Good Life Project - Ali Handal: Music, Mastery, Meaning and Money [live performance]

Episode Date: September 19, 2016

Quick note - be sure to listen to the end, we've got a live, acoustic performance by this week's guest that will rock your world!Ali Handal grew up loving music but packed up her guitar and dreams of becoming a professional musician in order to pursue a Ph.D. in psychology. Eventually, though, music called her home.She spent years mastering her craft, becoming a lead-guitarist, vocalist and songwriter, and entrepreneur, eventually co-founding Triple Scoop Music which helps artists license their projects. Ali has also released three albums, toured across four continents, and worked with artists such Neil Young, Janet Jackson, and Paul Williams. Her training book, Guitar for Girls, was written to help students at all levels gain the self-confidence needed to master new challenges so they don't settle for less.And, a little more than three years ago, she was diagnosed with an incurable form of cancer.In this episode, we dive deep into her remarkable journey from student of human behavior to student and eventually teacher of music, performer extraordinaire, successful entrepreneur, author, then patient and wholehearted embracer of live as it comes.In This Episode, You'll Learn:The multiple streams of income Ali can leverage which allow her to pursue an authentic career as an artist.Why performing for free can be a valuable experience and expose opportunities.Alternatives for starving artists to earn a living while developing their craft.How intentional practice can improve weak areas.Why her diagnosis of a rare form of incurable Lymphoma has not stopped her thriving career and pursuit of goals in life.Tips to stick with your passion while you suck.Mentioned in This Episode:Connect with Ali: AliHandal.com | YouTubeGuitar for Girls by Ali HandalGutsy Girl by Caroline Paul"Not a Pretty Girl" by Ani Difranco Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

When you know that you suck, it is so painful. And I quit playing guitar several times. And I just didn't think it was possible for me to get good until he said that to me. And I was like, he's like, you have to be willing to suck. And you have to play through it and play through it. And you're going to suck and you're going to hate it. And eventually, all of a sudden, you're going to be good. And he was right.

Today's guest, Allie Handel, grew up loving music, particularly guitar. And she kind of got in her head that she was never good enough or going to be good enough to make it her life. So she went the academic path and ended up almost pursuing her Ph.D. She went through college and was about to go and get her Ph.D. in psychology and become a therapist when she realized that actually the thing that she had to do was play music. She had to dive back into her guitar and songwriting and make that the center of everything. And there was a moment where somebody kind of said something that snapped her into the realization that just because she wasn't as good as she wanted to be now didn't mean that she never would be.

And everything changed. And that story and where she's landed now is what we dive into in a really powerful way in this week's conversation. We also walk through some pretty big awakenings and moments in her life. A couple of years ago, she was diagnosed with an incurable form of cancer. And we explore how she's been moving through that window, how it affected her and how she sort of lives and how it's changed her and also not changed her in certain ways. And at the end, she brought this stunning, absolutely stunning Gibson guitar to the studio with her. So I couldn't resist asking her to

play something for us. So we get a sneak preview of a song that will be on her forthcoming album, which is pretty awesome. So be absolutely sure to stick around to the end because you don't want to miss that. I'm Jonathan Fields, and this is Good Life Project. The Apple Watch Series X is here. It has the biggest display ever. It's also the thinnest Apple Watch ever, making it even more comfortable on your wrist, whether you're running, swimming, or sleeping.

And it's the fastest-charging Apple Watch, getting you 8 hours of charge in just 15 minutes. The Apple Watch Series X. Available for the first time in glossy jet black aluminum. Compared to previous generations, iPhone Xs are later required. Charge time and actual results will vary. Mayday, mayday. We've been compromised. The pilot's a hitman. I knew you were going to be fun.

On January 24th. Tell me how to fly this thing. Mark Wahlberg. You know what the difference between me and you is? You're going to die. Don't shoot him, we need him. Y'all need a pilot. Flight Risk.

So good to be hanging out with you. I have so many questions about you and your story. Oh, gosh. And I'm looking forward to hearing you play a little bit later, too. And it's so funny that we end up having this mutual friend, like me from a recent part of my life. Yeah. You met Casey when he was out in his touring days in LA or something like that. Oh, really long time ago.

We both were hanging out at this place called Highland Grounds, which was a coffee shop and the place where all the budding singer songwriters would go for open mic nights. And that's where I cut my teeth as a songwriter, as a performing songwriter. And yeah, we knew each other way, way, way, way back then. Right. That's too funny. It's crazy. Yeah. And you've gone through some extraordinary shifts and changes in the last few years too. But I want to take a bigger step back first. We're hanging out here. You have this gorgeous Gibson that's sitting in the corner that at some point I'm going to ask you to pick up and jam with a little bit.

And you've got this really amazing career that you built in music. There's a moment in your life, I guess it's quite a while back now. You were in school about to pursue a PhD in psychology. Did I get that right? I was, yes. All right, take me there. Yeah. Well, I was really good in school for my whole life, not because I'm particularly brilliant, but because I really – can I swear, by the way?

Yeah, you can do anything you want. I just tend to – It's a podcast. I really, can I swear by the way? Yeah, you can do anything you want. I just tend to. It's a podcast. I know, I know. I just, I know I can, but I just feel like I don't want to offend anyone, but whatever. But I, and I'm not even swearing. I worked my ass off like throughout school, more from a really unhealthy perfectionism bent than, you know, some lofty goal of, you know, knowing a lot. So, I was a

straight A student through high school, college, and I was in the honors program at UCLA. And I was all set. I was doing research based on Elizabeth Loftus's eyewitness testimony research that she did with, you know, how unreliable. Now we know eyewitness testimony is very unreliable, but back in the day it wasn't quite so well known. So I was kind of doing some research that was related to that. But I was really miserable. And I had moved to Los Angeles when I was 17 because I was kind of assumed in my family that I would go to college. That was just – there was no question about it. That was the expectation.

That was the expectation. That was the expectation. And I had that too. So I figured, well, if I can't like go and be a rock star, like I secretly fantasized about, I would go where all, you know, the cool rock stars are. And in my mind, that was Guns N' Roses. And, you know, this was like back right when they were, you know, Guns N' Roses was from the Sunset Strip in LA. And it's funny, like as we sit here, they're sort of like doing their reunion thing now.

Oh, my gosh. It's a very different experience. Yeah. People are like, are you going to go see Guns N' Roses? I'm like, are you kidding me? I saw them in a small theater in the late 80s when they were brand new. And they were amazing. Like, I'm not going to go see them now.

