Good Life Project - Adam Rippon | Olympic Figure Skater & Media Phenom

Episode Date: October 31, 2019

Olympic figure skater, Adam Rippon, won the world over not only with a medal-winning performance at the 2018 games, but also with his disarmingly honest, unfiltered and funny on-camera presence. Rippo...n is an artist, athlete, and activist who's known for his passionate support for LGBTQ+ rights and the freedom to be oneself. He's been named to the 2018 TIME 100 List of Most Influential People, honored by the Human Rights Campaign, appeared on Ellen, Colbert, and Kimmel, and recently released his memoir Beautiful on the Outside (https://amzn.to/35KuJZ5). Adam's journey, however, has been anything but easy. In today's conversation, we talk about his rough start in skating, what turned it into a passion, and the yearslong struggles that come with trying to be the best in the world. We also explore how he stepped into and decided to share his sexual identity, grappled with perfection, family, expectations and eventually reclaimed control of his life and, in no small part, his happiness.-------------Have you discovered your Sparketype yet? Take the Sparketype Assessmentâ„¢ now. IT’S FREE (https://sparketype.com/) and takes about 7-minutes to complete. At a minimum, it’ll open your eyes in a big way. It also just might change your life.If you enjoyed the show, please share it with a friend. Thank you to our super cool brand partners. If you like the show, please support them - they help make the podcast possible. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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Starting point is 00:00:00 So Olympic figure skater Adam Rippon won the world over, not only with a medal-winning performance at the 2018 Games, but also with his disarmingly honest and unfiltered and really funny on-camera presence, both during the Games and since then. And while he retired from competitive skating immediately after, Adam is really spending a lot of time now focusing on performing on different stages and screens and bringing joy to people in a lot of ways. And what we'll discover is that that is actually a lot of what was underneath the skating world as well for him. Adam is now also focusing on being a voice in support of LGBTQ plus rights and advocating for the freedom to really be oneself, to step into your own identity in the world. He has been named to
Starting point is 00:00:52 the 2018 Time 100 list of most influential people, honored by the human rights campaign, appeared everywhere from Ellen to Colbert and Kimmel, and recently released a great and really funny and moving and deeply personal memoir called Beautiful on the Outside. Adam's journey has been anything but simple and easy. And in today's conversation, we talk about his rough start in skating, what transformed that a couple of years later into a passion that he would devote so much of his life to, and the years-long struggles that come with trying to be the best in the world at something. We also explore how he stepped into and decided to share his sexual identity, how he grapples with perfection, with family and expectations,
Starting point is 00:01:37 and eventually found a way to reclaim control over his life and in no small part, his happiness along the way. So excited to share this conversation with you. I'm Jonathan Fields, and this is Good Life Project. The Apple Watch Series 10 is here. It has the biggest display ever. It's also the thinnest Apple Watch ever, making it even more comfortable on your wrist, whether you're running, swimming, or sleeping. And it's the fastest-charging Apple Watch, getting you eight hours of charge in just 15 minutes.
Starting point is 00:02:17 The Apple Watch Series 10. Available for the first time in glossy jet black aluminum. Compared to previous generations, iPhone Xs are later required. Charge time and glossy jet black aluminum. Compared to previous generations, iPhone XS or later required, charge time and actual results will vary. Mayday, mayday. We've been compromised. The pilot's a hitman.
Starting point is 00:02:33 I knew you were going to be fun. On January 24th. Tell me how to fly this thing. Mark Wahlberg. You know what the difference between me and you is? You're going to die. Don't shoot him, we need him. Y'all need a pilot.
Starting point is 00:02:43 Flight Risk. I was thinking about books that I love. And I'm a sucker for like a great opening line. So I'm thinking, you know, like a Tale of Two Cities. It was the best of time. It was the worst of time. And then I'm like, then I think of that opening line of your book. Which is, say it out loud.
Starting point is 00:03:02 Well, I said like the first time I ever went skating, I fucking hated it. And I, you know, you have to start strong, you know, put your best men first. Right. And it totally set the tone for expectations for the entire rest of the book. Good, good. I'm glad.
Starting point is 00:03:16 That's exactly what I wanted. I think like, you know, when I started doing like press for the book immediately, the first, you know, time we ever did anything, somebody asked like, after I spoke, I spoke at a conference. And then when I got done, some of the buyers were there for like the local bookstores and stuff. And they were like, we were going to put your book in like sports autobiographies, but we think we might put it in comedy now. And for me, I was like i was like i yeah of course i feel like it totally
Starting point is 00:03:45 belongs there rather than like like a sports story but it is a sports story but it is heavily drenched in jokes right but and that also i mean really ties into like the way that you sort of like set this the stage early on as you open with that line, but also the, it's weird to say this, but the writing itself is performative. I mean, it's like, it's, it's, it's like it was written to evoke the same emotional sort of like immersive experience that you get watching a great performance. Well, I hope, you know, whomever's listening right now is being evoked by what we're saying. But I know that like, when I had the idea of like writing this book, that I don't consider myself a writer, but I do consider myself a storyteller. So I would write it and it would just sound like it would look and sound like I had
Starting point is 00:04:37 written it. So I would say each sentence and read everything out loud over and over and over and change each word until it was exactly the way that I would say it out loud. Yeah. So it was a script instead of, you know, like a written book. I thought of it because like, I was like, I'm excited for the audio book part. But if I'm going to read it, I need to make sure that it's in my voice very specifically. Yeah, no, that makes a lot of sense. Let's take a step back in time, because we kind of started, I mean, the idea of being a performer for you, that touches down in the earliest part of your life. I mean, that was really apparent. It was. You know, when I was young, I talk about this, it's one of the stories I wanted to put in, that I had this grand vision that I was going to
Starting point is 00:05:26 put this talent show at my mom's house on our deck. And, you know, I had no idea what my siblings were going to do. I couldn't have given a shit less what their talents were. I was like, but we're having the talent show. So I wanted to drag out our parents' karaoke machine because I knew it was the biggest speaker. And I was going to tap dance. I'd never taken a lesson. I didn't own tap shoes. I didn't know the first thing about tap. But it was just like in my head, I was like, I'm going to rock it in front of the whole neighborhood. And I'm going to be like Fred Astaire. And everybody's going to be like, their jaw's going to be on the floor. You know, it never happened. But like even ever since I was really young, I always like just loved being in front of people and performing. I mean, what was it about it?
Starting point is 00:06:13 What was the feeling that it gave you that you were looking for and maybe not getting outside of like that moment? You know what? I think everyone has their vice and maybe mine was and still is attention. So I was just doing anything for like attention, I think. Yeah. So that first time, the opening line of your book, when you basically share how much you absolutely adored figure skating from the moment you first tried it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. How old were you then? I was probably like five or six, yeah. Right. So like, you know, to set the scene,
Starting point is 00:06:48 it was like this outdoor rink. So it's freezing cold in the, like, you know, in the small town of Pennsylvania. Right, this is Scranton, PA. It is, yeah. And I just thought I was gonna be the bomb.com and I went out and just- You're taking a pattern here.
