Good Life Project - Abby Wambach | World-class Athlete to Wolfpack Activist.

Episode Date: April 2, 2019

Abby Wambach’s (http://abbywambach.com/) name is synonymous with soccer. A two-time Olympic gold medalist, FIFA World Cup Champion, and the highest all-time goal scorer ever, she is an icon. But, that's not the whole story. Not by a long shot.Her new book, Wolfpack, (https://amzn.to/2F6gxNx) and the movement and company she’s launched along with it, is a reclamation. It's a call to agency and community.We explore this powerful journey, along with many of the deeper motivations, struggles, moments of awakening, defining stories and so much more in today’s powerful conversation.-------------Have you discovered your Sparketype yet? Take the Sparketype Assessment™ now. IT’S FREE (https://sparketype.com/) and takes about 7-minutes to complete. At a minimum, it’ll open your eyes in a big way. It also just might change your life.If you enjoyed the show, please share it with a friend. Thank you to our super cool brand partners. If you like the show, please support them - they help make the podcast possible. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

When you hear the name Abby Wambach, pretty much save about your thinking soccer. A two-time Olympic gold medalist, FIFA World Cup champion, hyped by a long shot. Retiring in 2015 at the age of 35, she found herself for the first time, really since she was a very young child, without a defining identity or path forward. And the year that followed, in many ways, brought her to her knees. But it also delivered her into her next, even more powerful act in life. She found the love of her life, Glennon Doyle, who has also been a previous guest on the show,

and decided to redirect that same fierce effort that led her to be a world-class athlete toward becoming an activist for equality and inclusion and a champion for women. In her new book, Wolfpack, and actually the movement and the company she's launched with it, it is, in every sense of the word, a reclamation, a call to agency deeper motivations, the struggles, the darkness, the lightness, the moments of awakening, and so much more in today's conversation. So excited to share it with you. I'm Jonathan Fields, and this is Good Life Project. The Apple Watch Series 10 is here. It has the biggest display ever. It's also the thinnest Apple Watch ever, making it even more comfortable on your wrist,

whether you're running, swimming, or sleeping. And it's the fastest-charging Apple Watch, getting you 8 hours of charge in just 15 minutes. The Apple Watch Series X. Available for the first time in glossy jet black aluminum. Compared to previous generations, iPhone XS or later required. Charge time and actual results will vary. Mayday, mayday. We've been compromised.

The pilot's a hitman. I knew you were going to be fun. January 24th. Tell me how to fly this thing. Mark Wahlberg. You know what the difference between me and you is? You're going to die.. January 24th. Tell me how to fly this thing. Mark Wahlberg. You know what the difference between me and you is? You're going to die. Don't shoot him, we need him.

Y'all need a pilot. Flight Risk. And before we dive into today's conversation, some of you have noticed that the tunage in our podcast has changed. Yes, we've got new music, kind of much more of a chill, kind of groovy, lighthearted, acoustic jam. And there's a pretty fun backstory about where that came from, actually. So that music was being played by someone who's kind of like family to me,

to the Good Life Project, to our community, Christopher Casey Carter. And he's been a part of our community of everything that we're doing for a long time now, been a central part of the camp that we did for five years, a friend, a collaborator. And Casey was actually in town in New York City and he was crashing here. And we were just kind of hanging out and he and I were sitting in the studio one evening and I had these two guitars hanging up there. One of them was a guitar that I spent a month building with my own hands in a small workshop

out in rural Pennsylvania about a year ago, actually. And Casey grabbed the guitar, he's sitting there and he's just kind of noodling with it. Casey is a lifelong musician, creator. He is just musical. He lives musically. He thinks musically. And as he's playing with the guitar, I said to him, hey, you know, I've wanted to actually

create something much more personal to our vibe for a while. What do you think of just noodling a little bit here? And wouldn't it be cool if we were able to offer tracks as the backdrop for Good Life Project, the podcast, that was a blend of you sharing your heart, your genius for music through a guitar that I built with my own hands. So he just started playing and we turned on the mics. And within a matter of minutes, what you hear now as our sort of revised theme and transition and fun music, that's the backdrop, the was actually a song that he had written a number of years earlier called Happy Little Life, which is like a full circle moment because indeed, aren't we all trying to live our own happy little life? So it was really awesome the way that it all came together. By the way, Casey Christopher Carter also is stepping into the podcasting world in a pretty big way, airing deep, beautiful, moving conversations with his own podcast. That podcast is called This Epic Life.

And I definitely strongly recommend that you go and give it a listen. Check it out. You will love it. Once you get turned on to those conversations, you're going to stay turned on. So I hope you found that little backstory kind of fun and interesting. All right, dropping us back into our conversation of the day. So while this will air later, we're taping this on International Women's Day. Perfect timing, right? In New York City.

You're headed to the UN to speak after this. Pretty amazing. It's been like an incredible handful of years, really, as sort of the energy and the focus and the conversation has, I feel like it's still just the beginning of shifting. But I feel like you're a part of that too. Well, I am doing my small part and not to be underscored is how many women and men who have come before me and have fought this good fight. And I think that like many women out there would say it takes a village. And for this, this is just one of those causes and moments in time right now that it makes perfect sense. You know, Glenn and I, we say this a lot, the women's

movement and equality and just the uncovering of all of the things that have been happening over the history of humanity, whether it be racism or sexism or genderism or ageism, all of the isms, they're kind of bubbling to the top because social media and technology is allowing people to actually see what's been actually happening for centuries. And my small attempt to try to create a system or a movement in and of itself, you know, I just think that everybody has to do the best that they can. And this is my way. Yeah. And that's everybody has.

I mean, everyone has something that they can do, which is pretty awesome now also. I want to dive a lot deeper into this conversation, but I want to kind of take a step back in time first, because most people hear your name for the first time, what they associate it with is soccer. Of course. But it's really interesting to me because until I actually took a deeper dive into you, immersing myself in the world of Abby, you know, I would have thought somebody who sort of rises to the level of acclaim in one particular domain. It's because from like the moment you're born, it's just this is your obsession. This is your love. This is your passion. It is an absolute, it's the thing you wake up in the morning and can't not do. Your relationship with soccer from the earliest days was much, it's like if you looked up like on Facebook, it would be, it's complicated. It's not so straightforward. Yeah. You know, I think that a lot of successful people in the world, they're passionate, right?