I want to keep that memory really fresh. So you're back there. So part of the reason you went to LA wasn't just school, but also because that was sort of in the back of your mind. At least you're doing the thing that you have to do. But this is also the heartbeat of the music scene that you were into. Yeah, I was really into metal and all that embarrassing stuff. Who were they? Beyond G&R. I'll just have to say as a guitar player, I hated Poison. But Skid Row, you know, people who now I don't really listen to.

But I was also raised on really good music like Carole King and, you know, Dylan and the Beatles. But, you know, when I was a teenager, I went to every single metal show, Metallica, Ozzy. That was kind of like my thing. So I grew up in that kind of guitar hero era. Very macho. Were you playing when you were a young kid also? I was playing, but I had no confidence and I was not very good. And so I just thought, well, I'm just not very good at this.

Like I had no concept that maybe if I practiced for a while, I could get as good as all those other people. I just thought I would just must not be very good. But I never really stopped. I still did it. I just felt really bad about myself. And I never played in public. It was, you know, I sang. I sang a lot.

I was always in choir. And actually, when I started college, I was a double major. I was a music major and a psychology major. So, but by the time I ended, you know, I had gotten vocal nodules. And I was singing opera. Yeah. So, I. Wait, wait, wait.

You can't just gloss over. You're like a heavy metal Zeppelin fan, Carole King, and you're singing opera in school. Well, that was all I could study. So I was a music fan and I just loved music and I wanted to learn as much as I could. So I decided to be a music major. But at that time, you know, being a music major meant you played classical music or you sang. And for me, guitar wasn't a thing. That wasn't something you could study. I went to Occidental College. So at Occidental College, you studied classical music if you were going to study music. So I was in the choir, which I had very high expectations for. But

unfortunately, my high school choir was this amazing nationally ranked choir and we toured and all kinds of stuff. And when I got to college, I was actually quite let down and quit. And then I discovered I also had vocal nodules, which I was like, well, I guess I'm just not meant to be a singer. I'm just, you know, and so I, I stopped. And when it came time for me to switch schools, I wasn't allowed to double major. So I'm just, you know, and so I stopped. And when it came time for me to switch schools, I wasn't allowed to double major. So I'm like, I'm just going to do the psychology thing, get my degree, you know, and kind of do the right thing. So in the back of your mind, had you kind of closed the book on music as a meaningful part of your life at that point? No, no, I hadn't.

But I was very conflicted about it. You know, I was still going to every concert I could. You know, I would even go like when I first moved to L.A., I mean, I was still going to every concert I could, you know, I, I would even go like when I first moved to LA, I mean, I would go to concerts by myself. I'd go hang out on the sunset strip by myself. Cause I didn't have any friends who listened to that kind of music. Everyone was into like Depeche mode and whatever, you know, like stuff I was not into. So I would go to- I was the weirdo who was into Depeche mode.

That wasn't weird. That was normal. And Zeppelin. I was like,o who was into Depeche Mode. That wasn't weird. That was normal. And the Cure and Zeppelin. I was in that. And Dylan. That's awesome. Right. I was a DJ also way back in the day, so I would play anything. My rule was if it's good, it's good. Yeah.

Well, I think that's good. I was very, very narrow-minded as a teenager in terms of music. I was a weird musical. I don't think it's that weird as a teenager to be narrow-minded, but I was like really into metal. And part of it, I think, was also as a girl who played guitar, which was really uncommon back then. I wanted to be tough, you know? It was like, I wanted to be tough and I listened to metal and I'm this girl who can rock and, you know. So, you know, I didn't like pop music.

But I did love Prince. I mean, there were things I did love. You have to love Prince. I know. I mean, what a guitar virtuoso. So who were your – because I know, like, so this was the 80s-ish? Yeah. Right.

So that – 80s, 90s, yeah. Who were the – wait, was that Lita Ford or – I guess. There was nobody. Right. No, I mean, Jennifer Batten with Michael Jackson, but I didn't like Michael Jackson. Like, that wasn't my thing. That was pop music. Right. No, I mean, Jennifer Batten with Michael Jackson, but I didn't like Michael Jackson. Like, that wasn't my thing.

That was pop music. Yeah. You know, I mean, so it really wasn't. And Jennifer Batten, like, I wasn't that good. So I wanted to be able to, like, rip, like, Yngwie or whatever. But, like, I never got to that point. My style was much more sloppy, like Jimmy Page and Joe Perry, like my favorite, you know, real melodic players. But I couldn't play like that at that time. I just, I was a wannabe, you know, and, you know,

I would learn stuff and I could play riffs and I could play songs, but soloing was a really big block for me mentally. And I really had this feeling that I just, I couldn't do it. And it just did not occur to me that I could if I kept working at it. But, you know, it wasn't until much later when I had one of my many guitar playing boyfriends gave me some advice that really helped me break through that. What was it? You've got to be willing to suck. And not in that way, but you've got to be willing to like really suck. And, you know, for somebody who's a perfectionist and who has an ear,

it's very painful. And I think this is why adults have such a hard time picking up instruments because- And picking up anything. Yeah, anything. Anything new, that takes time. Because you can tell you suck. Like when you're a kid, sometimes you don't know where everybody else sucks too, and it's not that big a deal. But when you know that you suck, it is so painful. And I quit playing guitar several times as a young adult. Even though I still really wanted to do it, I was so down on myself.

And I just didn't think it was possible for me to get good until he said that to me. And I was like, he's like, you have to be willing to suck. And you have to play through it and play through it. And you're going to suck and you're going to hate it. And eventually, all of a sudden, you're going to be good. And he was right. I mean, it took a long time and most people, it's just, it's very painful to listen to yourself. We're like, oh, this is terrible. This is not where I want to be. So here's my curiosity when you were doing that. Cause, cause, so I've never

played through the point where I'm, cause I still suck. I rarely ever pick up the guitar. You know, like I was playing when I was in sixth grade and I was doing good. And then I just kind of stopped. And it's one of these few things that looking back, I probably regret actually. It's never too late to start again. I know, I know. We're probably going to have that conversation too. And it's funny too, because you walked in today and you pull out this beautiful guitar

and you pick it up and you tune it and you hand to me. And I'm like, and you're sitting there, and I know you're a badass player. And I got this gorgeous guitar in my hands, and I start to strum a little bit. And I'm like, I would love to just play, but there's people in the room, and I suck. I know how that feels. I've been there. Even now, I'm like, here's this amazing opportunity to just play a beautiful guitar. And I just gave it back to you because I was like, I just don't want to go there right now. And I'm like, I totally messed up.