Starting point is 00:07:05 Yeah, are you, yeah. Could you imagine? I mean, the whole book could have been about me realizing I wasn't good at tap dancing too. So it's like, get ready. There's this is probably a series of stories. You'll hear a pattern. So you end up going out into this field, not enjoying it. What then ends up bringing you back to it? You know, I wasn't super popular in school, but one of the best rules that they had was that if you had a birthday party, everybody had to be invited. So this kind of saved me. I think it got me included in a lot of things that I normally wouldn't be invited to. And one of them was this like skating birthday party. And it was at this newer indoor rink. So there's no wind now. It's not like night. And when you go into the rink, you can't immediately and only smell hot chocolate. So I
Starting point is 00:07:52 wasn't distracted. My focus was fully there. I was a little older and a little bit more coordinated. And I just had a lot of fun. And then I started to try to do different spins and jumps that I had seen on TV. And then after that first time, I went up to my mom and said, can I please go back? Can we come back? And so my mom brought me back and then she brought me back again. And then finally, after I had been back so many times, my mom signed me up for the group lessons as a birthday present for my 10th birthday. And I mean, this was also, so you're young, you're growing up. You're also one of six kids in a family. And for you and for the family, skating was something that you were starting to become attached to. And at the same time, commitment to lessons, commitment to saying,
Starting point is 00:08:44 okay, we're going to start to pay for this. Wasn't the easiest thing. No, it wasn't. And I think when I was young, I didn't really understand the gravity of like what my mom was taking on. I didn't understand the full expense. I just knew that it was really tough and that my mom needed to drive me places a lot of the time. And so in that respect, I tried to show my mom that whenever I had the opportunity to show her that I would do anything to make sure that I could be at the rink, I would do it. So, you know, if that meant waking my brothers and sisters up and getting them dressed for school and making them breakfast and making sure that their homework is all done, I would do it. I had to lie to them a lot because I would wake them up every morning for probably like two years and be like, you're so late for school.
Starting point is 00:09:36 You need to get up right now. It's like 4 a.m. I'd get them up and they'd be ready by like 4.30. Everybody would be like their hair brushed and like everything. So everyone was all ready for school. Lunch is made. And so I'd wake my mom up at like five o'clock in the morning and I'm like, can you please bring me to the rink? And she's like, you know, we can't because I have to wake up everybody and get everybody ready for school. I'm like, oh, they're all ready. They're watching TV downstairs. And I would do that every morning.
Starting point is 00:10:02 Yeah. Tell me about your mom. I mean, my mom is a pretty incredible lady. She's sacrificed a lot. She's helped me really go after the things that I've wanted. We've had our ups and downs, and I wanted to share those in the book because I think they also show the stress that we were both under, but I think it also shows what an incredible parent my mom is because she grew with me and we grew into an adult relationship. And I think it's like a transition everyone goes through with their parents where you feel like they treat you like a child and, you know, you need them to treat you like an adult and you need to be an adult with a parent child and, you know, you need them to treat you like an adult. And you need to be an adult with a parent, not, you know, a 30-year-old with someone telling you what to do. And, you know, when I was in my early 20s, my mom and I had this moment where I just felt like it was really important for me to take on these responsibilities because they felt like so much pressure to me.
Starting point is 00:11:03 I felt like if I was making mistakes in competitions, that I was letting my family down. I was putting my brothers and sisters at a disadvantage. So it just felt like if I made a mistake or if I did something, it needed to be my own problem. And that's when I moved out to California, like on my own, one-way ticket. Yeah. I mean, it's interesting there. When to California on my own, one-way ticket. Yeah. I mean, it's interesting. When you think about figure skating, I think initially from the outside looking in, there's this possibility of saying, well, okay, I mean, if you want to perform, if you want to do it a lot, how expensive could it be?
Starting point is 00:11:40 It's Paris Gates, it's whatever you're paying for the ice rink. But when you make the decision that no, this is actually like, this is my thing, or at least for this moment, for this season, it's my thing. And I want to push it as far as I can. The, the investment of not only time, but money can be astonishing. Yeah. And I think like when you have Olympic aspirations, whatever you do, the price is going to shock you. Like let's go for probably what I would consider maybe the cheapest sport, track, right? You need to just buy sneakers. No, you don't. You need to buy like the nicest pair of shoes that you can get that are custom made. You need to have a coach to correct your technique. You need to sometimes rent out the track. Like there's so many other little things there. And in skating, you know, it's, you need the skates, you need the equipment, the skates, you know, when you're starting out, you don't have a sponsor. So they run about $500 for the boots and $500 for the blades. So there's a thousand. You're working with a coach
Starting point is 00:12:48 a few times a week when you're first starting. And sometimes when you're elite, like every day from anywhere from like 15 minutes to an hour. And a skating coach based on location, based on level can be anywhere between, I would say the cheapest elite coach I've ever worked with was like $80 an hour. And the most expensive was 140 an hour. So if you're doing that for hours every day for years, yeah. Then there's different competitions to go to. When you get older, it's easier because the competitions are paid for, like you're sent there through Team USA. But you know, you have all your costumes, you have all the other trainers that you work with, you have to work with an off ice trainer, there's not just one coach you work with, there's choreographers, there's everything.
Starting point is 00:13:36 So sometimes the expenses can be anywhere between like 50 $60,000 up to like 80 $90,000 in a year. So like, if you're still making like good money, you'll 90 thousand dollars in a year. So like if you're still making like good money, you'll end up still in the red. Yeah. So, I mean, if you start this as a, as a, as a kid, you know, like eight, nine, 10, 11 years old, and oftentimes it starts before that, you know, and you're working towards the Olympic, which maybe happens in your late teens, your early twenties or mid twenties. That's, I mean, that starts to add up. I mean, were you conscious of that outflow in the context of sort of like the demand that it was putting not just on you, but on potentially like your family, like the five other siblings and stuff like that?
Starting point is 00:14:18 I think like now as an adult, I'm like, holy shit, it sounds really crazy. And I think that really, when you're young, you don't have a concept of what's happening. You understand it's big. You understand that people are moving their lives around so that you can do something. And I saw that and I saw it sort of as like a reason for me to work hard and push and keep practicing. Because at the end of the day, like, I also was making different, like, sacrifices in my life, but they never felt like sacrifices to me, because I would have given up anything just to have those like moments where I felt like alive. Yeah. Was your desire to pursue Olympics related to sort of like the idea that, okay, so if so many people are behind me and
Starting point is 00:15:05 investing so much in me, time, love, energy, resources, I need to like, it's a gross analogy, but create the best return on the investment, both for me and for everybody else who's sort of like caring about me. It never starts out that way. But when it becomes your reason for having success, you don't attract it. And I think that when I was young, I was optimistic. The Olympic aspiration felt like mine and it felt like something I could do. And I think when I got older, it felt like I needed to have this return on the investment. It felt like if I didn't make this happen, I failed the people who put all the time and money into trying to let me live this dream, that I've failed them. So I think when you're young, you don't really have this taste of what failure is or what missing a goal is because there's always next year. There's always the next event. you, that the Olympic dream became mine again, because I think that I still was at this place
Starting point is 00:16:28 where, and I'm talking about like 2014, this is for me. So at 24, I felt like it was my last time to qualify for the Olympics and I didn't. And at 28, it's highly unlikely that I would even be skating or, you know, get better. Like that's not something that happens in a sport where everyone's so young. So I felt like it was all over. I felt like, okay, it's over. It's never going to happen. And I failed everybody. I can even like close my eyes right now and think of that moment of being like, oh, wow, it's really not going to happen. And I can also tell you the Olympics comes and goes like that, that I can feel like, oh, and because I'm in the middle of this book tour, I can close my eyes and be like, did it happen? Thank God it did. But it felt like a
Starting point is 00:17:18 do or die moment in my life that I needed to happen or I was a failure. And then once I got over that and once I kind of took the joy back, which was a journey to get to that place, but once I had the joy back in what I was doing and in my training, I realized that I didn't need to go to the Olympics to prove anything to anyone. And that if I worked hard and I focused on the right things, that would just be a byproduct of all of the hard work that I was doing. And it took like 20 years of skating to get to that point. But when I finally got there, it was really validating. Yeah. I mean, leading up to 2014 also was an interesting window for you.