And they are risk takers and they're in search of challenge. And I think that I did have, and even now watching the game, I had a love-hate relationship with it all along because I fought this whole idea of soccer being the only identity I had as a human being. I played it on a high level as a very young child through my teenage years and into my early adulthood and into becoming a full-on adult. I fought against just being a soccer player for a long, long time. And I think that that's just my spirit. It's just, I'm not one thing. I'm many things. And I believe that a lot of people probably struggle with similar things, whether they're world-renowned at something or whether they are trying to write their own story in whatever way that they need to write it. You know, the biggest regret that most people, one of the biggest deathbed regrets,

is living the life for somebody else, not living the life that you wanted to live. And I can totally relate to that. I can totally relate to making sure that I was living the life that I wanted. Because, you know, I was so good as a young player. I knew that it was going to offer me opportunity. I could not have predicted what kind of opportunities in the life that I was able to live. But I also wanted to make sure that I was like a full rounded human being. And I think it's because and, you know, my story is still being written. I think it's because soccer was a part of what I did to allow me the next chapter. Soccer was this beautiful thing that I was able to be a part of.

And I was able to find purpose playing on the national team and representing my country for so many years. I'm fiercely proud of that time. I was able to challenge myself and I was able to push my limits and I was able to grow as a human being and learn about humanity and learn about culture and learn about different countries and people. And honestly, it was all in preparation for this next phase of my life that I'm finding myself in. Soccer kind of gave me this beautiful platform. And, you know, as a privileged person, somebody who has been able to get the seat at the table, somebody who's been able to win medals and win championships for my country, it's now my responsibility with that privilege. Like, what am I going to do now with the platform I've been able to create for myself? And I think all too often women don't take on that kind of responsibility as a way for us to actually move humanity forward in the right ways. Yeah. I mean, and it's amazing the way that you're doing that.

I mean, what's fascinating to me, too, is it granted you this giant permission slip, you know, to step into a bigger stage. Not even a bigger stage, but a different stage. Totally. Many different stages. It granted you choice. But at the same time, underneath it, there was a dark vein running through your entire time in the game that started from the youngest age where you described in the very early days, you wanted to quit over and over and over and over and over.

And part of the reason that you stayed in was, part of it was because you love the game, but there were other reasons that kept you in it, even when you wanted to keep bailing. Yeah. You know, I think that when I, when I think back about that time of my life, you know, I was like a normal kid. Like I, I wanted to hang out with my friends and I couldn't truly grasp the magnitude of the talent that I had. I don't think any young child can emotionally understand what could be at age five, six, seven years old. And I think that over time, I was able to grow more in love with the game because I was able to actually see the fruits of my labor. I was able to reap the rewards of all the time spent because there's millions of young kids that are participating in their sport or craft or hobby or joy that that joy might not ever turn into a career like I was able to have. You know, and even when I was a young kid, there wasn't like no such thing as women's professional soccer or even truly like women's professional sports. You know, my dad actually wanted me to play golf and or tennis because those are the only, you know, there was a path.

Yeah, there was there was a path already laid for those athletes. I just was never a really good individual sport athlete. I always liked the idea of team and camaraderie. I was born in a big family. I'm the youngest of seven kids. So managing other people and dealing with other people and being in a team environment was something that really was exciting. And it was part of what made me who I was. And I think that over time I evolved into a really strong leader because of all the experience that I had. And I think that, you know, because you're good at something, because you're exceptional at something doesn't mean you should do it. Doesn't mean you have to do it. But there was a time I remember my brother, I wanted to go to our summer camp. You know, we would go one week every summer.

It was a sleepaway camp and it was not sports specific. It was just a summer camp that you send your kids to. And there was a soccer tournament or a soccer camp that laid on top of this summer camp I wanted to go to. So I had to choose. And I said, I want to go to Camp Stella Maris. I don't want to go to the soccer camp. And my brother, Andy, my mom was, I think she was kind of putting her foot down and said, you have to go to the soccer camp. And my brother, Andy, my mom was, I think she was kind of putting her foot down and said, you have to go to the soccer camp. And I just said, well, I'm going to quit playing soccer. You know, I'm super stubborn. I'm just like my mom in that way. And my brother, Andy just said, look, you may not love this game now. You actually might hate it

because it takes you away from your family or you don't get to do everything that you want to do. He said, but you've been given a gift and you would be doing me a disservice. Your brother, who hasn't been gifted this natural athletic talent, who hasn't been gifted this super ability, the superpower that you have. And he said it in much different words. I'm just paraphrasing at this point. He said it like in teenage kid brother words. Yeah. He was 13. I was 12 or I was 11. Let's have this philosophical conversation. He basically was like, you can't quit, you know? And I think that that was really important for me to hear from my brother. I would not have heard it if it were from my parents

because he's right, you know? And I wasn't giving soccer a chance. I didn't really, honestly, I didn't really give into the game until the end of my college career, when I saw a path to maybe a professional career, a professional opportunity, instead of doing what a lot of human beings do, where they, they sacrifice, and they kind of blow up their life because they want to prove to everybody that they themselves aren't just one thing. I wanted to make sure I wouldn't look back and regret not trying. And so I just dedicated the next, I mean, what was it, 15 years to trying. And I guess, as they say, the rest is history.

Yeah. I mean, it's interesting too that one conversation stayed with you of the thousands and thousands of conversations I'm sure you had with all your siblings like you said you have a giant family it's interesting to me how there are these just random conversations that for some

reason like decades earlier they stay with you because you meant something yeah Glennon my wife would call them the before and after moments, right? Some of them are conversations. Some of them are calls of diagnosis or death or there are specific moments in history. And that's for sure one of those conversations for me that stayed with me throughout my whole life. Because I think it's really easy, you know, a lot of people don't understand the kind of sacrifice that I was making as a young kid, because I, and this is not like

too much of a sob story. I get that I was able to like make something really amazing of my life. But as a young child, being always on the road and being away from my family and being away from my friends and missing birthdays and missing proms, Like those are really hard. Those are hard sacrifices that I had to make. And at that point, there was no sureness of me going and playing soccer in the way that I did. It was just all for this like dream of that maybe. And so I think that as a kid, you know, we all write our own stories. And yeah, that conversation was important. And I think that, you know, we have to bring light to some of those conversations that kind of redirect us in certain trajectories or even hard times. You know, some of the best things that ever happened

to me in my life were times where I fell flat on my face, were times where I failed. And those are the things that actually are the vertebrae that keeps my spine straight, that keeps me knowing what I'm doing and why I'm doing it. Yeah. I think it's that way for so many of us. It's like when times are good, the charge just goes along. Great. But it's like when you're brought to your knees, okay, so those are the defining moments. Yeah. I mean, all successful people that I know, when they look back on their lives, they look back at the times that they persevered, at the times that they were able to stand up after they had fallen. And those times are the times where they learned the most. They were able to right the ship, so to speak. And they were able to actually find the real meaning of what life is. You know, life

is, I always try to say this, you know, having a good and happy life is hard. You know, it's not accessible to everybody. Otherwise, everybody would have a good and happy life. It's actually sacrifice. It's actually work and effort and passion and a deep belief in yourself and the story that you want to kind of continue to co-create with yourself and your creator, however you define that. Yeah. It's interesting that you use happy in that sentence also, because I think one of the things that so many people I'm talking to, and I'm guessing you too, when we're looking at, okay, so how are we actually defining what it means to live a good life? I feel like so much of, there's been so much focus on happiness.