No, yeah. Yes. But if you put me in a room with people that I'm really intimidated by, and there's lots of them, I have the same feeling. There's a huge struggle for me. You know, sometimes I'll push past that. And sometimes I won't, you know, especially as a professional, like I don't want to like, you know, the whole fear of like messing up.

Oh, my God. And I think that's something that really stopped me. And I think, you know, we'll get into this, you know, guitar for quote unquote for girls book that I wrote. But, you know, people ask what's the difference for guitar for girls as opposed to guitar for anybody. I don't like thinking there is a difference, and there isn't in the way I would teach somebody, but there are definitely struggles that I find, at least for myself when I was a young girl, and I see in girls today that we seem to be more self-conscious and afraid about screwing up, where it seems like young boys, I don't know if they're encouraged more to just get out there,

and who cares if you're great or not, just have a good time. I know as a girl myself, I was just petrified of making a fool out of myself and not being perfect in front of people. And I think that's really unhealthy. I'd love to somehow be a part of stopping that. And essentially, I had a chance to talk to Caroline Paul, who wrote this, what is the name of her book? Like Gutsy Girls, something like that.

But she did some research. She also, she said, you know, like the average boy when he's younger is sort of like told to go out there and risk. Yes. And the average girl when she's younger is kind of like cautioned. Play it safe. Be careful. Against risk.

And I've never validated that. But, you know, just intuitively, I think it probably kind of think we've probably both seen that. But I'm curious too, do you reach a point? So you were like, you love to play, you're half decent, but you're looking at all these people and feeling intimidated. Was there a conversation in your head that was kind of like, it's not just that I don't want to suck for my own ego, but because I'm the woman in a world where there are very few of us. Yeah, I mean, I played a part. Like, did that – A little part, yeah, for sure.

And I always was conscious of that. I'm not now because I have much more confidence than I did back then. But yeah, and I was always self-conscious as a woman representing guitar players, especially when I was younger, especially when I'd walk into a guitar center. I mean, I literally had this experience where it's a little bit better now sometimes, but I walked into a guitar center and I wasn't sure what kinds of strings I wanted. And so I was like, I asked a question like about the strings and he's like, Oh, what kind of guitar does your boyfriend play?

And I was like, fuck you. Like this is not for my boyfriend. Just because I don't know what I want doesn't mean that I'm not a guitar player. You are such a mess. Anyway, that was like, I'll never forget that.

And I'm sure part of that had to do with me being unsure in the way I asked my question. But I also have, when I was shopping for Ms. Bella over here, my guitar that I have now, I was shopping for her last year and I walked into a guitar center and there was this guy. He's like, you know, older than me, working at a guitar center. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but like he's a frustrated musician and whatever. And he's condescending to me without, like, I felt like going, my book is over there, by the way. Like, dude, just, I'm looking for, you know, a guitar, please. He's like, keep up with the songwriting thing. I'm like, oh, please. You know, it's amazing. Like even now

when there's so many more. So deep down there, are those moments kind of fun when then you pick up a guitar and then you just completely. and somebody's jaw drops on the floor? Sometimes. But usually it's just annoying. Like, it was fun because I had friends with me who knew how I can play. But like, I was in there shopping for an acoustic guitar, which is still kind of stereotypical for a girl, you know? I was like, you know, like, yeah, I can play my Les Paul like a badass.

But right now I'm shopping for an acoustic guitar and I'm going to play acoustic guitar, whatever. And I hate being stereotypical. Like I've always kind of chafed against that. Just, I don't know why. I just always wanted to be tough and I wanted to be different, I guess. Maybe because I'm not that different, but I don't know. Do you really feel that way still? That I'm not that different? That you're not that different, yeah. I don't know. Do you really feel that way still? That I'm not that different?

That you're not that different, yeah. I don't know. Maybe I am different. I mean, but I feel like everybody I know is different. Everybody's weird in their own way. Everybody's – New York and L.A., it's pretty much true. Yeah.

I mean, I live in L.A. and I'm surrounded – my husband's a magician. So, I mean, that's pretty weird, you know. That definitely is on a different scale. Yeah. We have friends who are, yeah, pretty different. So, I guess maybe everybody I know is different. I don't know a lot of people that are quote unquote normal. But really, people seem, I mean, I'm a podcast addict.

I listen to all kinds of storytelling podcasts and people telling their stories. And people seem very similar way down inside. I totally agree. But I think it's unusual that you see somebody actually embrace something that's been calling them for a really long time in their lives, especially when it's not the mainstream and especially when it's not so easy to look down the road and kind of see like, oh, okay, here are like 20 people who are similar enough to me who've done like there's kind of a path a clear path there's no path and that's the hardest thing about doing what i do i think musicians in general but especially what i've done because i haven't chosen maybe that was just not smart on my part but i never really thought you know it's so much more difficult than school like that would have been so easy for me to go get a phd in and become a therapist. Like, so easy. And this, like taking a year off after I got out of school and getting in a band and getting a part-time job and like, you know, learning how to be good and learning how to be in a band. There are so many lessons you cannot learn other than by doing. It's like being an entrepreneur. It's very similar. And there's no way to know what to do. I mean, only now after I've been at it for like 20 years that do I feel like, okay, I'm doing some things now that I want to keep doing and I can see how

to make that happen. And the landscape is completely different than it was 20 years ago. You know, there is no path. But then I think, really, is there? I mean, yeah, there are paths if you're going to be a lawyer, maybe. But things change so much in our lives anyway. But you know, I mean, the interesting thing about music to me, a lot of interesting things. I've kind of been obsessed with various elements. But it's that it's definitely and this is probably across the arts in general, is that it's one of those things where, like you said, most people feel like they suck.

It takes years and years and years to develop a level of craft where you feel like you're half decent. Yeah. for the art and you stay in it, but the vast majority of people never get to a point in their lives where they actually figure out how to make it their main thing. Yeah. Especially now. Yeah. Yeah. Do you think it's harder or easier now?

I don't know. I mean, I think it's kind of both. But overall, I think for independent artists, it's much easier now. But it's very hard because there's so many. There's so, so, so many, but every artist that I know, and I'm not at the superstar level, obviously every artist I know has about at least five different streams of income and different things that they're doing, whether it's all in music or in music and something else. Everybody I know has so many different jobs that they're doing because you have to.