Starting point is 00:18:08 Because, you know, like you said, there was, I guess, in theory, the first quote shot, you would have like potentially even realistically thought to yourself was like 2010 maybe, but you were still kind of young and like, so maybe you were like, okay, if you're like, okay, if I don't make it then like fine, I still have 2014, right? But then in the window between 2010 and like, so maybe you were like, okay, if you're like, okay, if I don't make it then like, fine, I still have 2014. Right. But then in the window between 2010 and 2014, especially when your mind is like, this is, this is half to not, you know, this is no longer just, wouldn't it be
Starting point is 00:18:33 cool if, but like, there's now everything is shifting. You were, I mean, there were so many personal struggles that you were going through also. And at one point it was just the window where, because you also, I mean, setting the scene even more broadly, but you were out of your house and living with coaches, like in a different part, you know, different States at a pretty young age, like, you know, so, I mean, it's kind of interesting, like you're one of six kids, but you lived a radically different life. I did. I lived where I was like in and out of different families homes because it was the only thing that where I was like in and out of different families' homes
Starting point is 00:19:05 because it was the only thing that like I was able to do. And I'm so grateful to those families still. Like they still feel really close to my heart because they opened their door to me and I did everything I could to like prove my worth to them. Like clean the house when they were like, just relax. And I'd be like, where's the vacuum? I just, I did everything that I could to like,
Starting point is 00:19:27 make sure that they were comfortable with me being there. And, you know, to go back in 2010, you know, I was living away from home since I was like 15, but by the time it was 2010, I was living in Toronto at the time. The Olympics were going to be in Vancouver. So I was living and training in Toronto, a city that I still love going there today. It feels like home. And while I was there, I was training and I was still young, got to that national championships before the Olympics. And I knew I had this outside chance, I was a dark horse to make the team, came very close and was an alternate sort of exactly where if I had
Starting point is 00:20:11 to predict where I would have finished, that was it. That like the people who went were the best that the country had and that I was the next generation when they would retire. And I kind of knew that deep down, it still stunk because I would have loved to like, if somebody had made a mistake, be right there, but nobody did. And I did and it was okay. It was my first Olympic cycle. But with knowing that you think, you know, the next four years have to be mine. You know, all of these people in front of me are retiring. That means that I should be the national champion. of me are retiring. That means that I should be the national champion. And so I started putting this pressure that I had to be a national
Starting point is 00:20:50 champion, or it was like everybody who's ever believed in me ever, or said a nice thing to me ever was wrong and a liar. And finally they know what I've always known that I'm like a fake or a fraud. And I battled with that as a competitor for like four years of feel like getting so close. And then I would make one mistake and I'd feel like defined by it instead of just saying to myself, you know, it happens. Nice is slippery. Like just learn from it and you don't need to make the same mistake again. But I just feel like, you know, when you're playing Jenga and you just like, you have that one piece that's off to the side and you're like, oh, my God, it's so easy. And you pull it and it all falls down.
Starting point is 00:21:30 You know, it's because you panic. You panic. You don't, you know, jiggle the table a bit and make sure that all the pieces are going to stay. And I would panic that like, oh, my God, the whole thing is like falling down and crumbling in front of me. And so that was also kind of going along with like my own personal struggles of figuring out who I was. Like I came out to my friends and family in the middle of all that. So it's like when it rains, it like pours. Yeah. Mayday, mayday.
Starting point is 00:22:02 We've been compromised. The pilot's a hitman. I knew you were going to be fun. On January 24th. Tell me how to fly this thing. Mark Wahlberg. You know what the difference between me and you is? You're going to die.
Starting point is 00:22:11 Don't shoot him, we need him. Y'all need a pilot? Flight risk. The Apple Watch Series 10 is here. It has the biggest display ever. It's also the thinnest Apple Watch ever, making it even more comfortable on your wrist, whether you're running, swimming, or sleeping. And it's the fastest charging Apple Watch,
Starting point is 00:22:30 getting you eight hours of charge in just 15 minutes. The Apple Watch Series 10, available for the first time in glossy jet black aluminum. Compared to previous generations, iPhone XS or later required, Charge time and actual results will vary. So in those four years, it's sort of like really wild ups and downs and swings on the skating side. It was interesting also, you know, on you sort of like stepping into your own identity, your sexuality, and then making the decision. For you, it's interesting also because when you say, okay, so I'm going to come out, it's family and friends, but also you have a level of public notoriety and you represent a certain public expectation and ideal. So it's not like a clean, intimate process for you. It's sort of like, it's got to be bigger and more deliberate. Well, I think so. When I was writing the book, I had a lot of time to think and reflect on like the points in my life where I felt like a failure. And it really wasn't until I wasn't
Starting point is 00:23:40 afraid of those moments. Like I remember thinking of times and skates that I had that I just could not watch. I couldn't watch them. And there was just one day where I sat down with my, you know, computer and I pulled them all up and I watched them all back to back to back. Everyone that I thought was like awful. And I would watch them all and I watched them all over and over and over. And I said, that's not, it's not that bad. Like you're here today and you're still alive.
Starting point is 00:24:06 You're still, you know, your family and your friends don't think less of you because of those. And it was like sort of in that moment where I realized that like I was the one who was doubting myself the most and that I was the one who had been holding myself back. So I also was thinking that I wanted to do things that made me feel free and things that I would do if I were not afraid. Because I, you know, that quote, what would you do if you weren't afraid? You know, I'd heard it a million times, but there was just like one time someone said it and it like hit me right in the brain. And I went, oh my God, yeah, what would I really do if I wasn't scared or nervous or, you know, had these anxieties about these different things? Like, what would I do if I
Starting point is 00:24:50 just really just went out there and didn't give a fuck it, but on the same side, like, you know, treat people the way I want to be treated, but just like, just win after things with confidence because I wasn't confident. And after not making the 2014 Olympic team, which was in Russia that had passed this anti-gay propaganda law, which nobody really knew or still knows what exactly that means. I felt like important for me to say something because when I was figuring out my own identity, I looked and read other people's stories. And, you know, being gay for me is not a big thing. It's not a big deal. It's just kind of who I am. But for a long time, I made it such a big deal in my head that I just felt like people knew or that they thought I was lying to them. Or I, it created so much anxiety in my own life that when I finally just said it out loud, I was like, oh, and I just, I wasn't worried about it anymore. And so I wanted to be able to
Starting point is 00:25:53 give that gift to somebody else, like other people had given it to me just by sharing their story. And when I did, I didn't have a big audience. I wasn't an Olympian. I wasn't a national champion yet. But I wanted to just, you know, put my story out there because I think when people do that, it helps normalize it. And that visibility really helps someone who might need someone who they see themselves in. Yeah. When you first did that, I mean, you share how you talk to your mom and then to your dad and they were both, you know, like, well, your mom was kind of like, duh. Like it's, you know, I've known, I think you said her line was you were inside of me for nine months. Yeah, she's like, you were inside me. And I was like, that's a little TMI. Right. Okay. Okay. But it was interesting because it was personal acceptance, but then she expressed concern about you not coming out sort of on a professional level.
Starting point is 00:26:51 And I think it sounded like that was for fear because in the world that you existed in, it is still a world where you get judged by individuals who are human beings who have their own internal biases and reflections and orientations. And it sounds like she was concerned that it might damage this thing that you've been working towards for your entire life. Oh, yeah. And, you know, my mom and I have talked about it. My mom's told me that, like, you know, she always saw that the Olympics is just, you know, the stars need to align. You not only need to be in the best shape of your life, but you need to be in the best shape of your life timed out to a four-year increment. So it's, you know, it's just, it's this crazy thing. And my mom felt like maybe if I was out, it might be the one thing that maybe a judge
Starting point is 00:27:42 would judge me differently for. And she didn't want that for me. And my mom had a lot of gay friends who she danced with because my mom was a dancer. And she lost a lot of them to AIDS. And she saw the way that they were treated by other people. And she didn't want that for me. And I think that she was just afraid and didn't believe in the world that was out there or that I was or that the world that I was stepping into at that moment. And I told her that like if this is the thing that keeps me out of the Olympics, then so be it.
