and then say, what don't you like? Where is it not helping you? Where's the ruin in your mood?

So that's how to have the conversation. And then you can say, is there anything you want to do differently? Is there any way I can help? With a teenager, that's where to have the conversation. And then you can say, is there anything you want to do differently? Is there any way I can help? With a teenager, that's where you're going to win. The other thing I will say is, do not let it mess with their sleep. And it's so basic and so important. And I would say if you do nothing else, try not to have it mess with their sleep.

And the best way to do that is to not have it in their bedrooms when they're supposed to be sleeping. Okay. So I'm just thinking of my parents and who's like,'s like, it's not, nothing's that about it. Like, leave me alone. No, I don't have any problems with it. And you're thinking, oh, there's a gap in how we're seeing this because I see this, you know, my kid, you know,

whatever it is, it's spending so much time on there or I see how it affects their self-esteem or I actually know about some really tricky conversations that, you know, happened on some of these apps that they maybe didn't get caught for, but good of. And it was not nice language. Like, how do you talk to parents about bridging this gap when maybe they feel like, oh, I'm not in the best place

with my teens, so I do get the hand, but there are active problems. So what do I do? Well, what I will say is give it a real chance to work to be super curious about what's working for you because my what I find with teens is if you are earnestly curious and they see that like you really mean it, they are pretty open to saying, actually, yeah, like this isn't what's working, or this is where I worry about it. So I would just say, don't even if you've had trouble with your kid around social media before, like see if this new approach doesn't keep the door open a little bit. But it then gets into questions of like, we still have to regulate

it and we still have to make rules and they're not going to like all of our rules. So especially for your audience, because I think a lot of families who's kids do not yet have it, or are getting near it, is a great time for me to say to your audience, out of the gate, do not let it in their rooms, right? And I, this was a rare moment

where it wasn't advantaged to be a psychologist, parent, having practiced for a while. Neither one of my daughters has ever had technology in their bedrooms. And the only way I was able to pull that off is that's where we started and they knew from the beginning that that was going to be the rule. Even during the daytime. Even during the daytime.

And the reason for that is it actually still undermines your ability to sleep in that space if you've been using technology in that space. And like, sleep is the whole to die on. And so, so what I would say, if your kid does not yet have access to digital technology, start there. And that alone Becky goes so far, goes so far. The other thing I would say for younger families who are in the space of moving into digital technology, at the moment when your kid wants a phone, they want it so bad, right?

They are desperate for it. And you will never be in a better negotiating position than in that moment. And there are kids like when you're there, like, I really need a phone, everybody's got a phone, I really need this, whatever, just got it. You can basically say to them, all right, you can have a phone, you can touch it on the alternate Sundays when the moon is full and they'll be like, that is fine. Just give me the phone. So the most important thing is to start enormously slow and add on as your kid is demonstrating

that they know what they're doing or that they're handling it well. The other thing I will say, so my 12 year old has a phone which is younger than her sister got it. And the reason for that is I wanted her to be able to texture a sister at college, like they needed to have a way, a channel for themselves. The phone she has, which is an iPhone, because it's going to be her phone for a while, has no browser, and it has no social media apps. She texts with her sister, she texts with her friends, and I think that's going to easily get her through sixth grade. Of course, a lot of this is regional. That's where it is in our community. I'm gonna hold out as long as possible

with that being basically a texting machine. So go slow, keep it out of kids' rooms, do all of that, and then the rest gets easier because you've really got some pretty tight rains on it, and you can loosen those rains as kids are demonstrating that they are handling that well. So, so helpful. A couple of kind of final questions for you,

some maybe rapid fire. What do you think a teen would say? It's like the number one thing that parents kind of get wrong about teens. I love that question. I would say the number one thing, like it's hard, because like I really,

if there's so much you could say, but the number one thing, like it's hard, because like I really, if there's so much, you could say, but the number one thing, they like us and they want us around. They like our company even. What they don't like is our agendas. And so what I would say is, teenagers want to be with and near us. They like that a lot less when every interaction is, where are you with your homework, what's

going on with that teacher, show me where things are with your college applications, why aren't you working out hard, you know, the triads are coming. That's where they have a harder time with us. But to be just quiet present, I wrote a piece years ago about being a potted plant parent, right? Like they just want you there. And I think it's easy for adults to not know this because it can feel very rejecting to have a teenager. But a genderless presence man, that is what they're really looking for. I love that. Agendaless presence. That is so good.