That's just the reality of a music career. It's like a friend of mine who's actually I have two friends who are both actors and they're also both audio book readers. Oh, that's so cool. But it is. It's interesting how you can piece it all together. There's like the two sides. Now a million people can do it because the tools are so readily available. And at the same time, right. Then it means that if you really want to put it in the word to be good. So I'm curious, even back when you quote sucked using

your own words, not passing judgment, could you hear in your head what you wanted to play? No, not really. No, I mean, it wasn't that. It was just I could hear how other people played and I wanted to play like them. I just wanted to be fluid. That was the way, you know, I wrote like many years ago, I wrote, I had five goals in my life. I don't remember what they all were, but I have it somewhere folded up somewhere. I wrote it down and hid it away. And, you know, every once in a while I run into it, but one of it, the, the one that was the last one that I was to actually achieve was the hardest one was to just be able to fluidly play guitar and, you know, not play a whole bunch of wrong notes.

You know, that was the, the really tough one for me, For some reason, you know, being able to take a great guitar solo was like the way I would judge myself. And I did judge myself. I mean, I was pretty hard. Mayday, mayday. We've been compromised. The pilot's a hitman. I knew you were going to be fun. On January 24th.

Tell me how to fly this thing. Mark Wahlberg. You know what the difference between me and you is? You're going to die. Don't shoot him. We need him. Y'all need a pilot. The Apple Watch Series 10 is here. It has the biggest display ever.

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Charge time and actual results will vary. Harsh. But how I would judge, you know, if I had, you know, made it to the level I really wanted to or not. So I'm not saying it's healthy. I'm not saying anyone else should. I try to not, you know, not be so harsh on myself anymore, but it's tough. I think it's like something either you're born with or you learn or both. And, you know, I have parents who are both pretty hard on themselves. So I think I learned it and I was, you know,

ingrained with it. All right. So now you mentioned your parents. Curious what the conversation was when you made the decision. You're like, you know what? I'm not going to do my PhD and be a therapist. I'm going to play guitar. Yeah.

I mean, granted, I know it was like a past life, but I'm just kind of always curious how people navigate like that. It was hard. I mean, my parents were nervous about it for obvious reasons. I mean, I did have a college degree, so that was helpful in terms of being able to support myself, which was nice. But my mom was definitely initially more supportive in the whole follow your dream type of idea. And my dad was very skeptical up until a few years ago. I mean, now that, you know, I have my own business and I have this book, you know, it was very validating to have a major music publisher publish a book that I wrote. That was like, to him, you know, it's that kind of

others validating what you do really helps with the parental units. So that was very helpful. And then also I'm a lot better now than I was 20 years ago. Like I'm a lot better. So he has seen me perform and he's like, oh, she's actually pretty good. You know, and now he's really proud of me, but I think it's because I've been able to, you know, I've been doing this for a long time now and I'm able to make it on my own. And he's like, well, you're making it on your own. He's also older and wiser. And I think he appreciates it. Money isn't everything. And stability is really important in life. But money isn't everything.

Yeah. As a parent, I want my kid to be happy. I also want my kid to be safe. We so often equate money with security and safety. Well, and it's true. I mean, to a certain degree, it's true. And I have friends who are, quote unquote, starving artists or struggling artists. And it's really hard to watch.

And in whatever ways I can, I try to help support my friends and just other musicians in really erasing that poverty mentality. Because I don't think just because an artist, you do not have to be struggling. I really am a firm believer in that. So what do you think is the difference? Do you think you could take one of your friends who's struggling without any change in their skill level? And if they were able to change their mindset, their lens, something like a set of other things. I'm always curious what – so in a space like art, music, painting, whatever it may be, you have a small number of people who are at the top who are making gobs of money and they're famous. And then you have the vast majority of people who are – I don't want to say at the bottom, but they're just – they're not coming close to taking care of themselves, even though they're spending time doing what they love.

And then there's like this middle group of people who are doing okay. You know, like you're supporting yourself. You're like a workaday artist. Yeah, the working artist. Everything's okay, which I guess is sort of like, yeah. That's where I am, yeah. What has to happen to go from being in that place where you're not capable of getting by to going to the work-a-day artist level? Oh, I think anybody who pretends to have the answer to that, I think, is probably trying to sell it.

It's a big question, right? Well, it is a big question. I think luck has to do with it, which I hate to say, but I do think luck has to do with it. And also what you're willing to do. I mean, one of the reasons that I'm not struggling like some of my friends is because I with, you know, I co-founded a music licensing company 10 years ago and that has enabled me to pursue my art, you know? And so some people would say, well, you're not really doing, you know, performing full time. I was like, well, you know, I'm an entrepreneur. I'm a musician. I, you know, I have a lot of different things I'm doing in music. So I was willing to start a company, which is kind of a weird thing,

you know, that a lot of musicians might not be willing to do. There are other people who, you know, have a day job. You know, there are people that I play with who have a corporate job at Guitar Center, you know, and for them, it enables them to play. Now, you know, there's, you know, I designed my life so that my quote unquote day job is my own company and I can work from wherever I am in the world while I'm on tour. That was very conscious. You know, I, I never gave up the idea of myself being a touring and professional artist. That's always been first in my identity. But, you know, at first it was a real struggle. Like, am I, you know, what, what is this that I'm doing? But, but now I'm so, so, so grateful because it does give me some stability and it enables me to not take any of the crappy

gigs that I used to do just for the money. And that's huge. For me, it's important. For other people, it's more important to identify as someone who only plays music. So they'll play a four-hour cover gig at a wedding, whereas I would rather do something horrible to myself. Like that is not, I'd rather, you know, sit at home and work for a couple hours on my computer with my cat next to me, you know, doing my quote unquote job and then go out and play as the, you know, featured guest on a, you know, storytelling podcast that night, you know, for nothing because I can afford to. But now I'm playing for writers and people like my tribe of people. And that's what lights me up rather than being background music at a wedding, which sucks my spirit.