Starting point is 00:28:16 Because I think it could be the thing that like really just gives me the confidence to go to the Olympics. And if this is the thing that is the reason that I won't go, then I really don't care to go anyway, because it was so much bigger than me in that moment. And I just felt like that it was, I just felt like I really needed to do that. And I can say with 100% confidence that like in those moments and in those months after I came out publicly that I was a way better athlete. I was a way better competitor because I was just, I wasn't hiding anything. And, you know, for anyone like who is listening and is part of the LGBTQ plus community, you know that moment of coming out is like this liberating moment. And if you're not, coming out is this moment where you have to say who you are and say this is exactly what I am to the world.
Starting point is 00:29:23 And you have to, in a way, like not care what that person you're telling thinks. So it's a very vulnerable place, but it's also like the most liberating moment. And you get so much strength and confidence from like proclaiming that out loud. So I always hope that everyone has that sort of moment in their life, whether they're, you know, LGBTQ plus or not, that they have this moment where they have to say who they are out loud, because it's like a moment that's so powerful to me. It was a moment that like changed my whole view of like who I was. Yeah. It's so interesting also how you say, I mean, it affected your, your physicality, you know, like you, you, you're, you're skating. I feel like so, you know, like you said, whether it's sexual
Starting point is 00:30:13 orientation, gender identification, whatever it may be, pretty much everybody has something about them that they're not stepping fully into completely, you know? So this is so it's sort of like whatever it is for you. I think we so underestimate how much it weighs us down, not just psychologically, but physically and physiologically. And we just kind of accept the way that we feel as we move throughout the day or participate in a sport or do the thing we're here to do. It just is what it is. Never considering that there may be this bigger thing that we've been sort of pushing out to the side for our lives that may be the universal drag on every aspect of our being. Right, like when I say I was a better competitor,
Starting point is 00:30:58 it was because I was like, I had more confidence in myself. And for me, that meant like I would go to the rink having already written out like a five month schedule of like the competitions I was going to do, when I thought I should go and work with other people. And I would go to my coach and I just felt like smart and I felt strong and I felt powerful. And I said, this is the plan I want to have.
Starting point is 00:31:26 What do you think? Where should we fix it? Should we turn anything around? Do you agree with this? So I wasn't, you know, in there calling the shots, but I always said, you know, I'm ready. Like I'm prepared. I'm ready for anything. And let's like, let's fucking do this. And I think I never felt like a competitor before because I felt like I was always the person who would look around and be like, God damn it. They're all better than me. Like, why am I even here? But then when, after I had come out, I felt so confident in like my strategy and my planning that like I became such a good competitor, not because I was focused on like the fight of it all, but because I was so focused on the planning and the getting the work done that when I got to the competition, that was the easy and the fun part. That was the performance.
Starting point is 00:32:16 But I just became such like a really good competitor because truly it was rooted in this moment where I declared who I was. And I didn't, I didn't feel bothered if somebody didn't like me or not, because if they didn't like me, I knew they were wrong because I'm cool. And I was like, if you don't think I'm cool, then you're probably not cool. We shouldn't be friends anyway. Yeah. And by larger extension, that includes the entire Olympic body. Yes. And I think that like a lot of people have asked me like, what were my experiences of being an out athlete at the Olympics?
Starting point is 00:32:55 And I can tell you that like my experience of being an out athlete at the Olympics is I hope the experience that every athlete has at the Olympics. I think sometimes if you have this doubt that you will be accepted by other people for some sort of reason of like maybe your background or sexual orientation or gender identity or race or something along those lines, something you can't control, but you'll just be judged by other people. I think if you go into those situations and you feel like you have to explain yourself, you're almost inviting someone to explain why they could disagree with you. But I decided that I was never going to give anyone that opportunity. And it worked. And it was like a foolproof way of being like, you know what? Maybe somebody would say that we wouldn't be friends, but I know that I'm funny. I know I'm cool. And I know that you
Starting point is 00:33:55 want to be friends with me. So like, I'm not even going to go there. I'm not going to give you any reasons or a chance to say that you wouldn't. So, you know, I remember that when we were at the Olympics, there was this one athlete who some of the people I was hanging out with, they were like, you might not want to like go around him. He can, you know, he might not, we don't know how he might react around you or whatever. And I said, okay, whatever. So I went right up to him and I said, hey, what's up? And then we started talking a bit. And then I was like, why is your haircut so awful? And we just started laughing right away. And it was just like breaking down that barrier.
Starting point is 00:34:32 And we got along and we were friends that whole time. And we had like a great time together. And I think that when you can have conversations like with people who you might be afraid might not like you, like that fear and that like negative pull that those people have, it's usually 100% of the time based in fear. So if you can go and you can break down those walls for somebody, like it's really helpful to them too. Yeah. And meanwhile, there's an even bigger sort of subtext and backdrop here, which is, you know, coming out was part of the sale and your wins as you sort of like moved from 2014 to 2018 and started looking at like, well, you know, like, I mean, in late 20s, is it really possible?
Starting point is 00:35:15 Like for like another Olympic shot, but something else that was going on behind the scenes is you had also made the decision to sort of step into your own financial control, like your own sense of financial agency. And rather than saying, okay, you know, like family had sacrificed a lot to sort of like get you to a certain place. But at a certain moment, you also partially at the, like the nudging of a coach, you know, like we're like, okay, it's time. And it's going to be brutally hard, which it was for a number of years. Oh, it was brutally. I mean, like I had no money. Like I didn't have, you know,
Starting point is 00:35:49 a pot to piss in, as they say in Northeastern Pennsylvania. You know, I didn't have anything. I had like random change, like $1 bills. And I had 80 euros from like an event that I had gone to that was like, you know, per diem for meals that I ended up, you know, cause I was always savvy. So it'd be like, they had a free breakfast. So I'd take the free breakfast and basically like, you know, shove it in a bunch of napkins and eat, you know, the breakfast all day. So it's like, I had the money left over, but that's what I opened a bank account with. I opened a bank account with my Pennsylvania driver's license and 80 euros. Couldn't afford to basically do anything. Like I
Starting point is 00:36:35 had, I got money at first because I had just finished a skating competition where I got some prize money. It was like $2,000. So, you know, you might be thinking like, well, $2,000 isn't no money. When you're a skater, it's gone in a second. All of a sudden you have to pay for your ice. You have to pay for the coaches and you have to pay for a gym. And then all of a sudden you realize, okay, I have to pay for my cell phone and then I have to pay for this and that. And so it's gone in a second. So you don't have any money. But I was lucky because the gym that I worked out at had this bowl of like apples and I would take like all the apples that they had. And I was like, okay, basically it's like a gym and a grocery store all in one. And so I tried to be as thrifty as
Starting point is 00:37:21 possible, but it was really challenging. But I think what it did for me was that it took that pressure away of feeling like I was failing my family or something like that. Because when I had those setbacks, they were mine. And I needed to dig myself out of that hole. It wasn't like, oh my God, what are we going to do? Like me, my mom, my brothers and sisters. The reason we were in the mess in the first place was I made the mistakes. But when I was there by myself, I had to buckle down and get it together. And I did. So those failures, they were mine and I could own them and I could wear them proudly. And the successes, they were mine too. And I did that on my own. And there's just this level of accomplishment you feel when you feel like you did that. You did so many things to make that happen. And, you know, nothing happens on your own.