But what you were just dropping into that too, and it's a huge belief of mine, is it's bigger than that. It's meaning. And meaning often includes, meaning can be derived from suffering and from sacrifice and from darkness. And if that becomes a leading metric, you can go along windows and not be entirely happy, but still be living a really good life. Yeah. I think that that's probably, in our culture, that's probably the biggest fallacy that is sold to the people, that everybody That everybody needs to have a happy life or deserves to have a happy life. Happiness is a result of the body of your work, whether it be your profession or your family life or the way that you interact with people and the world or the things that you draw purpose from, you know, we have to kind of debunk that myth that everybody is afforded happiness. Everybody should be afforded an opportunity to find happiness.

And happiness is the end of the road. It's like on the other side of the finish line. When you work hard and you put yourself in environments that challenge you and that push you, that's the fulfillment that I think people are in search of. I think that we need to switch the word happy with fulfillment. That's what we all truly want is to feel fulfilled. And that's not peaches and cream and everything's perfect. That's just the way that the world works. And the smartest people that I know and the most successful people I know, they're not in search of happiness.

They're just, they're in search of fulfillment. And that takes time and it takes an entire life and a lot of ways to create. Yeah, and it allows you to go out there and feel like you're actually succeeding even when you're not just giddy and jumping up and down. It's like, okay, but I'm engaging with life and maybe that's really, like I'm engaging in a process and I'm getting, maybe it's not the result I wanted, but I'm

getting something back and it's giving me more direction. Maybe it'll help me figure out where there is and maybe it's actually right now. Well, happiness is also fleeting. And this idea that happiness is like a state of being. Yeah, that doesn't exist. It doesn't exist. In the movies it does. Yeah, like we're human beings. Sometimes you wake up and you're exhausted.

Sometimes you have a crap day and you're depressed. Life is about managing the ups and downs. And when you are happy, acknowledge it, be present in it because the next day is going to come and who knows what's going to happen. Creating an existence and a plan and a system for yourself that you can try to control your environment in a way that achieves the successes and goals that you're

trying to get after, that's when happiness rises up. When you have put yourself to work and you've put yourself in a position of vulnerability and put yourself in positions to check off the dreams and objectives you have on your everyday life. Yeah. The Apple Watch Series 10 is here. It has the biggest display ever. It's also the thinnest Apple Watch ever, making it even more comfortable on your wrist, whether you're running, swimming, or sleeping.

And it's the fastest-charging Apple Watch, getting you eight hours of charge in just 15 minutes. The Apple Watch Series 10, available for the first time in glossy jet black aluminum. Compared to previous generations, iPhone XS or later required. Charge time and actual results will vary. It seems like from the earliest days, okay, so you show up and you have this, you have a gift.

So you, and you embrace it, not necessarily voluntarily, but you're in. I eventually did. A combination of internal and external pressure. My curiosity is if a lot of the, quote, motivation to stay in this and to give up all the other fun stuff that a lot of other kids were doing, which came in from the outside in, in the early days, are you aware of a moment or sort of like a period of time when you noticed that that started to switch, that you were showing up because you're just like, hell yeah, like I want doing the things that I needed to do to put me in the positions that I wanted to be in, that I knew that our team needed to be in, of scoring as many goals as I could and helping my team out in every possible way as a leader on the field and off the field. And I just remember feeling like those were some of the best years of my career where it didn't feel quite like a job. At the end of my career, it felt a little bit like a job because there's only so much traveling you can do before you know, my abilities on the field really affected my everyday life, whether it was I was able to pay my mortgage and make money on certain contracts. It's hard for an athlete to learn. That's one of the hardest things that I've been trying to relearn, I think, or just learn in general is why am I doing

something when when you have a purpose, right, that's bigger than yourself, that gives you a lot more leeway to figure out and find that internal motivation. And so you're driven. But as an athlete, I was so externally motivated by fear or peer pressure or desire to be the best that I could possibly be that in my retirement, I mean, just even working out is harder because not only because I don't have my teammates on my side and that social pressure that that's always really good as an accountability, you know, having accountability partners, but just finding out like, why am I doing this? Why do I need my body to move? And really diving deep into my spirit and the connection between my spirit and my body because I've had to redefine what my body is for now. For so long, it was my bread and butter.

It was how I ate. It was how I lived. It was my job. Like I used to say, my body is my temple. I know that sounds so weird, but it was. It was like, and pro sports, there's this non-talked about narcissism because everything is so related to you, right? Like what I put in my body and how I treat my body and how much rest I give my body. Now in my retirement, I'm trying to create this internal motivation, not for winning medals or for scoring goals, but like for being able to walk when I'm 70 and be able to be alive when I'm 80, you know, and trying to figure out like, you know, this invincibility complex that I think a lot of narcissism that athletes possess, it's part of what makes you us great. It was a necessary thing that I needed to have to be able to play at the level that I did. and what your motivations are now moving forward so that you can live a long, healthy, upstanding life

in a totally different capacity because it's like a total departure from what I used to know. You know, not having every little bit of my life revolve around me, my body and my game. Yeah, and also just complete shift in expectations about what your body is here to do. Yeah. It's so weird.

Yeah. I can't imagine. It's so weird. Because we're not that far into retirement. Yeah. Well, I took two years off. My body really needed of any physical activity. I took about a year and a half off. And I got a little bit larger. I got a little bit flabbier. And my body needed that. I needed a complete reset. And I started to run. I'm now a runner, which is a weird thing to actually say because I hate running. I mean, I like having had run. And I like the feeling that I have about myself for completing a task that I know is good for me, I know I need

to do, but I just, I hate every step of it, literally. And it's the weirdest thing because my body, I do know that my body was born, I was created to be an athlete in a lot of ways. And I'm very athletic. I can pretty much play any sport you want. And I could probably kick every guy's ass at most sports. But this whole idea of what my body is for now and redefining what success is, is difficult because I, for so many years, had a definition of success being one thing. Yeah. And it's fascinating that you use the word, so like my body is a temple. On the one hand, it's like you're training, everything's about your body because this is, it's your identity, it's your income, it's your source of adulation. And I mean, to a certain extent, I wonder for you whether sort of based on what

you've shared, what you've written about, it's also for you, your body and the way it performed was a way to make you feel loved. Totally. Well, I think that that started when I came out of the womb. I'm the youngest of seven. And you could imagine the desire for the attention of your mom and dad. It's huge because their attention is split seven ways. And so from a very early age, I put a lot of worth in my lovability and the attention that people were able to give me. I mean, my wife would say this, like, I am such a person that needs affirmation and needs to be acknowledged or seen. Your love language is words of affirmation.