Yeah. And like you said, everybody makes that decision differently, but it is really interesting because there's, if you had asked me five years ago, you know, should everybody go out and take that thing that they're mad about and make it like the absolute thing that they make it their living for the rest of their lives? I probably would have said, yeah, if you can do that, do that. And I'm actually, I don't necessarily agree with that anymore. I don't know what's happened. I've seen enough people and had enough conversations where I've seen people living lives where they've got like either a work a day gig or they're an entrepreneur and it's okay. It's not like, it's not the most awesome thing in the world, but it it's fine and it's giving them the cash they need

to be completely fine so that when they yeah and they have plenty of time left over to do their art right and when they do it they don't have to think about whether it's putting money in the bank they don't have to feel like they're doing something they do it just because it's they want to do it yeah and you get to make choices very differently i'm like you know what that's just another way to live a good life that It's very different. Yeah, it is very different. And I think a lot of it has to do with ego. Tell me about that.

Well, because for many years, I was of the mentality, I will not ever do. You know, after I was able to quit my part-time day job that I had, for several years, I was just performing. And I was performing at like, quote unquote, new thought churches, you know, and like, trying out different things in order to make money playing my own music, playing at malls, you know, doing things like that, having session singing gigs that were very far away, and maybe not super, super fun. But it got to the point wherein I was taking all these gigs and running around town and not really pursuing my artistic goals of my own songs and, you know, all the time or writing my own songs and trying to figure out how can I write a positive song because these people want to hear positive music. I'm like, oh, gosh, you know, like maybe that's not where I'm at. I'm really, you know, this is a little too sappy for me and that's not really where I belong. So eventually, I mean, it took me a long time to kind of figure out, okay, I think I'm going to dial back performing at those places and I'm going to only do

maybe club gigs or support these other artists that I really love. I mean, now I tour with other artists as a hired gun and I love doing that if it's the right artist, you know? So it's different ways of making money with music that, and I think over time that changes, like what's true to you changes because who you are changes and, you know, what satisfies your ego, you know, for a while it was like, well, anything that's me performing and singing and playing guitar and making money, that means I'm successful. And now I don't feel that way. Now I feel like, well, I feel successful no matter what because I know I'm good now. I finally am at peace with myself so I don't have to prove it to myself by where I'm making my money. And sure, I'm making money as a performer and I'm making money with my business and I'm making

money with sessions and licensing, but I don't have to prove to myself and my ego that I'm worthy. And that's a really big shift. And I think that's enabled me to kind of just let go a little bit and just be like, all right, if this is working, if this is how you're enjoying spending your time, I mean, time is the most valuable asset any of us have. And we don't know how much we have. What happened in your mind? What switch was flipped that made you know you were good? There are a lot of people who play tennis, guitar, you know, paint, sing their entire lives regularly and never improve. But you like came into this saying like, I suck, which probably wasn't true.

You're probably like very good, but you weren't at a level where your idols were like the people. So, you know, my curiosity is always, you know, there's you could have just committed to playing an hour a day or whatever it was for years and years and years and years. But the fact that you actually improved dramatically suggests that you did something different. What was it that you actually did? I took the areas where I sucked and I worked on them, which is very painful. I think a lot of people maybe will just play for an hour a day and not. It's that whole kind of intentional practice and practicing what you're not good at. I remember the first time I practiced with a metronome, I thought my metronome was broken and it was not broken.

Need to get a replacement. Yeah. I think my metronome's broken. My boyfriend's time's like, no, it's just, you need to practice with a metronome. I was like, oh, that's painful. So being able to really take it in like, okay, this is a weak area and let's work on it. I was told when I was first in my friend Vicky's band, she's now my bass player. She's this badass bass player. She's amazing. And many, many years ago, I was in her band. She was singing and

writing songs and playing guitar. And she's like, I thought playing funky guitar meant using a wah pedal. I had no clue. And she said, you need to swallow a James Brown record. You need to. And so I did. And I learned how to play every guitar part on the best of James Brown, the big box set. And it took a while, but now I'm pretty funky. And, and it was hard, like, and it was hard to hear that you are not good. You are not good at this. You need to learn how to do this. It was very painful, but you know, that's how you get good. And that's how you get proud of yourself. And that's how you build a self-esteem. And I think it just took many years of getting better, you know, and as a singer, the same thing.

I mean, I'm doing things now that I couldn't do just a few years ago. What kept you in it? I mean, because each one of those moments where somebody says you suck or you experience something where somebody says, you don't know, like what, you know, there are two responses, right? One is, all right, so I don't and I'm never going to. So why bother? Like I look at the people.

But that was my response several times. So like where do you find the grit to keep coming back and back and back and back and back? Is that, do you have any sense for that? Yeah, I was absolutely miserable and depressed and hated my life if I wasn't pursuing music. I was really depressed for most of my life, really depressed. And, you know, I now have this philosophy that comes from a Thelma and Louise, the movie Thelma and Louise. And it's from a movie, but it's so true. It's you get what you settle for.

And I could not stand to settle for being less of a musician than I wanted to be because I was so miserable when I did put down the guitar for several years. I would go to concerts and I'd be super jealous. And that's a horrible feeling to have. And it's not that I don't still get jealous of people, but now when I get jealous, I'm like, oh, that's something that you might want to try doing because it's now a little bit more motivational. But it took me a long time to get there. At first, it discouraged me and I put down my guitar and I stopped singing. And it wasn't until I recognized like, okay, well, you could just be miserable and depressed for the rest of your life. Is that what you want? And I just, I guess I'm somewhere under there an optimist. Like I really want to be happy because I mean,

it's no fun going through life depressed and feeling like you suck. So I was like, well, I can keep trying, you know? And once I did get that really good piece of advice from that boyfriend, like you've got to be willing to suck and then you will get good. And I did notice it starting to happen. That was encouraging. Oh, I can get better. I can get better. I don't have to be born with this talent. Like that whole, the T word talent. You know, I think that's so damaging, especially to young people. You're so talented. It's like, well, I wasn't this talented five years ago. People come up to me like, I wish I had your voice. It's like, yeah, well, I didn't have my voice. I worked my ass off for this voice. And I still do because there's still a lot of stuff I

can't do. And there probably always will be. But now I think it's fun because I think it's fun to try. And I'm okay with being who I am which I wasn't for a long time yeah and you also have a history now where like you've actually seen where you've been yes see where you are now and it's like your own experience proves that an astonishing amount of growth is possible yeah and that's so you don't have to just go on faith anymore exactly and I'm somebody who I was raised an atheist. I had no faith. I still pretty much have not a lot of faith in lots of things. And that was a really hard thing for me. And that was one of my questions in my life. And I don't think I've still answered it yet, but

how do you have faith in something you can't see? And I think that was something that held me back in terms, you know, you hear on the Grammys and the Oscars, you know, I want to thank God. And I want to thank, you know, people who put their faith in something else outside of themselves and they just know they can achieve what seems impossible. I didn't have that. And I think that's why I didn't go for it. I didn't have any faith and I didn't have any proof that I could do it. You know, now at least I have a little bit of proof like, oh, I can get better, you know well it's like now you have i mean you have faith based on the fact that like your own abilities your own work ethic has proven it like from the inside whether you

you know somebody may look at that and say there was divine inspiration that you didn't don't even know is there but you can at least look at yourself and say you know what whatever it was like i've seen in my own experience that i started in one place and i worked relentlessly. And what a lot of other people thought wasn't possible, apparently, at least for me, is. So what happens if I keep with that work ethic? Right. And you don't know. And that's one of the beautiful and frustrating things about a career in the arts is you don't ever know. I mean, people ask me, well, how did you... After I had this book come out, people are like, how did you get a book deal? I'm like, I don't know.