Starting point is 00:38:12 There's always a huge team of people behind you, but there's that sense of like you risked it all personally. Yeah. It just completely changes sort of like the felt experience of being in it um both the highs and the lows you know because like you've got to own every single part of it coming out of 2014 you like you said there was a moment where so you miss the olympics you're you're at a place where you're thinking to yourself okay so uh you know like i'm working really hard i'm i'm sort of stepping into my own place but people in this particular sport, it's really
Starting point is 00:38:47 rare to go on and compete like four years later from this. But something inside of you, a flip switched that changed your entire perspective about why you were doing this and whether you actually had to go and whether there was something much more personally nourishing that you were just getting out of it. Was there a moment or a specific thing that happened or was it just sort of like a gradual evolution? It was sort of like once I let go of these doubts that I had about myself that like, oh, maybe I wouldn't improve. You know, you're not going to go to the Olympics being so close to 30. Like it's just that doesn't happen. And when I stopped thinking about that and I just tried to really the biggest game changer for me was like in the season after not making the Olympic team, I was skating and was like fucking awful. Like I was so bad. And if you asked me, how's it going? I'd be like, good. So it wasn't good. Then I had this one competition. It was the nationals the next year. And I had eight weeks.
Starting point is 00:39:47 And I said, you know what? I'm not going to do this to myself anymore. I'm going to train harder than I've ever trained before. I have nothing to lose. I'm just going to go. And it is what it is. And I'm going to always know that if this was my last competition, I gave it everything I had. I was my very best,
Starting point is 00:40:06 and there's nothing more I could have done at the end of the day. So I did that, and I had this incredible competition. And I realized, like, I feel like I have more to give. I feel like I could live in this headspace that, like, I can just do everything I can, and whatever happens, it happens. And I don't have to live in regret because, you know, the ice is slippery. People make mistakes, but if you learn from them, you learn from them. But, you know, if you've given a hundred percent every day in practice, there's nothing for you to regret. You get nervous. It gets scary. It's hard. So those mistakes can happen. And when I did that, then I realized that I was getting better. I realized that my
Starting point is 00:40:47 success didn't need to be on the same timeline as everyone else because I was also looking around and could see that, you know, I'm getting older. The people who are starting to beat me are now teenagers or in their early twenties. I could see that, but I also felt like I was getting better. And I said, you know what? I'm going to let go of worrying about what everyone else is doing. And I'm going to look internally. Do I feel like I'm getting better? Yes. Am I enjoying what I'm doing now?
Starting point is 00:41:12 Yes. So that's what I'm going to focus on. I broke the focus a few times, but I immediately was able to get right back into the right headspace. Yeah. I mean, it's interesting. It sounds like, were you the kid who was a bit of a perfectionist? Oh, hell yes.space. Yeah. I mean, it's interesting. It sounds like, were you the kid who was a bit of a perfectionist? Oh, hell yes. Right. Yeah. So it's certainly, there's that
Starting point is 00:41:29 thread that kind of drives that for so long. I think it's finding ways to channel it better. Yeah. Because when you focus on like, you know, being perfect, there's no such thing as being perfect because like you can do something that looks perfect, but if you really sit down and analyze that, you're like, I could have skated faster. I could have jumped higher. I could have landed it better. So what are you really going after? You're going after the impossible. Yeah. Which is almost by definition suffering. Yes. Right. Spending all of your energy trying to attain something, which is not attainable. You can only lose in life. Yes. It's like, you know, like it's guaranteeing unhappiness. It's a different mindset to go into something and say, I'm going to do my best at it rather than I'm going to
Starting point is 00:42:15 do it perfectly. When you are trying to do something perfectly, I always had the mindset of that, like you're walking this tightrope. And you know, when someone says you need to get from one side to the other, and when someone, I felt like I needed to do, I needed to do it perfectly. I was walking on this tightrope and I could just fall down at any minute. So I was like, not, you know, giving too much. I wasn't giving too little. I was just trying to be right on the line. And then when you're like, they're like, you know, get from one side to the other and do your best. You're like, okay, you know what? If I fall, I fall. If I don't, I don't. And you go and you're just, you look up, you feel more powerful in that, you know,
Starting point is 00:42:55 situation. You can give your best, but when you feel like it has to be perfect, it's that added pressure that you put on yourself. Yeah. And then in the context of something like figure skating too, right? Where the boundaries of what anybody could even try and define as, as quote perfect is constantly being expanded. You know, I think about when I was a kid, it was a gymnast, right? A 10 in gymnastics when I was a kid versus a 10 now, it's, it's almost like an entirely different sport because people push so far. And when that's happening, and like, so that needle is being moved, like literally like by the minute, it's just, there's never, there's no there there.
Starting point is 00:43:36 No, because also like what is, you know, in skating, there's so many things where like the rules will change often. And there'll be like a, you know, a flow of like what is rewarded more. Sometimes you'll see like a few years where people are really pushing the envelope technically. And what you'll end up seeing is like one or two people succeeding and then it'll be everyone else is just a mess, but nobody wants to see a whole event of everyone being a mess waiting for two people. So then they'll start to reward maybe like artistry and spins a little bit more.
Starting point is 00:44:11 Once they do that, the people who are still doing these technical things still do well, but it almost gives a little bit of pressure off of the people who aren't doing as technically difficult programs to catch up. They catch up and then all of a sudden they're not ahead anymore. So then the, you know, someone starts trying harder jumps and they start doing harder jumps. And then you're at this point again, where they need to find this balance so that in this performance sport, every performance is a good one so that people are engaged. And so that you're also not, you know, going into a competition, just going to fall a million times, just trying to get points, but it's still this visually, you know, beautiful thing to watch. But so exactly to your point, the level is always changing that what is happening and what is rewarded is always changing.
Starting point is 00:45:00 It's a living, breathing thing that is completely, like, there's no limit to, like, where you could go. Yeah. thing. Mark Wahlberg. You know what's the difference between me and you? You're gonna die. Don't shoot him! We need him! Y'all need a pilot. Flight Risk. The Apple Watch Series 10 is here. It has the biggest display ever. It's also the thinnest Apple Watch ever, making it even more comfortable on your wrist,
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Starting point is 00:46:14 expectations and standards in all different domains. And certainly figure skating is not excluded from that. Well, for me, my struggle struggle with like body and all of that wasn't ever based in like image. It wasn't like an aesthetic thing for me. I was just in the mindset of like, I'm going to do whatever I can to be my best. And men, when they get older, get bigger and they get stronger and their shoulders get wider. And if, you know, I had this analogy of like when I worked with the last coach that I worked with, he spun a pencil and he spins the pencil and he's like, do you see how fast the pencil spins? I'm like, yes. And then
Starting point is 00:46:57 he takes a grape and he pokes it through the end of the pencil and he spins it. And all of a sudden the pencil is wobbling. And he goes, that's what happens if you get too big. And you want to be like, that's harsh, but it's also, yeah, that's what happens. If your shoulders are too wide, you're not going to be rotating as quickly. So when you're competing against younger kids and younger men who are slighter than you, you want to do what you can to keep up. So I was doing what I could to be competitive. I never looked in the mirror and was like, I don't like what I see. I looked in the mirror and was like, I can make this machine better. I just saw my body as like this vessel to like compete with. And I did crazy effing shit. Like I would not, I would have like days where I would just have like drinkable yogurt.