I mean, big time. And I mean, she's so smart that she's like, babe, I saw that you unloaded the dishwasher. That is amazing. And I'm like, yes. And like my brain lights up and every chemical that, you know, every dopamine in my brain gets released and I just feel like I'm on high. So she's using it to her advantage, you know, on a lot of levels. But yeah, my worthiness and my loveability, like my ability to feel love because of my family dynamic, you know, it's been a process for me for sure. And to believe that somebody actually would love me and not like Abby Wambach or Abby Wambach, the soccer player, or even now Abby Wambach, the activist. That's for sure my cross to bear and something that I'm going to probably work on for the rest of my life. Yeah. And I know coming from a family also where certain traditional beliefs, certain religious beliefs, and then you being gay and that relationship with your parents sort of piles

on to everything else at the earliest age, like as soon as it starts to reveal itself. So it's like, but the pressure, I'm like, I'm fascinated by now the pressure that puts on you to then raise the game even more with what you're doing to your body and perform it in even different levels. Yeah. You know, I think a lot about that because I have to always remind myself, and I think we as people have to remind ourselves that we've made a lot of progress over the last 20 years in terms of the way that we view social issues. Right. And our civil liberties and homosexuality and talking about sexism and racism and and and seeing that all that stuff has boiled to the top and we can see it now much clearer. And there's better conversations around these things. And my gayness as a young kid, my knowing of my gayness as a young kid and being set inside of this Catholic church, it for sure created some trauma for me.

And I'm still trying to unlearn some of those messages. Like, for instance, Glenn and I were actually just at one of her events. She speaks at a lot of churches. Glennon's my wife, by the way. I don't know if you guys know her. She's been on your podcast twice. I listened to one of them yesterday. She's amazing. And she's an amazing speaker. And we were speaking at this church and we were backstage and we got into this conversation with the minister. I asked the minister if they were open and affirming of gay folks and they were working on it, right? It's a big congregation. And I just said, you know, I don't have a lot of trust inside of churches. I don't really like to come to churches. And she asked me why. And I said, well, when I was a kid, figuring out that I was gay, I was a gay kid, teenager, you know, you can envision me sitting next to my mom and the priest is up there and God is in this church.

You know, I felt like when I was a kid, I had to decide between God and the church or myself. And I chose myself. So I actually very much had to, I felt like I had to, for my own self-preservation, turn away from church and God. So I became like a raging atheist, right, for a long while in my life, and not until I met Glennon, did I start to really comprehend and try to figure out what that all meant to me as a teenager and the trauma that that instilled inside of me about what it means, what church means and what God means. And Glennon, in her beautiful fashion, she just looked at me and she said, oh, baby, I think you've gotten it mixed up. You think God and church are the same thing and God and religion are the same thing and they aren't.

You thought you were choosing between God and church and yourself. But really what you were deciding was that God was not in church and you chose yourself. So you chose God because God is in each and every one of us. It is not inside the church. Church is an institution. And I just remember sitting there and I just had tears in my eyes because, and this is literally like six months ago, I'm 38 years old. It was such a revelation for me because she was right. And I know all religions are different, but the way that I was brought up, I was brought up with a fearing God. I was afraid to do things wrong because I feared this hell thing and I fear sinning. And so the Catholic guilt just has stirred

inside of me. And so as a young kid, the only thing I knew is, okay, I'm just not going to do that. I'm going to go over here and be this atheist, non-believer, because I can't do that. I can't, over there, it doesn't fit. And I think that after meeting Glennon and talking through a lot of this stuff with her and having this conversation, it was huge. It was huge for me to redefine what religion and God and my role in both of those things are and how they play in my life now. Yeah. And also to a certain extent, I mean, your relationship with your mom through her association with both God and church. Yeah. And I think that this is a really important point that you make. My mom, she wholeheartedly still believes in the Catholic faith and the

Catholic church. And though she loves me, I know she loves me. And I know she is, you know, one of my biggest supporters and fans. And she is so proud of the work that I've been able to do. You know, this falls in direct conflict, like this whole idea of her daughter being gay falls in direct conflict with her belief system. But her daughter being gay falls in direct conflict with her belief system. But I have to also remember that she grew up in a completely different time and I can't hold her hostage or accountable on a lot of levels based on the things that she was born with, that she learned as a young child. Can I push her and try to challenge her on some of those belief systems? Of course.

But the very thing that I was asking for from my mom, which is acceptance, she's actually in a weird, twisted way asking for the same thing, that she wants me to accept her for who she is. So all of this is to be said and all of this is to be understood that it's not me that she doesn't love she is so identified in herself as a catholic woman that any kind of shaking of that ground underneath her feet is a direct is a direct line into who she thinks she is and that would just it would crack her foundation on a level that she's not willing to attempt to try to go down. And I have to respect that. I don't have to agree with it. I have to respect it because I am not my mother. And I did not walk in her shoes. And I did not grow up believing the things that she believes. And I think that I want to give her the same respect and honor that I myself want in return. And that's, you know, how she responds to that. That's on her.

That's not on me. Yeah, really powerful. It was interesting also, you know, along the way, there's another thing that was happening, which is and you've been incredibly transparent about this which you so you had a memoir come out in 2016 yes right like the fall of 2016 really beautiful incredibly transparent so this was right after you literally retired yes and you're like okay so let me share everybody knows me as this the of the-star, the GOAT, the greatest of all time. And yes, that is a part of who you are and what you have done on the planet. And at the same time, there was a whole other side that follow you. And part of it also was a reliance on various forms of

self-medicating to get through. And part of it was getting through what we've just been talking about. There's a lot of emotional stuff and psychological stuff and familiar stuff we all like deal with. Part of it though is, I mean, just physically, the game is so brutal and so demanding. I mean, the injuries that you've endured and sustained. And I think if you're not in the world of high-level athletics, I think a lot of times people don't have any true sense of how brutal sport at that level, especially the way you played, which was very aggressive, very strong, is on your body, how devastating it can be and what people will sometimes turn to just to get through a day. Yeah. Well, I think that all of what you just said is completely true.