They called me because they knew that I was a girl who played guitar. Like, I don't have any advice for anybody who wants to write a music book. Right. You know, because things happen once you, you know, the more you work, the more you work is definitely a thing in the arts. And the more gigs you do, the more people see you who knows what they do. And they offer you opportunities that you never would have imagined. I mean, most of the opportunities that I list in my bio were not things that I auditioned for or hoped for. They were just things like I got called the night before a session and ended up singing on a

Neil Young record. Like that's because I was singing. It was only because I was singing and people knew that I was a singer. That was only because I was singing and people knew that I was a singer. That was not because I was auditioning for anything. A lot of things I auditioned for I didn't get, you know? So it's like you just, you have so little control over that, you know? It's so interesting too though, because across a lot of fields, you know, so I speak. And there are folks who say that if you want to break into the field, you know, you should always value yourself and never, ever, ever speak for free. And I actually disagree with that.

I think like, A, I think free is a complete foul. It's never free. It's always about like the bundle of cash and non-cash compensations. And there's like real exposure. There's fake exposure. But like you said, like, you know, two things. One, you just want to play more because you want to get better. You know, every time you get a chance to step on stage or whatever it is, you're getting a little bit better. The other thing is like you said, you know, you're putting yourself out there and the more you're out there, the more you're in the game

and the more people, you know, you're more top of mind, you know, and it just bubbles up. Yes, that's so true. That's so true. And I mean, especially when it comes to performing and speaking, you know, if you're not going out there, like you can practice thinking, you can practice speaking all you want in your bedroom and you get a little flash of panic and your stomach turns over, you can't practice that at home. You know, you need to practice that in front of people. And if you're, you know, I've done a lot of, you know, quote unquote radio shows that maybe went out to two people or three people. But it was really good practice for me to be, to have headphones on and to know what my voice sounds like and to be answering questions and to not say um, um, um, um a million times. It doesn't make you perfect, but it helps when you get into a situation where you're performing for hundreds of people and you're speaking. I spoke for the first time ever last week, like speaking and being a keynote presenter. And that

was really exciting, but it was something I had never done before. And it was very helpful to have been speaking to people in different kinds of capacities. And if I was not willing to do things for free, I would have no experience and I would have been petrified. Yeah. I think we just need to stop saying it's free and understand and just look at and realistically assess, you know, like what is the value here for me, regardless of whether there's cash on the table or not, like, is there, what's the genuine value? Cause yeah, it's just, you know, there's value in having somebody bring together three people, if it's three people so that you can practice what you can't practice alone. There's value in just being out and about.

And who are you hanging out with and who are you meeting? I mean, I first heard you speak at the World Domination Summit. And I can imagine speaking with the other people who are speaking there, you get to meet the most incredible people. And you're hanging out having dinner with them and you're introduced as a speaker to the other speakers. And there's a lot of value in that. Yeah, totally agree. I actually have a friend who would speak at really big events without being paid almost entirely based on who was going to be in the green room with him. I think that's brilliant.

And who he would meet. And it's all, I don't want to go out there and say like, people should just completely never be compensated in a meaningful way. But at the same time, I think I kind of feel like the pendulum has swung to the level where people are like, I'm never stepping onto a stage or in a room or like moving unless there's money on the table. And I just think, man, there's so many opportunities that people miss by sort of taking that mindset sometimes. Yeah, I agree. And you know, when I meet, I know I've had the opportunity to meet and work with some artists who are at these huge high levels, you know, maybe I'll someday be lucky to attain, but they're much more rich and much more famous than I am. And they will do gigs for fun sometimes, you know, if it's the right mix, like you say, or if it's for a charity that they really believe in.

They're not so consumed always with the money, at least in, you know, the singer-songwriter arena and maybe the rock arena. Maybe it's different in different arenas. But a lot of artists that I really, truly respect and look up to, it's not all about the money. That's not why they're in it. And I am the first person to say, earn money, get paid for your art. I'm adamant about that. You value yourself. And I'm also really into doing things for the joy of it. Because that's why I started playing music. I didn't start playing music to be rich and famous because otherwise, I'm a huge failure. And I don't feel like a failure at all. Now I feel really successful because I'm great at what I do and

it brings me all over the world and I meet amazing people and I get incredible opportunities. And it's not directly correlated to my bank statement. It's partially correlated. It is partially correlated, but not completely, not 100%. No, I think the big takeaway is, yes, we're saying you should be fairly compensated. Like whatever it is, at whatever period you are, you know, like in your development as an artist, expect fair compensation. And at the same time, the mix of what's fair is going to change radically as you move throughout your career. You brought up the book a couple of times.

So tell me what this is and how it came about. Yeah. So this book, it's a book called Guitar for Girls and it was put out by Hal Leonard, which is a major music publisher. They, you know, it's in all put out by Hal Leonard, which is a major music publisher. They, you know, it's in all the guitar centers and stuff, which is super cool. But when they first called me about, they were like, well, we have this idea. We want someone to write a book called Guitar for Girls. Would you be interested? And I'm a feminist. Like I am for girls. Like why Guitar for Girls? That's kind of my first thing.

And that's what a lot of people ask me. But the more I thought about it, I thought, well, if someone's going to write this book and it's going to get a big platform. So it might as well be me, somebody who cares about what I say to girls. And there was already a competing book out there that I was not very fond of. Well, let's just put it that way by their main competing publisher that was very girly. And it's all about playing guitars that are shaped like flowers and hearts. And I mean, I love purple sparkly guitars. Do not get me wrong. I still want a sparkly guitar. But to me, I really wanted to present songs that were empowering with messages that

weren't just about, you know, finding my Prince Charming, you know, which is kind of how I was raised. You know, I mean, I guess you're just to be fun. Tell me how to fly this thing. You know what the difference between me and you is? You're going to die. Don't shoot him, we need him! Y'all need a pilot? The Apple Watch Series 10 is here. It has the biggest display ever.