Starting point is 00:47:49 Like, could you imagine? Like, that sounds so weird. Like I made that up, you know, that's not like a crazy diet, like I made that up. And then I would do things where I would have like, you know, I knew protein was good. So I was like, I'll have like five, six pieces of bread, like this builder bread with that has, you know, nuts in it. And I was like, I'm getting protein. So I'd have like, you know, a yogurt and a piece of bread. And that's like all I was having. And it just kind of came to this point that the worst part about it was that I was getting a lot of
Starting point is 00:48:20 praise because I was looking like this fine, you know, well-oiled machine. I was lean as shit. I was in great, I was a great like looking athlete. I was so like, there wasn't an ounce of fat on me. And I was like this lean machine that like, I was skating better than I ever had, but I wasn't doing it the right way. And it all kind of comes to this like, you know, front where I break my foot and I break it because I haven't been eating properly. Like I, I knew that that was a huge factor and it was a year before the 2018 Olympics. So it's like, you know, I have this huge change of mindset and then all of a sudden this happens, but I just still kind of believed in myself for some reason. I don't know why I was delusional a bit, but you have to be. And I felt like, you know what,
Starting point is 00:49:15 this is a chance for me to kind of take control of this and like do this the right way. And so I worked with a sports dietician and they helped me, you know, find ways that I could be as lean as possible, but like be eating like what I should. And then I realized that like when I started eating more and the right things, I didn't get any bigger. I didn't like put myself at a disadvantage. I actually felt way better. I felt more alert, but it's layered in so many different things where it's like, you don't eat, you eat so little that then you start to associate that feeling of being hungry with working hard
Starting point is 00:49:53 and the feeling of being full, like you've cheated. So it's like a longer battle to be on. Yeah, and when you're performing better than you had before and you're getting praise, it's like all of a sudden like, well, I don't want to do anything. Whatever I'm doing now, just don't stop. Keep doing it because whatever it is, it's working rather than maybe I'm actually doing this almost in spite of it. Totally. I don't think that I was doing so well because I was having bread and yogurt. Like, that's not the reason I was doing well.
Starting point is 00:50:28 I was working really, really hard. And I think that there's a point where you're like getting lean and you're lean and lean. And then your body just gets to this point where it's like, there's nothing for you to burn off. Like, it's just, it's over. So I was living in this like burning anything that I had and it just, I burnt out.
Starting point is 00:50:47 And so I just got to this moment where it was just, it was too much. It was too much. And, you know, in every sense, like life always takes over and life took over. Yeah. So you each, I mean, 2014 to 2017, you're skating better than ever. You're doing really good. The idea of you actually having one more shot at the Olympics actually is becoming a reality. You're performing well, you're leading up to it and everything is on track and the community is seeing you move towards that and embracing you. And then like you said, a year out, you have this devastating injury. Like everything is going the way it's supposed to go. You only need to get yourself another year, like to get, you know, first to make the Olympic team and then to get there and do this thing, but you end up breaking your foot.
Starting point is 00:51:30 To be honest, I was pushing and working so hard that when I broke my foot, I almost felt like I need this break. And I feel like that break away from the ice, I would have never, ever gotten that opportunity had I not broken my foot. And in a way I was relieved. And another way, immediately, of course, as soon as I break my foot, I'm like, I could, I just, you know, when you drop your iPhone on the like concrete and you're like, okay, I'm going to pick it up and it's either going to work better or it's broken and it's shattered. And I had that moment when I broke my foot, I looked down at it and like my ankle was the size of my head. I couldn't step on it. It was just, I knew it was really bad immediately as soon as it happened. And everyone around me is like,
Starting point is 00:52:20 don't panic. Maybe it's sprained. I'm like, it's not sprained. I think I know I broke it. Also in that next moment, I thought that it's like the third or fifth of January or something like that of 2017. I'm like, the Olympics are a year and a month away. So I will recover from this. This is not going to take months and months. And immediately I'm like, I'll go, I'll move to the Olympic Training Center in Colorado Springs. I'll do all my rehab there. I'll be with the best people. I'm going to be resting and getting my mind around going to the Olympics like months before
Starting point is 00:52:55 people who are also going to compete at the Olympics will have that opportunity because there's still like five more months of that season left. So I said, you know what? This is, it's an opportunity. And I saw it immediately like that. And I had, you know, seconds and moments of being like, like, this sucks. But for the most part, those were so far and, you know, did not distract me from where I was going. Do you ever wonder, I've brought this up in other conversations,
Starting point is 00:53:25 I'm fascinated with the concept of sliding doors. Have you ever reflected for a moment on whether if that had never happened and you hadn't had this forced break emotionally, mentally, physically, and also this was a window where you start to really relook at your nutrition, whether you might've actually entered the time where you were being sort of like judged, are you going to make it or not in a worse place? I think I would have, I had this sense that like I was entering the, like I was almost on borrowed time. And I think that like, I felt like I was getting better, but I could also feel that like I was entering the, like I was almost on borrowed time. And I think that like, I felt like I was getting better, but I could also feel that like, I didn't have much more in me as like as competitive skater that like, I was sort of reaching like the peak of my ability, like
Starting point is 00:54:18 technically. And I could feel that I felt like, you know, I've pushed myself so far that like, this is as good as I will get technically. I felt like, you know, I've pushed myself so far that like, this is as good as I will get. Technically, I felt like I was consistently getting better, but like I wasn't landing new tricks. It's it, that wasn't happening, happening for me. And I think that like, I was pushing so hard that this break sort of gave me the mindset to build up again, because it's so hard to stay at a level of consistency and strength for another year. That this drop off, I could build up again. But I already had such a strong base that where I was building up from, I was in such a better place. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
Starting point is 00:55:02 So you end up doing the work, coming back. It takes you twice as long to get out of the boot as you thought it would. it and they say, okay, four more. So then I'm in it for eight weeks and then they say, okay, four more. So I am, I'm end up being in it for 16 weeks. Like it was a long time. And did I like cheat and like walk around a few times in a sneaker? Like, yes, I did. And I was, you know, I never had, I was like, I was walking on like, you know, a glass floor or something, but like, I was walking just to test it out a little bit, but I put the boot right back on and I did everything I could to make sure that I would heal as quickly as possible because the kind of break I had, I didn't need to get surgery. It was an option, but it would require two different surgeries where they would put a plate in and screws, and then I'd have another surgery where they would take it all out.
Starting point is 00:56:04 So the doctor suggested that I not do it because it was two different surgeries, but, and I'm glad I did that. But let me tell you, it was a long 16 weeks. Yeah. I mean, cause that's 16 weeks, you know, effectively four months out of 12 months that you have before the Olympics. That's huge psychologically as much as physically. You end up coming back, you end up getting back into training, getting your place back where you are absolutely in contention to make the team for 2018, but it's not a lock. And the way they let you know is interesting. Yeah. So basically like what happens is that like the way you get assigned to the team is based on like a pedigree of two years prior, because they want to know what kind of competitor you've been.
Starting point is 00:56:53 They want to know how you've been judged internationally and they want to send the best and it's over. Because, you know, it's hard to say that like, if you've been a great competitor, you like it's would be normal. And it would be scary if you skated incredibly well, six weeks out from the games. Like, are you going to maintain that level of excellence for six weeks? It doesn't seem possible. It's very challenging. So it's to be expected that there might be a few like uncharacteristic mistakes at that one competition, which I had. The thing that set my disadvantage off was that I had missed this whole second half of the season. I missed the whole first four months of 2017, which were a huge part of this criteria. The thing that helped me was that three years out,
Starting point is 00:57:46 they could see that I was a national champion. I was the highest ranked man at a world championships from the U S that I was like, you know, the best male skater in the U S at that point. What didn't help me was that like, you know, I was in a close contention with like five other people to be that, because at that, there's another American skater. His name is Nathan Chen who really stepped into being not only one of the best in the US but one of the best in the world. So now it's like a bunch of us competing for these other kind of two spots on the Olympic team. And I'm at this disadvantage because in the criteria, it says, what place did you get at the 2017 national championships? I didn't go. What did you get at the 2017,
Starting point is 00:58:32 you know, pre-worlds competition? Nothing. I didn't go. What did you get at the world championships in 2017? I didn't go. I'm missing like three huge pieces of criteria. So I go into this next season and I'm like, you know what? I've got to give it every single competition I can. So I go and I do that and everything seems to be going well. And then this one last national championships, I have this great short program. And then I make these two really very uncharacteristic, not like what's going on, like just total mental lapse. And I haven't skated like a program like that in years, probably in like four years.