And what people don't realize is that as a pro athlete, it's your job to live and try to train in what we call our red zone for our heart rates, right? So you are training above your lactic acid threshold, which means your body actually starts to develop lactic acid above a certain heart rate because your body is now on overload. And parts of our training, it's HIIT training, interval training, it's to get our bodies in that top zone where your body is basically shutting itself down because it's too much. And that's where we lived in a lot of parts of our training. So you are constantly dealing with not just soreness, but trying to grow muscle, trying to heal from certain injuries. You know, athletes are never, pro athletes are never at 100 percent, ever. You know, NBA basketball players and WNBA basketball players play tons of games. Soccer season is like 10 and a half months long out of the entire year. So your body doesn't ever really

truly get a rest because you've got six weeks of time off of a quote unquote off season. And in that six weeks, you might take two weeks off from doing any training, but then the next four weeks is to prepare you for the preseason of the next year. So having said all that, it was a very rare time where I felt completely healthy. And as my career went on, you tack on more injuries, you tack on bigger injuries. It's just the nature of like science, like the more you put your body through wear and tear, the more opportunity you have to sprain an ankle or I broke my leg. And then you actually have to start supplementing, whether it be pain management, prescription medication. And for me, the other side of the coin was I like to drink. It was a way for me to kind of disassociate myself from pro athlete and just be the normal person, the quote unquote normal person. And after years and years of

developing that kind of lifestyle, it becomes, like you said, a self-medication and it turns into abuse. And I think that the reason why I wanted to talk about that stuff in my book, because secrets are the thing that kills especially addicts. And I held that part of my life very secret from the outside world, because from the outside, everybody looking in, I was this badass athlete who led the women's national team to many medals and championships. I was a leader and a fighter for women's rights, et cetera. But I felt like if I really wanted to truly transition into a next phase of my life, I needed to do it completely openly.

And it was part of my process of healing and getting sober. I knew that I needed to be completely honest because I didn't want to not tell the truth about what really went on, especially that part of my life. I was transitioning from playing to not playing. And I was going through a lot of psychological turmoil and physical turmoil. And my first marriage was falling apart and I was retiring. So I didn't

know who I was going to be and what I was going to do and how I was going to make money. Because as many people know, women athletes, they don't make enough money in their career to be able to not have to have another career. And I think that all of that kind of came to a head. I got the DUI and that kind of woke me up instantly, which at the time was the worst thing that ever happened to me. But looking back, it was the most necessary thing that I needed to wake up to what was really going on and to actually deal with the issues in real time, in the real world, sober. So I'm really proud of that. That's actually one of the things in my life that I'm most proud of is being able to see what my life was to dismantle the shame that I built up over time. Because when you're using and you're abusing alcohol or drugs or whatever your addiction might be, there's so much shame that you build up

year after year of this kind of use. And when you do it in quiet and secret, it makes it worse. Yeah. I mean, especially when you're a global role model for being this person. And you know that you have millions of people looking to you as like, this is how to live. Yeah. I mean, especially when you're a global role model for being this person. Yeah. And you know that you have like millions of people looking to you as like, this is how to live. Yeah. And you know that inside there's a big piece of the story that's not being told. Right. But it's like these three things, like within a 12-month window, 2015, you retire.

Then this book comes out, which just says, okay, I'm going to lay it bare. And at the same time, like you mentioned, you get pulled over for DUI. And it's like these three things like, okay, so we're just going to take your knees out from under you. And to a certain extent, you took out your knees from under yourself. And then there was that one other thing. But fundamentally, that was your choice too, even though you didn't know it was a choice you were making at the time. I was astonished and am astonished at the integrity that you brought to that whole moment. Yeah, that was a really tough – that was really tough. Having to call my mom from jail and explain to her what happened and having to get really honest with myself about what was happening. I didn't want to be – because I know that I'm a good

person. Like I know that I have really good ideas and intentions and I try to do my very best. And, you know, addiction doesn't discriminate. It doesn't single one sect of people out more than another. I found myself in a place where I needed help. And I'm a pretty powerful person. So I think that I, on some way, on some level, created this thing that forced me to truly consider what was going on. It was very embarrassing. I was all over the news for a long while. And I had to actually, interestingly enough, I had scheduled this like 10 date speaking tour to go to the colleges around the U.S. Like it was happening like four days after this DUI. And I just remember feeling like, OK, in order for me to actually get through this, I didn't know at that time I was going to stay sober for my whole life.

I just wanted to be like truly honest about it and not do what a lot of other people that I saw do where they just, they deny it and, you know, they plead not guilty and yada, yada, yada. I just wanted to raise my hand and be like, I screwed up and I'm going to be better. And I promise you, you know, and I think that a lot of people, they found that really fascinating. They found that really brave and uncommon. Right. Because nowadays people try to hide parts of themselves. And I just think that that would I know I know in my bones that that would have made me go deeper into some sort of hiding or depression. And it would have just exacerbated the kind of addiction that I was dealing with. And, you know, a month later, I met Glennon. So Oprah talks about life gives you whispers. And if you don't hear the whispers, life will throw a brick in your face. And I think that that is so important because my life was giving me the whispers. I just wasn't listening. I didn't want to listen. And that is essentially, that's like being at the grips of addiction. So I got the brick in my face and I woke up and my life has been completely different. Living sober and finding the love of my life who also lives a sober life. That was a really hard thing for me because

before I met Glennon, one of my biggest fears was how am I ever going to live in the life that I have had created? I had a lot of friends around me and going out and having fun with them was part of my life. And it was part of the lifestyle that I was living and going around the world and meeting all these famous people and going and speaking and everybody wants to buy me a drink, you know, like it was hard for me to envision a sober life. And so that's why when I met Glennon, you know, she approaches this stuff with shamelessness, which I really needed. I needed somebody in my life that could point me in kind of a different direction. And I've just been on that

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So this is where we intersect a little bit also because, um, so it's two and a half years ago i guess glenn and i were hanging out in this very studio and um having just a great conversation and at some point you know like during it i was like so what's going on with you now like because she had just written this book it's out love where it's a huge book and it tells the story of essentially you know just all the the drama and trauma of her previous marriage and her family and how she navigated it. And then right around that time, I think she had also shared after the book published that she and her ex had separated. Yeah. Amicably and still very much in a family.

And I said to her, I was like, so like, what are you going on? And she gets this twinkle in her eye, as I'm sure you've seen a billion times now. I have it too. I'm blushing so hard right now. A smile. And she's like, yeah, I don't remember her exact words. You guys can actually listen to the previous episode. She's like, yeah, you know, I have another relationship going on in my life now, but I'm not ready to talk about it.