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Charge time and actual results will vary. I'm hopefully, you know, I really just wanted to, I really wanted to write the book that I wished I'd had when I was 12. So I put in all this kind, you know, these pieces of advice that I got, like, you've got to be willing to suck. And I say, you are going to suck. You're not going to be very good at first. It's okay. That's perfectly normal.

Just go with it and don't be afraid. Just keep playing. And this advice, that would have kept me from quitting. And I searched for pieces of advice from female musicians, singers, and guitar players. And I included songs all by female artists and almost all by female songwriters, including Ani DiFranco, who is one of my biggest biggest heroes and the song that I made sure I put in there is a song called Not a Pretty Girl and the first line is I'm not a pretty girl that is not what I do and to me that's just something I just want every girl to hear like you don't have to do that pretty girl thing if you don't want to you know and um you know things that I didn't really

quite learn but I hope the next generation learns you, and has an easier time than I did. That's awesome. So I ended up writing it and I'm really proud of it. And now it's out there and, you know, people say, oh, are you going to write a follow up? And no, I don't feel the need to. Like I said what I needed to say. Right. You did the book.

I did the book. I'm good with it. I'm really happy. I'm really proud of it. And I actually find when I sell it at shows, the people who are buying it are women in their 30s and 40s who played a little bit and then were discouraged. And now they're picking it up again. Oh, how cool is that? I love that. Yeah, and I get these emails from women who are like, I really just – it feels so good to be able to pick it up again. And, you know, I just regret having put it down.

But it's like never, it's never too late to start again and to just baby steps. Yeah. I think that's so important. We started talking just even now. And I'm somebody who thinks about this stuff a lot. Right, right. It's my job is to kind of like to let go and just be where you are. Yeah.

And I feel it too. Yeah. And I would love, I have my favorite, you know, like Stevie Ray go and just be where you are. Yeah. And I feel it too. Yeah. You know, and I would love, I have my favorite, you know, like Stevie Ray Vaughan is God to me. Yeah, yeah. There are people where I just, I listen and I still just close my eyes and just tears come because I'm like, oh my God, it's just so astonishing. To be able to play a tenth as good as that is something I would love to do, yet I don't pick up the guitar and do it. So just to hear the message, I think, is important that it's never too late because I think we probably do feel at some point, hmm. Yeah, and it's just not.

Like in 10 years, most likely you will still be here. And either you'll be a badass guitar player or you won't. And it doesn't take an hour a day. That is the thing that I think people think. It's going to take so much time and so much effort. And it doesn't, especially in the beginning, like just set a timer on your iPhone for 15 minutes and just do something that's fun. Don't make it work. Just make it fun just to get the guitar in your hands because you know and i'm somebody who has struggled with i mean it's not like i'm dying to practice every day that is not like i make myself take gigs so that i will practice because i don't

because i want to be on stage and do an awesome job you know i will take gigs to make myself practice because you know if i'm left to my own devices, I'm just like, oh, whatever. You know, I don't have to perform, so I don't need to practice. But once you pick up the guitar and you're having fun, you'll find, oh, wow, I didn't just spend 15 minutes. I spent 20, right? I spent half an hour. You know, but it's that thing, just a few minutes a day. Yeah.

I'm going to follow up with you on this. I know. I promise. I have my new accountability partner. That's right. We all need them. Yeah. So you brought up something also.

There's a good chance you're going to be here 10 years from now. So you've had a really interesting moment a couple years back that made you really come face to face with that. Yeah. Yeah. It's so weird. I'm still like, it's so weird. So almost three years ago now, two and a half years ago, I found out rather suddenly, I mean, completely out of the blue that I have this incurable form of cancer and it's called Waldenstrom's macroglobulinemia. It's a type of lymphoma and it's very slow moving. But at the time I found out, I was pretty sick and I had no idea. Like I had no idea. I was getting a blood test because I wanted long-term care insurance, life insurance. I was trying to be a responsible

adult. And I was telling my husband, you better drink a lot of water before this blood test. And you don't exercise and you don't eat right. And here I go, Ms. Yoga and eating healthy LA person. And my insurance guy calls me. He's like, yeah, Andrew's fine, but you, they're not going to insure you. There's something really wrong with you. You need to go to the doctor. And I was just like, what are you talking about? There's something wrong with your test. No, there was nothing wrong with the test so i ended up getting treated with a pretty mild form of chemotherapy but it it really it changed everything and it and it didn't change everything it was really it's a mind fuck to you know excuse that that's really just what

it is it's total mind fuck i got a cancer that affects old white men who are like 65 years and older. And I'm not, you know. And they can't say, you know, because you were a smoker or you were this or that. It's just like shit happens. And you have this weird cancer. And it's really rare. And we don't really, you know, like you go on the Internet and it says, oh, you know, median survival is 12 years, which now I'm going to live longer than 12 years for sure. But it's scary and it's weird. And as somebody who was raised as an atheist and

being afraid of death and kind of morbid, it was really scary. And it's strange. And I've been public about it, which not everybody who gets a cancer diagnosis is. And now I can appreciate why, because you get a lot of unsolicited advice that isn't always very smart, especially being in L.A. You know, you get a lot of interesting health advice. You know, I went through my treatment, and I'm doing great now. And it really changed me, and in some ways it didn't. I was already going for my dream. It wasn't this wake-up call like, well, I'm in this horrible job that I hate and now I'm going to really pursue what I love. I was already pursuing what I love.

Some people say, oh, you get cancer because you're stuffing down what you really want. I wasn't. I was living my dream. And I got sick. It was very strange. So how did it change you then? Well, it really brought my family closer together. Everybody came out and supported me just incredibly. I mean, it was amazing. My mom flew down to LA for every treatment that I had.

And she herself is a lymphoma survivor. I blame her, you know, by the way, for the cancer. But she came down and supported me. You know, my dad came out to California. My sister came down. You know, it really, people just came out from everywhere to support me, which was really wonderful. And I had to slow down. I was for, you know, I'm a workaholic, like I'm still a recovering workaholic, but it made me stop. I was slammed. Stop. Like I had to just stop like, okay. The only symptom I had was this pretty devastating anemia, which just exhausts you. And I just, I was just drinking coffee like there was no tomorrow because I had no idea.