Starting point is 00:59:14 I end up fourth. So I'm right off of the like top three spots, but what I had done the whole season and in the first part of the competition in the short program, I showed I was in good shape. It just showed that I had this mental lapse for one second. And when I got off the ice, I said, you know what, if I don't go to the Olympics because of this, then so be it. Because it's not like I didn't try. It's not like I wasn't focused. And a mistake happens. But I also felt good about my chances of going because my criteria based on every other aspect was the second best. But you don't know until it's official. And so, you know, after this last competition, I'm just waiting and waiting. And finally, they tell you via text message, which is crazy because you're like, okay, here I am at the biggest moment in my life.
Starting point is 01:00:13 And we'll let you know, but we will definitely text you later. So you're like, okay. And so I waited. It was like 1.30 in the morning when I found out and I get this text message and it says, congratulations, you have been assigned to the 2018 Olympic team. And it's just this moment of exhaling for the first time in like 20 years. And that's, how far out is that from the actual games at that point? You have six weeks from that moment. So it's like on the verge. So you're basically in it from that moment.
Starting point is 01:00:41 From that moment on, it's not like I'm doing everything I can to get to the Olympics. From that moment on, it's not like I'm doing everything I can to get to the Olympics. From that moment on, it's I am going to the Olympics and I know like the world will be watching. I get it together. Yeah. When you realize you're going beyond doing the best that you could possibly do, did you create any intentions or expectations for yourself about what you hoped or wanted to make happen? I think a lot of people talk about like the Olympic experience. And I wanted to have like
Starting point is 01:01:09 the best experience I could, but I to have the best I needed to know, like, what did that mean for me? And for me, I knew that like, for me to go to the Olympics, the thing that I could do the best was on that team event, be an asset to help the team get a medal. So that meant being like in the best shape that I could absolutely be in to be there for that event. Cause that's where I could help get a medal in the individual competition. I knew it was just be, you know, a good competitor and represent yourself. Well, I didn't, I was not a favorite for a medal, but I knew that like, if I skated well and there were mistakes, like anything can happen, just show up, show up and be there. So that's what I did.
Starting point is 01:01:50 That's what I did for on the ice for off of the ice, you know, having the best Olympic experience meant like being myself, just being honest, having, you know, interviews where I answered questions, honestly, like if I felt nervous, I'd be like, hell yeah, I'm really nervous. It's the Olympics, but you know, I'm training and it, you know, and I'm, I'm going to do my best and I'm ready for this moment that that was honest. And so I focused on that. And that for me was having the best Olympic experience, say yes to any opportunity that comes up, focus on your training and, and, you know, represent yourself to the best of your ability. Because if you do that, that's what's representing your country to the best of your ability means. Yeah. So you end up showing up, you and the team
Starting point is 01:02:35 go to the 2018 Olympics. And like you said, the, there were, there was individual and there was also team. What actually happens there? Because when we come to especially the team things, it didn't unfold the way a lot of people expected. Totally. And you ended up stepping in and kind of creating magic. Well, it's just I think that in the moment that it was happening, I really was there to give Nathan Chen a break because he was one of the favorites for gold in the individual.
Starting point is 01:03:09 But he's also one of our best skaters, so we needed him in the team event so that we could get a medal. You know, he's super young. He doesn't have a great skate. You know, that being said, he goes on to like win the free skate portion of the Olympics. He doesn't medal, but he wins the world title like a month later. So he has this bad skate in the team event and it puts us behind.
Starting point is 01:03:32 And when we head into the free skate, I'm gonna skate the free skate portion. I sort of know that like, if I don't skate well, like our team won't medal because we're behind, you know, it just, we were where we were expected to be, but we were hoping for just a bigger gap that Nathan would give us. And we didn't have that. He still did well enough for us to be in a good spot. But I knew that like the next day we needed something special. And I just remember thinking that like, I'm ready for the that like I'm ready for the moment I'm ready for this responsibility
Starting point is 01:04:10 as you're skating around warming up on the ice in the few minutes before it's actually your time for that performance what's going through your mind why do I do this to myself because like I felt so nervous like more nervous than I've ever felt but I also felt like I felt so nervous, like more nervous than I've ever felt. But I also felt like I was so ready. So I was like, you know what, like let's do this. And I felt prepared. And I said, you know, take it one thing at a time, be aggressive and go after it and have no regrets when it's over.
Starting point is 01:04:40 And I remember, you know, finishing that performance and being like, oh my God, I had like the Olympic performance people talk about like that clean perfect program and um it kind of creates momentum within our team because then our lady on the team Mariah Nagasu um she goes out and she has this other Olympic moment and then our ice dance team goes out and they have this moment and all of a sudden like we know when it's all finished, like we've won this medal for our country. What's that like for you? The minute you, when you finally see that the scores across everybody and you realize that not just you
Starting point is 01:05:16 individually, but like as a team for everyone behind you, as you just share like for the country, what's the feeling of that? For me, it was just like, I'm so glad I could have done this for everyone watching at home, but also for my coaches and my parents and my family. Like it was for them. I didn't feel like my moment. My moment was like the one I had on the ice.
Starting point is 01:05:40 But the moment of being an Olympic medalist felt like that's what they had always seen for me. And I had always seen it for myself, but in the moment it felt like it was theirs. And you were good with that? Very good with that. Because at the same time, I was having this other moment that felt like the moment I was waiting for my whole life where I was like entertaining people, but it wasn't through my skating for the first time. I was joking around and doing all these interviews and having all of this like media circus around me. But in a way it was like, I'm really good at this and I'm really good at these interactions with
Starting point is 01:06:16 people. And I'm, I, you know, can not only just make my friends and people around me laugh, but I can make anybody like laugh and feel good. And I was just really in my element when I was doing things like that. And I was like, this whole like Olympic experience is what I wanted and what was happening. And it was like, it was that whole experience was the moment I was waiting for. Yeah, I mean, you were, it's interesting
Starting point is 01:06:42 because there's the experience on the ice, this thing that you had in theory been working for your whole life, you know, and then there's the experience where you end up getting interviewed. And I think in no small part, because you were the person who was sitting up there and being just completely brutally honest and kind of funny, not kind of really funny, but a lot, like, sorry about that. Really, really, really funny. And the media falls in love with you. The audience falls in love with you. Do you feel, I don't know if you had stepped into this thing that you had worked for on the skating side? It was a bigger high for me to see that I was being really accepted and embraced by so many people. The thing about that though, is that I knew that i wouldn't be taken seriously if i didn't do what i was sent there to do so having these moments that i felt like oh my god these are the moments i've
Starting point is 01:07:56 been waiting for like this is the moment like i had never even crossed my mind that i would have a moment like that and that it would translate into that. But I realized that I wouldn't have those moments anymore because what people would think that like, I know I would think at home, like this person who's like outspoken and who's, you know, cracking jokes with like all of these people who are giving these interviews that like, if they didn't go out and compete well, I'd be like, why did we send this clown? And I didn't want that. I wanted to be taken seriously as an athlete in that moment because I wanted to get my job done. And so I knew that like, if I skated well, I would get to do more
Starting point is 01:08:36 of this. So it was the laser focus of being a competitor. And then when I skated well, I could be rewarded with these other experiences off of the ice and out of the arena. And then when I skated well, I could be rewarded with these other experiences off of the ice and out of the arena. And so that was my mentality while I was there. Yeah. Did you also, in addition to saying like, you felt like you were representing a whole bunch of people that were behind you for a lot of years, was there any sensation that you were also out there representing the LGBTQ plus community as, as you like? Hell yeah. Like it was just like, I just, the whole experience of the Olympics felt like I wasn't by myself or alone at all. I felt like I was representing a lot of people, like in some sort of way that like, there was a lot of just seeing what I was going to do,
Starting point is 01:09:27 not even seeing if I was going to win or whatever, but like, what are you going to do in this moment to like represent those people? And I knew that. Was that a heavy feeling for you or a light feeling? I think that I was so prepared for that moment. I was prepared for anything that I said, yeah, I'm, I'm ready for this. I can handle that. And I think in a way it took pressure off of me because it was easier for me to do it for other people than it was for myself. Yeah. When you, you step down off the podium, you finish the games, you come home, you make a decision, or you announce at some point that your competitive skating days are over. Had you made the decision before even going?