Like, I want to keep this just for me. Yeah. That was you. Yep. It was me. I actually listened to that podcast yesterday because I just wanted to get a sense of you and your time. And I remember at the time I listened to that podcast over and over again because it was like the first validation that I had externally

out into the world that like, even though she didn't name names, like that I existed for her in her professional space. And the irony of that conversation that you were having was that she wanted to keep it for herself, especially then because it was so new. But this is a conversation we have constantly. Like, you know, what you give to the public, you give away. And it could on some level diminish that connection between one-on-one person or one parent and child. So we're very conscious and private about the things that are really meaningful to us. Now, this is a harder conversation to have with her on some level because she's an artist. And part of her art is showing real-life stuff that goes on, the good and the bad, and being able to put that out in an

artistic way, in a beautiful way, in a storytelling way that doesn't expose what's happening in our marriage or in our family life, but it's an offering out into the world that can help other people heal whatever is going on in their world. So it's a balance. It's finding that balance is a consistent conversation with us. And it is not black and white. It is not, it is not, we are never going to talk about our family because I actually do know, I mean, Glennon saved my life in a lot of ways, not just because we fell in love, but the person that she is. And one of the things that I love about her the most is how fearless she is in her truth telling and how it's not just about telling truth for telling

truth's sake. It's about art and it's about making sure that the people out there know that they're not alone. And for me, that saved my life and saves my life on a daily basis. You know, I mean, she practices all of her speeches with me at home in short bursts. Like, what do you think about this idea? What do you think about this? And, you know, I'm forever always learning from Glennon. And so I'm just so grateful that when we first met that A, I was sober because I would have missed her. We would have missed each other. And B, I'm just so grateful that she has the relationship and the community with the people that she adores and loves and is serving because I learned so much from her on every single day. Yeah. And Glennon didn't come

alone into the relationship either. It's like one of the things I know has always been important to you is being a mom, is being a parent, is being like having kids. And it's interesting, you know, like Glennon has kids from with her husband, but it seems like you have just stepped in. Like it's like the way that it sounds like everybody talks about it. It's like there are three parents involved now. Yeah. Like you've just stepped in. When you talk about them, you don't talk about them as my stepkids. No. You say my kids. Yeah. Well, first of all, I just think stepkid feels, for me and our family, it just doesn't

feel true enough. I know many people call their kids stepchildren, and I know many children call their stepparent a stepparent. But it didn't ring as true to me. And the experience I knew that I wanted to have and the way that I wanted to create the environment of us as a big, modern, beautiful, blended family. Now, having said that, I have to give credit where credit is due. Craig was such an integral part. Our children's parents, both Glennon and Craig, they were such an integral part in the way that they raised these children and the way that they accepted me. I mean, Craig, from the beginning, told his children that he loved me and he wanted me to be a part of their family. He gave them permission to love me.

And he did it in many different ways. He didn't have to say, you have permission to love Abby. Like, he did it in the way that he treated me. He did it in the way that we interacted. He did it in the way that he talked about me when I wasn't around. And I think that that is an art that is lost on so many families. And I understand that not every family is created equal. And I understand that every divorce is different. I went through it and I went

through a different kind of divorce than Craig and Glennon went through. But when you actually say out loud that your children's happiness and their care and their childhood is the most important thing to you and you act differently in the divorce or in the way that you try to co-parent with your ex-spouse, that speaks volumes, right? When you say one thing and do another, for me, that speaks volumes. And so I learn every day from Craig and Glennon about selflessness, you know, and it's not always easy. I'm not trying to paint the most perfect picture here, but we try as a family to work really hard on as parents in our relationships, because we know that that's going to directly affect our children. And I think that children need to be parented in different ways because every child is different. And so the way that I do with Chase

and the way that I do with Tish and Emma, it's different. And I have cultivated a relationship with each of them in different ways. But I can't underscore enough how beautiful I feel and how seen I feel. I mean, you know, when you're co-parenting with two other people, there's a lot that can go wrong. But I think we always intend and try to come back to what is going to be best for the kids. So, you know, we try to take a family trip every single year all together, right? Craig, myself, and Glennon, and the three children. Because think about it from the kid's perspective. If you don't try to do that, then your child or your children are always missing one. They're always missing their other half, you know? And I get that it's not easy,

and I understand that it's complicated across all different kinds of relationships and marriages. You know, and so we try to bring their grant. My parents, you know, are involved in our children's lives. And, you know, love is love. And we want to make sure that the kids have the best kind of situation. Because for so many years, you know, Glennon, she said, I will never get divorced. I will never put my children through that. And as Carl Jung said, the biggest thing that our children, and I'm paraphrasing here, the biggest thing our children learn from us is the unlived

life of their parent. And I think that that is really essential. And I think that that really spoke to Glennon on a lot of levels, which put her in a position to be okay with this kind of idea of divorce, because divorce doesn't have to be bad. It just doesn't have to be. And I think on a daily basis, the way that Craig and Glennon and I cultivate our relationship is the belief that that statement is true, is that divorce can be good. It takes time and it takes work and it takes patience and it takes really creating the best environment for your child. So yeah, it's the greatest adventure I've ever been on. Yeah. There's a funny moment where it's almost like this is the moment that Demar's like you coming full circle in your identity when you're coaching. Was it Tish's team?

Yeah. Yeah. Can you tell that story? It's so great. We found ourselves in, you know, this is Tish's team, my first year in the family. And Tish was playing on rec league soccer. So they're playing like one practice a week and one game a week. So myself

and Craig decided we were going to co-coach this team together. So when we were on duty with the kids, I would coach the team. And when Craig was on duty, he would coach the team. And Craig played soccer in college. So he's actually a very good soccer player. And we found ourselves somehow in the championship game. And I was doing a warm-up drill with the girls. And I think I had mentioned, oh, well, when I retired. And one of these girls, she just looked up at me and she said, oh, what did you retire from? And I was like, soccer. She's like, oh, cool.

What team did you play on? And I just said, the United States of America. You know, kind of perturbed that this child, I'm like having this realization that they had no idea who I was. And she just looked up at me, blank stare, and she just said, oh, so does that mean you know who Alex Morgan is? And I was like, kid, you have no idea, do you? And so that moment was just so beautiful and perfect. And I mean, if that's not parenting, I don't know what is. Yeah. It's sort of like full circle on every level. As we sit here today, we're in New York

City. When you head out from here, you're heading to the UN to give a talk. Not too long ago, last year, I guess it was, you give a commencement speech at Barnard, which is literally just a few blocks from here as well. And it seemed like that set in motion. So you have a really cool new book out, which I guess is an expanded version really of that talk called Wolfpack. It seems like that was in your transition, you're three and a half years retired. You're figuring out, okay, who am I? What do I stand for? What is my work in the world moving forward now? It seemed like that talk and the idea behind it was this flag in the ground for you.