And I would be exhausted in the middle of the day. And there was the only time, you know, and I had bruises all over. And I just thought I was just klutzy in a hurry all the time. But I was exhausted. And I remember once before my diagnosis complaining to my husband, like, oh, there's no good reason for me to be so tired at 2 in the afternoon. He's like, just take a nap. You're fine, honey. You're just really busy. But I was really anemic. And that's why I was so tired.

And so while I was going through treatment, you know, chemotherapy knocks you on your ass. And I had spent two weeks out of every month in bed. I could not get up. And I had spent two weeks out of every month in bed. I could not get up and people had to get me water and people had to get me food. And, and I, I could not be this strong, independent person that I had been. I really had to let go and not achieve and not accomplish and just relax. And, and it was good for me. You know, it really helped me be less hard on myself. And now one of the things that has changed is, you know, if I need to take a nap, I take a freaking nap. Like I, because I still have cancer. Like I'm much more kind to myself now than I was back then. Like back then, I would drive myself more. And our culture values that so much. It values pushing through adversity

and driving yourself and achieving. And life is just not all about that. But it's so hard to see that. I knew life was not about that. I was lucky to be married to a wonderful guy who was not a workaholic and likes to relax and take things easy. And I didn't always appreciate that. I can't say I appreciate it as much as I probably should even now, but it helped. It really helped. And just being kinder to myself, I really needed, I need to be, and I think a lot of people need to be kinder to themselves. Yeah. I would agree with that. I think it's also interesting because it's, I think it's more apparent if somebody goes through something like this and they were a workaholic doing something that they weren't all that interested in. It's a different equation

when like the thing that's driving you is something that you're actually like madly driven to do because you love it. Yeah, exactly. So it's like, okay, so I actually need even working fierce amount of time doing something that totally lights me up can also cause harm. Yeah. That's a different thought process. It's very different.

It's very different. And it did feel good to not work so hard. And especially in something like music where, I'm sorry, the amount of hard work you do can have an effect on how good you are, but it cannot have much of an effect on how successful you are to the outside world. Just because you're working hard doesn't mean you're necessarily working smart or you're getting whatever quote unquote lucky breaks you get. And, you know, I do believe that a certain amount of working hard is really important because in getting out there is important to getting quote unquote lucky breaks.

But there are, there is luck. There really is. And the older I get and the more I see, you know, some people are born into families that they're very lucky to be born into. And some people grow up in cities they're very lucky to be living in. And some people aren't. And, you know, no matter how hard you work, like, you don't have to – just because you work yourself to the bone does not guarantee you're going to be successful. And, you know, you hear these things. You know, I am slightly or more than slightly morbid. And I love reading about people like, what do they say on their deathbeds? And what is so important? And, you know, you hear these things, you know, I am slightly or more than slightly morbid and I love reading about people like, what do they say on their deathbeds and what is so important? And, you know, you always hear that cliche thing like, nobody wishes they worked more, you know.

Even when you're doing something that you love, I mean, it's just, yeah, what else is in your life besides work? Yeah, I think it's good to reflect. We're actually coming around on the hour. You want to play something? Fast, fast. I know, it goes really quickly. All right, I'll take off my headphones for this. All right, let's see this one.

So this is a song, it's going to be on my next record, which I'm about halfway through recording right now. It's called You Get What You Settle For. I'm talking about my philosophy from way back when. Yeah, this is it. Here we go. One, two. Yeah.

Yeah. All the years daddy told me Don't look to the silver screen And they'll say about anything Except for what they mean Can blame a man for everything But who let him through the door? Baby, baby, baby, no Forget what you're settled for

Hear all they say But believe what they do Won't take all that long, a true color gonna bleed on through Complain about him endlessly, but you beg him back for more Baby, baby, baby, no Forget what you're set up for Whoa, whoa Forget what you're set up for Whoa, hey Forget what you settle for

You can't get no satisfaction If you never hold out for more Honey, I know it's hard But you gotta show him the door A better man's gonna come knocking With a whole lot of love in store And baby, baby, baby, you know You get what you settle for

Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh You get what you settle for, yeah Oh, oh, what you said, oh boy, yeah. Whoa, I get what you said, oh boy. Hey. I love it. Thank you. That was awesome.

Thank you so much. You're welcome. So cool. It's like my own little private concert. Woohoo! Sweet. Thank you. That was so wonderful.

Oh, thanks. So I want to come full circle with you. There's always the final question for everybody. Oh, gosh, the question. The question. And that is, we're hanging out here. You just rocked the house with an awesome song on the new album. And you're living a lot of really cool things. So when I offer out the term to live a good life, what comes up for you?

Well, given that I just played that song, not settling, which I don't really want to answer with a negative, but I guess the flip of that is to keep on keeping on, you know, until you're happy and helping others to be happy too. And that's being happy. It sounds so cliche, but I guess that is, you know, like not settling. Because I think people really know deep down when they are settling. Like there's a feeling it's like when you're writing a song and it's not finished, like the way you know, is there's like something that's not quite every time you get to that word, you kind of want to swallow it. Cause it's not that great. I think you, you feel like that inside if you're, if you're settling and to really strive to feel like you're going for everything.

I think that's a good life. And you may or may not always accomplish it, but as long as you're striving for it and you're not giving up, I think that's good. Thank you. Sure. Hey, thanks so much for listening. We love sharing real unscripted conversations and ideas that matter. And if you enjoy that too, and if you enjoy what we're up to, I'd be so grateful if you would take just a few seconds and rate and review the podcast. It really helps us get the word out. You can actually do that now right from the podcast app on your phone. If you have an iPhone, you just click on the reviews tab and take a few seconds and jam over there. And if you haven't yet subscribed while you're there, then make sure you hit the subscribe button while you're at it. And then you'll be sure to never miss out on any of our

incredible guests or conversations or riffs. And for those of you, our awesome community who are on other platforms, any love that you might be able to offer sharing our message would just be so appreciated. Until next time, this is Jonathan Fields signing off for good life project. Mayday, mayday. We've been compromised. The pilot's a hitman. I knew you were going to be fun.

On January 24th. Tell me how to fly this thing. Mark Wahlberg. You know what the difference between me and you is? You're going to die. Don't shoot him, we need him. Y'all need a pilot? Flight risk.

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