Starting point is 01:10:16 I had said out loud that I was planning on maybe skating one more season because there's this, you know, big transition of and changing of the guard of people retiring and newer skaters coming in where it's like a good opportunity for you to take advantage of people's not being prepared. And I told myself that, but I knew in the back of my head that like, if I go to the Olympics and if everything goes well, I would have nothing else to prove. I would have nothing else that I would want to do in my sport. And I knew the moment I landed the last jump in my last program that I was skating in the last competition I would ever compete in. How did that knowledge feel? It felt like a gift. Like what a privilege to be able to have that moment of clarity that so many
Starting point is 01:11:17 people don't have. Have there been times where I've said, oh, I would love to kind of get training again and do it again? Yes. But in that moment, it felt like such the, it felt like the perfect time. What better time than to end a career with, you know, three perfect skates at an Olympic games that you didn't think that you would be good enough to ever go to already having a medal in, in, in your team competition and just really stepping into that moment and knowing that it was like, you can end being your very best. And I think not a lot of people get to do that. And I got to do that. And I felt very grateful. Yeah. I've known a number of Olympians who've gone and medaled. They've gone with a certain expectation. They spent their whole life
Starting point is 01:12:03 preparing for it and they got what they wanted. Then they came home and they fell into really dark places because the driving purpose in their lives, very often for decades, was gone. And they couldn't figure out what to wake up for in the morning anymore. I had a curiosity whether that was your experience. But it's interesting. Like you've said in a number of different ways that you've always been more of a performer than a competitor.
Starting point is 01:12:31 And that being said, you stepped into the world of performing, but on different stages in a very different way. I'm curious whether you experienced that similar doldrum or whether you sort of just transitioned really rapidly and never felt it? I transitioned really rapidly and I was working a lot right away and I was doing something that I wished I could do. I just had no idea how I would ever get it started right away. And at the same time, I was dealing with feeling super depressed. I felt really lucky to be able to do and be working while working through this. But it come and gone in a flash. And it happened the
Starting point is 01:13:26 way you wanted it to, which is amazing. But at the same time, it's over. You don't have this moment of, you know, preparing for the next season. There's no next season. It's just, you know, now you do something else. And there's, you know, the day to day is sort of like you end each day exhausted, physically drained. Now I don't end each day physically drained. I can end it emotionally drained. But you know, there's different there's a different, like sensation to like knowing that like your legs are so sore. Then, you know, when your legs aren't sore, then all of a sudden, you're like, you know, I didn't really work that hard. I just sort of sat around and told jokes all day I didn't like put in work and like push myself and like you know my lungs were burning and my legs are like I can't walk
Starting point is 01:14:18 like you're like is that really what I do now like Like, is that just it? And it's really hard to find like that purpose again, because also, yes, I transitioned really easily into something because it was something I also really, really wanted to do. But here I am like working like 20 years at one thing and I have to kind of start all over again. And you're like, like, what? It's super challenging. And I think that there are a lot of people that don't give themselves like the grace needed in this like transition. And I think that no matter what, whether you feel like you have something going on after or you don't,
Starting point is 01:14:59 it's really hard. It's really challenging. And I admire people like Michael Phelps who have talked about their depression because like, you know, I also felt like I'm not allowed to feel this way because I actually have like really great things happening and I'm working through them. And there were very few people that knew the way that I was feeling when I wasn't at work because I enjoyed what I was doing, but it was always when I got home, when I had this, these doubts and this like anxiety and the depression was like hitting. And, um, I, you know, I was putting on a good show around the people that I was working with. And there were few people in my team who knew the way I was feeling. I told my close friends and they helped me through it, but it wasn't until
Starting point is 01:15:45 I started to talk about it a little bit more that I started to feel like I could find my way out of it. But it's saying goodbye to a whole part of your life. Even if you feel like you're ready to say goodbye, it's still hard. There's no easy way. But I really, you know, I'm really grateful for people like Michael Phelps who share their story because, you know, Michael Phelps, the best athlete in the world, one of the greatest of all time. He felt depressed. And for me, you know, I never was Michael Phelps. I was never, I was not the best athlete in the world. I wasn't even the best skater in the world. And I still felt this way. And I think like talking to my other friends who have left, they shared their own experiences with me and I felt like less alone and I felt like it was normal. But I focused on the positive things that like sports gave me where like I have
Starting point is 01:16:41 this crazy work ethic and you know, nothing is ever enough. I, you know, you can work for eight hours and all of a sudden you're like, well, I'm going to work 12 hours because everyone else is working eight hours. You just have this drive and focus that other people don't have. And your idea of hard work is completely different from what other people consider hard work. And bringing that into whatever you do is such an advantage. And I focused on those things and to think that I can bring those in. And then I started to, you know, find things that brought me, you know, a sense of purpose every day. And it was like a building block.
Starting point is 01:17:16 And it was like, step by step, I needed to figure out what those were. But you know, yes, it was challenging. Yeah. It's interesting, as you're speaking, what just flashes into my mind is that you have worked yourself into a place that's brought you full circle to like five-year-old Adam wanting to invite the neighborhood over to Top Dance, but now you know how to dance and people are showing up. Yes, completely. It's like a full circle moment of like, here I am. I wanted to do that forever. I remember sitting my whole family down trying to tell them jokes. And now I've kind of come to that moment. I mean, I went like a really wicked route to get to just, if you just wanted to tell
Starting point is 01:18:02 some jokes, maybe you didn't need to become like an Olympic fucking figure skater first. It would have saved you a lot of money, you know? But yes, it was this like whole journey to get to like where I am right now. Yeah. So sitting here in this conversation, in this container of a good life project, if I, if I offer up the phrase to live a good life, what comes up? When I think of that, I think of enjoying the process, enjoying the journey and bettering yourself every day. And I've had to discover what that's meant, not as an athlete and now as like a comedian or performer. And I have to reevaluate what that means to me. But to me, that means that I give my all every single day, whatever that is, and to set intentions. And when I feel like I'm living a good life, it's when I've set intentions.
Starting point is 01:18:55 And every day that I bring, I can bring joy into this world. I can bring ease to other people. And I can continue to make people laugh and smile. I think that's what I think of as a good life. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much for listening. And thanks also to our fantastic sponsors who help make this show possible. You can check them out in the links we have included in today's show notes. And while you're at it, if you've ever asked yourself, what should I do with my life? We have created a really cool online assessment that will help you discover the source code
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Starting point is 01:19:54 If there's something that you've heard in this episode that you would love to turn into a conversation, share it with people and have that conversation. Because when ideas become conversations that lead to action, that's when real change takes hold. See you next time. If you're at a point in life when you're ready to lead with purpose, we can get you there. The University of Victoria's MBA in Sustainable Innovation is not like other MBA programs.
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