Yeah. I think that's a really good way of saying it because cultivating this speech, I knew it was going to be really important for some reason. I just had a feeling that not that I felt like my story or my message was important for other people to hear. It's just that at the time, everything was bubbling, like the 2016 election was happening and sexism was running rampant and racism. And it was just like, things were just like, I thought we had gotten past that. Right. And, and here we are, and we're having these really hard times. It was scary. It was kind of scary to be a woman. And I, I was trying to imagine being a graduate sitting in the seats and figuring out what am I going to do in this world?

This world feels really scary right now. And I think the flag in the ground, because over time, there have been so many civil rights movements. There's been women's, the suffrage movement, women's movements, civil rights movements. There's been a lot of these things that have happened. And what I know is that there's this uproar, there's a consciousness, an awakening by people. And then slowly but surely people fall back asleep. And I think that my flag in the ground was like, we need to wake up and stay awake. And so in the speech, I rolled out like four rules, four ideas, four philosophies of how what it is like these these old ways of of existing as a woman in the world. And then kind of offering a new way, a new path, a new existence that we can dream of, that we can in the everyday life that every one of us lives, that we can put into action. Because too often, and this is not to diminish any of the activists out there and the work that they do, because it's essential. I just think that too often,

there isn't like a solution. There isn't a manual to help us and especially women everywhere on an everyday basis sort through some of the misogyny and sexism that we deal with. And quite frankly, a lot of women don't even feel or see that it's happening. to women and waking some women up and giving them the language to be able to solve for some of the problems that they're feeling, some of the sexism that they're feeling in their own everyday life. And so, I mean, really, it's kind of a game plan, like a playbook that I'm trying to hand to women everywhere about, hey, here's what I've experienced and here's some solutions to the problems that I've experienced in my life. And quite frankly, that all women experience on a daily basis. So yeah, that's my flag. I'm excited. Comes out April 9th. Yeah. The word wolf pack, it's a powerful word. Yeah. What drew me to the word wolf pack is this idea, first of all, that it's masculine, right?

And the interesting part is that it's neither – should be neither defined masculine nor feminine, but it has this masculine connotation. And I actually saw this TED Talk years ago about, you know, wolves changing the river – changing the rivers. And I write about it in the book. I talked about it in the book. I talked about it in the speech. And essentially in 1995, wolves were reintroduced to Yellowstone National Park because the ecosystem was failing. And what originally these wolves were kind of feared to be a threat to the system actually ended up being this ecosystem salvation. And vegetation started to rise because the wolves were able to hunt the deer that were eating away the vegetation that were eroding the riverbanks and that were collapsing the

riverbanks so the river stopped running. I mean, I don't know if there's a better metaphor for what women are in the world right now and how we can impart ourselves and embrace and unleash this power that we've all been born with. But year after year, message after message, that power has been tamped down in women and has been, you know, it's been scary. It's, you know, being a woman is not an easy affair. It's a journey. And I just want women everywhere to know that there is power in all of us. And having a Wolfpack and finding your Wolfpack, for me, that was a way to find my power. That was a way to find my voice. That was a way to find my purpose. And so this hopefully will be a similar movement, a similar idea that women can take and embody and create their own Wolfpack wherever you are. I'm very proud of this book. And I think that it's important that leaders in the world who have a platform aren't just talking about what the problems are. We have to find solutions. And as a leader, as a leader of women, as a leader of my national team, as a leader of a movement, it's my job to come up with some of these solutions and put them out in a way that is in art and through storytelling. Yeah, so I hope people like it. Yeah. It's a powerful call to, it's a reclamation. It's a call to agency.

It's a call to community. Yeah. All wrapped up in one. Dang, I'm going to write that down. That's good. That's real good. I'm going to say that at the UN later today. As my old friend, Jonathan Fields.

Yes, exactly. Although, just know this, I very rarely cite anybody. I just take it all on my own. Just take it. on my own. Just take it. It's all good. I think the only person I do cite is Oprah because I feel like she's probably said all of this stuff and taken it on, you know?

Totally. So this really feels like it's so, isn't this weird? You're 39 or 40 now? I'm 38. 38. Okay. I turned, I think I turned 39 at the end of June. Let's leave behind the bizarre nature of somebody saying that at the age of 35,

you retired and now this is the next major stage of your life. And now you're launching into it. You're doing incredible things in the world. You and Glennon together gathered with also some other foundations and organizations who are doing super powerful work in the world. When you now look out ahead at what you feel compelled to do, where does hope guide you? And are you afraid of anything? That's really, really important. Where does hope guide you? I think that as I have evolved as a person, I know it's so weird. I retired at 35. And thinking about my career from like a

20-20 vision lens, the thing that guided me was a sense of purpose. And I don't know what the purpose was, truthfully. Like, I don't think that we can define, truly define our purpose. It's like kind of a pie in the sky feeling. It's like a knowing. Some people have purpose for God, for social change. And when I retired, I kept saying, I want to change the world, right? And I think that recreating a sense of purpose, the way that I did that was figuring out what really truly broke my heart. And then putting that heartbreak into action, it takes away despair and it gives you a purpose. And also when you actually start putting into action and trying to solve for what breaks your heart, you find your people, you find your wolf pack.

And so I think that it took a long time for me to figure out what I wanted to do next, right? I didn't want to write a book. I wanted to talk to the graduating class of Barnard College, right? I didn't want to write a book. I wanted to talk to the graduating class of Barnard College, right? And because of that, it went viral. And publishing houses, they were like, this is an amazing gift graduation call to action book. And so it's like, okay, let's do that. And over the last 12 months, I've been internally trying to figure out what my bigger purpose is. And this book falls right in line with what my dream of, quote unquote, changing the world. I've also created a company called Wolfpack Endeavor that goes into the

corporate world and embeds itself into and creates women's programs while championing elite mindset and teammate mindset into the women of the corporate world so that they feel that connection and that wolf pack while teaching them the philosophies that I learned throughout the years of playing on the national team. So mission and purpose is important. And I figured that out, that that was the thing that allowed me to play at such a high level. I mean, our national team, I believe that we have, all of us individually have this

relentless pursuit of excellence. And that just doesn't go away, right? Like when you retire, that doesn't go away. You just have to actually figure out what you want to focus that relentless pursuit of excellence on. So me, my work in pay equity and women, and I believe that the corporate world, I know that it feels very kind of cold and empty to a lot of people, I actually feel like it sets so much of our culture, corporations, and what goes out and how the culture is seen and embodied by human beings

everywhere. So that's why I'm kind of focusing a lot of my attention right now in the corporate spaces and trying to solve for what a lot of these corporations are having problems, finding women at higher ranking positions and offering more women seats at the table. Like I said, leaders are about solutions. Of course, leaders have to figure out what the problems are, but they also have to figure out what the solutions are. That's what this book is.