Okay, two more questions. Biggest gap between the reality of adolescence as you've lived through it, and your kind of clinical understanding of adolescence before you were in it. Oh man, they complained so much. I think that that was, that was so part. Like, you know, when you're a clinician,

you get doses and they're focused on a particular problem that is usually like for lack of a better word or real problem. As a mom, I just could not believe starting by about third or fourth grade, that like 90% of what happens after school is like the rundown of indignities and injuries and insults. And that overwhelmingly just be like, all of my instincts works beautifully. It's all they need. But I didn't expect the volume of detailed accounting of the day and its downsides. And also, Becky, and I think it's really important for us to say, like, how much I don't like

it. It's actually very unpleasant because I'm very tired at that point in the day. And the reason I want to say that is I feel like parents we need to know that other parents too are in their homes. Feeling very mad in the mood to hear the full grousing and the you know the full catalog of the days and justices. But that doesn't mean that kids don't get to do it. And that doesn't mean it's not a beautifully working system for them to dump all their emotional garbage of the day and fresco on me and that's

saying, I'm so sorry. Yeah. Oh, so deshaming. Okay. Something a parent listening can do today. That's going to make a difference in their relationship, even if their kid doesn't gratify the moment and say, thank you, mom, thank you, dad. That was so bonding. What's something simple a parent could do today with their teen? I think if you're raising a teenager, you've got to take really good care of yourself. And I also think you need other sources of gratification. So, you know, my 12-year-olds still think some funny wants to go to the grocery store with me, like we have a blast. I am very well aware that I am like on the clock, I'm stretching

it already. And if all things go as they typically and healthily should, within the next six months, I am not going to be her favorite playmate. And I feel really grateful that I have a lot of other sources of activity, a lot of other sources of feeling valued and useful in the world, because you're going to need that. I mean, by 13 or 14, your kid is not going to be the one who makes you feel good about yourself. That is so provocative and deep and so, so good for our kids early years, often unconsciously. We can fill up on good feelings in ourselves through the way they need us, through the way they depend on us, through the way they lean into us when they're upset. And it can really be like, I feel very purposeful.

I feel very impactful. This lights me up inside. Look, look at this job I'm doing. There's like evidence. And that's really, I think, really helpful to think about when you have a teen, definitely really helpful to think about also before you have a teen of, okay, no judgment. What percentage of my good feelings about myself come from my kids?

Just like, where am I on percentage? And if that's not a percentage that I think is good for me or will continue to work for me, what else could give me good feelings? What else do I like? And that's so important for a parent no matter how old your kid is, but I love what you're saying Lisa, like when your kid is a teen, one of the best things you can do, yeah, for you, but for your relationship with them is really leaning into more of figuring out those things for yourself. Probably helps you tolerate when they're melting down and being rude because you're not looking to them to kind of fill you up in that moment. Oh, so good.

Thanks for listening. To share a story or ask me a question, go to goodinside.com slash podcast. You could also write me at podcastatgoodinside.com. Parenting is the hardest and most important job in the world. Parenting is the hardest and most important job in the world. And parents deserve resources and support so they feel empowered, confident, and connected. I'm so excited to share Good Inside Membership. The first platform that brings together content and experts you trust with a global community of like-valued parents. It's totally game-changing. Good Inside with Dr. Becky is produced by Jesse Baker and Eric Newsom at Magnificent Noise. Our production staff includes Sabrina Farhi, Julia Nat and Kristen Muller.

I would also like to thank Eric Kabelski, Mary Panico, Ashley Valensweila and the rest of the good inside team. And one last thing before I let you go. Let's end by placing our hands on our hearts and reminding ourselves, even as I struggle and even as I have a hard time on the outside. I remain good inside.