And that is what my mission is for the rest of my life, is to make sure that I leave this privilege to get into certain rooms and to get have equality. We need to have not just women. We need to also have men on board with this idea that human beings are equal and we should be treated equally. And women especially, you know, what women want is good. Like if you give something to a woman, what she does with what you've just given her will actually help the people around her. I mean, science proves that. When women are given microloans in third world countries, what women do with those microloans is actually trying to stabilize what's going on in those communities. And that happens in our world, first world, right? We have to give women more leadership positions because what women want is good.

And the trickle down effect will hopefully echo and try to right all of the wrongs that we're feeling that's happening on in the world. Mm hmm. So powerful. Yeah, it's interesting. I mean, as you're talking, there's a stat popped into my head. I heard there's a book that came out. I'm blanking on the guy's name, one of the leading climate change sort of proponents. He said the single biggest thing that we can do to rapidly impact climate change is educate women and girls. Yes. And I think a lot of us don't draw so many of the lines between that and the way it would impact nearly every part of the world, of the planet, of the environment, of society, of family, the relationships between people. And I'm glad that so many others and you among them are out there shining more light on it. Yeah.

I mean, it's honestly my pleasure. I truly love what I do. I love the challenge of it because it's heady. It's a very hard problem that we're all trying to figure out solutions for. We're all trying to solve for. And even when you kind of read that stat, you know, I think that there are a lot of, especially women out there that just feel like, oh, what am I going to be able to do? Like, that feels so, so big that I can't, nothing I can do in my little world or my little space or my little community, nothing I can do will help that. And so my, the other part of the reason why I

wrote this book is because we have to be aware. I don't think a lot of women are even aware of the misogyny and the sexism that they experience. We just take it and we don't even know that it's even happening. So even if you don't want to put any of the solutions that I come up with in this book into your everyday life, being aware and being able to like witness and see some of that sexism, that is what this book is also about, because some some women might not be ready. Some women might not want to change their life. Some women might not want to, quote unquote, ruffle feathers or or become an activist. But like the reality is, is we actually in order to make those actual true mature decisions, you still have to know what's going on and why it's going on. You know, I am always trying to check myself. I mean,

for instance, a couple of days ago, my agent texted me and he said, I'm trying to figure out college tours for Chase. And he texted me, he's like, this professor texted back, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I wrote him back and I was like, oh, what is his, what, what, what is his name? And he wrote back, he said, well, actually it's a woman, you sexist jerk. And again, my agent's a dude, right? So anytime he can call like the, the female, the feminist activist on something like that. It's like a joy for him, which is great. We have that amazing relationship. But that's the truth. I'm literally out in the world. I'm speaking at the UN about women's rights and women's equality today. And I myself make the same mistake because I have bias. We all have bias. We are all born and raised and we've

all been swallowing these toxic messages about what it means to be a woman and what it means to be a man. That doesn't mean that I'm free of my own sense of what it means to be a man and what it means to be a woman and who should have certain jobs. What I will say, though, is that the next step is being able to have those conversations, being able to call each other out in a loving way that is eye-opening and teachable, approaching those hard situations, whether it's sexism or ageism, whatever kind of ism we're talking about. I really think that the way forward is approaching those situations with curiosity instead of judgment. Because, you know, I think that there, and of course, there are egregious situations where you have to meet aggression with aggression because there are non-negotiables that we as people have to

create in the way that we live. But I think that when it relates to some of the insidious things that happen, a lot of people don't even know they're doing it. A lot of people don't even understand or know why they feel the way that they feel. That's what the speech was for me. I figured out why I knew what I knew. And once I figured that out, that has helped me kind of uncover my own bias that I have of the world and of people of the world. Yeah. This feels like a good place for us to come full circle as well. So if I offer out the phrase to live a good life, what comes up? To live a good life, what comes up? Well, I feel that this answer would have been different

back in my career as a soccer player. Now as a parent, things really rapidly change. And I understand that not everybody is a parent, but to put another human being through life and to watch another person go through life and try to mold and model, you know, you're modeling for your kids and you're trying to like create environments so that they can figure out who they are. It's terrifying because I sometimes have like these existential moments where I look at them and I'm like, oh my God, they're going to be a human one day, like an adult. They're going to do their own thing. And like we will have no control.

Right. And the truth is we don't have control now. We're just trying to like give them bumpers on the sides of their lives so that they don't fall off and they don't come crashing down. It's essential for all kids to fail. It's essential for all kids to fall down and learn from their mistakes. But it's our job as parents to always be the one there offering the hand to help them get up or to say, hey, look, you can get up on your own. Like you're going to be okay. Like you're a person and you're going to make mistakes and things happen. To live a good life is to treat yourself with respect in all the ways. That means not taking life too seriously.

That means finding joy. I'm a big joy person. That means working hard and doing what you need to do so that when your head hits the pillow at night, you know, you feel good about yourself. Glennon says, instead of deathbed regret, think of life as pillow regret, you know, making sure that every single day you're not regretting anything because over the whole of your life, if you don't have bedtime regret, then you won't have deathbed regret. And so just kind of knowing what really fills you up the most and making sure you try to do those things every day. And where you put your energy and what you believe becomes your life. If you don't put energy into maintaining your health, then your body will deteriorate. If you don't put energy in cultivating

the relationships that you want, then those will deteriorate and they'll go away. That's just like the nature of being human. And I don't think we give ourselves enough space to be human. I think that that's been one of the lessons I've learned the most from my marriage is I'm married to a woman who has suffered in her life with anxiety and depression and allowing her the space to feel. I'm a fixer. I like to fix things and make people happy. And there's just sometimes that there's nothing I can do and it's not my fault. It's not my job. It's not my responsibility. So allowing people to have their own humanity. So for me, a good life is kind of all that. It's all that mixed in and making sure that, you know, I'm trying my best to allow our children to inherit a better world, a better world than I experienced when I was their age. And trying to make the world a little bit better in my own small way.

Thank you. Thanks. Thank you so much for listening. And thanks also to our fantastic sponsors who help make this show possible. You can check them out in the links we have included in today's show notes. And while you're at it, if you've ever asked yourself, what should I do with my life? We have created a really cool online assessment that will help you discover the source code for the work that you're here to do. You can find it at sparkotype.com. That's S-P-A-R-K-E-T-Y-P-E.com. Or just click the link in the show notes. And of course, if you haven't already done so, be sure to click on the subscribe button in your listening

app so you never miss an episode. And then share, share the love. If there's something that you've heard in this episode that you would love to turn into a conversation, share it with people and have that conversation. Because when ideas become conversations that lead to action, that's when real change takes hold. See you next time. It's going to be fun. On January 24th. Tell me how to fly this thing. Mark Wahlberg. You know what the difference between me and you is? You're going to die. Don't shoot him. We need him.

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